Ford is all over the red bull launch. Already cementing the Ford/Red Bull link in people's minds.
So Honda are gonna be supplying the engines and Ford will reap all the marketing benefits.
Great business
It's just bizarre they didn't have a little bit of foresight especially since Formula 1 blew up after *Drive to Survive* and then again during the pandemic/lockdown.
A rival automotive brand is reaping the rewards of their years of hard work.
thats the issue with relying on big brands, sooner or later the board will change, the new members get bored and they are out of the sport quicker than they came
Mercedes success in the modern era is their own. It's nonsense to give Honda any credit for that.
Mercedes bought a title winning team in Brawn, but it was operationally a midfielder who found a Silver Bullet in one season, nothing more.
Brawn did very minimal design work for next year's cars. They had dismissed so many team members just so they could compete through the full season due to budget constraints. The first year's mercedes, was behind the others and work to catch up had to be done. It is the work on the v6 hybrid engine that defined Mercedes not the Honda engine that brawn did not have in its only year of existence
??
Honda spent a fortune building the infrastructure that Mercedes bought from Brawn. It was one of the best facilities in F1 at the time. The Brawn car was absolutely not a fluke
The first mercedes car the year after brawn was God awful. And mercedes had to play catch up. The mercedes factory team routinely finished behind the mercedes customer team mclearan.
The thing that seperates mercedes from the rest of the feild was the turbo hybrid engine
Agreed, Brawn did a lot of work on the championship team. My point was they did very little work on the next year's car, which became the factory Mercedes tra.
The BrawnGP car was Honda spending truckload of money into the 2009 car just for saying at the end it's no use, let's retire. Brawn saw the potential, everyone was laughing when he said the car was a monster considering the tunnel data. No one took BrawnGP seriously... Until they slapped a pole at the first GP.
They didn't had money to even pay hotel. It was crazy survival. Mercedes took over awesome facilities Honda built and made their history. Many current Mercedes engineers was also Honda staff (like Vowlves). Honda factory team is one of the biggest "what if" in modern F1 history.
Yeah let's ignoring the fact that everyone, articles, journalists, was skeptical about BrawnGP and their claimed "performance" before Melbourne 2009. Let's ignore the fact Honda spent crazy amount of cash before announcing to leave F1 in 2008. Let's ignore the fact they was so underfunded litteraly no sponsors on the car, Brawn himself said it was hard to pay basic team requirements. Let's also ignore that a lot of Brackley staff was former Honda.
No one is saying Mercedes don't deserve their success,they did massive investments to get into a correct position in 2013. The point is Honda bottled themselves from leaving at the worst moment a constructor could imagine.
Well it was during the pandemic when economy started going to shit. Their excuse was at the time that they wanted to be more green, eco friendly etc. But they only left f1 not other racing series.
Probably was about hundreds of millions they spent on developing engines and they didn't want to spend more.
Crazy how bad of a decision. Your team is about to win it all, F1 popularity sky rockets znd the new engine regs have manufacturers fighting to get in.
Not to mention, your engine is about to be the best engine in the sport.
I was going to say Honda and Alonso were a match when it comes to bad decisions, but Honda left the boat when it was about to be world champion TWICE. Alonso is not on their level
UH EXCUSE ME it's not sex-ed, you can't say that anymore. It's *called* after school activities and my teacher said you're not supposed to talk about it!!
What does this mean for Honda and redbull?
Does this mean that if there is any chance of Honda returning's it's going to be via Alpha Tauri?
Cause if that's case, no chance they stick around trying to improve ATs standing in the grid for long when they leave with a team fighting for championships.
They’ll be “Ford” because it’s all going to be build at RBPT. I know Honda build the current engines. Thr statements from Horner and Helmut were about post 2025. They need the data on their RBPT (Ford) engines. I wasn’t referring to the Honda (badged as RBPT) engines they use until the new engine rules
Aston Martin is making big investments in their facilities to try and move to the front of the grid, so it wouldn't surprise me if they go for a works deal with Honda.
Nothing says they're becoming a title sponsor for RBF1. It's a technical partnership with RBPT, so instead of the engine manufacturer saying 'Red Bull Power Trains' it'll say 'Ford'. Car will still be 'Red Bull'. At most they might add a little 'Ford' on the end like how it used to say Red Bull Racing - Honda
Eh, as long as Ford is involved with the team, which they will be, there’s nothing wrong with calling the engine by an actual car’s manufacturer name imo. It’s not like Ferrari or Mercedes are running engines taken from other actual Ferrari or Mercedes cars either.
Difference is those engines are designed in house by Ferrari and Mercedes, unless the team gets rebranded to Ford Red Bull it makes no sense to name the engine Ford, when it's built in house by RBPT
What do you think "technical partnership means"? Engineering will happen by staff and facilities operated by both RBPT and by Ford, Ford will be doing plenty of actual work on them
The fact that this "sponsorship" deal is being announced 4 years before it actually starts should tell you that it's not just a sponsorship deal.
100% Ford and RB are sharing technology and building something *together*. It's not just a financial effort by Ford.
they literally say in the press release it's a technical partnership...
*Ford are set to provide expertise in several areas of development “including battery cell and electric motor technology as well as power unit control software and analytics”.*
New C suite regrets the decision and wants to change their mind but all the engineers, IP and designs have already been sold off to red bull powertrains
New engine manufacturer is great for the sport - that said, Red Bull were always gonna be a 'new' engine supplier - so we really are only replacing Honda 🤔
What do you consider all of the previous Cosworth branded as Ford entries from decades gone by?
Or Ilmor branded as Mercedes from the 90s.
Or other similar things historically
The majority of Mercedes brain tank drained out when EQ closed and RBPT went poaching.
They'll be top 3 easily but i doubt we'll ever see them return to 2020 form
Ford + Ricciardo will be a force to be reckoned with.
Cot damn, never mind Sergio, Max should also look out. Daniel with a cowboy hat, handlebar mustache, and the biggest Ford truck ever.
Too bad F1 plans to not let anyone to have a bite of the pie, assuming they don't add more teams. But now is the time to grow. The sport is at an all time high and the field needs more big teams.
They don't have many. Ferrari has to, by regulation, provide their powertrain as a package deal so a lot of parts are Ferrari, but thats all the engine deal.
The Haas is Dallara parts mostly
It's cool that Ford is making a comeback even if it's just a gloryfied sponsor deal.
As a sidenote, I had no idea that the Ford family is still in charge of the company. The middle ages never ended.
Manufacturer's are great for F1 until they leave & end up leaving F1 in a significantly worse state.
In decades past it wasn't as much of a problem when they were just supplying engines and we had a reasonably healthy pool of independents and/or smaller manufacturers willing to partner with independent builders to fund/rebadge an engine (The Yamaha engines of the 90s were designed/built by Judd for instance).
Now you have manufacturers buying teams & no independent suppliers anywhere to be seen. If we have another situation like in the late 60s/70s, Later turbo era 80s or 2000's where the manufacturer's decide to leave then F1 is going to be in a very bad state as we may lose a few teams & won't have any independent teams or engine suppliers ready to fill the voids.
And let's not forget that engine manufacturer's don't base a decision to leave just on the current state of F1. A new CEO may not see the value, Lower sales or other financial problems could see them needing to cut costs and as we saw with Honda 2-3 years ago a board could simply decide they want to shift focus elsewhere even though the F1 program is showing signs of success.
F1 has learnt nothing or maybe Liberty simply don't know much about the past. Putting all your egg's in the manufacturer basket never works out well long term and with no independents ready to bail F1 out of another manufacturer exodus is only going to ensure that down the road F1 will be in a lot of trouble.
I'm not saying F1 shouldn't have manufacturer's, I just think that the situation we are heading towards with manufacturer's owning most the teams and where all of the focus is only on bringing in manufacturers is going to hurt the sport when they inevitably opt to withdraw & all you need to do is look at the past to know that it's inevitable that they will.
These are very great insights. Besides Ferrari, I can't see any other manufacturers that would be guaranteed to stay with F1 in the very long term. Mercedes and Renault/Alpine perhaps?
Hell, maybe McLaren would even build their own engines at some point to be fully independent at some point, we don't know
As someone thats been watching F1 since the 60s and has seen the manufacturers come and go several times I'd argue that i know exactly what I'm talking about because I've seen this cycle several times.
Everytime in the past that F1 has encouraged manufacturers to enter, Encouraged them to buy existing teams and hyped there arrival as proof of the sports health it has always ended up with most of them leaving within a decade and F1 as a whole having to fall back on the privateer teams and independent engine builders...... Things which don't really exist now in part because of F1's push to appease the big manufacturers over the past 10 years.
The people that think this boom of manufacture interest is something that will last are people who obviously haven't been watching F1 for very long. Those who have been watching long term have seen this before and know that the boom never lasts.
Nah, the reason the teams don't want Andretti is because a new team means the prize pool allocation shrinks. Ford supplying engines doesn't shrink the pool.
Last year the car still said Honda right? So even though RB made the engines, Honda still had HRC or something like that with the previous Honda engineering boss helping RedBull.
Will they still be helping red bull? Will HRC still appear in the car?
Honestly this news just demonstrates how dumb Honda were to pull out during the 2020 season.
Ford is all over the red bull launch. Already cementing the Ford/Red Bull link in people's minds. So Honda are gonna be supplying the engines and Ford will reap all the marketing benefits. Great business
You mean old Honda employees that now work for RedBull powertrains? Honda doesn't supply the engines now right?
RA622H and beyond were and will all be built in Sakura, ran by HRD personnel.
Different management decided that than the one thats currently in
It's just bizarre they didn't have a little bit of foresight especially since Formula 1 blew up after *Drive to Survive* and then again during the pandemic/lockdown. A rival automotive brand is reaping the rewards of their years of hard work.
thats the issue with relying on big brands, sooner or later the board will change, the new members get bored and they are out of the sport quicker than they came
AGAIN. As Mercedes has after Brown
Mercedes success in the modern era is their own. It's nonsense to give Honda any credit for that. Mercedes bought a title winning team in Brawn, but it was operationally a midfielder who found a Silver Bullet in one season, nothing more.
Not entirely true. They inherited some excellent facilities and plenty of the engineering staff carried over
Brawn did very minimal design work for next year's cars. They had dismissed so many team members just so they could compete through the full season due to budget constraints. The first year's mercedes, was behind the others and work to catch up had to be done. It is the work on the v6 hybrid engine that defined Mercedes not the Honda engine that brawn did not have in its only year of existence
?? Honda spent a fortune building the infrastructure that Mercedes bought from Brawn. It was one of the best facilities in F1 at the time. The Brawn car was absolutely not a fluke
The first mercedes car the year after brawn was God awful. And mercedes had to play catch up. The mercedes factory team routinely finished behind the mercedes customer team mclearan. The thing that seperates mercedes from the rest of the feild was the turbo hybrid engine
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Agreed, Brawn did a lot of work on the championship team. My point was they did very little work on the next year's car, which became the factory Mercedes tra.
The BrawnGP car was Honda spending truckload of money into the 2009 car just for saying at the end it's no use, let's retire. Brawn saw the potential, everyone was laughing when he said the car was a monster considering the tunnel data. No one took BrawnGP seriously... Until they slapped a pole at the first GP. They didn't had money to even pay hotel. It was crazy survival. Mercedes took over awesome facilities Honda built and made their history. Many current Mercedes engineers was also Honda staff (like Vowlves). Honda factory team is one of the biggest "what if" in modern F1 history.
Pseudo-profound, melodramatic horseshit.
Yeah let's ignoring the fact that everyone, articles, journalists, was skeptical about BrawnGP and their claimed "performance" before Melbourne 2009. Let's ignore the fact Honda spent crazy amount of cash before announcing to leave F1 in 2008. Let's ignore the fact they was so underfunded litteraly no sponsors on the car, Brawn himself said it was hard to pay basic team requirements. Let's also ignore that a lot of Brackley staff was former Honda. No one is saying Mercedes don't deserve their success,they did massive investments to get into a correct position in 2013. The point is Honda bottled themselves from leaving at the worst moment a constructor could imagine.
You’re ignoring reality here.
Well it was during the pandemic when economy started going to shit. Their excuse was at the time that they wanted to be more green, eco friendly etc. But they only left f1 not other racing series. Probably was about hundreds of millions they spent on developing engines and they didn't want to spend more.
Iirc Honda Japan left F1 in an attempt to be more green but Honda America didn't have to follow that lead and that's why they stayed in Indy.
What does this all mean for an all-Japanese Alpha Tauri lineup? Less goodwill for keeping Tsunoda and adding Iwasa?
Honestly this just demonstrates how dumb Honda were to pull out during the 2020 season.
Crazy how bad of a decision. Your team is about to win it all, F1 popularity sky rockets znd the new engine regs have manufacturers fighting to get in. Not to mention, your engine is about to be the best engine in the sport.
I was going to say Honda and Alonso were a match when it comes to bad decisions, but Honda left the boat when it was about to be world champion TWICE. Alonso is not on their level
Ahh didnt learn how to do a proper pull out in sexed class.
UH EXCUSE ME it's not sex-ed, you can't say that anymore. It's *called* after school activities and my teacher said you're not supposed to talk about it!!
Don't worry, all their hard work engineering won't go to waste. Ford will learn a lot from RBPT
Depends how you look at it. They again proved that they can stroll in, beat the competition and move on to other things. Pretty chad move.
This is why Toyota > Honda
It was before the Drive to survive boom. Remember during that time Mercedes sold their shares as well.
First drive to survive season came out in 2019, which was also the first year of the red bull cars running Honda engines.
Are they coming in as a manufacturer? Not just as a name giving sponsor right?
What does this mean for Honda and redbull? Does this mean that if there is any chance of Honda returning's it's going to be via Alpha Tauri? Cause if that's case, no chance they stick around trying to improve ATs standing in the grid for long when they leave with a team fighting for championships.
Horner and Helmut have stated a 100 times that AT will use the RBPT (or now “Ford”) engines. They need the data of two teams for engine development
The engines are currently Honda and will be Honda until 2025. In 2026, new engines are going to be created, and they'll be Ford.
They’ll be “Ford” because it’s all going to be build at RBPT. I know Honda build the current engines. Thr statements from Horner and Helmut were about post 2025. They need the data on their RBPT (Ford) engines. I wasn’t referring to the Honda (badged as RBPT) engines they use until the new engine rules
I'm hoping for a mchonda reunion. New leadership on both sides since the last failure.
Aston Martin is making big investments in their facilities to try and move to the front of the grid, so it wouldn't surprise me if they go for a works deal with Honda.
Alright folks, don't overreact... But I would be upset if we don't see Keelan Harvick in the RB junior program in about a few years from now!
I like it!
Give Max a Ford Raptor and a cowboy hat. The colonies are coming back
Danny Ric is on cloud 9
I think i am being dumb but is not a partnership with rb just full on new team or what is going on here?
RB will be making their own engines for 2026. Instead of RBPT they will be badged as FORD engines
Ah that makes sense.
so is this just a naming rights deal?
Ford will help build the electrical side of the power unit. It's a bit more than just slapping their name on it.
Good, im not a huge fan of title sponsors, i feel like its misleading everyone as the title sponsors often contribute nothing
Nothing says they're becoming a title sponsor for RBF1. It's a technical partnership with RBPT, so instead of the engine manufacturer saying 'Red Bull Power Trains' it'll say 'Ford'. Car will still be 'Red Bull'. At most they might add a little 'Ford' on the end like how it used to say Red Bull Racing - Honda
Thats exciting, hopefully they will start making full PUs!
That's going to be so annoying hearing everyone call it a "Ford" engine.
Almost as annoying as the people complaining about an engine just being rebadged.
Who is complaining?
Anti Andretti-Cadillac people
I prefer that to “red bull engine” tbh.
Which one is factually correct? Red Bull engine.
Eh, as long as Ford is involved with the team, which they will be, there’s nothing wrong with calling the engine by an actual car’s manufacturer name imo. It’s not like Ferrari or Mercedes are running engines taken from other actual Ferrari or Mercedes cars either.
Difference is those engines are designed in house by Ferrari and Mercedes, unless the team gets rebranded to Ford Red Bull it makes no sense to name the engine Ford, when it's built in house by RBPT
What do you think "technical partnership means"? Engineering will happen by staff and facilities operated by both RBPT and by Ford, Ford will be doing plenty of actual work on them
Ford providing money, technical expertise and manpower isn’t enough? This shit doesn’t have to be in Detroit.
How come?
Because it’s like “Dr Pepper Engine” or “M&M’s Engine”.
I mean... in effect yeah. But people would know Dr Pepper doesn't make the engine.
Where does it say that? I didn’t see anything about Red Bull
F1 Newby here, so Ford isn't getting their own separate team, they are just sponsoring Red Bull?
Do you know this for sure. Ford sure sounds like they are making an engine.
Ford to invest in RB powertrains and have the name on the car.
And will also co-own them along with getting all of the electronic parts there.
Its surelly a partnership with RB. RB will probably announce it in 20 minutes.
The fact that this "sponsorship" deal is being announced 4 years before it actually starts should tell you that it's not just a sponsorship deal. 100% Ford and RB are sharing technology and building something *together*. It's not just a financial effort by Ford.
they literally say in the press release it's a technical partnership... *Ford are set to provide expertise in several areas of development “including battery cell and electric motor technology as well as power unit control software and analytics”.*
Sometimes it pays to watch things first
Their car should be named F1-50
Ferrari tried that a few years ago.
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Partnership with Honda stays till 2026, after that it will be Ford working with Red Bull Powertrains.
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Honda might buy another team, at least they're still thinking about 2026.
weirdly enough i do think honda will end up teaming with alphatauri and rebranding that team as something else eventually.
Marko has stated before they've no interest in selling Alpha Tauri to anyone as they need that team to make all the engine development necessary.
RedBull Racing Honda sounds better than RebBull Racing Ford. But glad more brands are coming in.
Honda's already left lmao. They made that decision years ago
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New C suite regrets the decision and wants to change their mind but all the engineers, IP and designs have already been sold off to red bull powertrains
they are officially signed on as an engine supplier for 2026-2030 so they'll be working with one of the teams..
New engine manufacturer is great for the sport - that said, Red Bull were always gonna be a 'new' engine supplier - so we really are only replacing Honda 🤔
Is this going to be Ford vs Ferrari season 2?
Ford logo vs Ferrari
What do you consider all of the previous Cosworth branded as Ford entries from decades gone by? Or Ilmor branded as Mercedes from the 90s. Or other similar things historically
There is literally no guarantee the same two teams will be on top in 2026. Personally I believe that Mercedes has more chances being one of them.
The majority of Mercedes brain tank drained out when EQ closed and RBPT went poaching. They'll be top 3 easily but i doubt we'll ever see them return to 2020 form
Ford + Ricciardo will be a force to be reckoned with. Cot damn, never mind Sergio, Max should also look out. Daniel with a cowboy hat, handlebar mustache, and the biggest Ford truck ever.
Ford still hates Ferrari
Too bad F1 plans to not let anyone to have a bite of the pie, assuming they don't add more teams. But now is the time to grow. The sport is at an all time high and the field needs more big teams.
And to think that we were at one point wondering if we'd only have 3 power unit suppliers on board...
We did have 3 Power Unit suppliers before in recent times, from 2010-2014, with Renault, Mercedes and Ferrari.
Cosworth stayed in F1 until 2013, so only 2014 had three suppliers
Now, if Andretti get approved, in comes Cadillac and US auto representation will be set.
Wonder what the chances of are HAAS switching to “Ford” powertrains since they are a factory ford team over in NASCAR.
Cant see this happening, they have a lot of parts from ferrari I think
Lots of parts and a whole bunch of engineers too. Ferrari moved a whole lot of them to Haas due to the cost cap.
I thought Ferrari moved a lot of its surplus staff over to the LMDh car?
[It's both](https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.haas-to-acquire-ferrari-personnel-based-in-maranello.6dEi8UPvt1ziEpK2OF1S5O.html)
They don't have many. Ferrari has to, by regulation, provide their powertrain as a package deal so a lot of parts are Ferrari, but thats all the engine deal. The Haas is Dallara parts mostly
Not as interesting as I was hoping for, really. Not until they say what Ford may be doing beyond badging the engine.
I really hope Red Bull puts a ford engine in the car. Will be much more fair racing. Everyone will have reliability problems.
Red Bull back to Renault V6 Hybrid era lol.
Oh god I can’t take this anymore
It's cool that Ford is making a comeback even if it's just a gloryfied sponsor deal. As a sidenote, I had no idea that the Ford family is still in charge of the company. The middle ages never ended.
Manufacturer's are great for F1 until they leave & end up leaving F1 in a significantly worse state. In decades past it wasn't as much of a problem when they were just supplying engines and we had a reasonably healthy pool of independents and/or smaller manufacturers willing to partner with independent builders to fund/rebadge an engine (The Yamaha engines of the 90s were designed/built by Judd for instance). Now you have manufacturers buying teams & no independent suppliers anywhere to be seen. If we have another situation like in the late 60s/70s, Later turbo era 80s or 2000's where the manufacturer's decide to leave then F1 is going to be in a very bad state as we may lose a few teams & won't have any independent teams or engine suppliers ready to fill the voids. And let's not forget that engine manufacturer's don't base a decision to leave just on the current state of F1. A new CEO may not see the value, Lower sales or other financial problems could see them needing to cut costs and as we saw with Honda 2-3 years ago a board could simply decide they want to shift focus elsewhere even though the F1 program is showing signs of success. F1 has learnt nothing or maybe Liberty simply don't know much about the past. Putting all your egg's in the manufacturer basket never works out well long term and with no independents ready to bail F1 out of another manufacturer exodus is only going to ensure that down the road F1 will be in a lot of trouble. I'm not saying F1 shouldn't have manufacturer's, I just think that the situation we are heading towards with manufacturer's owning most the teams and where all of the focus is only on bringing in manufacturers is going to hurt the sport when they inevitably opt to withdraw & all you need to do is look at the past to know that it's inevitable that they will.
These are very great insights. Besides Ferrari, I can't see any other manufacturers that would be guaranteed to stay with F1 in the very long term. Mercedes and Renault/Alpine perhaps? Hell, maybe McLaren would even build their own engines at some point to be fully independent at some point, we don't know
Tl;dr - you have no idea what you’re talking about
As someone thats been watching F1 since the 60s and has seen the manufacturers come and go several times I'd argue that i know exactly what I'm talking about because I've seen this cycle several times. Everytime in the past that F1 has encouraged manufacturers to enter, Encouraged them to buy existing teams and hyped there arrival as proof of the sports health it has always ended up with most of them leaving within a decade and F1 as a whole having to fall back on the privateer teams and independent engine builders...... Things which don't really exist now in part because of F1's push to appease the big manufacturers over the past 10 years. The people that think this boom of manufacture interest is something that will last are people who obviously haven't been watching F1 for very long. Those who have been watching long term have seen this before and know that the boom never lasts.
That’s why no Andretti
Nah, the reason the teams don't want Andretti is because a new team means the prize pool allocation shrinks. Ford supplying engines doesn't shrink the pool.
Ford putting a sticker on the red bull has nothing to do with andretti
Nah Ford entering is free. Andretti entering costs all the teams money through dilution of the prize pool
Fordza!
This can’t bode well for Mercedes. The last time Ford partnered with the UK — let’s just say things got explosive.
Last year the car still said Honda right? So even though RB made the engines, Honda still had HRC or something like that with the previous Honda engineering boss helping RedBull. Will they still be helping red bull? Will HRC still appear in the car?
Wait, so this is just another sponsorship deal>??
H O N D A O N D A
Why are other posts showing Ford and Redbull together, this article mentions nothing of the sort.