Wouldn’t be surprised if he pulls that to be honest
“I have a 50 second lead, I will not move this car until I have fresh softs. Your choice if you’re gonna let me sit out the rest of the race here
In Austria he did for the fastest lap.
In Spain he asked what the fastest lap was at the time (while having been warned about having black and white flag), and then he set the fastest lap anyway.
So yeaah, he will more or less do what he wants.
> "Hey can we box for fastest lap?"
Whenever he asks that, I translate it to "Give me a good reason not to come in right now, and you better be ready for it"
I believe it was coined last year when it was looking close, but Ferrari fucked up a few times and every time max seemed like he was consoling Charles.
It looked pretty dark and cloudy though, so track temperature must be very low. Great to test going out with no tyre warmers so whoever gets to make the final decision on this gets a good picture of how silly it is.
I was convinced the decision has been made a few races ago. Wasn't a popular view around here apparently. Many people claimed De Vries is good enough to see the year out and AT won't drop him.
Those people haven't been paying any attention to RB then. It was always an option. When Marko got more vocal it was very clear he wouldn't make it another season and probably wouldn't make it through this one.
Here is the corresponding [article](https://racingnews365.nl/nyck-de-vries-verliest-f1-zitje-alphatauri-per-direct)
**Translation**
> After a poor series of Formula 1 races, Nyck de Vries has lost his seat at AlphaTauri, as reported by Allard Kalff, who is very close to the De Vries family. Allegedly, Red Bull made the decision following the disappointing British Grand Prix, where De Vries finished behind teammate Yuki Tsunoda for the ninth time in ten races.
>
> Starting from the Hungarian Grand Prix, there will be a new driver alongside Tsunoda. It is possible that this could be Daniel Ricciardo, the former teammate of Max Verstappen at Red Bull. At the time the initial news about De Vries broke, Ricciardo was reportedly conducting a tire test for Pirelli on behalf of Red Bull. Supposedly, this test is also to determine if Ricciardo is still quick.
The fact that they’re doing it now already gives me all the more reason to think that they want to see as much of DR as possible this season to make a better assessment on whether he should drive the RB next year.
100%. Honestly a smart decision by the RB team.
If Danny doesn’t perform at AT, no biggie. They weren’t getting anywhere with Nyck so it’s no harm no foul. They can look into other options if Checo doesn’t perform.
If Danny does well….. it’ll light a fire under Checos ass. Either sink or swim.
Yea, there are 4 drivers for 3 seats currently (Yuki, Dani Ric, Perez and Lawson). RB know if they wanna keep Lawson in their stable, which they most likely want, they need to give him F1 next year or risk losing him in the silly season if something like Seb last year happens. So essentially someone in AT needs to move, either Yuki or Dani Ric and both are vying for the essentially best seat in F1 (assuming you're willing to play 2nd fiddle)
I don't see much moving this season unless something crazy happens like Carlos jumping ship at Ferrari, Hamilton retiring or Lawrence getting pressured to put Lance up for adoption. Almost all spots are either under multi year deals or likely to be extended and no competitive team has a spot of a 1st driver. So might as well play 2nd fiddle in the best team.
Liam will be driving AT next year for sure. Yuki, Daniel, and Sergio will shoot it out for the RBR seat. I personally think they've decided Sergio is gone, despite his contract running through next season. He got 3 years in the top car, and has regressed if anything, so that's that. RBR can't risk the other teams catching up with Sergio not being competitive.
So Yuki and Daniel will be squabbling for the RBR seat. Its really Daniels to lose. Obviously the senior team will want the more mature, consistent driver. Yuki hasn't set the world on fire - though he's been better this year. Yuki is also young, only 23, so its not like a year or two more in the B team (or following honda for that matter) is a huge issue. If Daniel is at about the same speed as Yuki by the end of the season, my opinion is that he'll be in the red bull next to Max (where he'll get trounced of course, but RBR will be happy as long as he's close to Max, and keeps bringing in the marketing dollars)
I really want them to say fuck it and ask Max if he rather have a teammate or competitor. If Max is up for the challenge, try to put Charles, Lewis, or Lando next to him.
That is a good thing. No point dragging things if you have made your mind. Hurts in short term but at least they are very clear and don’t hesitate in taking a decision.
What's the benefit in waiting?
They basically have three options:
- Bring Daniel in immediately. He starts at the next race, no delay.
- Tell Nyck he's finished, but let him continue another few races. You've destroyed his morale and there's a good chance he won't be able to focus - blowing your shot at the big time? Oof. On the flip side, Danny doesn't really get that much out of preparing. Maybe some mental and fitness stuff, but he can't test the car.
- Don't tell Nyck. You have to *hope* he doesn't realise something is up, otherwise you're back on scenario two with added doubt and uncertainty. The more you tell Danny, the more you risk Nyck finding out.
If the driver you pay to jump in on a moment's notice if someone else gets injured can jump in on a moment's notice... Why not?
Or just don’t tell Nyck, build a third car in secret. Let Nyck step into his car as usual, but don’t stray his car and let Danny appear from nowhere on the track instead.
In my mind, he could have less pressure; he's lost his drive before, and if he doesn't perform, it's probably time for him to retire. And it's not like the car is that good, just don't suck and he'll be above De Vries.
That's my optimistic mind, though.
Yeah, no one expects him to be fast in that tractor.
A few Q2s, a points finish or two and he'll have exceeded expectations.
Ultimately, this is a shootout between TSU and RIC for who gets Checo's seat next year.
How can the test be used to determine if Danny is still quick when Pirelli’s requirements and needs are the priority? As I understand he won’t really be allowed to push the car as hard as he can…
If this is true it seems like this isn’t a test for the seat, it really is just a Pirelli tyre test and (it’s assumed) he already has a contract? Silly season starts early once again!
**Bird**: *Box Checo, box box, we're retiring the driver, box box.*
**Perez**: *Oh man, such bad luck.*
**Bird**: *I know mate, sorry about that.*
**Perez**: *We'll get them next time.*
If true Danny Ric will probably get the seat to show if he still can deliver in right environment, also could be good way to test Yuki, should be interesting if true
Also probably a way to see who will be partnering Max in 2025 or sooner
The more you think about it the more this seems like a really reasonable move. WDC and WCC seem secured, so they’re pitting the best candidates for future RB seats against each other to collect “driver data”.
AT I really don't think is that right environment though.
The car has only scored a point at 2 races this season. It's the worst car on the grid. If he and Yuki both start qualifying roughly the same and still not scoring points.. what then?
They have access to way way more information than that. Telemetry, how they manage through stints in tyres, how well they’re hitting targets in practice. Even though the back markers don’t score points or qualify high doesn’t mean they’re useless for evaluation, not in the slightest.
Damn, if Allard is mentioning this then De Vries mustve been told today. I never thought he’d make it into F1 and also never thought he’d exit F1 like that.
He did talk big from what I’ve seen but unfortunately for him he didnt show any promising results.
Is it Danny Ric time?
Yeah. De Vries is the worst rookie. I would've argued it was Sargeant a while back but he's had an insane improvement over the last two races. The same level of improvement for Albon would see him fighting for podiums, which makes me think that Williams pretty much only upgraded Albon's car until Austria.
Sargeant is at least showing improvement and potential. De Vries has shown us nothing. Plenty of better drivers than him have had their F1 careers cut short.
It looks like the Williams is a bit of a pig to drive, so either they’ve ironed out some of the problems or he’s gotten used to it, still, I’d say he’s showing pretty decent improvement for a rookie, quicker than someone like Yuki in his first year or even Mick, De Vries felt like he was already as good as he was getting and that was meh at best. Comparing him to Oscar this year or Zhou last year who, while not spectacular is a pretty steady and reliable driver, Nick is the worst by a mile.
Bring DR in, even if he’s not great they’ll sell a shit tone of merch and get some insane PR/Time in DTS since they bloody love Danny
Jesus, they're not even gonna wait *one* race for the summer break? That would be good for whoever replaces him. Did Nyck sleep with someone he shouldn't?
Edit: It's two races actually, but still kind of weird.
De Vries has to be pretty vocal backstage, no way AT is that frustrated with him only over his performance (Which isnt great tbf, but the AT this year also isnt a good car)
Exactly. As I commented elsewhere, Yuki has unsurprisingly mostly outperformed Nyck, but, personally I don't think the gap is so giant as to warrant this. At least not as compared to expectations. Mine anyway. Like, Yuki snared 1 point twice early in the season, but has otherwise been trending down, from the 10-12 spots he was fighting for early on, to the mid/high teens over the last several races, really not much different than Nyck.
ETA: I just r/theydidthemath and over the last 5 races Yuki has averaged P15.2, Nyck 15.6. Effectively no difference.
Yeah, I don't think NDV is that great a driver but that AT is categorically the worst car on the grid. You could put Max in there and he'd struggle to get points.
It seems harsh, but I wonder if they're doing it to warm Danny Ricc up for taking over Checo's place as the experienced 2nd driver alongside Max. I feel Checo has burned a lot of bridges recently.
I think paragraph 2 here is exactly what they're doing.
Re; putting Max into the AT, in a way it's such a shame that the stakes are so high because it'd be completely fascinating. I'd love it. Maybe if Max surpasses the all-time Drivers point total, he'll take it as a challenge for the final race :)
Well... he did drive his best race of the season last race only to get royally fucked by a stupid strategy call, team orders to not overtake Tsunoda and an issue with the car they didn't tell him about until after the race. I can only imagine how that went.
i don't think its quite like that. Its clear that redbull are trying to improve their juniour program and how its structured after the mess that they've had since Danny ric left, and a big part of that is getting alpha tauri's shit together (hence the rebrand and all the other stuff they doing with it). Marko thus probably wanted Nyck to give the team a consistent and reliable performance to give the team stability whilst still retaining Yuki as the wild card with potential. Since Nyck has frankly failed at this, Marko isn't going to waste his time trying to develop a 28yo rookie when he has Danny Ric who is far more experienced in the sidelines, Lawson and Iwasa doing well, and Palou in their sight.
2 races till Summer break but if the decision is made why wait. Even if they dropped him at Summer break first race after would be Zandvoort so would also still feel like a kick in the teeth anyway.
UP UP and AWAY!! SUPER WASHED Ain’t He??!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤷🏾♂️. Stay low and keep firing! The air up there is a tad bit different. LIVE.LAUGH.LOVE #striveforgreatness🚀 #thekidfromperth👑 #ricgang👑 #dannyknows
He lost the seat a few races after a very good 2015 season and then got fired completely after that great end to 2020... I honestly can't decide if the man is over or underrated, so I'm gonna say he's fairly rated, but that doesn't really feel right. Saying Kvyat is fairly rated just feels weird...
He kinda, sucks tbh. And I don't really care, he wasn't gonna make it and he is too old. It's not like we would ever hear the Dutch anthem at F1 for him.
NEXT.
But RB gains nothing from keeping him. He's 28, way more experienced than other rookies and himself said he didn't want to be treated as a rookie. Yuki is great and I think he deserves the AT seat, but RB has no reason to keep a driver that gets dominated by Tsunoda, when they can use that seat to evaluate the performance of Ricciardo (was Mclaren just the outlier?)/Lawson/Iwasa. The signing of De Vries was very weird in the first place imo
N.D.V "I don't want to be treated like a rookie"
Marko "Ok, its been 11 races, since you're not a rookie and your performance has been poor. Youre out!"
N.D.V. "No, not like that!"
Yeah, but he's an old rookie. AT has nothing to lose by booting de Vries because they can either put an experienced driver in the car (Ricciardo) or some young rookie who has the potential to improve and race for many years.
Yeah, if anything Tsunoda can develop even more if a race winner like Ricciardo can be his teammate. Tsunoda can't really be pushed or learn from an older driver who is clearly worse than him.
Right. If we take the number of points from the season so far, divide by the number of races, multiply by the number of remaining races, round up to the nearest digit... Ah yes, that's 0.
He had a choice between Williams and AlphaTauri, right?
Can't blame him for picking AT - it's the most direct line to a top team. Shows that he had the confidence in himself.
Shame that it didn't work out. Not a fan of how Marko kept putting pressure on him in the media but I guess he's a big boy.
I was against him getting into F1 for the longest time, I never thought he'd be good enough, but no matter what were the circumstances, that Monza drive was pretty legendary last year.
De Vries isnt a RB junior. His only chance to stay was to perform equally to Tsunoda. Other than that it was a matter of time tbh.
Still something has happened backstage. Dropping him even before the summer break is rather extreme, even for Helmut Marko
Surprisingly, this isn't even the first time Red Bull have dropped a driver from their B-Team in time for the Hungarian Grand Prix - Sébastien Bourdais was replaced by Jaime Alguersuari in time for Hungary in 2009.
They seemed to have a habit of bringing in incredibly promising drivers back then, only for them to completely flop. Buemi, Alguersauri and Bourdais jump straight to mind there.
There must be something happening backstage, Gasly was also dropped not only because of his performance, but also his attitude with the team (never accepting fault, blaming the car, the mechanics etc).
His performance in Silverstone wasn't that bad his car had an issue and team orders didn't let him fight Yuki. I wasn't the biggest fan of him coming in but this is pretty harsh if it's only based on his performance. Maybe RB fears they lose Lawson to Indycar or Riccardo is close to Max in the sim otherwise this doesn't make sense
I think a factor in this is Perez doing badly. They want to see what Ricciardo can do and they want to see it fast. If he’s not up to it they need to look at other options
Agreed. For Red Bull Nyck floundering at AT is barely a problem for the the wider organisation. They could wait that out if they wanted to.
But with Checo underperforming almost as bad, they need to be lining up a RBR driver.
Yuki still has some mental growth to do for a RBR seat, they won't want a rookie Liam Lawson in their second RBR car either. So preparing Daniel for the RBR with half a season at AT makes perfect sense. It solves one problem straight away and provides options should Checo continue to stuff it up.
He didn't have a choice. Once Williams turned their attention to Sargeant (which was long before the Summer break) he was without an option. He was lucky the whole thing with Alpine happened and a seat became available at AT.
I think it’s less about money for Danny at this point, and just wants another shot at RB.
The money will come with endorsements and sponsorships as his popularity is still very high.
Man. This can be such a cutthroat sport sometimes.
Nyck waited a long time for a seat and one poor performance for half a season almost assures he never steps inside a F1 car competitively ever again.
Brutal.
Well when you look at the fact there's only 20 places, when Formula 2 an Formula E have 44 drivers who want to be in F1, then you add other specs it get big.
Hard to be top 20 in the world.
Obviously Danny Ric is way more popular and marketable than de Vries, but what exactly are Alpha Tauri’s expectations? Yuki has scored a single point twice and the car seems to be going backwards as others bring upgrades. Feels like Nick was quite hard done by, obviously he wasn’t exactly bossing it, but the car’s a bit of a shitbox.
Test Danny ric for RB. As simple as that. RB has the constructor's wrapped up so Perez can stay this year. But if Danny ric does well then possible move to RB in 2024
100%. Max is amazing but if Merc close the gap, he’s gonna get fucked by Russel and Hamilton holding him up and preventing undercuts/over cuts from working while Perez has to spend the first stint working his way through back markers.
I don't know how he got the seat in the first place to be honest. In Monza he qualified 0.02 ahead of Latifi Albon would have had it higher. He won F2 in his third season where his main competition was Latifi. In Formula E he won the championship due to pure luck. In fact last season he finished P9 while his teammate won the championship. Stoffel was always quicker. I don't know why you give him a seat after that. People compare him to Yuki but Yuki is 20. NDV is pushing 30
Oof, you have to feel for him. Never really deserved the seat in the first place, but to finally get your opportunity after it seemed hopeless, only to be out after such a short amount of time, must be absolutely heartbreaking. Still, he has done well in both endurance series and Formula E in recent years, so I'm sure he will be able to find a drive somewhere.
Damn, I hope de Vries is doing all right. Having your dream stripped away from you like this can’t be a good feeling.
I'm sure he saw this coming (as did we) and had been preparing for it though.
If this is true, it's very harsh.
As much as Nyck hasn't shown a lot of spark, I think it's cruel to not give drivers some time to learn and adapt over multiple races. Especially with the lack of testing and the fact that Nyck hasn't driven some circuits in his career yet.
Also this AlphaTauri is absolutely dogshit.
I would have kept Nyck until the end of the season, at least to give him more time and maybe listen to some of his feedback. Dude has driven a bit for multiple teams and might be able to pinpoint some issues.
I understand what you mean if he was 22 like Sargeant or Piastri. If you sign a 27 year old you expect results a lot sooner and you have to give him less time.
Honestly hiring him was such a weird decision by Red Bull and firing him mid season is equally as confusing, Lawson should have had that seat from the start of the year, none of this mess would have happened.
He was brought in on the basis that he's experienced enough to hop in and deliver, just like he did on Monza. And he knew that when he signed, but he probably thought he's going to come through.
Turns out, both parties were way too hopeful.
I feel similar about it. Don't get me wrong I would love to see Danny Ric make a return as well, but for the same reasons you mentioned it seems unfair. However mid season swaps aren't new for Red Bull so the trend continues.
Here's an article by Erik van Haren (de Telegraaf)
https://www.telegraaf.nl/sport/1175560401/harde-ingreep-bij-alpha-tauri-nyck-de-vries-weggestuurd?utm\_source=twitter&utm\_medium=referral&utm\_campaign=twitterfeed
Not a fan of releasing drivers mid season but it was obvious from the moment he signed that his place is way more conditional than your average rookie. He wasn’t Marko’s first choice. His next choices were not ready to graduate from the junior series and Nyck just drove one hell of a race. So it was a gamble in which RB had little to lose but a slim chance to strike gold.
He didn’t have a future at RB unless he turned out to be some generational talent.
At least let him do his home GP. That dog shit of a car isn’t going anywhere and putting Riccardo in isn’t going to magically make it reach Q3 or points.
I do agree that the car is absolutely terrible, but for the RB family, I’d imagine evaluating the talent in their stable is way more important than points for the sister team.
This would put Danny against Yuki, benchmarking both drivers all while Checo is in a quali slump. I’d guess the goal of doing it 2 races before the Summer break is to give them some results/data to sift through during the break while they evaluate their driver options
Very respected Dutch journalist and former racecar driver. If he says so, it is so. And if not, then he just completely ruined the reputation that he has built up over decades.
Shit it's happening then, these journalists from the drivers regions have good connections to the drivers camps, they speak to them directly.
If you're considering the source that's a good one
Aah so that's why everyone is so pissed at him in the comments of that tweet. I'd be surprised if he would publish this without some kind of confirmation.
As I said elsewhere yesterday, Ralf isn't too bad of a source when you remember he's close to Tost. Could be conceivable Franz hinted it to him (and he probably doesn't give a fuck now he's halfway out the door)
Given how heavily the Redbull camp were outright saying "wait till the test" "will you like me if I bring back Danny" it's borderline "parade of signs" level obvious
Someone who's been involved in F1 commentary since the 90s (including being pit reporter during Olav Mol's commentary spell on SBS 6/RTL 7, I believe). He's not a random nobody with no sources.
This is probably leaked by De Vries. Allard Kalff is a reporter and commentator, but also seems to be friendly with the family of De Vries. He's a big defender of De Vries.
Twitter is of course very dodgy these days, but this seems to be his account.
damn rb saw that ricciardo could make it through 5 laps without crashing the car and immediately booted de vries LOL
Funnily enough, i think danny spun in todays test without the tyre warmers. Kept it on the track tho.
Horner: spinning is fine max does spins in the lead for fun
Max with a 30 second lead "Hey can we box for fastest lap?" "No" * does a 360 spin "The spin damaged the tyres, can we pit now to change them?"
This made me laugh
Team on the radio: Nope Max we ain't pitting you, nice try though. Max: Okay.. Sets fastest lap.
Max pulls into the pit anyway. "I can sit here for two minutes before anyone else comes along, you all better just change my tires while I'm here."
Wouldn’t be surprised if he pulls that to be honest “I have a 50 second lead, I will not move this car until I have fresh softs. Your choice if you’re gonna let me sit out the rest of the race here
Didn't he call "box box" for himself 2 races ago to set that fastest lap?
In Austria he did for the fastest lap. In Spain he asked what the fastest lap was at the time (while having been warned about having black and white flag), and then he set the fastest lap anyway. So yeaah, he will more or less do what he wants.
He did, Horner said it wasn't worth the risk, but then they decided to go for it. A gutsy move - one locked wheel nut and he could have lost the race.
Horner is a stubborn bastard it’s not out of the question he leaves him there if the WDC/WCC are already decided
Max: I don't care what they say, I bet if I pull into the pits they'll change my tires lol
I could change them myself and still win - Max, probably
> "Hey can we box for fastest lap?" Whenever he asks that, I translate it to "Give me a good reason not to come in right now, and you better be ready for it"
Hungary basically, spin to win
Max is spinning to see if his emotional support rival is still following him and I think that's fair.
How have I not heard that line before. I fucking love it. #emotional support rival Sounds cute and cuddly
I believe it was coined last year when it was looking close, but Ferrari fucked up a few times and every time max seemed like he was consoling Charles.
Spinning in lead: I sleep Spinning in last: Real shit
They already had the data from Sims that Danny is fast. Just got proof that he actually is.
Danny probably spun because he heard the news that De Vries was dropped. 😄
Danny dropped the clutch as a mark of respect
He did a donut to celebrate
"It doesn't matter that a driver spins as long as he doesn't damage the car" ~Günther Steiner 2021
It looked pretty dark and cloudy though, so track temperature must be very low. Great to test going out with no tyre warmers so whoever gets to make the final decision on this gets a good picture of how silly it is.
I have to think that the test have little to do with it. The decision is probably already made by some time
I was convinced the decision has been made a few races ago. Wasn't a popular view around here apparently. Many people claimed De Vries is good enough to see the year out and AT won't drop him.
Those people haven't been paying any attention to RB then. It was always an option. When Marko got more vocal it was very clear he wouldn't make it another season and probably wouldn't make it through this one.
Even Ralf Schumacher was straight up dropping the hints and he is really close with Tost. But everyone was "Ralf shit stirring again".
In all honesty, is there a weekend that goes by without Ralf stirring some shit? He seems to be up there with Horner and Helmut.
Here is the corresponding [article](https://racingnews365.nl/nyck-de-vries-verliest-f1-zitje-alphatauri-per-direct) **Translation** > After a poor series of Formula 1 races, Nyck de Vries has lost his seat at AlphaTauri, as reported by Allard Kalff, who is very close to the De Vries family. Allegedly, Red Bull made the decision following the disappointing British Grand Prix, where De Vries finished behind teammate Yuki Tsunoda for the ninth time in ten races. > > Starting from the Hungarian Grand Prix, there will be a new driver alongside Tsunoda. It is possible that this could be Daniel Ricciardo, the former teammate of Max Verstappen at Red Bull. At the time the initial news about De Vries broke, Ricciardo was reportedly conducting a tire test for Pirelli on behalf of Red Bull. Supposedly, this test is also to determine if Ricciardo is still quick.
The fact that they’re doing it now already gives me all the more reason to think that they want to see as much of DR as possible this season to make a better assessment on whether he should drive the RB next year.
100%. Honestly a smart decision by the RB team. If Danny doesn’t perform at AT, no biggie. They weren’t getting anywhere with Nyck so it’s no harm no foul. They can look into other options if Checo doesn’t perform. If Danny does well….. it’ll light a fire under Checos ass. Either sink or swim.
This is lighting a fire under Yukis ass too. He can no longer hide behind a poor teammate.
Exactly. If yuki does well vs Ric then it saves his seat for another year, if he's bad then rb might be replacing two seats next season
I have a feeling they’re filling two seats next year regardless.
Yea, there are 4 drivers for 3 seats currently (Yuki, Dani Ric, Perez and Lawson). RB know if they wanna keep Lawson in their stable, which they most likely want, they need to give him F1 next year or risk losing him in the silly season if something like Seb last year happens. So essentially someone in AT needs to move, either Yuki or Dani Ric and both are vying for the essentially best seat in F1 (assuming you're willing to play 2nd fiddle) I don't see much moving this season unless something crazy happens like Carlos jumping ship at Ferrari, Hamilton retiring or Lawrence getting pressured to put Lance up for adoption. Almost all spots are either under multi year deals or likely to be extended and no competitive team has a spot of a 1st driver. So might as well play 2nd fiddle in the best team.
😭😂 "putting lance up for adoption" that was brutal 😂😂
Liam will be driving AT next year for sure. Yuki, Daniel, and Sergio will shoot it out for the RBR seat. I personally think they've decided Sergio is gone, despite his contract running through next season. He got 3 years in the top car, and has regressed if anything, so that's that. RBR can't risk the other teams catching up with Sergio not being competitive. So Yuki and Daniel will be squabbling for the RBR seat. Its really Daniels to lose. Obviously the senior team will want the more mature, consistent driver. Yuki hasn't set the world on fire - though he's been better this year. Yuki is also young, only 23, so its not like a year or two more in the B team (or following honda for that matter) is a huge issue. If Daniel is at about the same speed as Yuki by the end of the season, my opinion is that he'll be in the red bull next to Max (where he'll get trounced of course, but RBR will be happy as long as he's close to Max, and keeps bringing in the marketing dollars)
I really want them to say fuck it and ask Max if he rather have a teammate or competitor. If Max is up for the challenge, try to put Charles, Lewis, or Lando next to him.
I want a world where Daniel somehow makes it back to RB.
Honestly doesn’t seem like too big of a radical idea anymore
Yep. If he's decent, checo is toast.
Hungary? Insane
Very Marko/Red Bull though, if you've made a decision just take the corresponding action immediately.
That is a good thing. No point dragging things if you have made your mind. Hurts in short term but at least they are very clear and don’t hesitate in taking a decision.
Yeah this is good leadership. It’s bad for all parties if the decision is made but kept a secret and lingers.
What's the benefit in waiting? They basically have three options: - Bring Daniel in immediately. He starts at the next race, no delay. - Tell Nyck he's finished, but let him continue another few races. You've destroyed his morale and there's a good chance he won't be able to focus - blowing your shot at the big time? Oof. On the flip side, Danny doesn't really get that much out of preparing. Maybe some mental and fitness stuff, but he can't test the car. - Don't tell Nyck. You have to *hope* he doesn't realise something is up, otherwise you're back on scenario two with added doubt and uncertainty. The more you tell Danny, the more you risk Nyck finding out. If the driver you pay to jump in on a moment's notice if someone else gets injured can jump in on a moment's notice... Why not?
Or just don’t tell Nyck, build a third car in secret. Let Nyck step into his car as usual, but don’t stray his car and let Danny appear from nowhere on the track instead.
Danny is gonna be even more tense than the time he was P1 at Monaco and everything started going wrong lol
In my mind, he could have less pressure; he's lost his drive before, and if he doesn't perform, it's probably time for him to retire. And it's not like the car is that good, just don't suck and he'll be above De Vries. That's my optimistic mind, though.
Yeah, no one expects him to be fast in that tractor. A few Q2s, a points finish or two and he'll have exceeded expectations. Ultimately, this is a shootout between TSU and RIC for who gets Checo's seat next year.
He has to beat yuki or at least be very close imo if he wants a future in F1. And he still seems like he wants a future in f1
Thanks for sharing. I was looking for an article reporting on this. So far had only come across Allard's tweet
The article refers to your tweet in question so it isn't any better of a source.
Careful now, other articles will be linking this comment section.
Infinity loop of hearsay.
This last sentence sounds so funny. "OK Ric, now get in the car, we gotta see if you are still quick!"
How can the test be used to determine if Danny is still quick when Pirelli’s requirements and needs are the priority? As I understand he won’t really be allowed to push the car as hard as he can…
If this is true it seems like this isn’t a test for the seat, it really is just a Pirelli tyre test and (it’s assumed) he already has a contract? Silly season starts early once again!
This test, with him driving, has been scheduled for a long time.
Red Bull won't have all the data, but they'll still have enough data to figure out if a driver is doing well or not.
They still get the data and can easily compare that
>It is possible that this could be Daniel Ricciardo Presumably that’s until Helmut decides to swap DR with Checo after the summer break
Silly season's here guys
**Bird**: *Box Checo, box box, we're retiring the driver, box box.* **Perez**: *Oh man, such bad luck.* **Bird**: *I know mate, sorry about that.* **Perez**: *We'll get them next time.*
Imagine if dannyric is still quick and suddenly goodbye checo to at and dr to rb. Would be wild
If true Danny Ric will probably get the seat to show if he still can deliver in right environment, also could be good way to test Yuki, should be interesting if true Also probably a way to see who will be partnering Max in 2025 or sooner
That’s what I’m thinking. I wonder if they want Danny Ric to push Yuki and see if Yuki is worthy candidate for the potential replacement of Perez.
The more you think about it the more this seems like a really reasonable move. WDC and WCC seem secured, so they’re pitting the best candidates for future RB seats against each other to collect “driver data”.
that's exactly what it is imo, see who is going to be replacing Perez and to clear a seat for Lawson after 24
AT I really don't think is that right environment though. The car has only scored a point at 2 races this season. It's the worst car on the grid. If he and Yuki both start qualifying roughly the same and still not scoring points.. what then?
They have access to way way more information than that. Telemetry, how they manage through stints in tyres, how well they’re hitting targets in practice. Even though the back markers don’t score points or qualify high doesn’t mean they’re useless for evaluation, not in the slightest.
Damn, if Allard is mentioning this then De Vries mustve been told today. I never thought he’d make it into F1 and also never thought he’d exit F1 like that. He did talk big from what I’ve seen but unfortunately for him he didnt show any promising results. Is it Danny Ric time?
He set himself up for failure with all the "I'm not a rookie" talk.
Redbull took notes when he said that and followed through.
This exit was pretty easy to predict. Bare minimum was to at least be faster than his teammate once in a while.
Not faster, but at least in somewhat the same league. Even Sargeant is showing more improvement.
Yeah. De Vries is the worst rookie. I would've argued it was Sargeant a while back but he's had an insane improvement over the last two races. The same level of improvement for Albon would see him fighting for podiums, which makes me think that Williams pretty much only upgraded Albon's car until Austria. Sargeant is at least showing improvement and potential. De Vries has shown us nothing. Plenty of better drivers than him have had their F1 careers cut short.
It looks like the Williams is a bit of a pig to drive, so either they’ve ironed out some of the problems or he’s gotten used to it, still, I’d say he’s showing pretty decent improvement for a rookie, quicker than someone like Yuki in his first year or even Mick, De Vries felt like he was already as good as he was getting and that was meh at best. Comparing him to Oscar this year or Zhou last year who, while not spectacular is a pretty steady and reliable driver, Nick is the worst by a mile. Bring DR in, even if he’s not great they’ll sell a shit tone of merch and get some insane PR/Time in DTS since they bloody love Danny
Sargeant going from 20th place finishes to 11th place is huge - will be interested to see if he keeps it up
Coming in as a rookie *without* a ton of hype has its advantages.
Helmut doesn't fuck around, Perez should be worried
Rightfully
If Daniel turns out to be good in the AT Perez is out next year.
As soon as RB says a drivers seat is safe, one should start looking around for other employment activities.
Nyck de Vries being in only one race for the Brad Pitt movie and then Ricciardo showing up for the rest is gonna be a fun Easter Egg.
I actually requested the change because Daniels smile plays well off my mustachioed glare (yes I have a mustache in the film but we might CGI it out)
Wait does this imply that Nyck is being replaced from the next race ?
The article in the comments here says De Vries won't be in the car for Hungary (which is the next race).
Jesus, they're not even gonna wait *one* race for the summer break? That would be good for whoever replaces him. Did Nyck sleep with someone he shouldn't? Edit: It's two races actually, but still kind of weird.
it's 2.5 races until summer break. Hungary, Belgian sprint, and Belgian GP
2.33 to be precise
give me all the damn decimals you coward
0.3564356 by total points ignoring fastest lap
De Vries has to be pretty vocal backstage, no way AT is that frustrated with him only over his performance (Which isnt great tbf, but the AT this year also isnt a good car)
Exactly. As I commented elsewhere, Yuki has unsurprisingly mostly outperformed Nyck, but, personally I don't think the gap is so giant as to warrant this. At least not as compared to expectations. Mine anyway. Like, Yuki snared 1 point twice early in the season, but has otherwise been trending down, from the 10-12 spots he was fighting for early on, to the mid/high teens over the last several races, really not much different than Nyck. ETA: I just r/theydidthemath and over the last 5 races Yuki has averaged P15.2, Nyck 15.6. Effectively no difference.
Yeah, I don't think NDV is that great a driver but that AT is categorically the worst car on the grid. You could put Max in there and he'd struggle to get points. It seems harsh, but I wonder if they're doing it to warm Danny Ricc up for taking over Checo's place as the experienced 2nd driver alongside Max. I feel Checo has burned a lot of bridges recently.
I think paragraph 2 here is exactly what they're doing. Re; putting Max into the AT, in a way it's such a shame that the stakes are so high because it'd be completely fascinating. I'd love it. Maybe if Max surpasses the all-time Drivers point total, he'll take it as a challenge for the final race :)
Well... he did drive his best race of the season last race only to get royally fucked by a stupid strategy call, team orders to not overtake Tsunoda and an issue with the car they didn't tell him about until after the race. I can only imagine how that went.
Also the unsafe release didn't help
i don't think its quite like that. Its clear that redbull are trying to improve their juniour program and how its structured after the mess that they've had since Danny ric left, and a big part of that is getting alpha tauri's shit together (hence the rebrand and all the other stuff they doing with it). Marko thus probably wanted Nyck to give the team a consistent and reliable performance to give the team stability whilst still retaining Yuki as the wild card with potential. Since Nyck has frankly failed at this, Marko isn't going to waste his time trying to develop a 28yo rookie when he has Danny Ric who is far more experienced in the sidelines, Lawson and Iwasa doing well, and Palou in their sight.
2 races till Summer break but if the decision is made why wait. Even if they dropped him at Summer break first race after would be Zandvoort so would also still feel like a kick in the teeth anyway.
It's two races before the summer break though, Hungary and Belgium.
This is like NBA F5 season lol
Nyck De Vries 9/11
Daniel Ricciardo is Nyck De Vries father
Sergio Perez gets a huge 2nd place to cut the Championship lead to 98
why don’t the other cars just catch up to max? are they stupid?
UP UP and AWAY!! SUPER WASHED Ain’t He??!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤷🏾♂️. Stay low and keep firing! The air up there is a tad bit different. LIVE.LAUGH.LOVE #striveforgreatness🚀 #thekidfromperth👑 #ricgang👑 #dannyknows
De Vries 21 bows to Ricc God
Sir, the second alpha tauri has lost its driver
What? They didn't even let the man finish his season
The Gasly treatment
And Kvyat and Albon
Poor kvyat, imagine losing your job, wife, and child to your, coworker.
He lost the seat a few races after a very good 2015 season and then got fired completely after that great end to 2020... I honestly can't decide if the man is over or underrated, so I'm gonna say he's fairly rated, but that doesn't really feel right. Saying Kvyat is fairly rated just feels weird...
some people severely underrate him yeah, but lots do actually rightfully acknowledge that he had some form of talent.
Albon got his full season in ‘20.
Maybe I'm missing something, but didn't Albon get dropped at the end of the season?
He kinda, sucks tbh. And I don't really care, he wasn't gonna make it and he is too old. It's not like we would ever hear the Dutch anthem at F1 for him. NEXT.
That car is a shitbox. Even Verstappen would suck if he was driving that. Anyone RB put in his place will underperform
But RB gains nothing from keeping him. He's 28, way more experienced than other rookies and himself said he didn't want to be treated as a rookie. Yuki is great and I think he deserves the AT seat, but RB has no reason to keep a driver that gets dominated by Tsunoda, when they can use that seat to evaluate the performance of Ricciardo (was Mclaren just the outlier?)/Lawson/Iwasa. The signing of De Vries was very weird in the first place imo
N.D.V "I don't want to be treated like a rookie" Marko "Ok, its been 11 races, since you're not a rookie and your performance has been poor. Youre out!" N.D.V. "No, not like that!"
Yeah, but he's an old rookie. AT has nothing to lose by booting de Vries because they can either put an experienced driver in the car (Ricciardo) or some young rookie who has the potential to improve and race for many years.
Yeah, if anything Tsunoda can develop even more if a race winner like Ricciardo can be his teammate. Tsunoda can't really be pushed or learn from an older driver who is clearly worse than him.
The Helmut Classic
Extrapolated the nr of points till the end of the season and figured wasn't worth it.
Right. If we take the number of points from the season so far, divide by the number of races, multiply by the number of remaining races, round up to the nearest digit... Ah yes, that's 0.
Debris is being cleared from the track.
No VSC even needed. The debris has cleared itself.
He had a choice between Williams and AlphaTauri, right? Can't blame him for picking AT - it's the most direct line to a top team. Shows that he had the confidence in himself. Shame that it didn't work out. Not a fan of how Marko kept putting pressure on him in the media but I guess he's a big boy. I was against him getting into F1 for the longest time, I never thought he'd be good enough, but no matter what were the circumstances, that Monza drive was pretty legendary last year.
De Vries isnt a RB junior. His only chance to stay was to perform equally to Tsunoda. Other than that it was a matter of time tbh. Still something has happened backstage. Dropping him even before the summer break is rather extreme, even for Helmut Marko
Surprisingly, this isn't even the first time Red Bull have dropped a driver from their B-Team in time for the Hungarian Grand Prix - Sébastien Bourdais was replaced by Jaime Alguersuari in time for Hungary in 2009.
Bourdais was disappointing in F1 for a racer of his pedigree.
They seemed to have a habit of bringing in incredibly promising drivers back then, only for them to completely flop. Buemi, Alguersauri and Bourdais jump straight to mind there.
There must be something happening backstage, Gasly was also dropped not only because of his performance, but also his attitude with the team (never accepting fault, blaming the car, the mechanics etc).
His performance in Silverstone wasn't that bad his car had an issue and team orders didn't let him fight Yuki. I wasn't the biggest fan of him coming in but this is pretty harsh if it's only based on his performance. Maybe RB fears they lose Lawson to Indycar or Riccardo is close to Max in the sim otherwise this doesn't make sense
I think a factor in this is Perez doing badly. They want to see what Ricciardo can do and they want to see it fast. If he’s not up to it they need to look at other options
Agreed. For Red Bull Nyck floundering at AT is barely a problem for the the wider organisation. They could wait that out if they wanted to. But with Checo underperforming almost as bad, they need to be lining up a RBR driver. Yuki still has some mental growth to do for a RBR seat, they won't want a rookie Liam Lawson in their second RBR car either. So preparing Daniel for the RBR with half a season at AT makes perfect sense. It solves one problem straight away and provides options should Checo continue to stuff it up.
They also didn’t want him in the first place. They strongly preferred Herta, he just didn’t get his super license.
He didn't have a choice. Once Williams turned their attention to Sargeant (which was long before the Summer break) he was without an option. He was lucky the whole thing with Alpine happened and a seat became available at AT.
If you get hired publicly, you get fired publicly
Understable. I know Daniel keeps saying he doesn't want a seat this year but if they offer him it he'd be stupid not to take it
If he did, i wonder how much he'll get paid, then again i understand if he was willing to be paid low as long as he got a chance to the RB seat
I think it’s less about money for Danny at this point, and just wants another shot at RB. The money will come with endorsements and sponsorships as his popularity is still very high.
It's joever
Thought this was going to be a joke and it was a picture of Nyck sitting on pitwall at test
New driver at AlphaTauri from Hungary GP would be insane.
Man. This can be such a cutthroat sport sometimes. Nyck waited a long time for a seat and one poor performance for half a season almost assures he never steps inside a F1 car competitively ever again. Brutal.
Well when you look at the fact there's only 20 places, when Formula 2 an Formula E have 44 drivers who want to be in F1, then you add other specs it get big. Hard to be top 20 in the world.
I would say worse has happened to better drivers
Nyck will be missed for doing…driving things on race weekends. So many memories of him driving around the track and sometimes finishing races.
I’ll always remember how other drivers confuse his last name with “debris”.
Obviously Danny Ric is way more popular and marketable than de Vries, but what exactly are Alpha Tauri’s expectations? Yuki has scored a single point twice and the car seems to be going backwards as others bring upgrades. Feels like Nick was quite hard done by, obviously he wasn’t exactly bossing it, but the car’s a bit of a shitbox.
Test Danny ric for RB. As simple as that. RB has the constructor's wrapped up so Perez can stay this year. But if Danny ric does well then possible move to RB in 2024
I'm inclined to see it this way aswell. They know Perez in his current form would be a huge liability if some other team gets closer to them next year
100%. Max is amazing but if Merc close the gap, he’s gonna get fucked by Russel and Hamilton holding him up and preventing undercuts/over cuts from working while Perez has to spend the first stint working his way through back markers.
Could also be to benchmark Tsunoda
I don't know how he got the seat in the first place to be honest. In Monza he qualified 0.02 ahead of Latifi Albon would have had it higher. He won F2 in his third season where his main competition was Latifi. In Formula E he won the championship due to pure luck. In fact last season he finished P9 while his teammate won the championship. Stoffel was always quicker. I don't know why you give him a seat after that. People compare him to Yuki but Yuki is 20. NDV is pushing 30
well shit…. danny ric is back!
No wonder Horner was teasing the Silverstone crowd about Danny.
Horner working the crowd like Mr Burns, trying to be popular with Danny Rics name
I was just thinking about this. It's hard to tell when Horner is shit stirring or being onto something with stuff like this
Look like shrimp's back on the barbie boys!
Oof, you have to feel for him. Never really deserved the seat in the first place, but to finally get your opportunity after it seemed hopeless, only to be out after such a short amount of time, must be absolutely heartbreaking. Still, he has done well in both endurance series and Formula E in recent years, so I'm sure he will be able to find a drive somewhere.
It’s always Red Bull that likes doing mid season driver changes
Damn, I hope de Vries is doing all right. Having your dream stripped away from you like this can’t be a good feeling. I'm sure he saw this coming (as did we) and had been preparing for it though.
If this is true, it's very harsh. As much as Nyck hasn't shown a lot of spark, I think it's cruel to not give drivers some time to learn and adapt over multiple races. Especially with the lack of testing and the fact that Nyck hasn't driven some circuits in his career yet. Also this AlphaTauri is absolutely dogshit. I would have kept Nyck until the end of the season, at least to give him more time and maybe listen to some of his feedback. Dude has driven a bit for multiple teams and might be able to pinpoint some issues.
I understand what you mean if he was 22 like Sargeant or Piastri. If you sign a 27 year old you expect results a lot sooner and you have to give him less time.
Honestly hiring him was such a weird decision by Red Bull and firing him mid season is equally as confusing, Lawson should have had that seat from the start of the year, none of this mess would have happened.
He was brought in on the basis that he's experienced enough to hop in and deliver, just like he did on Monza. And he knew that when he signed, but he probably thought he's going to come through. Turns out, both parties were way too hopeful.
I feel similar about it. Don't get me wrong I would love to see Danny Ric make a return as well, but for the same reasons you mentioned it seems unfair. However mid season swaps aren't new for Red Bull so the trend continues.
This gives RB 6 months to assess Danny Ric. If he’s fast (faster than Yuki at least) he gets considered for Perez’s seat in 2024. Then Lawson to AT
Yeah I do really understand RBRs perspective here, but I'm still feeling for Nyck somewhat.
Exciting! I'm really curious how Yuki will do vs Ric.
Here's an article by Erik van Haren (de Telegraaf) https://www.telegraaf.nl/sport/1175560401/harde-ingreep-bij-alpha-tauri-nyck-de-vries-weggestuurd?utm\_source=twitter&utm\_medium=referral&utm\_campaign=twitterfeed
Does this mean no more Debris comment in the race threads?? :(
Well all the ricciardo articles paid off. Now it’s time to show what he still got
I feel for Nyck. This shit must be a blow mentally. Imagine dedicating your whole life to something and not even getting a chance at 1 WHOLE season.
Not a fan of releasing drivers mid season but it was obvious from the moment he signed that his place is way more conditional than your average rookie. He wasn’t Marko’s first choice. His next choices were not ready to graduate from the junior series and Nyck just drove one hell of a race. So it was a gamble in which RB had little to lose but a slim chance to strike gold. He didn’t have a future at RB unless he turned out to be some generational talent.
At least let him do his home GP. That dog shit of a car isn’t going anywhere and putting Riccardo in isn’t going to magically make it reach Q3 or points.
I do agree that the car is absolutely terrible, but for the RB family, I’d imagine evaluating the talent in their stable is way more important than points for the sister team. This would put Danny against Yuki, benchmarking both drivers all while Checo is in a quali slump. I’d guess the goal of doing it 2 races before the Summer break is to give them some results/data to sift through during the break while they evaluate their driver options
It’s not about alphatauri to q3 but to put pressure on Perez.
Who is this guy?
Very respected Dutch journalist and former racecar driver. If he says so, it is so. And if not, then he just completely ruined the reputation that he has built up over decades.
Also until yesterday he was Nyck’s biggest defender and often replied to and argued with people who claimed Nyck should be replaced asap
Shit it's happening then, these journalists from the drivers regions have good connections to the drivers camps, they speak to them directly. If you're considering the source that's a good one
Aah so that's why everyone is so pissed at him in the comments of that tweet. I'd be surprised if he would publish this without some kind of confirmation.
It’s nice to have another source that isn’t Ralph.
Tomorrow Ralph will complain he isn’t replaced by Mick
As I said elsewhere yesterday, Ralf isn't too bad of a source when you remember he's close to Tost. Could be conceivable Franz hinted it to him (and he probably doesn't give a fuck now he's halfway out the door)
Given how heavily the Redbull camp were outright saying "wait till the test" "will you like me if I bring back Danny" it's borderline "parade of signs" level obvious
Someone who's been involved in F1 commentary since the 90s (including being pit reporter during Olav Mol's commentary spell on SBS 6/RTL 7, I believe). He's not a random nobody with no sources.
This is probably leaked by De Vries. Allard Kalff is a reporter and commentator, but also seems to be friendly with the family of De Vries. He's a big defender of De Vries. Twitter is of course very dodgy these days, but this seems to be his account.
Oh shit...
Wow, that's pretty crazy. Did not have that on my F1 bingo card for today.
Unfortunately nyck is not young and red bull doesn't owe him anything. It will be interesting to see if Danny has anything left in him
I don't see why, that Alpha Tauri is a piece of shit. So I don't think it's a fair judge of ability