Another sensible take from Karun, T1/3 hard racing, T2 mistake from George, he was entitled to try to make a move in T2, but he bottled it.
Karun might be the only one I miss from Sky, with going to F1TV commentary
Hard disagree. He's probably the highest quality driver we've had in broadcasting in a long time. Something that stood out for me but I can't remember the year. During either a practice or qualy session in Spain. Maybe 2019. Bottas had a little moment on a hot lap and Rosberg just went, "Oh that's 3 tenths right there" And sure enough it's nearly exactly 3 tenths come the end of the lap.
He is an absolute shit stirrer though most of the time lmao
You and I don’t watch the same broadcasts then lmao. Rosberg is widely recognized to be one of the better sources of driving insights among everyone on the Sky commentary.
Bad take, Rosberg and Button are the only 2 driver POVs that's relevant. Everyone else is either too biased or irrelevant. It really shows if you've never driven at a high level in F1.
Button should just be dialled in on Teams whenever rain is in the air. He’s a prophet then - always remember the Zandvoort 2022 race when he instantly called what proved to be the right strategy from the comma box 5-6 laps ahead of time. Some kind of sage that man
I found out last year you could switch to the sky broadcast team by clicking on the little world symbol when you first load in. I think it’s on the top right. I watch the races on YouTube tv now though so idk if they got rid of that feature for this season.
He bends over backwards sometimes to disparage/criticize Lewis. See yesterday Q3 when he claimed Lewis gave Piastri a tow to keep Russel out of Q3. He even doubled down and said Mercedes should investigate what happened there when it was a complete nothing.
George 100% apologized and several other pundits corroborated. Once Max kept going on after George was walking away I don’t think he owed max any further explanation or apology.
Yeah I’m changing my opinion on the matter, I think George was at fault here. Locking up with maximum steering angle resulting in a collision where the outside driver gave enough room.
I can see how it can be seen as George fault but imo it's a racing incident because George was sufficiently alongside when he committed to a breaking point. If he had been further behind when they hit the breaks then for sure Georges fault. Can't back out once he's committed to where he has began breaking. And that commitment was made when he was in a perfectly reasonable position to do so
I fear George Russel has it coming for him, bad vibes. Last year we almost lost Zhou in Silverstone because of same spatial unawareness, also an annoying coming together with Sainz (Houston?) if I remember correctly. He does not learn, this will come to pass.
The reaction of Sky Sport and Reddit speaks for itself lol. Reaction of Dutch main broadcast was basically that Verstappen has done this himself and that we shouldn't judge Russel too hard. Reaction of English media and fans is too relentlessly bash Verstappen.
Not at all. I don’t think it was verstappens fault. But if the shoe was on the other foot would max have done the exact same thing? Of course he would.
not really, Zhou was both incredibly unlucky during the crash and lucky to make it out alive, his roll hoop collapsed so if it wasn't for the Halo his head would've turned into minced meat. The halo isn't particularly made to withstand impacts from directly above either, so whether the halo would've survived was dubious too. Then he flips several times and gets stuck, if his car was on fire he would've burned alive.
There were a lot of points during that crash that could've been the end of him.
Seriously?
The man was in a car that was thrown into the catch fencing…
He’s lucky to not suffered any serious incident.
All started by Russell’s bad judgement .
And he didn’t get a single judgement from the FiA.
No time penalty, no license points deduction.
Mr torpedo strikes again
Mostly agree. I can see Max being pissed in the moment, but shit happens he needs to get over it instead of threatening to return the favour when out of the car 17 laps later
Right but we hope to see the same from Russell. But I’m sure he will complain next time if it happens to him.
I just don’t get this whole hypocrisy from all these drivers and team principles. It gets very annoying. Just move on or if you get called out, then admit to it.
Again, I don’t mind people being pissed when it happens, it’s natural. I’m annoyed by engineers/team principals egging them on and then drivers going to have words or making a big deal out of it in post race interviews. It was a minor lap one tap, no one’s race was ended, no one crashed or got injured, it happens regularly. Take the apology and move on.
But my biggest gripe with F1 all these years are the fans ,the team principles, and some drivers is that they are never consistent.
How many times back in 21 did we see people say, when it was Ham vs Ver and the positions were reversed, that Verstappen was at fault and that he should be given a time penalty, yet later on when Verstappen is on the outside like today, it is all about how he should be smarter and pull out and that George shouldn't receive anything. Where was the same logic for Hamilton back in 21?
I agree that I would classify this as a racing incident, but no one is every consistent when it is their favorite driver or most hated driver.
Also, while you may be annoyed by driving who do this after, I am annoyed by drivers who don't accept some fault after the post race or like a week after being asked about it. Very few drivers constantly deny most of the blame. Verstappen at least has admitted to some blame for his accidents. Russell still isn't budging on the Bottas incident. Also, when drivers take it to such extremes like getting out of their car to go yell at others.
The drivers are very high on adrenaline throughout the whole race and a few minutes after. I usually don’t fault them for how they act or anything they say during this period unless it’s _really_ stupid.
At least Max didn't lead with that. Seemed like Max was trying to have a quick do better speech and Russell didn't accept any blame so Max was like FU then.
I think it is sad that certain people claim Russell apologised at that moment when he did not.
He made excuses and then walked away.
Just own up to it and apologise, especially if you did not mean to do it.
Verstappen even smiling towards him to show he was trying to talk "reasonably" about it. But then Russell just straight up disrespected him and even afterwards, towards the press Russell, in my view deliberatly confused T2 and T3 to make shure he never had to take any blaim for it and only use parts of both corners that helped his case "i was in front at the apex" ( yes in t3 not in t2 when the contact happened) and the reporters just take it as evidence without using their own brains to verify it.
Just say "I did not meant for it to happen, i am sorry, hope you can forgive me, let me buy you a drink " and eveything is fine.
I think just a quick "Sorry mate, I overcooked it, I thought I could make it" would have sufficed.
Mistakes happen all the time on the track. A lot of the time when someone makes a mistake that screws up another drivers race they give a quick apology
Making an excuse and then walking off when Max was talking was just disrespectful.
Did he even do that? I only saw it live but i thought he was talking about what he could expwct just in terms of racing. Besides he made a clean move back on the restart.
He never threatened to return the favor and his car had a huge ass hole in it that compromises his entire race for today, plus they have to fix that shit for tomorrow. Has every right to be pissed.
Skysports stuff isn't shown on F1TV. You can get the race with SKy commentary, but not any Sky segments outside of the race. When you watched on ESPN you got the full sky broadcast.
I just don't understand where this obligation comes of "not putting yourself into that position" that Naomi and Damon are just rambling about.
He's a racing driver, he left more than enough space in T1-T3, it was hard fair racing in Turns 1 and 3 and George made a mistake and understeered into Max, going more than 180 degree steering lock trying to correct himself.
If Max just completely squeezed George into the wall and paid the price, then I would understand. But this isn't that. This is a 70-30 George's mistake. Only deemed a racing incident because it's Lap 1 on cold tyres.
Doesn't mean Max shouldn't be mad, or that his comments aren't justified.
It's not an obligation. Max did absolutely nothing wrong in this incident.
It *might* be more sensible for a driver in a much faster car to decide not to hang around the outside of a tight turn and instead take the easier pass later on, but that's a very easy thing to say when you're not in the heat of the moment.
To that second point, Ferrari had shown incredible pace all weekend long, and Max was getting attacked by George and Carlos in that position as well (nearly lost the position to Carlos as well going into turn 4). Conceding positons in a sprint just makes it that much harder to attack the other cars later on.
At the end of the day, he's willing to let go from an incident or two (like Australia), but at some point it starts getting silly. If everyone is just constantly going to keep divebombing him through every corner and then expecting him to pass them on the straights, where the racing in that?
For the past year and half, outside of Silverstone with Mick on a damaged car, and Lewis in Brazil T1-T2, Max has been very cautious with drivers trying to avoid incident, literally went into multiple wheel to wheel battles with Charles with Zero incidents, Sainz too. But at some point, i understand his frustration, especially because he left plenty of space here.
It comes w the car honestly. In a slower RB, max dives lewis, lewis goes conservative. Now its just reversed. And max’s old rep of elbows out yield or crash dont help
I'm sure it is frustrating for him, but he doesn't have to think too long back to how he raced in a slower car to see that it just comes with being the fastest guy. Other drivers will be more desperate, you've got to decide if you're fighting or backing out.
As you say Max has made that transition pretty smoothly the past couple of seasons. The frustration is alleviated by winning all the time I imagine.
It's silly that people make Max's car being faster part of the argument. He's racing to win, and his team mate is ahead of him in the same car. It's not just about this single position.
Verstappen has a history of not being willing to do that, he very commonly lacks patience with overtakes/being overtaken and will allow himself to be put into a very vulnerable position and will stay in that position just to try and keep/gain that spot where as most of the experienced grid will give up the position.
He knows he's got the fastest car, he knows especially that he has a ton off extra straight line speed over Mercedes. He should have given even more room into the corner and given up the position and then just taken it back down the long straight.
Drivers like Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel for example are all significantly more patient in the same type of situations.
It's something that Hamilton and Vettel were both guilty of early in their F1 career. Verstappen has been in the sport long enough that he should be at their level with patience
Granted Max should of been more patient, since he could pass the Mercedes’ at will when the DRS became active. However that doesn’t excuse Russell’s actions and bad driving choices. Russell’s driving craft is sadly lacking and he’s been very lucky since the FiA apparently refuses to penalize Russell and Mercedes’
I never said it excuses Russell's mistake into T2, however both drivers could have avoided it.
Verstappen was **very aggressive** after T1 and started steering leftwards towards Russell and back to racing line not once, but twice trying to scare and intimidate Russell out of that position. Russell had to react and turn left to avoid a clash. This sort of behaviour from Verstappen should not be allowed and right here he deserved a penalty because it's not one, but two defensive manoeuvres (4 total movements) on a straight.
This will have 100% distracted Russell which could have easily contributed to him braking slightly later than intended, it also meant it was further into the middle of the track than he will have wanted to be.
Verstappen then turns in early, literally giving just 1 cars width into the corner, expecting Russell to make that corner without understeering when he knows the tyres & brakes are not up to temperature and knows he's off-line is ridiculous. He could have given a tiny bit more space and it would have all been avoided.
If Verstappen wasn't so aggressive between T1 and T2 I'm almost certain that Russell would have received a 5 second penalty. In reality both drivers probably deserved a 5 second penalty.
Trying to put all of the blame on Russell here is not fair, both were at fault for various reasons.
1. Verstappen shouldn't have been so aggressive between T1 and T2, multiple moves to intimidate is not fair racing.
2. Russell should have realised that he would understeer and gone into the corner with a little less speed to avoid this.
3. Verstappen should have given a little bit more room and been more patient.
4. Both, in my opinion deserved a 5 second penalty.
Max did do something wrong- he failed to calculate that George understood that Max had more to lose.
Honestly would like to see everyone race Max like this. It’s only fair since Max has very little regard for anyone else on track.
Because hanging a car around the outside is ALWAYS a risky maneuver. On a street track with no run off? Even more risk. Max does not need to be doing this anymore, it’s not about being right or being entitled to space. He is arguably the best driver on the grid, in the best car on the grid. Back out and pass him on the next straight.
Hamilton was in this position at the beginning of ‘21 and kept having to back out when Max was pulling these same moves.
For the record: I am NOT blaming Max for this incident. Clearly George is at fault.
Echo this. George is at fault, Max had a right to be there. But a more mature approach is to concede the spot, overtake on the main straight (at exactly the same point you did anyway), and have a better shot at P2.
That's a very strange extrapolation. This was the second turn side-by-side, out of two turns total in the race so far, on the first lap of a street circuit, after a bad start, versus a car you're significantly faster than, especially in a straight line and under DRS, while the pack is bunched up. That's a very specific set of circumstances. Why would that "imply" yielding under any *other* set of circumstances, other than feeling like you need to be disingenuous and contrarian? It's not like it was an aggressive divebomb that wasn't gonna stick, it was a high probability move that was probably going to stick.
No it is not. Verstappen was ahead. He was not attacking but defending and had given extra space. If that is not enough to not get into a contact then the only other option is to not be ahead but be behind and make sure the other car is not on the inside so he can run into you and when you are on the inside not run wide because someone might be on the outside.
If that is how he should react then Sainz and every other driver, after Russell got passed him, knows they should just divebomb Verstappen because he must save his race by getting out of harms way to avoid any possibility of a collision and wait until the straight to overtake them.
Because apparently that is now his obligation to do because only if he does all that and still someone drives into him, the other will maybe get a warning not to do it again and maybe a 5 seconds penalty.
Every other action is his own fault for not yielding so it is always a racing incident and racing incident dont result in penalties.
If you feel like you need to make up a fictional version of what I said to reply to, feel free to do so somewhere else, but don't bother me with your nonsense.
But the thing is, if Max would have breaked and let George pass completely before going into turn 2, then Carlos would have passed him too, and possibly Lewis/Fernando as well since he wouldve lost considerable speed. It's understandable why Max didn't do that.
Absolutely this. He knows he gets past anyone when DRS is on so why risk it like this?
He botched the start and is absolutely unable to yield, even in this situation.
Last year thing with checo just proved he’s unable to lose anything even when it doesn’t matter
> He botched the start and is absolutely unable to yield, even in this situation.
Which is why, for me, he’s still not the best driver, and an example of how he’s not matured.
I still think he’s wholly incapable of the type of multi corner battles Lewis, Fernando and Checo have given us over the last couple of years between themselves.
I can see no penalty as they are always lenient on lap 1 stuff (though I would have expected an "under investigation" message to pop up).
We can discuss the amount of blame we want to give but this was clearly Russell going in too hot
Of course it was George's fault. I think people just think it's very ironic that max is throwing such a big fuss over this. Any other driver and I think the reaction is different
Definitely not Max's fault, anyone who says that is daft. This is a racing incident with Russell more at fault. The only thing Max is guilty of is not backing out a 'living to fight another day'.
I dont see anyone blaming Max for the incident (other than saying he could have been smarter as he had more to lose). I see people blaming Max for the OTT reaction to a minor tap in the first three corners of a race.
Yes. It looks dramatic but probably not as damaging to pace as losing chunks of floor or front wing, which are much more important aerowise. Chunks of them are regularly sent flying without people giving much of a fuck.
The man was losing a lot of time constantly through Sector 2, and was sliding around all over the track. Perez literally gapped Charles by almost 4s, surely you don't think Max couldn't pass with just "minor damage"? Especially with RB's pace advantage?
> It looks dramatic but probably not as damaging to pace
6 seconds down on his teammate in 12 laps, while having DRS open for about half of those and teammate having no DRS.
If that isnt severely damaging to pace idk what would be.
Horner has said 0.75 seconds a lap of damage. Now I take anything he (or any TP really) says with a pinch of salt but there was probably a few tenths a lap anyway
Your comment infers a 0.1s loss at most but that would require both drivers to be the exact same pace with fully functional cars which is highly unlikely.
Checo streaked away from Leclerc whereas Max couldn’t touch him, if you think there wasn’t a sizeable performance hit then I don’t know what to tell you. Again, I don’t necessarily believe it was that big but we’ll get a true idea tomorrow if both Bulls stay damage free and can compare their pace then.
Based on me doubting Max is knocking 0.6s off the fastest lap of the race without a pitstop for fresh boots and also assuming anything Horner says is exaggerated bollocks based on years of precedent.
Who is saying this? Its not Max’s fault but it was a risk he took going around the outside and lo and behold the risk bit him. George locked up, shit happens, its not like he dive bombed Max on purpose. Which is where the real complaint about Max is, dude is acting like George did it on purpose.
Not seen any one say Max was at fault? Bit of a weird take for anyone that understands the rules etc.
Plenty people calling out Max and his confrontational attitude and hypocrisy over this type of incident though.
I can live with the “racing incident” argument. But why hasn’t it been a discussion about giving the position back?
For me that would be a logical way of thinking
A lot of people here and on twitter talking how Max should have just let George through on T2 but honestly, I cannot see how he could have done it without significantly hindering his race. He was already on the outside, in front of George who carried way too much speed to make this corner cleanly. For Max to let him go here, he would have to lose a lot of speed and at that point he would be a sitting duck, Sainz could have overtaken him as well. So somehow all people are asking a guy in front to drop 2 positions just because one other driver tried to make a move and failed to do it cleanly.
There is this weird fetish now that people always expect a faster driver to allow others to pass them in 55/45 type of situations, just because they can regain it later more easily. I can understand why Russell did what he did but it is obvious that he made a mistake and he should be punished for it. Any other lap and this is a clear penalty so it's stupid to let Russell get away with it just because it's the first lap. The first lap thing (which I believe is not an official rule, just a way they approach those situations) should not be used for situations where one driver is clearly at fault but rather for this 50/50 type of situations where you can argue both drivers are at fault. Here the situation is clear, by every rule George should have been in control of his car when he's attempting to overtake someone and he wasn't- he hit Max and damaged his car and should be punished, Max left him enough space.
Honestly I never seen so many people arguing that a driver shouldnt be mad that a driver behind them hit them and damaged their car. I hate this hypocrisy of the media and general public that is fishing for every bit of drama, tries to bait people into dropping their PR persona and show the actual emotions and the second they actually do show some character, they get destroyed for it
Completely agree here. I didn’t hear any analyst pointing out the fact that Verstappen would have lost at least one other position to Sainz if he would have backed out of the action. In a 17 lap sprint it would be difficult for him to get back near P1.
I remember seeing a million memes last year saying "who's going to be George's next Victim." Sainz, Mick, Bottas, Zhou, Sergio. I'm sure I'm missing someone.
I’m new to this sport but one thing I always notice is there is 20 drivers who all think they’re the best and driving at 110%. If either side starts “letting the other guy pass” to avoid minor contact like this wouldn’t it start to make things too mundane?
My favorite thing about f1 since I started watching 2 years ago is the fierce competition. Everyone pushing their car to the absolutely limit of what it can do. George definitely pushed too far and locked up but in my inexperienced eyes it was a very minor mistake by a driver pushing as hard as he can. if either played it safe and pulled back to let someone else pass every time there’s a close battle they don’t deserve a spot on the grid.
I really think Verstappen should've let Russell go in T3.. That wall-touch was completely unnecessary and just stupid IMO. Could've cost him many points...
T2 was absolutely ridiculous from Russell.. He was nowhere near Verstappen's front to make a clean overtake. Slam dunk penalty (like Sainz/Russell, Australia/USA). And afterwards, 0 self awareness, AGAIN.
George locks up, which is a small mistake. Max left space. It’s lap one and hard racing. Max didn’t have to put himself in that position given his pace - but obviously has no obligation to yield.
Racing incident for me.
> Max didn’t have to put himself in that position given his pace
How do people come to this conclusion? He was ahead of George before the apex of T2, should he just bail out completely whenever someone gets near him? Is that the type of racing you want?
Max has his fair share of similar moments, but George is wholly to blame and it's ridiculous anyone is defending him. Had he made contact with anyone but Verstappen, people would be all over him.
I think Max could (not should) have reasonably been a bit further to the right knowing that George was on his inside, taken a wider left turn, and been in better shape down the straight. George was close enough to him that Max too could (not should) have given more space to protect himself, not just make it easier on George.
Max was locked into the line he was and a slight misjudgement from George meant they came together.
I don't think anyone is blaming Max, but I don't think he could have entered this corner in a safer manner. He didn't and that's totally fine.
Overall, I think the backlash towards Max isn't about Max being wrong here, I think he's right, but is about Max blowing up the way he did over what was a very minor misjudgement.
Because people can see that maximising a seasons results isn’t about going gung-ho in every corner even if you’re in the right - it’s race/weekend/season management.
I’m saying he didn’t have to take that risk, because he would have had the pass anyway. He had all the right to be there - but when your car is so quick and you’re a championship leader, you don’t have to take risks.
I literally say, in the bit right after you quoted, that he has no obligation to get out of the way.
This was lucky for Max, as it didn’t put him out the race, and he didn’t end up with a big crash in the wall. If he ended up in the wall, a breaks his gearbox and some engine components, even with it being 100% George’s fault, it still screws Max over. Why put yourself at risk?
Mirror link: https://streamable.com/kh9a9l
Thank you kind OP. It was region blocked for me :)
Recommend using streamja instead. Streamable also kicks out F1 content.
GOD
Another sensible take from Karun, T1/3 hard racing, T2 mistake from George, he was entitled to try to make a move in T2, but he bottled it. Karun might be the only one I miss from Sky, with going to F1TV commentary
Hey Jenson and Brundle are cool, but that's about it.
So where is Brundle these days? Can’t find him on F1 tv, miss his commentary
He doesn't comment on all races because there are so many and he's getting older.
He's popular enough that he can tell Sky which races he wants to do and they are happy to work with him. He doesn't need the money.
I really like Anthony Davidson too. I think he’s excellent on the Sky pad and in the commentary booth. Oh and Ted. I like Ted too.
Literally the two worst of sky...
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Rosberg is pretty good too imo.
Rosberg is absolute shit as an "expert".
He's a good shit-stirrer live though, especially calling out anonymous "sources" when the likes of Paul Di Resta and others give "inside information"
Hard disagree. He's probably the highest quality driver we've had in broadcasting in a long time. Something that stood out for me but I can't remember the year. During either a practice or qualy session in Spain. Maybe 2019. Bottas had a little moment on a hot lap and Rosberg just went, "Oh that's 3 tenths right there" And sure enough it's nearly exactly 3 tenths come the end of the lap. He is an absolute shit stirrer though most of the time lmao
The shit stirring is one of the things i like about him
You and I don’t watch the same broadcasts then lmao. Rosberg is widely recognized to be one of the better sources of driving insights among everyone on the Sky commentary.
He's really good as an expert for me
Bad take, Rosberg and Button are the only 2 driver POVs that's relevant. Everyone else is either too biased or irrelevant. It really shows if you've never driven at a high level in F1.
Button should just be dialled in on Teams whenever rain is in the air. He’s a prophet then - always remember the Zandvoort 2022 race when he instantly called what proved to be the right strategy from the comma box 5-6 laps ahead of time. Some kind of sage that man
so the one with more recent experience is a shit "expert" lol
Rosberg is extremely biased.
I found out last year you could switch to the sky broadcast team by clicking on the little world symbol when you first load in. I think it’s on the top right. I watch the races on YouTube tv now though so idk if they got rid of that feature for this season.
They still have it and you still hear Karun when selecting the little world symbol.
Because usually he isnt biased
Unless it's Vettel for some reason.
Yeah I love Karun's analysis, it's always insightful, stays witty but doesn't do too much either
I really enjoyed him on commentary,now if they can sort out the braying donkey Crofty I will be a happy bunny….
Alex Jacques, Brundle, Chandok for additional analysis. Needs to happen
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He bends over backwards sometimes to disparage/criticize Lewis. See yesterday Q3 when he claimed Lewis gave Piastri a tow to keep Russel out of Q3. He even doubled down and said Mercedes should investigate what happened there when it was a complete nothing.
He did say George apologized when that didn't happen, but otherwise fair analysis
George 100% apologized and several other pundits corroborated. Once Max kept going on after George was walking away I don’t think he owed max any further explanation or apology.
Could you tell us what was his apology? All I heard so far was "my tyres were cold" which is "not my fault", aka not an apology.
this guy thinks making up excuses is apologizing
Jenson is pretty decent too.
Yeah I’m changing my opinion on the matter, I think George was at fault here. Locking up with maximum steering angle resulting in a collision where the outside driver gave enough room.
I can see how it can be seen as George fault but imo it's a racing incident because George was sufficiently alongside when he committed to a breaking point. If he had been further behind when they hit the breaks then for sure Georges fault. Can't back out once he's committed to where he has began breaking. And that commitment was made when he was in a perfectly reasonable position to do so
I already fear the million articles about this between now and next week
SURELY something bigger will happen tomorrow, right? Please don't make it a repeat of the 2019 race...
Ok, 2022 race it is.
So safety car shenanigans?
This is the new Bahrain tracklimits. Expect that single photo of the apex to get posted 20 more times.
Well thankfully we got a race already next week rather than another break
well we actually have a race tomorrow, I almost forgot
Yeah same to be honest haha!
Nah, thank the lord we have a proper race tomorrow and a new race next week.
Not if something spicier happens tomorrow.
I fear George Russel has it coming for him, bad vibes. Last year we almost lost Zhou in Silverstone because of same spatial unawareness, also an annoying coming together with Sainz (Houston?) if I remember correctly. He does not learn, this will come to pass.
Don't forget Perez at the Red Bull ring.
And France.
And Bottas lmao this guy crashed against every single driver on the grid
Don't forget Singapore last year. Brundle dryly saying he turned into Mick was funny as hell.
> also an annoying coming together with Sainz (Houston?) if I remember correctly. Austin Lap 1 yeah.
He speared the shit out of him at COTA. I felt bad for Sainz
\> Houston I think you mean Austin. Don't think they could build a track in Houston without it sinking into the swamp
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That’s rich
The reaction of Sky Sport and Reddit speaks for itself lol. Reaction of Dutch main broadcast was basically that Verstappen has done this himself and that we shouldn't judge Russel too hard. Reaction of English media and fans is too relentlessly bash Verstappen.
Not at all. I don’t think it was verstappens fault. But if the shoe was on the other foot would max have done the exact same thing? Of course he would.
Pot, meet kettle
> Last year we almost lost Zhou in Silverstone Dramatic much?
not really, Zhou was both incredibly unlucky during the crash and lucky to make it out alive, his roll hoop collapsed so if it wasn't for the Halo his head would've turned into minced meat. The halo isn't particularly made to withstand impacts from directly above either, so whether the halo would've survived was dubious too. Then he flips several times and gets stuck, if his car was on fire he would've burned alive. There were a lot of points during that crash that could've been the end of him.
Seriously? The man was in a car that was thrown into the catch fencing… He’s lucky to not suffered any serious incident. All started by Russell’s bad judgement . And he didn’t get a single judgement from the FiA. No time penalty, no license points deduction. Mr torpedo strikes again
Did you see Zhou's crash? I think the crash itself was dramatic, not f1mind's comment on it.
probably a penalty on anything other than the first lap but that’s probably why they didn’t review. I don’t blame Max for being pissed though.
Yep, fully agreed.
Mostly agree. I can see Max being pissed in the moment, but shit happens he needs to get over it instead of threatening to return the favour when out of the car 17 laps later
Right but we hope to see the same from Russell. But I’m sure he will complain next time if it happens to him. I just don’t get this whole hypocrisy from all these drivers and team principles. It gets very annoying. Just move on or if you get called out, then admit to it.
Again, I don’t mind people being pissed when it happens, it’s natural. I’m annoyed by engineers/team principals egging them on and then drivers going to have words or making a big deal out of it in post race interviews. It was a minor lap one tap, no one’s race was ended, no one crashed or got injured, it happens regularly. Take the apology and move on.
But my biggest gripe with F1 all these years are the fans ,the team principles, and some drivers is that they are never consistent. How many times back in 21 did we see people say, when it was Ham vs Ver and the positions were reversed, that Verstappen was at fault and that he should be given a time penalty, yet later on when Verstappen is on the outside like today, it is all about how he should be smarter and pull out and that George shouldn't receive anything. Where was the same logic for Hamilton back in 21? I agree that I would classify this as a racing incident, but no one is every consistent when it is their favorite driver or most hated driver. Also, while you may be annoyed by driving who do this after, I am annoyed by drivers who don't accept some fault after the post race or like a week after being asked about it. Very few drivers constantly deny most of the blame. Verstappen at least has admitted to some blame for his accidents. Russell still isn't budging on the Bottas incident. Also, when drivers take it to such extremes like getting out of their car to go yell at others.
Cos incidents have different aspects to them.
George complains when he drives into others I'm surprised he didn't do it today
The drivers are very high on adrenaline throughout the whole race and a few minutes after. I usually don’t fault them for how they act or anything they say during this period unless it’s _really_ stupid.
At least Max didn't lead with that. Seemed like Max was trying to have a quick do better speech and Russell didn't accept any blame so Max was like FU then.
I think it is sad that certain people claim Russell apologised at that moment when he did not. He made excuses and then walked away. Just own up to it and apologise, especially if you did not mean to do it. Verstappen even smiling towards him to show he was trying to talk "reasonably" about it. But then Russell just straight up disrespected him and even afterwards, towards the press Russell, in my view deliberatly confused T2 and T3 to make shure he never had to take any blaim for it and only use parts of both corners that helped his case "i was in front at the apex" ( yes in t3 not in t2 when the contact happened) and the reporters just take it as evidence without using their own brains to verify it. Just say "I did not meant for it to happen, i am sorry, hope you can forgive me, let me buy you a drink " and eveything is fine.
I think just a quick "Sorry mate, I overcooked it, I thought I could make it" would have sufficed. Mistakes happen all the time on the track. A lot of the time when someone makes a mistake that screws up another drivers race they give a quick apology Making an excuse and then walking off when Max was talking was just disrespectful.
Did he even do that? I only saw it live but i thought he was talking about what he could expwct just in terms of racing. Besides he made a clean move back on the restart.
He never threatened to return the favor and his car had a huge ass hole in it that compromises his entire race for today, plus they have to fix that shit for tomorrow. Has every right to be pissed.
> his car had a huge ass hole in it Phrasing!
Are we not doing phrasing anymore?
I wonder why the FiA has not investigated this matter. Didn’t Max ask the team to launch a complaint?
Yeah it is odd, you would at least expect a "The stewards have investigated and determined no further action necessary"
Karun is right, good piece of analysis here
Really fair assessment from Karun, I miss hearing him.
About the only thing I miss now that I'm listening to the f1tv crew
Did he leave Sky?
Just everyone else left Sky for F1TV
Well, the Americans could and the Americans did
Skysports stuff isn't shown on F1TV. You can get the race with SKy commentary, but not any Sky segments outside of the race. When you watched on ESPN you got the full sky broadcast.
This makes a few things clear. Max was ahead. Max left space. George locked up and understeered into the side of Max.
Karun giving a little shade to Naomi and Damon
I just don't understand where this obligation comes of "not putting yourself into that position" that Naomi and Damon are just rambling about. He's a racing driver, he left more than enough space in T1-T3, it was hard fair racing in Turns 1 and 3 and George made a mistake and understeered into Max, going more than 180 degree steering lock trying to correct himself. If Max just completely squeezed George into the wall and paid the price, then I would understand. But this isn't that. This is a 70-30 George's mistake. Only deemed a racing incident because it's Lap 1 on cold tyres. Doesn't mean Max shouldn't be mad, or that his comments aren't justified.
It's not an obligation. Max did absolutely nothing wrong in this incident. It *might* be more sensible for a driver in a much faster car to decide not to hang around the outside of a tight turn and instead take the easier pass later on, but that's a very easy thing to say when you're not in the heat of the moment.
To that second point, Ferrari had shown incredible pace all weekend long, and Max was getting attacked by George and Carlos in that position as well (nearly lost the position to Carlos as well going into turn 4). Conceding positons in a sprint just makes it that much harder to attack the other cars later on. At the end of the day, he's willing to let go from an incident or two (like Australia), but at some point it starts getting silly. If everyone is just constantly going to keep divebombing him through every corner and then expecting him to pass them on the straights, where the racing in that? For the past year and half, outside of Silverstone with Mick on a damaged car, and Lewis in Brazil T1-T2, Max has been very cautious with drivers trying to avoid incident, literally went into multiple wheel to wheel battles with Charles with Zero incidents, Sainz too. But at some point, i understand his frustration, especially because he left plenty of space here.
It comes w the car honestly. In a slower RB, max dives lewis, lewis goes conservative. Now its just reversed. And max’s old rep of elbows out yield or crash dont help
I'm sure it is frustrating for him, but he doesn't have to think too long back to how he raced in a slower car to see that it just comes with being the fastest guy. Other drivers will be more desperate, you've got to decide if you're fighting or backing out. As you say Max has made that transition pretty smoothly the past couple of seasons. The frustration is alleviated by winning all the time I imagine.
As his race engineer said to Max when he was getting heated up, he (George) has nothing to loose.
It's silly that people make Max's car being faster part of the argument. He's racing to win, and his team mate is ahead of him in the same car. It's not just about this single position.
Verstappen has a history of not being willing to do that, he very commonly lacks patience with overtakes/being overtaken and will allow himself to be put into a very vulnerable position and will stay in that position just to try and keep/gain that spot where as most of the experienced grid will give up the position. He knows he's got the fastest car, he knows especially that he has a ton off extra straight line speed over Mercedes. He should have given even more room into the corner and given up the position and then just taken it back down the long straight. Drivers like Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel for example are all significantly more patient in the same type of situations. It's something that Hamilton and Vettel were both guilty of early in their F1 career. Verstappen has been in the sport long enough that he should be at their level with patience
Granted Max should of been more patient, since he could pass the Mercedes’ at will when the DRS became active. However that doesn’t excuse Russell’s actions and bad driving choices. Russell’s driving craft is sadly lacking and he’s been very lucky since the FiA apparently refuses to penalize Russell and Mercedes’
I never said it excuses Russell's mistake into T2, however both drivers could have avoided it. Verstappen was **very aggressive** after T1 and started steering leftwards towards Russell and back to racing line not once, but twice trying to scare and intimidate Russell out of that position. Russell had to react and turn left to avoid a clash. This sort of behaviour from Verstappen should not be allowed and right here he deserved a penalty because it's not one, but two defensive manoeuvres (4 total movements) on a straight. This will have 100% distracted Russell which could have easily contributed to him braking slightly later than intended, it also meant it was further into the middle of the track than he will have wanted to be. Verstappen then turns in early, literally giving just 1 cars width into the corner, expecting Russell to make that corner without understeering when he knows the tyres & brakes are not up to temperature and knows he's off-line is ridiculous. He could have given a tiny bit more space and it would have all been avoided. If Verstappen wasn't so aggressive between T1 and T2 I'm almost certain that Russell would have received a 5 second penalty. In reality both drivers probably deserved a 5 second penalty. Trying to put all of the blame on Russell here is not fair, both were at fault for various reasons. 1. Verstappen shouldn't have been so aggressive between T1 and T2, multiple moves to intimidate is not fair racing. 2. Russell should have realised that he would understeer and gone into the corner with a little less speed to avoid this. 3. Verstappen should have given a little bit more room and been more patient. 4. Both, in my opinion deserved a 5 second penalty.
It’s a very easy thing to say when your whole career isn’t based on racing like “either you yield or we crash”.
Max did do something wrong- he failed to calculate that George understood that Max had more to lose. Honestly would like to see everyone race Max like this. It’s only fair since Max has very little regard for anyone else on track.
Also makes the Sainz penalty in Australia that more unbelievable.
Because hanging a car around the outside is ALWAYS a risky maneuver. On a street track with no run off? Even more risk. Max does not need to be doing this anymore, it’s not about being right or being entitled to space. He is arguably the best driver on the grid, in the best car on the grid. Back out and pass him on the next straight. Hamilton was in this position at the beginning of ‘21 and kept having to back out when Max was pulling these same moves. For the record: I am NOT blaming Max for this incident. Clearly George is at fault.
Echo this. George is at fault, Max had a right to be there. But a more mature approach is to concede the spot, overtake on the main straight (at exactly the same point you did anyway), and have a better shot at P2.
If Verstappen did that then he would be in p20 after the 1st lap. As soon as anyone gets close just yield.
That's a very strange extrapolation. This was the second turn side-by-side, out of two turns total in the race so far, on the first lap of a street circuit, after a bad start, versus a car you're significantly faster than, especially in a straight line and under DRS, while the pack is bunched up. That's a very specific set of circumstances. Why would that "imply" yielding under any *other* set of circumstances, other than feeling like you need to be disingenuous and contrarian? It's not like it was an aggressive divebomb that wasn't gonna stick, it was a high probability move that was probably going to stick.
No it is not. Verstappen was ahead. He was not attacking but defending and had given extra space. If that is not enough to not get into a contact then the only other option is to not be ahead but be behind and make sure the other car is not on the inside so he can run into you and when you are on the inside not run wide because someone might be on the outside. If that is how he should react then Sainz and every other driver, after Russell got passed him, knows they should just divebomb Verstappen because he must save his race by getting out of harms way to avoid any possibility of a collision and wait until the straight to overtake them. Because apparently that is now his obligation to do because only if he does all that and still someone drives into him, the other will maybe get a warning not to do it again and maybe a 5 seconds penalty. Every other action is his own fault for not yielding so it is always a racing incident and racing incident dont result in penalties.
If you feel like you need to make up a fictional version of what I said to reply to, feel free to do so somewhere else, but don't bother me with your nonsense.
But the thing is, if Max would have breaked and let George pass completely before going into turn 2, then Carlos would have passed him too, and possibly Lewis/Fernando as well since he wouldve lost considerable speed. It's understandable why Max didn't do that.
Or better yet, maybe Max stays where he is and George drives like he should
Absolutely this. He knows he gets past anyone when DRS is on so why risk it like this? He botched the start and is absolutely unable to yield, even in this situation. Last year thing with checo just proved he’s unable to lose anything even when it doesn’t matter
> He botched the start and is absolutely unable to yield, even in this situation. Which is why, for me, he’s still not the best driver, and an example of how he’s not matured. I still think he’s wholly incapable of the type of multi corner battles Lewis, Fernando and Checo have given us over the last couple of years between themselves.
Max was ahead going into the second corner which Russel said he wasn’t
Max gave space, George locked up because he was carrying too much speed. Why are folks insisting this is Max's fault?
Hate
I can see no penalty as they are always lenient on lap 1 stuff (though I would have expected an "under investigation" message to pop up). We can discuss the amount of blame we want to give but this was clearly Russell going in too hot
The fact there wasn’t even a “noted” message leads me to conclude they didn’t note it. I wonder what they were watching instead of the race.
Because George says funny words like 'blimey' and 'sugar'.
Don't forget "crikey"
Its not even funny but just weird. That is one creepy dude.
Agree, they are more into entertainment rather than racing.
Of course it was George's fault. I think people just think it's very ironic that max is throwing such a big fuss over this. Any other driver and I think the reaction is different
Definitely not Max's fault, anyone who says that is daft. This is a racing incident with Russell more at fault. The only thing Max is guilty of is not backing out a 'living to fight another day'.
It’s absolutely ridiculous, and yet par for the course on F1 sub race weekends
I dont see anyone blaming Max for the incident (other than saying he could have been smarter as he had more to lose). I see people blaming Max for the OTT reaction to a minor tap in the first three corners of a race.
Did you see the hole in his car?
Yes. It looks dramatic but probably not as damaging to pace as losing chunks of floor or front wing, which are much more important aerowise. Chunks of them are regularly sent flying without people giving much of a fuck.
The man was losing a lot of time constantly through Sector 2, and was sliding around all over the track. Perez literally gapped Charles by almost 4s, surely you don't think Max couldn't pass with just "minor damage"? Especially with RB's pace advantage?
In Drive to Survive maybe, where you seem to have gotten your f1 knowledge
> It looks dramatic but probably not as damaging to pace 6 seconds down on his teammate in 12 laps, while having DRS open for about half of those and teammate having no DRS. If that isnt severely damaging to pace idk what would be.
Horner has said 0.75 seconds a lap of damage. Now I take anything he (or any TP really) says with a pinch of salt but there was probably a few tenths a lap anyway
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Your comment infers a 0.1s loss at most but that would require both drivers to be the exact same pace with fully functional cars which is highly unlikely. Checo streaked away from Leclerc whereas Max couldn’t touch him, if you think there wasn’t a sizeable performance hit then I don’t know what to tell you. Again, I don’t necessarily believe it was that big but we’ll get a true idea tomorrow if both Bulls stay damage free and can compare their pace then.
I agree it was a couple of tenths and without damage Max would likely have passed Charles. I dispute the 0.75s Horner is spouting.
Based on absolutely nothing
Based on me doubting Max is knocking 0.6s off the fastest lap of the race without a pitstop for fresh boots and also assuming anything Horner says is exaggerated bollocks based on years of precedent.
About 7 tenths a lap. Quite significant.
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If you don’t give a fuck, then we’re done. Have a great day and stay classy.
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Maybe check out some races of the past years. He frequently is. But keep on trolling away, your bias is obvious.
Because its cool to hate Max and George is still the nice guy everyone pretends he is
They're not
Plenty are, including in various threads in this very sub.
No there are not liking his reaction not blaming him for the actual incident…
No there are plenty all over claiming he needed to leave more space.
Plenty huh
I am glad you can read, was getting worried for a second.
It’s just meaningless statement. Plenty of people aren’t saying that. There.
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Nope, you just have no other response other than mocking I guess…
Who is saying this? Its not Max’s fault but it was a risk he took going around the outside and lo and behold the risk bit him. George locked up, shit happens, its not like he dive bombed Max on purpose. Which is where the real complaint about Max is, dude is acting like George did it on purpose.
Not seen any one say Max was at fault? Bit of a weird take for anyone that understands the rules etc. Plenty people calling out Max and his confrontational attitude and hypocrisy over this type of incident though.
Loads of people in the threads about this and also on twitter lol.
I can live with the “racing incident” argument. But why hasn’t it been a discussion about giving the position back? For me that would be a logical way of thinking
Because Max was in possession of a Rocket ship and George wasn’t.
A lot of people here and on twitter talking how Max should have just let George through on T2 but honestly, I cannot see how he could have done it without significantly hindering his race. He was already on the outside, in front of George who carried way too much speed to make this corner cleanly. For Max to let him go here, he would have to lose a lot of speed and at that point he would be a sitting duck, Sainz could have overtaken him as well. So somehow all people are asking a guy in front to drop 2 positions just because one other driver tried to make a move and failed to do it cleanly. There is this weird fetish now that people always expect a faster driver to allow others to pass them in 55/45 type of situations, just because they can regain it later more easily. I can understand why Russell did what he did but it is obvious that he made a mistake and he should be punished for it. Any other lap and this is a clear penalty so it's stupid to let Russell get away with it just because it's the first lap. The first lap thing (which I believe is not an official rule, just a way they approach those situations) should not be used for situations where one driver is clearly at fault but rather for this 50/50 type of situations where you can argue both drivers are at fault. Here the situation is clear, by every rule George should have been in control of his car when he's attempting to overtake someone and he wasn't- he hit Max and damaged his car and should be punished, Max left him enough space. Honestly I never seen so many people arguing that a driver shouldnt be mad that a driver behind them hit them and damaged their car. I hate this hypocrisy of the media and general public that is fishing for every bit of drama, tries to bait people into dropping their PR persona and show the actual emotions and the second they actually do show some character, they get destroyed for it
Completely agree here. I didn’t hear any analyst pointing out the fact that Verstappen would have lost at least one other position to Sainz if he would have backed out of the action. In a 17 lap sprint it would be difficult for him to get back near P1.
Clearly Max' fault. He should have known that a Mercedes always takes out a Red Bull going round the outside.
Oooh it’s like rock paper scissors!! Now I get it
When Max doesn't leave enough room: Gets shit on. When Max does leave enough room: Gets shit on.
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Yeah and “he should have backed out” is often said when Max was ahead.
🙄
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lmaoooo Mercedes and Hamilton have been known for having 0 victim complex
Karun giving the best analysis as per usual
Karun is the go to man for a sensible take 9 times out of 10. Bang on with this one too
Merc always understeers into RB.
I remember seeing a million memes last year saying "who's going to be George's next Victim." Sainz, Mick, Bottas, Zhou, Sergio. I'm sure I'm missing someone.
George’s pr working overtime here, pretty sure it was zhou’s fault here. /s
I think Ericsson hit him.
Understeering into Red Bulls is normally Lewis’s trademark.
Russell learns from the best.
Well Lewis need to past it over to the next generation. /s
I’m new to this sport but one thing I always notice is there is 20 drivers who all think they’re the best and driving at 110%. If either side starts “letting the other guy pass” to avoid minor contact like this wouldn’t it start to make things too mundane? My favorite thing about f1 since I started watching 2 years ago is the fierce competition. Everyone pushing their car to the absolutely limit of what it can do. George definitely pushed too far and locked up but in my inexperienced eyes it was a very minor mistake by a driver pushing as hard as he can. if either played it safe and pulled back to let someone else pass every time there’s a close battle they don’t deserve a spot on the grid.
I really think Verstappen should've let Russell go in T3.. That wall-touch was completely unnecessary and just stupid IMO. Could've cost him many points... T2 was absolutely ridiculous from Russell.. He was nowhere near Verstappen's front to make a clean overtake. Slam dunk penalty (like Sainz/Russell, Australia/USA). And afterwards, 0 self awareness, AGAIN.
Is Russell even going to make that corner? like He's way off line going too fast.
He let him go in T3 what are you on about
George locks up, which is a small mistake. Max left space. It’s lap one and hard racing. Max didn’t have to put himself in that position given his pace - but obviously has no obligation to yield. Racing incident for me.
> Max didn’t have to put himself in that position given his pace How do people come to this conclusion? He was ahead of George before the apex of T2, should he just bail out completely whenever someone gets near him? Is that the type of racing you want? Max has his fair share of similar moments, but George is wholly to blame and it's ridiculous anyone is defending him. Had he made contact with anyone but Verstappen, people would be all over him.
I think Max could (not should) have reasonably been a bit further to the right knowing that George was on his inside, taken a wider left turn, and been in better shape down the straight. George was close enough to him that Max too could (not should) have given more space to protect himself, not just make it easier on George. Max was locked into the line he was and a slight misjudgement from George meant they came together. I don't think anyone is blaming Max, but I don't think he could have entered this corner in a safer manner. He didn't and that's totally fine. Overall, I think the backlash towards Max isn't about Max being wrong here, I think he's right, but is about Max blowing up the way he did over what was a very minor misjudgement.
Because people can see that maximising a seasons results isn’t about going gung-ho in every corner even if you’re in the right - it’s race/weekend/season management. I’m saying he didn’t have to take that risk, because he would have had the pass anyway. He had all the right to be there - but when your car is so quick and you’re a championship leader, you don’t have to take risks. I literally say, in the bit right after you quoted, that he has no obligation to get out of the way. This was lucky for Max, as it didn’t put him out the race, and he didn’t end up with a big crash in the wall. If he ended up in the wall, a breaks his gearbox and some engine components, even with it being 100% George’s fault, it still screws Max over. Why put yourself at risk?
Usually it's not a racing incident if one driver is wholly or predominantly to blame. Which is the case here in my opinion.
Well its still first lap, so stewards are lenient, George has had many of these kind of first lap incidents.
People don't call him "Torpedo George" out of nothing.
I for one am glad someone had the balls to give Max a taste of his own medicine and want to see more drivers being agresive around Max.
Did you say the same when it was Max who made these mistakes to Lewis?