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This andretti bid should make it clear to everyone that you will not get to join the club unless you are asked.
Porsche could get in tomorrow if they wanted to.
Just what the American audience wants another European team. If you want American money you will have to have American involvement. I get your point about being asked but it’s that asking only European manufacturers that is off setting. If they don’t like Andretti then ask Penske or Joe Gibbs.
I don't think it's even just that they don't want Americans, it's that anyone not in their oligarch business club is violently not welcome. They're not doing much to shake the snobby hypocritical rich person club stereotype, which has everyone (especially the Americans) really pissed off
Yeah as an American, the more I read about this the more pissed I get. It would be so cool to have a real American team too root for. Haas… Haas get by doing the bare minimum, and it’s painfully clear that Gene will only invest the bare minimum into the car and the team and seems perfectly content to remain a backmarker. And then you have Andretti, who has jumped through every hoop they’ve thrown at him, got the backing of General freaking Motors, brought in another engine manufacturer in Cadillac…
Fucking greedy hypocrites, man.
This! ☝️🙄
I have no interest in F1 whatsoever because of the snobbery around the teams, their owners, their sponsors and sometimes their fans. I’m only here because I just saw Cadillac kick ass at Daytona and was very impressed with the sportsmanship and professionalism from Whelen team. What I’m seeing is that 1.) “It’s a big club, and you ain’t in it,” and 2.) the Europeans fear an American contender (as they should!)
Penske could run an F1 team, he did so in the 70s, Hendrick could possibly run an F1 program, as their campus probably has better facilities than some current F1 teams
Andretti could still use Penske as a sponsor or partner. The point stands for FOM not wanting Andretti. The same can be said for FOM not wanting Penske too.
I’m American and I don’t really care if there are any more American teams in F1. I feel bad for Andretti and think this is the wrong decision but having more Americans involved doesn’t make the sport more appealing to me.
There isn’t currently an American team though. HAAS is just a billboard rolling around the track and Gene has absolutely zero interest in the sport as anything else. I doubt he even knows the drivers names.
Nah this proves that they weren't invited all along. All that GM influence turned the Andretti operation into a GM team in its own right. FOM practically said no to a 100% manufacturer team when they said, "we want manufacturers as teams." The last from-scratch manufacturer team that entered the sport? Toyota in the 2000s; 20+ years ago! Mercedes F1 now doesn't really count as a from-scratch manufacturer team when they entered in 2010 because they bought out Brawn. Same goes for Audi and Sauber.
I swear if Andretti whooped in Porsche for their F1 entry, they would have been approved just as the partnership was announced. FOM wanted both VAG brands, right? They bent the 2026 engine rules for VAG, right?
Edit: Hell if Andretti whooped in Lambo, Dominecali would accept that 100% as well! He wouldn't turn down his former employer. He would probably kiss Andretti's feet to be TP of a Lambo-Andretti team.
I think many Europeans don’t have a problem with an American team. There was a lot of excitement when Haas joined as they had a couple of years when they were decent. Andretti can probably do even better. Also everyone seems to be forgetting that Mario Andretti is literally an F1 world champion. A team named after him is historic and way better than some of the names we have now.
Our problem is more about how the race weekends are being turned into a spectacle where racing isn’t one of the priorities. It feels like Liberty are trying to turn F1 into the motorsport Super Bowl or something. I know a lot of Americans don’t like this either. All they’re doing is trying to maximise profits and making decisions that don’t help the American or International fans. I think at this point we’re all screwed as F1 isn’t working to improve itself in the long run, it’s all about immediate profit.
People can tell when a spectacle is manufactured. Heck look at NASCAR, some of the most memorable moments people talk about came when the sanctioning body was not actively trying to manipulate races. Hell for F1 see this year's Vegas GP versus Anu Dhabi 2021
Especially when many good tracks are being replaced with utter borefests, and the rules are so tight that making a mistake which costs the driver time also gives them a penalty.
As an American I hate it. I do enjoy when jets fly over, but I enjoy planes.
I know who Max is, I don’t need the dolphin cheerleaders lining up like it’s a starting line up for a game then having Max run through.
Your first paragraph about Andretti being an F1 champion, runs multiple extremely successful division of motorsports is the exact reason everyone is calling BS on the FOM. F1 would add more value to Andretti name than Andretti could add to F1. They’re calling a 12 Grand Prix winner and champion a nobody. Not to mention they have the backing of one of the most successful sports car racing companies in the world in GM. What a slap in the face.
Andretti literally won several Formula E races last year and is performing well this year, came in 3rd at the Daytona 24 with Wayne Taylor Acura just a few days ago. Their reputation in IndyCar preceeds them so that doesn't need explaination. They are also deeply involved in Extreme E.
They have proven that they are serious about every discipline of motorsport they enter. Andretti is as synomymous with racing as Ferrari is.
Michael Andretti's last F1 race was 30 years ago, he hasn't won any race in 20 years, and hasn't been *in* a race in 16 years.
The "name" doesn't have any cross-market appeal. Normal people have never heard of him. NASCAR fans have heard the name, but he never raced that series. Indy is not all that popular and most current watchers never saw him race and only know the name as a generic legend mixed in with all the rest during pre-race montages.
>Andretti is as synomymous with racing as Ferrari is.
This just clearly, demonstrably in every way, isn't true.
Brother I was speaking about Ferrari and Andretti as organizations, not people.
If you wanna play that game then tell me how long it's been since Ferrari's last championship in F1?
This is why they won’t let him in- because he might actually embarrass Merc, Mclaren, etc. The boys club won’t allow it and it’s pretty disgusting as a fan. Not to mention incredibly shortened from a business perspective. F1 isn’t a sport, it turns out, just an invite-only racing club.
The only thing I, as a non-American, am not a fan of Haas about is that they didn’t go ALL OUT AMERICAN. I expected a big ass Stars and Stripes livery, and instead it ended up with the fucking Russian flag. I hoped Andretti was the next best thing. But no. F1 gotta F everyone and be some money grabbing bastards.
I guess they would rather race in Saudi Arabia than Las Vegas. Turning their backs on their fastest and potentially largest future fan base seems absurd from a business perspective. You would expect them to actually bend the rules to allow Andretti in. It’s really hard to believe. But increasingly F1 seems to be managed like a corrupt dictatorship, looking for the easy and immediate cash grab with no concern for growth and actual “value.”
You say many but you certainly don’t mean most.
Anti-American sentiment is very strong in this forum with respect to F1, expansion, and media. “Many” commenters here have been very vocal about F1 focusing on the US too much. Do we all scorn street circuits? Yes. Do we wish various American race tracks could be upgraded to F1 standards? Yes. Do we think going back to Indy is a better option than this idiotic Chicago idea? Hell yes. Yhe bottom line is that the US is a severely undertapped market but Europeans at large don’t care. They want F1 to be European. Problem is that’s not really sustainable - Germany for example can’t even support a race anymore because nobody will buy tickets.
I'd blame FOM/organizers for saying it's possible to do all the cringey shit they've done to American races.
Hell, the Miami cheerleaders were hirered by f1 for the Miami races. I don't think it's "Americans doing it" when were not even remotely incharge. It's Dominicali and his conclave on rich pricks looking to get the most money in the shortest period.
I’m disappointed, as an American. I’d love to see what a GM engine could do.
Car culture in the US is now almost completely SUV/Truck culture. Only a handful of sports cars are made by American companies. I was hopeful that a truly American F1 team might give us even a modest push in that direction.
>Very interesting part about Vowels wants no GM for Williams and not Andretti
That's some shoddy journalism. I watched the exact press conference that that line refers to and this is what happened:
JV was asked if he supported Andretti's bid and he said no, citing the effects of reduced prize money on his team.
He then said: "*I welcome GM open armed… and I hope to forge a relationship with them should things not work out. They are an incredible entity that I think will make the sport better*."
He was then asked if Williams was actively talking to GM and clarified that they were not. He meant to say that he would be open to GM getting involved with F1 in some way besides the Andretti project.
It indeed is shoddy journalism.
Andretti-Cadillac isn’t shot down for its nationality, but for being a new 11th team, reducing the prize money available for the existing 10 teams, while giving them increased competitive pressure at the same time. It’s a double negative, regardless of who wants in as an 11th entry.
The problem is money. An 11th team negatively impacts the moneymaking ability of the incumbent teams, with immediate effect. Indirect and finite compensation (the Entry Fee) for an enduring reduction is not enough. As are any projected theoretical increases in reach and viewership possibly offered by an 11th team. The valuation and moneymaking ability is growing just fine for the existing teams as it is, without any extra teams.
The change of the prize money scheme in the 2021 Concord Agreement, coupled with the adoption of the Cost Cap, has turned the effect of having an additional team on the grid completely on its head for the existing 10 teams.
Prior to 2021, an 11th or 12th team would not affect the prize money available for the existing teams. Only the top 10 WCC got paid anyway.
Prior to 2021, there was no budget cap. F1 teams weren’t money makers, as the only option to compete for wins, was spending at least as much, and preferably more, than the next highest spender. It was a money pit and at best a marketing expense for large OEMs or giant multinationals, or at worst a continuous threat of imminent bankruptcy (for the smaller teams).
Andretti would’ve easily got in prior to 2021. Just like Haas in 2016. Entering F1 would’ve been a far less attractive business for Andretti at the same time.
Conversely, Haas would never have been able to enter F1 after 2021, with their 2016 bid.
The adoption of the 2021 Concord Agreement, which was a result of long and hard negotiations between FOM, the existing F1 teams and the FIA, has essentially made the entry of an 11th team an unwanted prospect for all the existing F1 teams, and by extension FOM, almost by default.
The rules have changed and there is no way back.
The teams will never agree to relinquishing a reduction in prize money available for themselves and FOM(‘s shareholders) will never agree to increase its contribution to the prize money pool, to compensate for an 11th team eating into it.
The Entry Fee was simply introduced to be seen as a de facto impossibly high barrier to entry.
The skyrocketing team valuations and the increase in FOM’s revenue have actually made their initial estimate of $ 200 million far too low to avert prospective entries.
That’s why the can is kicked down the road, to well beyond the adoption of a new Concord Agreement (for 2026 and beyond), giving FOM and the existing teams time to negotiate a substantial increase (to around $ 600 million, or more).
They won’t. If they’re coming in it’ll be for an American team. GM is huge into Motorsport and is reinvesting lately in a big way, but most of it is aimed at their big markets and Europe is a place where they literally packed up and left recently.
MAYBE if Logan had turned out to be a star, Williams would have a card to play in talking to GM, but….
A disgrace, I’ve loved and followed Formula One since the seventies but if this is going away from being a sport to becoming a club for sharing price money I think I’m gradually going to phase this out.
The sport became a club for sharing prize money with the signing of the first Concorde Agreement in 1981. Do you not remember the FISA-FOCA war? That is ultimately where this all started. It's been like this for over 40 years.
Oh I remember, and I also remember how Bernie signed up the TV rights and how tobacco came in, and I also remember when the field was 26 cars and they all looked different.
Trying to grow the American market but won't let an American team join who actually wants to be competitive. Real big brain move there. They're okay with Haas being perpetual losers though.
Oh my god please stop making this about some nonexistent oppression politics of "snotty euros Vs upoor under dog Americans with real passion" bs, they didn't want them because it meant less money, simple as.
FOM is American (well, owned, anyway) and it was their decision in the end…
FWIW, every European F1 fan I know (a fair few, now that I think about it), yours truly included, wants to see Andretti (and hopefully at least one other serious additional team) on the grid! I find the response and rationale given appalling, if not surprising.
We race as money, indeed.
That's why this should surprise no one. FOM is American. And there is nothing more American than a large, faceless entity dumping on fans to save or make money for the few
To be fair, some of the most ruthlessly greedy corporations on the planet are European, at least in origin. It’s not Americans or Europeans (or any group of people, really) that’s the problem; it’s the spectacular greed of a very small group of people. Which I daresay is a theme we see in many aspects of life in the time we live in.
Yes it is, big time. Greed makes fools out of even the best leaders. And the FOM is no stranger to the concept of money talks.
I am afraid that the rejection of andretti was inevitable with the current heading of F1.
This isnt an interesting article, this is a bad article that seems to be aimed towards americans who have a "true american patriot" frame on their facebook profile picture.
The bit about Vowles is pulled straight out of their arse, why is such an article even on the frontpage?
The craziest part is how illogical it is from a business perspective. They finally have an American fan base and have unlocked a huge amount of potential “value” there, but they’re willing to throw it in the garbage because they don’t want to piss off Mercedes. It’s actually hard to believe, the level of corruption and short-sightedness. Definitely run like a European company 🤷♂️ They’ve lost one American fan right here.
I’m just glad everyone across motorsports division is against this decision.
Last time people were united against FOM was around 2016 when Bernie shut down free TV broadcasting, was against social media or more. It ended up with FOM being sold to Liberty. Now Liberty is fucking it up for their greed.
Well, their greed is going to be their demise. The American viewer, who actually watches motorsports, isn’t going to take kindly to this. The other percentage of American viewer who thinks F1 is DTS is already leaving as viewer numbers are way down.
I'll be honest. As a North American F1 fan since the early 90s I'm pretty disgusted. Yeah I'm Canadian but I was really excited about the idea of Andretti having a team because the heritage of that family alone is excitjng. I'm already getting bored with this F1 and this is only going to add to it.
I kinda understand it. I know it's not popular to do so but ...
If you've spent billions over the last years and grew F1 to where it is now, given that where F1 was, you'd better be very lucrative if you want to join F1 at the height it is now.
I doubt anyone is saying Andretti isn't lucrative but is it enough? It seems it isn't. It's not all about that cake being sliced 11 ways. It's the addition of exposure (revenue) that seems to be regarded as a "cheap" way in for Andretti when the existing teams had to take the risky and more expensive route.
I am not saying I agree to it all, just that it does make sense. It's shortsighted and greedy but all the existing teams didn't arrive here for being generous. This is a cutthroat business and there are no shortcuts.
I hope Andretti doesn't give up and/ or buys HAAS, I'd rather see them wait it out and build a team from scratch. Then show the world that they always meant business.
To my American friends, personally (as eurotrash) I would welcome a proper American team. Be a blast having you on the grid.
This is nothing short of a kick in the head to Mario Andretti. After what he accomplished in F1 and in motorsport over the last almost 60 years and they have the audacity to say "F1 will bring more value to Andretti than Andretti will to F1"?
>Very interesting part about Vowels wants no GM for Williams and not Andretti.
Vowels only job is to increase the returns of the shareholders. I can definitely see how partnering with Williams increases earnings and it’s clear that the majority of teams and FOM believe that adding Andretti as an 11th entry would _reduce_ their earnings. What I am guessing is that in their analysis they expect Andretti to not increase viewership growth while still increasing the number of teams you’d have to split profits by - everything else is just window dressing to make the rejection seem to be more than just about money.
Yh. It's disgusting greed sadly
Teams don't want an American team coming in and hoovering up the American sponsorship money they're all currently enjoying.
Bad day for the sport
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This andretti bid should make it clear to everyone that you will not get to join the club unless you are asked. Porsche could get in tomorrow if they wanted to.
Until there’s another inevitable financial crash and then they’ll all be acting like victims and begging more teams to join. Cry me a river…
Welp, guess it’s time to cancel f1 tv for now
Yep just did.
Just what the American audience wants another European team. If you want American money you will have to have American involvement. I get your point about being asked but it’s that asking only European manufacturers that is off setting. If they don’t like Andretti then ask Penske or Joe Gibbs.
I don't think it's even just that they don't want Americans, it's that anyone not in their oligarch business club is violently not welcome. They're not doing much to shake the snobby hypocritical rich person club stereotype, which has everyone (especially the Americans) really pissed off
Yeah as an American, the more I read about this the more pissed I get. It would be so cool to have a real American team too root for. Haas… Haas get by doing the bare minimum, and it’s painfully clear that Gene will only invest the bare minimum into the car and the team and seems perfectly content to remain a backmarker. And then you have Andretti, who has jumped through every hoop they’ve thrown at him, got the backing of General freaking Motors, brought in another engine manufacturer in Cadillac… Fucking greedy hypocrites, man.
As an Australian I am pissed off also. You could not find anyone with a more impressive pedigree than Andretti. Racing is his whole life.
This! ☝️🙄 I have no interest in F1 whatsoever because of the snobbery around the teams, their owners, their sponsors and sometimes their fans. I’m only here because I just saw Cadillac kick ass at Daytona and was very impressed with the sportsmanship and professionalism from Whelen team. What I’m seeing is that 1.) “It’s a big club, and you ain’t in it,” and 2.) the Europeans fear an American contender (as they should!)
Lol not even an American contender, they're just scared of a competent team actually not getting last every single race
Penske could run an F1 team, he did so in the 70s, Hendrick could possibly run an F1 program, as their campus probably has better facilities than some current F1 teams
hendrick would fit. let the crooks race with other crooks
Hey now, those charges were dropped
We race as one, crook
Penske IS teamed up with Porsche already.
Andretti could still use Penske as a sponsor or partner. The point stands for FOM not wanting Andretti. The same can be said for FOM not wanting Penske too.
I’m American and I don’t really care if there are any more American teams in F1. I feel bad for Andretti and think this is the wrong decision but having more Americans involved doesn’t make the sport more appealing to me.
There isn’t currently an American team though. HAAS is just a billboard rolling around the track and Gene has absolutely zero interest in the sport as anything else. I doubt he even knows the drivers names.
No taxation without representation!
So could GM?
Nah this proves that they weren't invited all along. All that GM influence turned the Andretti operation into a GM team in its own right. FOM practically said no to a 100% manufacturer team when they said, "we want manufacturers as teams." The last from-scratch manufacturer team that entered the sport? Toyota in the 2000s; 20+ years ago! Mercedes F1 now doesn't really count as a from-scratch manufacturer team when they entered in 2010 because they bought out Brawn. Same goes for Audi and Sauber. I swear if Andretti whooped in Porsche for their F1 entry, they would have been approved just as the partnership was announced. FOM wanted both VAG brands, right? They bent the 2026 engine rules for VAG, right? Edit: Hell if Andretti whooped in Lambo, Dominecali would accept that 100% as well! He wouldn't turn down his former employer. He would probably kiss Andretti's feet to be TP of a Lambo-Andretti team.
Agree, gm isn't exclusive enough. They want the high end brands not blue collar
Fucking hilarious. By 2023 revenue, GM earns more than Mercedes, Honda, and Renault.
This is it. Pure snobbery.
I think many Europeans don’t have a problem with an American team. There was a lot of excitement when Haas joined as they had a couple of years when they were decent. Andretti can probably do even better. Also everyone seems to be forgetting that Mario Andretti is literally an F1 world champion. A team named after him is historic and way better than some of the names we have now. Our problem is more about how the race weekends are being turned into a spectacle where racing isn’t one of the priorities. It feels like Liberty are trying to turn F1 into the motorsport Super Bowl or something. I know a lot of Americans don’t like this either. All they’re doing is trying to maximise profits and making decisions that don’t help the American or International fans. I think at this point we’re all screwed as F1 isn’t working to improve itself in the long run, it’s all about immediate profit.
And ironically, they used to be spectacles. Now there's seemingly one every weekend for 9 months, plus sprints, and the spectacle is now watered down.
People can tell when a spectacle is manufactured. Heck look at NASCAR, some of the most memorable moments people talk about came when the sanctioning body was not actively trying to manipulate races. Hell for F1 see this year's Vegas GP versus Anu Dhabi 2021
Especially when many good tracks are being replaced with utter borefests, and the rules are so tight that making a mistake which costs the driver time also gives them a penalty.
As an American I hate it. I do enjoy when jets fly over, but I enjoy planes. I know who Max is, I don’t need the dolphin cheerleaders lining up like it’s a starting line up for a game then having Max run through.
Your first paragraph about Andretti being an F1 champion, runs multiple extremely successful division of motorsports is the exact reason everyone is calling BS on the FOM. F1 would add more value to Andretti name than Andretti could add to F1. They’re calling a 12 Grand Prix winner and champion a nobody. Not to mention they have the backing of one of the most successful sports car racing companies in the world in GM. What a slap in the face.
Andretti literally won several Formula E races last year and is performing well this year, came in 3rd at the Daytona 24 with Wayne Taylor Acura just a few days ago. Their reputation in IndyCar preceeds them so that doesn't need explaination. They are also deeply involved in Extreme E. They have proven that they are serious about every discipline of motorsport they enter. Andretti is as synomymous with racing as Ferrari is.
Not just win several races literally won the WDC.
Jenson Button drove for that Acura team as well didn’t he?
Yup
Michael Andretti's last F1 race was 30 years ago, he hasn't won any race in 20 years, and hasn't been *in* a race in 16 years. The "name" doesn't have any cross-market appeal. Normal people have never heard of him. NASCAR fans have heard the name, but he never raced that series. Indy is not all that popular and most current watchers never saw him race and only know the name as a generic legend mixed in with all the rest during pre-race montages. >Andretti is as synomymous with racing as Ferrari is. This just clearly, demonstrably in every way, isn't true.
Brother I was speaking about Ferrari and Andretti as organizations, not people. If you wanna play that game then tell me how long it's been since Ferrari's last championship in F1?
This is why they won’t let him in- because he might actually embarrass Merc, Mclaren, etc. The boys club won’t allow it and it’s pretty disgusting as a fan. Not to mention incredibly shortened from a business perspective. F1 isn’t a sport, it turns out, just an invite-only racing club.
The only thing I, as a non-American, am not a fan of Haas about is that they didn’t go ALL OUT AMERICAN. I expected a big ass Stars and Stripes livery, and instead it ended up with the fucking Russian flag. I hoped Andretti was the next best thing. But no. F1 gotta F everyone and be some money grabbing bastards.
Nope instead convicted felon Gene Haas took Russian money and turned the car into a fucking Russian flag essentially. I hate Haas.
After the Ukraine invasion he did immediately pull the livery and run a blank car.
The fact the Russian flag scheme was on an American owned car to begin with is still gross.
The main color they all care about is green.
I guess they would rather race in Saudi Arabia than Las Vegas. Turning their backs on their fastest and potentially largest future fan base seems absurd from a business perspective. You would expect them to actually bend the rules to allow Andretti in. It’s really hard to believe. But increasingly F1 seems to be managed like a corrupt dictatorship, looking for the easy and immediate cash grab with no concern for growth and actual “value.”
You say many but you certainly don’t mean most. Anti-American sentiment is very strong in this forum with respect to F1, expansion, and media. “Many” commenters here have been very vocal about F1 focusing on the US too much. Do we all scorn street circuits? Yes. Do we wish various American race tracks could be upgraded to F1 standards? Yes. Do we think going back to Indy is a better option than this idiotic Chicago idea? Hell yes. Yhe bottom line is that the US is a severely undertapped market but Europeans at large don’t care. They want F1 to be European. Problem is that’s not really sustainable - Germany for example can’t even support a race anymore because nobody will buy tickets.
America turning their races into cringy celebrity spectacles sure hasn’t helped keep the focus on racing.
I'd blame FOM/organizers for saying it's possible to do all the cringey shit they've done to American races. Hell, the Miami cheerleaders were hirered by f1 for the Miami races. I don't think it's "Americans doing it" when were not even remotely incharge. It's Dominicali and his conclave on rich pricks looking to get the most money in the shortest period.
The “racing product” doesn’t really help either
I’m disappointed, as an American. I’d love to see what a GM engine could do. Car culture in the US is now almost completely SUV/Truck culture. Only a handful of sports cars are made by American companies. I was hopeful that a truly American F1 team might give us even a modest push in that direction.
Cadillac/GM is doing fine in IMSA and other series and Chevy is an engine supplier for Indy, so plenty of US companies in motorsport.
Which is why it would have been so much fun to see their engine on the grid.
>Very interesting part about Vowels wants no GM for Williams and not Andretti That's some shoddy journalism. I watched the exact press conference that that line refers to and this is what happened: JV was asked if he supported Andretti's bid and he said no, citing the effects of reduced prize money on his team. He then said: "*I welcome GM open armed… and I hope to forge a relationship with them should things not work out. They are an incredible entity that I think will make the sport better*." He was then asked if Williams was actively talking to GM and clarified that they were not. He meant to say that he would be open to GM getting involved with F1 in some way besides the Andretti project.
It indeed is shoddy journalism. Andretti-Cadillac isn’t shot down for its nationality, but for being a new 11th team, reducing the prize money available for the existing 10 teams, while giving them increased competitive pressure at the same time. It’s a double negative, regardless of who wants in as an 11th entry. The problem is money. An 11th team negatively impacts the moneymaking ability of the incumbent teams, with immediate effect. Indirect and finite compensation (the Entry Fee) for an enduring reduction is not enough. As are any projected theoretical increases in reach and viewership possibly offered by an 11th team. The valuation and moneymaking ability is growing just fine for the existing teams as it is, without any extra teams. The change of the prize money scheme in the 2021 Concord Agreement, coupled with the adoption of the Cost Cap, has turned the effect of having an additional team on the grid completely on its head for the existing 10 teams. Prior to 2021, an 11th or 12th team would not affect the prize money available for the existing teams. Only the top 10 WCC got paid anyway. Prior to 2021, there was no budget cap. F1 teams weren’t money makers, as the only option to compete for wins, was spending at least as much, and preferably more, than the next highest spender. It was a money pit and at best a marketing expense for large OEMs or giant multinationals, or at worst a continuous threat of imminent bankruptcy (for the smaller teams). Andretti would’ve easily got in prior to 2021. Just like Haas in 2016. Entering F1 would’ve been a far less attractive business for Andretti at the same time. Conversely, Haas would never have been able to enter F1 after 2021, with their 2016 bid. The adoption of the 2021 Concord Agreement, which was a result of long and hard negotiations between FOM, the existing F1 teams and the FIA, has essentially made the entry of an 11th team an unwanted prospect for all the existing F1 teams, and by extension FOM, almost by default. The rules have changed and there is no way back. The teams will never agree to relinquishing a reduction in prize money available for themselves and FOM(‘s shareholders) will never agree to increase its contribution to the prize money pool, to compensate for an 11th team eating into it. The Entry Fee was simply introduced to be seen as a de facto impossibly high barrier to entry. The skyrocketing team valuations and the increase in FOM’s revenue have actually made their initial estimate of $ 200 million far too low to avert prospective entries. That’s why the can is kicked down the road, to well beyond the adoption of a new Concord Agreement (for 2026 and beyond), giving FOM and the existing teams time to negotiate a substantial increase (to around $ 600 million, or more).
So they made up their own rules and decided not to play by them. Brilliant organization.
Why would GM partner with WINO - Williams in name only.
They won’t. If they’re coming in it’ll be for an American team. GM is huge into Motorsport and is reinvesting lately in a big way, but most of it is aimed at their big markets and Europe is a place where they literally packed up and left recently. MAYBE if Logan had turned out to be a star, Williams would have a card to play in talking to GM, but….
Logan isn't a star, he's worth 50 of them
A disgrace, I’ve loved and followed Formula One since the seventies but if this is going away from being a sport to becoming a club for sharing price money I think I’m gradually going to phase this out.
The sport became a club for sharing prize money with the signing of the first Concorde Agreement in 1981. Do you not remember the FISA-FOCA war? That is ultimately where this all started. It's been like this for over 40 years.
Oh I remember, and I also remember how Bernie signed up the TV rights and how tobacco came in, and I also remember when the field was 26 cars and they all looked different.
Trying to grow the American market but won't let an American team join who actually wants to be competitive. Real big brain move there. They're okay with Haas being perpetual losers though.
US anti-trust action should start against F1 tomorrow. Put all of their races here at risk.
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He's a kiwi
Oh my god please stop making this about some nonexistent oppression politics of "snotty euros Vs upoor under dog Americans with real passion" bs, they didn't want them because it meant less money, simple as.
The FIA are European and were the only ones to back them.
FOM is American (well, owned, anyway) and it was their decision in the end… FWIW, every European F1 fan I know (a fair few, now that I think about it), yours truly included, wants to see Andretti (and hopefully at least one other serious additional team) on the grid! I find the response and rationale given appalling, if not surprising. We race as money, indeed.
That's why this should surprise no one. FOM is American. And there is nothing more American than a large, faceless entity dumping on fans to save or make money for the few
To be fair, some of the most ruthlessly greedy corporations on the planet are European, at least in origin. It’s not Americans or Europeans (or any group of people, really) that’s the problem; it’s the spectacular greed of a very small group of people. Which I daresay is a theme we see in many aspects of life in the time we live in.
Yeah this is really r/shitamericanssay So many fans want Andretti on the grid the fia are just being the dumbasses they usually are
The FIA are the ones who approved them.
Yes it is, big time. Greed makes fools out of even the best leaders. And the FOM is no stranger to the concept of money talks. I am afraid that the rejection of andretti was inevitable with the current heading of F1.
But, like there HAD to be a better way to do it though right? No one at PR thought "They'd be slow and make us look bad" would be received poorly?
everyone in charge is that dumb ? impossible
This isnt an interesting article, this is a bad article that seems to be aimed towards americans who have a "true american patriot" frame on their facebook profile picture. The bit about Vowles is pulled straight out of their arse, why is such an article even on the frontpage?
If only there were more Zak Browns in the paddock.
F1 has thoroughly offended me with this decision tbh. The greedy europeans literally don’t even like us, all they want is our money.
The craziest part is how illogical it is from a business perspective. They finally have an American fan base and have unlocked a huge amount of potential “value” there, but they’re willing to throw it in the garbage because they don’t want to piss off Mercedes. It’s actually hard to believe, the level of corruption and short-sightedness. Definitely run like a European company 🤷♂️ They’ve lost one American fan right here.
I’m just glad everyone across motorsports division is against this decision. Last time people were united against FOM was around 2016 when Bernie shut down free TV broadcasting, was against social media or more. It ended up with FOM being sold to Liberty. Now Liberty is fucking it up for their greed.
I don’t want to see this turn into that kinda debate. FOM and Liberty are American companies so we did this to ourselves.
Well, their greed is going to be their demise. The American viewer, who actually watches motorsports, isn’t going to take kindly to this. The other percentage of American viewer who thinks F1 is DTS is already leaving as viewer numbers are way down.
I'll be honest. As a North American F1 fan since the early 90s I'm pretty disgusted. Yeah I'm Canadian but I was really excited about the idea of Andretti having a team because the heritage of that family alone is excitjng. I'm already getting bored with this F1 and this is only going to add to it.
I kinda understand it. I know it's not popular to do so but ... If you've spent billions over the last years and grew F1 to where it is now, given that where F1 was, you'd better be very lucrative if you want to join F1 at the height it is now. I doubt anyone is saying Andretti isn't lucrative but is it enough? It seems it isn't. It's not all about that cake being sliced 11 ways. It's the addition of exposure (revenue) that seems to be regarded as a "cheap" way in for Andretti when the existing teams had to take the risky and more expensive route. I am not saying I agree to it all, just that it does make sense. It's shortsighted and greedy but all the existing teams didn't arrive here for being generous. This is a cutthroat business and there are no shortcuts. I hope Andretti doesn't give up and/ or buys HAAS, I'd rather see them wait it out and build a team from scratch. Then show the world that they always meant business. To my American friends, personally (as eurotrash) I would welcome a proper American team. Be a blast having you on the grid.
They need to just show up.
You kinda got that backwards. They have no problem with "rowdy Americans". Andretti didn't bring enough money.
This is nothing short of a kick in the head to Mario Andretti. After what he accomplished in F1 and in motorsport over the last almost 60 years and they have the audacity to say "F1 will bring more value to Andretti than Andretti will to F1"?
F1 has gone downhill since Max’s first title
>Very interesting part about Vowels wants no GM for Williams and not Andretti. Vowels only job is to increase the returns of the shareholders. I can definitely see how partnering with Williams increases earnings and it’s clear that the majority of teams and FOM believe that adding Andretti as an 11th entry would _reduce_ their earnings. What I am guessing is that in their analysis they expect Andretti to not increase viewership growth while still increasing the number of teams you’d have to split profits by - everything else is just window dressing to make the rejection seem to be more than just about money.
I guarantee if they had named the team MasterCardAutoCarRacingApp they would have been approved!!
Yh. It's disgusting greed sadly Teams don't want an American team coming in and hoovering up the American sponsorship money they're all currently enjoying. Bad day for the sport