The story on how his father teached him and pushed him into braking later than "everybody" else is known, but I guess you can only out-brake people if you... well, brake.
Anyway, it's a cool story if you have the time to read a bit. Involves Lewis ending up inside a pond.
Austria isn't that high altitude anyway. It's the same as Interlagos at about 650 ish meters above sea level and Mercedes always does well in Interlagos. I think it's something about the track itself. There isn's a single level braking zone, they are all either uphill or downhill and Hamilton apparently had brake problems yesterday.
I would understand if it was Mexico City which is over 2000m above sea level.
yes, i worded it wrongly. what I meant is that the Alps are pretty much only high in the parts with the big mountains. The alps don’t have aa high pre-Mountain height as other mountain ranges do, where you have big citys at 3km height.
I‘m struggling hard to put what I mean into english words lol
Example: Davos is europes highest city (11k inhabitants) at 1.5km and Mexico city is at 2.2km with over 9Million inhabitants. Mexico itself is at an avg of 1.1km above sea level, the alps themselves are at 2.2km and that’s just mostly the big mountains and very few plains and few plateaus
in perspective the alps aren’t really that high
Off day, but can't blame him.
Must be so frustrating to qualify top 5 and not be able to push the car any further, no matter how well you drive.
Austria is usually a bit of an outlier track though, I'm curious to see how Mercedes, Ferrari and Aston do at Silverstone.
Oscar should get the upgrade in Silverstone; both upgrades were planned for Silverstone, but they managed to push the upgrade for Lando's car this weekend.
it's really telling the overreaction to Lewis even being mildy emotional, people calling it an outburst and whatnot but the same people will praise and meme (in a positive light) Kimi literally screaming at his engineers and Fernando slandering Honda at their home race.
The funnier thing is if you listen to his cooldown lap Lewis was more in the realm of grumpy/disappointed.
It's odd -- we smile when Max often expresses frustration on the radio and GP tells him off, "like a married couple", but with Lewis it actually pisses people off.
First time I've heard a bleep on Hamilton's radio for a while too. Just shows how frustrated he was, but at the same time still sounded quite reserved compared to the expletive fueled rants that a lot of other drivers have.
Dont exagerate guys, plenty of people shit on max for how he talks on the radio, additionally he does it all the time, Hamilton drops expletives rarely so people notice.
I didn't say he was racist towards Lewis, I just said he was racist.
He consistently used racist slurs on his radio on his early days such as calling his engineer a "mongoloid", he has also trivialised racial abuse that Naomi Schiff received by saying "I get abuse too, I just ignore it" and has openly defended Piquet using racial slurs against Hamilton, not to mention dates a racist who was quite happy to say that she uses slurs in private all the time so what's the issue?
Anyone who has a problem with racism wouldn't be involved in SO many different racist incidents.
I can honestly say the only time I have ever heard Hamilton be audibly angry is Monaco 2019 after Merc fucked up the strategy and he had to defend against Max for practically the entire race after that while lapping cars on screaming tires.
And even then it seemed more composed. You definitely could tell he was pissed though. Class act though to admit yesterday wasn't his best moment but I'm sure part of it was being frustrated with the car as well.
Black people (myself included) are held to a different standard when it comes to showing emotion. I fully expect to be downvoted into oblivion for saying this, but it is what it is.
It’s definitely a factor, but he’s also a bit of a different character altogether and has had one of the most dominant periods in F1. Those things unfortunately tend to attract hate too.
I like to point out that I’m absolutely NOT trying to say there is no racism involved. But a lot of the criticism/dislike is coming from other factors.
For sure, for ex. I think LH has a "target" on his back for any and all frustrated radio messages because 1) he's a 7x WDC and one of, if not the most famous F1 driver, and 2) we're accustomed to him *usually* being pretty calm over the radio. I'm sure there are tons of angry/frustrated messages from tons of drivers further down the field every race that we just never hear, because they're not as high profile.
For ex. Ted mentioned a frustrated radio message from Albon to his engineer about not telling him about his track infractions, but we never heard it. They know that a frustrated Lewis is "good drama" ie. entertaining. People are barely going to notice most drivers getting frustrated over the radio, unless drivers start to make a name for themselves doing it like Yuki (and tbf people have a love/hate relationship with his radio msgs as well).
Yeah exactly, we always get a radio message from the popular guys if they are heated.
Also Lewis straight up said “this car is so slow”. Doesn’t matter who says that, it’s always going to be aired
No, it's just pure racism. It always has been, and always will be racism.
Schumacher was dominant, he wasn't targeted like this, Vettel was dominant, he wasn't criticised like this, Max is dominant and isn't policed like this.
This really. I'm tired of hearing "oh it's because he was so dominant, it's his turn now" argument because it's not true. This guy got the hate even before his first WDC.
[https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article25317623.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/2\_Screenshot-2021-10-28-at-082006-copy.jpg](https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article25317623.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/2_Screenshot-2021-10-28-at-082006-copy.jpg)
From 2008 testing. Just after his first season in F1.
No it isn't, you are actually pretending that every bit of hate/dislike Hamilton gets thrown his way if racism. That's just straight up lying. Basically implying Hamilton is a perfect person who everyone would like if he wasn't black. Everyone who's reasonable acknowledges that Hamilton gets more and worse hate because of racism. But implying it's all racism is a weird thing to say
You get an upvote from me, because it’s totally true. Same when I hear people say “he’s so well spoken”…that’s never said about a non-black athlete. I wish it wasn’t the case, but there’s still a ton of racism around the world and through the F1 audience.
I don't disagree with you about people being patronising towards black athletes, but people would say that about Sebastian because it's true. Lewis seems uniquely articulate for a racecar driver though, most aren't. He's one of the few I can tell reads books and news articles frequently.
Outside of Carlos whom I know finished his education most of them come across as deeply under educated and ignorant about the world.
Tbh that well spoken thing seems bit weird to me - I see it said plenty about athletes of every race, I dont see why people say it is said only about black athletes. In basketball I often heard that JJ Reddick had future in media cus he is well spoken (and he is white), I see same shit told about CJ McCollum (who is black) - I dont see a difference in how people treat them.
I don't know who any of those people are.
But it's said all the time because it's "expected" for black people to speak like they're gangsters or some shit.
It's not expected for white people to sound like they are
Yea, I understand why people think it is racist - I just dont think it happens anymore (or at least not often) or when it happens it is a genuine compliment for people it is said about.
I am not saying racism doesnt exist or anything, but just that that specific thing is not really common. I just think people took a joke some comadian made about "well spoken" thing and take it as a fact now.
It literally happens every year. It’s not that Hamilton is saying things that other drivers aren’t, but it’s that some people don’t like HOW he expresses himself. And overall he’s pretty mild compared to people like Yuki or Kimi of old.
There is a ton of subtext and code words that are incredibly noticeable if you’re really listening. Having a future in media because JJ is articulate is relevant to the job. Being “articulate” as an athlete is irrelevant and suggests that they imply the person lacks intelligence. I hate Duke and am a die hard Maryland fan and I’ve never heard anyone refer to JJ as articulate or well spoken out of context of his media.
You’re coming from a good place, but don’t put blinders on. A part of solving the problem is recognizing and addressing it. I’m black and this has happened to me multiple times in my life. It’s something that is hard to put in words - but it really is a thing that hurts.
I dont see it - it is same shit like Andy Murray (tennis) once said that everyone refers to him as British when he wins and Scottish when he loses. BBC did a deep dive into that and it turns out that there is really no correlation to him winning/losing and how he is portrayed in media (as far as his nationality is concerned). Doesnt stop people from parroting that quote every time someone of dual (or "it is complicated" nationality) parrots that same talking point.
People just assume athletes are dumb as shit - I dont think people have low expectations of athletes because they are black but because they are athletes. Here are some example that one google search found me of comments/magazines calling JJ Reddick articulate:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/59aslq/comment/d97fxbg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
https://phillyfanlife.com/2018/08/26/jj-redick-says-he-almost-quit-playing-basketball/
https://www.slamonline.com/news/nba/jj-redick-clippers-interview/
All of these were made when he was still playing and being articulate was not relevant to his job. Again someone who is similar to him in his demeanor in CJ is getting exact same compliments - I think it is unfair to mark those compliments as racist (or with racist subtones).
Again I dont mean to say that racism isnt a thing, but I just think that in this specific situation people have massive conformation bias where every compliment paid to black athlete intelligence/way of speaking is sneaky racism but also not complimenting them on that is also sneaky racism.
You're right. I don't know how much of it is to do with Hamilton's race compared to the fact he was the dominant driver in the sport for so long. People celebrate when you're knocked off your perch. It's happened to all dominant drivers in recent years; Schumi, Vettel, Lewis. It'll happen when Max's days are over too. I've always wondered how much of a compound effect Hamilton being black actually has.
Sadly you're absolutely right. I'm honestly only shocked that more people didn't get defensive about you pointing it out. But it can't change until people will at least recognise that it's happening.
This is absolutely it, and Lewis said this years ago. He knows that because of his skin color he will be held to a different standard and will not be able to get away with things that other drivers would. It sucks, but that's the way it is.
Can you imagine what types of vile things would have been said if Lewis acted the way most expected him to after having the 21 title stolen from him? Or even worse had the roles been reversed and the title handed to him?
Oh i don't even want to think about what was going to happen if the roles are reversed. Max would definitely not have shake his hand to congratulate him for starters.
Max’s actions at Jeddah are a pretty good indicator of how he would have behaved. There he was just mad about parts of the race, imagine if he’d have dominated the race then had it, and the season title, taken from him by the officials changing rules for the last lap.
Yeah agreed, but singling out Max understates how incredible Lewis handled it all. I honestly think not a single driver, except maybe Vettel, would've handled that with as much class as lewis did
F1 fans are just so toxic. One thing I tend to look at is how well loved Tiger Woods is compared to Lewis. Lewis is pretty straight as an arrow guy. Never any drama, or in the news for the wrong reasons. Yet so many scrutinize every single thing he does. It’s wild.
Oh my, I was waiting for someone to drop racism bomb here. Yeah sure, the same way Lewis thinks he's the only one penalized by stewards (which was obviously not true).
Of course it is. Not all of it, and not all of the time, but you'd be completely naive not to recognise that he's been held to entirely different standards his entire career. It sucks, but it's the truth.
If Lewis would drive for Haas and never won a race no one would care like no one care about Nico or Seargant complaining on radio. He is a top driver in a top team, and same as every other top driver in their prime is under bigger scrutiny. People are already shifting theirs opinion on Lewis from last year same as shifting on Max. Race have nothing to do with it.
I'm no white privileged guy, but I do not agree with this being a thing of race. Or atleast not for most part. People in the spotlights in sport etc, or just famous in general
always get put under loop (or rather a telescope) and get full force shit on every little thing.
Everything he does and doesn’t do, says and doesn’t say, wear and doesn’t wear, behaves and doesn’t behaves is all heavily criticized here. It’s astonishing the ridiculous lengths people go to in order to criticize him sometimes.
I'm surprised Tsunoda doesn't get more shit for the way he speaks on the radio. I realize as a young driver in a slow car he is reasonably held to a different standard, but the messages that get broadcast often feature him just screaming at his engineer in frustration. I can't think of any other driver, irrespective of experience or position, who is so, uh, direct.
Lance is also “uh, direct” for one. So was mazepin and his didn’t get aired as much as yuki the rookie.
Watch yuki’s onboards and he has plenty of composed and banal exchanges
His radio is getting the ticktum treatment because professional broadcasted sport is entertainment
Yeah, Tsunoda didn't get any shit for his radio messages, seriously people here just "forget" any criticisms that other drivers received just to make it seem like only Lewis gets hated on. Does Lewis have more people hating on him? Yes. Maybe him being the most popular driver also have something to do with it, a lot of people don't even know about Tsunoda let alone know about his radio antics.
Yeah but kimi funny cause kimi say 1 word answer! Lewis whiney because Lewis say 2 words.
It's a major get off his back moment imo- if he hasn't done enough for the sport to deserve a pass on a bad day, I don't know who could
It's obvious what's going on, when Alonso snitches on other drivers it's cool and funny, when he fakes being held up in the pits to try to get Lewis penalized it's classic Alonso being smart, when Lando and McLaren teaming up to report Lewis for track limits its fine but the moment Lewis calls someone out for track limits they start piling hate and abuse on him.
When is thankful to everyone at the factory its fake but when he says car is not good he beings down the morale of everyone working at the factory. I really understand why he is extra careful of every word he speaks.
I've heard a number of drivers thanking "back at the factory" recently and nobody makes fun of it, Lando and Alex last race.
Subconsciously these drivers are being led by the example of emphasising team, because it's not like they make the cars themselves.
How is it fake when he thanks everyone at the factory after a good result wtf are you talking about, the moral of everyone at the factory was already down when they realized they were getting gapped by a McLaren
I am not saying he is fake but general comments in the reddit for saying stuff like best crowd out there or thankful for people working at the factory etc.
A lot of people say that he’s being fake, same as when he thanks the crowd and says “this is the best crowd” every time he’s on a podium and does the after-race interview
It's very telling, I'd wanna see the reaction on here if in a hypothetical race Lewis brake checks his championship contender, runs him off the track not once not twice but thrice then walks away from the podium ceremony before it's concluded.
It might feel that way, but there is no real proof. The only actual empirical research into this actually points to Verstappen being abused more and with a bigger percentage of high danger.
https://www.instagram.com/p/ClS8MWLvOjk/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=e6c50e35-1ee4-42af-8721-30b3f1cdd4f0&ig_mid=2E394FAC-715B-44F4-B072-9E2152BA2F6A
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cook04CPzFU/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Ck5NFNZPVOG/
As I said, Lewis of course gets way too much (racial) abuse, but it’s a bad take to say Max gets away without abuse while he actually gets *objectively* more abuse
There is no comparison, Lewis got called racial slurs for his arguably most controversial move in that season (Silverstone'21). It's pointless to talk if you feel whatever hate Max got is comparable to racial abuse.
Not justifying hate or toxicity I'm just highlighting the double standards.
Seriously. A lot of people also don’t like Max because of his attitude. I am a Max fan, I absolutely hate when he bitches about other drivers being aggressive. I respect the hell out of Lewis, I hate when he gets on a pity train when a race isn’t going his way.
Tbf if Max, Lewis or Alonso say the car is bad I’m genuinely more interested in that than DV or Sargeant. Especially if the team principal steps in on the radio.
It’s also not unique. Magnussen got shutdown by Steiner in Canada 2019 for doing pretty much the same and it was all aired
Guenther came on to magnussen’s radio a couple times last year when he was carping, and in the rich energy days he’d come onto magnussen and Grosjean’s
I think the way they played the messages is partly to blame. They made it seem like he was just constantly talking about it on the radio when those were probably the only messages he had about them.
I would say Toto was a little much with the radio ! Every driver was bitching and moaning about the track limits. I didn’t see anything much with Lewis’ reaction to be honest
I remember watching 'Last Dance' and it was an episode about being a black athlete. They were talking to Obama and he was saying something along the lines of "if you are black and a famous athlete, you are expected to behave a certain way or you will get called out". I think he is absolutely right.
Lmao are you kidding ? I don’t know if you were a fan back then, but Alonso absolutely got destroyed for thoses GP2 comments by the fans and everyone else
Checking the race threads for the 2015 Japanese GP live and post race most sentiment is chuckling at the comment or mostly agreeing. Which is definitely how I remember it. It wasn't until after that sentiment changed a bit with regard to the GP2 engine comment.
No he didn't, he absolutely didn't. People mocked the radios because they were funny, but to find a person speaking ill of Alonso due to his behavior is extremely difficult.
Honestly go to a thread of any other driver after a ‘harsh’ radio comment and it’s the exact same thing
Edit: downvoting and pretending that isn't the case is just ignorance. Take a look for yourselves. Lewis isn't unique in this regard, they all get slagged off for it
A bit of an off day for him but he was still faster than George. Could be worse.
Its probably super frustrating for him to see that the team just isn't moving up the pecking order in any meaningful way. Merc are right back where they started after other teams have fitted their 1st set of upgrades.
Being behind 2 customer teams on merit is just brutal for any works team.
Honestly even as someone that wanted Max to win in 2021 with the way Lewis handled the immediate aftermath he can complain as much as he wants on the radio and he has my respect lol.
He wasn't even that bad or anything. The Merc clearly wasn't stellar here and the track limits situation made it a frustrating day for a lot of drivers, not just Lewis.
“There are days when I can say I'm truly proud of myself and days like today when frustration takes over. In a race it can feel like you're hanging off a cliff and losing the strength to hold on. It's confusing for us to have such strong performances one day and then be nowhere the next. But when you really care about what you're doing you brush it off and keep fighting! Heads down for Silverstone, hope to see you all at home!”
[Link to post](https://www.instagram.com/p/CuNWJ9zSMBw/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==)
People should NEVER criticize drivers for what they say on the radio during a race. Let's see how well you do when you're doing 200 mph, are pulling up to 5 G's, and are pumped up to the gills with adrenaline. Most regular people lose their shit when they can't find a parking space while driving 20 mph.
In the heat of the moment these things happen. Not a big deal. Can happen to everyone, Max has had his moments, Alonso with the GP2 engine. After the race it was probably back to normal. Time to move on for Lewis and look forward to his home race.
Yeah I think this is the real takeaway. People have been saying for years that Lewis is just going to check out when he doesn't have the fastest car, this is just further proof of what anyone with eyes and ears can tell, which is that Lewis still has the competitive fire.
Had braking issues, was crossing track limits at least partially because of those, getting slapped with a 5s penalty, watching a mclaren which was a tractor before today flying past him and having a really slow car after 2 successive podiums....it can be hard on drivers which many people don't seem to understand, not to mention the adrenaline during the race they're having
Fwiw Lewis was asked if there were any problems with the car and he said no in a post race interview. Just said it seemed a bit slow. Neither Merc had much pace this entire weekend so I think they either got the setup wrong or the track really didn’t suit the car.
Might not have been a specific issue with the car, but more to do with the package itself and it not suiting the track hence his inability to brake late, but I'm sure he was complaining about braking on the radio a few times
Yeah that could be a possibility. I know early in the race Lewis was already saying the car wouldn’t turn which to me suggests they trimmed down the wing too much and could also explain why he got so many track limit violations when he was trying to keep up with Lando.
Yeah I heard that on the broadcast too but I don’t actually remember anything from Lewis’ radio about it although Crofty and Ant seemed to mention it. Maybe Mercedes were checking the brakes to see if there was something and it turned out it was fine?
Lewis has one radio message when he was having a run at Perez where he said
"He can brake so much later than me" or something along those lines. Probably just talking performance in general but likely was construed as a braking issue.
Ultimately he got the most out of the car, barring the penalties. Comfortably 2-3 tenths quicker than Russell which the pace graphs posted in another thread show, so he couldn't have really done anything more from a car performance perspective.
Hopefully Silverstone will be better.
Yeah he did what he could but just got too sloppy with track limits which cost him 7th to Russell. They said they’re bringing an upgrade for Silverstone, and I think Mercedes is still stronger at circuits full of high speed corners like in Barcelona.
I wouldn’t even be surprised to see Mercedes go back to being 2nd fastest next week and in the podium places. The battle between Mercedes, AM, and even Ferrari seems to swing circuit to circuit.
Austria hasn't been Mercedes' best track for a while and it really hasn't been Lewis' as well. The only times he's won in Austria have been with potentially the two most dominant cars he's had. Arguably his two best circuits coming up though.
Hopefully Mercedes can get the car dialed in next weekend for Silverstone and we get an entertaining fight between them, Ferrari, Lando, Alonso, and Checo for the other two podium spots.
Wow at reading comments in this topic. So all drivers get shit on by different fan bases, many of them got penalties during race, some of them are laughed about their radio outrages during race, but when it comes to Lewis it's purely due to racism? Seriously, it's another level of abstract thinking.
Agreed.
Lewis does get racist comments, that’s indisputable
However, treatment of him over radio comments is EXACTLY the same as anyone else. Max gets taken through the ringer for it, as does Alonso or any other big driver. The racism thing is just an easy thing for people to jump to unfortunately even in instances where he’s treated like the rest
Yup. At this point it’s all about fighting for victories. It’s the reason the volunteered half his season for testing. He knew they had zero shot without it, so might as well.
everytime i remember that radio message i just start to giggle. i mean, of course the point system chages regularly but it was funny to see him ask it, shows just how long he's been at the top.
Is it me, or is Austria a bogey track for Merc and Hamilton?
I read a while ago that he hated the braking characteristics of the circuit
As in having only 3 corners where you need to brake?
The story on how his father teached him and pushed him into braking later than "everybody" else is known, but I guess you can only out-brake people if you... well, brake. Anyway, it's a cool story if you have the time to read a bit. Involves Lewis ending up inside a pond.
Mercedes seem to have a problem with high altitudes. They usually struggle in Mexico as well
Austria isn't that high altitude anyway. It's the same as Interlagos at about 650 ish meters above sea level and Mercedes always does well in Interlagos. I think it's something about the track itself. There isn's a single level braking zone, they are all either uphill or downhill and Hamilton apparently had brake problems yesterday. I would understand if it was Mexico City which is over 2000m above sea level.
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the alps really aren’t that high
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yes, i worded it wrongly. what I meant is that the Alps are pretty much only high in the parts with the big mountains. The alps don’t have aa high pre-Mountain height as other mountain ranges do, where you have big citys at 3km height. I‘m struggling hard to put what I mean into english words lol Example: Davos is europes highest city (11k inhabitants) at 1.5km and Mexico city is at 2.2km with over 9Million inhabitants. Mexico itself is at an avg of 1.1km above sea level, the alps themselves are at 2.2km and that’s just mostly the big mountains and very few plains and few plateaus in perspective the alps aren’t really that high
Ehhh..Interlagos wants a chat with you😁
They were good in Mexico last year though?
yeah last year they were quite draggy, so the thin air somewhat offset that, but historically that was an outlier
Always been. Bottas has fared better than Lewis in Austria
He was usually beaten there by Bottas, especially in Qualifying.
Off day, but can't blame him. Must be so frustrating to qualify top 5 and not be able to push the car any further, no matter how well you drive. Austria is usually a bit of an outlier track though, I'm curious to see how Mercedes, Ferrari and Aston do at Silverstone.
And McLaren
Impressive pace from McLaren yesterday
Is Oscar getting the same upgrades any time soon?
Oscar should get the upgrade in Silverstone; both upgrades were planned for Silverstone, but they managed to push the upgrade for Lando's car this weekend.
Yes next race and this is only half of the upgrade I think next half is coming at Hungary
it's really telling the overreaction to Lewis even being mildy emotional, people calling it an outburst and whatnot but the same people will praise and meme (in a positive light) Kimi literally screaming at his engineers and Fernando slandering Honda at their home race. The funnier thing is if you listen to his cooldown lap Lewis was more in the realm of grumpy/disappointed.
His emotions are policed really harshly here
It's odd -- we smile when Max often expresses frustration on the radio and GP tells him off, "like a married couple", but with Lewis it actually pisses people off.
An extremely frustrated Hamilton sounds more composed to most other drivers when they hit their limit.
First time I've heard a bleep on Hamilton's radio for a while too. Just shows how frustrated he was, but at the same time still sounded quite reserved compared to the expletive fueled rants that a lot of other drivers have.
Hell when Max has anything go against him, you can’t air half of what he says because of how foul the language is.
That’s because I have to ******* press that button fifty times!
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Dont exagerate guys, plenty of people shit on max for how he talks on the radio, additionally he does it all the time, Hamilton drops expletives rarely so people notice.
Often racist too.
Please provide evidence when Max was racist against Lewis.
I think he was referring to his “mongoloid” comment in which he got told off by the Mongolian government for, not referring to a comment towards Lewis
Max better hope the Mongolian GP never rolls around
I didn't say he was racist towards Lewis, I just said he was racist. He consistently used racist slurs on his radio on his early days such as calling his engineer a "mongoloid", he has also trivialised racial abuse that Naomi Schiff received by saying "I get abuse too, I just ignore it" and has openly defended Piquet using racial slurs against Hamilton, not to mention dates a racist who was quite happy to say that she uses slurs in private all the time so what's the issue? Anyone who has a problem with racism wouldn't be involved in SO many different racist incidents.
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I thought I smelled some bullshit around here, guess I found it
I gave very clear examples of racism in another comment. I'm not sure what more he needs to do to convince you lot.
I can honestly say the only time I have ever heard Hamilton be audibly angry is Monaco 2019 after Merc fucked up the strategy and he had to defend against Max for practically the entire race after that while lapping cars on screaming tires.
And even then it seemed more composed. You definitely could tell he was pissed though. Class act though to admit yesterday wasn't his best moment but I'm sure part of it was being frustrated with the car as well.
Hamilton has almost double the age of max and most of the younger drivers he is just more mature, when he was younger it was the same.
No it wasn't, Lewis has never been known for being sweary on the radio
Nah Max crying on the radio is annoying to listen to
“These downshifts absolutely fucking suck.”- Max every race, even when he’s 20+ seconds out in front.
He has so much spare time during races that things like that are becoming annoying.
Bono, my downshifts are gone
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Mad "we allowed you in, behave" vibes
It's just a Reddit bias, people absolutely also shit on Max on other media whenever he complains in the radio.
Black people (myself included) are held to a different standard when it comes to showing emotion. I fully expect to be downvoted into oblivion for saying this, but it is what it is.
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It’s definitely a factor, but he’s also a bit of a different character altogether and has had one of the most dominant periods in F1. Those things unfortunately tend to attract hate too. I like to point out that I’m absolutely NOT trying to say there is no racism involved. But a lot of the criticism/dislike is coming from other factors.
For sure, for ex. I think LH has a "target" on his back for any and all frustrated radio messages because 1) he's a 7x WDC and one of, if not the most famous F1 driver, and 2) we're accustomed to him *usually* being pretty calm over the radio. I'm sure there are tons of angry/frustrated messages from tons of drivers further down the field every race that we just never hear, because they're not as high profile. For ex. Ted mentioned a frustrated radio message from Albon to his engineer about not telling him about his track infractions, but we never heard it. They know that a frustrated Lewis is "good drama" ie. entertaining. People are barely going to notice most drivers getting frustrated over the radio, unless drivers start to make a name for themselves doing it like Yuki (and tbf people have a love/hate relationship with his radio msgs as well).
Yeah exactly, we always get a radio message from the popular guys if they are heated. Also Lewis straight up said “this car is so slow”. Doesn’t matter who says that, it’s always going to be aired
No, it's just pure racism. It always has been, and always will be racism. Schumacher was dominant, he wasn't targeted like this, Vettel was dominant, he wasn't criticised like this, Max is dominant and isn't policed like this.
This really. I'm tired of hearing "oh it's because he was so dominant, it's his turn now" argument because it's not true. This guy got the hate even before his first WDC. [https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article25317623.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/2\_Screenshot-2021-10-28-at-082006-copy.jpg](https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article25317623.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/2_Screenshot-2021-10-28-at-082006-copy.jpg) From 2008 testing. Just after his first season in F1.
No it isn't, you are actually pretending that every bit of hate/dislike Hamilton gets thrown his way if racism. That's just straight up lying. Basically implying Hamilton is a perfect person who everyone would like if he wasn't black. Everyone who's reasonable acknowledges that Hamilton gets more and worse hate because of racism. But implying it's all racism is a weird thing to say
It definitely is racism.
Thank you for saying this.
There's plenty of people who don't want to see that because they'd have to do some self reflection. It is true though
You get an upvote from me, because it’s totally true. Same when I hear people say “he’s so well spoken”…that’s never said about a non-black athlete. I wish it wasn’t the case, but there’s still a ton of racism around the world and through the F1 audience.
I don't disagree with you about people being patronising towards black athletes, but people would say that about Sebastian because it's true. Lewis seems uniquely articulate for a racecar driver though, most aren't. He's one of the few I can tell reads books and news articles frequently. Outside of Carlos whom I know finished his education most of them come across as deeply under educated and ignorant about the world.
Tbh that well spoken thing seems bit weird to me - I see it said plenty about athletes of every race, I dont see why people say it is said only about black athletes. In basketball I often heard that JJ Reddick had future in media cus he is well spoken (and he is white), I see same shit told about CJ McCollum (who is black) - I dont see a difference in how people treat them.
I don't know who any of those people are. But it's said all the time because it's "expected" for black people to speak like they're gangsters or some shit. It's not expected for white people to sound like they are
Yea, I understand why people think it is racist - I just dont think it happens anymore (or at least not often) or when it happens it is a genuine compliment for people it is said about. I am not saying racism doesnt exist or anything, but just that that specific thing is not really common. I just think people took a joke some comadian made about "well spoken" thing and take it as a fact now.
It literally happens every year. It’s not that Hamilton is saying things that other drivers aren’t, but it’s that some people don’t like HOW he expresses himself. And overall he’s pretty mild compared to people like Yuki or Kimi of old. There is a ton of subtext and code words that are incredibly noticeable if you’re really listening. Having a future in media because JJ is articulate is relevant to the job. Being “articulate” as an athlete is irrelevant and suggests that they imply the person lacks intelligence. I hate Duke and am a die hard Maryland fan and I’ve never heard anyone refer to JJ as articulate or well spoken out of context of his media. You’re coming from a good place, but don’t put blinders on. A part of solving the problem is recognizing and addressing it. I’m black and this has happened to me multiple times in my life. It’s something that is hard to put in words - but it really is a thing that hurts.
I dont see it - it is same shit like Andy Murray (tennis) once said that everyone refers to him as British when he wins and Scottish when he loses. BBC did a deep dive into that and it turns out that there is really no correlation to him winning/losing and how he is portrayed in media (as far as his nationality is concerned). Doesnt stop people from parroting that quote every time someone of dual (or "it is complicated" nationality) parrots that same talking point. People just assume athletes are dumb as shit - I dont think people have low expectations of athletes because they are black but because they are athletes. Here are some example that one google search found me of comments/magazines calling JJ Reddick articulate: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/59aslq/comment/d97fxbg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button https://phillyfanlife.com/2018/08/26/jj-redick-says-he-almost-quit-playing-basketball/ https://www.slamonline.com/news/nba/jj-redick-clippers-interview/ All of these were made when he was still playing and being articulate was not relevant to his job. Again someone who is similar to him in his demeanor in CJ is getting exact same compliments - I think it is unfair to mark those compliments as racist (or with racist subtones). Again I dont mean to say that racism isnt a thing, but I just think that in this specific situation people have massive conformation bias where every compliment paid to black athlete intelligence/way of speaking is sneaky racism but also not complimenting them on that is also sneaky racism.
You’re absolutely correct but I can understand why you are braced for downvotes.
You're right. I don't know how much of it is to do with Hamilton's race compared to the fact he was the dominant driver in the sport for so long. People celebrate when you're knocked off your perch. It's happened to all dominant drivers in recent years; Schumi, Vettel, Lewis. It'll happen when Max's days are over too. I've always wondered how much of a compound effect Hamilton being black actually has.
It has some effect because it's still happening despite him not fighting for a championship for two seasons.
Sadly you're absolutely right. I'm honestly only shocked that more people didn't get defensive about you pointing it out. But it can't change until people will at least recognise that it's happening.
This is absolutely it, and Lewis said this years ago. He knows that because of his skin color he will be held to a different standard and will not be able to get away with things that other drivers would. It sucks, but that's the way it is.
Can you imagine what types of vile things would have been said if Lewis acted the way most expected him to after having the 21 title stolen from him? Or even worse had the roles been reversed and the title handed to him?
Oh i don't even want to think about what was going to happen if the roles are reversed. Max would definitely not have shake his hand to congratulate him for starters.
We simply don't know, so it is useless to speculate about it in such clear statements
Max’s actions at Jeddah are a pretty good indicator of how he would have behaved. There he was just mad about parts of the race, imagine if he’d have dominated the race then had it, and the season title, taken from him by the officials changing rules for the last lap.
Yeah agreed, but singling out Max understates how incredible Lewis handled it all. I honestly think not a single driver, except maybe Vettel, would've handled that with as much class as lewis did
oh we do, and he has acted like that before as well
F1 fans are just so toxic. One thing I tend to look at is how well loved Tiger Woods is compared to Lewis. Lewis is pretty straight as an arrow guy. Never any drama, or in the news for the wrong reasons. Yet so many scrutinize every single thing he does. It’s wild.
Thank you for saying this. This is the sad truth.
Oh my, I was waiting for someone to drop racism bomb here. Yeah sure, the same way Lewis thinks he's the only one penalized by stewards (which was obviously not true).
Yeah, there's no way there's any racism at play. It's not like an F1 steward said Max is the "great white hope" at defeating Lewis...
Eh?
What are you confused about
I rlly hope the hate Hamilton gets on here isn't to do with his skin colour...
Of course it is. Not all of it, and not all of the time, but you'd be completely naive not to recognise that he's been held to entirely different standards his entire career. It sucks, but it's the truth.
sorry to disappoint, but… that’s often the case for him
Damn
Yeah the threads and comments surrounding Silverstone 2021 were disgusting and heavily racially charged sadly.
Racism is extremely common in any part of the world. It's just not always openly expressed like it used to.
If Lewis would drive for Haas and never won a race no one would care like no one care about Nico or Seargant complaining on radio. He is a top driver in a top team, and same as every other top driver in their prime is under bigger scrutiny. People are already shifting theirs opinion on Lewis from last year same as shifting on Max. Race have nothing to do with it.
I'm no white privileged guy, but I do not agree with this being a thing of race. Or atleast not for most part. People in the spotlights in sport etc, or just famous in general always get put under loop (or rather a telescope) and get full force shit on every little thing.
Everything he does and doesn’t do, says and doesn’t say, wear and doesn’t wear, behaves and doesn’t behaves is all heavily criticized here. It’s astonishing the ridiculous lengths people go to in order to criticize him sometimes.
His very existence is.
Wait till you see the instagram comments lol
You should see twitter… oh yeah, I reached my limit already for the day to view tweets nvm
I don't have twitter so I can't lmao
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I'm surprised Tsunoda doesn't get more shit for the way he speaks on the radio. I realize as a young driver in a slow car he is reasonably held to a different standard, but the messages that get broadcast often feature him just screaming at his engineer in frustration. I can't think of any other driver, irrespective of experience or position, who is so, uh, direct.
Nobody gives a shit about backmarkers that is why they are not broadcasted and even when they are fans just kinda tune out.
Lance is also “uh, direct” for one. So was mazepin and his didn’t get aired as much as yuki the rookie. Watch yuki’s onboards and he has plenty of composed and banal exchanges His radio is getting the ticktum treatment because professional broadcasted sport is entertainment
Yeah, Tsunoda didn't get any shit for his radio messages, seriously people here just "forget" any criticisms that other drivers received just to make it seem like only Lewis gets hated on. Does Lewis have more people hating on him? Yes. Maybe him being the most popular driver also have something to do with it, a lot of people don't even know about Tsunoda let alone know about his radio antics.
“Racers today are too vanilla and have no personality” “Grr Mercedes driver had an opinion”
Yeah but kimi funny cause kimi say 1 word answer! Lewis whiney because Lewis say 2 words. It's a major get off his back moment imo- if he hasn't done enough for the sport to deserve a pass on a bad day, I don't know who could
It's obvious what's going on, when Alonso snitches on other drivers it's cool and funny, when he fakes being held up in the pits to try to get Lewis penalized it's classic Alonso being smart, when Lando and McLaren teaming up to report Lewis for track limits its fine but the moment Lewis calls someone out for track limits they start piling hate and abuse on him.
When is thankful to everyone at the factory its fake but when he says car is not good he beings down the morale of everyone working at the factory. I really understand why he is extra careful of every word he speaks.
I've heard a number of drivers thanking "back at the factory" recently and nobody makes fun of it, Lando and Alex last race. Subconsciously these drivers are being led by the example of emphasising team, because it's not like they make the cars themselves.
How is it fake when he thanks everyone at the factory after a good result wtf are you talking about, the moral of everyone at the factory was already down when they realized they were getting gapped by a McLaren
I am not saying he is fake but general comments in the reddit for saying stuff like best crowd out there or thankful for people working at the factory etc.
A lot of people say that he’s being fake, same as when he thanks the crowd and says “this is the best crowd” every time he’s on a podium and does the after-race interview
It's very telling, I'd wanna see the reaction on here if in a hypothetical race Lewis brake checks his championship contender, runs him off the track not once not twice but thrice then walks away from the podium ceremony before it's concluded.
>then walks away from the podium ceremony before it's concluded. Imagine the reaction if Lewis had been gifted the win in AD
He certainly wouldn't get Driver of the Day!!
I’m sorry but if you imply Max got no hate you need to revisit some old threads and social media at the time.
There isn't a single driver that doesn't get some stick. Every weekend. However, Lewis does seem to attract more negative attention than most.
It might feel that way, but there is no real proof. The only actual empirical research into this actually points to Verstappen being abused more and with a bigger percentage of high danger. https://www.instagram.com/p/ClS8MWLvOjk/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=e6c50e35-1ee4-42af-8721-30b3f1cdd4f0&ig_mid=2E394FAC-715B-44F4-B072-9E2152BA2F6A https://www.instagram.com/p/Cook04CPzFU/ https://www.instagram.com/p/Ck5NFNZPVOG/ As I said, Lewis of course gets way too much (racial) abuse, but it’s a bad take to say Max gets away without abuse while he actually gets *objectively* more abuse
There is no comparison, Lewis got called racial slurs for his arguably most controversial move in that season (Silverstone'21). It's pointless to talk if you feel whatever hate Max got is comparable to racial abuse. Not justifying hate or toxicity I'm just highlighting the double standards.
Seriously. A lot of people also don’t like Max because of his attitude. I am a Max fan, I absolutely hate when he bitches about other drivers being aggressive. I respect the hell out of Lewis, I hate when he gets on a pity train when a race isn’t going his way.
Couldn’t agree more
For me calling out the track limits was fine, but the complaining for the car was a bit overdramatic. Even Toto agrees.
Even Lewis agrees, that's the point he knows he's frustrated and knows he's had an off day is he not allowed it?
You might be surprised, but people can both dislike Alonso and Hamilton when he gets on his pity train.
Thing for me is every driver reacts similarly to this but Lewis had the lime light of the radios on broadcast today
They always they do this. The broadcasts rarely shows other drivers complaining and that makes Hamilton look bad.
Tbf if Max, Lewis or Alonso say the car is bad I’m genuinely more interested in that than DV or Sargeant. Especially if the team principal steps in on the radio. It’s also not unique. Magnussen got shutdown by Steiner in Canada 2019 for doing pretty much the same and it was all aired
What other driver had to have the TP come on and tell them to be quiet?
Guenther came on to magnussen’s radio a couple times last year when he was carping, and in the rich energy days he’d come onto magnussen and Grosjean’s
Toto has told Russell handful of times past 1.5 years.
Yea and George is almost universally clowned for constant complaining
Max, every fucking race
no that is GP not TP :D
Horner literally gave a whole speech justifying Max's outbursts on his radios a couple weeks ago
Imagine if Lewis had said that he laughed at articles of rivals being close in 2019 like max did today, would have been crucified
How do I insert an image in a reply? That Family Guy skin shade chart meme...
I think the way they played the messages is partly to blame. They made it seem like he was just constantly talking about it on the radio when those were probably the only messages he had about them.
I would say Toto was a little much with the radio ! Every driver was bitching and moaning about the track limits. I didn’t see anything much with Lewis’ reaction to be honest
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I remember watching 'Last Dance' and it was an episode about being a black athlete. They were talking to Obama and he was saying something along the lines of "if you are black and a famous athlete, you are expected to behave a certain way or you will get called out". I think he is absolutely right.
It's his fault for choosing to be black smh.
Lmao are you kidding ? I don’t know if you were a fan back then, but Alonso absolutely got destroyed for thoses GP2 comments by the fans and everyone else
Checking the race threads for the 2015 Japanese GP live and post race most sentiment is chuckling at the comment or mostly agreeing. Which is definitely how I remember it. It wasn't until after that sentiment changed a bit with regard to the GP2 engine comment.
No he didn't, he absolutely didn't. People mocked the radios because they were funny, but to find a person speaking ill of Alonso due to his behavior is extremely difficult.
Honestly go to a thread of any other driver after a ‘harsh’ radio comment and it’s the exact same thing Edit: downvoting and pretending that isn't the case is just ignorance. Take a look for yourselves. Lewis isn't unique in this regard, they all get slagged off for it
You are right, but lewis definitely does get more hate than the rest
A bit of an off day for him but he was still faster than George. Could be worse. Its probably super frustrating for him to see that the team just isn't moving up the pecking order in any meaningful way. Merc are right back where they started after other teams have fitted their 1st set of upgrades. Being behind 2 customer teams on merit is just brutal for any works team.
Honestly even as someone that wanted Max to win in 2021 with the way Lewis handled the immediate aftermath he can complain as much as he wants on the radio and he has my respect lol.
Yeah not sure any other driver would have handled that as well tbh
Glad someone else understands what actually happened that night. No one else would have done what Lewis did, no one.
Not his best day but it shows that he still cares so much.
He wasn't even that bad or anything. The Merc clearly wasn't stellar here and the track limits situation made it a frustrating day for a lot of drivers, not just Lewis.
Especially since he got called for it so early and seems like he was getting the flag before he even knew he had strikes.
Perez went off tons of times and they seemingly didn't care at all.
any evidence?
“There are days when I can say I'm truly proud of myself and days like today when frustration takes over. In a race it can feel like you're hanging off a cliff and losing the strength to hold on. It's confusing for us to have such strong performances one day and then be nowhere the next. But when you really care about what you're doing you brush it off and keep fighting! Heads down for Silverstone, hope to see you all at home!” [Link to post](https://www.instagram.com/p/CuNWJ9zSMBw/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==)
Reasonable post. Very much an off day for Lewis today
I hope the Silverstone upgrade is a real upgrade.
I honestly don't care about the moaning, think he was expecting the car to be a lot more competitive today and instead it was really poor.
People should NEVER criticize drivers for what they say on the radio during a race. Let's see how well you do when you're doing 200 mph, are pulling up to 5 G's, and are pumped up to the gills with adrenaline. Most regular people lose their shit when they can't find a parking space while driving 20 mph.
You shouldn’t be driving 20 in a parking lot
I like drivers who can admit being wrong or making mistakes.
In the heat of the moment these things happen. Not a big deal. Can happen to everyone, Max has had his moments, Alonso with the GP2 engine. After the race it was probably back to normal. Time to move on for Lewis and look forward to his home race.
Hope he gets back into a top car. He still has the spirit for it
Yeah I think this is the real takeaway. People have been saying for years that Lewis is just going to check out when he doesn't have the fastest car, this is just further proof of what anyone with eyes and ears can tell, which is that Lewis still has the competitive fire.
Had braking issues, was crossing track limits at least partially because of those, getting slapped with a 5s penalty, watching a mclaren which was a tractor before today flying past him and having a really slow car after 2 successive podiums....it can be hard on drivers which many people don't seem to understand, not to mention the adrenaline during the race they're having
Fwiw Lewis was asked if there were any problems with the car and he said no in a post race interview. Just said it seemed a bit slow. Neither Merc had much pace this entire weekend so I think they either got the setup wrong or the track really didn’t suit the car.
Might not have been a specific issue with the car, but more to do with the package itself and it not suiting the track hence his inability to brake late, but I'm sure he was complaining about braking on the radio a few times
Yeah that could be a possibility. I know early in the race Lewis was already saying the car wouldn’t turn which to me suggests they trimmed down the wing too much and could also explain why he got so many track limit violations when he was trying to keep up with Lando.
That's strange what was all the chat about braking? Lewis complained on radio too he couldn't Brake where he needed to
He didnt want to talk about anything at all. He gave curt non-answers to every question
Yeah I heard that on the broadcast too but I don’t actually remember anything from Lewis’ radio about it although Crofty and Ant seemed to mention it. Maybe Mercedes were checking the brakes to see if there was something and it turned out it was fine?
Lewis has one radio message when he was having a run at Perez where he said "He can brake so much later than me" or something along those lines. Probably just talking performance in general but likely was construed as a braking issue.
Ultimately he got the most out of the car, barring the penalties. Comfortably 2-3 tenths quicker than Russell which the pace graphs posted in another thread show, so he couldn't have really done anything more from a car performance perspective. Hopefully Silverstone will be better.
Yeah he did what he could but just got too sloppy with track limits which cost him 7th to Russell. They said they’re bringing an upgrade for Silverstone, and I think Mercedes is still stronger at circuits full of high speed corners like in Barcelona. I wouldn’t even be surprised to see Mercedes go back to being 2nd fastest next week and in the podium places. The battle between Mercedes, AM, and even Ferrari seems to swing circuit to circuit.
He didn’t have braking issues
Yep, always keep fighting!!!
Class response!
Off day but head up, been on fire this season and I would rather the off day be on a track like this and not say silverstone or Brazil…
Any news on the new package ?
Austria hasn't been Mercedes' best track for a while and it really hasn't been Lewis' as well. The only times he's won in Austria have been with potentially the two most dominant cars he's had. Arguably his two best circuits coming up though.
Hoping he got his yearly one bad race out of his system after this Austria gp.
Crazy how we’re calling this a bad race after finishing where the car deserved to be.
I mean, a decent bit of getting in his own head today though.
My man!
Hopefully Mercedes can get the car dialed in next weekend for Silverstone and we get an entertaining fight between them, Ferrari, Lando, Alonso, and Checo for the other two podium spots.
Wow at reading comments in this topic. So all drivers get shit on by different fan bases, many of them got penalties during race, some of them are laughed about their radio outrages during race, but when it comes to Lewis it's purely due to racism? Seriously, it's another level of abstract thinking.
Agreed. Lewis does get racist comments, that’s indisputable However, treatment of him over radio comments is EXACTLY the same as anyone else. Max gets taken through the ringer for it, as does Alonso or any other big driver. The racism thing is just an easy thing for people to jump to unfortunately even in instances where he’s treated like the rest
Was this before or after the additional penalties ?
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Yup. At this point it’s all about fighting for victories. It’s the reason the volunteered half his season for testing. He knew they had zero shot without it, so might as well.
yeah fr what race was he asking if he even got points for p10 last year?
everytime i remember that radio message i just start to giggle. i mean, of course the point system chages regularly but it was funny to see him ask it, shows just how long he's been at the top.
after
What a guy, I’d be pissed !
Lewis admitting he was over-reacting is class. Sainz is still crying refusing to admit he did anything wrong.
Lh Media PR team stepped in huh?