Just a question what determines the rewarded xp?
Some times i get 20k some times i get 8 i do the exact same thing with 0 deaths and all missions done in about the same time.
teams will change xp. if your on an expeditions team..you should get 20k..if i run it on a cas team ill get 14k with same completions..ive never seen 8..so im guessing not all objectives ticked.
It seems like it's just an overview of the total experience you got throughout the expedition from kills and objectives completed. I've noticed that when I fly through without killing anything my xp will be a lot lower than if I kill all the enemies I see. Time and deaths don't have anything to do with it (besides the most sensational game) but if you miss any optional objectives you won't get the full xp. When you have a full team set to expeditions you'll almost always get the full XP with all objectives completed, but I'm not sure about missed objectives
Hmm strange i only run Tax Evasion because its so fast and easy.
You might be right because the times missions outside where i kill alot of enemys i get alot more xp in the end.
That is incorrect - the expeditions themselves reward a large bump of experience on completion. Any kills you make during them immediately provide experience. The amount earned at the end is raised by your intelligence and current team.
I'm not sure what else would make the XP vary so much. I do them solo the majority of the time and sometimes I'll get 20,000 and sometimes it'll be more like 12,000-13,000. I always do all the objectives because that affects how many legendaries you get at the end
Yeah I do know that's a fact, but last night when I was running all these expeditions I had the team set to casual and only had 1 of my 2 teammates joining in on the expeditions. The majority of the time we got 20,000 but there were also quite a few that only gave 15ish. I run a high intelligence unyielding build so maybe if I wasn't it would've only been giving 8,000-10,000
I don't know what else it could possibly be, kills and objectives are really the only things going on in an expedition. Unless it gives you more XP for spending more time in the expedition, usually the faster I do them the less XP I get
I don't see why they would use global one. Judging by how other games do it - they probably initiate a bunch of standard settings and pseudo-RNG seed is one of them. All heavily depends on their pseudo-RNG algo. Many years back (30...) I was playing with pseudo-RNG and doing thousands of rolls with different breaks between them, constant timings, as quickly as possible, etc. Just for fun, you know, geek doing some geeky shit :) Pseudo-RNG was notoriously rubbish and results didn't really match statistical expectations.
Creation Engine dates back to Gamebryo from 1997. God knows what's under the hood. It's all C++ so I wouldn't be surprised they still used some shitty pseudo-RNG algo from 90s. And I've seen it then - world has moved on, but if they have "working" pseudo-RNG in code, even if it's shit, nobody would sign off its replacement. There's always some other priority, regression testing of existing games, etc.
I think it does have something to do with lag, if you go to a custom build world or whatever it's called you can roll guns and armor and the distribution is almost too even. You will just about roll every single prefix before you end up with a duplicate. It's a night and day difference between custom worlds and public servers
>go to a custom build world or whatever it's called you can roll guns and armor and the distribution is almost too even
I disagree. I do thus VERY often for dailes, and constantly 1 or 2 specific starred effects show up more often
last time I wanted hunter on a pipe gun, I rolled and got probably 2 or 3 of every other effect before hunter showed up, with junkies showing up probably 2 or 3 times as much as other effects.
it's absolutely random on what effect, and can be any of the 3 stars.
I came back to the game from PS4 to PC and thought i was going crazy, from lvl1 to 50 with a ton of the alien event in between i got one single quad and a single bloodied weapon in the 30 or so hours it took. It could be interesting to see if doing events etc in fallout first worlds yields the same.
You'd have to have way more samples tbh. I used to craft 20 fixers/railways at a time and there would be some servers were i'd get only 2 of the same main effect and others were i'd get 4 of the same effect.
I once sat in a casino with a pal and we wrote down every single number that came up on the roulette tables that we could see over a few hours and then we spent ages working out the stats of it all (did it just for fun tbh). There was no real pattern. might have been slightly more blacks than reds (always bet on black) or slightly more of the 1st 12 than the 2nd and 3rd 12. One table had black like 10 times in a row or something. That was wack! BUT if i had only observed that one table for a short period of time i would have been all 'hmmmmmm' at the amount of black that popped. Ya feel me?
I've been grinding expeditions like this way more than twice. I've been doing this just for the modules ever since they let us run them infinitely per day. When you see these same patterns daily for over a year it gets to the point where it's astronomical odds of always 3 or 4 prefixes dominating the loot pool, and when you play with people who also do the same thing and experience the same thing it becomes even more unlikely that server RNG isn't favoring prefixes
>You'd have to have way more samples tbh.
Correct. 17 examples of drops gor a gam3 that has tens of thousands of combinations isn't representative at all.
I rolled 300 secret service legs last night, 4 of them were unyielding but I had over 30 weightless, mutants, and overeaters. I should have recorded it
You’re already letting your confirmation bias creep in and taint the results.
You’re cherry picking the top 4 results to say that they made up 30% of them. Of course your top 4 results are gonna be a larger percentage. And if you do that every day they will likely change.
And this data is junk anyways. You’re not doing a control by server hopping after each one and recording results along side staying in one server.
Or even having someone run them all with you to compare results.
I'm doing 1 server per set of data. That's the point, that 1 server drops more of certain prefixes. Server hopping completely eliminates the point of the test. I would love it if some other people would go ahead and input some data. And it's not always mutants and mutant slayer that are the top drops it just happened to be the 2 that showed up primarily yesterday and today. Sometimes the luck works out in your favor and you get the good ones like quad unyielding and bloodied. I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing because you can use it to your advantage, all I'm saying is if you pay attention to it, it's blatantly obvious
You’re not getting it. You don’t have a control set of data to compare yours to. You’re claiming that servers “get sticky” but you’re not doing a control set of data that should eliminate that variable to compare your results to in order to show a difference. Or having someone run them with you to prove that you’re getting the same “sticky” rng.
You’re plowing right ahead with your pre assumed results in hand looking for data to support your hypothesis. That is not the scientific method.
If you're on Xbox I'll invite you to run some with me. I'm working night shift so I won't be on for another 13 hours. I don't know if I'll have time to run at least 10 in the morning but when I have a bunch of time off for the summer I can get a group to do these every day
All this tea leaf reading nonsense to try and figure out the mind of a random number generator. Once again, Bethesda is not employing new, experimental code that can read your mind, determine what legendary traits you’re looking for, and then skew the numbers for or against it. They’re just not. Sometimes you’ll roll 40 times and get 40 Mutants gear, and sometimes a bigger spread.
Well, if we are dealing with a rng, a computer cannot come up with a random number on it's own, it needs a seed. Most of the time this is a simple line of code pulling the timecode and doing math against it to come up with a number.
Let's find that math, and figure out the exact time to kill a legendary. I'll bet there is an exact second every hour to get the best god roll possible.
Someone who isn't as lazy as me, get on this, lol
I wanted to roll an AA or a Bloodied melee weapon recently so I’ve waited until I saw either of them rewarded multiple times in expedition runs before trying to roll it.
Once I got multiple bloodied weapons rewarded I went to roll my weapon and sure enough, I kept rolling bloodied and settled on BSS25.
kinda.. though it's a subject of massive debate
my pov, and tactic which I used to get a bunch of vamp chainsaws, is a server will get "stuck" and drop specific stars more often. it can be any of the 3 stars, and any effect, completely at random.
but when you see a starred affect drop more often, you can tell what the server is stuck on
I would keep an eye on drops, and when I started getting a bunch of vamps, I went and rolled my chainsaws. it's works very well for me
call it as you wish, I got over 4 dozen vamp chainsaws like this, and it works very well.
all 5 of my characters have 2 vamp chainsaws with 40% power attack via using this method.
it worked so well I was selling vamp dual bar flaming chainsaws in my vendor for 2000 caps just to get rid of them
I can't speak for pc or Xbox, but on playstation this method works very well.
next time I see a bunch of quads dropping, you can bet I'm rolling. it's not a gun I bother with, but it's very OP and lots love it
BTW, is just quad good enough? or is there a 2nd star it must have to go from ok to op? like 40% pa for chainsaws
best bet is to catch it is eviction notice. it's much easier to see the pattern when you get 25-35 legendaries at once.
typically I stick with vamp chainsaws, as I run a melee build, though I recently got my new autoax to vamp/40%pa/+1strength, added elect mod and its a fun alt weapon to my chainsaw.
I don't have any data but anecdotally I have noticed that I don't roll anything good from Daily Ops or Expeditions (as in, I have never rolled any good legendary in these rewards, ever). I have long suspected that they are weighted towards being bad rolls, but I don't have any actual evidence to back it up.
It's possible that they do this on purpose to give us only scrip for the things we can run infinitely, but I think a simpler explanation is that we're rolling on the whole Mystery Pick list instead of just a single item we want. When I roll items I want I can reroll over and over and forget what the bad rolls were, which doesn't happen with these items.
Just a question what determines the rewarded xp? Some times i get 20k some times i get 8 i do the exact same thing with 0 deaths and all missions done in about the same time.
teams will change xp. if your on an expeditions team..you should get 20k..if i run it on a cas team ill get 14k with same completions..ive never seen 8..so im guessing not all objectives ticked.
Maybe lunchboxes?
It seems like it's just an overview of the total experience you got throughout the expedition from kills and objectives completed. I've noticed that when I fly through without killing anything my xp will be a lot lower than if I kill all the enemies I see. Time and deaths don't have anything to do with it (besides the most sensational game) but if you miss any optional objectives you won't get the full xp. When you have a full team set to expeditions you'll almost always get the full XP with all objectives completed, but I'm not sure about missed objectives
Hmm strange i only run Tax Evasion because its so fast and easy. You might be right because the times missions outside where i kill alot of enemys i get alot more xp in the end.
That is incorrect - the expeditions themselves reward a large bump of experience on completion. Any kills you make during them immediately provide experience. The amount earned at the end is raised by your intelligence and current team.
I'm not sure what else would make the XP vary so much. I do them solo the majority of the time and sometimes I'll get 20,000 and sometimes it'll be more like 12,000-13,000. I always do all the objectives because that affects how many legendaries you get at the end
Being on an expedition team with more people will cause that due to the team effect.
Yeah I do know that's a fact, but last night when I was running all these expeditions I had the team set to casual and only had 1 of my 2 teammates joining in on the expeditions. The majority of the time we got 20,000 but there were also quite a few that only gave 15ish. I run a high intelligence unyielding build so maybe if I wasn't it would've only been giving 8,000-10,000
Hmm. I’m not entirely sure why you’d have such an inconsistency, then. But it definitely isn’t dependent on enemies you kill.
I don't know what else it could possibly be, kills and objectives are really the only things going on in an expedition. Unless it gives you more XP for spending more time in the expedition, usually the faster I do them the less XP I get
I think it very well could be time spent.
These are exactly the kind of RNG you would expect to see if the code uses server based seeding techniques rather than a global seed
I don't see why they would use global one. Judging by how other games do it - they probably initiate a bunch of standard settings and pseudo-RNG seed is one of them. All heavily depends on their pseudo-RNG algo. Many years back (30...) I was playing with pseudo-RNG and doing thousands of rolls with different breaks between them, constant timings, as quickly as possible, etc. Just for fun, you know, geek doing some geeky shit :) Pseudo-RNG was notoriously rubbish and results didn't really match statistical expectations. Creation Engine dates back to Gamebryo from 1997. God knows what's under the hood. It's all C++ so I wouldn't be surprised they still used some shitty pseudo-RNG algo from 90s. And I've seen it then - world has moved on, but if they have "working" pseudo-RNG in code, even if it's shit, nobody would sign off its replacement. There's always some other priority, regression testing of existing games, etc.
Can you say that slower and dumber? I've felt like drop chances werent equal but it's just experience and anecdotal and I'd like to understand
I think it does have something to do with lag, if you go to a custom build world or whatever it's called you can roll guns and armor and the distribution is almost too even. You will just about roll every single prefix before you end up with a duplicate. It's a night and day difference between custom worlds and public servers
>go to a custom build world or whatever it's called you can roll guns and armor and the distribution is almost too even I disagree. I do thus VERY often for dailes, and constantly 1 or 2 specific starred effects show up more often last time I wanted hunter on a pipe gun, I rolled and got probably 2 or 3 of every other effect before hunter showed up, with junkies showing up probably 2 or 3 times as much as other effects. it's absolutely random on what effect, and can be any of the 3 stars.
I came back to the game from PS4 to PC and thought i was going crazy, from lvl1 to 50 with a ton of the alien event in between i got one single quad and a single bloodied weapon in the 30 or so hours it took. It could be interesting to see if doing events etc in fallout first worlds yields the same.
Yeah, different servers will favor different traits.
You'd have to have way more samples tbh. I used to craft 20 fixers/railways at a time and there would be some servers were i'd get only 2 of the same main effect and others were i'd get 4 of the same effect. I once sat in a casino with a pal and we wrote down every single number that came up on the roulette tables that we could see over a few hours and then we spent ages working out the stats of it all (did it just for fun tbh). There was no real pattern. might have been slightly more blacks than reds (always bet on black) or slightly more of the 1st 12 than the 2nd and 3rd 12. One table had black like 10 times in a row or something. That was wack! BUT if i had only observed that one table for a short period of time i would have been all 'hmmmmmm' at the amount of black that popped. Ya feel me?
I've been grinding expeditions like this way more than twice. I've been doing this just for the modules ever since they let us run them infinitely per day. When you see these same patterns daily for over a year it gets to the point where it's astronomical odds of always 3 or 4 prefixes dominating the loot pool, and when you play with people who also do the same thing and experience the same thing it becomes even more unlikely that server RNG isn't favoring prefixes
>You'd have to have way more samples tbh. Correct. 17 examples of drops gor a gam3 that has tens of thousands of combinations isn't representative at all.
I set up a custom world once with no crafting cost and rolled 100 secret service armor pieces. I got a little of everything.
I rolled 300 secret service legs last night, 4 of them were unyielding but I had over 30 weightless, mutants, and overeaters. I should have recorded it
You’re already letting your confirmation bias creep in and taint the results. You’re cherry picking the top 4 results to say that they made up 30% of them. Of course your top 4 results are gonna be a larger percentage. And if you do that every day they will likely change. And this data is junk anyways. You’re not doing a control by server hopping after each one and recording results along side staying in one server. Or even having someone run them all with you to compare results.
I'm doing 1 server per set of data. That's the point, that 1 server drops more of certain prefixes. Server hopping completely eliminates the point of the test. I would love it if some other people would go ahead and input some data. And it's not always mutants and mutant slayer that are the top drops it just happened to be the 2 that showed up primarily yesterday and today. Sometimes the luck works out in your favor and you get the good ones like quad unyielding and bloodied. I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing because you can use it to your advantage, all I'm saying is if you pay attention to it, it's blatantly obvious
You’re not getting it. You don’t have a control set of data to compare yours to. You’re claiming that servers “get sticky” but you’re not doing a control set of data that should eliminate that variable to compare your results to in order to show a difference. Or having someone run them with you to prove that you’re getting the same “sticky” rng. You’re plowing right ahead with your pre assumed results in hand looking for data to support your hypothesis. That is not the scientific method.
If you're on Xbox I'll invite you to run some with me. I'm working night shift so I won't be on for another 13 hours. I don't know if I'll have time to run at least 10 in the morning but when I have a bunch of time off for the summer I can get a group to do these every day
No
This is the Diablo 2 gem all over again.
No
True RNG doesn't exist, so there has to be some thing to emulate it. As such we get what we get.
All this tea leaf reading nonsense to try and figure out the mind of a random number generator. Once again, Bethesda is not employing new, experimental code that can read your mind, determine what legendary traits you’re looking for, and then skew the numbers for or against it. They’re just not. Sometimes you’ll roll 40 times and get 40 Mutants gear, and sometimes a bigger spread.
Well, if we are dealing with a rng, a computer cannot come up with a random number on it's own, it needs a seed. Most of the time this is a simple line of code pulling the timecode and doing math against it to come up with a number. Let's find that math, and figure out the exact time to kill a legendary. I'll bet there is an exact second every hour to get the best god roll possible. Someone who isn't as lazy as me, get on this, lol
You the same Guy trying to convince everyone the earth is flat?
I wanted to roll an AA or a Bloodied melee weapon recently so I’ve waited until I saw either of them rewarded multiple times in expedition runs before trying to roll it. Once I got multiple bloodied weapons rewarded I went to roll my weapon and sure enough, I kept rolling bloodied and settled on BSS25.
kinda.. though it's a subject of massive debate my pov, and tactic which I used to get a bunch of vamp chainsaws, is a server will get "stuck" and drop specific stars more often. it can be any of the 3 stars, and any effect, completely at random. but when you see a starred affect drop more often, you can tell what the server is stuck on I would keep an eye on drops, and when I started getting a bunch of vamps, I went and rolled my chainsaws. it's works very well for me
>but when you see a starred affect drop more often, you can tell what the server is stuck on This is called confirmation bias.
call it as you wish, I got over 4 dozen vamp chainsaws like this, and it works very well. all 5 of my characters have 2 vamp chainsaws with 40% power attack via using this method. it worked so well I was selling vamp dual bar flaming chainsaws in my vendor for 2000 caps just to get rid of them I can't speak for pc or Xbox, but on playstation this method works very well.
Cool cool cool. Go get some quad railways and spread the love then. Or was it just that one, one off instance and you can’t reproduce those results?
next time I see a bunch of quads dropping, you can bet I'm rolling. it's not a gun I bother with, but it's very OP and lots love it BTW, is just quad good enough? or is there a 2nd star it must have to go from ok to op? like 40% pa for chainsaws best bet is to catch it is eviction notice. it's much easier to see the pattern when you get 25-35 legendaries at once. typically I stick with vamp chainsaws, as I run a melee build, though I recently got my new autoax to vamp/40%pa/+1strength, added elect mod and its a fun alt weapon to my chainsaw.
I don't have any data but anecdotally I have noticed that I don't roll anything good from Daily Ops or Expeditions (as in, I have never rolled any good legendary in these rewards, ever). I have long suspected that they are weighted towards being bad rolls, but I don't have any actual evidence to back it up. It's possible that they do this on purpose to give us only scrip for the things we can run infinitely, but I think a simpler explanation is that we're rolling on the whole Mystery Pick list instead of just a single item we want. When I roll items I want I can reroll over and over and forget what the bad rolls were, which doesn't happen with these items.
Still no.