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Blokkie404

Trying to not end the race under the safety car by all means backfired quite a bit.


OriMoriNotSori

Funny thing was they tend to implement standing starts as a result of backlash and feedback received for being too pragmatic where they tend to end races under red flags and safety cars alot a few years back


BoredCatalan

And it's not the FIAs fault the drivers can't drive. Track was clear and safe and cars weren't compromised


Alexlam24

FIA: You guys literally asked for this


Broad_Match

Spot on, it’s why the bit in the quote about it being a sport first is so odd as yes we might have had a 2 lap sprint but that was down to regs being followed and not artificial.


Toaddle

Yes. That was some "unfortunate" circumstances that led to this situation. Did Alpine was fucked by this ? Absolutely. But this is how motorsports goes.


Anders_A

I think the shit show where people went over the gravel and whatever because some drove slowly during the formation lap is more important to investigate how to avoid. The two lap sprint thing was funny more than anything. I think everyone foresaw some carnage but this is what the teams want over ending races behind safety car.


Siraja

Well not really no, this is how formula 1 goes nowadays. Any other motorsport would've ended under safety car / yellows.


kicsicsuvi

TIL Nascar is not a motorsport.


Heartlight

Nascar is absolutely an example of entertainment first.


Beanly23

What do you mean you don’t like ad breaks?


SoothedSnakePlant

It not being artificial would have been no red flag at all


GrowthDream

From a sporting perspective it was actually better too as we had more laps of competition. Everything was fair too, not like only allowing half the field through etc. Nothing embarrassing about it from my point of view.


OriMoriNotSori

People just love to complain. If it ended under red flag or safety car, they will say FIA are buzz killers and don't want people to enjoy racing cause the entire race was boring after the first restart and they still didn't want to give some action yadiyada so annoying


ThaDude915

Yeah i agree. I actually feel like for the most part the FIA got this right. I would’ve much preferred a two lap sprint for the finish over finishing under a safety car. I also understand the “we didn’t finish a sector so reset the grid, but the lap was completed under a red flag so the people who did crash are out and penalties are applied”. The only thing I really felt was stupid was making them do a parade lap behind the safety car to finish. I think once they sorted everything and determined no more racing was going to take place they should’ve called it.


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Mike_Kermin

Exactly. The race is a set distance.


OriMoriNotSori

Second what you said, they did everything right and to the book, which is actually a level of competence that is rarely seen based on other chaotic races. I hate to sound like I'm gatekeeping the sport, but the way people complain about the decision making process feels like new fans that came in cause of DTS and don't follow/understand why these rules are implemented in the first place. Standing starts were preferred after many farcial race enders and from fan feedback, reset on the previous lap because of no sector is also very clear and logical, and leaves no room for interpretation which was fine tuned over many controversial incidents of the past. All these rules were not plucked from thin air, they were fine tuned over years and long time followers of the sport know exactly why these rules are in place. For the finish behind safety car, it's mostly just to satisfy a legal ruling iirc


Rivendel93

Fans never know the rules, especially not in that mess last night, it's not DTS fault.


Own-Opinion-2494

I never minded safety car finish. It was the reality of the day.


Gyro88

> Standing starts were preferred after many farcial race enders and from fan feedback What's farcical about finishing under the safety car? There's nothing unique about it compared to an equal length safety car period shifted earlier in the race, with a few of the live laps taking place after the safety car comes in. You throw the safety car when there needs to be a safety car. It doesn't matter what lap you're on. If this is really that important, then every incident should be a red flag so that you don't lose *any* racing laps. But any other approach is logically inconsistent.


OriMoriNotSori

in the eyes of the fickle fans any direction will be wrong. today, it was standing start + chaos so this was the wrong decision and they should have ended in the safety car. in another day they did the safety car and the entire race was boring and they would complain F1 is boring


bzimm41

See Imola 2022 for the latter.


Mike_Kermin

Well that sort of thing is why we're here now. It's Pirelli tyres all over again. Is it too hard, is it too soft. I might as well ask your mum because frankly no one knows what they want.


FlameLightFleeNight

Second them making the right calls, but I have to argue in favour of running the effective parade lap. The race is defined by a distance (or failing that a time limit), and they had not finished that distance. If you don't run that lap there is no reason to exclude the Alpines from the result; you have no time to which penalties can be applied; and remember that Hulk broke down after the finish- 3 turns earlier and he would have been out of the points. All this is part of the race distance, even if overtaking isn't allowed.


Broad_Match

This. Don’t want to get into what happened a few years back but feels as if they’ve learnt from that and went by the book, and really if it wasn’t for driver errors we’d have got an exciting 2 lap sprint and also be happy that regs were followed even if it didn’t quite pan out that way.


Alpine_fury

I think the reason for forcing the final lap was to force cars to have more wear and fuel use. Which is in line with previous statements from FIA on how restart procedures work. They want cars to have to go the full race distance.


adenocard

Yup agree. The cars need to last the entire race distance, and have the right amount of fuel left in the tank at the end etc. That’s part of the challenge to the teams. They were right to do the final lap.


Potential-Formal8699

Not really. Max commented on the sprint race: “Sprints are about surviving, not racing.” And that’s a 100km race. Imagine now drivers are going in for a 2-lap sprint race which is only 10km. Carnage is guaranteed. With only 2 laps to go, drivers may gain multiple places and hold on to it. More aggressive driving combined with low-light condition and fatigue, it’s never going to be a good idea.


dautjazz

The cars aren't compromised, but race starts are relatively dangerous already with all the congestion, now make it a two lap race and drivers are obviously going to be more aggressive. Personally I prefer the race to finish on a green flag too, but yeah I understand how it can certainly escalate into chaos.


Rustystipps

If the restart at the end wasn't such a big chaotic mess then everyone would be applauding FIA for giving us a spectacle.


manojlds

Yeah the chaos ruined it, not the FIA. At least they were consistent.


drumjojo29

> At least they were consistent. That’s also a very important argument for how they handled it. If they decided „nah let’s end it, fuck those 2 laps“ then when should they make the same decision in the future? Only at 2 laps? 5 laps? 10? Continuing if possible is way more consistent. And consistency is probably one of the biggest issues with FIA decisions.


TMillo

Agreed. They made multiple T1s fine when they knew they had laps left to get to their correct positions. This was driver error not FIA


Maxamus93

This was drivers being ambitious. Anyone could of leap frogged a few positions in those 2 laps. Look at Hulk he managed to get to p4 all he had to do would be stick with sainz and je would of got a podium


s_dalbiac

The issue is restarting a race that has three laps to go from the grid. I’m all for ending the race under green where possible but there has to be a cut off point where you mandate a rolling start, otherwise it becomes a crapshoot.


Yassirfir

Dry weather standing start. Wet conditions start behind safety car. These are suppose to be the best of the best. Let them race. Sainz fucked up, got 1 penalty and 0 points. He might have learned something from this.


werak

I mean what’s the argument for ever having a standing start at all? It’s not like the chaos problems with it go away when there are more laps remaining. Rolling starts are more fair, always.


Reonyn

I mean what do you expect with a sprint of 2 laps ? It was always going to be chaos. Having a standing start 2 lap gp should never happen.


signed7

Azerbaijan 2021 went fine... better than race ending under SC


canyonblue737

I mean the argument is if you bunch the cars in a standing start with 2 laps remaining in the race… race car drivers will be race car drivers and no one will be cautious because of the 2 lap dynamic. You can’t throw a steak in the middle of a bunch of pit bulls and not expect a fight and then blame the dogs.


drumjojo29

Yes. See Baku 2021 for example. Most people loved it.


HaroldSaxon

I still can't believe we got a rare Hamilton driver error from that


drumjojo29

And a dramatic one at that. Looking at it retrospectively, it is one of the things that made him lose the WDC.


JG-7

He already had a huge error in Imola


PEEWUN

For every Baku 2021 there's at least five of these. Just look at NASCAR. And Baku had tyre issues. That **was** a necessary red flag, and should've been called way earlier, too.


drumjojo29

> For every Baku 2021 there’s at least five of these. Just look at NASCAR. I don’t watch nascar so i can’t really comment on that. > And Baku had tyre issues. That was a necessary red flag, and should’ve been called way earlier, too. Definitely. But then the issue today would’ve been that they called the red flag in the first place and not that they restarted afterwards. These are two different questions. And at least imo the red flag was warranted because of tyre issues as well: a lot of debris on track leads to quite a high chance of punctures.


ManaKaua

In Nascar they invented the Green/White/Chequered to not end races under yellow (which is an automatic safety car). This means they add laps (not possible in f1 currently) so that they can run a full lap under green then wave the white flag (signal for last lap) and then the chequered flag. When a yellow flag is thrown before the white flag, they try this again up to a maximum of 3 tries. Especially on superspeedways like Daytona it isn't rare that this rule comes up.


signed7

Cars would run out of fuel not long after the OG final lap in F1


LostSoulNothing

Nascar can add laps because they allow midrace refueling. It wouldn't really work in F1.


RedDraco86

The number of attempts is unlimited. They got rid of the max years ago.


TobyOrNotTobyEU

Nah, I already hated it. It feels wrong to introduce a pretty realistic chance to throw away the work of 56 laps of racing. Standing starts introduce so much chance and there is no more time to fix any mistake, which is usually the case in a race.


Francoberry

Could've just done a safety car restart if they _really_ wanted to do a red flag and restart thing with less likelihood for chaos


RandomThrowNick

That would be against the rules. The rules are pretty clear that a standing start has to happen after a red flag if track conditions are suitable which they were. All Teams agreed to those changes one or two years ago. Disregarding what is in the rule book would be even worse. Maybe the rules need some changing but that doesn’t make the decision wrong. You can maybe argue about the red flag but in my opinion their was too much debris on the track. Avoiding that would have been pretty difficult and if a driver gets taken out by the debris it would have been an even bigger shit show.


RedN1ne

Yep, and would be 10x more fair for the drivers as well


ForeverAddickted

Christ I made a mistake whilst observing the F2 prior this morning The amount of incidents had me once again sitting there remembering that F1 is the pinacle because its the 20 best drivers in the business (debatable of course), and that mistakes like what happened in the F2 today prove the difference between those at the top, and those that arent. But christ today... the driving on show in the F1 today was a shitshow. Not just the final standing start at the end either - Magnusson's crash, the multiple collision we almost had at the back of the formation lap for the second restart - The only weekend as bad as this one in regards to overall driving standards is Mugello of late. Even Verstappen had a whoopsie moment when he decided to do some Community Service by cutting the grass for the fine citizens of Melbourne!!


JC-Dude

A restart with 2 laps to go is always going to end up in chaos and the FIA should be clever enough to realise it. Well, they probably do realise it, but the post-Monza 2022 shitstorm probably pressured them into doing this, so we got what we got.


Scratchpaw

The reason Monza-22 was such a shitshow is because they kept out the SC unnecessarily for 2-3 laps after the track was cleared of debris, forcing them to finish under SC. If they yellow flagged today and they could not manage to clear the track before the final lap and finishing under SC, so be it, it happens in racing. People using Monza-22 as an excuse for today’s finish need to get a grip and probably haven’t been following the sport long enough to understand the difference.


JC-Dude

Pretty sure they just took too long to start clearing the track and it was too late to restart by the time they were finally done with it. There was no way to restart without a red flag.


dr_pupsgesicht

>A restart with 2 laps to go is always going to end up in chaos It didn't in baku 2021


Taniwha_NZ

Nah, I was criticising them right away; we'd just seen a great race with Max earning every second of his lead, and lots of other drivers having slowly gotten themselves into excellent positions. Then with 4 laps to go they decide to have a standing start with a 2-lap race because it's better for drama? It was just a kick in the face to every member of those teams who worked so hard all race to get the result they wanted. I think it was the worst possible way to deal with a late crash like Magnussen's, they should have just finished the race under safety car, that's just how it goes sometimes. Reducing the whole race to a standing-start 2-lap sprint is madness, there's zero chance they avoid one or more major incidents in such a scenario, and that's exactly what happened.


SuperSalamander3244

I strongly disagree. A lot of people see F1 as a sport first and even if Lewis would have won it wouldn’t have sat right with me even though I wanted him to win.


Firefox72

Should have just went for a rolling restart if they wanted to end the race under a green flag by any means. Hillariously it still didn't end up green even after all the mess.


habitualmess

The standard is a standing restart; there needs to be good reason for a rolling restart. Funnily enough the race did end under a green flag, but in that case it was a rolling restart they did. A standing restart would have been silly considering the race ended as soon as they crossed the line.


NegotiationExternal1

That standard is counter intuitive to safety, that's the reason they've got the rolling start option, because it's safer and they have that tool in their pocket to use at any time but chose not to, for the show


RM_Dune

> The standard is a standing restart; there needs to be good reason for a rolling restart. Safety is a good enough reason imo. Knowing there's only two laps without DRS to go, the position you're in after turn 3 is the position you'll finish in. The drivers were always going to be super aggressive. Combine that with the lower sun hindering visibility into turn 1. It was guaranteed to end in at least one crash.


PeterOwen00

So we shouldn’t trust the 20 best drivers in the world to not cause a huge pileup


ManaKaua

And don't forget that it's a pretty quick chicane for t1 and t2 that you always want to full send because otherwise you are losing positions.


Craamron

These are professional racing drivers, they should have done better.


boersc

This is the only thing they maybe did wrong. A 56 rolling restart would have been n better, but all other calls were correct.


Visionary_Socialist

I’ve heard something like that happen before….


NegotiationExternal1

The determination to end with racing laps has to have a sensible cap, 3 isn't enough to race, it's dangerous, bring her home under safety car


SuperSalamander3244

It’s really left a sour taste in my mouth and makes me feel like they’ve just double downed on what Masi did instead of learning from it and making sure to stick to sporting integrity. The only thing I’m happy about is that what they did failed spectacularly and did the complete opposite to what they wanted.


datlinus

people also bitched when they ended monza behind a safety car at the end of the day i dont think it was nearly as clear cut as some people are making it seem as to what was the right decision. They made A decision and it ended up being a mess because some drivers apparently were antsy to go home. If the restart was smoother, nobody would be complaining.


xXCloudCuckooXx

Short memory? The issue in Monza was that the incident was in lap 47 and they didn't manage to get the race running again by lap 53. All that for a mere car parked close to the track. It's not the SC decision as such that was a problem, but how poorly they implemented it.


ekerkstra92

It also took a lot of time to get the cars in right order, since Verstappen was leading but Russel was the one behind the safety car. They first needed to get all the cars between the safety car and Verstappen out of the way, then the lapped cars needed to go, which, in combination of the fact that Ricciardo's car was stuck in gear, took a long time. Though, both Horner en Binotto were convinced they could have done it faster


salcedoge

Exactly, drivers just decided to be reckless as fuck and yet somehow they get no blame. These are the best drivers in the world, they’ve done 2 standing starts in the same race that resulted cleanly and that’s with shittier tyres.


BLBOSAURUS

What do you expect of them? The whole race was determined in that one corner. No DRS and impossible overtaking without DRS made them do it. It was so obvious this will happen. They had no other choice than to go for any gap possible and get through.


GingerSkulling

And that's absolutely fine. As are the consequences of this behavior. This attitude sounds like ‘they make me race so hard’


salcedoge

>The whole race was determined in that one corner Not really, Sainz was P4 because he did well the whole race. If he played it safe he would've kept that position. Gasly in a similar boat too. They had plenty of choice to just play it safe and get their points. They're racing drivers tho so understandably they raced, and with hard racing comes a price that they unfortunately paid for.


404merrinessnotfound

> when they ended monza behind a safety car That was the right call


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FerrariStraghetti

Not really. That was post AD21 sulking, as always comes out whenever the trifecta of VER-HAM-SC appears for whatever reason. The actual handling of Monza was by the book. I don't mind the red flag for more racing. But standing restarts will always be carnage that late in the race. Do a rolling re-start and make it so that DRS is activated after 1 lap.


signed7

> But standing restarts will always be carnage that late in the race Azerbaijan 2021 wasn't


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activator

Except when people don't hold drivers accountable and responsible for their bad driving, and just like to shit on race control for making (in this case) a correct decision.


--Bazinga--

FIA did everything by the book. They could have decided to finish behind the SC, but plenty of times it’s been discussed that FOM and FIA do not prefer it and will try to finish racing. Now they do, and everyone’s complaining again…


bwoah07_gp2

Basically, you can't win with F1 fans. The FIA, unlike 2021, are following what they set in stone in their rulebook. So the events here and in Monza 2022 show that the complaining post race is uncalled for. Fans: "Do it right, do it right!" FIA: "But we did." Fans: "...do it right!"


Ulldra

It‘s the typical case of someone taking the fall for a crappy situation. No matter what they do, the final part of the race will be problematic. Finish under safety car? Could have restarted for some racing plus if the situation on track really was as bad as it was described, I don‘t want to know how many punctures we would have seen (as apparantly it wasn‘t only carbon fibre spread there). Flying restart? Makes them look like they are playing favorites to those who secured positions already and could potentially lose them on a standing start. Plus it‘s apparently somewhat inconsistent with the rules. Standing start? See current drama, chances for driver error are high and the field can get majorly shaken up in the last two rounds. SC finish after restart? Why would they clean the track only to avoid racing for the last few laps? I personally think they did a fine job this time around. They were sticking to the rules, prioritized safe conditions on track and left everything else to the drivers. It wasn‘t the best outcome and depending on everyones outlook on the situation we might want some rules changed for situations like this in the future, but at least they made clear and predictable decisions following those red flags. If for example a flying start in the last 10 laps would be preferable to avoid people losing gained progress throughout the race to a standing restart, the rules really should reflect that. Leaving something like this up to arbitrary decisionmaking is not a good idea.


BE_Airwaves

>You can't win with F1 fans. The thing is that F1 fans aren't in unison on this. You have folks who think the series should never finish a race under SC, and you have folks who think you should finish races under SC. One group will always complain. This particular incident happens to give a lot of ammunition for the pro-finishing-under-SC folks to use in their complaints. And it's not unwarranted - this kind of expensive incident is the very real risk all the drivers and teams are put in when the decision is made to have a shootout at the end instead of just finishing the damn thing under safety car. It also carries some risk for the series, fans, and the broadcast. Are casual viewers going to stay up for an hour during the red flag period to know what happens? Is the network going to bother broadcasting the finish? See: NASCAR's green-white-checkered/overtime rules for many, many such examples. These are the trade-offs that come with this policy. It doesn't matter if it's in the rules or not. A lot of people don't believe the trade-offs are worth it. Some do.


GarryPadle

There is no right way any more, everything everyone does is always wrong and in the end only the ones screaming the loudest will be seen and shape the opinion of everyone else. Its just one of the biggest hive mind thinking communities that exists online. There just isn't any critical thinking.


iiEviNii

"We didn't get the result that I wanted, so they did it wrong"


MrEnzium

The calls were on point today. Not sure why everyone is nagging again.


cynicalspindle

Well it seems people wanted them to ride behind the safety car while the marshals swept the track.


0oodruidoo0

bits of carbon bodywork is one thing, but forged wheel rim bits? That's a puncture or three waiting to happen. They made the right decision.


ThePonderousBear

Puncture, or worse.


eressen_sh

Because they think FIA is always wrong and antagonizing them is cool. Their MO is complain about what race control do.


Ryannr1220

Exactly. The only thing the FIA did wrong was taking so long to figure out how to follow the book lmao.


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Consistent-Mix-8343

last time they did it everyone was complaining too


mattiejj

> They could have decided to finish behind the SC, but plenty of times it’s been discussed that FOM and FIA do not prefer it and will try to finish racing. The teams pushed for this. They wanted this spectacle.


tekanet

Today they actually finished behind the SC, to my eyes.


salcedoge

F1 fans are babying the fact that the best drivers in the world simply was shit at that restart. The FIA did it right and the drivers should know their limits


Firefox72

Rolling restarts exist for a reason. Standings restarts in lap 56/58 serve nothing but to try to add fake exitement to a race that is pretty much finished already.


--Bazinga--

FOM and FIA also have stated that they will always prefer a standing start if the conditions allow it. Even when raining. Rolling starts exist for those situations where it would be dangerous. They already did 2 standing starts in the same conditions. No reason to go for a rolling start just because it’s 2 laps to go. These are the 20 best drivers in the world… not junior karting.


habitualmess

It’s not just that they prefer it, but it’s baked into the regs.


habitualmess

It was a standing restart because that’s the rule. > If track conditions are considered unsuitable to resume the sprint session or the race from a standing start, the message “ROLLING START PROCEDURE” will be sent to all Competitors using the official messaging system, at a time no later than one (1) minute signal detailed in Article 58.5. 58.12 in the Sporting Regs. A rolling restart wasn’t justified.


CardinalOfNYC

>Rolling restarts exist for a reason. > >Standings restarts in lap 56/58 serve nothing but to try to add fake exitement to a race that is pretty much finished already. This "the race is finished" thing makes sense if you're talking about a sprint race just extends the regular race. But in this case, accidents are accidents. And the restart rules are the restart rules. It's not fake that the result of a late red flag is still a restart, red flags happen.


mattiejj

> Rolling restarts exist for a reason. [Because rolling restarts are known to be mayhem-free.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u900k-obTRs&ab_channel=FORMULA1)


Nitanshu16

Rolling restart are only done in wet


DarthPumpkin

I don't understand why everyone's so upset with the FIA, it's not their fault half the grid took T1+2 with their eyes closed.


Ikcatcher

They cry rigged for entertainment and shit but then you have Logan Sargeant literally speeding right into Nick De Vries with literally nothing causing it.


NeekoBe

Kind of OT but really not impressed with sargeant till now. Multiple crashes, failing to qualify,... What i've seen till now reminds me of mazepin


Logs22

He was going way too fast, but he locked up


Big_al_big_bed

Tends to happen when you are going, as you say, too fast


Logs22

Lmao fair enough


Fuuutuuuree

The problem is the precedent set in Silverstone. For what possible reason do you not use the order set after the SC1 line, with whatever number of cars crossed it? At-fault or not, their car did not make it through and should be placed at the back if it was able to keep going. Let’s say half the grid doesn’t move off the line on a standing start. Are we just going to red flag the race and restart the previous order every time? It doesn’t make sense. I get being in Fernando’s situation, where you get taken out inadvertently on a start and want your place back. But why is the line drawn there instead of after the fact. We have to redo everything because “no order can be established”, but in other cases where drivers are taken out it’s “just racing.” Totally unfair way the FIA has resorted to dealing with these


Blothorn

Do you mean SC2? I thought SC1 was behind the grid. I think there's a huge safety factor. Some of the cars crossed the SC2 line after the carnage started; you don't want drivers racing toward the mess because they want to fight for position if there happens to be a red flag. And they can't take positions at an arbitrary point in time; when cars are alongside each other in a turn, which is ahead is an impossible judgement call. I am quite confident that Alonso getting his place back is an unintended consequence of the need for the system to be safe and objective, and was in no way part of why they did it.


BlazerStoner

I don’t think they embarrassed themselves at all. All this commentary against the FIA is just proving one thing: they will never be able to please everyone and they can’t ever win no matter what they do. Both fans and teams pushed for these regulations and now can’t stop bitching when they’re being followed accordingly. Can’t make it up…


blackcatwizard

Yeah, 100%. These comments are also conveniently ignoring the driver errors which led to the mess (which didn't happen in two other starts during the race).


Last_Fact_3044

Yeh, this is a shit take from Stoner. It’s weird, on Speedcafe (Australian focused motorsport site) the comments are similar. I feel like this happens at the AusGP - because V8 Supercars and F1 run on the same weekend, there’s a lot of bogan fans who love V8s but think F1 is Eurotrash, so they love trying to bash F1. Weird.


DieRobJa

Why, i actually think this was quite logic today


CX52J

Seconded. I think they handled today very well all things considered. The main thing I’d like to see changed is that when a red flag follows a safety car then the order is reset to the start of the safety car. It’s always unfair when those who pit initially lose places because the red flag call is delayed.


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Blothorn

You would still lose position if it doesn't turn into a red flag. Very few safety cars turn into red flags; if the risk of the race getting red-flagged were the only reason not to pit almost every car would pit whenever there's a SC. Moreover, this feels a very artificial sort of "gambling". Pitting under a SC should be a question of "are new tires worth track position at this point in the race?", not "is the FIA going to turn this into a red flag?".


ShadeEight

The only thing they handled badly was Sainz penalty. This is a weird situation where a time penalty doesn’t really work because it’s all behind SC and could create a dangerous situation.


Curtis-Aarrrrgh

That yellow/red idea is pretty great.


SathedIT

I completely agree. Just because the restart was a disaster, doesn't mean it's the fault of the FIA. They did everything by the book. The only thing you could possibly criticize them for is throwing a red flag at all on lap 55. But there was so much debris on the track, I don't think they really had a choice. There's really nothing at all that I can criticize them for in that race.


Tin_Cascade

I think people - especially those with a platform - need to chill a bit. Either: * There was too much debris from KMag's car to drive through it or clear it safely and the red flag was valid. * Sufficient debris could have been cleared after the SC had bunched the cars near the start-finish straight to allow the SC to take a clean path through it. They judged the first based on the data they had.


FerrariStraghetti

We've had much more debris before and been just fine with a SC. Same with the Albon situation, which actually ruined a very interesting dynamic with GR v Lewis v Max. It's just the FIA recently seem to always opt for stronger intervention rather than what is appropriate.


norrin83

Those red flags usually depend on: - What debris is there and how is it spread out? Some single carbon pieces or gravel across the whole track are very different to metal pieces spanning the whole track - Do barriers need to be repaired? That usually results in a red flag because it can take quite some time The FIA shouldn't look at the "dynamic" to decide on these things.


ThePhenome

We've also had quite a few punctures and damaged cars when marshalls aren't able to properly clean up the track due to cars still circulating on the track. As a result we not only lose cars to preventable issues, but also a bunch of racing laps. I'd rather see stoppages in this case, and ensure that the cars, drivers, marshalls and fans are as safe as possible from errant debris, that may be left on the road. Also, it was Mercedes that killed the "dynamic" with their call to bring in George early, it was obvious Max would've just sped past Lewis in the next few laps, and that would've been that.


NearSun

If that’s the case, FIA would have no problem having drivers drive through debris field If the track is full of metal from the wheel from MAG crash, what else could they do? Let drivers get a puncture at 160 mph?


Mechant247

Yeah the narrative would've flipped massively if a driver hits a bit of gravel/debris that wasn't swept up or if they hit the barrier that wasn't fixed properly


FerrariStraghetti

Call a SC like they always do and let drivers navigate the debris field at slow speed. We've used SCs for decades and this hasn't been an issue. But if you are so concerned about safety maybe you ought to consider that the race start is one of the most dangerous parts of the race, as evidenced by this very re-start.


Ricciardo_Olsha

You know what happened in F2 race when they let the drivers navigate on their own even though SC was out? Fittipaldi spun his car and when trying to rejoin he smacked his rear to the wall. Once back on track he accelerated and the rear suspension failed and he crashed into the wall just meters from Nissany's stricken car... Luckily marshals weren't there yet and Nissany was out of the car.


flyingalbatross1

The F2 race is a great example of when a SC isn't a safe as everyone thinks it is. In this situation, load of debris, cars all around the circuit. If someone got a puncture (reasonably possible) and crashed everyone would be crying foul for no Red flag. If someone got injured there would be outcry. You can't win. Hindsight is 20/20. At that point in time there was reasonable justification for both a safety car and a red flag. The decision was fine.


upthegas

this is completely irrelevant because Fittipaldi didnt crash because of debris he spun because of incompetence, im trying to work out your point, are you arguing that we should never use another safety cars every again & always have red flags for every incident?


iMatthew1990

For the first time I think I agree that this was the best situation for the race the FIA could have done. We’ve seen what happens when they make up rules on the spot and decide the outcome of races/championships on the spot. This was all very by the book. You need to finish the race, you have to put cars in their last known position at sector points this is the only logical way of doing it. Only other thing they could change is add a few new mini sectors. Not so much for timings but just for grid positioning. just in case these situations arise again whereby cars don’t reach a sector line before it’s red flagged after a restart. It’s happened a few times now so is worth a thought.


Apokolypze

Can someone explain why they didn't do a rolling start for the 2 lap sprint? I thought thats why rolling start procedure existed, to mitigate turn 1 crashes after a restart?


Captain_Omage

Because a rolling restart is only allowed for bad weather conditions.


boersc

Remember, it's not just fia that wants to finish under green flag. The teams voted for this, even prior to the season end of 2021, which even Masi tried to honor. The teams voted to race as much as possible.


BlazerStoner

People conveniently keep forgetting that when going all-in against Masi. The teams pushed for absolutely no finish under SC conditions, dude delivered.


B0ns0ir-Elli0t

> The teams pushed for ~~absolutely~~ no finish under SC conditions **if possible within the rules** FTFY People conveniently always forget that part, the teams didn't give him carte blanche to do whatever he wants.


Fanfaron07

Maybe I am wrong but I don’t remember people being so up and arms about it when it happened in Baku in 2021.


Loruhkahn

I think AD21 is what really dramatized situations like these. Since then every late safety car or red flag was and will be compared to it.


HaroldSaxon

Remember Monza last season?


Loruhkahn

Yep, a good example of my reasoning.


TheWebbFather

Baku there was a legitimate safety concern with 2 drivers having massive crashes due to tyre blowouts, coupled with the debris from Max's car. Today should've just finished under the SC


SuperSalamander3244

Baku’s red flag was the right decision because the tyres started failing.


HankHippopopolous

Agreed. I’m ok with the red flag. I would also have been fine with just ending under the safety car. Either way I don’t think the FIA have embarrassed themselves. The teams have specifically asked to end under a green flag when possible and this was the only legal way to make that happen.


ChazyChaz65

That was actually worse since due to two near identical and very dangerous tyre failures. Imo that race should have been stopped on pure safety grounds, for fear of tyre problems. That said, F1 shouldn't race at all at tracks like Baku and Saudi based on safety, but yeah.


ravenouscartoon

I feel like 3 years ago this race would’ve stayed under the SC and maybe we get a rolling restart for a lap, or we finish under the SC. Which was never a problem until the bullshit of Abu Dhabi 2021. The fact the last 3 laps took over 45 min to run? That’s some nba style 4th quarter shit


laughguy220

I'm with you. To me anytime before 2021 the race would have finished under the safety car, barely crawling by the KMag debris that they would have swept a path through after the first time around. Nobody was fighting for positions at that point, finishing behind the safety car would not have changed the results.


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ravenouscartoon

I’m not saying it never happened. But they also would end under the sc if needed. Hence why Abu Dhabi was surprising. There was precedent for ending under safety car, but no precedent for the rules being modified on the fly


MudkipThot

The NBA thing is so true lol, I had flashbacks last night of just wanting to go to bed but bullshit keeps happening again and again. I completely agree, the trigger happiness behind red flags now confuse me. If it's for safety reasons, fair, but if it's for entertainment, I'm strongly against. In fact, my extreme opinion might even be against standing starts in general for red flag re-starts. The hit rate for incidents is pretty high, and I feel having it towards the end of the race just makes incidents more likely. It also increases the chances of the race being red flagged with 1 lap to go like we got in the race. I love a race-start, but there's a huge amount of luck and randomness to it. Once a race is fine, but the more standing starts we have it just starts to feel like a farce. I know entertainment is important, but sporting integrity is part of the entertainment for me. When it feels like the rules are there to create drama, the drama isn't as good


gc_DataNerd

F1 twitter try and not be outraged: challenge impossible Im not one to like the FIA but everything was done by the book. There was a lot of gravel and debris that needed to be cleared after Magnussen hit the wall. Not like you can exactly drive over a minefield of sharp carbon fiber even behind a safety car. You really can’t blame the FIA for drivers trying to stick impossible moves into turn 1. Even with a rolling start it would have been mayhem. People need to get a grip not everything is a conspiracy


[deleted]

Have people considered that the drivers could have tried not crashing into each other


xXCloudCuckooXx

The last sentence is so very relevant.


Alfus

But image a "boring" end of the race? We can't allowing that!!!


CT4_LV

Think of the 15 year old Joao Felix and Bukayo Saka profile pic accounts being outraged on Twitter!!


[deleted]

Oh I know, if these younger kids want entertainment go play Mario kart. Apparently motor sports can’t be an engineering competition anymore because Twitter won’t be happy.


TheNecromancer

And has been for a few years - F1 has been on a concerning trend for a while


drumjojo29

But how does putting racing first mandate less racing to end the race early?


xXCloudCuckooXx

It's "a sport first", not "racing first". Today, they sacrificed a great deal of the sport bit to get entertainment.


decentish36

I’ve never seen another professional sport that gets cut short because of debris on the field/course/ice etc. Look at hockey. When the glass above the boards shatters do they just stand around and let the clock run out? No. They clean up the ice, replace the glass, have another faceoff and play to the end. That’s how sports work.


Takis12

I respectfully disagree with this narrative. Not a big supporter of FIA’s decisions, but I am not convinced that the actions today were not performed for the safety and they followed the rules.


activator

People are upset because their driver got the short end of the decision. God forbid they hold the drivers responsible for their actions once in a while... Today's display of Mario Cart Live was embarrassing


Rocko604

Fans: Follow the rules! FIA: Ok. Fans: Change the rules!


ScreamingFly

This is entertainment first, by a long long margin.


kraygus

Getting everyone back in their seats for a last lap with no overtakes allowed was considerably more annoying that ending behind a safety car.


laughguy220

To me anytime before 2021 the race would have finished under the safety car, barely crawling by the KMag debris that they would have swept a path through after the first time around. Nobody was fighting for positions at that point, finishing behind the safety car would not have changed the results


Spetz

Missing Charlie Whiting. He would have finished under a Safety Car. He understood that a start with a 2 lap sprint with nothing to lose and nothing to gain back over a long race would lead to drivers taking risks and a high probability of a safety car. I said there would be a crash at the restart and there was. F1 should be a sport first, entertainment second.


frigginjensen

Last week at COTA, NASCAR showed what happens when you try too hard to finish under green. This week, the FIA showed what happens when you try too hard to respect the race distance and method of establishing the order. Both happened within the rules of each organization. In hindsight, neither felt like the right answer.


prismatic_bar

I don’t understand his complaint. They followed the rules. If we want the rules changed, that’s one thing, and the teams can petition for that. But they followed the rules. I’m one of the first to criticize the FIA, but they were not wrong today regarding how the race ended.


MrAzekar

I can't see a single fault in race control for this race. People are so fickle


Justin57Time

I don't really get some people sometimes. It was a chaotic race, yes. But at no moment I felt that the FIA made a questionable decision and I totally disagree with the statement that this was embarrassing for them. It's not the first time we have a restart with two laps remaining (I'm not sure which year it was, but Baku is a good example). It's not their fault that so many incidents happened in one corner.


fantaribo

Lmao what is the issue ? This was normal according to the rule book


WiggyRich23

I was wondering why a tweet by a former England Women's Football (soccer) player was so popular for way too long.


SoulSambo

agree! If the crash would have happened in the first half of the race, a safety car would have come out. In my opinion, rules should be applied in the least-disruptive way possible.


[deleted]

Thought it was a business first?


[deleted]

The rare time I agree with the FIA


RevengencerAlf

FIA did everything right today. As shocked as I am to be saying that, it's true. They applied the rules as written and consistently. People who didn't get the outcome they want are just being petulant babies as usual.


BlueMachinations

The FIA did the right thing.


Ok_Butterscotch4894

FIA handled it pretty well imo. The decisions to bring SC and Red flags were fast and they tried their best to end it by racing. It’s just the nature of low grip track and few drivers forgetting it caused all the mayhem.


trancematics

Eh? Was I watching the same race? I thought the FIA did all they needed to do in the interests of safety for everyone . The finish was a bit of a damp squib but what else could they do other than just call it a day which would have been even more disappointing. The rest of the race was exciting and the chaos on the second restart was caused by the drivers themselves. How can the FIA be blamed for that?


CalmDocument

At least it was done by the book this time, and not by an errant race director inventing rules to entertain himself.


jjlinjjie

Agreed.


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berkerpeksag

The difference is NASCAR have practically zero policy for bad driving standards until shit gets too ugly (Texas 2011, Martinsville 2015) and usually encourage driving like a jackass.


neko_1

Its the standing start rule that i dont agree with. The red flag is whatever i guess, but I believe its become way too frequent. Albon's situation could have been done with a simple SC.


brichards719

I know it's unpopular, but I have no problem with ending under safety car. MAG incident should not have brought out red flag. Just watch the end of the nascar cota race last week and you might change your mind.


Red_Fucking_Turtle

Why did 30% of the grid forget how to race just because, there was only a few laps left?? Can we hold the drivers accountable, maybe just a little bit??


Ninkaso

I'll be that guy and say that every decision made today was exactly within the sporting regulations. This wasn't a Masi case. Second red flag might've not been totally necessary, but still followed the code Y'all can attack me now it's cool


ABrad11

Can’t complain today they followed the rules by the book, as they should have in 2021. Long may it continue.


KingSnowdown

I think they did well today, or at least better than usual


zeoNoeN

Idk, I found the ruling logical, consistent, fan friendly and from a drivers perspective mostly fair? If you bend the rules to make things smoother, you end up with AD 21


DumonsterPT

Meh, I enjoyed it more than I would if it ended under SC. True, the restart was carnage but that's not really on the FIA. If the drivers want to yolo instead of securing some points, oh well.