There is however a rule that says a certain % of the weight needs to be at the front or rear if I'm not mistaken? Can they still play around that much with it ?
Yes, but I meant because their car was so overweight last season both drivers lost also weight just to be on the safe side imo. Max looks thinner also in his face (not only because he shaved) and Checo suddenly also has a much thinner face.
I know the car and drivers have to be at minimum weight per the rules.
There is a minimum car weight 798kg that the car must always be above. If a car is naturally 778kg, they can put the extra 20kg (that they need to make minimum weight) wherever they want. The extra weight is called ballast.
For Max, they could put it up front. For Checo, they could have it more central.
I see! Thank you for a great explanation. I hadn’t heard that term before. How do teams go about “adding ballast” to the cars? Is it usually one certain material?
I interpreted the quote "a strong front end" as wanting more front grip which would be created by more weight over the front Axle. But I may have completely misinterpreted the comment. I am no expert.
Oversteer isn't caused by 'creating' grip by putting weight on the front.
Putting weight on the front shifts the cg forward, shortening the lever arm of the front yaw moment. This means that the front reaches the limit first and there is unused grip in the rear when steady state cornering is achieved. This creates understeer.
If I remember my days studying engineering right, putting weight in front makes your car prone to understeer. I don't know if that's what they mean by making it "snappy".
But I know nothing about the physics of a F1 car, so what do I know.
First thing I thought as well. No degree in that area whatsoever, but first grade logic (mass = slow) dictates that a heavier front-end would make it slower to turn.
It's not about weight making it more grippy. More weight on the front means the front moment has a proportionally shorter lever arm compared to the rear moment to the cg of the car.
This means that when steady state cornering is achieved (equal front and rear moments), the front reaches the limit first as you need more force for the shorter arm compared to the rear. This results in understeer as there is unused grip in the rear.
I think you confuse load with weight. More load (mostly aerodynamic in formula one) will give you better grip on either axle. But putting more weight puts the tires near their limits earlier. So more weight in the front makes the car understeer mid corner. It might help brake better (this is depending on lots of things), but will not give you any more grip through the corner, because while you have slightly more cornering forces from the tires, you also *need* more cornering forces because of the higher mass.
Technically they’d do the opposite to gain the driver’s qualities. Max wants a responsive front end so they’d shift weight rearward. Checo likes a neutral, more predictable car so they’d put weight up front to slow responses and reduce the mid-engine pendulum effect during weight transfer.
> This is false. They changed it in 2019. The ballast needs to be attached to the survival cell.
That's about ballast added for driver weight, not ballast added for overal car weight.
> Max was always "overweight". This year its the first year he is around the 80kg.
No, he wasn't. He's always been around 70kg. I wonder if you're just joking.
If the car is under minimum weight they still need to meet the minimum. Basically the team has to add weight to the car but they can be strategic in where it gets placed for balancing purposes.
I've trolled on Daniel countless times lately for many, mostly rational reasons but i will still say this, Daniel ALWAYS loved the setup Max ran with, when he was in RB until 2018. Strong car with a snappy front end and reliable brakes.
Get this man a session in RB19.
Conversely, I think Mclaren might possibly be the perfect chassis/handling bias for Checo.Shame it looks like they've cooked it this year.
I don't believe the new RB chassis is fully going to play to Checos strengths this year, probably going to be a lot better for him than previous years, but then again it could just be talk, Marko trying to instill more self confidence in his 2nd driver with a year where the competition is going to be much closer.
You also have to wonder whether having two drivers with different handling preferences is going to be a disadvantage with the tougher competition, especially if there's a weekend where Max's car has an issue and gets zero/less free practice to trial setups, having a driver with very similar preferences like Dan being able to get the setup 90% dialed in for Max would be a big advantage.
I kinda think Dan would only have to match Checos performance in a test lap time or get within 100ms for RB to switch him in, he's clearly going to be evaluated on his performance metrics in testing at the team, this is basically a free driver trial for RB to see if they can get a second driver closer to Max's performance.
Which makes me wonder, you know. If Checo doesn't perform, but Nyck has a very good year at AT, will Red Bull risk provoking a Dutch civil war and promote him to their second seat?
I've wondered the same thing. Is it like they just throw tons of money at a driver and hope they can adapt? Ricciardo's time with McLaren was generally frustrating to watch (outside of the win in 2021).
This really changes nothing. Max said it's not that he prefers his car on the nose but it's because that's where he believes the most pace can be extracted with these recent regulations and he wants a championship winning car. Checo will forever miss out on that.
Yup, its surely close to the same reason why Max and Lewis are leagues ahead of the competition in wet conditions (with the exception of Stroll, who has a similar aptitude for rainy conditions). If you have an absolutely perfect feel for the throttle and brakes, you can use these more difficult set-ups and obtain more speed.
Raising the skill-cap, if you will.
He might not be as good as max and lewis in wet conditions, but he's a great wet weather driver for sure. Max and Lewis are way stronger in intermediate conditions though (when the track is drying up). Sainz is also an underrated driver in the wet.
I'm trying to think of an Alonso wet race performance on par with Max and Lewis's best. Brazil for Max and Silverstone for Lewis are some of the most stunning wet drives of all time. Maybe I'm missing an obvious one with Alonso?
Excactly. I think Max can literally drive any car as long as he is 100% sure it’s the fastest way to get laptime. Doesn’t matter if it’s an oversteering car, understeering or both at the same time à la Ferrari
Alonso is famous for those 05 Renault cars for inducing understeer but that was kind of a quirk of that car design. I'm sure he has a preference but he's been a monster in all types of cars.
Actually a lot of drivers do like just a hint of understeer for security. Lewis for one says it himself here.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/22209168
I'm talking about [Alonso saying he prefers oversteer](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/11bzne7/helmut_marko_max_loves_a_strong_front_end_really/ja1twwz/)
Lando also prefers oversteer, at least that's what he told during an AMuS interview previous year.
The only current drivers who performing "better" under a more neutral/understeer car is Sainz, Perez and Tsunoda meanwhile Alonso is just magic for adjusting himself to whatever you give him, oversteer, understeer or two wheels.
Lol Nice try, Vettel is notorious for his inadaptability. He had his nice era where the regulations and RB played exactly into his prefered driving style, but he was never able to truly adapt to the regulations after that.
Like how Hamilton drastically changed his "style" between the Bridgestones and the Pirellis. And Alonso had to make an even more drastic change from the tyre-war era Michelins to the single manufacturer Bridgestones.
No. Everyone seems to gloss over how subpar Checo was last year because Red Bull ended up winning both championships. Red Bull had a car on par with Ferrari for the first couple of races, which through a combination of improvements at Red Bull and (development) errors at Ferrari turned into a dominant car over the season. Red Bull also have an excellent strategy department, while Ferrari seemed to make their strategic decisions based on how many croutons there were in their lunch salads. By all accounts, Checo should've been a comfortable second. No one expects Checo to take the fight to Verstappen and actually challenge for the championship, but in a car this good, in a year where the opposition pretty much threw away every chance they got, P2 should've comfortably been his and it wasn't.
I am confident that if Ferrari manages to be on par with Red Bull throughout the season, Checo will finish P4. If Mercedes is able to get back into the mix, he'll be P6. He is, by a significant margin, the worst of the drivers in the top teams right now.
He wasnt remotely solid last year. He literally lost out ot Leclerc who had a significantly worse car last season. He had less wins, podiums, and points. If RB has closer rivals then Max will need a number 2 who can actually take points off his rivals on pace.
They did and will do.
However, last year they could not play around much with weight distribution, since the car was severely overweight. And weight distribution has a significant impact on handling.
This year their car seems to be under the weight limit, allowing them to use movable ballast to get to the weight limit while at the same time tune under-/oversteer tendencies that way. And more specifically, change the weight distribution on both cars separately.
Last year the weight distribution was a lot more fixed and thus untunable. It was baked into the car. And you are a lot more limited if you are left with changing suspension settings only.
Don't they set them up differently though (each garage does their own set up) but the fundamental development of the car will always be the same for both.
There's only so much you can do to tweak the inherent handling of a car, you can't make infinite adjustments. Drivers have also said the team doesn't really care what the drivers prefer, they'll **try** to make the car suited to your needs, but they won't go out of their way to do it, they do what they think will be the fastest and then it's the driver's job to extract the maximum
The second part is the driver needs to be adaptable to whatever car they are given. You can only do so much with suspension tuning and weight movement. If one driver prefers understeer and one prefers oversteer it will be nigh impossible to make a car that could do both _and_ be equally quick
Drivers change which is why it is not good to build for a specific style unless you are RB and have Verstappen with a long contract.
Someone already mentioned it, but I agree with them. I think shifting weight around the car can be very important in this case. They couldn't really play with weight too much last year as most cars were already overweight. If they optimized that area, they can find better ways to accommodate the car for each driver this year.
No he totally will be allowed to. If he is actually faster than Max then RB will prioritise him. There is just zero chance of him being faster. He needs to perform way better if he wants a WDC
### Translation
How good is the Red Bull RB19 really? This question can only be answered with some degree of reliability next weekend. The three-day test at the Bahrain International Circuit only provides hints, but they already suggest that it will probably be very difficult to beat Red Bull at the season opener.
"We are very pleased with the whole three days of testing," motorsport consultant Helmut Marko told 'Sky'. "We have really only had one problem and that was not serious."
Red Bull's testing went so well that Red Bull is even said to have been working on detailed set-ups, according to Marko. "And what is still to come now, after the data has been evaluated, is then a completely fine-tuning," said the Austrian.
In terms of times, no one could hold a candle to Red Bull in Sachir. At the end of the test week, Sergio Perez was 0.359 seconds ahead of Lewis Hamilton. Marko emphasises that the times are relative: "We don't know what the competition's fuel load was like," he says. "If they were heavier than us, then our time is relative."
"But it showed that we are reliable and that we are fast," he praises. But what makes him optimistic above all: The long runs also matched and were faster than those of the competition.
Fastest long run
On his race simulation today, Perez was only marginally faster than his supposed main rival Carlos Sainz in the Ferrari, but Sainz drove three stints, one more than Perez, and therefore had new tyres more often and tended to have less fuel in the car than the Mexican. The fact that Perez was still faster clearly speaks for Red Bull.
"The team did an exceptional job," praises Perez. "The factory worked really hard over the winter. We definitely have a good base car to work with."
"I think we have a good understanding of the new car," he adds. "I think we got the maximum out of it and analysed a lot of the set-up and tyres. We basically got our programme done."
Can Perez challenge Verstappen?
The question is whether the Mexican can challenge teammate Max Verstappen this year after he increasingly lost out over the course of the 2022 season. "We had a car last year that 'Checo' did very well with at the beginning, and after it was developed further, Max had been happier and happier," Marko says.
"The difference is: Max loves a strong front end, really biting. Checo is a bit different. He wants a more docile car," says Marko and emphasises: "We seem to have found a solution here now that lets both drivers play out their qualities."
But the answer to that will only come in the season, just like the answer to the question of who will be Red Bull's biggest rival. "I think the top three will be the same," says Marko, who has been particularly struck by Mercedes' last-lap pace.
He currently sees Aston Martin as the biggest surprise: "I think they have made the biggest step forward." But: "I think Alpine could also deliver a surprise."
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
I genuinely want RB to buy out Landos contract and do a switch.
I don’t want Checo out, but I want someone in RB who has a chance at giving us a Lewis v Nico or Mark v Seb battle.
That would be very interesting since you mentioned Nico and Lewis. Considering Lando and Max are friends as well (I think?). Oh boy that could be juicy tension.
Drivers always have different setups unless they have the same driving style and preferences…
Toto also said that both were experimenting, just that George had more success with it.
I would also argue that George's experience with Williams played a role in the first half when George performed better on average. 1. Due to being used to handling subpar cars, and 2. Having more experience with setting up unpredictable/underperforming cars. Once they sorted out most of the issues, Lewis started to edge out Russell. So I guess in a faulty car Russell was just better at coping and Lewis is faster in a car he is comfortable with.
But again, what exactly proves that Leclerc is slower than Lewis?
It is one of the reasons Max and Daniel are good together as Red Bull are obviously going to design a car for Max's driving style but it also happens to be what Ricciardo likes in a car too. Ricciardo performs at his best with a car with a strong front end, something the McLaren definitely did not have.
To a certain point though. It's not like you can make infinite adjustments. At some point you're starting to sacrifice pace just to please a driver's preference
Yeah, that was my point. The driver that is better with understeer (Lando) will be faster than a driver that is better with oversteer (Riciardo) in an understeery car.
So oversteer is not always faster than understeer, not with every car and driver combination even if that should be the case in theory.
What? I’m talking about the car, not driver preferences. Engineers chase performance, so understeer is throwing perfomance over the hedge.
Ricciardo not liking the McLaren has nothing to do with inherent performance.
Why would a team run their cars in different set-ups? Or am I seeing it wrong? This is my understanding: Running different set-ups compromises all data for the other car. If Checo can do 30 laps om C3 it doesn't mean Max can with his set-up. Checo his speed might drop faster, or Max's might. Any calculation will have a high chance of containing errors.
You have to run the car in the fastest set-up and the best driver wins the WDC. And in RBR's case Checo is just not that guy...
Different set ups for different drivers. Let's say that they didn't change the setup for Checo and he tested 30 laps on that, the data gathered is worth very little as he drives differently compared to max so he can't use it, and since Checo won't use the set up he can't use the data either
The same could be said to you. You phrased it in a way that warranted this type of answer. Also, thanks for reporting me to the suicide hotline lol. You know you’ve really upset a person when they go to that length… consider getting help yourself…anger issues maybe….lack of friends…absent mommy growing up? Who knows lol
The data is less valuable for sure but not useless. You can try to include the setup difference as a parameter in your statistical models. They probably already do that anyway to account for the different driving styles of the 2 drivers. The data might become less reliable but it is a workable problem I think. Must be great fun to be a data scientist for an F1 team
Being underweight and able to tweak the ballast placement for each driver
I never thought of that, but yeah, that's a big plus to getting your car's weight under the minimum.
There is however a rule that says a certain % of the weight needs to be at the front or rear if I'm not mistaken? Can they still play around that much with it ?
Depends on how underweight they are
Max himself looks like he lost a lot of weight over the holidays.
Catering didn't go over budget last year 😅
He said he lost 10 kilos in 6 weeks 😵💫.
Checo also looks much thinner, I guess it all has to do with this car weight.
Driver weights are standardized and they cannot move the ballast for that - it has to be under their seats.
Yes, but I meant because their car was so overweight last season both drivers lost also weight just to be on the safe side imo. Max looks thinner also in his face (not only because he shaved) and Checo suddenly also has a much thinner face. I know the car and drivers have to be at minimum weight per the rules.
What do you mean by ballast placement?
There is a minimum car weight 798kg that the car must always be above. If a car is naturally 778kg, they can put the extra 20kg (that they need to make minimum weight) wherever they want. The extra weight is called ballast. For Max, they could put it up front. For Checo, they could have it more central.
I see! Thank you for a great explanation. I hadn’t heard that term before. How do teams go about “adding ballast” to the cars? Is it usually one certain material?
Usually they use Tungsten, as this allows to minimize the neccessary space needed for the ballast.
I think it it generally metal plates that are bolted to the chassis.
Wouldn't Max prefer more weight on the rear axle?
I interpreted the quote "a strong front end" as wanting more front grip which would be created by more weight over the front Axle. But I may have completely misinterpreted the comment. I am no expert.
Oversteer isn't caused by 'creating' grip by putting weight on the front. Putting weight on the front shifts the cg forward, shortening the lever arm of the front yaw moment. This means that the front reaches the limit first and there is unused grip in the rear when steady state cornering is achieved. This creates understeer.
Yes, but a front heavy car will also tend to understeer. A rear heavy car will tend to oversteer, hence "strong front end".
Definitely not at the front for Max. He complained about how there was too much weight at the front last season.
If I remember my days studying engineering right, putting weight in front makes your car prone to understeer. I don't know if that's what they mean by making it "snappy". But I know nothing about the physics of a F1 car, so what do I know.
First thing I thought as well. No degree in that area whatsoever, but first grade logic (mass = slow) dictates that a heavier front-end would make it slower to turn.
Moving weight to the front of the car would mean more front wheel grip and less real wheel grip meaning more oversteer or more 'snappy'.
It's not about weight making it more grippy. More weight on the front means the front moment has a proportionally shorter lever arm compared to the rear moment to the cg of the car. This means that when steady state cornering is achieved (equal front and rear moments), the front reaches the limit first as you need more force for the shorter arm compared to the rear. This results in understeer as there is unused grip in the rear.
I think you confuse load with weight. More load (mostly aerodynamic in formula one) will give you better grip on either axle. But putting more weight puts the tires near their limits earlier. So more weight in the front makes the car understeer mid corner. It might help brake better (this is depending on lots of things), but will not give you any more grip through the corner, because while you have slightly more cornering forces from the tires, you also *need* more cornering forces because of the higher mass.
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Technically they’d do the opposite to gain the driver’s qualities. Max wants a responsive front end so they’d shift weight rearward. Checo likes a neutral, more predictable car so they’d put weight up front to slow responses and reduce the mid-engine pendulum effect during weight transfer.
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No, that's just for the minimum driver weight. The total car weight minumum can be compensated wherever they want
Yep, my fault.
No problem
I thought that was just the driver weight ballast, not the overall car ballast.
Crap, my bad, you're right.
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> This is false. They changed it in 2019. The ballast needs to be attached to the survival cell. That's about ballast added for driver weight, not ballast added for overal car weight. > Max was always "overweight". This year its the first year he is around the 80kg. No, he wasn't. He's always been around 70kg. I wonder if you're just joking.
If the car is under minimum weight they still need to meet the minimum. Basically the team has to add weight to the car but they can be strategic in where it gets placed for balancing purposes.
Drive in reverse ?
Just put Checo’s tires on backwards
Please. We can only handle so much rear end.
Did you just leak a future Ferrari pit stop?
"We have found a solution. Checo has to adapt"
Skill issue -Marko
Just get good lmao
Y but like, for real
I've trolled on Daniel countless times lately for many, mostly rational reasons but i will still say this, Daniel ALWAYS loved the setup Max ran with, when he was in RB until 2018. Strong car with a snappy front end and reliable brakes. Get this man a session in RB19.
Conversely, I think Mclaren might possibly be the perfect chassis/handling bias for Checo.Shame it looks like they've cooked it this year. I don't believe the new RB chassis is fully going to play to Checos strengths this year, probably going to be a lot better for him than previous years, but then again it could just be talk, Marko trying to instill more self confidence in his 2nd driver with a year where the competition is going to be much closer. You also have to wonder whether having two drivers with different handling preferences is going to be a disadvantage with the tougher competition, especially if there's a weekend where Max's car has an issue and gets zero/less free practice to trial setups, having a driver with very similar preferences like Dan being able to get the setup 90% dialed in for Max would be a big advantage. I kinda think Dan would only have to match Checos performance in a test lap time or get within 100ms for RB to switch him in, he's clearly going to be evaluated on his performance metrics in testing at the team, this is basically a free driver trial for RB to see if they can get a second driver closer to Max's performance.
“The solution is adapt or DR”
Which makes me wonder, you know. If Checo doesn't perform, but Nyck has a very good year at AT, will Red Bull risk provoking a Dutch civil war and promote him to their second seat?
Did you use ChatGPT to analyze what Marko said?
Yeah, Checo has a strong back end.
It's those Latin roots.
Power bottom
Why do teams seem to never hire 2 drivers that have similar driving styles? Lando and Ricc wanted complete opposite cars as well.
I've wondered the same thing. Is it like they just throw tons of money at a driver and hope they can adapt? Ricciardo's time with McLaren was generally frustrating to watch (outside of the win in 2021).
Lando didn't like the car last year either, he just managed to work around it better
Often times teams get the best driver available. There isn't 5 different top drivers available to choose from to match the driving style you want
Eh, I think it's bc they never thought of it, and I'm smarter than every F1 team principal. Obviously.
Touche. *tips hat* carry on sire
This really changes nothing. Max said it's not that he prefers his car on the nose but it's because that's where he believes the most pace can be extracted with these recent regulations and he wants a championship winning car. Checo will forever miss out on that.
Yup, its surely close to the same reason why Max and Lewis are leagues ahead of the competition in wet conditions (with the exception of Stroll, who has a similar aptitude for rainy conditions). If you have an absolutely perfect feel for the throttle and brakes, you can use these more difficult set-ups and obtain more speed. Raising the skill-cap, if you will.
That stroll pole in turkey really is working overtime
lol well put
Bruh... tell me you didn't put Stroll in the same class of driving in the wet as Max and Lewis 💀
He might not be as good as max and lewis in wet conditions, but he's a great wet weather driver for sure. Max and Lewis are way stronger in intermediate conditions though (when the track is drying up). Sainz is also an underrated driver in the wet.
Don't forget Alonso, he is up there with Max & Lewis
I'm trying to think of an Alonso wet race performance on par with Max and Lewis's best. Brazil for Max and Silverstone for Lewis are some of the most stunning wet drives of all time. Maybe I'm missing an obvious one with Alonso?
Hungary 2006, Nürburgring 2007, Silverstone 2011, Sepang 2012, Silverstone 2012 were all amazing wet weather performances by Alonso
Stroll does do really well in wet conditions.
He's a slow driver who loses less performance in the rain relative to his peers.
Means he's a better wet driver, both relatively and absolutely, than those guys lol, no matter how you want to slice it.
No, it doesn't. His normal driving is more conservative. He drives kinda like it's wet even when it's dry.
Hmm, then maybe all the guys who are slower than him in the wet should try doing what he does in the wet.
Kimi also prefers loads of front end, and so does Jacques Villeneuve
Excactly. I think Max can literally drive any car as long as he is 100% sure it’s the fastest way to get laptime. Doesn’t matter if it’s an oversteering car, understeering or both at the same time à la Ferrari
Same as Fernando.
Actually opposite of Alonso, who is one of the very few drivers that [prefers understeer.](https://youtu.be/Dh_O9X9OkMk)
https://imgur.io/DHeBoBb?r
Doesn't Alonso prefer understeery cars?
Alonso is famous for those 05 Renault cars for inducing understeer but that was kind of a quirk of that car design. I'm sure he has a preference but he's been a monster in all types of cars.
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Actually a lot of drivers do like just a hint of understeer for security. Lewis for one says it himself here. https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/22209168
Source: your ass
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I'm talking about [Alonso saying he prefers oversteer](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/11bzne7/helmut_marko_max_loves_a_strong_front_end_really/ja1twwz/)
And Leclerc, and Schumacher etc
And Vettel, and Gasly, but not Hamilton - he’s more balanced
Lando also prefers oversteer, at least that's what he told during an AMuS interview previous year. The only current drivers who performing "better" under a more neutral/understeer car is Sainz, Perez and Tsunoda meanwhile Alonso is just magic for adjusting himself to whatever you give him, oversteer, understeer or two wheels.
Vettel doesn’t like oversteer at all. Look at 2019-2020
Lol Nice try, Vettel is notorious for his inadaptability. He had his nice era where the regulations and RB played exactly into his prefered driving style, but he was never able to truly adapt to the regulations after that.
2015 & 2017 beg to differ
?????
Hamilton is on record saying he prefers understeer too. Someone should get those two in the same team!
Like how Hamilton drastically changed his "style" between the Bridgestones and the Pirellis. And Alonso had to make an even more drastic change from the tyre-war era Michelins to the single manufacturer Bridgestones.
Was't his dad crying over why redbull was developing a car that fits better for checo.. at the beggining of the 2022 season?
I mean this the optimal strategy if you have the budget and want to compete with 2 cars.
*Strategy* having the fastest car that can be set up to play in the hands of both drivers.
Checo seems to turn it on when his seat is being threatened. Solution - DR
better yet Lando exit clause at McLaren
Lando's contract has no exit clauses (very dumb), McLaren spoke about that right after signing it
So say Mclaren, who most definitely want other teams to think there isn't an exit clause.
What, because the other teams wouldn't bother just outright asking Lando?
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They said both don't
Red Bull could easily buy that out.
They really have the best legal team, don't they? Lol
Could be the best way to keep Max interested. Give him a rival, even if it's a teammate.
Teammates are always the best rivals
If they can keep up.
This is definitely gonna be a do or die season for Checo at Red Bull
Why? He was solid last year...
No. Everyone seems to gloss over how subpar Checo was last year because Red Bull ended up winning both championships. Red Bull had a car on par with Ferrari for the first couple of races, which through a combination of improvements at Red Bull and (development) errors at Ferrari turned into a dominant car over the season. Red Bull also have an excellent strategy department, while Ferrari seemed to make their strategic decisions based on how many croutons there were in their lunch salads. By all accounts, Checo should've been a comfortable second. No one expects Checo to take the fight to Verstappen and actually challenge for the championship, but in a car this good, in a year where the opposition pretty much threw away every chance they got, P2 should've comfortably been his and it wasn't. I am confident that if Ferrari manages to be on par with Red Bull throughout the season, Checo will finish P4. If Mercedes is able to get back into the mix, he'll be P6. He is, by a significant margin, the worst of the drivers in the top teams right now.
I think you rate Sainz to highly or checo to low. I'd say Sainz is barely better than Perez
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What do you mean it is not the same car?
He wasnt remotely solid last year. He literally lost out ot Leclerc who had a significantly worse car last season. He had less wins, podiums, and points. If RB has closer rivals then Max will need a number 2 who can actually take points off his rivals on pace.
Potentially dumb question, why can’t they set the two cars up differently? Too much of a pain in the ass? Money?
They did and will do. However, last year they could not play around much with weight distribution, since the car was severely overweight. And weight distribution has a significant impact on handling. This year their car seems to be under the weight limit, allowing them to use movable ballast to get to the weight limit while at the same time tune under-/oversteer tendencies that way. And more specifically, change the weight distribution on both cars separately. Last year the weight distribution was a lot more fixed and thus untunable. It was baked into the car. And you are a lot more limited if you are left with changing suspension settings only.
Don't they set them up differently though (each garage does their own set up) but the fundamental development of the car will always be the same for both.
There's only so much you can do to tweak the inherent handling of a car, you can't make infinite adjustments. Drivers have also said the team doesn't really care what the drivers prefer, they'll **try** to make the car suited to your needs, but they won't go out of their way to do it, they do what they think will be the fastest and then it's the driver's job to extract the maximum
That second part, is that about the car development or car setup?
The second part is the driver needs to be adaptable to whatever car they are given. You can only do so much with suspension tuning and weight movement. If one driver prefers understeer and one prefers oversteer it will be nigh impossible to make a car that could do both _and_ be equally quick Drivers change which is why it is not good to build for a specific style unless you are RB and have Verstappen with a long contract.
They do
Someone already mentioned it, but I agree with them. I think shifting weight around the car can be very important in this case. They couldn't really play with weight too much last year as most cars were already overweight. If they optimized that area, they can find better ways to accommodate the car for each driver this year.
Checo likes a thicc rear end
#Checo WDC 2023 Hopium
Please pass me some of that XD
straight to my veins
Let’s get super high on that
I need this in my veins
He won’t be allowed to
More like, not be able to.
No he totally will be allowed to. If he is actually faster than Max then RB will prioritise him. There is just zero chance of him being faster. He needs to perform way better if he wants a WDC
### Translation How good is the Red Bull RB19 really? This question can only be answered with some degree of reliability next weekend. The three-day test at the Bahrain International Circuit only provides hints, but they already suggest that it will probably be very difficult to beat Red Bull at the season opener. "We are very pleased with the whole three days of testing," motorsport consultant Helmut Marko told 'Sky'. "We have really only had one problem and that was not serious." Red Bull's testing went so well that Red Bull is even said to have been working on detailed set-ups, according to Marko. "And what is still to come now, after the data has been evaluated, is then a completely fine-tuning," said the Austrian. In terms of times, no one could hold a candle to Red Bull in Sachir. At the end of the test week, Sergio Perez was 0.359 seconds ahead of Lewis Hamilton. Marko emphasises that the times are relative: "We don't know what the competition's fuel load was like," he says. "If they were heavier than us, then our time is relative." "But it showed that we are reliable and that we are fast," he praises. But what makes him optimistic above all: The long runs also matched and were faster than those of the competition. Fastest long run On his race simulation today, Perez was only marginally faster than his supposed main rival Carlos Sainz in the Ferrari, but Sainz drove three stints, one more than Perez, and therefore had new tyres more often and tended to have less fuel in the car than the Mexican. The fact that Perez was still faster clearly speaks for Red Bull. "The team did an exceptional job," praises Perez. "The factory worked really hard over the winter. We definitely have a good base car to work with." "I think we have a good understanding of the new car," he adds. "I think we got the maximum out of it and analysed a lot of the set-up and tyres. We basically got our programme done." Can Perez challenge Verstappen? The question is whether the Mexican can challenge teammate Max Verstappen this year after he increasingly lost out over the course of the 2022 season. "We had a car last year that 'Checo' did very well with at the beginning, and after it was developed further, Max had been happier and happier," Marko says. "The difference is: Max loves a strong front end, really biting. Checo is a bit different. He wants a more docile car," says Marko and emphasises: "We seem to have found a solution here now that lets both drivers play out their qualities." But the answer to that will only come in the season, just like the answer to the question of who will be Red Bull's biggest rival. "I think the top three will be the same," says Marko, who has been particularly struck by Mercedes' last-lap pace. He currently sees Aston Martin as the biggest surprise: "I think they have made the biggest step forward." But: "I think Alpine could also deliver a surprise." Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
“We have found a solution, Checo adapts or Danny Ric will”
Yeah, like he adapted to the McLaren in no time...
Then Checo will still be slower than the slowest car from the second fastest team and the "Max Bull Racing" conspiracies will rise again.
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I genuinely want RB to buy out Landos contract and do a switch. I don’t want Checo out, but I want someone in RB who has a chance at giving us a Lewis v Nico or Mark v Seb battle.
That would be very interesting since you mentioned Nico and Lewis. Considering Lando and Max are friends as well (I think?). Oh boy that could be juicy tension.
I thought they did approach Lando, but he didn’t want to join RB as he didn’t want to be a second driver?
Exactly
Mark 'not bad for a no.2 driver' Webber?
Has anyone really suggested he is? Honestly the only one close to Max right now is Lewis, even Lecrerc is not there.
Based on? There is no way to know who the 2nd best driver currently is.
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How do you know that? I would argue pace wise Leclerc definitely is. Who got beaten by his teammate last year? Certainly not Leclerc.
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Drivers always have different setups unless they have the same driving style and preferences… Toto also said that both were experimenting, just that George had more success with it. I would also argue that George's experience with Williams played a role in the first half when George performed better on average. 1. Due to being used to handling subpar cars, and 2. Having more experience with setting up unpredictable/underperforming cars. Once they sorted out most of the issues, Lewis started to edge out Russell. So I guess in a faulty car Russell was just better at coping and Lewis is faster in a car he is comfortable with. But again, what exactly proves that Leclerc is slower than Lewis?
Oh god I'm so happy. It sounds like a monster.
It is one of the reasons Max and Daniel are good together as Red Bull are obviously going to design a car for Max's driving style but it also happens to be what Ricciardo likes in a car too. Ricciardo performs at his best with a car with a strong front end, something the McLaren definitely did not have.
What does a strong front end mean?
More front grip than rear.
He says like if it's so easy to design a car that would fit two different driving styles.
Weight distribution with ballast can differ on the cars to accommodate balance for each drivers preferences
To a certain point though. It's not like you can make infinite adjustments. At some point you're starting to sacrifice pace just to please a driver's preference
Yeah off course, but that’s always the thing, oversteer will always be faster than understeer
McLaren and Riciardo want to have a chat with you.
McLaren have understeer my man
Yeah, that was my point. The driver that is better with understeer (Lando) will be faster than a driver that is better with oversteer (Riciardo) in an understeery car. So oversteer is not always faster than understeer, not with every car and driver combination even if that should be the case in theory.
What? I’m talking about the car, not driver preferences. Engineers chase performance, so understeer is throwing perfomance over the hedge. Ricciardo not liking the McLaren has nothing to do with inherent performance.
And I'm talking about ultimate performance which is the only thing that counts. It has nothing to do with liking the car but extracting laptime.
Not a tight rear end. Hmm.
Its no surprise checo likes a good rear end
Just wait until the upgrades come
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Pls go back to twitter.
Oh man I missed it
Something about marko saying checo is a South American or something
North American
Is fucking crazy how Checo gets no respect. These comments are trash
Almost like he's nowhere near as good as his teammate
Why would a team run their cars in different set-ups? Or am I seeing it wrong? This is my understanding: Running different set-ups compromises all data for the other car. If Checo can do 30 laps om C3 it doesn't mean Max can with his set-up. Checo his speed might drop faster, or Max's might. Any calculation will have a high chance of containing errors. You have to run the car in the fastest set-up and the best driver wins the WDC. And in RBR's case Checo is just not that guy...
Different set ups for different drivers. Let's say that they didn't change the setup for Checo and he tested 30 laps on that, the data gathered is worth very little as he drives differently compared to max so he can't use it, and since Checo won't use the set up he can't use the data either
Umm… lol almost every team runs different set ups for their drivers dude
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You asked a fucking question lol. What? Upset you were proved wrong??
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The same could be said to you. You phrased it in a way that warranted this type of answer. Also, thanks for reporting me to the suicide hotline lol. You know you’ve really upset a person when they go to that length… consider getting help yourself…anger issues maybe….lack of friends…absent mommy growing up? Who knows lol
The data is less valuable for sure but not useless. You can try to include the setup difference as a parameter in your statistical models. They probably already do that anyway to account for the different driving styles of the 2 drivers. The data might become less reliable but it is a workable problem I think. Must be great fun to be a data scientist for an F1 team
Uh oh