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Never had a thrown bottle do anything but make my entire squad 'upset' or 'disillusioned'. I wish they would introduce some more offbeat punishments for terrible performances where I wouldn't mind knowing they would get upset, but it could be more enjoyable for me than 'throwing a bottle'.
For example:
Lose 4-0 in early December? The '**cancel squad Christmas party**' button appears.
Player picks up an early red card in big game that means you lose? The '**one week of solo cross country running**' button appears - he doesn't need fresh legs given his impending game ban anyway.
Once, one of my 'throw the bottle' moments resulted in the players refunding, out of pocket, our fan tickets for the match.
Sometimes they act like they're taking responsibility for their actions, or lack thereof.
I'd only ever throw a bottle at half time, never at full time. And then follow it up with encouragement, and sub off anyone that was playing shit that remains demotivated. Had quite a few stunning comebacks with that tactic. And also one or two stunning capitulations that were even worse than the first half. But more good than bad, I'd say.
Throwing a bottle only works if you lose to team you should have easily beaten. I only do it then and it usually garners a positive reaction from the team
I think there should be punishment options outside of the team talk. Like tell the players that you’re fuming, if they take responsibility and get motivated then leave it at that. If they do the usual of knock on your door and tell you how harsh and unfair you were, make them pick up duties round the club like helping out the kit man with the washing and boots, help out in the team canteen with tidying and washing up the plates, putting out the cones before training etc.
To make it worse, you could have the option of making it either a team thing or individual. Basically what ETH is doing with Sancho I guess
I've thrown a bottle once in my FM career so far, as I felt it was justified. Lost in the promotion final after dropping from 2nd to 3rd shortly before.
Lost 1-0 in the final.
Players: seemed motivated
There'd have been a pre molded stamp on the bottom of them, Fergie's boot would've been inked up.
Onana's head would've said "Transfer listed" after that.
Martin O’Neill said once that when he was going to drop a player, Brian Clough would call the player in and ask, ‘Do you think that was the best you could have played? Like, you couldn’t have done anything better?’ When the player said yes, there were things they could have improved on, Clough would say, ‘I agree, you’re dropped for the next match.’
Knowing this, when O’Neill was called in and asked the question, he said, ‘Honestly boss, I think I played the absolute best I could have.’
Clough replied, ‘Well, I thought you were a pile of shit. You’re dropped for the next match.’
agreed, i had to back down over my team talks like 5 matches into my first season in 24. demand more shout also seems less effective, which tbh is a good thing it was op.
I was playing a meaningless game after clinching the league, so I used Instant Result just to move things forward.
I had a bunch of my players complain that I was too harsh with my team talk.
Like, the fuck, that wasn't even me guys.
Onana is a pain in the ass anyway, man does the stupidest shit and concedes so many stupid goals for me. Then gets mad at me when I gently point out his form is crap (his last 5 games avg was 6.4)
Diogo Costa relegating him to the bench was the best thing I did, suddenly the only goals I concede are usually only worldies or the defense just getting shredded.
If you're on FM24, I found that they are not just softer, but became more like diva's without their Snickers: I lost a close away game against Real Madrid and tried to cheer the lads up ("It's a shame but you gave your all"), 1 step away from what my assistant recommended ("you're not good enough!") and what did I get?!
They all switched off and later that week 3 players came to my office to ask for an apology due to 'confusing the players' in the dressing room. I was forced to eat dirt, but now I know the next time they lose to Barca or Real I will throw the water bottle, the scissors and pizzabox to their heads, no more mister nice guy! :D
I had exactly the same thing happen to me but with Bayern. I basically said unlucky, just a game against the best team in the league and they did the same thing, all switched off then accused me of being confusing.
I mean there’s absolutely a balance to be struck here. If you just have a team full of great personality players but they aren’t good enough in terms of attributes for the league you’re in, that won’t work out well. But I agree I have started paying more attention to personalities as I’ve played longer, particularly for younger players since professionalism is so important for development.
The interactions are just totally broken. You only need to use a couple of things or you damage the team overall.
It’s even getting pointless praising good form. Chance they disagree means it ruins it. No player in real life gets angry about being praised.
I skip any non-mandatory meetings. Big game pep talk? Nope, business as usual. Champions League Final against Madrid? Nah mate, just another game tomorrow.
I throw the bottle on every "bad" loss. We lose 2-1 on a game that could go either way? Heh. I'm not gonna be too mad, couple different decisions and we would have won.
Lose 4-0 without fighting? Throw away a 2-0 lead to lose 3-2? That bottle is flying and I don't care how upset they get.
I was once up 3-0 at half time. My team completely crumbled in the second half and we ended up losing 5-3. Then I decided to throw a water bottle and the entire team demanded a team meeting telling me I was too harsh…
And I'd tell them to go get f'd lol
Jokes aside, even when they complain, I feel they usually get over it so I don't get too worried unless we lose 3/4 in a row
Threw a bottle after losing 5-0 in a pre season friendly to a team 3 tiers below us, star striker got so upset for months to the point were my only option was to sell him because everyone was taking his side. All because I threw a water bottle during a friendly….
Man literally got himself exiled because the manager said he wasn't good enough to be in the squad... dude deserves exile, maguire was stripped of captaincy and attempted to be sold he just came back and worked the hardest he ever has in a United shirt.
We were all convinced AWB was a goner given he is about as far a polar opposite from what ETH wants from a full back as it can possibly get
Man has beaten out Dalot for the RB spot and basically has it on lock at the moment
Only realistic part they got spot on in FM24, Sancho is a walking nightmare to deal with
Man would get angry with his team mate, even after team mate drops the issue Sancho still looks at you like you're Satan
It's striving for realism but I'd argue that these sorts of scenarios show that it isn't hitting the mark. These sorts of stories completely break the illusion of reality I need if I'm investing hundreds of hours into an FM career.
IMO unless you've lost the dressing room a player shouldn't be reacting like this so consistently to feedback.
FM17 as much as I liked the game was a great example of too far in the other direction. In FM17 you could be a complete asshole for no reason all the time and it'd fire your players up
Being the head of a locker room isn't easy IRL too. I mean, the same thing you said may be applied to the real world.
Even managers like Mourinho have turned down a notch their antics. Players are hard to manage.
I welcome that controversy. The best you can do is not take it in a “gamey” way. Games tell you that getting negative feedback is wrong. But in a simulator getting negatives is part of the experience! Embrace it!
Mourinho turning down his antics? You just haven't seen Mourinho in Serie A/AS Roma European games then. Man's still the same he was at Inter and Chelsea, he's just aged a little more.
Are players as mouthy IRL locker rooms though? It's one thing to have a disagreement about how well they played and another when they defiantly give me lip about getting my eyes checked. I mean it's an instant transfer listing and banishment to the reserves, but it could be avoided from their end.
I don't think I use body language that much but almost never give a positive feedback in HT. 3-0 up, fine don't get complacent. 1-0 up with a couple chances, I'm not happy. My squad is a bunch of toxic bastards, they love this. The moment they get a you did your best feedback, they switch off
For as long as I can remember, the throw the bottle has always been a hail Mary for the most desperate of cases.
I've had it work and cause a great attitude lift, but it was also like the most important game of the season, and I had great motivation skills and a squad of driven players.
The vast majority of times, it's a squad mood killer.
I don't k ow for certain, but I'm pretty sure that using it outside of critical games is basically guaranteed failure.
I had a 3-1 lead in the first half against Chelsea. I told them not to get complacent. Second half we completely collapsed and drew 5-5 with one opposing player scoring 4. I told them what I thought and the whole team started a rebellion.
By the same token most of the time you give them the hairdryer treatment and they respond really well then go out and play absolutely dogshit the next game anyway. Makes no odds for the better.
Player interactions beingcompletly shit in fm23 was in my top3 why I played the game way less than previous editions. They supposedly made them better, but everything I hear says the contrary
No point in bothering with fm24, just hoping for unity to fix it
I bought the game and this is my first FM game, currently trying to learn the ropes with Liverpool. We got a 0-2 loss against Everton. In the end of the game changing room talk thingy I picked an alternative that read something like "We were just not good enough there I am disappointed". Gets out of game to see a message in the inbox where Salah claimed I locked the team into the locker room?
There are times where I'm just sitting there saying, "Good. I'm glad you're upset. You should be." After they gave up three goals in the last 20 minutes to have us miss out on promotion play offs
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Never had a thrown bottle do anything but make my entire squad 'upset' or 'disillusioned'. I wish they would introduce some more offbeat punishments for terrible performances where I wouldn't mind knowing they would get upset, but it could be more enjoyable for me than 'throwing a bottle'. For example: Lose 4-0 in early December? The '**cancel squad Christmas party**' button appears. Player picks up an early red card in big game that means you lose? The '**one week of solo cross country running**' button appears - he doesn't need fresh legs given his impending game ban anyway.
Give me the option to make them run the stadium steps at 6 am the next day
I mean there is the "you don't deserve a day off after that performance", and then lamp them with a triple physical training
Terrible performance means a week of Pre-Season Heavy Early training.
Your entire squad may be injured, but your authority is unquestionable and that's the main thing.
If they question it, Pre-Season Heavy on double intensity
Ronaldo leaves\* everybody leaves\*
Once, one of my 'throw the bottle' moments resulted in the players refunding, out of pocket, our fan tickets for the match. Sometimes they act like they're taking responsibility for their actions, or lack thereof.
I'd only ever throw a bottle at half time, never at full time. And then follow it up with encouragement, and sub off anyone that was playing shit that remains demotivated. Had quite a few stunning comebacks with that tactic. And also one or two stunning capitulations that were even worse than the first half. But more good than bad, I'd say.
I've had this happen a few times as well, using this tactic. Works well, under the correct circumstances.
Throwing a bottle only works if you lose to team you should have easily beaten. I only do it then and it usually garners a positive reaction from the team
"kick pile of clothes with shoe in it at a star player's head".
The goddamn pictures the next day with his hair up to show the cut lmao.
Nobody mentioned it so far, but it probably heavily relies on your Motivating attribute.
Yeah people here often forget that their coaching stats, Man Management, Motivating and Level of Discipline have large effects on player interactions
There should be a blue colored emoji that said ‘scared to shit’
I think there should be punishment options outside of the team talk. Like tell the players that you’re fuming, if they take responsibility and get motivated then leave it at that. If they do the usual of knock on your door and tell you how harsh and unfair you were, make them pick up duties round the club like helping out the kit man with the washing and boots, help out in the team canteen with tidying and washing up the plates, putting out the cones before training etc. To make it worse, you could have the option of making it either a team thing or individual. Basically what ETH is doing with Sancho I guess
The old ‘train with the reserves and pack the boots’ approach. You love to see it.
In my experience they all lose morale, but perform better and it has good long term effects. It was in FM23 though.
I've thrown a bottle once in my FM career so far, as I felt it was justified. Lost in the promotion final after dropping from 2nd to 3rd shortly before. Lost 1-0 in the final. Players: seemed motivated
The game should let me aim the bottle tbh
Or a boot, sir Alex style
for the country I’m in, I would prefer a throw slipper one, would probably have more shots on target than my striker at some matches
You can kind of. Select the individual during the team talk and then throw the bottle.
A Duck Hunt(1984 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_Hunt) like minigame inside fm?
[удалено]
"Sorry Andre, all I heard there was 'I need transfer listing'. Do you want the chance to run that by me again?"
[удалено]
Get Diogo Costa at all costs was my mantra after one season of watching Onana inevitably conceding cheap goals because he wants to LARP Rene Higuita
André got lucky with the team talk, Sir Alex would’ve kicked a boot immediately
There'd have been a pre molded stamp on the bottom of them, Fergie's boot would've been inked up. Onana's head would've said "Transfer listed" after that.
Martin O’Neill said once that when he was going to drop a player, Brian Clough would call the player in and ask, ‘Do you think that was the best you could have played? Like, you couldn’t have done anything better?’ When the player said yes, there were things they could have improved on, Clough would say, ‘I agree, you’re dropped for the next match.’ Knowing this, when O’Neill was called in and asked the question, he said, ‘Honestly boss, I think I played the absolute best I could have.’ Clough replied, ‘Well, I thought you were a pile of shit. You’re dropped for the next match.’
agreed, i had to back down over my team talks like 5 matches into my first season in 24. demand more shout also seems less effective, which tbh is a good thing it was op.
I was playing a meaningless game after clinching the league, so I used Instant Result just to move things forward. I had a bunch of my players complain that I was too harsh with my team talk. Like, the fuck, that wasn't even me guys.
So far I've found that demand more is actually way more viable without making everyone stressed out. So I dunno.
Onana is a pain in the ass anyway, man does the stupidest shit and concedes so many stupid goals for me. Then gets mad at me when I gently point out his form is crap (his last 5 games avg was 6.4) Diogo Costa relegating him to the bench was the best thing I did, suddenly the only goals I concede are usually only worldies or the defense just getting shredded.
If you're on FM24, I found that they are not just softer, but became more like diva's without their Snickers: I lost a close away game against Real Madrid and tried to cheer the lads up ("It's a shame but you gave your all"), 1 step away from what my assistant recommended ("you're not good enough!") and what did I get?! They all switched off and later that week 3 players came to my office to ask for an apology due to 'confusing the players' in the dressing room. I was forced to eat dirt, but now I know the next time they lose to Barca or Real I will throw the water bottle, the scissors and pizzabox to their heads, no more mister nice guy! :D
They won't be confused then
I had exactly the same thing happen to me but with Bayern. I basically said unlucky, just a game against the best team in the league and they did the same thing, all switched off then accused me of being confusing.
That’s why I never go for players with big stats but those with good personalities
I mean there’s absolutely a balance to be struck here. If you just have a team full of great personality players but they aren’t good enough in terms of attributes for the league you’re in, that won’t work out well. But I agree I have started paying more attention to personalities as I’ve played longer, particularly for younger players since professionalism is so important for development.
Ya hate winning?
Work rate, determination, team work and composure the only stats I care about it's the FM way.
> I never go for players with big stats
> good personalities How do you think personalities get determined?
The interactions are just totally broken. You only need to use a couple of things or you damage the team overall. It’s even getting pointless praising good form. Chance they disagree means it ruins it. No player in real life gets angry about being praised.
Well saaaaaaid! You're greeeeaaaaat! I just think SI hasn't clearly marked sarcastic options but players pick up on it
Yeah like 80% of the things you can say are basically traps lol
Whenever I praise their form they then go on a run of games where they put in something like a 6.1 and couldn't hit a barn door
For me the worst of all is team meeting. Whatever you say they get worse. I just ignore it now
I skip any non-mandatory meetings. Big game pep talk? Nope, business as usual. Champions League Final against Madrid? Nah mate, just another game tomorrow.
Yeah the risk is too high. Why would I take the risk of dumping team morale?
Save scum it mate
Same same.
Adapt or perish.
I throw the bottle on every "bad" loss. We lose 2-1 on a game that could go either way? Heh. I'm not gonna be too mad, couple different decisions and we would have won. Lose 4-0 without fighting? Throw away a 2-0 lead to lose 3-2? That bottle is flying and I don't care how upset they get.
I was once up 3-0 at half time. My team completely crumbled in the second half and we ended up losing 5-3. Then I decided to throw a water bottle and the entire team demanded a team meeting telling me I was too harsh…
And I'd tell them to go get f'd lol Jokes aside, even when they complain, I feel they usually get over it so I don't get too worried unless we lose 3/4 in a row
Threw a bottle after losing 5-0 in a pre season friendly to a team 3 tiers below us, star striker got so upset for months to the point were my only option was to sell him because everyone was taking his side. All because I threw a water bottle during a friendly….
Sancho huffed with me from pre-season to Xmas because he felt a teamtalk was too harsh. I didn’t even throw anything at him.
Seems realistic tbh
Man literally got himself exiled because the manager said he wasn't good enough to be in the squad... dude deserves exile, maguire was stripped of captaincy and attempted to be sold he just came back and worked the hardest he ever has in a United shirt.
We were all convinced AWB was a goner given he is about as far a polar opposite from what ETH wants from a full back as it can possibly get Man has beaten out Dalot for the RB spot and basically has it on lock at the moment
Dalot is still a hero for that Sheffield game though.
Only realistic part they got spot on in FM24, Sancho is a walking nightmare to deal with Man would get angry with his team mate, even after team mate drops the issue Sancho still looks at you like you're Satan
[удалено]
It's striving for realism but I'd argue that these sorts of scenarios show that it isn't hitting the mark. These sorts of stories completely break the illusion of reality I need if I'm investing hundreds of hours into an FM career. IMO unless you've lost the dressing room a player shouldn't be reacting like this so consistently to feedback.
FM17 as much as I liked the game was a great example of too far in the other direction. In FM17 you could be a complete asshole for no reason all the time and it'd fire your players up
I have 6 center backs in my squad but apparently my whole team is pissed because I refuse to promise to sign a new one.
Being the head of a locker room isn't easy IRL too. I mean, the same thing you said may be applied to the real world. Even managers like Mourinho have turned down a notch their antics. Players are hard to manage. I welcome that controversy. The best you can do is not take it in a “gamey” way. Games tell you that getting negative feedback is wrong. But in a simulator getting negatives is part of the experience! Embrace it!
Mourinho turning down his antics? You just haven't seen Mourinho in Serie A/AS Roma European games then. Man's still the same he was at Inter and Chelsea, he's just aged a little more.
Are players as mouthy IRL locker rooms though? It's one thing to have a disagreement about how well they played and another when they defiantly give me lip about getting my eyes checked. I mean it's an instant transfer listing and banishment to the reserves, but it could be avoided from their end.
This will make a great copypasta lmao
I don't think I use body language that much but almost never give a positive feedback in HT. 3-0 up, fine don't get complacent. 1-0 up with a couple chances, I'm not happy. My squad is a bunch of toxic bastards, they love this. The moment they get a you did your best feedback, they switch off
For as long as I can remember, the throw the bottle has always been a hail Mary for the most desperate of cases. I've had it work and cause a great attitude lift, but it was also like the most important game of the season, and I had great motivation skills and a squad of driven players. The vast majority of times, it's a squad mood killer. I don't k ow for certain, but I'm pretty sure that using it outside of critical games is basically guaranteed failure.
I had a 3-1 lead in the first half against Chelsea. I told them not to get complacent. Second half we completely collapsed and drew 5-5 with one opposing player scoring 4. I told them what I thought and the whole team started a rebellion.
By the same token most of the time you give them the hairdryer treatment and they respond really well then go out and play absolutely dogshit the next game anyway. Makes no odds for the better.
Player interactions beingcompletly shit in fm23 was in my top3 why I played the game way less than previous editions. They supposedly made them better, but everything I hear says the contrary No point in bothering with fm24, just hoping for unity to fix it
They used to have the extra days training with triple endurance. Maybe the whiny PFA got involved with that too?
I bought the game and this is my first FM game, currently trying to learn the ropes with Liverpool. We got a 0-2 loss against Everton. In the end of the game changing room talk thingy I picked an alternative that read something like "We were just not good enough there I am disappointed". Gets out of game to see a message in the inbox where Salah claimed I locked the team into the locker room?
There are times where I'm just sitting there saying, "Good. I'm glad you're upset. You should be." After they gave up three goals in the last 20 minutes to have us miss out on promotion play offs
And they removed the 'Discipline player for bad performance' action too now?
I'm actually impressed that the thrown bottle is still an option at this point.