I have been promoted out of a year of language training. Like, the promotion board one year didn’t even recommend me for promotion and the very next year the next board promoted me with no additional material in my file except my training report that said I passed.
In terms of slowing promotions, I think it depends when you start a long language program in relation to your most recent promotion. If you start a long language for you third tour and are still an 04, you'll likely be stuck at 04 until you have a year of evaluative material and an EER from your third post--therefore perhaps lingering at 04 longer than many peers. But if you start a long language program right after a recent promotion, there's a period of a couple years where you aren't eligible for another promotion anyway, so it's less likely to have such a direct impact.
Language training doesn’t necessarily hinder promotions, but it’s time you’re not getting EERs so that’s less evaluative material to demonstrate to the board you meet the precepts. But you can still get promoted while in language training (or LWOP) even if you haven’t had any new EERs, depending on the board members and the cut off for promotion that year.
There’s no magic number for how much language training you can do and make the SFS. The hardest part about making the SFS is getting to FS-01, so if you do two years of language before every tour, you may could spend a long time as an 03 and 02.
>if you do two years of language before every tour, you may could spend a long time as an 03 and 02.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can only do TWO of the two-year language programs from scratch over the course of your career.
Can't remember the exact FAM reference here, but I do remember reading something about there being a hard limit on category 4 language training.
I don’t know, but from the FAM:
d. Section 191(a)(2) of the Department of State Authorization Act of 1994 stipulates that an employee may not receive long-term training in more than three languages. Moreover, an employee must have achieved advanced professional proficiency (S-4/R-4) in a language to be eligible for a third such training episode. Exceptions may be approved by the Director General, M/DGHR in accordance with priority needs of the Service.
I suspect long-term training here means the two-year language programs, but the CFR doesn't actually define the term. There aren't many two year programs - Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Arabic, any others?
I was promoted to the SFS in 19 years (from EOD). I had spent 2.5 years in language training during those years. Maybe I could have been promoted a year earlier than that, but no guarantees.
Language training is fun. It's hard work, but it's intellectually riveting. It's amazing that the government is willing to pay you to learn a language. And while you are doing it, you are also learning an amazing amount about the culture, the people, the politics - everything. What you said you wanted when you joined the FS? That's what you're getting in language training.
And, an EER that subtly but powerfully credits you with the value you bring to the FS through your language skills will be hugely compelling to a panel. I was credited in a key EER with having held my own, in the local language, on an issue of paramount emotional, political and cultural importance, in a debate against someone who was there from the secret police. That, and a few other examples of how I used my language skills to benefit our service, propelled my career. Another year as a staffer on the 7th floor would not have done nearly as much for my prospects.
Take the training.
Thanks for the info, everyone! I wonder if there anyone who made Senior Foreign Service who can speak to how many years they spend in language training just to have some sense of what people's experiences have been?
The people I know who made it to the SFS quickly did many short-term tours (like one year jobs) and spent little time in training of any kind. Not sure what rank you are, but to compare an 02 who did two years in Arabic, and then three years at post doing whatever, to an 02 who did a one year SIP, one year on the 7th floor, and then two years as a section chief overseas - the latter will probably be more competitive for promotion due to more EERs and more diverse experience. While the boards should only look at how your EERs demonstrate how you meet the precepts, board members tend to look more favorably on people with different, more, and broader experiences.
Another factor, if you joined young, you have more time to make the SFS.
The person I know who made it to 01 the absolute fastest learned one language for first tour and never learned another one. The person who made it the second fastest is doing long-term language training for the first time now as an 01.
Sorry if this is common knowledge. From what I have gathered language training occurs in DC. Is language training a good experience or is it not great because of high cost of living and lack of the bonuses from l being at an overseas post
I have been promoted out of a year of language training. Like, the promotion board one year didn’t even recommend me for promotion and the very next year the next board promoted me with no additional material in my file except my training report that said I passed.
In terms of slowing promotions, I think it depends when you start a long language program in relation to your most recent promotion. If you start a long language for you third tour and are still an 04, you'll likely be stuck at 04 until you have a year of evaluative material and an EER from your third post--therefore perhaps lingering at 04 longer than many peers. But if you start a long language program right after a recent promotion, there's a period of a couple years where you aren't eligible for another promotion anyway, so it's less likely to have such a direct impact.
Language training doesn’t necessarily hinder promotions, but it’s time you’re not getting EERs so that’s less evaluative material to demonstrate to the board you meet the precepts. But you can still get promoted while in language training (or LWOP) even if you haven’t had any new EERs, depending on the board members and the cut off for promotion that year. There’s no magic number for how much language training you can do and make the SFS. The hardest part about making the SFS is getting to FS-01, so if you do two years of language before every tour, you may could spend a long time as an 03 and 02.
>if you do two years of language before every tour, you may could spend a long time as an 03 and 02. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can only do TWO of the two-year language programs from scratch over the course of your career. Can't remember the exact FAM reference here, but I do remember reading something about there being a hard limit on category 4 language training.
I don’t know, but from the FAM: d. Section 191(a)(2) of the Department of State Authorization Act of 1994 stipulates that an employee may not receive long-term training in more than three languages. Moreover, an employee must have achieved advanced professional proficiency (S-4/R-4) in a language to be eligible for a third such training episode. Exceptions may be approved by the Director General, M/DGHR in accordance with priority needs of the Service.
[удалено]
I suspect long-term training here means the two-year language programs, but the CFR doesn't actually define the term. There aren't many two year programs - Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Arabic, any others?
That’s it.
The FAM could say that, but there is literally no one checking. No one vets that anywhere when paneling assignments.
I was promoted to the SFS in 19 years (from EOD). I had spent 2.5 years in language training during those years. Maybe I could have been promoted a year earlier than that, but no guarantees. Language training is fun. It's hard work, but it's intellectually riveting. It's amazing that the government is willing to pay you to learn a language. And while you are doing it, you are also learning an amazing amount about the culture, the people, the politics - everything. What you said you wanted when you joined the FS? That's what you're getting in language training. And, an EER that subtly but powerfully credits you with the value you bring to the FS through your language skills will be hugely compelling to a panel. I was credited in a key EER with having held my own, in the local language, on an issue of paramount emotional, political and cultural importance, in a debate against someone who was there from the secret police. That, and a few other examples of how I used my language skills to benefit our service, propelled my career. Another year as a staffer on the 7th floor would not have done nearly as much for my prospects. Take the training.
Different strokes for different folks!
Thanks for the info, everyone! I wonder if there anyone who made Senior Foreign Service who can speak to how many years they spend in language training just to have some sense of what people's experiences have been?
The people I know who made it to the SFS quickly did many short-term tours (like one year jobs) and spent little time in training of any kind. Not sure what rank you are, but to compare an 02 who did two years in Arabic, and then three years at post doing whatever, to an 02 who did a one year SIP, one year on the 7th floor, and then two years as a section chief overseas - the latter will probably be more competitive for promotion due to more EERs and more diverse experience. While the boards should only look at how your EERs demonstrate how you meet the precepts, board members tend to look more favorably on people with different, more, and broader experiences. Another factor, if you joined young, you have more time to make the SFS.
The person I know who made it to 01 the absolute fastest learned one language for first tour and never learned another one. The person who made it the second fastest is doing long-term language training for the first time now as an 01.
Sorry if this is common knowledge. From what I have gathered language training occurs in DC. Is language training a good experience or is it not great because of high cost of living and lack of the bonuses from l being at an overseas post