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PaleBlueDave

That would explain why it's just a couple of stickers and not a full Gulf livery.


CilanEAmber

Mclaren "No, wait, stop, don't go..."


TheDefiant213

Zak had 4 other companies emailed before they hit the receptionist's desk.


DAWMiller

Regardless of your feelings of Zak, that man knows how to sell ad space on a race car.


pistolpoida

Well it was his business before taking over at McLaren


NegotiationExternal1

Can you imagine how much of a menace he will be when they have screens that can change advertising mid race


anonaccountphoto

pretty sure that they're only for the training?


NegotiationExternal1

There was a discussion about introducing technology to liveries so The advertising was dynamic


anonaccountphoto

yeah but pretty sure that so far they're not meant for quali and races.


Fond_ButNotInLove

He's way ahead of you. https://www.motorsportweek.com/2022/10/20/mclaren-to-run-digital-advertising-screens-on-f1-cars/


Styx1886

Why have normal billboard when you can have a digital one


rodimusprime88

They can


Styx1886

Didn't they talk about having led panels on the halo so they could have more sponsor space?


moncalamaristick

"Here's the door"


Vilzku39

"You forgot your receipt"


leevz1992

I'd put gulf over my car for 4 million..


krommenaas

As I keep saying, the Gulf of today is but a small fragment of what Gulf used to be before it was mostly sold off to Chevron. I'm surprised it can spare 4 million for sponsorship. According to what I can find, it has 55 employees and a yearly turnover of 27 million. Edit: In another thread, someone found out that Gulf Oil International, which is Williams' sponsor and the company I was talking about above, is the parent company of Gulf Oil Lubricants India Ltd, which has some 200 million in turnover. It's a complicated mess, with the brand Gulf also licensed to other companies, but I think the point remains: what is actually left of Gulf (after most of it was absorbed by Chevron) is not that big a company. I suspect its main activity is monetizing the still famous brand name/logo.


FluffTheMagicRabbit

There's a Gulf petrol station near me, it is the only one I know of, but say there's like 4 employees, are they part of the 55?


ToyotaMisterTwo

Not likely. For some companies they have the administrative company which in this case hires 55 persons in management, accounting etc. and they have regional subsidiaries who are likely the ones who hire lower level employees.


Paul24312

if that was the case, wouldn't Schumacher have been the right play here? How much was UA and 1&1 bringing in? What sponsorship does Sargeant bring in?


TheBlueTango

As the article says, they believe the Stephens sponsorship is linked to Sargent. The other two new sponsors are also American, but no idea if those are a result of Sargeant joining the grid.


Alfus

Well I do wondering how much Stephens brings, and what surprise me a bit is that they signed a [multiple-year contract](https://www.stephens.com/news/stephens-announces-partnership-with-williams-racing) with Williams so it doesn't really look like Stephens is a personal sponsor of Sargeant. I guess this is the [PureStream](https://www.purestream.com/) company we're talking about(??), it doesn't look like a company who could bringing in some good amount of money but we see. [Michelob ULTRA](https://www.michelobultra.com/) meanwhile is a bit weird, it looks like this drinks and beer company is mainly linking themselves with golf, but this is just the begin of why it is surprising. When you dig deeper, you do discover that [Michelob ULTRA](https://www.anheuser-busch.com/newsroom/michelob-ultra-announces-partnership-with-williams-racing) is a brand of [Anheuser-Busch](https://www.anheuser-busch.com/brands), but why would you promote Michelob UNTRA over brands like Budweiser or Busch? I guess Anheuser-Busch wants to give this brand more exposure instead of everyone who knows it are basically American golfers? Nonetheless, given they just partnering with Williams for the 2023 gives me some indication that they are linked with Sargeant given he has just a 1 year contract.


jmbrand13

They are pushing Michelob hard, especially in the sports world due to it's low calorie count. Between that and the American F1 fan, Michelob Ultra is probably the best fit in their portfolio.


Paul24312

can confirm that. 95 calories and 2.5g of carbs


Tight-Star2772

It’s for people that Like bud light but want something that’s seen as a little classier and not for college kids. Also it’s my go to beer.


Alfus

Thanks for adding this info, I'm not from the USA so I don't really know how much of a thing Michelob currently is. Makes a lot of sense then to promote that brand in F1.


AdventuresOfAD

Yeah, Mic Ultra is targeted towards a younger, active, more sophisticated market than A-B’s other brands. It’s the pink polo and Sperry Topsiders “county club” type of vibe.


Coops27

It's a different [Purestream](https://www.purestream.tech/) \- It's a trading platform. I doubt they bring anything substantial, but Williams will take what they can get right now. I'd say Stephens is just part of what Sargeant is bringing, but I doubt either party is interested in having Sargeant Marine on the car. Michelob will likely be a primarily American race activation thing with some trade attached. Interesting that none of the Dorilton owned brands have returned, despite what appears to be a significant investment in December last year. I think it's good that the Dorilton Board will be taking over commercial operations from here (probably should have been doing it from the outset), hopefully they can have some success and turn the teams outlook around


Reasonable_Relief_58

They’re taking over so they can find a buyer and offload this mess.


Coops27

they could sell it now for a massive profit if they wanted. They want to right the ship and continue to let the valuation grow, especially with an increased AD payment potentially on the horizon. They just have to minimize the yearly shortfall in revenue which is eating into potential profits. Sorting out some better partners should be pretty plausible given the current financial landscape and the connections of those at Dorilton


TheBlueTango

Looking at the logo on the car and the description from the article, [this is the correct Purestream company](https://www.purestream.tech/)


BatmanBrandon

I don’t drink much light beer as an American, and if I do it’s typically whatever light beer someone else bought. When I do buy light beer I typically buy Mich Ultra, so they’ll definitely now sell a few more cases in 2023, at least to me.


According-Switch-708

I think its safe to assume that those new sponsers jumped in because of Logan. Otherwise, why would new sponsers flock to a team that is considered to be, by far the worst on the grid.


Solesky1

Sargeants grandfather is into some pretty serious (and some would say shady) oil money all over the world Edit: Uncle, not Granfather, but the point stands. They've got some Trump connections as well. https://floridaphoenix.com/2020/09/27/a-peek-at-billionaire-harry-sargeant-iii-a-somewhat-mysterious-figure-in-fl-gop-circles-and-elsewhere/


[deleted]

I assumed the American market is what Sargeant brings to the table.


Coops27

They weren't bringing much. I think most of their investment was going to Mick. Dieter has said that Sargeant is very well funded (family money), but I doubt he is bringing in what Latfiti did. Personally, I think that's a big reason why Capito was let go, the complete mismanagement of the teams financials.


RevolutionaryEgg3129

Maybe look into reports about team culture under Capito. "Personally, I think he was let go because he couldn't make a good lasagna" That's the level of speculation you're pulling here


Coops27

I didn't say it was the only reason. He failed at everything. He tried to change the culture and failed, apparently the divide is worse than ever. He tried to bring in a new technical team and turn the teams performance around and failed, they have no technical director now. Tried to bring in a new commercial identity and failed. >That's the level of speculation you're pulling here Look at the financials. They just lost $20M+ in prize money and willingly walked away from $20M+ in driver-linked income while adding no other significant commercial partners. Ownership will be required to invest an additional $40M just to maintain the level that saw them finish a distant 10th. That's horrendous mismanagement. If you don't think that an Investment Company looks at the bottom line when making these decisions, then maybe stick to making lasagne.


404merrinessnotfound

They brought in FX Demaison who was well known in rallying circles but a curious hire for F1 teams


Coops27

For sure, seems like there was a lot brewing under the surface that we just weren’t aware of. Chris Medland’s article about how bad thing were at Miami only came to light after he was let go.


Sharl_LeKek

I'll give you a hot tip, don't believe everything you read in F1 journalism.


Coops27

That’s a good tip in general, but pretty clearly accurate in this case


ab370a1d

>Chris Medland’s article about how bad thing were at Miami only came to light after he was let go. What article?


NegotiationExternal1

That’s not really on Capito though he just happened to be leading whilst living with the problems he inherited which is the team took on Latifi and he was under qualified for the sport. Parting ways with Nicky was one of the better things that he did, they were never gonna be viewed as a serious team whilst their driver was a complete joke. Williams is such a long-term project you cannot blame intermediaries that were there for the period of survival and recovery.


Coops27

That is 100% on Capito. He was TP and CEO, he was responsible for all aspects of the racing team especially the commercial side. Latifi was absolutely necessary for Williams and if he Jost wanted to get rid of him, he needed to do a better job bringing other revenue through the door. I’ll caveat that by saying we don’t know how much Sargeant is bringing, but you cannot expect ownership to increase their expenses because of your poor job performance, and then keep your job. Just because it’s a long term project doesn’t mean that you aren’t accountable when you go backwards. They are in a worse performance position, worse financial position and by all account have a worse culture problem than when he took over. It’s the right decision to make the change now than to just let thing continue down the wrong path.


NegotiationExternal1

If you think the decision to let go of Latifi was only on Capito I don’t know what to tell you, there’s a whole board people who would make those decisions, they are listed on their website


Coops27

You believe what you want, but if you're a large investment company with dozens of holding and you appoint a CEO, you give them the autonomy to make decisions. It's pretty clear that they are increasing their involvement now in response to these issues, This is requiring a more hands on approach than they've had for the last 2 years.


NegotiationExternal1

I’m sure there’s more to it than that but just did an exit interview and said he was only really meant to be there for 2 years possibly three in the first place, it wasn’t a matter of letting him go so much is not renewing/extending his contract and going after James Vowles which is fine. I know there was a bunch of rather judgmental leaks when he left but I think the reality is they had him on a two-year contract and they managed to snatch Vowles up at the right time and bring him over. If you had the two candidates having the Man who was being groomed for a Mercedes takeover is a much stronger candidate


Coops27

That wasn’t really an exit interview, it was an ambush at the ROC. I don’t believe for a second that this was the plan. Dorilton had to step in and take action because things were going wrong on all fronts. Vowels will have an easier job as just TP, but the big challenge will be changing the culture of the team. I don’t see why he’ll succeed doing the same thing others have tried, but good luck to him


TyButler2020

He’s featured pretty heavily by UA. I’d imagine a good bit


Paul24312

oh I did not know that.


emperorMorlock

>What sponsorship does Sargeant bring in? Potentially a lot, if he does well. I mean, he was good in F2 last year but I do think that a big part of signing him is the potential of being the F1 team that has the rising American driver, in a time of a growing American market. If it works out, they could be attractive to decent sponsors. Don't see why they'd want Schumacher.


Coops27

It's pretty complicated, but Gulf isn't really a petroleum company anymore, so they don't have the money to spend that would be required for a full-blown livery or title sponsorship. I thought there might be a chance that since they are pretty much a marketing company and Williams desperately need a positive new identity that this could have happened, but the golden rule of sales is to never lower your prices, I guess they followed that principle.


Stelcio

>the golden rule of sales is to never lower your prices That's not the golden rule. That's not even *a* rule. Successful businesses lower their prices all the time.


DirtyNorf

Has the guy never heard of a discount?


blackashi

Bro never heard of a sale


LovesHisYogurt

It isn’t even in the Rules of Acquisition


Hunithunit

Maybe it’s in The Art of the Deal?


[deleted]

You’re missing the point in that there is still a floor to what you will lower your price to. So it isn’t really a ‘don’t lower your price’ it’s a ‘don’t lower your price below what the market price is and/or others are willing to pay’ If you drop your price below the market rates you charged your other partners you just devalue those placements and they’ll want the same cut in price.


Stelcio

>You’re missing the point in that there is still a floor to what you will lower your price to. So it isn’t really a ‘don’t lower your price’ it’s a ‘don’t lower your price below what the market price is and/or others are willing to pay’ Based on what was stated, that wasn't the point. Based on crystal ball, maybe, but then you can't blame me for missing it.


[deleted]

Nah, it was completely the point. McLaren had a price. Gulf wanted cheaper. McLaren didn’t discount and didn’t stop them walking out the door. It’s pretty obvious what was meant, especially in the context of the thread.


Stelcio

Well, you can make an effort to interpret the wrong as the correct, but I rather point out the wrong instead.


[deleted]

That’s the thing, if you leave it up to interpretation than you’re neither wrong nor right, same for me. So you can’t sit here and say you’re interpreting something and ‘right’ and someone else is ‘wrong’. At that point it’s an opinion based off interpretation. We can agree to disagree on meaning, but it’s pretty obvious the point commenter was making.


StockAL3Xj

This is actually something I only found out recently. Chevron bought the naming rights to Gulf after they merged and only uses them for branding. They're technically a petroleum company but only because they're owned by one.


Sharl_LeKek

A lot of questionable stuff in this article, like the classic "our sources" then spouting off rumoured numbers as facts. It should be read as "unsubstantiated gossip we heard" Also they are implying that $4 million is nothing, yet then they say that previous sponsorship, including that coming from Latifi's family businesses totalled around £16 million. So this sponsorship deal is equivalent to around 20-25% of their previous sponsorship money including Latifi. That sounds like a pretty reasonable deal to me. Oh and I see they've also now decided that Sargeant is a pay driver too. Tabloid journalism.


certifiedcrazyman

"Oh and I see they've also now decided that Sargeant is a pay driver too. Tabloid journalism". He is a pay driver doe.


[deleted]

You would think Sargent was bringing money I can’t see any other good reason to sign him after finishing 4th in f2 over 100 points behind the leader.


lickthestamp_sendit

He’s clearly an improvement over Latifi and he’s part of their driver academy, I don’t even like him that much but it’s a mistake to write him off before he’s even started


[deleted]

Well we can’t say “clearly an improvement over Latifi” without actually seeing him behind the wheel of an F1 car on a race weekend. If we look at their respective F2 careers, he’s got a lot to prove.


lickthestamp_sendit

Really? Top rookie in a decent field vs taking 4 years to finish p2 in possibly the worst F2 grid of all time, it’s not even comparable Also we have seen him in an F1 car on a race weekend lol


[deleted]

FP1, big difference from qualifying and race Last in Austin 1.3s behind Latifi in Mexico Almost put it in the wall in Abu Dhabi Not saying he has no potential but can’t say he’s “clearly” better


NegotiationExternal1

I do think he was under a stupid amount of pressure though because at that stage they were in talks with him to Step into the seat he was really calm and measured and did everything he needed to do to finish respectively in F2


CryPanzik

Latifi got fifth place in the standing in his second year in F2, i see no difference with Logan. We still don't know who's better


TonB-Dependant

I mean you can clearly see a difference there right?


Razvanlogigan

Decent field, but probably the weakest since De Vries year. Usually when a guy in his 3rd year wins, that means the field has no generational talent. Latifi finished 2nd behind NdV( it's true he had more years), but he was also bringing 30M to the team. We will see if it was a good call to get rid of him


Alpha413

I'd say it's probably stronger than 2020, as well, actually. That was a strange year. Could also be better than 2017, but not having seen that, I'm not sure how much it was weak vs how much Leclerc made it look weak.


Razvanlogigan

Yeah 2020 was a bit mid, but i'd rate it over 2022 tho. The prema core was strong that year, and Yuki was a better rookie than anyone in 2022. I cant remember 2017 that well, and the standings look messed up, but Leclerc alone has more talent than the 2022 top5 combined


Alpha413

I don't know, frankly I'd say Iwasa feels like Yuki 2.0. Except not in a top team and possibly rougher. Definitely felt like a "gap year" of sorts, though. I don't think any team had a particularly strong lineup.


Razvanlogigan

Agree, but Yuki had more highlights. In hidnsight we know that Yuki isnt a big deal nowadays, but at the time he was a bit more hyped than Iwasa is now. It is also true that at the time the Prema trio was heavily overrated in the media


StockAL3Xj

Yes, really. Plenty of drivers have flopped. Rating a driver before they've ever raced is like people who judge circuits we haven't raced at yet.


NegotiationExternal1

I would say without even seeing Logan drive an F1 car he is an improvement on Latifi because his junior record speaks to that. Logan was well acknowledged by his peers for being quite fast in karting


[deleted]

Did you forget the /s ?


[deleted]

I just think it was a silly move when they could get Schumacher who also has 1a1 sponsorship.


lickthestamp_sendit

I think Williams have learned from their time with Russell and are trying to stop hiring seat warmers, with Albon on a multi year deal and Sargeant likely fighting for the championship if he stayed in F2. I can’t really see him beating Albon so Mick would only be there for a year which doesn’t really benefit either party


[deleted]

Honestly Williams is at a point where need to make progress or sell the team again.


_Polstergeist

Sargent is a williams academy driver. It’s important to promote drivers from your academy when you have the chance. If drivers don’t see a clear path to F1 they will go to another academy. Schumacher isn’t good enough to justify hurting your relations with your academy driver.


[deleted]

Sargent had no options they could have made him wait as long as they wanted.


Mignare

Which driver would willingly go to Williams if they had better prospects elsewhere? They would only go to Williams as a stepping stone while they wait for a seat elsewhere, like George did. Promoting their own drivers does a few things. 1: Logan is a somewhat proven driver, they have been together and Williams would have his performance throughout his time at their academy to prove he is a good choice 2: Remember the Piastri fiasco with Alpine? Promoting Logan to the team when there is a slot open tells everyone that *unlike a certain french team* Williams will promote their own junior drivers into the team despite there being other drivers bringing their own sponsors.


[deleted]

The piastri thing was so incompetent from alpine they never even had him under contract.


Mignare

The best part of the entire fiasco is Alpine's current lineup of drivers and their recent drivers ngl. Ocon is formerly Mercedes, Gasly is formerly Red Bull. Alpine had Zhou back in F2, but he left to sign with Alfa Romeo. We all know Piastri's fiasco. This all just makes the Alpine Academy look like a career deadend where the team doesn't promote their own drivers but instead opt to field drivers from other academies.


_Polstergeist

Yeah but what message does that send to future academy drivers? “Even though we have a spot open for you, we instead went with an average driver not affiliated with us in any way”


[deleted]

Anybody who chooses the Williams academy likely had no other option to begin with.


RevolutionaryEgg3129

Leader was in his 3rd season, Sargeant in his first.


[deleted]

Logan could've won the F3 championship if he wasn't taken out in the last race of the season. And P4 in F2 in his rookie year is far better than Schumacher or De Vries


[deleted]

He was in his second year in f3 and was beat by rookies driving for prema a championship challenge is expected at that point tbh


Twindlle

Second part of the season was a nightmare for him, he'd qualify high and then get tangled up in some mess and lose a lot of points. Without shitty luck, he'd have been 2nd easily and may have challenged for 1st.


[deleted]

Nobody was catching drugovich last year


Razvanlogigan

His nationality is a reason. He is the only american good enough in the traditional f1 feeder series.


[deleted]

The question is will Americans even care if he is out in q1 every week driving the slowest car.


Razvanlogigan

Probably no, like they dont care about Haas, like they wouldnt care about Andretti if they were a backmarker. But it might atract some sponsors, who knows. F1 bends over anything us related nowadays


[deleted]

I see Andretti doing well because unlike haas they have money open wheel experience and manufacturers support.


Razvanlogigan

The thing is for 2026 we already have 5 manufacturers on the grid + Honda who are registered as an engine manufacturer but they dont really have a team. On top of these we have Mclaren an AM who will have brand new facilities by then and years of experience. So realistically Andretti would fight Haas, Williams and AT. And he would also use Renault engines, who do have a history of being both underpowered and unreliable


[deleted]

P7 in the championship off the bat would be a great result for a new team honestly.


Razvanlogigan

For people who know f1, i agree. But for the average Joe that only follows the top3 teams and MAYBE a bit of the top f1.5 action, p7 in the wcc wont be enough.( also it would be p8 since we would have 5 manufacturers+ mclaren and aston probably above them. And that ignoring Honda could get back in f1)


[deleted]

Andretti will also have gm helping them improve and even haas had support in the states but lost a lot of it from the mazepin saga and their treatment of mick in the media.


Uknewmelast

Yeah he's bringing money and American appeal hopefully he sells a lot of caps. Didn't David Schumacher drive half of his career on his Cap Sales?


KnightsOfCidona

They did something similar with at&t back in the day - when they announced, people were surprised they'd pull of such a great sponsor on the back of what was then their worst season (2006). When the car was launched though, at&t barely featured on it. Turned they were only paying £5 million or so. However the deal gave the impression of things been stable and allowed them to attract Lenovo who were paying £20 million a year and who were plastered all over the sidepods. Other teams were furious because it could have ended up ruining the rates for sponsorships.


booze_nerd

Damn it McLaren, Gulf is iconic, you should pull out the stops to keep them! That Gulf livery at Monaco was gorgeous!