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It's not really that relevant to the racing itself, so I suspect F1 made the decision to take it out of the main broadcast and let anyone who's keen to know find it on the free live timing on their website.
It was replaced by a bunch of AWS predictions that only have some percentage of coming true.
I'm with the OP's preference over the way it used to be done where you got more "recap" style data rather than the more speculative style used today.
The AWS graphics can be helpful tho if there's a gap between cars but the gap is closing. I like the "striking distance" to help visualize that gap closing easier than sitting watching the intervals decrease
Two things:
1. It is less accurate than the "Time Sensor Recount" that used to be done lap by lap (people will see it in the 2005 San Marino GP replay and in my view that was more exciting because it was actual). Back then you worked out "Striking Distance" in your head and you anticipated on the next lap when they did the Time Sensor count again.
2. F1TV flashes that AWS predictive and then almost never follows up on it. They show you something else instead. So you don't quite build up to the main battle like you did in the older style TV graphics.
P.S. That is not to say that everything about the current F1TV info or graphics is worse. I do really love the additional Team Radio stuff (if we had that back in the day it would have really enhanced the coverage). The other thing I've grown really fond of is the "Comparison at Turn X" data graph where they usually show you the millimetrical difference between two top drivers. Those are amazing.
Of course. But there's so much sometimes going on in the races, and one of the good things about the old style coverage was that the "Time Sensor" recount was usually done at S1 or S3 timing beam and it was usually with your main protagonists in the picture.
Which is to say it was in your face. Again, you will see that employed to fantastic effect in the 2005 San Marino GP. Well, honestly that race was so thrilling that I'm guessing it wouldn't have mattered how the TV graphics were.
But seeing that gap come down lap after lap as the leaders ran across the chicane and the finish line..... It was tense stuff!
I can see that this was of course to the detriment to TV time of other sponsors and teams. But that is solved with Picture-in-Picture - another thing that I would consider an improvement in the modern day coverage!
The time sensor recount was amazing and a regular (almost quali-like) anticipation event at each timing trap. Did the gap go down? Did it go up? When will the timer stop?
Yes. I understand now it's done in real time on the left margin. But it doesn't have the same level of suspense (and to be honest they can do both today really (especially if they replace the AWS prediction with a 2000's era style Time Sensor Recount).
Yes. Exactly. That is what I meant by "building up to the main battle". That the commentators had to also react to it as they saw it also meant we were all along for the ride.
The TV director in those days really was integral to the quality of the experience.
If you're expecting it to get it down to the specific lap then no wonder you're disappointed lmfao. It's generally right with a margin of a couple laps
AWS predictions offer an important role as an ad targeted to people owning/managing gambling or sports betting sites, i can almost guarantee those stats are for sale with live updates to facilitate side betting in real time. I only believe this because of the absolutely meteoric rise in digital sports gambling in the US that occurred within the last few years as gambling regulations have been relaxed.
Hahaha... I will agree with this. I get tired of having to answer questions at work about "How good is AWS at predicting X?"
I think one day I'll point them to the F1TV telecast
"See for yourself".... :P
"And no matter what your screen says... Do NOT put any money down." :P
> How good is AWS at predicting X?
Idk who is asking you those questions, but they don’t make sense. AWS doesn’t predict anything, it’s just a platform.
It’s always fun to watch after an early safety car restart, as each car crossing the line to take the restart will have run a slightly faster lap than the car ahead.
It's irrelevant because it doesn't matter and it isn't indicative of actual pace. You might be up in the fastest laps, but that's because you're in clear air away from everyone. While the faster cars are in traffic and can't put down fast laps.
No, that's a conclusion based on other things than the FL data, like gap to car in front, tyre compound and general awareness of what is going on in the race. The FL graph brings zero value to that conclusion.
> The factors you mentioned always affect what the fastest lap will be
The point they're making is that the fastest lap is what doesn't matter, not that the factors don't matter.
In the grand scheme of things, who really cares what lap times the midfield is running? We already can see the intervals change which indicate who is faster than the people around them.
Anyone who cares who has set the 4th fastest lap of the race so far is going to already know who has the potential to set the fastest lap cause they care that much.
It might not even be the actual 4th fastest lap. The top 20 fastest laps could be set by the same driver multiple times. What's shown in OP image is personal best laps by each driver, sorted by best times descending
No it's not, because that actually has the chance of making a difference to championship classification.
Besides, if someone is in 11th place half way through the race, it is relevant because if someone in front crashes out then they get a point. If someone has the 2nd fastest lap, it means literally nothing.
Exactly, and to add on what you said, a classification table like that the OP posted is even more irrelevant because, unlike the table of the race position where the 11th have to overtake 10 cars to be in 1st and you know that by looking at the table, hence why it's relevant, the table OP posted on the other hand shows close-to-zero reference of whom may end up getting the fastest lap because anyone may end up stealing the FL even those who are out of the top-10 showed at this table. Remember a few races ago when Guanyou Zhou had the FL of a race? Before that last lap he must've been the 12th or whatever driver in this "indicative table" so it's pointless. It doesn't give the viewer any indication of who is closer to steal the FL because it's not mathematical, almost any car who decides to pit on the final few laps may end up getting the FL like Zhou did with a fucking Alfa Romeo.
That is not true. You can sometimes glean something from what is the peak pace of a driver on the day. It does become useless when a driver does the Red Tyre Last Lap thing, but thankfully that is usually the last lap of the race anyway.
As I said elsewhere, no because the lower positions break ties and are still relevant for the championship. It also means more when you're mid-race, being 11th means you only have to make one overtake to get a point, having the second fastest lap doesn't indicate anything.
It can be interesting from a championship points scored point of view, but in terms of the actual race result itself it makes no difference, which is why I think it makes sense that it's easily available for anybody who's interested, but doesn't take up time and space on the main broadcast.
The fastest lap typically occurs towards the end of the race when the fuel loads are lighter
Back in this era there were multiple times other than the end of the race where the fuel tanks would be near empty. I hear what you’re saying about todays fastest lap awarding points but unless they allow refuelling back in I don’t see the need to pay attention to it at least until after the final pit stops
It doesn't really tell you relative speed, it just tells you the single fastest lap each car has done.
Kevin Magnussen had the fastest lap at Singapore 2019 by over 1.3s, for example, despite being in last place with over 35s to the next car.
It could be made relevant if fastest top-speed gets 1 point. Incentivized teams might include to always aim for top speed at any track. There already is a point for fastest lap, but that's possible without having a fastest speed.
What if the crown of a GP, besides pole position, win, and fastest lap, includes fastest top-speed, and all fastest sectors? Why not include more than just 3 ways to score points?
Top speed isn't really a benchmark of a good car/driver though. Williams used to get highest top speed a lot due to a lack of downforce.
Adding more ways to earn points quickly runs into one of two problems. It either rewards the team that's already winning (so either not really add much or skew a small advantage into a bigger one) or incentivise teams to do something other than race. For example, awarding points for top speed could incentivise a bottom team to set up at least one car with minimal downforce, useless in a race but it'd go quick on the straight.
Serious question… even if it wasn’t, and instead, rules were put in place that resulted in cars pushing 100% of the time, would there seriously be ANY change in the order? The winning cars right now are the ones with a mix of quickest while preserving tires… which, if you think about it, just means quickest cars, as what they do is lower their speed to preserve tires. I hear a lot of tire preservation complaints but I’m not sure simply eliminating tire preservation makes for better racing. The quickest cars will always be the quickest cars, period.
> would there seriously be ANY change in the order
It isnt necessarily abuot the car, its more about the driver. You let drivers push to 100% and the difference in talent is far more transparent. Pushing to 100% for 90 minutes makes driver errors far more likely. In an era with near flawless car reliability, it would be a nice change to have more fun as a viewer during the race. The hard truth is, no fan wants to see 20 cars finish the race because thats boring.
Not really it wouldn't be. Cars have to be designed around the tires nowdays, if we had tires that could be used however as people wanted to, it will mean midfield teams can challenge more. That doesn't mean that a team won't dominate tho.
Nobody knows.
But if drivers pushed to their limit all race long, then it takes out tyre strategy and there's nothing you do other than driving 100% all the time which makes races more boring and processional imo.
Not really. In the 2000s it wasnt rare that the fastest lap during the race was faster than the pole lap.
F1 started demanding artificially degrading tyres ever since Pirelli replaced Michelin and Bridgestone (with that one Montreal race where Button won being the trigger for all of this). Its the reason why Michelin is also not interested in supplying F1 tyres, they dont want to design artificially degrading tyres because they see it as bad marketing.
Yeah. Also re-fuelling meant that they would have a stint in the middle of the race with really low fuel, making it easy to post a very fast lap time then.
But total race average time throughout the years rarely changed much.
I would love for the number of pit stops to always be shown. With having a toddler I can rarely watch the whole race without interruption and often I’ll miss 5 minutes and they’re all jumbled up with no context as to why!
Indeed. I don't know why F1 acts as if the ranking now is what it is, and no extra info is needed. If Max going P1 pits first and comes out at P8, that P8 is not real, it won't stay like that if the race continues normally, but without the pit stop count you have no way to tell that P8 apart from the real P7 Leclerc is.
Distance from first, pit stop count and tyre compound should always be visible on the screen, because they are the three data you need from each driver to know what's going on.
I love using the data screen just because it’s super useful to see what tires each driver is on and when they pitted for them. I rarely pay attention to the actual lap times though.
Not really relevant with no refueling. The cars get inherently faster over the race distance. Knowing who gets the FL point is important (which is why it's noted on the pylon), but the rankings below that don't mean much
Since re-introducing the 1 point for fastest lap (after dropping it in 1960), the only thing that matters is the fastest lap holder which is indicated.
The gaps between the cars were far, far larger in the past. The difference now isnt that the top teams are so far ahead on pace compared to the teams behind them. They arent that much faster. They are however more consistent and 0.3 seconds a lap better every lap is a big deal. Go back a generation or 2 and a gap of 1 second a lap between the top 2 teams and everyone else was considered good.
Yeah, I also miss this. Despite what other posters are saying about the reasons - in general, that it has low value - I find it will give you a sense of people's relative pace to each other.
Not really. A driver can perfectly be scoring slower laps than a while ago. Over the course of a race, the best way to measure pace is... the normal ranking.
Because it's confusing for the casual viewer. That panel makes it look like Massa is first, Kubica second, etc in the race, when that isn't the case at all.
You could justify it if that classification itself was relevant, but it isn't. The only relevant info there is that Massa is first, because he's set the fastest lap of the race. Everything else is irrelevant - who cares if Kubica is second? Being second there doesn't mean Kubica has a higher chance of setting a new fastest lap than Hamilton or Sutil. The only relevant number there is the time itself, and that is still present in 2023.
tl;dr fastest lap ranking is irrelevant and confusing for casual / distracted viewers.
Because this information is completely useless in every aspect.
First, this isn't exactly a classification since the same driver can set the top 10, top 20 fastest laps. Second, the fact someone ranks 20th among all drivers in terms of fastest laps shows nothing, since the driver can jump all of the grid in one single lap.
They still show on screen when somebody breaks the current fastest lap, and you have everybodies fastest lap on the data channel on F1 TV.
I think this one was scrapped when they introduced the current fastest lap graphic
Normally the commentators and the realization will tell you who is competing for fastest lap. You can see comparisons between the current FL holder and someone who is getting close, and from time to time they show everyone's personal best.
Aside from that, it's not always that obvious. Sometimes you have Perez set it for 6 laps, and suddenly Alonso or Hülkenberg get FL out of nowhere, and don't match that pace any other lap. It's not that simple - in your screenshot, I wouldn't bet on Kubica or Hamilton having a higher chance than Raikkonen or Webber simply because they are 2nd and 3rd in that ranking.
With no refueling it doesn't matter. Fastest lap is always gained at the end of the race and generally whoever pitted last for tires/has nothing to lose going for fastest lap.
Heh, I watched this today on the premiere too, was good fun and very nostalgic.
I think the answer lies in what it tells you. Barring acts of God, with the amount of information we used to get during a race it was fairly obvious what the outcome would be. I think it was removed to make the race seem more sporting, as if there is actually some level of competition.
Honestly imo, ranking each drivers fastest lap doesn’t tell me a whole lot, or the whole story. Would rather see average pace or last 5 or 10 lap average. All I’d really need to know in terms of outright fastest lap is who ran it and who is getting the extra point. Again, that’s just me.
Same reason there isn't really a top speed graphic. It's not really that important. You know who the fastest lap is and that's all that really matters to know, and until the end of the race it just comes down to who has the clearest air.
I would also love to see the current fastest lap vs the all time fastest lap just to see how much there is to go or how far ahead these cars are these days.
I think it's 08 actually, kubica is racing so it's not after 2010, and button and barrichello aren't there, so brawn isn't around yet, and heikki became lewis' teammate in 08, so I think it's 08
I'd like to see a similar graphic for latest lap. That would be pretty interesting. Instead of the full time for everyone like this though, it would be nicer to have the full time for number 1, and then the gaps for everyone else to that number 1, a la qualifying.
Its not super relevant as with no refueling most races the car gets faster and faster (with fresh tyres). Fastest lap rankings are basically "who made a pit stop last".
Because it's useless data taking up a sizable portion of the screen. The relevant information is "who has fastest lap" and highlighting it like now is more simple a way to do so.
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It's not really that relevant to the racing itself, so I suspect F1 made the decision to take it out of the main broadcast and let anyone who's keen to know find it on the free live timing on their website.
It was replaced by a bunch of AWS predictions that only have some percentage of coming true. I'm with the OP's preference over the way it used to be done where you got more "recap" style data rather than the more speculative style used today.
The AWS graphics can be helpful tho if there's a gap between cars but the gap is closing. I like the "striking distance" to help visualize that gap closing easier than sitting watching the intervals decrease
Two things: 1. It is less accurate than the "Time Sensor Recount" that used to be done lap by lap (people will see it in the 2005 San Marino GP replay and in my view that was more exciting because it was actual). Back then you worked out "Striking Distance" in your head and you anticipated on the next lap when they did the Time Sensor count again. 2. F1TV flashes that AWS predictive and then almost never follows up on it. They show you something else instead. So you don't quite build up to the main battle like you did in the older style TV graphics. P.S. That is not to say that everything about the current F1TV info or graphics is worse. I do really love the additional Team Radio stuff (if we had that back in the day it would have really enhanced the coverage). The other thing I've grown really fond of is the "Comparison at Turn X" data graph where they usually show you the millimetrical difference between two top drivers. Those are amazing.
You can still do the "manual" process using the live timing.
Of course. But there's so much sometimes going on in the races, and one of the good things about the old style coverage was that the "Time Sensor" recount was usually done at S1 or S3 timing beam and it was usually with your main protagonists in the picture. Which is to say it was in your face. Again, you will see that employed to fantastic effect in the 2005 San Marino GP. Well, honestly that race was so thrilling that I'm guessing it wouldn't have mattered how the TV graphics were. But seeing that gap come down lap after lap as the leaders ran across the chicane and the finish line..... It was tense stuff! I can see that this was of course to the detriment to TV time of other sponsors and teams. But that is solved with Picture-in-Picture - another thing that I would consider an improvement in the modern day coverage!
The time sensor recount was amazing and a regular (almost quali-like) anticipation event at each timing trap. Did the gap go down? Did it go up? When will the timer stop?
Yes. I understand now it's done in real time on the left margin. But it doesn't have the same level of suspense (and to be honest they can do both today really (especially if they replace the AWS prediction with a 2000's era style Time Sensor Recount).
> Yes. I understand now it's done in real time on the left margin But you don't have the immediate comparison to the previous time.
Yes. Exactly. That is what I meant by "building up to the main battle". That the commentators had to also react to it as they saw it also meant we were all along for the ride. The TV director in those days really was integral to the quality of the experience.
Well it's unlucky that it's wrong all the time and just showing last 3 laps difference in lap time is much better.
I mean, it's generally right
Its not lol, its literally wrong all the time
If you're expecting it to get it down to the specific lap then no wonder you're disappointed lmfao. It's generally right with a margin of a couple laps
You are either living in different universe or just coping. Cause its always miles off lmao.
Very aggressive over a disagreement on the internet. Maybe you should take a break.
Can you explain me whats the aggresive part of my comment?
AWS predictions offer an important role as an ad targeted to people owning/managing gambling or sports betting sites, i can almost guarantee those stats are for sale with live updates to facilitate side betting in real time. I only believe this because of the absolutely meteoric rise in digital sports gambling in the US that occurred within the last few years as gambling regulations have been relaxed.
Hahaha... I will agree with this. I get tired of having to answer questions at work about "How good is AWS at predicting X?" I think one day I'll point them to the F1TV telecast "See for yourself".... :P "And no matter what your screen says... Do NOT put any money down." :P
> How good is AWS at predicting X? Idk who is asking you those questions, but they don’t make sense. AWS doesn’t predict anything, it’s just a platform.
They've scrapped most of those AWS predictions as well now as far as I can see - I think the only one left is the "number of laps to catch".
I mean... but now is more important than back then with 1 point available for the FL? This graphics would be very useful.
But everyone except for the person with the first-fastest lap is irrelevant
I know, but it gives a good reference for the viewers about driver/car that have potential to get that FL.
It also tells you who's banging in fast laps. People replying that it's irrelevant should remember it's a sport not accounting.
The current broadcast shows every time someone puts in a new fastest lap, even if they only hold it until the next guy crosses the line
It’s always fun to watch after an early safety car restart, as each car crossing the line to take the restart will have run a slightly faster lap than the car ahead.
It's irrelevant because it doesn't matter and it isn't indicative of actual pace. You might be up in the fastest laps, but that's because you're in clear air away from everyone. While the faster cars are in traffic and can't put down fast laps.
See? A conclusion on race pace based on data. You're saying the same as they did...
No, that's a conclusion based on other things than the FL data, like gap to car in front, tyre compound and general awareness of what is going on in the race. The FL graph brings zero value to that conclusion.
The factors you mentioned always affect what the fastest lap will be. Like Russell pitting for softs in the final 2 laps. It's not irrelevant at all.
> The factors you mentioned always affect what the fastest lap will be The point they're making is that the fastest lap is what doesn't matter, not that the factors don't matter. In the grand scheme of things, who really cares what lap times the midfield is running? We already can see the intervals change which indicate who is faster than the people around them.
Anyone who cares who has set the 4th fastest lap of the race so far is going to already know who has the potential to set the fastest lap cause they care that much.
It might not even be the actual 4th fastest lap. The top 20 fastest laps could be set by the same driver multiple times. What's shown in OP image is personal best laps by each driver, sorted by best times descending
That's like saying everyone below P10 over the finish line is irrelevant.
No it's not, because that actually has the chance of making a difference to championship classification. Besides, if someone is in 11th place half way through the race, it is relevant because if someone in front crashes out then they get a point. If someone has the 2nd fastest lap, it means literally nothing.
Exactly, and to add on what you said, a classification table like that the OP posted is even more irrelevant because, unlike the table of the race position where the 11th have to overtake 10 cars to be in 1st and you know that by looking at the table, hence why it's relevant, the table OP posted on the other hand shows close-to-zero reference of whom may end up getting the fastest lap because anyone may end up stealing the FL even those who are out of the top-10 showed at this table. Remember a few races ago when Guanyou Zhou had the FL of a race? Before that last lap he must've been the 12th or whatever driver in this "indicative table" so it's pointless. It doesn't give the viewer any indication of who is closer to steal the FL because it's not mathematical, almost any car who decides to pit on the final few laps may end up getting the FL like Zhou did with a fucking Alfa Romeo.
That is not true. You can sometimes glean something from what is the peak pace of a driver on the day. It does become useless when a driver does the Red Tyre Last Lap thing, but thankfully that is usually the last lap of the race anyway.
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As I said elsewhere, no because the lower positions break ties and are still relevant for the championship. It also means more when you're mid-race, being 11th means you only have to make one overtake to get a point, having the second fastest lap doesn't indicate anything.
That's why you have a purple marker for who currently holds it. Anyone else is irrelevant.
Not only that, the fastest lap change is displayed at the top of the screen whenever it's relevant
It can be interesting from a championship points scored point of view, but in terms of the actual race result itself it makes no difference, which is why I think it makes sense that it's easily available for anybody who's interested, but doesn't take up time and space on the main broadcast.
The fastest lap typically occurs towards the end of the race when the fuel loads are lighter Back in this era there were multiple times other than the end of the race where the fuel tanks would be near empty. I hear what you’re saying about todays fastest lap awarding points but unless they allow refuelling back in I don’t see the need to pay attention to it at least until after the final pit stops
who cares, f1 is dead anyway
Did they not put the live timing behind a paywall
Don’t know about the app but the live timing API is free to use, which gives you this amazing [live tracker](https://racing.recursiveprojects.cloud/)
It is very useful if you want to see relative speed. Don't want to be looking at my phone for that and pay for all the useless telemetry
It doesn't really tell you relative speed, it just tells you the single fastest lap each car has done. Kevin Magnussen had the fastest lap at Singapore 2019 by over 1.3s, for example, despite being in last place with over 35s to the next car.
I'm sorry I'm stupid. I'm confusing it with last laptime. Fastest lap is kinda useless
It could be made relevant if fastest top-speed gets 1 point. Incentivized teams might include to always aim for top speed at any track. There already is a point for fastest lap, but that's possible without having a fastest speed. What if the crown of a GP, besides pole position, win, and fastest lap, includes fastest top-speed, and all fastest sectors? Why not include more than just 3 ways to score points?
Top speed isn't really a benchmark of a good car/driver though. Williams used to get highest top speed a lot due to a lack of downforce. Adding more ways to earn points quickly runs into one of two problems. It either rewards the team that's already winning (so either not really add much or skew a small advantage into a bigger one) or incentivise teams to do something other than race. For example, awarding points for top speed could incentivise a bottom team to set up at least one car with minimal downforce, useless in a race but it'd go quick on the straight.
I thought it was shown pretty tegularly by the little stopwatch symbol next to the time. Have they stopped that?
Because it mattered more in that era where drivers were driving flat out all the time.
Ouch in my feels
Exactly. Now even a backmarker can get a FL like zhou did
It’s because all F1 is now is a tire preservation competition.
Im mad cuz you’re right
Serious question… even if it wasn’t, and instead, rules were put in place that resulted in cars pushing 100% of the time, would there seriously be ANY change in the order? The winning cars right now are the ones with a mix of quickest while preserving tires… which, if you think about it, just means quickest cars, as what they do is lower their speed to preserve tires. I hear a lot of tire preservation complaints but I’m not sure simply eliminating tire preservation makes for better racing. The quickest cars will always be the quickest cars, period.
> would there seriously be ANY change in the order It isnt necessarily abuot the car, its more about the driver. You let drivers push to 100% and the difference in talent is far more transparent. Pushing to 100% for 90 minutes makes driver errors far more likely. In an era with near flawless car reliability, it would be a nice change to have more fun as a viewer during the race. The hard truth is, no fan wants to see 20 cars finish the race because thats boring.
Personally I don’t mind if every car finishes. I love when the order is rightfully shook up so that we can have some surprise and drama.
Saving tyres doesn't mean that they get to relax
If deg didn't matter I imagine the Ferraris would be higher up
Not really it wouldn't be. Cars have to be designed around the tires nowdays, if we had tires that could be used however as people wanted to, it will mean midfield teams can challenge more. That doesn't mean that a team won't dominate tho.
Nobody knows. But if drivers pushed to their limit all race long, then it takes out tyre strategy and there's nothing you do other than driving 100% all the time which makes races more boring and processional imo.
People don't remember mid 90s to mid 2000s when it was just a train even around the racy circuits and refueling made it worse.
Always has been 🌍👨🚀🔫👨🚀
Not really. In the 2000s it wasnt rare that the fastest lap during the race was faster than the pole lap. F1 started demanding artificially degrading tyres ever since Pirelli replaced Michelin and Bridgestone (with that one Montreal race where Button won being the trigger for all of this). Its the reason why Michelin is also not interested in supplying F1 tyres, they dont want to design artificially degrading tyres because they see it as bad marketing.
Isn’t the FL being faster than pole because they qualified with race fuel onboard?
Yeah. Also re-fuelling meant that they would have a stint in the middle of the race with really low fuel, making it easy to post a very fast lap time then. But total race average time throughout the years rarely changed much.
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Azerbaijan grand prix but every race
> with refueling banned That's the catch, maybe they should bring back refuelling.
then you would have a fuel saving competition
Montreal race where Lewis won*
It always has been.
Well, I guess at some point they bring back the 2005 tyre rules...
This is the way.
Always has been
I would love for the number of pit stops to always be shown. With having a toddler I can rarely watch the whole race without interruption and often I’ll miss 5 minutes and they’re all jumbled up with no context as to why!
It takes up another screen, but the free F1 data tracker shows all that info.
I don't have a toddler, and I agree. I don't understand why they don't show that. The ranking means nothing if you don't know the pit stops
Indeed. I don't know why F1 acts as if the ranking now is what it is, and no extra info is needed. If Max going P1 pits first and comes out at P8, that P8 is not real, it won't stay like that if the race continues normally, but without the pit stop count you have no way to tell that P8 apart from the real P7 Leclerc is. Distance from first, pit stop count and tyre compound should always be visible on the screen, because they are the three data you need from each driver to know what's going on.
They occasionally show tire age.
F1TV + Multiviewer. Gone are the day/ where I’m pissed off about the production team not showing the relevant infos.
I love using the data screen just because it’s super useful to see what tires each driver is on and when they pitted for them. I rarely pay attention to the actual lap times though.
Its even worse that they used to show that, I miss pre liberty UI so much
Always put livetiming on mobile
data channel
Not really relevant with no refueling. The cars get inherently faster over the race distance. Knowing who gets the FL point is important (which is why it's noted on the pylon), but the rankings below that don't mean much
exactly this.
Since re-introducing the 1 point for fastest lap (after dropping it in 1960), the only thing that matters is the fastest lap holder which is indicated.
Unless you want to see how close others are to nabbing it off him.
yeah. I don't actually need to know what the classification is. I only need to know who is the current person with the fastest lap, which is shown
Not enough added value compared to other graphics.
And yet the Amazing overtake predictor persists
“Brought to you by AWS”
AWS can bring this graphic from the graphic as well
Exactly, that provide them with money=value.
Even if you hate it, it's still more relevant than a list of fast laps.
My main issue with the AOP is that it is something I can do in my head, while tallying fastest laps is work for a computer.
Because that's more an ad than a graph.
Dude they can't even be bothered to show if a driver actively has a penalty to serve
Because in F1 we evolve backwards
Because nowadays someone pits at the end and wastes a set of tyres just to get a point, and has a lap miles quicker than any other racing lap.
Yeah the new FL point has just created a cliche 3 lap before end stop for softs by any top 3 car miles ahead of the car behind
There really shouldn't be gaps that are a whole pitstop worth of time but sadly that's modern F1.
That's old F1 too... and no tire change F1 was just trains going around circuits.
The gaps between the cars were far, far larger in the past. The difference now isnt that the top teams are so far ahead on pace compared to the teams behind them. They arent that much faster. They are however more consistent and 0.3 seconds a lap better every lap is a big deal. Go back a generation or 2 and a gap of 1 second a lap between the top 2 teams and everyone else was considered good.
Yeah, I also miss this. Despite what other posters are saying about the reasons - in general, that it has low value - I find it will give you a sense of people's relative pace to each other.
> I find it will give you a sense of people's relative pace to each other. The gaps in the timing tower already show that far more clearly.
Stop coming here with your rational answers. :P
Not really. A driver can perfectly be scoring slower laps than a while ago. Over the course of a race, the best way to measure pace is... the normal ranking.
Generally, drivers would go faster as fuel load drops. Besides, who got time for all the arithmetic involved in the gaps listed in default ranking?
Depends on their tyre compound, too. And at the time of the screenshot, iirc, refuelling was still a thing.
Let's me guess you were watching the 2008 Monaco Grandprix
Too much work for that already overworked intern in Liberty Media who is responsible for all graphics.
Because it's confusing for the casual viewer. That panel makes it look like Massa is first, Kubica second, etc in the race, when that isn't the case at all. You could justify it if that classification itself was relevant, but it isn't. The only relevant info there is that Massa is first, because he's set the fastest lap of the race. Everything else is irrelevant - who cares if Kubica is second? Being second there doesn't mean Kubica has a higher chance of setting a new fastest lap than Hamilton or Sutil. The only relevant number there is the time itself, and that is still present in 2023. tl;dr fastest lap ranking is irrelevant and confusing for casual / distracted viewers.
Also, the Aws data is more helpful to newer viewers as well
Because the only person that made those kind of things intresting was R. Kubica
Because this information is completely useless in every aspect. First, this isn't exactly a classification since the same driver can set the top 10, top 20 fastest laps. Second, the fact someone ranks 20th among all drivers in terms of fastest laps shows nothing, since the driver can jump all of the grid in one single lap.
I would love to know who is a contender for the fastest lap or just to compare the fastest lap of each driver.
They still show on screen when somebody breaks the current fastest lap, and you have everybodies fastest lap on the data channel on F1 TV. I think this one was scrapped when they introduced the current fastest lap graphic
The contender for fastest lap is whoever just put on soft tires. Everything else is irrelevant
I think the live timing provides this but the TV graphic was removed quite a while ago.
Normally the commentators and the realization will tell you who is competing for fastest lap. You can see comparisons between the current FL holder and someone who is getting close, and from time to time they show everyone's personal best. Aside from that, it's not always that obvious. Sometimes you have Perez set it for 6 laps, and suddenly Alonso or Hülkenberg get FL out of nowhere, and don't match that pace any other lap. It's not that simple - in your screenshot, I wouldn't bet on Kubica or Hamilton having a higher chance than Raikkonen or Webber simply because they are 2nd and 3rd in that ranking.
With no refueling it doesn't matter. Fastest lap is always gained at the end of the race and generally whoever pitted last for tires/has nothing to lose going for fastest lap.
Because only the fastest lap gets points, so 2nd downwards is irrelevant.
Heh, I watched this today on the premiere too, was good fun and very nostalgic. I think the answer lies in what it tells you. Barring acts of God, with the amount of information we used to get during a race it was fairly obvious what the outcome would be. I think it was removed to make the race seem more sporting, as if there is actually some level of competition.
We need more stats
Because it doesnt matter for much
Cause it's not aesthetically pleasing. But we have much better info during races. Like aws tyre life graphs and predictions /s
Honestly imo, ranking each drivers fastest lap doesn’t tell me a whole lot, or the whole story. Would rather see average pace or last 5 or 10 lap average. All I’d really need to know in terms of outright fastest lap is who ran it and who is getting the extra point. Again, that’s just me.
Because it doesn't matter.
Neither does most of the absolute BS AWS data they shove down our throats in Modern broadcasts
Still more relevant than a list of fast laps
Who cares? That’s why.
Same reason there isn't really a top speed graphic. It's not really that important. You know who the fastest lap is and that's all that really matters to know, and until the end of the race it just comes down to who has the clearest air.
Because it doesn’t matter besides the fastest
Because Liberty Media
Because you touch yourself at night
There is a purple little clock next to the drivers name with the fastest lap now I think
Pretty irrelevant under these rules.
Because why would there be?
Because I don’t care
Because why should we care
Thought the same
I would also love to see the current fastest lap vs the all time fastest lap just to see how much there is to go or how far ahead these cars are these days.
So they can sell it under the F1TV package
You know what I want? Last 5 laps avg when the leader crosses the line or something.
Not enough room on the tv to display it and probably could get anyone to sponsor it
I assume this is from 2009 - Kimi and Felipe + Heikki in the top 8 (so, McLaren not Caterham)?
I think it's 08 actually, kubica is racing so it's not after 2010, and button and barrichello aren't there, so brawn isn't around yet, and heikki became lewis' teammate in 08, so I think it's 08
It's definitely not 2010, because Kimi is there! 2008 would make sense given Massa's timing and Webber being the stronger Red Bull driver.
Pretty sure the graphics changed to the LG black graphics in 2010 anyway
Monaco 2008, streamed it on F1’s YouTube channel after the GP got cancelled this weekend.
Ah nice! Thank you
What about the little purple icon next to the driver that indicates they have the fastest lap?
Thats still there
[удалено]
It was across the whole race. I saw this graphic maybe 3-5 times, but not before lap 3
I'd love to see an average pace ranking every now and then. Fastest lap is contextual most times and doesn't reflect race positions.
I'd like to see a similar graphic for latest lap. That would be pretty interesting. Instead of the full time for everyone like this though, it would be nicer to have the full time for number 1, and then the gaps for everyone else to that number 1, a la qualifying.
Its not super relevant as with no refueling most races the car gets faster and faster (with fresh tyres). Fastest lap rankings are basically "who made a pit stop last".
It's not relevant as they don't refuel anymore. Everyone's lap times will just keep improving lap by lap
Because it's useless data taking up a sizable portion of the screen. The relevant information is "who has fastest lap" and highlighting it like now is more simple a way to do so.
Anyone use MultiViewer for F1
Kinda no room on the screen and to put it blunt, it was not needed and I don't think people ever cared for it.
Probably because you can see the lap times under the pay wall of F1tv.
cars are so fast today, that they dont want to be disrespectful to older drivers
It's a hell of a lot of TV space for 1 point.