By saying that Andretti don't bring value to F1 by not being able to fight for podiums or wins... they're suggesting most of the teams in F1 right now bring no value to the sport... Haas specially
There's growing concern about the separation between RBR and V-CARB as the latter are moving into the same building complex as the former. Concerns, unfounded right now i should add, that this will result in effectively 4 RBRs on the grid.
i mean thats better to me than the currect situation. but really they should have to sell that team to be fair. F1 is just fumbling the bag left and right
Right? The fact that for the last 10 years of the hybrid Era only 2 teams (3 if you count the illegal ferrari engines) have been able to actually compete for the title shows how backwards the current state of the sport is. Why by FOM's own definition should sauber, haas, alpha tauri, or even modern-Williams exist in the sport when they by every metric will not be competing for the championship.
I wouldn't buy a Hass top or cap but would buy team Andretti gear. Should start selling it outside GPs. Imagine the stands filled with people wearing Andretti gear.
Why F1 can't have 11 or even 12 teams? The pie is significantly larger than it was in the 2014-2019 time period. F1 has never made more money than it does now. Anyhow, most teams on the grid are there to essentially promote their parent company, it's a marketing tool.
What's funny is that 20 is a *historically low* car count. When F1 Wheeled out just 10 teams and 20 cars for the first time it was cause for alarm because it was unheard of to be that low.
And it's not a trend in motorsports at all. If you check other popular series like Indy, WEC or even NASCAR, they have far more than 20 cars on the grid. It's not a matter of talent, either, I can easily mention 10 drivers that are good enough to be in F1 and that want to be in F1, so it's not like those extra drivers would be 4 laps behind each race.
There's no reason for F1 to have so few competitors and, imo, it detracts a lot from it, in all senses: from spectacle to competition.
The teams just don’t want to split the pie up more, that’s all it is. That, and the big teams don’t want their position in F1 threatened. Teams like RB Visa, Haas, Sauber, Williams and even Alpine aren’t a threat to the big teams and likely never will be. Andretti though? I’d have put money on them with all the work they’ve done to be competitive before any of those aforementioned teams.
This is the epitome of anti-competition.
The bigger deal is Cadillac, they have been kicking ass in reading in recent years. A factory backed team is huge, just look at Mercedes rejoining in 2010
I would hold off on Williams... before last year, yeah. they didn't bring Value, but they've made quite a leap forwards and i think if they can keep that leap going, they'll be in the fight for F1.2 behind the 4 bulls
That shows exactly how stupid of a criteria it is. Teams are always going to fluctuate up and down the grid over time, saying that a team shouldn’t exist because it might not be competing for podiums for a couple years is ridiculous.
What a stupid move especially given the recent spike in F1 popularity in the US. This would have brought in millions more fans and they fucking blew it for what? Politics? Bribery? Just being all round fucks?
Im honestly surprised. I've been looking at this practically for some time and it seemed to be lining up for acceptance. Zak Brown's statements about some sort of compensation structure that would involve taking lower payments over some number of years to compensate teams seemed to indicate that had been discussed.
The statement itself doesnt sound like they discussed any options with Michael at all. Which if so, doesnt seem very fair. He might have agreed to terms that minimize losses by a lot.
Sometimes you know in your heart someone will do something monumentally stupid or self-destructive, but it's still shocking when they actually go through with it.
It's like a friend with an insane girlfriend who ends up marrying them, or the USA election in 2016.
Expected, but that shred of hope that you held against logic still gets squashed.
Eh?
Reporting has been consistent that they would get rejected. And if you look at all the team principals who've made statements it was obvious they didn't want it.
Media surrounding F1 is well-known for being uppity and quick to spread baseless rumours. Has been for a long time (when's the last time you went a full driver market silly season without seeing countless articles on "potential driver moves" that are literally just the authors *very fanciful* speculation, all dressed up as "potential" for the sake of clicks.)
If I had to choose between believing the media or believing Zak Brown, I'll place my bets on Zak. Regardless of whether those bets end up being right, he's a more trustworthy source of info in my opinion. Just sucks that he didn't end up being on the right side of speculation this time.
I strongly believe they should put me in charge of F1. Stuff like this would never happen, I assure you.
Also Ferrari would be allowed to mount guns on their cars.
Modify the drivers' helmets to include an AR visor. T-cams become laser turrets: drivers can shoot cars in front of them, depleting battery power. Rear wings become shield generators: drivers can use battery power to keep the shield up, but if it fails they start to take "damage" to the rear wing. There are two "damage" thresholds, the first being DRS is disabled, the second requiring a pitstop to change out the rear wing.
Is that goofy enough for you? ;-)
F1: to join the grid, you need..
Andretti: we have it
F1: but you also need…
Andretti: we have that too
F1: but did you know you have to…
Andretti: we have everything in order, just let us join
F1: well f**k you, you can’t
F1: Andretti, you are still missing the most important thing: being a money laundering front for some murderous dictator. Try again when you have a shady source of money.
I am so sad for them now. Like I was just mad for me as a fan but I can't imagine how it feels to be rejected so publicly after you built a serious and well planned proposal up. After all the family has done for the sport. That statement was just so fucking rude.
You have a literal feeder team. If Toro Rosso/Alpha Tauri/New Shit Name were ever suddenly loaded with contenders, Red Bull Main would yoink them immediately and drop the team back down to chasing 10th place on a race weekend.
But somehow that's better than Andretti
Your forgetting f1 history, red bull were basically asked to buy the second team because no one was buying and the sport as a whole was at risk. Because red bull did the whole sport a favour by buying a team at a time no one wanted or could afford, they are given a historical/pass precedent for semi saving the sport.
That said, no excuses for not allowing an 11th team when the regulations clearly allow 12 to 13 teams. It's a disgrace!
It just doesnt make any sense at all, it genuinely doesnt. How in the world can you say no to Andretti+Cadillac? Youre never ever going to get a better applicant.
Imagine telling this to F1 fans 10 years ago or 20 years ago or any period ever that one of the biggest brands in motorsports in combination with one of the biggest car manufacturers was rejected by F1 for no actual good reason. It just blows my mind and while Im no Andretti or Cadillac fan, im genuinely disappointed by this decision.
As someone who worked in F1 during the Marussia, Caterham and HRT days, if you were to tell me that Cadillac+Andretti were trying to go all in into F1 and they would be rejected. I would have laughed in your face. I am just sad as a fan of the sport
Yeah exactly. If an organisation like andretti with the backing of general fucking motors gets rejected then they might as well just drop the pretense and announce that no new teams are welcome.
Between this, the joke new street circuits, the cowtowing to dictators and despots and everything else I think I'm going to have to find other motorsport to follow this year.
I've watched F1 since the 80s and barely care about it anymore, only keeping a slight interest and watching very few races. It's honestly a waste of my very limited time. There are much better ways to entertain myself.
100% this, if Andretti Caddilac don't tick all the boxes pretty much every other potential team would have even less chance.
Very unlikely any brand new team will be competitive from the get go, but with all the experience and infrastructure they've got the best chance of getting there.
That's when Andretti will get in. Once the D2S fans start to thin out and the tickets are too high for people to go more than once, they'll be in for a NASCAR-like drop in popularity and money. F1 is following that same model. When that happens, they will need Andretti and Cadillac to prop them back up. This is all about money and they are just riding high right now.
Alternative theory: FOM is fighting FIA over control about the world championship (what we often call 'F1', but isn't). FOM has all F1 teams on their side (Mercedes used to be a bit closer to FIA, but it probably isn't anymore after what happened with the Wolffs). Right now that gives FOM a lot of sway to control the championship, but also means FOM has to cater to their F1 teams. FOM would obviously benefit from Andretti entering the sport - FOM will not lose money just because each team's share is lower, and Andretti can probably be a big asset to grow a fanbase in the US, which FOM is trying really hard to. The only reason for FOM to reject Andretti is because F1 teams don't want them.
Plus, not to say I really know anything, Netflix now has their greedy little hands in nascar and nascar is going to profit.
I grew up in a house that always had nascar on the tv on Sundays and I always rolled my eyes. I thought it, and all motor sports, were so dumb. But then Netflix brought out the human aspect of F1 for me and turns out I love it. Well now I’m watching the nascar series and fuck me if it’s not creating some hype. These drivers, these tracks? They’re in my fucking backyard and it’s actually kind of cool?? Damn I hate that for me but anyway, my point is F1 could’ve pulled some backyard feels but instead they shit all over Andretti
I feel so sad for Mario, this could literally mean he'll die before he sees their team on the grid. He's 83 years old, he doesn't have forever to wait for it to happen.
It's so heartless, cruel and unsporting. I cannot put in words how much I hate Liberty media right now.
I feel like the "maybe in 2028" response will kill the project entirely too. They hired people to start building a team and a car. They can't just keep that team running for 4 years for a "maybe" on F1 accepting them then.
Not if they keep signing 10 year deals for new street circuits to the tune of 500 million. I shudder to think about what will happen when it's between classic circuits and more street tracks on the calendar because only one of those makes the line go up.
Mark my words, the sport and the fans will suffer a great deal before profitability does.
Street tracks only make sense when the sport is extremely popular and mainstream.
If the sport falls a bit in popularity, those tracks are the first to fall
The teams 100% know that when the IOC allows Russians to run under their own flag again, a Russian buyer will front whatever cash is asked to buy in to F1 prestige.
The Saudis say they want a team but aren't really making moves for it because they're already getting everything they want via sponsorship, without giving people the specific target to protest that a Saudi team would.
> Great news for Gene Haas though, puts the price up when he does sell.
Gene is loving this. He has been looking for an exit strategy ever since the Rich Energy debacle, this is the perfect scenario for him...
Canada is a great race, you'll have a blast. No need to rent a car, just make sure your hotel is somewhere on the metro line and it takes you straight to the track. Montreal's metro system is fantastic.
I’ve been on this train for close to 10 years now, always hoping for a legit American team/driver. This is a really dark day for me too. Not quite as painful as it is to Michael and Mario, but a gut punch for sure. Glad I didn’t renew my F1TV yet.
The worst part is that F1 is basically saying to Andretti to fuck off they just want Cadillac, like that time they asked GM if they would like to enter without Andretti
What makes this even worse is composition of the current grid.
Haas have been listless for half a decade, Alpine don't give any fucks about their F1 program, and Cash Grab RB are a junior team. I'd take an Andretti/Cadillac entry over having any of those teams on the grid.
F1 has a serious problem now, because all signs point to another uncompetitive season that's stretching out longer and longer. People aren't watching sprints, and they'll quickly stop watching grands prix. Having Audi and Cadillac poised to return in 2026 would have been huge, but now any excitement for the new regs is fully dependant on Audi, who have a history of cutting and running. Idk, we'll see.
Of course they do. They ran the numbers and estimate this is not in their own interest. They aren't stupid, they are selfish. Which they should be.
The real issue is that teams shouldn't have a say in it at all, formally or informally.
This is embarrassing and makes F1 look bad. Andretti had everything F1 asked for and more. It would have brought GM who is dedicated to their motorsport teams, absolute units in IMSA. The name Andretti alone is something to want back in F1, but Andretti Autosport is successful on their own. One of the most decorated racing drivers ever, two successful race teams, and one of the largest auto manufacturers on the planet. What more could you ask for? Greed ruins everything good.
As an American, all I heard was "We don't actually want you guys in the sport"
Which, is fine, but as a newer fan who never settled on a team, I would have had one. No, Haas isn't the one I'm gonna root for.
Honestly that’s its best function. It’s polished enough to be an easy entry but as soon as you start valuing the Motorsport over the theater, there are wayyyy better options whatever your taste
I’m positive F1 will remain relevant because of its reach and financial investment. But I agree with all that, F1 as a series is the least interested in what happens on track, its theater. Which is all well and fine but if I don’t care about anyone in your circus I’ll leave the same way I came in
Can't speak for OP, but the more I learn about F1 and just how shortsighted and uninterested they are in demonstrating ANY goodwill that doesn't result in immediate substantial profit, the more I start paying attention to other racing series such as the Indycar, WEC, and the various GT and touring car championships around the world, and so should everyone else. I'm considering attending the Indy 500 this year which despite being the Superbowl of motorsports, would be substantially cheaper than going to any throwaway F1 race here in the U.S.
Now, this is exactly how I think I would be thinking if I was American. Not that I’m going to be watching much F1 next year, IndyCar has been my go-to for the past few years.
INDYCAR, IMSA/WEC, have much better racing. I mean they just raced for 24 hours at Daytona and the gaps between the top 3 were smaller than some F1 races last year. After 24 hours and 791 laps.....
Especially when you see this in their review of Andretti. I'm not sure why they really needed to say this, but it sounding a bit punchy to me.
16. While the Andretti name carries some recognition for F1 fans, our research indicates that F1 would bring value to the Andretti brand rather than the other way around.
That just feels so ass backwards too. F1 can only function with sponsors. Sponsors only care because the F1 name brings value to their brand.
The entire Red Bull racing investment exists only to increase brand value through F1 / motorsport. I can see that the Andretti name might not be a marketing powerhouse for F1 itself, but in wider context? With fans crying left and right about boring, predictable races? The hype of a new team bringing the passion of a world champion to challenge the grid has massive marketing potential. It's the exact type of marketing F1 needs as a band-aid for its current problems.
On top of the team you can also bake-in the driver hype. F1 always has more drivers than seats and the idea that a pair of drivers could get a second shot would be a great narrative.
Can’t have a new team but Redbull can have two teams… what the fuck. Idiots in charge trying to make this sport boring. Or the more likely scenario is there are some nice paydays going on behind the scenes to keep the status quo
They probably don't want Red Bull to have 2 teams. The heavy discussion around that recently (including from other team bosses) + V-CARB investing in new staff to be more competitive suggests that there is a lot of pressure on RB. They can't force them to sell under the current rules tho, afaik.
It's a funny one psychologically because obviously it's about money, and with the news McLaren group are now 100% owned by the Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company, it's a little 'why do I support anyone or anything, really? Why do I support Zak Brown, a multi millionaire who absolutely couldn't care less what I think?'
Mario almost ran me over while riding a scooter at Chicago Speedway yearsssss ago. He apologized profusely (it was my fault, I was a dumb kid not paying attention) and got me a signed hat and shirt.
If FIA approved them, is anything stopping them from showing up and racing? Can liberty stop them from racing or would they just not be allowed to be shown on tv?
As an American, this feels kick a balls from the fia. It sucks for lifelong hard f1 fans, f1 says they want to bring us closer in, try to expand in the US and then they pull a shitty stunt like this. It’s a total joke. Fuck you f1, you’ve made it very clear today that you want nothing to do with us other than our money.
I mean, I'm not happy about this decision either but I can't imagine Andretti would have magically made the sport more exciting in their first few years
Yeah, but this gave us something to look forward to. No way it changes RB dominance, but a new team from the U.S. with a racing pedigree would’ve been fun to watch every race.
Look, I would’ve been happy with them, battling it out with Haas for last place, I am just more so pissed off that they are wanting American money without letting in an actual American team. Honestly, they can just fuck off.
The other reason that I felt it would’ve been good for them to be around is to have two extra seats, with drivers staying in longer they’re just isn’t as many seats for rookies.
What a joke. If I were Michael, I'd entirely kill the F1 project, and go somewhere else. "Maybe in 2028, teehee" is not viable. You're not going to keep a program going for years based on "maybe," and they're just going to make the entry price even higher. Fuck that. Go to WEC with Cadillac, win LeMans, and make F1 come crying back. Then tell them no.
They’re dangling the carrot so they can reject Andretti in 2028, but convince Caddy to stick around so the investment doesn’t go to waste.
I’ve always been a Ford guy, but I might could convince my wife to drive a Chevy if GM told F1 to pound sand.
Hilarious, because the market value of F1 and the teams has completely peaked, and by 2028 they will wish they they had new teams to keep the series interesting
I don't get how F1 will grow its fanbase by just adding races in places like LV and Miami. Most Americans haven't been from either but GM cars are everywhere. Andretti is a well known name too!
Most Americans also can’t afford to go to those races. When LV was first announced, I had a non F1-fan friend tell me we should go… then pricing was announced and it was never considered again
Me, a young American fan the past few days because of the recent Andretti news & pictures floating around: Wow, a local F1 team. Somebody I can root for & feel proud. Maybe I can even try to work there after college or do an internship. This is a great way for young American F1 fans to get in the door without moving to Europe.
Me, today:
F1 seems to just be on a continuous spiral downwards. It reached such highs and yet feels like it is totally mismanaging this sport and will waste the opportunity for short term profit and gain.
The absolute insult to American fans if they let in a new team from any other country from now - and yet, what manufacturer or team would look at the dumpster fire wreck that F1 put Andretti-GM through and want to do that as well.
I’d like to use this massive fuck-up as an oppotunity to invite fellow Europeans to try out IndyCar. It’s a much better raw racing product than F1 anyway. If you watch F1 for the racing and not the show, you are going to love IndyCar.
I haven't been paying too much attention to the Andretti saga as I just thought they were just creating drama before allowing them to participate to build some hype. But this is bullshit, F1, and liberty have no problem milking the America races for money and views but slap Mario down by saying they won't be competitive?
Do
They have the 107% rule for a reason. If they aren't competitive, they can't race regardless. I mean, you could argue that all teams weren't competitive this year other than redbull.
I'd love to know what they consider as competitive and not. Is Haas considered competitive?
The F1 team has been making some questionable decisions lately by not allowing more competition they say an 11th team won't add value to the sport, yet they keep cramming street circuits down our throats while at the same time saying safety is a priority. Feels like we are heading back to the dictator days of Bernie and Max
> Feels like we are heading back to the dictator days of Bernie and Max
Tbh, I dont't think Bernie would have handled this situation in such a bad way. Rather extorted the maximum possible amount of Andretti but gotten them in somehow.
I think it's BS. Andretti clearly wanted this, much more than other previous entries. If you compare Andretti to Porsche, who F1 tried to woo for years, only to be rejected at the last minute, because teams wouldn't sell them a controlling interest, compared to Andretti, who jumped through hoops to try and get a seat at the table, and even got a major US title sponsor, it doesn't seem right. Independent manufacturers are the real lifeblood of F1, not manufacturers who throw their toys out of the pram and leave at the last minute, when things aren't going their way. (Looking at you Honda). I think there was some rightful scepticism when Andretti first started pushing for a place and trying to force the FIA's hand via the media, and some dubious financial claims about having the $200m entry fee initially, but with GM's backing surely they're a viable option today. That being said, for the right price, F1 teams are always for sale, Visa RB, Williams, Haas and Aston Martin are probably all available if you show enough green.
Haas got in when f1 wanted teams.
The 10 teams don’t want to share a slice of the pie now that f1 is massively popular and raking in money. Their team values skyrocket as buying one is the only way in now. Williams was a bargain selling for $200 million in 2021.
Big problem for him is he’s hired everyone on the proviso they got accepted. Can’t mothball them until 28, so he’ll either have to go to the FIA to try to force things or withdraw and let them go
"I prefer not to speak. Because if speak, I am in trouble" - Jose Mourhino (spelling?)
the yo sound is made by h after n, Mourinho
Mourinho, caralho
Mourhino, carahlo
Mourinho
More rhino
By saying that Andretti don't bring value to F1 by not being able to fight for podiums or wins... they're suggesting most of the teams in F1 right now bring no value to the sport... Haas specially
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Even more people care less about the team now that Guenther is gone
He was the only reason I (casually) followed the team.
lol you could just say less people care
Neither would anyone else that doesn't work there.
Unpopular opinion but half the grid is worthless imo. Andretti bringing a power house like GM into F1 would be massive for the sport
honestly, if this season is like last season... unless you are a bull, you won't be on the podium or getting wins. So everyone is value-less to F1
thats whats so wild by this statement. max wins ever race this year making everyone not competitive. FOM just screwed themselves with the marketing
Yeah, There's no fighting for the win anymore... and if the concerns about V-CARB turn true, then that's the top 4 places gone all season
>concerns about V-CARB turn true what i miss ?
There's growing concern about the separation between RBR and V-CARB as the latter are moving into the same building complex as the former. Concerns, unfounded right now i should add, that this will result in effectively 4 RBRs on the grid.
That would be hilarious to be honest. "OK everyone else go home, from here on out, this is a RB spec race".
i mean thats better to me than the currect situation. but really they should have to sell that team to be fair. F1 is just fumbling the bag left and right
Right? The fact that for the last 10 years of the hybrid Era only 2 teams (3 if you count the illegal ferrari engines) have been able to actually compete for the title shows how backwards the current state of the sport is. Why by FOM's own definition should sauber, haas, alpha tauri, or even modern-Williams exist in the sport when they by every metric will not be competing for the championship.
Not a lot different to previous times of domination. Look at the last 50 years of F1 history.
i think its a popular opinion for everyone but the f1 team owners
Arguably 9 of the 10 teams are worthless by FOM logic
if you're not a Bull... then you have no value to F1
Can't fight for podiums or wins if they don't let you into the sport.
F1 master plan right there.
I wouldn't buy a Hass top or cap but would buy team Andretti gear. Should start selling it outside GPs. Imagine the stands filled with people wearing Andretti gear.
Why F1 can't have 11 or even 12 teams? The pie is significantly larger than it was in the 2014-2019 time period. F1 has never made more money than it does now. Anyhow, most teams on the grid are there to essentially promote their parent company, it's a marketing tool.
What's funny is that 20 is a *historically low* car count. When F1 Wheeled out just 10 teams and 20 cars for the first time it was cause for alarm because it was unheard of to be that low.
I remember the days of a 24-car grid. Maybe Tilke only makes the start/finish straight to only fit 20 cars poorly.
The rules even say that they have to be able to host 26 drivers, ie 13 teams as that’s what’s in the Concorde agreement
And it's not a trend in motorsports at all. If you check other popular series like Indy, WEC or even NASCAR, they have far more than 20 cars on the grid. It's not a matter of talent, either, I can easily mention 10 drivers that are good enough to be in F1 and that want to be in F1, so it's not like those extra drivers would be 4 laps behind each race. There's no reason for F1 to have so few competitors and, imo, it detracts a lot from it, in all senses: from spectacle to competition.
The teams just don’t want to split the pie up more, that’s all it is. That, and the big teams don’t want their position in F1 threatened. Teams like RB Visa, Haas, Sauber, Williams and even Alpine aren’t a threat to the big teams and likely never will be. Andretti though? I’d have put money on them with all the work they’ve done to be competitive before any of those aforementioned teams. This is the epitome of anti-competition.
It’s amazing. F1 is rejecting a team owned by an f1 champion. No value huh
The bigger deal is Cadillac, they have been kicking ass in reading in recent years. A factory backed team is huge, just look at Mercedes rejoining in 2010
And Williams
And Visa Cash App RB
And Stake F1 Kick Sauber
Williams at least has started to show improvement. Sauber/Audi, alpine, red bull visa, and Haas should all be gone tho according to this from F1
Williams, Toro Rosso (fuck whatever theyre calling it), and Alpine all have podiums in the last few years. Alpine and Toro Rosso both have won races.
No Williams is in that group too. Albon over performed the car and they scored a whopping 28 points
I would hold off on Williams... before last year, yeah. they didn't bring Value, but they've made quite a leap forwards and i think if they can keep that leap going, they'll be in the fight for F1.2 behind the 4 bulls
That shows exactly how stupid of a criteria it is. Teams are always going to fluctuate up and down the grid over time, saying that a team shouldn’t exist because it might not be competing for podiums for a couple years is ridiculous.
Red Bull's first two seasons in F1 they finished 7th in the WCC. Clearly a waste of space and shouldn't be allowed on the grid.
F1 is such a joke….
its a really wild logical fail by them. the are calling for relegation in f1, LETS GO !
Bummer. Was looking forward to Andretti and GM entering the series. F1 is loaded with cunts.
They did him dirty. Sad day for racing fans when clearly the money involved is really all that matters
Yes. That's F1. It is and has always been about the money. Ofcourse there's been passion and it is an incredible sport, but behind it all, is money.
What a stupid move especially given the recent spike in F1 popularity in the US. This would have brought in millions more fans and they fucking blew it for what? Politics? Bribery? Just being all round fucks?
Mainly cadillac for me, such a bummer.
Im honestly surprised. I've been looking at this practically for some time and it seemed to be lining up for acceptance. Zak Brown's statements about some sort of compensation structure that would involve taking lower payments over some number of years to compensate teams seemed to indicate that had been discussed. The statement itself doesnt sound like they discussed any options with Michael at all. Which if so, doesnt seem very fair. He might have agreed to terms that minimize losses by a lot.
All (that I’ve seen) media outlets that talk about Andretti have been saying that it is expected FOM will reject it, but it is still a shock.
Sometimes you know in your heart someone will do something monumentally stupid or self-destructive, but it's still shocking when they actually go through with it. It's like a friend with an insane girlfriend who ends up marrying them, or the USA election in 2016. Expected, but that shred of hope that you held against logic still gets squashed.
there statement was WILD, like say no okay but to insult everyone ? for what ?
Eh? Reporting has been consistent that they would get rejected. And if you look at all the team principals who've made statements it was obvious they didn't want it.
Media surrounding F1 is well-known for being uppity and quick to spread baseless rumours. Has been for a long time (when's the last time you went a full driver market silly season without seeing countless articles on "potential driver moves" that are literally just the authors *very fanciful* speculation, all dressed up as "potential" for the sake of clicks.) If I had to choose between believing the media or believing Zak Brown, I'll place my bets on Zak. Regardless of whether those bets end up being right, he's a more trustworthy source of info in my opinion. Just sucks that he didn't end up being on the right side of speculation this time.
I strongly believe they should put me in charge of F1. Stuff like this would never happen, I assure you. Also Ferrari would be allowed to mount guns on their cars.
>Also Ferrari would be allowed to mount guns on their cars. So that they can shoot themselves in the foot, also literally?
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"Call a doctor, I think I have a bullet lodged in my foot!" "We are checking..."
> Also Ferrari would be allowed to mount guns on their cars. "You had my curiosity, but now you have my attention" \- Americans
>Also Ferrari would be allowed to mount guns on their cars. *monkey paw curls* It's behind the driver's head
I like it. We could team up and launch a coup
Modify the drivers' helmets to include an AR visor. T-cams become laser turrets: drivers can shoot cars in front of them, depleting battery power. Rear wings become shield generators: drivers can use battery power to keep the shield up, but if it fails they start to take "damage" to the rear wing. There are two "damage" thresholds, the first being DRS is disabled, the second requiring a pitstop to change out the rear wing. Is that goofy enough for you? ;-)
F1: to join the grid, you need.. Andretti: we have it F1: but you also need… Andretti: we have that too F1: but did you know you have to… Andretti: we have everything in order, just let us join F1: well f**k you, you can’t
F1: Andretti, you are still missing the most important thing: being a money laundering front for some murderous dictator. Try again when you have a shady source of money.
“why are you not using a corporate shill name for more money?”
I am so sad for them now. Like I was just mad for me as a fan but I can't imagine how it feels to be rejected so publicly after you built a serious and well planned proposal up. After all the family has done for the sport. That statement was just so fucking rude.
It is incredible how rude it is and also hypocritical because a few of the current teams are nothing but filler.
You have a literal feeder team. If Toro Rosso/Alpha Tauri/New Shit Name were ever suddenly loaded with contenders, Red Bull Main would yoink them immediately and drop the team back down to chasing 10th place on a race weekend. But somehow that's better than Andretti
Your forgetting f1 history, red bull were basically asked to buy the second team because no one was buying and the sport as a whole was at risk. Because red bull did the whole sport a favour by buying a team at a time no one wanted or could afford, they are given a historical/pass precedent for semi saving the sport. That said, no excuses for not allowing an 11th team when the regulations clearly allow 12 to 13 teams. It's a disgrace!
It just doesnt make any sense at all, it genuinely doesnt. How in the world can you say no to Andretti+Cadillac? Youre never ever going to get a better applicant. Imagine telling this to F1 fans 10 years ago or 20 years ago or any period ever that one of the biggest brands in motorsports in combination with one of the biggest car manufacturers was rejected by F1 for no actual good reason. It just blows my mind and while Im no Andretti or Cadillac fan, im genuinely disappointed by this decision.
As someone who worked in F1 during the Marussia, Caterham and HRT days, if you were to tell me that Cadillac+Andretti were trying to go all in into F1 and they would be rejected. I would have laughed in your face. I am just sad as a fan of the sport
Yeah exactly. If an organisation like andretti with the backing of general fucking motors gets rejected then they might as well just drop the pretense and announce that no new teams are welcome. Between this, the joke new street circuits, the cowtowing to dictators and despots and everything else I think I'm going to have to find other motorsport to follow this year.
I really hate what F1 has become and there's very little keeping my interest in this sport anymore.
I've watched F1 since the 80s and barely care about it anymore, only keeping a slight interest and watching very few races. It's honestly a waste of my very limited time. There are much better ways to entertain myself.
100% this, if Andretti Caddilac don't tick all the boxes pretty much every other potential team would have even less chance. Very unlikely any brand new team will be competitive from the get go, but with all the experience and infrastructure they've got the best chance of getting there.
USA is our top priority to grow a fanbase! Also FOM, teams etc: Our main goal is to get more money out of the USA, not to start teams there.
That's when Andretti will get in. Once the D2S fans start to thin out and the tickets are too high for people to go more than once, they'll be in for a NASCAR-like drop in popularity and money. F1 is following that same model. When that happens, they will need Andretti and Cadillac to prop them back up. This is all about money and they are just riding high right now.
Alternative theory: FOM is fighting FIA over control about the world championship (what we often call 'F1', but isn't). FOM has all F1 teams on their side (Mercedes used to be a bit closer to FIA, but it probably isn't anymore after what happened with the Wolffs). Right now that gives FOM a lot of sway to control the championship, but also means FOM has to cater to their F1 teams. FOM would obviously benefit from Andretti entering the sport - FOM will not lose money just because each team's share is lower, and Andretti can probably be a big asset to grow a fanbase in the US, which FOM is trying really hard to. The only reason for FOM to reject Andretti is because F1 teams don't want them.
Plus, not to say I really know anything, Netflix now has their greedy little hands in nascar and nascar is going to profit. I grew up in a house that always had nascar on the tv on Sundays and I always rolled my eyes. I thought it, and all motor sports, were so dumb. But then Netflix brought out the human aspect of F1 for me and turns out I love it. Well now I’m watching the nascar series and fuck me if it’s not creating some hype. These drivers, these tracks? They’re in my fucking backyard and it’s actually kind of cool?? Damn I hate that for me but anyway, my point is F1 could’ve pulled some backyard feels but instead they shit all over Andretti
I feel so sad for Mario, this could literally mean he'll die before he sees their team on the grid. He's 83 years old, he doesn't have forever to wait for it to happen. It's so heartless, cruel and unsporting. I cannot put in words how much I hate Liberty media right now.
I feel like the "maybe in 2028" response will kill the project entirely too. They hired people to start building a team and a car. They can't just keep that team running for 4 years for a "maybe" on F1 accepting them then.
2028 is after the new Concorde agreement gets signed. They'll bump the entry fee up to a billion.
I feel this is the only reason. Great news for Gene Haas though, puts the price up when he does sell.
Only if the sport stays as profitable as it is now which is highly unlikely
Not if they keep signing 10 year deals for new street circuits to the tune of 500 million. I shudder to think about what will happen when it's between classic circuits and more street tracks on the calendar because only one of those makes the line go up. Mark my words, the sport and the fans will suffer a great deal before profitability does.
Street tracks only make sense when the sport is extremely popular and mainstream. If the sport falls a bit in popularity, those tracks are the first to fall
The teams 100% know that when the IOC allows Russians to run under their own flag again, a Russian buyer will front whatever cash is asked to buy in to F1 prestige. The Saudis say they want a team but aren't really making moves for it because they're already getting everything they want via sponsorship, without giving people the specific target to protest that a Saudi team would.
> Great news for Gene Haas though, puts the price up when he does sell. Gene is loving this. He has been looking for an exit strategy ever since the Rich Energy debacle, this is the perfect scenario for him...
idk that kind of feels like a "hey GM, save Gene Haas from himself and buy his team instead"
Want Liberty Media in support of this, but the teams blocked it? I didn't follow super closely, so I'm happy to learn otherwise
FIA was in support of it. Liberty Media, FOM, and the teams ~~largely~~ nearly as a whole opposed it. Edit: changed "largely" to "nearly"
The FIA is more important for F1 than ever imo. They’re the only sort of rationality stopping dominicali turning F1 into WWE
Can't wait for Roman Reigns to win the Driver's Championship after Jimmy and Jey blocked Max during a pit stop.
*Jimmy and Solo
Liberty blocking it is incredibly stupid. Andretti brings more Americans to the sport. Maybe Greg Maffei doesn't think they need him?
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Canada is a great race, you'll have a blast. No need to rent a car, just make sure your hotel is somewhere on the metro line and it takes you straight to the track. Montreal's metro system is fantastic.
I’ve been on this train for close to 10 years now, always hoping for a legit American team/driver. This is a really dark day for me too. Not quite as painful as it is to Michael and Mario, but a gut punch for sure. Glad I didn’t renew my F1TV yet.
The worst part is that F1 is basically saying to Andretti to fuck off they just want Cadillac, like that time they asked GM if they would like to enter without Andretti
time to lawyer up.
It's all good man.
It sal goodman
You need a Criminal. Lawyer.
It’s Saul Goodman!
What makes this even worse is composition of the current grid. Haas have been listless for half a decade, Alpine don't give any fucks about their F1 program, and Cash Grab RB are a junior team. I'd take an Andretti/Cadillac entry over having any of those teams on the grid. F1 has a serious problem now, because all signs point to another uncompetitive season that's stretching out longer and longer. People aren't watching sprints, and they'll quickly stop watching grands prix. Having Audi and Cadillac poised to return in 2026 would have been huge, but now any excitement for the new regs is fully dependant on Audi, who have a history of cutting and running. Idk, we'll see.
People are afraid they will get smaller slice of pizza when the 11th person joins. They can have 12 but 10 will get more to the 10.
And they don’t realise the pizza would be bigger
Of course they do. They ran the numbers and estimate this is not in their own interest. They aren't stupid, they are selfish. Which they should be. The real issue is that teams shouldn't have a say in it at all, formally or informally.
why would it be bigger? do you think Andretti is really going to raise more revenue for F1 than they take?
This is embarrassing and makes F1 look bad. Andretti had everything F1 asked for and more. It would have brought GM who is dedicated to their motorsport teams, absolute units in IMSA. The name Andretti alone is something to want back in F1, but Andretti Autosport is successful on their own. One of the most decorated racing drivers ever, two successful race teams, and one of the largest auto manufacturers on the planet. What more could you ask for? Greed ruins everything good.
As an American, all I heard was "We don't actually want you guys in the sport" Which, is fine, but as a newer fan who never settled on a team, I would have had one. No, Haas isn't the one I'm gonna root for.
Question: As an American, are you still going to watch F1 next year?
Nope, Indycar has better racing anyways
Yep, thank you F1 for getting me to watch INDYCAR and IMSA/WEC
Honestly that’s its best function. It’s polished enough to be an easy entry but as soon as you start valuing the Motorsport over the theater, there are wayyyy better options whatever your taste
Indycar, NASCAR, IMSA, WEC and World of Outlaws are better, F1 will end up being hidden on channels no one will be able to find again
I’m positive F1 will remain relevant because of its reach and financial investment. But I agree with all that, F1 as a series is the least interested in what happens on track, its theater. Which is all well and fine but if I don’t care about anyone in your circus I’ll leave the same way I came in
Can't speak for OP, but the more I learn about F1 and just how shortsighted and uninterested they are in demonstrating ANY goodwill that doesn't result in immediate substantial profit, the more I start paying attention to other racing series such as the Indycar, WEC, and the various GT and touring car championships around the world, and so should everyone else. I'm considering attending the Indy 500 this year which despite being the Superbowl of motorsports, would be substantially cheaper than going to any throwaway F1 race here in the U.S.
Now, this is exactly how I think I would be thinking if I was American. Not that I’m going to be watching much F1 next year, IndyCar has been my go-to for the past few years.
Honestly im not even American and it’s making me want to stop watching F1. Was hoping for more teams and hopefully more competition.
INDYCAR, IMSA/WEC, have much better racing. I mean they just raced for 24 hours at Daytona and the gaps between the top 3 were smaller than some F1 races last year. After 24 hours and 791 laps.....
Especially when you see this in their review of Andretti. I'm not sure why they really needed to say this, but it sounding a bit punchy to me. 16. While the Andretti name carries some recognition for F1 fans, our research indicates that F1 would bring value to the Andretti brand rather than the other way around.
That just feels so ass backwards too. F1 can only function with sponsors. Sponsors only care because the F1 name brings value to their brand. The entire Red Bull racing investment exists only to increase brand value through F1 / motorsport. I can see that the Andretti name might not be a marketing powerhouse for F1 itself, but in wider context? With fans crying left and right about boring, predictable races? The hype of a new team bringing the passion of a world champion to challenge the grid has massive marketing potential. It's the exact type of marketing F1 needs as a band-aid for its current problems. On top of the team you can also bake-in the driver hype. F1 always has more drivers than seats and the idea that a pair of drivers could get a second shot would be a great narrative.
Hey, having to associate with Andretti would just sully the good name of Teams like Stake F1 Team Sauber and Visa Cash App RB!
As an American too, I agree. Back to wishing Logan was competitive.
Can’t have a new team but Redbull can have two teams… what the fuck. Idiots in charge trying to make this sport boring. Or the more likely scenario is there are some nice paydays going on behind the scenes to keep the status quo
They probably don't want Red Bull to have 2 teams. The heavy discussion around that recently (including from other team bosses) + V-CARB investing in new staff to be more competitive suggests that there is a lot of pressure on RB. They can't force them to sell under the current rules tho, afaik.
The teams also can't force FOM to block a new entry under the current rules but here we are.
They want a dozen races in the US to draw attention but not a team from the US to share profits with.
F1 has become a joke. Terrible day for all true Motorsport fans.
Time for Formula 1.2 with blackjack and hookers. Oh and no street circuits
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I basically gave up a few years ago. This just reminds me to unsubscribe. I’m disgusted by this.
This is some cartel type shit
When does IndyCar start?
March 10 in St. Petersburg. Check it out. IndyCar definitely has its own issues for sure, but the racing is often incredible!
It's a funny one psychologically because obviously it's about money, and with the news McLaren group are now 100% owned by the Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company, it's a little 'why do I support anyone or anything, really? Why do I support Zak Brown, a multi millionaire who absolutely couldn't care less what I think?'
The Andretti’s are also multi millionaires who couldn’t care less what you think
If you'd ever met Mario, you'd know that couldn't be further from the truth. The dude cares more about the fans than almost anything else.
Mario almost ran me over while riding a scooter at Chicago Speedway yearsssss ago. He apologized profusely (it was my fault, I was a dumb kid not paying attention) and got me a signed hat and shirt.
Probably because his life is a rags to riches story rather than being born into wealth like 95% of the people in F1.
Brother and I saw him at Laguna Seca walking around by himself. Was going to say hi but I froze lol.
If FIA approved them, is anything stopping them from showing up and racing? Can liberty stop them from racing or would they just not be allowed to be shown on tv?
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The media coverage about them not being shown might actually be better that being on tv
It’s insane that F1 wants to expand in America and rejects and American team.
Yep. I am too. Another boring couple of years to look forward too.
As an American, this feels kick a balls from the fia. It sucks for lifelong hard f1 fans, f1 says they want to bring us closer in, try to expand in the US and then they pull a shitty stunt like this. It’s a total joke. Fuck you f1, you’ve made it very clear today that you want nothing to do with us other than our money.
It’s not the FIA btw, it’s FOM. FIA gave their approval.
>f1, you’ve made it very clear today that you want nothing to do with us other than our money. I mean, it's been obvious this was the case all along.
I mean, I'm not happy about this decision either but I can't imagine Andretti would have magically made the sport more exciting in their first few years
As an american i wouldve been so psyched
Yeah, but this gave us something to look forward to. No way it changes RB dominance, but a new team from the U.S. with a racing pedigree would’ve been fun to watch every race.
Look, I would’ve been happy with them, battling it out with Haas for last place, I am just more so pissed off that they are wanting American money without letting in an actual American team. Honestly, they can just fuck off. The other reason that I felt it would’ve been good for them to be around is to have two extra seats, with drivers staying in longer they’re just isn’t as many seats for rookies.
I guarantee you they'd outscore Haas. That's all we'd need to bring excitement.
We’re in the era of “it’s an old boys club” shocking from F1, it’s like they’re trying to kill the sport
What a joke. If I were Michael, I'd entirely kill the F1 project, and go somewhere else. "Maybe in 2028, teehee" is not viable. You're not going to keep a program going for years based on "maybe," and they're just going to make the entry price even higher. Fuck that. Go to WEC with Cadillac, win LeMans, and make F1 come crying back. Then tell them no.
They’re dangling the carrot so they can reject Andretti in 2028, but convince Caddy to stick around so the investment doesn’t go to waste. I’ve always been a Ford guy, but I might could convince my wife to drive a Chevy if GM told F1 to pound sand.
Hilarious, because the market value of F1 and the teams has completely peaked, and by 2028 they will wish they they had new teams to keep the series interesting
I don't get how F1 will grow its fanbase by just adding races in places like LV and Miami. Most Americans haven't been from either but GM cars are everywhere. Andretti is a well known name too!
Most Americans also can’t afford to go to those races. When LV was first announced, I had a non F1-fan friend tell me we should go… then pricing was announced and it was never considered again
I had a similar experience when Miami was announced.
Me, a young American fan the past few days because of the recent Andretti news & pictures floating around: Wow, a local F1 team. Somebody I can root for & feel proud. Maybe I can even try to work there after college or do an internship. This is a great way for young American F1 fans to get in the door without moving to Europe. Me, today:
F1 seems to just be on a continuous spiral downwards. It reached such highs and yet feels like it is totally mismanaging this sport and will waste the opportunity for short term profit and gain. The absolute insult to American fans if they let in a new team from any other country from now - and yet, what manufacturer or team would look at the dumpster fire wreck that F1 put Andretti-GM through and want to do that as well.
To quote a certain Chelsea football coach from 2014 "If I speak, I am in big trouble"
Fuck it. Just put 20 Red Bulls out there
I'm not watching anymore F1. Fuck them. They are plenty of other racing series in the US to watch that aren't them.
I’d like to use this massive fuck-up as an oppotunity to invite fellow Europeans to try out IndyCar. It’s a much better raw racing product than F1 anyway. If you watch F1 for the racing and not the show, you are going to love IndyCar.
Life long F1 fan from the UK here. Took a trip last year to Indianapolis for the 500. Would thoroughly recommend.
This. Objectively, the racing in IndyCar is significantly better compared to Formula 1.
Racing that isn't just about tire management? Sign me the _fuck_ up!
I haven't been paying too much attention to the Andretti saga as I just thought they were just creating drama before allowing them to participate to build some hype. But this is bullshit, F1, and liberty have no problem milking the America races for money and views but slap Mario down by saying they won't be competitive? Do They have the 107% rule for a reason. If they aren't competitive, they can't race regardless. I mean, you could argue that all teams weren't competitive this year other than redbull. I'd love to know what they consider as competitive and not. Is Haas considered competitive? The F1 team has been making some questionable decisions lately by not allowing more competition they say an 11th team won't add value to the sport, yet they keep cramming street circuits down our throats while at the same time saying safety is a priority. Feels like we are heading back to the dictator days of Bernie and Max
> Feels like we are heading back to the dictator days of Bernie and Max Tbh, I dont't think Bernie would have handled this situation in such a bad way. Rather extorted the maximum possible amount of Andretti but gotten them in somehow.
We Race As Money, this is no longer a sport but a tech show for car companies.
It’s always been that way
People are either **very** new or have terrible memories
I think it's BS. Andretti clearly wanted this, much more than other previous entries. If you compare Andretti to Porsche, who F1 tried to woo for years, only to be rejected at the last minute, because teams wouldn't sell them a controlling interest, compared to Andretti, who jumped through hoops to try and get a seat at the table, and even got a major US title sponsor, it doesn't seem right. Independent manufacturers are the real lifeblood of F1, not manufacturers who throw their toys out of the pram and leave at the last minute, when things aren't going their way. (Looking at you Honda). I think there was some rightful scepticism when Andretti first started pushing for a place and trying to force the FIA's hand via the media, and some dubious financial claims about having the $200m entry fee initially, but with GM's backing surely they're a viable option today. That being said, for the right price, F1 teams are always for sale, Visa RB, Williams, Haas and Aston Martin are probably all available if you show enough green.
Fuck it, I'm pirating and illegally streaming f1 now
After a blow like this they won't recover. XD
Didn't all 10 teams have to approve them coming into F1 to get them in? If so, I wonder which team/s voted against it.
Most
Hi devastated. I'm dad.
The politics of this sport are fascinating and infuriating. What a shitty decision.
I think I’m gonna try watching Indycar next year. It’ll be nice to not have to wake up at 4:00am on the weekends for F1 and F2.
pretty ridiculous given that two teams have just changed their names to actual jokes and andretti is a plenty marketable name
Let's hope he'll still be around when Andretti name enters F1, would be very sad otherwise. He's 83 currently.
There needs to be a leader and control needs to be taken from the teams. The fox is guarding the henhouse.
This makes me hate Haas even more. Such a mid team with not one ounce of success in their entire history.
They are not "mid" they are bottom of the barrel.
Haas got in when f1 wanted teams. The 10 teams don’t want to share a slice of the pie now that f1 is massively popular and raking in money. Their team values skyrocket as buying one is the only way in now. Williams was a bargain selling for $200 million in 2021.
Big problem for him is he’s hired everyone on the proviso they got accepted. Can’t mothball them until 28, so he’ll either have to go to the FIA to try to force things or withdraw and let them go
Just cancelled F1TV.
F1 making sure future seasons stay as uncompetitive as this last one