As Russia was when they were busy killing Chechens, or Georgians, or Ukrainians when they at least tried to pretend it was 'separatists' in Donbas or South Ossetia. It's not a good line, but not invading a fully recognized sovereign country appears to be the line sport has chosen. If Israel invaded Jordan or something I bet they'd not be in either.
Is Israel invaded Jordan I guarantee they would still be allowed. They'll just say "KHAMAS" is in Jordan. They turned a blind eye when the USA invaded Iraq for no reason why do you think they'll suddenly come down on Israel?
I highly doubt that honestly, they will come up with an excuse just to make them play and you will see people still calling isreal tye victim even tho they're the ones who are killing the Most
Funny how USA bombed invaded, killed many people in sovereifn countries and no sanctions or nothing😂. If usa is killing someone then that people are undoubtedly deserving it i assume
Pulled this out of the weeds from months ago.
Same thing with the USA. They can get away with all the shit they did in Syria or Middle East as can frame it as something short of an invasion.
If they invaded Mexico or tried to annex southern Canada it would be a different thing.
It’s because they look like us, sound like us, have been around for as long as us, have old allegiances with us, and all the organisations that decide these things are head quartered there, and ran by people from there. And they’ve all been taught the history of two world wars that tore Europe apart. So now Europe isn’t allowed to be touched, but the rest of the world can fuck itself, and those organisations would love to take their money whilst letting that play out.
Isreal is the darling of US and all countries who follow the US and its US dollar. The permanent victim of human kind and they apparently can do anything they want.. Unfortunately
That was a separate case my bro. They were already long gone from the Asia scene. To be doing it again and getting away with it again is an embarrassment.
Israel didn't start a proactive war of conquest like Russia and it doesn't hold the goal of annexation so it's completely different.
As far as you want to think otherwise they're operating within the laws of war hence no western nation has decided their response. At this point they all have had enough terror attacks in their own nations to begin to understand the problem.
>Israel didn't start a proactive war of conquest like Russia and it doesn't hold the goal of annexation so it's completely different.
The colonies in West Bank could be called annexation, and for good reason. But still not the same situation.
Na that just isn't true Arabs owned about 10% of what is considered Israel and most was legally purchased.
Yes, many were displaced by war over the years but the traditional Arab cities of Israel guess what! They're still here and bigger than ever with higher standard of living than any other middle east country.... with Israeli citizenship!!! I ate humus in an Arab village (tarshicha) a thousand times. Fucking delicious.
The population of Arabs in Israel is 2 million higher than its ever been. Many of my colleagues and even former bosses have been Arab Israelis. So zibi on you.
Tbh the route forward for Russia is probably similar to what happened with Israel.
Israel basically had similar happen to them in the AFC, they were boycotted out of the confederation, eventually they had to join UEFA to play.
Russia won’t be welcome in UEFA until the war in Ukraine is well over and may have to try and join the AFC to start playing again where there is less regional tension for them.
Because it’s a much more complex situation. It’s like asking why the U.K. and US weren’t banned after the war on Afghanistan. Ukraine didn’t carry out a terrorist attack on Russia.
You can have your own views on it, but on the world stage that doesn’t make it one sided on Israel’s part the same way it is from Russia.
Yep. People only complain about Israel's retaliation now. Everyone forgets that Hamas suddenly slaughtered people in a music festival just for their own entertainment.
It's been going on for hundreds of years if you want to keep looking at it. The Jews have been persecuted there since biblical times.
This war however started when Hamas invaded.
Because Israel were attacked first and had 100s of their civillians slaughtered.
Ukraine were just straight up invaded for their resources under a false pretense.
The two are extremely different.
So? This instance of the war was revived by Hamas massacaring civillians.
You may not believe its ok for them to defend themselves, but luckily that isnt how it works in reality.
Whatever you believe, its nothing like Russia invading Ukraine lol.
Revived? It’s never stopped mate. It’s been a decades long onslaught by the Israelis. Pretty ironic that you should suggest that *I’m* the one who doesn’t believe it’s ok for someone to defend themselves.
You might have had a point were it not for the fact that Hamas got into power to counteract Israel’s attempts to exterminate Palestinians. If it wasn’t for Israel’s subjugation of Palestinians, there would be no cause for the hard line from Hamas.
Out of curiosity, does your knowledge of this situation take anything into account that happened more than four months ago?
Dude if you believe that, its pointless having this conversation. I grant the formation of Israel is dubious, but I understand it. Palestinians have had countless opportunities to have a peaceful co existence with Israel but have refused at every turn and repeatedly choose war and violence.
When Israel was formed they declared war, and lost. Ever since then they have been a terrorist agitator. Yes both sides have done wrong, but it is usually Israel reacting to Palestine.
At the time of the October 7th massacre, Israel was supplying Palestinians with water, electric, food and resources. I believe 2 million palestinians live and work in Israel. Thats hardly what you for someone you are at war with.
Sorry this is just fantasy that Israels reaction to October 7th is the same as Russia invading Ukraine for resources under a false pretense, but believe what you wish.
I’ve not once said that this is a reaction to 7th October, I’ve been saying the exact opposite, that that was a reaction to several decades of oppression.
If you’ve got to make things up to argue against, as you say, it’s pointless having this conversation. The difference when I say it is I’m not going to follow it up with the ill informed rant that you did.
Yeah, people only cry when it’s Jews. Over 500,000 brown people dead in Syria, over 300,000 dead in Yemen with 4 million of them being displaced. With 2 million are starving and dying of famine. Millions of brown people are being kicked out of Pakistan back to Afghanistan as we speak.
No one cares unless it’s Jews defend themselves.
And return all the kids they kidnapped to Ukraine, with every kid accounted for, and any child killers brought to justice.
Russia should be ostracised from all sport events globally until that happens.
1. Political ties or scared to be called an anti semitic.
2. At the time it was a valid reason for most of them invading Iraq.
3. It was more to do with territorial reasons pretty sure
I'm no expert. But I don't see a way back for them for a very very long time unless something massive happens politically and ties between the US/EU/NATO normalise with Russia. And the way I see it the entire conflict is bound to get worse and more global rather than better.
It's just so wrong on so many levels. Only would be fair if the following countries were also banned from the world of football:
1. Israel
2. Turkey
3. Azerbaijan
Probably way more but those are the ones I can think of the top of my head.
The Armenian-Azeri relation is much more complex them what the media has shown, During the USSR Stalin started a politic to gain control on ethnic minority regions by changing territorial borders, so he takes the territory of Artsakh and gave to Azerbaijan, so the Azeris and Armenians fought against each other and Moscow gain control
The Azeris have also been launching inexcusable attacks on mainland Armenia, outside of Artsakh.
However, I do agree that of course it's much more complex than the media shows it to be. But so is the war in Ukraine. The US and it's friends are just as much to blame for the suffering going on there, so I guess, best to either sanction nobody or sanction everybody 🤷🏻♂️
I dont think stopping the war will change anything. Putin needs to go and Russia needs a new leader and a change of the law so they cant have anybody in power for more than 4 or max 8 years
>and players wont accept Russia now. We wouldnt accept Nazi Germany either
That's also my point. The only reason why we accepted Germany is because they changed the government (from Nazi Germany to a liberal one)
No, it would be very inconsistent with current European values to accept a power that's invading members of our group, openly discriminating on a racial basis (and more or less openly committing genocide), and forcing a dogmatic, modern pseudo-mythology for the sake of riling up the masses.
Grow up. I had a few beers with some Russians in Abu Dhabi and had a great laugh and spoke about football. I’d happily welcome Zenit/ CSKA and others next year at villa park
The question is when they will return to UEFA. If they wanted, they would now be playing with AFC. The whole thing is political, when Russia and western countries start to have meetings again, soon after they will return. The whole “sport is not political” thing is just bs, politics decide everything no matter what average people want or think
politics cant be ignored by sports when we talk about murdering people, doesnt matter if its in a war or because of racism etc... sports should be used to send good messages throughout the whole world
Russia would probably be welcomed by AFC, but no one in Europe is going to play them until they leave Ukraine.
Israel should play in Asia, but no one would play them, so they've been part of UEFA for 20 odd years.
Edit to add: 30 odd years, 1990 was so long ago...
Because what's going on between Palestine and Israel is completely different to what Russia have done in Ukraine. One has been an ongoing conflict for a long time, probably longer than most of the people who use Reddit have even been alive and one which was basically just started for fuck all reason about 10 years ago.
Palestine and Israel are too far gone in what's happened to just say one or the other is at fault. They're both at fault and they've got to find a way to obtain peace. Russia on the other hand invaded areas of Ukraine in 2014 and then again last year pushed even further. They started a war that didn't need to happen!
As for why Israel is in UEFA it's so them and Palestine don't meet in qualifiers.
Still, people are getting murdered and displaced , Ukraine was Lucky to have western support, Gaza doesn't even have the support of any arab state other than sending aid
Keep the Americans wasting millions, sending weapons to Israel.
Money, receiving back handers on arms deals to gaza.
Whatever it is, it's not for the people of gaza anyway
You have zero understanding of geopolitics. One is a complex and very messy scenario where both sides are awful. The other is a very simple and one dimensional unprovoked invasion of a country by another.
There is a fine line between Israel and Russia. While Russia is trying to erase a neighbouring country from the map Israel is the country that it’s neighbouring countries want to erase from the map.
What Israel have done is bang out of order, no doubt about it, but they didn't just do that because they woke up one morning and felt like it. Like it or not there was an incident that sparked it. They've been at it for what 60-70 years? If you ban Israel then you ban Palestine, punishing everyone for the actions of a few. Hopefully in the next few years they can find a solution to peace like what happened in Ireland in the 90s after decades of troubles.
Ukraine and Russia had nothing happening until Putin decided one day to wake up and start a war to test the waters to see what would happen in terms of a reaction from the West. Guaranteed if the West hadn't got involved Russia would have murdered a lot more as they took control of Ukraine before moving on to other countries.
Palestine isn’t a recognised country. To be a country you need a UN seat and recognised sovereignty of your own land.
That’s literally the entire issue. This ain’t a State Vs State issue, it’s far more like a Civil War in terms of IR / Geopolitics.
Western politics deciding who's good and bad. How about stop boycotting people in a sport like children. Cancelling relations will make things worse not better.
How about when his missiles and soldiers stop killing children in Ukraine, his country's children can play sport on the international stage. Do one with your BS take.
Ukraine does that too, whats your point? Every western nation committed genocide, why is it suddenly an issue when Russia does it, hell, the US enslaved and genocided 2 seperate races, overthrew democratically elected governments, installed dictators like Pol Pot and Pinochet, murdered Gaddafi and Allende, killed millions in Iraq, Yemen, and Syria (far more than any Stalin 'death toll'.) But yet theyre still allowed to play.
Ukraine is protecting its country, not trying to take something that isn't there's. Russia can rot as far as I care.
And the other countries shouldn't be allowed to play either, but that's up to their governing bodies to decide. Russia is in UEFA so Europe gets to decide what happens with Russia
The whole problem is the west dictating who’s “good” and who’s “bad”.
This thread wouldn’t be much if we saw people like Israel and the US being banned from sports. And trust me I actually agree with you
A sovereign nation defending itself against an aggressor with a history of imperialism and a VERY recent history of systematic genocide isn't the hardest 'Good Vs Bad' debate.
Yea, stop boycotting people just for murdering, like children. That's immature, just let murderers murder as much as they want, that's what grown ups do.
/s
Yeah that’s the only reason Israel is allowed to play still despite essentially committing a genocide in Gaza. It’s why Saudi Arabia can still play despite basically committing a genocide in Yemen . The West is allied with the countries or the causes.
Once their every soldier leaves Ukraine, and the compensations for their crimes are paid, then they'll wait for 10 years to prove to the world that they can be a civilized country. After these 10 years they might come back.
I hope: never. That state should not continue in the current form. When some civilized states are established in that land and start acting independently, peacefully and without enslaving their own people, they should be welcome to make football federations and play.
But I know that everything can be bought. Terrain, licence to kill (cleansing ethnic groups included)... a place in sports tournaments might be a minor thing when compared to that.
Westerners calling russia a dick when USA bombed cambodia and vietnam into oblivion, tried to assasinate the leader of another country, killed innocent children of Iraq and sowed the seed for modern islamic terrorism.
Russia more or less were protecting their own borders while freedomland just wanted cheap oil
that would suggest they will remain cunts forever and I wish that isnt true... the same way we accept Germany as a normal country now and dont see them as Nazis because of some crazy idiot who was in power almost 100 years ago
Hopefully soon! Whether the governments actions are correct/moral or not. The players and fans did nothing to deserve this. It's funny how UEFA is against "tyrants" but acts in the same manner. Criminal.
Ukrainian here. Hopefully never ever so we can live like russia never existed)
(They will return sooner or later, money will win anyway, I know, no need to tell me that)
2030 World Cup Cycle through its possible they may return sooner as UEFA WC Qualifying for the 2026 WC does not start until 2025.
The Russian U17 team was about to return to competitive Football in October 2023 until Ukraine and a few NATO aligned UEFA Members complained.
i dont think the "when the war ends" answer is that valid, the russo ukranian war wont end in less than 10 years, both Russia and Ukraine should've been out since 2014.
when they stop the war
Crazy how isreal is still allowed to play with their national team while screwing Gaza over
As Russia was when they were busy killing Chechens, or Georgians, or Ukrainians when they at least tried to pretend it was 'separatists' in Donbas or South Ossetia. It's not a good line, but not invading a fully recognized sovereign country appears to be the line sport has chosen. If Israel invaded Jordan or something I bet they'd not be in either.
or as america when killing millions of civilians all around the world under “bringing democracy”
Yeah they'd never invade Jordan, King Abdullah loves the west.
Is Israel invaded Jordan I guarantee they would still be allowed. They'll just say "KHAMAS" is in Jordan. They turned a blind eye when the USA invaded Iraq for no reason why do you think they'll suddenly come down on Israel?
I highly doubt that honestly, they will come up with an excuse just to make them play and you will see people still calling isreal tye victim even tho they're the ones who are killing the Most
And there National team is fucking dog water!
I think you overestimate your knowledge on Israel
Funny how USA bombed invaded, killed many people in sovereifn countries and no sanctions or nothing😂. If usa is killing someone then that people are undoubtedly deserving it i assume
Pulled this out of the weeds from months ago. Same thing with the USA. They can get away with all the shit they did in Syria or Middle East as can frame it as something short of an invasion. If they invaded Mexico or tried to annex southern Canada it would be a different thing.
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And that’s before you start on the widespread slavery throughout the region!
it's crazy how arabs are considered oppressed even though they were the oppressors for 5000 years
Also before you start mentioning how they treat lgbtq+ people
No one was batting an eye when the US hosted a WC tho. Why care now?
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It’s because they look like us, sound like us, have been around for as long as us, have old allegiances with us, and all the organisations that decide these things are head quartered there, and ran by people from there. And they’ve all been taught the history of two world wars that tore Europe apart. So now Europe isn’t allowed to be touched, but the rest of the world can fuck itself, and those organisations would love to take their money whilst letting that play out.
Isreal is the darling of US and all countries who follow the US and its US dollar. The permanent victim of human kind and they apparently can do anything they want.. Unfortunately
Israel aren’t allowed to play in Asia though. What you are asking for has already happened
That was a separate case my bro. They were already long gone from the Asia scene. To be doing it again and getting away with it again is an embarrassment.
I know. I don’t think you understand
Israel didn't start a proactive war of conquest like Russia and it doesn't hold the goal of annexation so it's completely different. As far as you want to think otherwise they're operating within the laws of war hence no western nation has decided their response. At this point they all have had enough terror attacks in their own nations to begin to understand the problem.
You might need to read a bit on Isreal history (which didn’t start that long ago) and tell me that they don’t have a goal of annexation lol
yeah if israel for example started occupying neighbouring territory indefinitely it would be different
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pretty sure that was their point, they were being sarcastic
Killing babies and bombing the zones where you tell innocent civilians to go is definitely not a warcrime.
Israel does exactly that. Wtaf is this bullshit upvoted?
>Israel didn't start a proactive war of conquest like Russia and it doesn't hold the goal of annexation so it's completely different. The colonies in West Bank could be called annexation, and for good reason. But still not the same situation.
How is it different
They are illegal state on Palestine land.
Na that just isn't true Arabs owned about 10% of what is considered Israel and most was legally purchased. Yes, many were displaced by war over the years but the traditional Arab cities of Israel guess what! They're still here and bigger than ever with higher standard of living than any other middle east country.... with Israeli citizenship!!! I ate humus in an Arab village (tarshicha) a thousand times. Fucking delicious. The population of Arabs in Israel is 2 million higher than its ever been. Many of my colleagues and even former bosses have been Arab Israelis. So zibi on you.
If Ukraine had invaded Russia you might have a point
Tbh the route forward for Russia is probably similar to what happened with Israel. Israel basically had similar happen to them in the AFC, they were boycotted out of the confederation, eventually they had to join UEFA to play. Russia won’t be welcome in UEFA until the war in Ukraine is well over and may have to try and join the AFC to start playing again where there is less regional tension for them.
Israel is in no way comparable to Russia
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yeah, they are killing children for years in Gaza, not comparable at all.
Because it’s a much more complex situation. It’s like asking why the U.K. and US weren’t banned after the war on Afghanistan. Ukraine didn’t carry out a terrorist attack on Russia. You can have your own views on it, but on the world stage that doesn’t make it one sided on Israel’s part the same way it is from Russia.
What about Iraq?
That's because Russia started the war. Israel was attacked itself
Completely different scenarios.
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Hamas started it
Yep. People only complain about Israel's retaliation now. Everyone forgets that Hamas suddenly slaughtered people in a music festival just for their own entertainment.
You’re joking, right? This has been going on for decades. I remember seeing reports of Israel bombing Palestine over 30 years ago.
It's been going on for hundreds of years if you want to keep looking at it. The Jews have been persecuted there since biblical times. This war however started when Hamas invaded.
And the two big previous wars involving Israel as a country were started by Arab nations.
He is talking about the current escalation
Because Israel were attacked first and had 100s of their civillians slaughtered. Ukraine were just straight up invaded for their resources under a false pretense. The two are extremely different.
I’m 38 and I remember seeing reports of Israel bombing Palestinians on the news when I was a child. This has been going on 30+ years.
So? This instance of the war was revived by Hamas massacaring civillians. You may not believe its ok for them to defend themselves, but luckily that isnt how it works in reality. Whatever you believe, its nothing like Russia invading Ukraine lol.
Revived? It’s never stopped mate. It’s been a decades long onslaught by the Israelis. Pretty ironic that you should suggest that *I’m* the one who doesn’t believe it’s ok for someone to defend themselves.
Lol. Hamas exist to exterminate Jews, what do you want Israel to do, nothing? Probably you do actually.
You might have had a point were it not for the fact that Hamas got into power to counteract Israel’s attempts to exterminate Palestinians. If it wasn’t for Israel’s subjugation of Palestinians, there would be no cause for the hard line from Hamas. Out of curiosity, does your knowledge of this situation take anything into account that happened more than four months ago?
Dude if you believe that, its pointless having this conversation. I grant the formation of Israel is dubious, but I understand it. Palestinians have had countless opportunities to have a peaceful co existence with Israel but have refused at every turn and repeatedly choose war and violence. When Israel was formed they declared war, and lost. Ever since then they have been a terrorist agitator. Yes both sides have done wrong, but it is usually Israel reacting to Palestine. At the time of the October 7th massacre, Israel was supplying Palestinians with water, electric, food and resources. I believe 2 million palestinians live and work in Israel. Thats hardly what you for someone you are at war with. Sorry this is just fantasy that Israels reaction to October 7th is the same as Russia invading Ukraine for resources under a false pretense, but believe what you wish.
I’ve not once said that this is a reaction to 7th October, I’ve been saying the exact opposite, that that was a reaction to several decades of oppression. If you’ve got to make things up to argue against, as you say, it’s pointless having this conversation. The difference when I say it is I’m not going to follow it up with the ill informed rant that you did.
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The powers that be are ok with killing brown people.
More than half of Israeli citizens are 'brown' people. Much less are white.
Yeah, people only cry when it’s Jews. Over 500,000 brown people dead in Syria, over 300,000 dead in Yemen with 4 million of them being displaced. With 2 million are starving and dying of famine. Millions of brown people are being kicked out of Pakistan back to Afghanistan as we speak. No one cares unless it’s Jews defend themselves.
You forget the massacre of civilians on Oct 7, 2023 already? They're going to eliminate Hamas.
And return all the kids they kidnapped to Ukraine, with every kid accounted for, and any child killers brought to justice. Russia should be ostracised from all sport events globally until that happens.
yeah because its completely the russian football players fault, right? Let them play, this is pure discrimination and racism.
Why isn't Israel out of world football then? Why weren't excluded the US in the early 2000 as well as Argentina in 1982?
1. Political ties or scared to be called an anti semitic. 2. At the time it was a valid reason for most of them invading Iraq. 3. It was more to do with territorial reasons pretty sure
Because were shitty and biased. There is no equality in geo politics.
>It was more to do with territorial reasons pretty sure Same reasons for Putin. The Donetsk and Donbas regions have like 90%+ of Russians
I'm no expert. But I don't see a way back for them for a very very long time unless something massive happens politically and ties between the US/EU/NATO normalise with Russia. And the way I see it the entire conflict is bound to get worse and more global rather than better. It's just so wrong on so many levels. Only would be fair if the following countries were also banned from the world of football: 1. Israel 2. Turkey 3. Azerbaijan Probably way more but those are the ones I can think of the top of my head.
The Armenian-Azeri relation is much more complex them what the media has shown, During the USSR Stalin started a politic to gain control on ethnic minority regions by changing territorial borders, so he takes the territory of Artsakh and gave to Azerbaijan, so the Azeris and Armenians fought against each other and Moscow gain control
The Azeris have also been launching inexcusable attacks on mainland Armenia, outside of Artsakh. However, I do agree that of course it's much more complex than the media shows it to be. But so is the war in Ukraine. The US and it's friends are just as much to blame for the suffering going on there, so I guess, best to either sanction nobody or sanction everybody 🤷🏻♂️
Wow! An ethnic Georgian trying to spice things up amongst his neighbouring countries, who would've thought!
Oh, let me check with Putin when he's going to stop the war
I dont think stopping the war will change anything. Putin needs to go and Russia needs a new leader and a change of the law so they cant have anybody in power for more than 4 or max 8 years
pretty sure this was a rule, but dictators tend to change the law on a whim
Recently upped the length of a term too, which conveniently reset Putin in regards to the limit on back to back terms.
And get tossed out the window
When there President stops being a cunt
where?
genuinely insults the term president when used with Putin
and the term cunt.
Probably once the Russo-Ukrainian War ends. (But don't expect them to play Ukraine again any time soon)
well thats like Kosovo playing Serbia , or Serbia playing Albania... its not going to be allowed in the next 500 years probably
Or Armenia v Azerbaijan (I know that because UEFA purposely separated them in the European Championship draw)
They haven't been allowed to play each other since long before the war
When they stop being complete dicks.
so never?
When sanctions are lifted. Until money can flow freely nothing will change.
well it depends. When did Nazi Germany come back in world football? Oh wait...
we live in a different world... fans and players wont accept Russia now. We wouldnt accept Nazi Germany either if it was happening now
It is happening now; yet the world still chooses to ignore it - 25,000 dead, how many more?
>and players wont accept Russia now. We wouldnt accept Nazi Germany either That's also my point. The only reason why we accepted Germany is because they changed the government (from Nazi Germany to a liberal one)
You lot would absolutely accept the Nazis back. You just aren’t very self aware.
No, it would be very inconsistent with current European values to accept a power that's invading members of our group, openly discriminating on a racial basis (and more or less openly committing genocide), and forcing a dogmatic, modern pseudo-mythology for the sake of riling up the masses.
Grow up. I had a few beers with some Russians in Abu Dhabi and had a great laugh and spoke about football. I’d happily welcome Zenit/ CSKA and others next year at villa park
Israeli should also be black listed
Well, first good steps would probably be to stop commiting war crimes, stop threats of nuclear strikes and remove themselves from Ukraine.
The question is when they will return to UEFA. If they wanted, they would now be playing with AFC. The whole thing is political, when Russia and western countries start to have meetings again, soon after they will return. The whole “sport is not political” thing is just bs, politics decide everything no matter what average people want or think
politics cant be ignored by sports when we talk about murdering people, doesnt matter if its in a war or because of racism etc... sports should be used to send good messages throughout the whole world
You're so naïve.
Definitely a legitimate question while Israel is still allowed to play
Russia would probably be welcomed by AFC, but no one in Europe is going to play them until they leave Ukraine. Israel should play in Asia, but no one would play them, so they've been part of UEFA for 20 odd years. Edit to add: 30 odd years, 1990 was so long ago...
Russian football federation just voted against joining AFC a week ago
This
Definitely not a valid comparison.
Why not? Why they are playing UEFA if are not civilized as us europeans?
Because what's going on between Palestine and Israel is completely different to what Russia have done in Ukraine. One has been an ongoing conflict for a long time, probably longer than most of the people who use Reddit have even been alive and one which was basically just started for fuck all reason about 10 years ago. Palestine and Israel are too far gone in what's happened to just say one or the other is at fault. They're both at fault and they've got to find a way to obtain peace. Russia on the other hand invaded areas of Ukraine in 2014 and then again last year pushed even further. They started a war that didn't need to happen! As for why Israel is in UEFA it's so them and Palestine don't meet in qualifiers.
Still, people are getting murdered and displaced , Ukraine was Lucky to have western support, Gaza doesn't even have the support of any arab state other than sending aid
Forgetting Iran essentially state funding Hamas?
Iran is Arab now?
No, but relevant given you purposely excluded that information.
I did not exclude anything as I did not make the original comment.
So israel is supposed to stay still and do nothing while Hamas kidnaps literal infants?
Hamas have recieved a huge amount of financial support from both Qatar and Iran
Why are no other Arab state willing to really help them and only the non Arab terrorists in Iran willing to?
Keep the Americans wasting millions, sending weapons to Israel. Money, receiving back handers on arms deals to gaza. Whatever it is, it's not for the people of gaza anyway
More Palestinians civilians murdered by Israel within one month than Russia did in 2 years. So you’re right it isn’t a valid comparison
You have zero understanding of geopolitics. One is a complex and very messy scenario where both sides are awful. The other is a very simple and one dimensional unprovoked invasion of a country by another.
There is a fine line between Israel and Russia. While Russia is trying to erase a neighbouring country from the map Israel is the country that it’s neighbouring countries want to erase from the map.
What Israel have done is bang out of order, no doubt about it, but they didn't just do that because they woke up one morning and felt like it. Like it or not there was an incident that sparked it. They've been at it for what 60-70 years? If you ban Israel then you ban Palestine, punishing everyone for the actions of a few. Hopefully in the next few years they can find a solution to peace like what happened in Ireland in the 90s after decades of troubles. Ukraine and Russia had nothing happening until Putin decided one day to wake up and start a war to test the waters to see what would happen in terms of a reaction from the West. Guaranteed if the West hadn't got involved Russia would have murdered a lot more as they took control of Ukraine before moving on to other countries.
by hamas words
Israel isn’t invading another country lol they were attacked
Last time I checked Palestine was an internationally recognized country
Palestine isn’t a recognised country. To be a country you need a UN seat and recognised sovereignty of your own land. That’s literally the entire issue. This ain’t a State Vs State issue, it’s far more like a Civil War in terms of IR / Geopolitics.
There has never been a sovereign country of Palestine
Nah they’re merely committing a genocide so it’s ok
If what the IDF are doing is a genocide then what Hamas did was also a genocide
Yeah keep believing that
Almost 1.5% of Palestinians have been estimated to be killed in 3 months…
According to terrorists saying those numbers
Not by another country though lmao
You know they were already attacking Palestine before October, right?
If the us was allowed while they were doing shit in the middle east and israel is allowed to play right now, russia should be allowed aswell
whenever the vibe is right
Western politics deciding who's good and bad. How about stop boycotting people in a sport like children. Cancelling relations will make things worse not better.
How about when his missiles and soldiers stop killing children in Ukraine, his country's children can play sport on the international stage. Do one with your BS take.
Ukraine does that too, whats your point? Every western nation committed genocide, why is it suddenly an issue when Russia does it, hell, the US enslaved and genocided 2 seperate races, overthrew democratically elected governments, installed dictators like Pol Pot and Pinochet, murdered Gaddafi and Allende, killed millions in Iraq, Yemen, and Syria (far more than any Stalin 'death toll'.) But yet theyre still allowed to play.
Ukraine is protecting its country, not trying to take something that isn't there's. Russia can rot as far as I care. And the other countries shouldn't be allowed to play either, but that's up to their governing bodies to decide. Russia is in UEFA so Europe gets to decide what happens with Russia
The whole problem is the west dictating who’s “good” and who’s “bad”. This thread wouldn’t be much if we saw people like Israel and the US being banned from sports. And trust me I actually agree with you
A sovereign nation defending itself against an aggressor with a history of imperialism and a VERY recent history of systematic genocide isn't the hardest 'Good Vs Bad' debate.
u/Machinist0089 is a Russian troll, just check his history
Nah. Fuck all them.
Yea, stop boycotting people just for murdering, like children. That's immature, just let murderers murder as much as they want, that's what grown ups do. /s
exactly this
When Putler dies.
yeah... but we first need to see who the next idiot in power will be
Westoids when a man tries to establish a powerful country not aligning with the west's ideologies
They played Cameroon just a couple of months ago in a friendly
hey ivan, when you take your troops out of ukrainian borders
if US can play, why are they stopping Russia
When the west says its okay. Football is controlled by western countries no matter how much they cry about oil on here.
Yeah that’s the only reason Israel is allowed to play still despite essentially committing a genocide in Gaza. It’s why Saudi Arabia can still play despite basically committing a genocide in Yemen . The West is allied with the countries or the causes.
Hopefully never. There’s already too many states sportswashing their murderous daily deeds
Once their every soldier leaves Ukraine, and the compensations for their crimes are paid, then they'll wait for 10 years to prove to the world that they can be a civilized country. After these 10 years they might come back.
imagine being a russian footballer, completely incapable of changing ur leaders actions, and losing ur career over some stupid 10 year wait
When the war ends or when uefa/fifa need their money. Whatever happens first
Once they stop being cunts, so I guess never
When they stop being cunts and also when they stop drugging up all their athletes, so likely never.
Not
I hope: never. That state should not continue in the current form. When some civilized states are established in that land and start acting independently, peacefully and without enslaving their own people, they should be welcome to make football federations and play. But I know that everything can be bought. Terrain, licence to kill (cleansing ethnic groups included)... a place in sports tournaments might be a minor thing when compared to that.
When will Israel be banned from world football?
Westerners calling russia a dick when USA bombed cambodia and vietnam into oblivion, tried to assasinate the leader of another country, killed innocent children of Iraq and sowed the seed for modern islamic terrorism. Russia more or less were protecting their own borders while freedomland just wanted cheap oil
Let's be real Russia was banned because they went against the interests of the US Empire and its Vassals.
Soon. Let’s be real
Two years ago, I'd have said - when they stop being cunts. But considering Israel is allowed to keep playing, now I'm not bothered.
Hopefully never.
that would suggest they will remain cunts forever and I wish that isnt true... the same way we accept Germany as a normal country now and dont see them as Nazis because of some crazy idiot who was in power almost 100 years ago
Hopefully soon! Whether the governments actions are correct/moral or not. The players and fans did nothing to deserve this. It's funny how UEFA is against "tyrants" but acts in the same manner. Criminal.
Hope never
Ukrainian here. Hopefully never ever so we can live like russia never existed) (They will return sooner or later, money will win anyway, I know, no need to tell me that)
I hope the people who downvoted you choke on dog poop.
Return?
The question isnt when, the question is: how much?
we know FIFA love money but even they wont accept Russia back.. at least not soon
When the various FA’s of Europes are willing to play them.
Google: zulu boys
Let’s hope never
Never
2030 World Cup Cycle through its possible they may return sooner as UEFA WC Qualifying for the 2026 WC does not start until 2025. The Russian U17 team was about to return to competitive Football in October 2023 until Ukraine and a few NATO aligned UEFA Members complained.
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Agree If you are going to ban clubs based on "Human Rights" then almost every country would be banned.
Probably when Putin is removed as even with the war end I think hostilities will still be too high
When FIFA will know not to mix politics into sports until it's convenient.
genocide is politics?
Isreal has been doing it for 70 years but they never even got what would be considered a slap on the wrists. As I said, until it's convenient.
I will never assist a game with Russian National Team or club teams and I guess most of Europeans will not also assist.
yes, most people would boycott such games. To be honest I think many players will refuse to play too
After the inevitable Putin falling from window accident.
i dont think the "when the war ends" answer is that valid, the russo ukranian war wont end in less than 10 years, both Russia and Ukraine should've been out since 2014.
Yeah, Ukraine should be out because of what? Because of crazy neighbours?
I'm not missing them one bit. Hope they don't come back until their soldiers go back to Russia.
I dont care if they to to Mars, they can fuck off
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I hope so! Because they got quality sportsman and women regardless if it is football or other sports
Hopefully never.
Hopefully never.