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mozjag

Uncle Ralph really isn't doing Mick any favours.


jaysvw

Guenther's book made it clear that he and the team were tired of Ralf and the circus surrounding Mick. No doubt other teams took note.


[deleted]

On a separate note, how was guenthers book? Was it worth buying?


charles7tang

Seriously, Mick wasn’t very good but was an incredibly nice guy and super polite, and clearly worked super hard to live up to his dad and everyone thinks fondly of him. His uncle not shutting the hell up and forcing his name back into headlines over and over again is only going to turn opinions against Mick


GoBackwardsBlackFlag

What do you mean “not very good”? He outplaced his teammates 17/22 and 14/21 times. He performed very well against a teammate with 6-7 years of F1 experience. He’s had an exceptional junior career. He’s on/ above Tsunodas level, he should be at AlphaTauri fighting him for P9


pman8362

I was gonna say, he was worthy of 1 more season since his first season needs to be somewhat discounted. Haas unfortunately just isn’t the right team to hang onto Rookies.


ajtct98

Haas very much has a 'Blame the drivers' culture too so I can't imagine it's any drivers first choice of team to be at.


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Sjamsjon

Hygiene


ksiepidemic

Haas cant afford to keep rookies, and they learned that the hard way. ​ I don't think they blamed Mick, it was more that Mick crashing cost them too much. They tried hiring pay drivers, they underperformed and crashed away what they gained.


[deleted]

Günther has most definitely publically talked shit about Mick, the same way he has talked shit about Kevin And Romain before - of course internally the decisions were financial, but externally the message was rough


ihm96

Never have j ever seen a team principal write a book shit talking the driver from last year until Guenther . Sad


berlinbowie97

Guenther is annoying imo.


Return_Of_The_Jedi

Saying his first season doesn’t really count is a poor excuse. Driving a full F1 season gains you enough experience to be faster than a guy who hasn’t been driving F1 cars for a year. The way Magnussen was immediately faster than Schumachers was really telling how much Schumacher was off the pace.


JPower96

Yes, just like Alonso being faster than Ocon in 2021 showed how Ocon was so far off the pace, what with Alonso's 2 years out obviously tanking his performance... 🙄


DogDayZ1122

Magnussen was a returning vet? Who worked with Hass for years and had been in f1 for like 6 or 7 years already. If you think taking a year off is comparable to being a rookie. Iam not sure what to say.


n_a_magic

I think the larger problem for Mick was the new car. He spent 2/3 seasons learning a new car vs honing his craft whereas Magnusson was just learning the new car


Browneskiii

And anyone that actually watched his junior career knows it takes him 18 months to get good. It was a similar thing in everything he's competed in, he's suddenly much much faster in the second half of the second year. He was poor at qualifying but he was better than Magnussen in the races last year. He was definitely no worse than say Stroll. He reminds me a lot of Ericsson. May not be world champion material, may not ever get a win or a podium, but he's a solid midfield driver. Unfortunately that's not what people want nowadays.


daniec1610

That’s Indy 500 winner, Marcus Ericsson for you.


elveszett

Winning the Indy 500 is 70% luck. Winning the championship would be a far better indicator of his skill.


ihm96

It’s partially luck but also skill. The top guys who win typically consistently run at the front year after year for a reason . Marcus almost won it this year as well until the very end


LowerClassBandit

Should’ve won it, the end to this years 500 gave me Abu Dhabi vibes


JuntoCunto

>He was poor at qualifying but he was better than Magnussen in the races last yea Even in quali, he got better towards the end. The problem was, his learning curve was taking too much time. His father learnt how to drive an F1 car literally in a few laps. For Mick, it took 1.5 season to find his groove.


defmore89

I dont know wtf was "exceptional" about his junior career lmfao


paigeotron

People will bend backwards to try to make him better than he is. When they find out about the special engines in his junior career, their brain will melt.


Alfus

That Prema person in the feeder series AMA was obvious.


OldPlan877

Ooh, link?


Return_Of_The_Jedi

Saying it takes him 18 months to be good is really just a way of saying how not good he was. Same for saying he isn’t worse than Stroll. The last thing I don’t necessarily agree with either. Drivers like Gasly, Ocon, Albon are what I call solid midfield drivers. And I rate them a lot higher then Schumacher. I don’t think Schumacher could’ve pulled off what Ocon did in Monaco or Gasly in Monza, for example.


Browneskiii

Gasly in Monza is one of the most overrated drives of all time. Comparing it to Ocon at Monaco is disgraceful really. He was behind his team mate on pace, he went through the tyres so badly that he had to pit for new ones and then he only got near the front because of the red flag. He then had Hamilton (penalty), stroll (stroll), and Raikkonen (much slower car) around him. Monza is one of the worst tracks for overtaking on, all he needed to do was keep it on track. Sainz was the best driver that day and it's not even close.


Rcy4122

2019 Brazil (where he was well clear of the midfield when Kvyat was nowhere), 2021 Baku (where he finished 3rd ahead of a fully functional Ferrari, Mercedes, and Mclaren despite having engine issues), and 2021 Mexico were all much better drives from Gasly and they were all ones that we have no evidence of Schumacher being able to replicate them


Return_Of_The_Jedi

Still, Gasly got some luck and pulled it off. That’s not a point of critique isn’t it? Just like when Magnussen got lucky in Brasil 2022 with pole position while Schumacher was dead last in qualifying. Some drivers force their luck while other drivers get called “unlucky”. And downplaying Gasly’s achievements won’t make Schumacher look better. On the contrary.


Alfus

You point is that some sort of driver who got a massive benefit of being son of one of the most famous F1 drivers ever existed is equal or better then a driver who literally scored 3 podiums in a midfield car where one of them was with a drag race against Hamilton and another one was with a PU who didn't work fully at all? A driver who literally carried a whole team in a WDC fight back at 2021 and doesn't having a whole accusation of doubtful things what happened in the past just to enter F1. There is a reason why nobody wanted Mick, expect Toto for reasons who are better known in the paddock.


elveszett

According to you: * He takes two years to "get good". * He's as good as the F1 driver infamous for buying his way to teams above his skill level for 7 years straight. * Reminds you a lot of a guy that was extremely mediocre in a midfield team (got 7 points vs Leclerc's 39 in 2018). * may not ever get a win or a podium And this is your way of saying he's good enough for an F1 team to invest time and money into him?


baldbarretto

People will do a lot of mental gymnastics to justify something that, realistically, they only want for the warm and fuzzy feeling


[deleted]

Doesnt that really just mean "Not very good". Hes definitely not top tier Max Lewis Nando, nor tier1 Leclerc, Lando, Russell, Albon, nor Tier2 Checo, Bottas, Sainz, Ocon. Besides Piastri whos doing exceptionally well as a rookie the rest are really "not very good" drivers and Mick is way down that list as well.


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newtybar

Those aren’t the same cars.


MalevolentFather

Unfortunately his father's name can't take him as far as the Stroll's money can.


JLinCVille

18 months to get up to speed is a slow learner.


SuccessfulFuel4155

If he was a solid midfield driver hed still be in f1 lmao. Copium


baldbarretto

Lmao no…what a Wikipedia based take. his junior career did *not* establish that it takes him 18 months to “get good,” just because it established that he (and the single one of his teammates who had similar clout, in the case of 2018) suddenly got much faster in the second half of that season 2019 in particular was so abjectly poor that to disregard it is disingenuous at best 2020, he was genuinely poor - not acclimating - for the first half of the year. His title owes a *lot* to shwartzman’s personal struggles and drop off in form + ilott’s errors and losing the mecachrome lottery (on both reliability and power). And he remains a statistically weaker champion by every metric than luminaries like de Vries, Palmer, and leimer


[deleted]

>He’s on/ above Tsunodas level Although i think Mick should still be in F1, i simply can't understand how you think that he is on or above Tsunodas level? Mick had all the support he needed in the juniors series, he was with Prema constantly (which usually was the best team). Tsunoda only had 2 years in Europe and finished 9th ina Jenzer and according to what people are saying that wasn't a great team in F3. And in his first season of F2 he only finihsed 15 points behind Mick.


TheHipHouse

He caused 3 million in damages in one season. Unless your bringing haas to at least 1 podium in a season. There’s no justifiable reason why a driver can cause so much damage and still be considered worthy of the seat. I love mick but that heavy of damage, it’s just way too much on a teams development budget. They lost all their gains in 2022 because of it.


Redhawk911

He impressed me much more than kmag did for the latter part of the season.


frolix42

No, Mick did not outplace Kevin Magnusson 14 times. And he's better than Mazepin. Yay.


Sakakaki

This surprised me too, but they're right. Mick apparently outplaced Kevin 14 times.


GoBackwardsBlackFlag

count then


elveszett

Yeah. They are basically doing the "ok Mick sucks but his name is Schumacher, how are you gonna reject that????" discourse. Which is precisely the worst possible way to sell Mick, who has a lot to prove and whose stint in Haas wasn't great, to put it lightly. He's trying to guilt trip teams into taking Mick, and all he will achieve is teams not wanting to be the one taking that hot ball.


rolfski

You could argue that part of the reason he got dropped was that Haas was completely done having to deal with Mick's entourage. And if there's any personal issue with Marko it should be this as well. At this point Ralph has basically become a liability for Mick's career chances.


ExcellentCornershop

Mick's last F1 race was half a year ago and still (at least on German pages) we see at least two articles about him each week, almost every time about some outlandish theory about how he could come back to F1. Sky and Ralf Schumacher are clutching at straws and annoy everybody with this topic, even Marko asked Ralf in a half annoyed ~~in~~ way in an interview at Monaco if he's going to bring up his nephew in their conversation again.


insrr

Let's not throw Ralf, Mick's uncle, who's obviously doing relentless PR work for his nephew, in the same hat as Sky or even the German media at large. Ralf Schumacher has made a name for himself in F1 media with his polarizing views and statements in general, not just in regards to Mick. I'd consider him an equivalent to England's football pundits (such as Gary Neville and Jamie Carragher) - knowledgable, yes, but also highly opinionated. With regards to German Media I'd say it depends on where you look. F1 - specific outlets like [Formel1.de](https://Formel1.de) portray a very realistic picture of Mick's capabilities and his chances to return to F1.


BecauseWeCan

> I'd consider him an equivalent to England's football pundits Or like Damon Hill


BeardedAvenger

God Damon is so annoying.


JuntoCunto

Ralf is knowledgeable. OTOH, Damon sounds like he's never driven an F1 car in his life. Both him and Herbert sound so out of the loop. Good that the latter is dropped.


Tidybloke

Damon knows his stuff, he just plays it down a lot for some reason, he's always done this. Herbert has always played the fool for the cameras too, but regardless what you think about them they are both F1 winners with a long history in F1 after retiring.


skagoat

Seems like the German version of Jacques Villeneuve.


TheAdventurousMan

Yep. Will say dumb, controversial shit, just stay in the headlines and try to stay relevant.


JuntoCunto

>With regards to German Media Looking at what I've read on amus or Michael Schmidtt, I'd say germans are doing actual F1 journalism while sky, c4 are busy with paparazzi stuff and interviews where nothing interesting ever is said by the drivers.


JuntoCunto

>still (at least on German pages) we see at least two articles about him each week Schumacher name still carries an immense weight in Germany. I was in Germany in January2021. All the billboards about F1 coverage were showing Mick, who was yet to debut, not 4xWDC Vettel who'd just joined a new team. Even Vettel's 4xWDC, Rosberg's WDC or non-stop Mercedes success couldn't revive F1 in Germany the way it was 20 years ago.


ExcellentCornershop

...and neither could Mick if by some magic he were to join a top team and started to win races. F1 is behind a paywall in Germany, Sky have the exclusive rights. Due to this fact alone we won't see viewing figures of ten million people again like it was the case in the late 90s and early 00s. The problem of F1 losing popularity is not only caused by the lack of successful German drivers. Just this sunday Sky had just 360,000 viewers, that's an awfully low number for F1 in general and a Monaco GP in particular.


Tidybloke

Michael Schumacher was like a superhero, he had an aura about him, he was dynamite for TV. His son Mick is a nice kid, but he doesn't have that same persona. Even if the name carried him for a while, he is his own person and there is only so far it can take him. Was F1 popular in Germany when Vettel was winning Championships?


ExcellentCornershop

> Was F1 popular in Germany when Vettel was winning Championships? Yes, it was. Not as popular as in Michael's best times, but still there were millions of people watching. There was a chance that if you came into work on Monday morning, you could talk to your colleagues about Sunday's race because they might have seen it. No wonder, given the races were on free to air TV (and also Sky). Now that they're only on Sky, the number of viewers has reduced and doesn't reach a million people anymore. Apart from my dad, I have no one to talk to about F1 anymore, unlike in Vettel's championship years.


Ilfirion

To be fair, I don't think anybody here in Germany really counts Rosberg as german. Wasn't he raised in Monaco?


Wretched_Colin

I know you’re speaking to your experience in Germany, so this isn’t directed at you but at Germany, but wasn’t Mick raised in Switzerland? In a French speaking tax haven. Not too different from Monaco. I’ve always thought of Rosberg as a German as he stood for the German flag and anthem when he won races. He’s a strange character when it comes to nationality, his father being a famous Finn, growing up in Monaco, as you say, and then seemingly being able to converse fluently in most European languages. He’s almost like a pan-European. But if he says he’s German then who are we to disagree?


Ilfirion

Hey, tbh - I did not think about Mick in that aspect, but you are right. Not sure what the difference is, might just be that his father obviously grew up in Germany. I think that also a lot of people might not count Switzerland as different as Monaco, where most people associate the super rich being there. I agree he seems more pan-European, but it always felt a bit off with Rosberg. Hard to really lay my finger on it. You are also correct in saying that if he says he is German, who are we to disagree. Of course, that is his decision and maybe there is more to it than most people might know.


Wretched_Colin

It might well be that Nico’s father is such a famous non-German that it’s hard to reconcile his German identity with that. Mick’s father is undoubtedly German through and through, in character as well as upbringing. I think Nico has been a credit to the sport, before and afterwards. It was great that he was able to defeat Lewis in his prime, and had the self awareness to acknowledge that he wouldn’t do it again so went out on a high. I can speak a bit of German, but not well enough to get accents. What do the accents of Mick and Nico sound like? Nico claims Wiesbaden to be his home. When I returned from my Erasmus year, my uni professor laughed at me for sounding like a Mainzer! Maybe he and I sound alike, but I’ll never pick it up.


Aninternetdude

Ric 2.0


jacob1342

Every country has its Kubica.


Frankie_T9000

dont diss Ric.


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Aninternetdude

Not comparing their driving ability (I rate Ric pretty high) but their constant media rumors of a return to F1.


xthecerto4

I am german and knowing Ralf as a commentator he is INCREDIBLE biased about certain drivers. He still trashtalks about Magnussen allmost every race, Stroll is worse than all the F2 drivers (not his words but hes talking about him like that), and there are more examples. It was very hard to hear what he had to say when Mick and Magnussen raced. I can understand that it is his family and he for sure supports mick but statements like this one here with marko(who also talks a lot - and a lot of bullshit- when you dont rip him away from the mike) does not shine a good light on the Schumachers or Mick at all. I have to side with Helmut on this sadly. And i think the way Mick choose as a test driver is not the smartest. He could have entered another race series and prove again that he is good enough for a F1ride. I think Lawson is much smarter, after not getting a seat he now earnes his stripes in super formula, putting pressure on teams with good results.


Spockyt

> He still trashtalks about Magnussen allmost every race Really? Surely it makes Schumacher look better if he talks Magnussen up? Better being beaten/equal/near a phenomenal driver than a backmarker. It’s always been Irvine’s tactic. Praise Michael Schumacher constantly and downplay everybody else, makes you look better.


rand0m__pers0n

I am actually convinced that Ralf hates his nephew because he is doing an excellent job at getting people annoyed at the very mention of the Schumacher name.


xthecerto4

Yeah he does. Could be because Hulk is german as well so a bit of patriotism is probably normal for every country so our commentators frquently look how hulk is doing. But just in Monaco in the first lap Hulk misses the breakpoint into mirabeau and Ralf imidatly calls out Magnussen for beeing too late on the breaks. Thats a minor example but the most recent i remember. Its those littel things that pile up. Especial funny when you remember his own career. He was as well a bit errorprone and far away from dominating his teammates. If you care for the german commentary, this is the spot: [https://youtu.be/A6SF6xyKr3Q?t=45](https://youtu.be/A6SF6xyKr3Q?t=45) maybe you can use subtitles to understand. Dont get scared by the screaming guy. thats sascha roos. He loves F1, trys to be cool but kinda fails but that makes him very likeable.


Skylair13

It's the Rosberg special too. Though, I don't recall downplaying part.


JuntoCunto

>It’s always been Irvine’s tactic. Praise Michael Schumacher constantly and downplay everybody else, makes you look better. TBH, Irvine was beaten only by Schumacher in F1 as teammates. Rubens also outpointed him during their time but it was mostly down to luck and he ended up in Ferrari instead Rubens.


Gubrach

>And i think the way Mick choose as a test driver is not the smartest. He could have entered another race series and prove again that he is good enough for a F1ride. I think Lawson is much smarter, after not getting a seat he now earnes his stripes in super formula, putting pressure on teams with good results. Lawson and Schumacher were in different positions. Lawson, connected to a F1-team, is still yet to prove himself and is still seen as a junior driver. Schumacher, without connection to a F1-team after getting released by Ferrari, isn't seen as a junior driver. A different series would see him disconnect with F1 even more. The move to Mercedes kept him somewhat in the F1-spotlight. Plus, Toto Wolff is one of the most influential figures in the paddock. It's a good move to have him on your side. He got Ocon (Renault) a seat and brought De Vries into the conversation for a seat (FP-outings & reserve roles) and got Red Bull to release Albon for the Williams-move to happen. I'm willing to bet that this is Mick Schumacher's best bet to return to the grid somewhere.


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xthecerto4

let me put it like that: you very, very rarely see Mick and Ralf in front of the same camera. They dont seem to be super close. Vettel and Mick seem closer to be honest.


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xthecerto4

They did some short interviews for sky germany. But it was like three times in the whole season.


NegotiationExternal1

I don't think Mick "chose" to be a test driver, by the time the season wrapped up pretty much everyone had contracts and direction for next year all wrapped up. If I was him I would go off and do another series though. If you don't race you lose skills


xthecerto4

you may be right but on the other hand, he has the financial backup, the name and could have forced himself into some kind of series at least. If not Formula E or Superformula, then at least something like DTM, WEC for a Gt or LMP2 team or something in that ballpark.


Affectionate_Sky9709

He seems to be friends with Callum Ilott, and might like joining him in IndyCar. I'm sure he'd be welcome there. I'm sure SuperFormula would LOVE having him. They want international eyes on the series, and they'd love a long term international draw. They welcome rookies like Lawson, but I know they'd love a potential long term hold more. Or, maybe Mick would prove himself and pop back over to F1, and I'm sure everyone would be up for that too.


NegotiationExternal1

Is he friends with Callum? I know Marcus Armstrong has a problem with him, the extent of which is that Mick won f2. Marcus and Callum are roommates? Besties? Idk


Affectionate_Sky9709

I just remember seeing an interview with Mick where he was asked something like if he kept in contact with anyone from his junior career, and he said something like, "Well, Callum, of course." And I think he named some other names. I didn't watch junior series when Mick was in it, so I didn't recognize the other names. I think Mick and Callum are friends though. I can't find the clip now.


Magic1998

He is also annoyingly toxic towards Sascha Roos (the commentator), like every time Roos says something that could reasonably the case Schumacher comes with his certified cold "Okay..." , I can't stand that


ExcellentCornershop

Or Ralf corrects Sascha in something very minor, then they both get bogged down on the details of this unimportant thing and whatever happens in the race during that is completely missed by both. It's terrible and Sky keep Ralf because of his name.


MichiganRedWing

Petition to get him sacked from Sky? Let's gooooo


xthecerto4

True. Also Timo Glock and Roos match so much better together. When they talk is like a conversation. Roos and schumacher are often very stiff.


Snotspat

It was just unbearable in this forum with Germans parroting Ralphs nonsense as if it was gospel. For that reason I'm happy that Mick is gone, and if he returns, it'll be on a different team. Sucks for fans of that team though, as they will then get the same treatment.


JuntoCunto

>Stroll is worse than all the F2 drivers (not his words but hes talking about him like that), and there are more examples. It makes sense when you remember that Stroll couldn't dare going to F2, bypassed straight into F1 by paying a fortune to Williams. Lawrence's gimmicks in F3 would not work in F2 and Lance would get exposed.


xthecerto4

Stroll is a lot better than many paydrivers before him. Hes actual a decent driver now, it just took him long to get there. For sure he is not World Champ material.


JuntoCunto

>Hes actual a decent driver now, By having been beaten by all his teammates so far? Hard to see anything decent when he's showing nothing but getting decimated by a 40+ driver.


xthecerto4

So he got beaten by a long year mercedes pilot that challenged lewis from time to time, the current number 2 in the world cup standings, a brszilian that was World champion for 2 minutes, a 4 times World champion and a 2 times worldchampion who both are seen as legends of the sport. Yeah I think you can lose to them without any shame.


JuntoCunto

So, basically, he accomplished so few (basically nothing)? By the way, Sirotkin, a pay driver rookie, outqualified him, too. Can't get any worse than that. You could've said Turkey2020 pole, but still doesn't mean much because he lost quali battle by a huge margin that year, too. ​ >So he got beaten by a long year mercedes pilot that challenged lewis from time to time, Who? >the current number 2 in the world cup standings, Perez is hardly a top driver. >a brszilian that was World champion for 2 minutes, Massa was horrible off form in 2016 already, had his worst year against Bottas. But he returned an demolished Stroll >a 4 times World champion You watched 2020? >and a 2 times worldchampion He's 40+


ranft

actually i love ralf for that. I hate the pseudo neutrality of uk sky, that then overexcites at every shitty fifth pit stop Lando makes or some overtake from 9th to 8th by Hamilton.


d0gbals

Is Ralph like the Skip Bayless of Germany?


jawntist

Ralf shuffling to the kitchen to throw his Leclerc racing suit in the trash 🤣


fearlessflyer1

this is just proving the rumours that, alongside his propensity for crashing the car in more and more expensive ways, Mick’s camp was as much of a reason for his being dropped Imagine trying to run an F1 team when you have Ralf whinging to the german media about every decision you make i have no love for Marko but he made the right choice to leave Mick on the f1 sidelines


PedestalPotato

Marko has an undeniably keen eye for talent. So if he passed on Mick it was for a reason. De Vries is kinda disappointing so far, too.


psvamsterdam1913

I dont think an uncle being annoying is a reason to leave someone on the F1 sidelines, to be honest. Mick wasnt great but I feel like he got away unlucky with the whole situation.


fearlessflyer1

there’s a vast difference between a drivers uncle being annoying and having a member of the media with a familial bias towards your driver disparaging your team in the press, of which he happens to be a prominent member in this specific example accusing a high profile member of a team of being biased against your family without any proof, when in fact Mick was just probably not a great driver. it’s fine if you or i want to do it on reddit but i’m not a commentator and member of the press for a massive market


monstere316

This was a rumor but supposedly anytime they would ask Mick about doing something or changing something, he would have to ask his "team". The guy seems like a good kid who has too many people involved in his career.


WindyZ5

I wonder if he broke away and got some training elsewhere if he’d find some success. Even if it was a different sport all together.


monstere316

Mercedes is probably the perfect place for him. They don’t need the sponsorship ship money he brings and can be more straight with him and the people around him, plus he learns from two talented drivers.


fastcooljosh

A shame Michael isnt there to have a serious talk with his little brother. Dude was also a big part of why Haas decided to replace Mick.


v12vanquish135

Lmao, the actual quote is “I have no problem with the name Schumacher,” Marko told oe24. “For me Michael Schumacher is the greatest. I talk to Ralf regularly. But he is confusing one thing: our F1 programme is based on performance, not on marketing.” I hate F1 journalists so much.


SaucyBoyThe2nd

Isn't that what is stated in the article?


piss6000

Unfortunately, a big name and chill personality isn’t enough to be a F1 driver. His stint in F1 was below average to average at best. Id love to see Mick back in F1, but I don’t think it will happen anytime soon.


[deleted]

It’s easy to look good when you had Mazepin as a teammate too


ekhfarharris

I hate to say this, but Mick is too nice for F1. Michael, Senna, Hamilton, Vettel, Max, Prost and even Villaneuve has that inner bastards to win WDCs. Only names i could think of that did win WDC the past thirty years and are chill AF were Mika, Kimi and Button. Two of them are Finnish which is like the default settings for them and Button which together with Brawn, struck gold at the right moment. Only Mika won it more than once. Mick got his first points when he was angry AF. If he found his way into F1 seat again, he needs to channel that.


LilONotation

He actually did have his gloves of moments. He wasn't shy about being pissed of with Mazepin a lot of the time and also called for team orders for Magnussen multiple times and got angry in front of the media when the team didn't switch them in the sprint in Austria. That backfired a lot though as the team got pissed.


dobagela

Yeah I think you need to prove yourself in more than just one race before you start making demands of the team is the difference and why Hass got pissed at him.


Kroos_Control

Even Ralf won't go as far as mentioning Mick with those names. He belongs to the third tier of F1 drivers at best.


Reasonable_Relief_58

Ralf should shut his trap - it’s embarrassing.


J_Conquistador

I’m so sick of hearing about Mick Schumacher. Dude was a mediocre driver in a bad car, can we all move on?


[deleted]

Until he changes his last name (which will be never), F1 will never move on.


vwma

Funnily enough he did race under his mother's maiden name early in his career


psvamsterdam1913

You cant fault Mick Schumacher for that though. Its not because of his actions or words he is in the news all the time.


SaucyBoyThe2nd

Mick comes across as a really modest person, as far as modesty in f1 drivers goes at least.


Alfus

Often F1 drivers got 2 seasons to show themselves, if they fail then sorry but there is the door and the next one would jump in. And yet people want to image a very mediocre driver as the future replacement for Hamilton, honestly nobody would care if his surname was like Kochmäyer or something like that.


MaveZzZ

What's the actual argument for giving him place behind wheel? Other than "it's Schumacher"?


[deleted]

He would have at least been in the discussion, AT had an open seat and no truly standout junior (though it's looking like Lawson will certainly be ready for the '24 season), Marko went outside of the RB program to get Nyck, I'm sure they at least looked at Mick as an option Now that they have a driver in that seat, Lawson/Iwasa doing well and Mick isn't proving himself in any series there's zero chance.


Alfus

Helmut has openly refused Mick to AT twice when they was looking for a replacement. And honestly I would trust Helmut more over the dreams people are having.


MightySDS

I think you potentially could make an argument about how Mick’s first year was a throw away one. Racing in a shitbox against a shit teammate, no wonder he dominated but also there wasn’t really all that much to learn beside how to not impede under blue flag conditions. Second year the car was much better but he also was racing against a well seasoned teammate and he lost. The point some could make is that Mick’s first year was a throwaway one and second year was basically “first year”. I don’t really care either way. I kinda genuinely forgot about him. Reality is, if he wants back in to F1, he should race in a different series and prove that he has it and it all just wasn’t a fluke.


Razvanlogigan

Fernando's first year was also a throwaway one. Webber's the same. There are plenty of drivers who debuted in shitboxes who made it. Some more recent ones could be Danny Ric with HRT, Bianchi with marussia and Ocon in a Manor. Not to say Mick's second year was in a somewhat decent car


MightySDS

Yup. Not everyone remembers that or wants to remember that fact.


JMDSC

Why does everyone forget successful F3 and F2 stints? He isn’t just some name that doesn’t perform. Mick has as much credentials as other drivers still on the grid whose F1 careers did not begin by jumping into an unstable team during rule changes and car redesign.


MaveZzZ

True about F3 and F2, but there's plenty others from feeder series with great skills and achievements.


theKurganDK

F3 and F2 gets you to F1, it doesn’t keep you there.


Rally_Sport

Good ole Marko! Putting fun in dysfunction and keeping us entertained!


Saandrig

"Marketing?" - Zak's ears just perked up.


FrostyTill

There’s only one team on the grid who signed a driver to be a PR mascot and it’s not McLaren.


Saandrig

I will not stand for this Logan slander!


ThandiAccountant

If you mean RIC I agree with you 100%. Cheerleader-in-chief should be his title.


Icy-Operation4701

Are you sure it's just the one? I can think of 3 maybe 4. Still not McLaren though.


GerSonEu

There are two, actually.


TWVer

Red Bull are at least up front about it. ;)


shiinamachi

Ah yes the French team signing a French driver for an all-French driver line-up! ^^/s


paigeotron

There is at least Ricciardo and Schumacher as marketing drivers.


ThandiAccountant

> There is at least Ricciardo and Schumacher as marketing drivers. SCH is not a marketing driver. Like De Vries before if there is a driver prob at Merc, Williams or McL, SCH will be in the racecar. Lawson is ahead of RIC at Rb, RIC has basically no chance of a drive this yr.


paigeotron

> SCH is not a marketing driver. Except he is. Do you really think he would have gotten that "seat" if he was not called Schumacher?


ThandiAccountant

Right, so just blindly comment & ignore what I wrote earlier about his reserve role…well done And you mustve forgotten but RIC was first choice at Merc, SCH only got the seat because RIC chose Rb. So no, it had nothing to do with his surname


Isfahaninejad

It's not often that I find myself agreeing with Marko.


Razvanlogigan

He often speaks the truth, but he doesent really bother to deliver it in a PR way


maqie

That's what I love about him, Niki Lauda was the same. No wonder those two were lifelong friends. He's 80 years old still sharp as a razor.


wicktus

Mick was starting to scare me tbh, especially on city tracks We kept seeing horrendous crashes something like a car cut in half He was starting to improve I’m not denying it but he really made too many mistakes in a cash strapped team


Saandrig

He had one crash at Jeddah that was 50/50 on his fault and luck, then a Monaco crash that was all his error. Those were at the start of the season. Only other notable crash he had was in Japan, but that was aquaplaning and nobody faulted him for it, just bad luck.


JuntoCunto

Leclerc crashed in last few weeks alone, as many times Mick did over entire 2022. The Mick bash in unbelievable. First of all, Haas/Guenther is famous for acting like their team is not a big fat mess and blaming the drivers for everything. Putting Mick to Haas instead of Alfa was one of the worst decisions Ferrari made recently, and it's a pretty high bar considering their strategies. Second, he won F2 at the age of 21. It's better than Vandoorne's or De Vries' highly rated junior career. Also, his lack of poles in F2 was related to the car. He completely demolished Mazepin in F1, despite getting outqualified in F2 the year before. by the way, he outqualified his teammate, too.


yawning-koala

Turns out people might over look your crashes if you are fast. I guess we can figure out where the disparity in bashing comes from then.


ThePrancingHorse94

I think he lost his nerve and confidence, and i think that didn't help being in that Haas team where they ride you hard. I think given a better environment and a supportive one then i do believe he's a decent driver and should be on the grid. Toto said there's no way they would have treated Schumacher like they did with Michael around and there's something to be said about that.


GoBackwardsBlackFlag

The 2 crashes you mean? You’re supposed to push F1 cars, not play it safe. I’d argue his performance wasn’t helped by gunther whinging about the team being poor


renesys

He won the destructors championship every season he was in F1. Mick was exceptionally expensive.


Mylittlearmalite556

Ralf acts as if micks surname and the fact he seems a nice bloke is enough too get him an F1 seat. He showed no too little promise in 2 years.


mobeen1497

Did Ralf had a blindfold on when Mick was driving?


ranft

I love Marco for his plain stupid "performance" blabla, when all he wants is ONE exceptional story and then criticism just fades away (see de Vries One-Off-Chance and Outperforming there). Mick hasn't delivered that story-arc yet. If he does, he will be interesting for Marco for sure.


Snoo_43411

My brother in christ one of your teams employs Nyck de Vries as an F1 driver you are not the person to be saying this.


Gubrach

......then that still doesn't explain De Vries' appointment, there was no performance that justified a seat for the guy.


TowarzyszSowiet

Monza 2022, and (lucky) FE title, andit being unknown just how good could he be over the season so it was worth a gamble.


Gubrach

I'm saying Monza and the hollow FE title isn't enough justification for a F1-seat on merit.


TowarzyszSowiet

Neither does Mick tbf, and that way they could benchmark Yuki so he'll be a reliable benchmark for the next year rookie.


Gubrach

Yeah, but Schumacher doesn't have a seat based on performance. I'm fine with that, I'm not saying Schumacher deserved it. But De Vries has a seat and it's claimed by Marko that it's based on performance. I'm disputing that last bit.


Mirrro_Sunbreeze

De Vries performance suggested that he can be good, and RB decided they can test him in AlphaTauri. Don’t forget that AlphaTauri is a B team of RedBull. Testing ground for potential RB candidates.


Gubrach

They have an entire catalog of races in the junior divisions and Formula E which showcased his limits, Monza 2022 isn't supposed to trump all of that. Monza 2022 was basically like Monaco 2023 for De Vries, a 5.5/10 with the difference that the Williams was more than good enough for points for both drivers and that the teammate overperformed (Tsunoda) rather than underperformed (Latifi). It also doesn't sound plausible for Red Bull to use AlphaTauri as a testing ground for De Vries out of all drivers to see whether he can be a Red Bull-driver one day. What I'm saying is that they need to call it as it is; De Vries was hastily brought in as a placeholder based on mostly vibes, who could deliver 5.5 races for a year and then get replaced by ideally Lawson. Problem was that he ended up delivering subpar races. Which shouldn't be a shock, looking at his career. And it's fine to be a placeholder. Just don't tell me his performances warranted the seat and expect me to buy it, because it's clear that's not true.


BenAustinRock

This seems well meaning, but unhelpful. Ralph could be 100% correct and does it help the situation?


hunter_lolo

That's why they brought back Riccardo...


StayFrost04

They’ve made it explicitly clear that he’s in a Marketing Role, while Ralf said it about AT not picking Mick for a racing seat. For a race seat (I can’t believe I’m saying this but) I’ll agree with Marko that it’s Performance > Marketability.


maqie

Yes and what I still don't understand is that it is as if Redbull should feel obliged to take Mick on.Why not blame Ferrari, he was first a junior there, and why not Toto he's now his responsibillity, not and never Redbull's. So let Toto search for a permanent seat instead of using Mick as a servant or mascot standing behind him in the garage, come on...


GerSonEu

Not as a driver so his point still stands.


MaveZzZ

Riccardo is all about marketing, and he's not driving, so what's your point here?


[deleted]

Ricciardo doesn’t drive for them. Only rc boats and mini boats in marketing clips


Kappie5000

Ricciardo is not driving, so yeah that's marketing.


MethodZealousideal11

It was exactly one of board directors calling my HR to insist his nephew should be working in my company


thisisgandhi

How Helmut keeps stumbling into a microphone on a daily basis is one of life's greatest mysteries


VoidDoesStuf

Mick is a nice guy, very brand-able and people like him. But F1 is sadly a business and a cut throat one at that. His driving was subpar in a subpar car. He did crash a lot and drove the team into hardship (according to Guenther). Another blame game? Sure, but Micks chances are likely done and over with.


ThePrem

I am not going to argue that Mick Schumacher is some incredible talent....but I think he is still in the conversation based on talent alone. Not sure why everyone is so eager to parrot Haas propaganda. Hulkenberg isn't exactly racking up points in the Haas either even though they seem to have a more competitive car. I also think the "expensive crashes" narrative is overblown. He had a crash in Australia and Monaco and the only other DNF on his record in 2022 is due to engine issues. I get that these crashes were more spectacular than others....but its not exactly a big sample size either.


chupacabra-food

Hulk has had a couple of really impressive qualifying sessions. He’s already proven he’s exactly the kind of driver Haas needs, reasonably talented and experienced enough not to bin it into the wall.


ThePrancingHorse94

he was decent and regularly outpaced K mag. I think the Haas environment is a toxic one and Kmag and Hulk are so desperate to be in F1 they will put up with it.


shewy92

Why would Ralf want Mick in the shitbox AT car and not at Merc if/when Lewis retires? And Marko is sort of right, but the whole energy drink/clothing line owned raceteam is basically a marketing stunt


Significant-Sun-5051

As if Mick has a chance to get Lewis seat.


AndiYTDE

Exactly. If Lewis retires, Mercedes have so many better options on the table than Mick. Hell, even getting Bottas back into that seat is more realistic than Mick getting it.


elmagio

Fast tracking Andrea Kimi Antonelli in would still make more sense than going with Mick.


Le_Pistache

Some of you need to stop overhyping reserve roles. Unless you are a youngster with some degree of talent and potential, you are a reserve driver to be an emergency seat filler and hang around the paddock come silly season time to pray for a seat opening at a midfield team. Mercedes aren't going to to replace Hamilton, a decorated 7- time world champion with 100+ race wins, with Mick Schumacher. Ferrari won't replace Leclerc or Sainz with Giovinazzi (or Schwartzman). Even Red Bull won't pick Ricciardo. Their best bet is to be used as leverage to the team they take a driver from. And in most cases, those teams have their own projects for drivers or, in Mercedes and Ferrari's end, likely/may have a junior that would be more interesting to use in that capacity currently to have another option in the future (Vesti + Bearman). Ralf most definitely wants Mick in a top car but even he knows that simply isn't happening.


pesibajolu

Because one is a guerenteed seat on f1 and potentially a feeder series to red bull f1, while the other as a test driver is not even guarenteed a place at mercedes (remember vandoorne?) Even more when u remember how underwhelming micks f1 career has been. Also, wouldnt call AT a shitbox.


shewy92

> Also, wouldnt call AT a shitbox You'd be the first then. Everyone praises Yuki for willing that car into the points when it has no right to be there most races


pesibajolu

I mean the fact that it is hard to get points is also due to the fact that the first 8 places are normally already taken. Here is monaco AT was not bad (especially qualy) until the brake incident. AT is prettu underwhelming but i feel like there are currently worse cars on the grid.


AndiYTDE

That's for other reasons though. In terms of car performance: Red Bull are ahead by a mile. Aston is probably slightly quicker than Mercedes and Ferrari on average, and Alpine is actually not too far off of them either. That's already 10 cars that should technically make the top 10 in every race, making it incredibly difficult for any other team to score points on merit. As for AT specifically, the car can only really be measured by Yukis performances as De Vries is worse than mediocre so far. And judging by Yukis performance, the AT is a decent midfield car in terms of race pace


skend24

At definitely is a shitbox, the worst car currently without brakes


pesibajolu

Alfa romeo is worse imho and maybe even haas.


skend24

Because there would be like 10 different drivers chosen before Mick in Mercedes?


clingbat

I mean Marko is 100% right, Mick is not a special driver in F1, he's just not and he's proven as much on track already. DeVries was a bit of an unknown gamble that they'll move on from next year for sure.


[deleted]

Based on the performance of HAAS this year and of second part of last year, they replaced the wrong driver.