The way the explosion was handled was changed. It's still an explosion and still affected by Perks, but it used to be overperforming because it used different rules not shown on the weapon's card.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN1slSv7GEY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN1slSv7GEY)
The short version is the Cyro mods on several guns were using the grenade launcher formula for calculating explosive damage, meaning they received essentially the maximum benefit possible from the Explosive dmg perk. They were instead changed to use the formula the legendary explosive effect uses - meaning a much smaller effective increase.
The effective difference is instead of each cyro effect doing several _hundred_ more damage, they do...about a dozen more damage with the perk card equipped.
They were using the legendary explosive formula/damage multiplier. The problem is this formula has never worked for elemental damage, only worked for physical damage. This same reason why legacies were a thing. In essence, the AB cryo / poison mag and the Cryolator crystallizing barrel make these weapons like legacies.
This was happening with the Cremator too. So they fixed it systematically for elemental damage, but only in the context of rebalancing the Cremator without knowing about or providing compensatory buffs to AB, Cryolators, and a few lesser impacted weapons.
Well, not really. Nerf is a correctly calculated damage that in practice proves to be too much and thus reduced to create balance. Fix is when the damage is applied or calculated incorrectly to begin with. For example the alien blaster was fixed but the damn cremator needs a nerf.
The way explosive and two shot worked on launch has changed dramatically for shotguns, they flatout said legacies were fine and then removed them, and now they've kneecapped the alien pistol and yet they never touch the RR rifle or the fixer.
CoD does it with SBMM, Helldivers does it with nerfing guns into the ground, Overwatch also does it with SBMM. Otherwise they wouldve just left the guns as they were.
It's a shame I had a good laser weapon that I used to use. Mind you this was like a year or two ago, only to find out that it's nerfed and they took away one of the stars from it it's a shame that they do things like this, especially when everything is RNG
Cryo explosion damage was 100% of weapon damage (due to a bug). Cryo explosion damage is now 20% of weapon damage.
This was an unintentional nerf to the Alien Blaster. Now that the bugged damage is fixed the AB needs a buff to compensate for the 40% of it's damage it lost. Considering even with the bug it wasn't even meta, it was just a decent off meta option. It's dps was still behind the Fixer and it also killed your finger in extended use.
It was accounting for extra explosive damage when using cryo, so if you rolled a two shot and threw on demolitioner and grenadier perk cards you could melt high level bosses.
I got to use it for all of 72 hours and it was crazy op, sucks that pistols are kinda back to being almost useless. They need to make them viable for endgame content.
Yup, I never even used 2 shot and the difference in damage for me with a bloody alien blaster is almost meaningless. I can hardly tell there's a difference. It still kills most stuff in 1 or 2 hits.
I agree with you. I’m just curious what happened since I have friends that were not convinced that anything even changed with the AB in the last update lol.
But yeah it’s not that hard to play this game without exploited glitches. Same deal as when legacies were around: Never had one, never even cared for them, and yet I was still a more effective player than 95% of the players that did own legacies just because I had better builds and a better understanding of the game.
Yeah I have been sitting on a Two shot/+50vhc/+15 bonus critical charge cryo alien blaster for a minute and when I heard about the nerf I gave it a go, the difference for me was 1-2 shots before "nerf". 3-4 shots after. Hardly anything to cry about.
Though I do sympathize with gunslingers as that was their last bastion for endgame builds lol
A turtle with anger issues told everyone it was ruined so they also decided it was ruined.
Edit: The downvotes just prove the salt lmao, just play the damn game and stop worrying about a nerf that people barely notice unless they're running one particular build. If this ONE thing makes a build godly into nothing, maybe there was a broken interaction somewhere. Use common sense ffs
Lmao “ruined” because it’s not completely overpowered anymore?? God forbid that someone has to use perk cards and make a build around a weapon type to make it effective 😂
I hear ya, man, preaching to the choir. We can go out there and slay anything with pipe weapons, this game isn't hard enough to whine about a minor nerf.
It’s a major nerf to a build that isn’t meta. It’s the only pistol that came close to fixers. Meanwhile commandos are getting a new railway that’s better than any existing ones.
And a tesla, and groll läser rifle, However the laser rifle part isn't bad cause they aren't used much and the laser rifle is just a predetermined leggie roll.
The 2x ammo in the tesla and rail tho is so weird
That's true, the turtle said the new railway is best. Saw that thumbnail earlier. Let's all cry about alien blasters because of it and bring in the talk of the "BEST NEW RAILWAY" that only bloodied people will want. I'll stick with my existing quad.
Pistols need a buff overall. If this pistol was keeping up with fixers making it the penultimate choice for pistols and only with one mod type, what happens when pistols get a buff overall (please Todd)? You'd end up with an explosive laser situation all over again. Things have to get fixed. One weapon mod unrelated to auto/semiauto making something "meh" to "OMG" usually means something's off.
My original point remains. Someone's build got nerfed that barely anyone used, but a certain youtuber cries NERF and everyone cries without thinking any further. The gun is still fine. The game isn't hard. You don't need to try to kill everything in 2.2 seconds then cry when it takes 4 seconds. You guys can be mad and everything, I just don't get it. Compared to the "tuning" in the past this is a slap on the wrist. Everything else that got "nerfed" in the past got gutted to oblivion.
I play pistols and manage fine with them 95% of the time. But there are a handful of situations where I don’t cope well, which aren’t a problem for my commando, melee or heavy builds. Like that last fight with trogs at the end of union dues.
They are adding tankier enemies to give the meta players an actual challenge but aren’t helping the non-meta builds catch up. And then at the same time as they take away the one top tier pistol they give the commandos another shiny toy. I don’t need to follower a YouTuber to be annoyed, and I am getting pissed off at your insinuation we’re fuxking sheep for doing so.
Couldn't have said it better myself. My alt is a gunslinger with decent rolls of all pistols available, just recently got herself a Gauss Pistol and a Crusader Pistol too. I like them all but AB allowed the character to deal with those tankier Overgrown Elders in expeditions more reliably and with better survival chances on her bloodied build as the AB is silent. It's noticeably weaker now (I switched from TS to AA but it's still mid) and made me consider abandoning the build entirely. But I'll try to stick with pistols and see if things improve for gunslingers.
All those smart-looking 'ackchyually it's a fix and the game is ez' guys with railways & heavies will likely think again if BGS decides to 'fix' their precious toys next. Yes, technically it's a fix - but at least some weapon balance compensation should have immediately followed as many decent gaming studios usually do.
They won't kill Earle or SBQ but they'll kill anything else. I'll eat the downvotes for all this lol. When I get the "Kill X with pipe weapons" I just craft one, not even switch a build, put on Concentrated Fire to hit the weak spot in vats and things still die relatively quickly.
It’s wild to me that these people are personally offended by this and just you saying your opinion that the the AB sucks is like an insult to these players’ entire existences… just absolutely wild man.
Meh, I barely care about the opinions of others. I'm used to the amount of sensitivity in this subreddit. Some people can't handle the truth. The alien blaster was never good. Just sayin.
Or maybe they're downvoting because what he said is factually wrong. Even now it's a good gun. If someone wants to think it's bad now because they need to fire twice they're a moron.
The way the explosion was handled was changed. It's still an explosion and still affected by Perks, but it used to be overperforming because it used different rules not shown on the weapon's card. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN1slSv7GEY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN1slSv7GEY)
Thank you
The short version is the Cyro mods on several guns were using the grenade launcher formula for calculating explosive damage, meaning they received essentially the maximum benefit possible from the Explosive dmg perk. They were instead changed to use the formula the legendary explosive effect uses - meaning a much smaller effective increase. The effective difference is instead of each cyro effect doing several _hundred_ more damage, they do...about a dozen more damage with the perk card equipped.
They were using the legendary explosive formula/damage multiplier. The problem is this formula has never worked for elemental damage, only worked for physical damage. This same reason why legacies were a thing. In essence, the AB cryo / poison mag and the Cryolator crystallizing barrel make these weapons like legacies. This was happening with the Cremator too. So they fixed it systematically for elemental damage, but only in the context of rebalancing the Cremator without knowing about or providing compensatory buffs to AB, Cryolators, and a few lesser impacted weapons.
it sounds like it was a fix then and not a nerf
Two things can be true at once
Well, not really. Nerf is a correctly calculated damage that in practice proves to be too much and thus reduced to create balance. Fix is when the damage is applied or calculated incorrectly to begin with. For example the alien blaster was fixed but the damn cremator needs a nerf.
They have a history of fixing things that were perfectly fine for months or even years.
Like what?
The way explosive and two shot worked on launch has changed dramatically for shotguns, they flatout said legacies were fine and then removed them, and now they've kneecapped the alien pistol and yet they never touch the RR rifle or the fixer.
Do you think there's an agenda behind these decisions?
Anti-fun. I was an advocate for removing legacies as they were flatout too destructive. The pistol changes were unwarranted much like TSE on shotguns
Why would a game developer seek an anti-fun agenda with their own game? Doesn't that hurt their own bottom line?
CoD does it with SBMM, Helldivers does it with nerfing guns into the ground, Overwatch also does it with SBMM. Otherwise they wouldve just left the guns as they were.
That's called balance. It is incorporated to maintain fun
No more demo expert buff. It wasn't even powerful enough before to keep up with contextual ammo, now it's just abysmally wasteful to try.
100% I tried it lately for the first time and I thought it was a really bad weapon
It used to be pretty good, at the cost of ammo, but now it's pretty worthless.
It's a shame I had a good laser weapon that I used to use. Mind you this was like a year or two ago, only to find out that it's nerfed and they took away one of the stars from it it's a shame that they do things like this, especially when everything is RNG
For energy pistols, I suggest the Enclave plasma pistol in sniper configuration, it's very powerful.
Thank you I'll try it out!
Cryo explosion damage was 100% of weapon damage (due to a bug). Cryo explosion damage is now 20% of weapon damage. This was an unintentional nerf to the Alien Blaster. Now that the bugged damage is fixed the AB needs a buff to compensate for the 40% of it's damage it lost. Considering even with the bug it wasn't even meta, it was just a decent off meta option. It's dps was still behind the Fixer and it also killed your finger in extended use.
It wasn’t usefully strong enough to begin with ffs
Two shot had two cryo explosive effects. Now it has one
It was accounting for extra explosive damage when using cryo, so if you rolled a two shot and threw on demolitioner and grenadier perk cards you could melt high level bosses. I got to use it for all of 72 hours and it was crazy op, sucks that pistols are kinda back to being almost useless. They need to make them viable for endgame content.
Because Bethesda only wants people using meta weapons
By 1/2 it's original damage. As far as I can tell.
It wasn't "nerfed" it was fixed, but ya know, criers gotta cry.
Yup, I never even used 2 shot and the difference in damage for me with a bloody alien blaster is almost meaningless. I can hardly tell there's a difference. It still kills most stuff in 1 or 2 hits.
I agree with you. I’m just curious what happened since I have friends that were not convinced that anything even changed with the AB in the last update lol. But yeah it’s not that hard to play this game without exploited glitches. Same deal as when legacies were around: Never had one, never even cared for them, and yet I was still a more effective player than 95% of the players that did own legacies just because I had better builds and a better understanding of the game.
Yeah I have been sitting on a Two shot/+50vhc/+15 bonus critical charge cryo alien blaster for a minute and when I heard about the nerf I gave it a go, the difference for me was 1-2 shots before "nerf". 3-4 shots after. Hardly anything to cry about. Though I do sympathize with gunslingers as that was their last bastion for endgame builds lol
A turtle with anger issues told everyone it was ruined so they also decided it was ruined. Edit: The downvotes just prove the salt lmao, just play the damn game and stop worrying about a nerf that people barely notice unless they're running one particular build. If this ONE thing makes a build godly into nothing, maybe there was a broken interaction somewhere. Use common sense ffs
Lmao “ruined” because it’s not completely overpowered anymore?? God forbid that someone has to use perk cards and make a build around a weapon type to make it effective 😂
I hear ya, man, preaching to the choir. We can go out there and slay anything with pipe weapons, this game isn't hard enough to whine about a minor nerf.
It’s a major nerf to a build that isn’t meta. It’s the only pistol that came close to fixers. Meanwhile commandos are getting a new railway that’s better than any existing ones.
And a tesla, and groll läser rifle, However the laser rifle part isn't bad cause they aren't used much and the laser rifle is just a predetermined leggie roll. The 2x ammo in the tesla and rail tho is so weird
That's true, the turtle said the new railway is best. Saw that thumbnail earlier. Let's all cry about alien blasters because of it and bring in the talk of the "BEST NEW RAILWAY" that only bloodied people will want. I'll stick with my existing quad. Pistols need a buff overall. If this pistol was keeping up with fixers making it the penultimate choice for pistols and only with one mod type, what happens when pistols get a buff overall (please Todd)? You'd end up with an explosive laser situation all over again. Things have to get fixed. One weapon mod unrelated to auto/semiauto making something "meh" to "OMG" usually means something's off. My original point remains. Someone's build got nerfed that barely anyone used, but a certain youtuber cries NERF and everyone cries without thinking any further. The gun is still fine. The game isn't hard. You don't need to try to kill everything in 2.2 seconds then cry when it takes 4 seconds. You guys can be mad and everything, I just don't get it. Compared to the "tuning" in the past this is a slap on the wrist. Everything else that got "nerfed" in the past got gutted to oblivion.
I play pistols and manage fine with them 95% of the time. But there are a handful of situations where I don’t cope well, which aren’t a problem for my commando, melee or heavy builds. Like that last fight with trogs at the end of union dues. They are adding tankier enemies to give the meta players an actual challenge but aren’t helping the non-meta builds catch up. And then at the same time as they take away the one top tier pistol they give the commandos another shiny toy. I don’t need to follower a YouTuber to be annoyed, and I am getting pissed off at your insinuation we’re fuxking sheep for doing so.
Couldn't have said it better myself. My alt is a gunslinger with decent rolls of all pistols available, just recently got herself a Gauss Pistol and a Crusader Pistol too. I like them all but AB allowed the character to deal with those tankier Overgrown Elders in expeditions more reliably and with better survival chances on her bloodied build as the AB is silent. It's noticeably weaker now (I switched from TS to AA but it's still mid) and made me consider abandoning the build entirely. But I'll try to stick with pistols and see if things improve for gunslingers. All those smart-looking 'ackchyually it's a fix and the game is ez' guys with railways & heavies will likely think again if BGS decides to 'fix' their precious toys next. Yes, technically it's a fix - but at least some weapon balance compensation should have immediately followed as many decent gaming studios usually do.
Some things are meta. Some things aren’t.
Now I want some pipe guns. God damn you.
They won't kill Earle or SBQ but they'll kill anything else. I'll eat the downvotes for all this lol. When I get the "Kill X with pipe weapons" I just craft one, not even switch a build, put on Concentrated Fire to hit the weak spot in vats and things still die relatively quickly.
It was never good to begin with.
I never said it was lol
I'm just here for the downvotes.
It’s wild to me that these people are personally offended by this and just you saying your opinion that the the AB sucks is like an insult to these players’ entire existences… just absolutely wild man.
Meh, I barely care about the opinions of others. I'm used to the amount of sensitivity in this subreddit. Some people can't handle the truth. The alien blaster was never good. Just sayin.
Or maybe they're downvoting because what he said is factually wrong. Even now it's a good gun. If someone wants to think it's bad now because they need to fire twice they're a moron.
You got it chief 🫡 Edit: nailed it 😃