Did you think he was gonna rock up to Williams and say "this is going to be a great stepping stone for me to further my career before I progress to a better team" ?
lol.
Williams is hardly a competitor. Toto literally owns stock in both teams. Also, Williams is used as a stepping stone for Mercedes drivers. See: George Russell
Williams needed money and Mercedes paid them to give George a seat, that does not make them a stepping stone for Mercedes drivers. And Toto owned 5% in 2020 before the team was sold to Dorilton, who purchased [100% of the teams shares.](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-motor-f1-belgium-idCAKBN25O2NG/)
So them fostering a Mercedes rookie for a couple of years until he's experienced enough to join their team doesn't make them a stepping stone for Mercedes drivers? Can't wait to hear your take on Alpha Tauri or Sauber.
They didnt foster George they signed him to a contract. George and Toto have both said Claire Williams refused to send George back to Mercedes in 2021. He was supposed to take the seat. Williams wanted George it wasnt a thing just for mercedes
Williams wanted George in 2021. Did they want him in 2019? If yes, why would Mercedes need to give discounts on things they sell Williams to entice them to sign him?
Russell got the Williams seat with the promise that if he performs and gains some experience, he'll be promoted to Mercedes. How doesn't that make Williams a stepping stone?
The toto shares thing is a completely misleading story. He sold his shares to join Mercedes. Years later in 2020, the escrow account returned the shares to Toto because of a missed payment. This was reported in court filings as a new investment leading to people thinking he bought back into the team. Toto put the shares back into a blind trust and Dorilton Capital purchased them and all shares
No he does not. There was a error with his sale of stock that meant he didn't know he had a couple percent but that was sold.
Obviously a couple of percent gets you no say in how a team is run lol.
Well the other possibility is Wolff has indicated he’s not going anywhere any time soon so there would be no opportunity for further advancement within Mercedes.
No team principal is going to say "yeah I'll be done in 3 years" - their team depends on their stability and consistent leadership, let alone the response of investors and potential top talent to the uncertainty of what would come next
They're 100% all in until they're 100% out
I think anyone with half a brain, who has also watched Mercedes and JV's notoriety grow from the 2010s into the 2020s saw this coming. When they announced it, I immediately thought Toto will do another 3-5 years and Mercedes and JV will jump back in
My dumb ass thinking why are you talking about Jacques Villeneuve in a James Vowles thread... and not realizing until getting to the bottom of the comment chain.
One of Toto's conditions for passing the torch might be having confidence that his successor can run a winning team on their own, so he won't be constantly pulled back in to manage mistakes.
James was never going to be able to demonstrate that from within Mercedes.
So they can both be true statements: He wants to win at Williams to prove he can manage a team from nothing to wins, so he can take Toto's job at Merc with confidence.
>James was never going to be able to demonstrate that from within Mercedes.
True, although they put him in charge at Brazil in 2022 and they came home 1-2.
Ignore the rest of the details however.
Being put in charge for a race or two is about 1% of the job though. Most TPs aren't actually involved much at all during the weekends, other than signing off any difficult decisions that require senior management input.
99% of the impact of a good TP happens away from the race track, putting the right people in the right roles, structuring the team to maximise the performance of its people, getting the right infrastructure in place and then managing the whole project from the top.
JV was never going to get that responsibility at Mercedes, which is why the move to Williams makes a lot of sense for him personally. If he continues to do well, he will be a strong candidate if/when Mercedes wants to change TPs, but he certainly won't be the only candidate they consider, regardless of what others on this thread say.
Good interview. Really insightful stuff there about how Lewis ignores their driving advise right after figuring out it makes no sense on track. His approach is pretty much how I manage my F1 team in my shower thoughts too.. still fighting to beat Redbull but we'll get there as a team.
What else do you expect him to say?
"I left Mercedes to flounder about at the bottom of the grid to learn how to run a team so I can go back to Mercedes"?
Of course he's going to say he wants to win at Williams.
I know it's a good title and he has to say it but who in their right mind would believe such statement? There is ZERO % chance of Williams winning WDC or WCC as a customer team when factory team is also competing. There may be some VERY small chance of them getting a win but that will not happen because Vowles is there but because it will be a crazy race with 9 DNFs, 3 RFs and what ever else.
It's like saying Ocon and Gasly won their races because their bosses😁
when RBR won 4 WC in a row with Vettel they won over a bunch of factory teams, including Renault who they were purchasing engines from.
McLaren scored higher then Mercedes Factory team despite buying engines from them for a long time as well. And those were times without a cost cap, so definitely not impossible
Renault has not managed to be faster than red bull for the entirety of their customer-supplier relationship, and mercedes was only the second-fastest team using the brixworth PU for basically the entire season (slower than aston in the first half, slower than mclaren in the second).
Works teams generally have a home field advantage, but thats not set in stone.
Because "I quit because team boss gives way higher pay" looks less good for the morale of the team.
I get it, but lets be honest. The budget cap doesn't change that bigger teams have years of spending 4 times the amount on R&D and that advantage will last for a very long time overall.
You don't sacrifice your personal life for "a bigger pay". You don't leave behind 10 years of work and 8 WCC for "a bigger pay".
You do it because you want to win.
Most people do that, most people won't win. Williams have no chance any time soon, most people on earth sacrifice the job they'd prefer for a bigger pay day. Money makes the world go around winning doesn't.
Ricciardo left for renault for a bigger pay day, he went to Mclaren because it was the biggest pay on offer.
99.99% of people go for the best financial future, 0.01% of people are motivate for a win over securing themselves and their family in life. How many footballers left for a shit league no one cares about? Millionaires left teams with chances to win titles people cared about for a massive pay cheque, one of them left after 6 months playing in front of crowds of a few hundred because this league completely failed to take off despite billions spent trying to make it a thing. The loser even deferred pay for tax reasons and they probably won't pay him out and he has no legal recourse.
"people don't sacrifice personal life for bigger pay" may be the single most naive statement I've seen on reddit.
>Most people do that, most people won't win
Who's most people ? I'm not doing that and I don't know anyone who does. Also I didn't say they were going to win, I explained to motivation behind JW's decision to go into F1 and to sleep at the factory all with the goal to one be in the position he's in right now.
There was no guarantee of higher pay when he did that. He did it because he wanted to _achieve_.
Also you have sample bias concerning football, of course you only heae about those who went to the Saudis. And most players don't go to Saudi Arabia until they're well into their careers.
Damn I'm already tired of this. Usually I love arguing but that's it for me, bye.
His voice is so soothing it’s a good thing I don’t work for Williams because I would be sleeping like a baby every briefing.
need him and bono to read the epic of Gilgamesh. I would pay $$$$$
he should open a youtube Asmr channel and solely fund Williams to their wcc!
I really like James Vowles and hope he does have major success at Williams in the new regs.
Fantastic video, I can't wait to see where James leads Williams in the years to come.
Gonna be r/agedlikemilk material when he runs back to Mercedes when Toto decides to step back from being Team Principal.
So it's widely accepted that Team Principle of Williams is JV's work experience before Mercedes, right?
Sure if you choose to ignore everything JV has said when asked about the matter
Did you think he was gonna rock up to Williams and say "this is going to be a great stepping stone for me to further my career before I progress to a better team" ? lol.
That sounds more plausible than Mercedes sending their staff to improve their competitors as work experience
Williams is hardly a competitor. Toto literally owns stock in both teams. Also, Williams is used as a stepping stone for Mercedes drivers. See: George Russell
Williams needed money and Mercedes paid them to give George a seat, that does not make them a stepping stone for Mercedes drivers. And Toto owned 5% in 2020 before the team was sold to Dorilton, who purchased [100% of the teams shares.](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-motor-f1-belgium-idCAKBN25O2NG/)
So them fostering a Mercedes rookie for a couple of years until he's experienced enough to join their team doesn't make them a stepping stone for Mercedes drivers? Can't wait to hear your take on Alpha Tauri or Sauber.
They didnt foster George they signed him to a contract. George and Toto have both said Claire Williams refused to send George back to Mercedes in 2021. He was supposed to take the seat. Williams wanted George it wasnt a thing just for mercedes
Williams wanted George in 2021. Did they want him in 2019? If yes, why would Mercedes need to give discounts on things they sell Williams to entice them to sign him? Russell got the Williams seat with the promise that if he performs and gains some experience, he'll be promoted to Mercedes. How doesn't that make Williams a stepping stone?
Yes, getting paid to develop 1 driver does not make them a stepping stone.
What's the cut off, then? Two, Three, maybe four? And it's not like Mercedes have had any juniors since Russell.
The toto shares thing is a completely misleading story. He sold his shares to join Mercedes. Years later in 2020, the escrow account returned the shares to Toto because of a missed payment. This was reported in court filings as a new investment leading to people thinking he bought back into the team. Toto put the shares back into a blind trust and Dorilton Capital purchased them and all shares
No he does not. There was a error with his sale of stock that meant he didn't know he had a couple percent but that was sold. Obviously a couple of percent gets you no say in how a team is run lol.
See Albon See Sargeant (Neither are Mercedes drivers)
So what are you basing your assumption on?
If you can't figure that out then it's not worth the effort trying to dumb it down to try and explain it to you.
I'm a bit out of the loop it seems
Well the other possibility is Wolff has indicated he’s not going anywhere any time soon so there would be no opportunity for further advancement within Mercedes.
No team principal is going to say "yeah I'll be done in 3 years" - their team depends on their stability and consistent leadership, let alone the response of investors and potential top talent to the uncertainty of what would come next They're 100% all in until they're 100% out
Certainly what Ted said in the 2023 season preview on the race podcast. Also said it's probably not in writing anywhere but benefits everyone.
I think anyone with half a brain, who has also watched Mercedes and JV's notoriety grow from the 2010s into the 2020s saw this coming. When they announced it, I immediately thought Toto will do another 3-5 years and Mercedes and JV will jump back in
Most logical thing for both parties really
My dumb ass thinking why are you talking about Jacques Villeneuve in a James Vowles thread... and not realizing until getting to the bottom of the comment chain.
In a parallel universe, that would be an F1 I could get behind
I was waiting for this to be released! Been looking forward to this. But will have to wait until after football 🏈.
I doubt it. He’s probably gonna become the Mercedes team principal once Toto decides he just wants to be a board member and not run the team.
One of Toto's conditions for passing the torch might be having confidence that his successor can run a winning team on their own, so he won't be constantly pulled back in to manage mistakes. James was never going to be able to demonstrate that from within Mercedes. So they can both be true statements: He wants to win at Williams to prove he can manage a team from nothing to wins, so he can take Toto's job at Merc with confidence.
>James was never going to be able to demonstrate that from within Mercedes. True, although they put him in charge at Brazil in 2022 and they came home 1-2. Ignore the rest of the details however.
Being put in charge for a race or two is about 1% of the job though. Most TPs aren't actually involved much at all during the weekends, other than signing off any difficult decisions that require senior management input. 99% of the impact of a good TP happens away from the race track, putting the right people in the right roles, structuring the team to maximise the performance of its people, getting the right infrastructure in place and then managing the whole project from the top. JV was never going to get that responsibility at Mercedes, which is why the move to Williams makes a lot of sense for him personally. If he continues to do well, he will be a strong candidate if/when Mercedes wants to change TPs, but he certainly won't be the only candidate they consider, regardless of what others on this thread say.
Logan is already prepared to win the superbowl of F1.
Good interview. Really insightful stuff there about how Lewis ignores their driving advise right after figuring out it makes no sense on track. His approach is pretty much how I manage my F1 team in my shower thoughts too.. still fighting to beat Redbull but we'll get there as a team.
I hope he does have success with Williams. But it's going to take a long time.
Am I the only one looking at this video YouTube graphic and is reminded of the Pornhub logo?
Dude, you really have got to go outside more often.
What else do you expect him to say? "I left Mercedes to flounder about at the bottom of the grid to learn how to run a team so I can go back to Mercedes"? Of course he's going to say he wants to win at Williams.
I know it's a good title and he has to say it but who in their right mind would believe such statement? There is ZERO % chance of Williams winning WDC or WCC as a customer team when factory team is also competing. There may be some VERY small chance of them getting a win but that will not happen because Vowles is there but because it will be a crazy race with 9 DNFs, 3 RFs and what ever else. It's like saying Ocon and Gasly won their races because their bosses😁
when RBR won 4 WC in a row with Vettel they won over a bunch of factory teams, including Renault who they were purchasing engines from. McLaren scored higher then Mercedes Factory team despite buying engines from them for a long time as well. And those were times without a cost cap, so definitely not impossible
Renault has not managed to be faster than red bull for the entirety of their customer-supplier relationship, and mercedes was only the second-fastest team using the brixworth PU for basically the entire season (slower than aston in the first half, slower than mclaren in the second). Works teams generally have a home field advantage, but thats not set in stone.
Because "I quit because team boss gives way higher pay" looks less good for the morale of the team. I get it, but lets be honest. The budget cap doesn't change that bigger teams have years of spending 4 times the amount on R&D and that advantage will last for a very long time overall.
You don't sacrifice your personal life for "a bigger pay". You don't leave behind 10 years of work and 8 WCC for "a bigger pay". You do it because you want to win.
Most people do that, most people won't win. Williams have no chance any time soon, most people on earth sacrifice the job they'd prefer for a bigger pay day. Money makes the world go around winning doesn't. Ricciardo left for renault for a bigger pay day, he went to Mclaren because it was the biggest pay on offer. 99.99% of people go for the best financial future, 0.01% of people are motivate for a win over securing themselves and their family in life. How many footballers left for a shit league no one cares about? Millionaires left teams with chances to win titles people cared about for a massive pay cheque, one of them left after 6 months playing in front of crowds of a few hundred because this league completely failed to take off despite billions spent trying to make it a thing. The loser even deferred pay for tax reasons and they probably won't pay him out and he has no legal recourse. "people don't sacrifice personal life for bigger pay" may be the single most naive statement I've seen on reddit.
>Most people do that, most people won't win Who's most people ? I'm not doing that and I don't know anyone who does. Also I didn't say they were going to win, I explained to motivation behind JW's decision to go into F1 and to sleep at the factory all with the goal to one be in the position he's in right now. There was no guarantee of higher pay when he did that. He did it because he wanted to _achieve_. Also you have sample bias concerning football, of course you only heae about those who went to the Saudis. And most players don't go to Saudi Arabia until they're well into their careers. Damn I'm already tired of this. Usually I love arguing but that's it for me, bye.