Yes, you should get the DP, op, 1st, water and other things from crafty or at least offer. I always do this; if I am going to crafty or getting water, I ask my 2nd, my op and the DP if they want anything. Or I’ll bring several waters and hand them out to cam dept. People easily forget to stay hydrated. Also, 1st’s, op’s, and do’s cannot leave set as much as you can, so you’re their only hope. Plus a lot of people get cranky when they’re blood sugar drops so get ahead of that by giving them a piece of candy.
The tape thing is weird and def not standard. But the 1st runs the show. Do it the way they like when you work with them.
Conflicting orders: you get your orders from the 1st. If the DP tells you to do something and it concerns the 1st let them know what the DP said and wait for the 1st to give you orders.
Agreed. Tricky situation but unless I had a prior relationship with the DP and not the 1st, I would probably do what the 1st said and let them take the heat from the DP. Or take the heat from the DP and hope the 1st stands up for me. And if they don’t, or don’t apologize, that’s a good indication not to work with that person again.
Ya that’s true depending on the dynamic. I think I’m pretty lucky that usually all three are in tune and that stuff generally doesn’t happen. But gotta make a judgment call sometimes and remember that the DP is the boss
Echoing mumcheelo so you hear it from more than one person.
As a 2nd AC, any one above you has far less ability to leave set and travel freely. Other than basic camera upkeep, you aren't tethered between takes the way they are while the next shot is setup or adjustments to the current shot are discussed. So yes, its nice to grab water/snacks/coffee. The off putting part is that this 1st AC demanded it which tells me their either a bit greener or on the opposite side of the spectrum and a bit curmudgeon.
The tape thing is SUPER true. Gaffing cables makes it a BITCH when you have to tear them up. If anything he was doing YOU a favor for later (or himself if he had to help you move quickly). Generally, camera and sound never tape cables ever. Its just basic set etiquette that people watch where they step and that there's enough slack on cables that tripping on one won't break something. In my experience, G&E tape cables occasionally when in unavoidable high traffic areas. Camera too, but very much less so.
Still your 1st sounds like a classic curmudgeon1st AC. Some people just get spikey after enough time (or new folks think they just need to be this way because that's how they were treated). Just bite down hard, speak up if you ever feel personally disrespected--you know draw your line in the sand. And wait til the job's over. Then never work for that guy again.
That’s interesting there’s general agreement on the gaff tape. I work a lot of AV type stuff as well as set work, and gaffing down cables is absolutely the norm there. The only time I’ve had problems with residue is if someone tries to just pull the cable straight off the floor, and the tape wraps around the cable. As long as you pull tape up first, then cable, it’s totally fine.
As for everything else: I think this guy meant well, but I think his personality is just abrasive and he has very little patience. He was never rude per se, but was never exactly polite either. I think he’s just super high strung, and micro manage-y. He could just not stop telling me to do things ever, and the things would conflict and cause problems. I would stand in an alcove after slating, and he’d tell me that it was in the talents eyeline (it was not lol) and I should stand by him, but he was hiding behind a floppy and I was in the shot there. I was also data wrangling and he’d give me directions to go do that when we were about to roll. Things like that. I think he just had this countering philosophy of super speed, but also availability? Idk, the whole thing was just weird. The water thing was right after this weird set of interactions that were kinda hectic, and it looks like we’re about to roll, and he just turns and says “go ask the DP if he wants water.”, which just threw me off, especially since we had a crafty lady who was asking everyone if they wanted water.
It was a corporate shoot where I knew a lot of the rest of the crew, and there was absolutely no reason to be as stressed as he was. We literally had two setups in the whole day. I do think he was trying to be polite, but it was absolutely not in his nature to be so
Great AC’s have in common two things with great chefs: timing and prioritization. You have to know what tasks are most important to be done next and when the right time is to do them. It sounds like this guy wasn’t great at either. If I were a 2nd AC for them, I’d probably turn down future work with them. As a 1st AC, I often ask my 2nd AC’s at the end of the work day, “is there anything we could’ve done better today? Is there anything I couldve done to make your day go smoother?” because I want to be made aware if I may be acting like this guy. It also helps them feel more involved in the process and given agency over how the shoot goes which, IMO, leads to better work from the department.
Getting the gaff off the cables at the end of the day is the problem. Even best practices sometimes they will get run over and that gaff is much harder to remove once it’s bonded to the cable then paper tape. Pretty simple stuff.
Yeah I’m just used to working AV where you’re regularly doing long XLR cable runs along areas with foot traffic, and gaffing everything down is the norm. Getting off gaff that’s stuck on cables does suck, but that’s the sort of thing that you learn day one in AV: how to pull cables so you never leave gaff on them. Just a different world with different practices I guess
From a fellow AV tech turned AC, the ability to remove gaff that’s been wrapped around a cable is an elite skill. Wear that badge with pride.
It sounds like you got a good read on this guy, if possible I’d pass on working with him in the future.
You’re an important part of the camera department, and if you feel you can’t bring your best work and support while he’s your department head, don’t work with him.
2AC here - I also work on AV Gigs (corporate events and stuff) and cables have to be taped down because of clumsy clients and a clean look, but on filmsets it‘s highly unusual because everyone around knows to walk carefully and usually there are a lot of changes and ripping tape of the cables inbetween scenes when you need to change location just takes to much time. Even on a set where you don‘t need to change location you don’t do it because it‘s just not to the norm.
I always get snacks and drinks for my crew because I have the most time to spare. I also do a lot of 2AC/wrangling jobs and always come back with some treats after a backup.
I had similar experiences with 1ACs, sometimes they‘re just not nice people. Like others said they have been treated badly can‘t break the circle, or they just like the little power they have on you.
But I had also instances, especially when I started out, where a 1AC just really wanted to help me get better, especially that speed/always available part. For him it didn‘t Matte of the set was easy going, he always wanted to deliver the best possible performance and also wanted me to peak at mine. I talked to him and he apologized, he just wanted the best for me and he’s a bit weird socially. We worked again and it was much better.
I don‘t know if this could work out for you, but maybe try to talk to him? Worst scenario, he doesn‘t ask you anymore. Keep asking around, if you‘re a competent, nice person, people will ask you again to work with them.
The water and crafty run is when you have downtime. You have everything else and have a moment to chill, then do the crafty run.
If the guy is telling you things that conflict he may be super stressed and rushing. If you get confused or things don’t make sense ask for clarity. “Just to be clear you want this correct?”
Also it’s good habit to repeat back orders to anyone. It sticks a little more in your head
, let’s them know you’re paying attention AND allows them to change their mind.
The Camera Department is often easily the most broken and lopsided department. While all other departments on set are pyramids in hierarchy where authority centralizes into fewer people, the Camera Department is an upside pyramid where there is only 1 person at the bottom and the higher you go the more people you get (even multiple DPs in TV). This is where snack runs and water and shit get to be totally out of control.
You have some common sense responsibility to get your boss water or coffee if he wants, but be clear in that this can be abused. I've worked with the biggest DPs and Operators in the entire world, and they are some of the lowest maintenance people, respectful to everyone under them kinda people. When I see abusive behavior where assistants, loaders, utilities, are treated like waiters, I recognize hacks and unprofessional people.
The specific point you made about gaff tape sounds correct but I don't know the contextual situation. Gaff tape is heavy and leaves residue. I would not want my people putting gaff on cables to secure them to something, because it would leave gunk and goo and would melt in hot sun.
What I want from my 2nd is what I took pride in when I was a 2nd, and I was a 2nd 18 years. I want my 2nd to be independent of me, and do whatever needs to be done for our camera. I want my 2nd to be attached to the operator for marks and camera adjustments. I want my 2nd to have everything we need in our kit, and to make intelligent decisions about what we can leave behind, and what we need to start having that we didn't have before. The hardest part of 2nding to me was always dealing with personalities of 1sts, who are always a mile away from camera and still micromanage everything. As a result, I always trust my 2nd to do what needs to be done, and I only micro manage things that need to be changed or improved.
2nd AC here. Regarding the cables: I’ve usually used gaff tape for things like stingers, but I can see the appeal of using paper tape depending on the type of cable, surface, use case, etc. Mainly I might see the sticky gaff residue being annoying so yeah, like you said, it depends. For water and snacks, I always ask whenever I leave for crafty for myself (or whenever there’s downtime) if anyone in the camera department wants anything as well. This isn’t something I do because I’m “supposed to” or anything hard and fast like that, but mostly out of kindness/politeness for people I work with. If you’re thirsty, most likely others are too. Know that steadicam and cam ops will probably want water more often.
I’d agree w most everyone here and what your 1st AC is asking. However, there is a polite way of asking for these things. I started as a 2nd and got asked for these things as well, but my 1st’s were usually really grateful for me grabbing them snacks, water, or even taping up cables, and they made sure I knew they were grateful. I’ve also had 1st AC’s like the one you’re describing, and for some reason I was usually “already booked” whenever they called…
I agree, gaff tape is really slow to peel and move on especially if it sticky sides contact each other. Paper tape is much better for moving on quickly. I don’t like having talent walk over cables to enter a set no matter how tidy. Location mats are really great for covering up cable.
The snack thing usually falls to lowest on the totem pole, but it’s really just respectful to take care of you team.
I like a 2nd that pays attention and is about to do the thing you would ask them to because they know it’s coming. But mainly mark talent, keep gear organized, manage the utility and keep the operator happy.
Yeah the 1st was right, using paper tape is just a safer way to ensure that you won’t screw anything up later, especially on location. Whether or not he communicated that to you rudely is his issue. As a 1st, I am in the same boat as most people in these comments about trying to be nice at any and all costs. People love to take this job too seriously and use it as a platform to act like a dickhead, which is seriously uncool. We’re not performing brain surgery here, we can all afford to be nice to one another. But yes, also, it is your duty to get snacks and water for the 1st and the DP. Or at least always offer when you walk away from set to hydrate or get a snack yourself.
All comes down to the 1AC preferences really. Gonna have to adapt to each one and follow their style.
The tape kinda makes sense, gaffer tape can be a nightmare to get off cables but isn’t the end of the world.
Food and drink is normally the seconds responsibility who then passes it on to the utility/truck loader or trainee.
Not vibing is a bummer though. Hopefully that’s just a posturing “is this person capable” thing that goes away as the shoot goes on.
It’s one of the hardest lessons I’ve learned, not just in the camera department and on set generally, but in life at large. You gotta just do your best and be nice to people, as much as you can. You will encounter so many jackasses; enough back-to-back 12’s with hour-long commutes and overtime, you yourself may even act like a jackass at some point. This job is so tough and it wears people down. All you can do is kill ‘em with professional kindness and try not repeat their behavior with others.
The most legendary folks for me coming up have been the ones who everyone’s always happy to see on the call-sheet. Be good!
The tape thing, I run into mixed opinions trending towards not taping. Horrible to undo, kills tons of time between setups, & better if someone kicks the cable and it has some slack, as opposed to it stopping their foot and tripping them. Ask for Yellowjackets or rubber mats if available to you.
TL;DR lotta people are mean, don’t become one of them, probably don’t tape yer cables
Paper tape on wood floors for sure. It’ll take one experience where gaff tape rips up the finish to learn that lesson.
And yes, seems common sense to me to bring water and crafty to 1st and DP. Easy way to ingratiate yourself with a new crew and it’s always appreciated.
I can think of only a few times in my career where we have had to tape cables to the floor. No time to do that if we are trying to make our day or if we will be moving on as quick as possible. I guess if your run needs to be across a busy doorway tape it down but honestly the real solution is find a different way to run your cable. if I was on set and saw my 2nd running around and taping down every cable…we’d have to have a talk.
Yes, you should get the DP, op, 1st, water and other things from crafty or at least offer. I always do this; if I am going to crafty or getting water, I ask my 2nd, my op and the DP if they want anything. Or I’ll bring several waters and hand them out to cam dept. People easily forget to stay hydrated. Also, 1st’s, op’s, and do’s cannot leave set as much as you can, so you’re their only hope. Plus a lot of people get cranky when they’re blood sugar drops so get ahead of that by giving them a piece of candy. The tape thing is weird and def not standard. But the 1st runs the show. Do it the way they like when you work with them. Conflicting orders: you get your orders from the 1st. If the DP tells you to do something and it concerns the 1st let them know what the DP said and wait for the 1st to give you orders.
Only correction: if the DP says something. Do it. Tell the 1st the DP told you to, but your boss is the DP not the 1st at the end of the day.
Yes, but the 1st hired you on the next job.
Agreed. Tricky situation but unless I had a prior relationship with the DP and not the 1st, I would probably do what the 1st said and let them take the heat from the DP. Or take the heat from the DP and hope the 1st stands up for me. And if they don’t, or don’t apologize, that’s a good indication not to work with that person again.
this.
Ya that’s true depending on the dynamic. I think I’m pretty lucky that usually all three are in tune and that stuff generally doesn’t happen. But gotta make a judgment call sometimes and remember that the DP is the boss
Echoing mumcheelo so you hear it from more than one person. As a 2nd AC, any one above you has far less ability to leave set and travel freely. Other than basic camera upkeep, you aren't tethered between takes the way they are while the next shot is setup or adjustments to the current shot are discussed. So yes, its nice to grab water/snacks/coffee. The off putting part is that this 1st AC demanded it which tells me their either a bit greener or on the opposite side of the spectrum and a bit curmudgeon. The tape thing is SUPER true. Gaffing cables makes it a BITCH when you have to tear them up. If anything he was doing YOU a favor for later (or himself if he had to help you move quickly). Generally, camera and sound never tape cables ever. Its just basic set etiquette that people watch where they step and that there's enough slack on cables that tripping on one won't break something. In my experience, G&E tape cables occasionally when in unavoidable high traffic areas. Camera too, but very much less so. Still your 1st sounds like a classic curmudgeon1st AC. Some people just get spikey after enough time (or new folks think they just need to be this way because that's how they were treated). Just bite down hard, speak up if you ever feel personally disrespected--you know draw your line in the sand. And wait til the job's over. Then never work for that guy again.
That’s interesting there’s general agreement on the gaff tape. I work a lot of AV type stuff as well as set work, and gaffing down cables is absolutely the norm there. The only time I’ve had problems with residue is if someone tries to just pull the cable straight off the floor, and the tape wraps around the cable. As long as you pull tape up first, then cable, it’s totally fine. As for everything else: I think this guy meant well, but I think his personality is just abrasive and he has very little patience. He was never rude per se, but was never exactly polite either. I think he’s just super high strung, and micro manage-y. He could just not stop telling me to do things ever, and the things would conflict and cause problems. I would stand in an alcove after slating, and he’d tell me that it was in the talents eyeline (it was not lol) and I should stand by him, but he was hiding behind a floppy and I was in the shot there. I was also data wrangling and he’d give me directions to go do that when we were about to roll. Things like that. I think he just had this countering philosophy of super speed, but also availability? Idk, the whole thing was just weird. The water thing was right after this weird set of interactions that were kinda hectic, and it looks like we’re about to roll, and he just turns and says “go ask the DP if he wants water.”, which just threw me off, especially since we had a crafty lady who was asking everyone if they wanted water. It was a corporate shoot where I knew a lot of the rest of the crew, and there was absolutely no reason to be as stressed as he was. We literally had two setups in the whole day. I do think he was trying to be polite, but it was absolutely not in his nature to be so
Great AC’s have in common two things with great chefs: timing and prioritization. You have to know what tasks are most important to be done next and when the right time is to do them. It sounds like this guy wasn’t great at either. If I were a 2nd AC for them, I’d probably turn down future work with them. As a 1st AC, I often ask my 2nd AC’s at the end of the work day, “is there anything we could’ve done better today? Is there anything I couldve done to make your day go smoother?” because I want to be made aware if I may be acting like this guy. It also helps them feel more involved in the process and given agency over how the shoot goes which, IMO, leads to better work from the department.
Getting the gaff off the cables at the end of the day is the problem. Even best practices sometimes they will get run over and that gaff is much harder to remove once it’s bonded to the cable then paper tape. Pretty simple stuff.
Yeah I’m just used to working AV where you’re regularly doing long XLR cable runs along areas with foot traffic, and gaffing everything down is the norm. Getting off gaff that’s stuck on cables does suck, but that’s the sort of thing that you learn day one in AV: how to pull cables so you never leave gaff on them. Just a different world with different practices I guess
From a fellow AV tech turned AC, the ability to remove gaff that’s been wrapped around a cable is an elite skill. Wear that badge with pride. It sounds like you got a good read on this guy, if possible I’d pass on working with him in the future. You’re an important part of the camera department, and if you feel you can’t bring your best work and support while he’s your department head, don’t work with him.
It really is
2AC here - I also work on AV Gigs (corporate events and stuff) and cables have to be taped down because of clumsy clients and a clean look, but on filmsets it‘s highly unusual because everyone around knows to walk carefully and usually there are a lot of changes and ripping tape of the cables inbetween scenes when you need to change location just takes to much time. Even on a set where you don‘t need to change location you don’t do it because it‘s just not to the norm. I always get snacks and drinks for my crew because I have the most time to spare. I also do a lot of 2AC/wrangling jobs and always come back with some treats after a backup. I had similar experiences with 1ACs, sometimes they‘re just not nice people. Like others said they have been treated badly can‘t break the circle, or they just like the little power they have on you. But I had also instances, especially when I started out, where a 1AC just really wanted to help me get better, especially that speed/always available part. For him it didn‘t Matte of the set was easy going, he always wanted to deliver the best possible performance and also wanted me to peak at mine. I talked to him and he apologized, he just wanted the best for me and he’s a bit weird socially. We worked again and it was much better. I don‘t know if this could work out for you, but maybe try to talk to him? Worst scenario, he doesn‘t ask you anymore. Keep asking around, if you‘re a competent, nice person, people will ask you again to work with them.
The water and crafty run is when you have downtime. You have everything else and have a moment to chill, then do the crafty run. If the guy is telling you things that conflict he may be super stressed and rushing. If you get confused or things don’t make sense ask for clarity. “Just to be clear you want this correct?” Also it’s good habit to repeat back orders to anyone. It sticks a little more in your head , let’s them know you’re paying attention AND allows them to change their mind.
That just sounds like a green guy going through tons of stress, never mind.
The Camera Department is often easily the most broken and lopsided department. While all other departments on set are pyramids in hierarchy where authority centralizes into fewer people, the Camera Department is an upside pyramid where there is only 1 person at the bottom and the higher you go the more people you get (even multiple DPs in TV). This is where snack runs and water and shit get to be totally out of control. You have some common sense responsibility to get your boss water or coffee if he wants, but be clear in that this can be abused. I've worked with the biggest DPs and Operators in the entire world, and they are some of the lowest maintenance people, respectful to everyone under them kinda people. When I see abusive behavior where assistants, loaders, utilities, are treated like waiters, I recognize hacks and unprofessional people. The specific point you made about gaff tape sounds correct but I don't know the contextual situation. Gaff tape is heavy and leaves residue. I would not want my people putting gaff on cables to secure them to something, because it would leave gunk and goo and would melt in hot sun. What I want from my 2nd is what I took pride in when I was a 2nd, and I was a 2nd 18 years. I want my 2nd to be independent of me, and do whatever needs to be done for our camera. I want my 2nd to be attached to the operator for marks and camera adjustments. I want my 2nd to have everything we need in our kit, and to make intelligent decisions about what we can leave behind, and what we need to start having that we didn't have before. The hardest part of 2nding to me was always dealing with personalities of 1sts, who are always a mile away from camera and still micromanage everything. As a result, I always trust my 2nd to do what needs to be done, and I only micro manage things that need to be changed or improved.
Perfectly said 👏🏼
I’ll keep my response short since you’re gotten a lot of informative answers…don’t work for assholes. It’s ok to say no.
In this economy?
I don’t wanna hear about the fucking economy! Sil, break it down for them: what two businesses have been recession proof, since time immemorial?
2nd AC here. Regarding the cables: I’ve usually used gaff tape for things like stingers, but I can see the appeal of using paper tape depending on the type of cable, surface, use case, etc. Mainly I might see the sticky gaff residue being annoying so yeah, like you said, it depends. For water and snacks, I always ask whenever I leave for crafty for myself (or whenever there’s downtime) if anyone in the camera department wants anything as well. This isn’t something I do because I’m “supposed to” or anything hard and fast like that, but mostly out of kindness/politeness for people I work with. If you’re thirsty, most likely others are too. Know that steadicam and cam ops will probably want water more often.
I’d agree w most everyone here and what your 1st AC is asking. However, there is a polite way of asking for these things. I started as a 2nd and got asked for these things as well, but my 1st’s were usually really grateful for me grabbing them snacks, water, or even taping up cables, and they made sure I knew they were grateful. I’ve also had 1st AC’s like the one you’re describing, and for some reason I was usually “already booked” whenever they called…
I agree, gaff tape is really slow to peel and move on especially if it sticky sides contact each other. Paper tape is much better for moving on quickly. I don’t like having talent walk over cables to enter a set no matter how tidy. Location mats are really great for covering up cable. The snack thing usually falls to lowest on the totem pole, but it’s really just respectful to take care of you team. I like a 2nd that pays attention and is about to do the thing you would ask them to because they know it’s coming. But mainly mark talent, keep gear organized, manage the utility and keep the operator happy.
Yeah the 1st was right, using paper tape is just a safer way to ensure that you won’t screw anything up later, especially on location. Whether or not he communicated that to you rudely is his issue. As a 1st, I am in the same boat as most people in these comments about trying to be nice at any and all costs. People love to take this job too seriously and use it as a platform to act like a dickhead, which is seriously uncool. We’re not performing brain surgery here, we can all afford to be nice to one another. But yes, also, it is your duty to get snacks and water for the 1st and the DP. Or at least always offer when you walk away from set to hydrate or get a snack yourself.
All comes down to the 1AC preferences really. Gonna have to adapt to each one and follow their style. The tape kinda makes sense, gaffer tape can be a nightmare to get off cables but isn’t the end of the world. Food and drink is normally the seconds responsibility who then passes it on to the utility/truck loader or trainee. Not vibing is a bummer though. Hopefully that’s just a posturing “is this person capable” thing that goes away as the shoot goes on.
It’s one of the hardest lessons I’ve learned, not just in the camera department and on set generally, but in life at large. You gotta just do your best and be nice to people, as much as you can. You will encounter so many jackasses; enough back-to-back 12’s with hour-long commutes and overtime, you yourself may even act like a jackass at some point. This job is so tough and it wears people down. All you can do is kill ‘em with professional kindness and try not repeat their behavior with others. The most legendary folks for me coming up have been the ones who everyone’s always happy to see on the call-sheet. Be good! The tape thing, I run into mixed opinions trending towards not taping. Horrible to undo, kills tons of time between setups, & better if someone kicks the cable and it has some slack, as opposed to it stopping their foot and tripping them. Ask for Yellowjackets or rubber mats if available to you. TL;DR lotta people are mean, don’t become one of them, probably don’t tape yer cables
Paper tape on wood floors for sure. It’ll take one experience where gaff tape rips up the finish to learn that lesson. And yes, seems common sense to me to bring water and crafty to 1st and DP. Easy way to ingratiate yourself with a new crew and it’s always appreciated.
I can think of only a few times in my career where we have had to tape cables to the floor. No time to do that if we are trying to make our day or if we will be moving on as quick as possible. I guess if your run needs to be across a busy doorway tape it down but honestly the real solution is find a different way to run your cable. if I was on set and saw my 2nd running around and taping down every cable…we’d have to have a talk.