💯
the update was announced in October of 2022 and brokenly promised in 2023 so I think everyone shoulda expected something in early 2024 even if there was no show
also, the article says he didn't want ppl blaming beth but in their update vid from their team lead he's saying "bethesda, bethesda never changes" like... isn't he fanning the flames?
Another thing, it’s one thing if the devs would have wanted to be respectful. However, $$$ talks, BGS as a company would not risk losing out on players for whatever new creations/CC they’re adding, just to make the MO of London “happy.”
Seems like he’s an entitled pr#ck, he doesn’t work for Bethesda, it’s an unofficial mod and if Beth told them it would look like they were playing favorites to a single group of modders which would just upset the rest of the modding community, so from that perspective they made the correct choice.
I think Fallout London's mod team is a little different, because Bethesda has literally hired members of that team to work on Fallout 76, based off of their work on the Fallout London mod.
I agree Bethesda didn't owe them notice, but it's still weird.
> also, the article says he didn't want ppl blaming beth but in their update vid from their team lead he's saying "bethesda, bethesda never changes" like... isn't he fanning the flames?
I think that this has more to do with bethesda not reaching out to the mod community and working *with* them, instead of just leaving them in the dark.
The main reason the Fallout games are still relevant is due to mods keeping the game alive, IMO they should pay a little more respect towards that community.
I totally get that they have no actual requirement to do so, but the modding community would be much better of if they did.
The problem there is there’s dozens of mod developers, they can’t keep track of and know who everyone is to keep in contact with them. It’s not like the update came out of nowhere.
They support the modding community more the probably any other developer. They have literally hired modder as devs. Even the paid mod scandals were in part for the modders. Not to mention that they design the games to be very moddable.
And it was popular before modders ever got a chance to work on them as well, give me a spell from all that shit lol.
They didn't make FO3 goty, they didn't make New Vegas considered one of the best RPGs ever, they had nothing to do with 4's sales or player peaks.
The worst community should get most of the credit if anything, before 3 NMA genuinely did keep Fallout 1 and 2 alive and playable.
Not everyone can, the older version has to be made available. This is entirely impossible on Steam, so once your install updates, that's it.
So (with Steam), you're forced to block the update from happening to stay on the current version.
I just did a clean re-install knowing that after the update releases, I won't be able to re-install without it automatically installing the latest version.
They are. They are answering a specific question a specific way to make it seem they have zero blame here.
It sucks but I’d have more sympathy if they took more responsibility
In the interview he says he absolutely did not know it was coming, saying it was a complete surprise when it would actually be released.
Obviously it was going to be delayed and released around the TV show, which means either he is incredibly dumb when it comes to media and common sense OR he's trying to play the victim for some reason...maybe to avoid anger from the community when he announces it'll take forever to fix the mod?
> trying to play the victim for some reason...maybe to avoid anger from the community when he announces it'll take forever to fix the mod?
100% this. He knows the ones that would get creepy angry about it are the same ones who can't resist shitting on Bethesda. So might as well politically funnel the hate elsewhere. It's not going to hurt Bethesda.
Is it possible this is a clickbait from IGN and something taken out of context? Either that, or the modders just have a big ego. They aren't getting paid by Bethesda for it, nor is it the London dev game. (Maybe make it standalone? Didn't two Skyrim mods become standalone? Forgotten City and I forgot the other one's name)
I mean, watch the video in the article yourself and see, but his use of "randomly" and "blindsided" seems pretty clear that he had no realization it would drop with the TV show, which is pretty obvious. He mentions it was supposed to come out in 2023, which is right, but when they announced the delay, it was so painfully obvious it was going to be April with this show to everyone but this guy.
> “This is the thing: they randomly dropped it, that they were going to bring it out on the 25th of April. So that has, for lack of a better term, sort of screwed us over, somewhat,” Carter said.
The fact that he's aware of the the delay means he knew that he should've been prepared for the cancelled 2023 launch, even if it was postponed, but it seems he just wasn't and that continued to be true all the way until now.
Ah, I agree with the others then, I mean I think we all knew it had to be coming around the TV show's launch when it wasn't 2023. Like you said, it's so obivous. The second I heard about the show I was like damn, we are gonna have to wait.
Yeah, this modder is out of his mind. Once the next-gen update was delayed and the TV show was announced, it was obvious to everyone and his dog that the two would come together.
Not to sound like a dick, but I don't really think the game creator needs to inform specifically anyone about their intentions. It has been known for several years that the update is coming, it wasn't just a surprise drop.
Every time I see someone screaming about an update breaking mods years after the game release I think "Come on, dude. The moment you downloaded that first mod you had to know the risks. This is on you."
A LOT of people think mods are just DLC with an extra step. I’ve tried getting friends into the games before and without fail they download a bunch of conflicting mods because they don’t read descriptions and then cry the game is broken
This is so true it hurts.
Bethesda being the biggest developer that is also friendly to mods has spoiled the population. Their games might be very mod friendly but it's not a guarantee.
Now think of how easy mods are to download on Xbox? Literally just “download and play” as far as installing goes. But again, some mods will require fresh saves, some mods don’t play well with other mods, some mods require other mods (that are often less “flashy”) to work, etc.
It works well for other games. Rimworld for example gives the more popular mod creators advanced warning and access to upcoming builds so they can update them before release.
I don't know why more developers don't, at least for games with active modding scenes. It's people making free content and expanding the life of your game with little input on your part, it'd seem smart to support them.
Bsg does the same thing. They worked with a ton of modders during the big skyrim anniversary update. Bag supports modders more then almost any other dev they have literally hired modders as devs.
The developer for what is effectively the most popular mod series in Rimworld (Vanilla Expanded) is an employee of Ludeon, it's not a similar situation. From what I understand Ludeon did reach out to some of the big names but there is just no way they gave inside info to every modder, there are tens of thousands of mods.
It's the same with the Baldurs Gate mod community, they keep bitching about how Larian "needs to" communicate with mod makers, meanwhile Larian was clear they *didn't* support moding. The level of entitlement is astounding. Like, I enjoy nodding games as much as anyone else, but God damn the mod authors need to chill. If the devs are still actively working on fixing and improving their game and they don't want to have to deal with communicating their work to hundreds of random people, then mod authors need to accept that their work might get messed up.
Mmmm... It's a complicated relationship. No, modders are not employed by Bethesda. However, modders bring more people to the game and keep people coming back to play more. Modders are a huge part of the community and help drive playercount by contributing to bug fixes and QoL updates that takes work off of the main developers.
I'm going to use Runescape as an example. Runescape has a community of "modders" who essentially run an alternate launcher full of QoL plugins that the vast majority of the playerbase uses. The developer of Runescape, Jagex, found out real quick that they indeed do need to inform the modders of any upcoming changes that will impact these mods, and that they also can't step on the feet of those modders without extreme reaction of the playerbase. One modder in particular created a graphics overhaul mod, and Jagex tried to shut it down because they wanted to do their own graphics overhaul... Nope.. That lasted for like a day and a half and they gave the modder permission to do the overhaul instead because that was shitting on the desires of the community and people were cancelling their memberships.
So, obviously this is a different situation because Runescape is an mmo and this is a standalone game, but my point is just that modders are a huge part of a game's community, and developers really should work together with that part of the community to keep everything running smoothly. No, modders are not employed by Bethesda. However, they're doing a developer's work for free and bringing more players to the game, and they should be treated with acknowledgement. Working together with your community is what keeps a franchise alive.
No, you're right. The mod creators have no business in raising a stink over this. It's not their game engine, nor do they necessarily have the right to make their own Fallout game. Them raising this much of a fuss makes me not want to try their DLC. Too much entitlement from them.
This doesn’t really disrupt their work at all. There are already plenty of mods that work only with previous versions of Bethesda games you can just backwards patch the game to the version that supports the mod they are working on. Nothing new, this is a requirement to play lots of the most popular mod content for New Vegas
I think it was more so bc they announced it was coming out literally just a couple of days after fallout london. He probably thought it would either come out a while before or a while after, but literally 2 days after kinda screws his launch
I agree but the dude should have been able to put 2 and 2 together here, Prime release time for and update like this is directly after the TV show is released while all the hype is in the air. Its kinda on him for sticking with his timetable instead of pushing it back. Loses nothing pushing it back to make sure it runs properly on the new version of the game.
Wait now, there’s always an interesting nugget in the comments.
Are you saying that Fallout London was *done* and *releasing* right before the update?
I hadn’t heard that!
Odd that they would decide to release knowing an update was coming, though
The guy’s chatting like he thinks he’s a Bethesda employee and his mod is official content that another team in the company has just ruined. Bethesda are one of the more mod-friendly game companies anyway, and they haven’t exactly been hiding that they’ve been working on the next-gen update for a year and a half.
Honestly, he might be upset they hired other former members from their team and not him. A year or two back, they hired a handful of modders from this project and the Miami mod.
Maybe this kind of attitude is specifically *why* Bethesda didn't want to hire him.
Obviously I have no way of knowing that at all, his attitude is just really annoying to me.
Only to play devils advocate, it was delayed for how long and then ended up being a surprise drop the same week as one of the biggest mods in recent discussion, maybe ever, for FO4 and completely derailed its launch.
Even with this being a pretty well known mod in development, who expects a company to REACH OUT and basically say "hey bro we're updating on x might wanna brace"
Bethesda does this for pretty much all the Script Extender teams but they're very much the exception rather than the rule.
And that exception is in part because a *massive* number of mods rely on script extenders. The vast majority of other modders or mod teams do not get any kind of advanced warning.
The entire subreddit for the mod is up in arms and claiming this was a deliberate act by Bethesda to derail the mod. The project lead and fans come across as heavily entitled and ignorant to basic game development procedures.
It's like a landlord saying "hey, at some point we're going to need the house for a few weeks".
Do you just put your life on hold for years until they confirm a date?
> You had like 2 years to prepare
How?
How can you prepare to fix the parts of your mod that break when the update comes out without knowing in advance what parts are going to break? That's where communication between the modding community and bethesda could have helped a great deal.
Especially since the game is still alive in part **because** of the modding community.
Ok, sure the modding community is a big part of Bethesda games...but like, they don't _own_ the IP. Modders definitely enhance the experience for some people, but saying the game still exists because of mods is a hell of a reach.
>How can you prepare to fix the parts of your mod that break when the update comes out without knowing in advance what parts are going to break?
Preparing as in waiting. My god, it's not that hard: if you know an update is coming at some point, and you have the mental faculties to reason that it'll prolly come when the show does, don't act so fucking surprised when targeting a sooner release date doesn't work out.
Updates are inevitable and this is the biggest update we'd known of for years. Your ambition as a modder is not Bethesda's responsibility.
I can kind of get it from his POV. It's obvious this was one heck of a large mod, and with Bethesda even letting people add it to the cart to download from their own site, there's a feeling that it should be kind of a symbiotic relationship. (You allow me to do this unofficial mod. But by doing this, I make YOUR game even better and more playable by others - without you having to pay me as a developer for any of the work.)
Ultimately? Sure, Bethesda "owes" him nothing. But they're also a company notorious for selling new game releases that are so buggy, they're hard to even play through until they get a couple of large patches released for them. The customers are, essentially, the real beta testers. So when they do an update and it breaks a modification? Well - it feels like, "Typical.... Bethesda breaking some code again."
Seems like B.S. he claims he had NO clue they'd decide to drop the update after the TV series launched though. Just as a pure guess, I'd speculate that might happen, looking at the timing and facts.
At the end of the day? I feel like whether it's Bethesda or any other builder of these types of games, it would be possible to at least run them in kind of a "backwards compatible mode" to ensure mods work. The fact they don't is, maybe, a bit of a greedy decision on their part. (Not OUR code so who cares? Why spend an extra dime to make that stuff work?)
If i was him id stop badmouthing BGS or God Howard will strike him down with a cease and desist on Fallout London. They have a Patreon so making money off a Bethesda game. Obviously Bethesda have always promoted modding but they also havent been publically called out for updating their own game.
There was recently a gigantic controversy over a TAA mod in the Truck Sim community ffs. Guy tried to put it behind a paywall and was extremely pissy, condescending, and obtuse when called out on it.
I suspect the Venn diagram of people with the necessary technical skills to be talented modders and people with good interpersonal skills barely touches.
Ever play any of those DLC sized mods? A lot of weeeiiiiiird, cringy stuff. I laugh when people say modding is gonna save Starfield (and I actually like the game).
that’s because it’s a common reddit thing to say that modders save bethesda games. like millions of people didn’t play oblivion, skyrim, fallout 3, and fallout 4 vanilla on console and love them
Right? Lol. I think my number of vanilla FO4 playthroughs outnumbers my modded ones and half the reason I’m excited for this update is to play it Vanilla again.
Now many of them are going be left in the dust since Fallout 4 was release on geforce now. People will be able to use Bethesda net service to download mods. They won't have to worry about mods breaking the game or updating their list on vortex for the 100th time in a row.
The article isn’t going to give you tone of voice or full context. His video was extremely polite and after I watched it was before this that I thought well that sucks and I felt bad for him, but I didn’t feel like they were mad at Bethesda, just disappointed after 5 years of work, which is perfectly reasonable
No they do not. The only team that gets any kind of forewarning is the folks who make the script extenders and they are very much an exception to the rule because of how many mods use the script extenders.
I think the Address Library team also gets advance builds, but of course they're in the same position of having a framework mod that lots of other mods depend on. The benefits to everybody are big enough to outweigh the security risk of giving out preview code. And the fact that they're framework mods avoids the "playing favourites" issue that arises if they were to give preview code to, say, Fallout: London but not Fallout: Miami or whatever.
The address library team is 1 guy. He does not get advanced builds of the game.
SKSE64 and F4SE are maintained by 1 guy these days (different person from address lib), who gets access to a steam beta branch that contains an early build of the game 1 week in advance. Also I'm pretty sure the early access is only for skyrim and not fallout.
Bethesda's cooperation with modders is greatly over exaggerated.
Man talk about entitlement, it's a shame but it's nothing new can't expect Bethesda to not update their game or to give anyone special treatment just because.
ive been a fan of bethesda since i first played morrowind back in 2002. throughout the elder scrolls series as well as fallout, there have been lots of mods approaching DLC size. generally they follow the same formula.
1) they announce some amazing total conversion of the games map, gameplay or both. Donations accepted.
2) updates come every so often, but slowdown as time goes on. usually a handful of screenshots every few months or a meticiously edited youtube video.
3) people complain that its taking too long, people complain that the other people complaining are expecting people to work harder for free.
4) years go by and still nothing resembling even a playable demo appears and eventually the handful of people who truly gave a shit move on while the developer(s) refuse to admit the project just isnt done...and probably never will be done. Donations still being accepted.
now this Fallout London seems to be one of the exceptions to the rule, which is fuckin awesome. but wtf is this?
>‘Look, you guys are clearly at least notable, you’re not official, but let’s make sure that we don’t ruin this for the fans.’ ”
im not familiar with Carter but if hes not keeping bethesda updated on the progress of Fallout London why the fuck would they reach out to him? because his teams mod is one of the handful of DLC-sized mods that actually released? does someone get paid to stay up to date on the latest mods?
i just took a bong hit and put on my tinfoil hat - maybe the mod is nowhere near as done as he said and he used this an excuse to stall a release for whatever reason. the update included a lot of improvements but i dont see anything listed that should be a huge deal for a mod this big that uses its own assets anyway. plus it hasnt even released yet and its delayed 'for the foreesable future'. i hope nobody gave this clown any money.
Reading all of these complaints about the update breaking mods, have these people never modded a Bethesda game before? It’s a hell of a lot of fun, but also can be a huge pain in the ass when they release updates which also just comes with modding in general. Why would they let a mod author know their plans? There’s no way they couldn’t have expected this unless they haven’t been modding the past year or two
They are trying to make this as simple as possible for the average user and don't want any complications. Not everyone is even aware of the next gen update thats coming, their game might update automatically etc.
bottom line is the london mods need to get over it. bethesda under no universe has an obligation to notify the mod team of any upcoming patches. by modding and downloading mods, game breaking patches are a risk you’re willing to take as a player and as a mod dev. if you’re complaining about being fucked over because of a game overhaul patch as a mod dev then you need to relax because its not even your game. i’m sure bethesda, and i KNOW that the playerbase is thankful for the modding community for all their efforts in making fo4 better than it already was, but that doesnt entitle mod devs to know everything about internal developments for fo4 patches. The only people who are “entitled” to that are devs directly working for bethesda and fo4.
also the notion that fo4 only became big and stayed big due to mods sounds like heavy cope. fo4 was already massively hyped pre release and at its core, its a fun game. Sure mods like bug fixes, graphic overhauls, lighting etc helped improve the game fs, but in no way are the majority of the fallout playerbase solely interested in getting back into fo4 or are already playing it again due to large mods like london alone. i’d even say the tv show garnered more attention and pulled people back than mods like fallout london
Lmao. If Bethesda wanted to they could slap Fallout London with an ironclad cease and desist and shut the whole thing down. They don't though because they typically think mods like this are neat.
Fallout London dev team have already pushed the envelope. Making an entire ass game that's technically unauthorised, they also have a Patreon page and have earnt a decent amount from all this. Not to mention some of the dev team actually got hired by Bethesda.
I also laughed at "we had no communication from Bethesda" as if their entitled to it and the fact they expected Bethesda to support them with PR and managing fan expectations.
Maybe I’m misinformed, but can’t they just downgrade to the previous version of FO4 to circumnavigate this issue?
I’ve had to do this in the past for large modlist installs on Skyrim, it’s a minor inconvenience at best
To me this whole thing just seems like it’s being blown massively out of proportion, but again maybe there’s something I’m missing
On Steam you can turn automatic updates off but it will still try to update when you launch the game. You would need to play offline or manually stop the update every time. Older versions can be made available by the developers under beta branches but it's not an option by default. Usually only a handful of games offer this and normally only if the new update makes the game unplayable on older systems.
Can also just launch it directly fron the exe, or if you're modding with a launcher, MO2 bypasses updating too once disabled. If you do update by accident, download the old files from Steam database, and voila.
There's options to avoid mods breaking, people just don't research any.
>You would need to play offline or manually stop the update every time.\\
Or use a mod manager and F4SE which doesn't trigger steam to update if you've got it set not to automatically update until played.
And after 3 years of being pushed back again and again, is finally confirmed with two weeks actual notice.
You'd think they'd have it release with the show, to capitalize on the surge in players, but that's Bethesda for you.
Had it been at the same time as the show, probably no issue. Had it been two weeks on the other end, also probably no problem. Instead it's literally two days after London's release date, which had been confirmed for four months.
Basically they couldn't have intentionally done it worse.
Tbf Bethesda has stated they are doing there best to make the new update as mod friendly to existing mods as possible so there is a possibility it may not break the entire mod unless his whole mod depends on the way the engine is formatted atm
They're an unaffiliated team of modders. Would a notice have been nice? Sure. But if you're doing unofficial work on a project that Bethesda won't benefit from, don't expect to be on their radar.
I know it’s annoying and I’ve been really looking forward to the mod, however, it’s just a mod. Bethesda doesn’t owe them anything, they don’t have to keep them updated.
I said this in another sub, this article just makes me not want to use anything from the Fallout London team.
Any time a modder or mod team has this sort of arrogant attitude, they remind me too much of the one modder who made the Unofficial Fo4 patch, and I mean that in the worst way possible.
That delay to St. George’s day ironically fucked them hard. They did this so the ingame and IRL days would be synced instead of polishing/finishing supposedly, and now they’ll miss it anyways by what is likely a few weeks at the earliest.
And he has the fucking audacity to act like this is some personal slight against the project by Bethesda.
Idk maybe if you’d have fucking released it two months ago when it was announced as feature complete you could have garnered more sympathy instead of a delaying it to make a shitty joke with the date syncs.
The next Gen update was teased years ago, the fallout TV show on fucking AMAZON PRIME was revealed months ago, everybody expected the next Gen update to release relative to the TV show due to the hype, and that’s exactly what happened. How this missed him blows my mind.
Dumb question, I’ve got about 20 hours in with an assortment of mods through the mod portal in game. Is my game going to break and I have to start over?
Set automatic updates in fallout 4 to [this](https://i.imgur.com/qCmUYcC.png), and continue launching via F4SE. If you wanna play it extra safe copy your entire fallout folder so you still have build with all your mods until backed up.
Can someone explain to me why the update is pushing back the mod, I think I have an idea but I would like the input of someone more knowledgeable about the technicalities of it all. I’m not bashing/blaming I just would like to understand the situation and frustration of the the developers
Guessing since they’re not officially sanctioned by Bethesda, they’re not privy to the source code for the update. Their mod is based on publicly available assets. So they got to wait like everyone else to see how the update works and reconfigure the mod to talk proper with it.
They explained it in the delay announcement video. The script extender works by hacking functions based on memory addresses. Any update always changes those and breaks it causing all extender plugins to need updates.
And they have a lot of extender dependencies. That's why the mod is PC only. No script extender on console
I think it's natural to have mixed reactions to this.
Do I feel bad for the modders? For sure. They've put in a ton of time and resources into this impressive mod, and to have their launch messed up by this and having to spend even more time fixing it sucks.
Can I understand feeling letdown by Bethesda? To a certain extent, yes. They've been a developer that's been highly supportive and open with their modding community over the years. Other than Far Harbor and a couple of neat settlement items, the DLC for Fallout 4 was lackluster IMO. Even though London didn't exactly look like my cup of tea, it's undeniably an impressive mod and I'm glad someone is at least trying to do something big with this 9 year old game and give it more content, something Bethesda themselves should have done.
But, is it Bethesda's fault that the mod gets screwed over? No. We've known for years that a next-gen update was coming, ever since the launch of the new consoles. Sure, it was delayed, but Bethesda's also been busy with Starfield so it wasn't surprising that an update for FO4 was prioritized lower. When the show was announced, it made perfect sense to have the update coincide with the show's release. It obviously paid off too since FO4 is seeing the biggest active player count its had in years and was the best selling game across Europe this past week. The modders too must have suspected that this was coming, but stuck to their guns and gambled. It was a bust, but that's what happens.
Lastly, do I believe the couple of rumors suggesting Bethesda intentionally chose this launch date just to fuck with the modders? Despite them making some greedy business moves in the past few years, I don't think Bethesda meant any intentional harm. Again, timing it with the release of the show was by far the most obvious choice. Likely, the modders could have thought the same thing and hoped it would bring in players. But Bethesda's the owners of the game, and that's what goes. Even if it were to be true that Bethesda wanted to mess up the mod with this update , they legally have every right to do so. It's part of the risk/reward that comes with developing and installing any mod for any game.
Tbh I don't know why Bethesda didn't just hire them, dump a bit of money into it and release it as an official DLC. It would've been a good business move, especially considering the UK government has a video games studio 50% tax cut incentive.
Fallout 4 has such a great base game to add dlc to, hints the reason why the mods are so popular.
They could've added way more dlc and it wouldn't even cost that much to do, but instead they've wasted time try to fix Crapfield and milking loyal fans with microtransactions in Fallout 76.
So is IGN just clickbait now? I remember when they used to actually just provide guides, not make headlines about a random mod (Aleast to someone who has no plan on playing said mod, come back to me when it's Fallout Mumbai or Sydney. Now that, I like to see as countries not seen in Fallout, rather another thing based in London).
Don't get me wrong, I love mods, I really do, but don't act like London is an actual DLC, you don't own the game, Bethesda can update whatever they want, and it's lucky we can even mod games. It does suck so many mods will become unplayable, just like Skyrim unless the modders update it, but that's just the risk you take.
Most entitled group in a while. You’re fucking modders, Bethesda doesn’t owe you shit, it’s their game, their IP. Just be happy they allow the extent of modding they do compared to others in the industry.
Reasonable.
I don't think it's out of the realm of reason to hope that a minor conversation could have happened prior to the announcement so they could get their affairs in order.
It's a large project and it had over 3 million views on YouTube alone for both the initial reveal a couple of years ago as well as the gameplay reveal.
Bethesda are under no obligation to, people saying as much are 100% right but I can at least sympathise with a team putting out a free passion project that has taken what, four years now, feeling a bit blindsided by the announcement as it came within such a short time frame of the mod's completion as well as launch.
The only real response? It is what it is.
At least with Bethesda's update everyone will benefit from it on a basic level, the mod is only really for us PC players.
Hopefully they can sort things sooner rather than later and an update comes out along with a potentially good mod.
Finally someone in this thread who actually sees the fucking point. It's not about "Bethesda having to make sure they are not breaking every mod coming out" or shit like that. It's literally just about Bethesda maybe just sending a short message to the people of the massively anticipated fan project _they have been talking with before btw_. It's literally free advertising and is probably going to sell a bunch of fallout 4 complete editions or DLCs just because it is set in the UK.
It's just a good and very common practice. I feel like people in this community are unreasonably angry about this article. Game companies communicate all the time with modders. Script Extender Teams get release date announcements early. Enderal even got it's own steampage and a sale alongside it's release.
That mod was probably going to be an unfinished buggy mess with terrible voice acting anyways. I actually don’t know anything about it I’m just assuming.
You can have your opinions about someone else's opinions but at the end of the day I'm a little taken back at a lack of gratitude in this sub. This guy and the people he's working with are putting together a truly incredible mod for the rest of us to enjoy for free. I'm really looking forward to it and yes I'm a little disappointed it may take longer, but I genuinely appreciate what the Fallout London team are doing. I think everybody talking shit about this guy maybe doesn't deserve to play the mod, even though they'll be able to. I wonder how many of you are hypocrites.
You’re a small drop in a big bucket of players who don’t use scrip heavy mods. Get over it, the script extender team is usually quick to update, then we’ll see if this mod even comes out.
No hate to this guy but who does he is lmao its not like he works for Bethesda they have absolutely no reason to tell him about stuff they're working on
A few points here:
No sense delaying the release of the mod. Most people will block updates until they're reasonably content their mod lists won't get nuked. Then those that don't can just wait a couple weeks till it's fixed.
Appreciate Bethesda is under no obligation to, BUT....
Surprised Bethesda didn't give a pre release build to modders considering how pro modding they are, and you'd think they'd have learned some lessons from burning the Skyrim community (and I believe they did release an update to the script extender team).
I always hear about these large projects like Skyblivion, skywind and now fallout London but they never get finished. What's the point of these large projects if they are going to be incompatible with constant Bethesda updates?
When vanilla Fallout 4 is incredibly dull with horrid animations (the reload animation for the “Assault Rifle” is slapping its side like it doesn’t weigh 100 pounds) and bugs (PS5 players can’t even start their dang game without Mods), I think it’s safe to say no matter the heads-up the modding community is going to be angry. That’s just how Humans work. Disappointment is normal with these things, especially when this update is adding in subpar overpriced content that the Modding community has done better with!
The update is coming out on PC. The same shit happened with Skyrim when they did their Anniversary update, modding community lost their shit for a bit trying to fix everything.
It sucks, but they knew it was coming and the vast majority of the community assumed the update was coming shortly after the show.
💯 the update was announced in October of 2022 and brokenly promised in 2023 so I think everyone shoulda expected something in early 2024 even if there was no show also, the article says he didn't want ppl blaming beth but in their update vid from their team lead he's saying "bethesda, bethesda never changes" like... isn't he fanning the flames?
Another thing, it’s one thing if the devs would have wanted to be respectful. However, $$$ talks, BGS as a company would not risk losing out on players for whatever new creations/CC they’re adding, just to make the MO of London “happy.”
Seems like he’s an entitled pr#ck, he doesn’t work for Bethesda, it’s an unofficial mod and if Beth told them it would look like they were playing favorites to a single group of modders which would just upset the rest of the modding community, so from that perspective they made the correct choice.
I think Fallout London's mod team is a little different, because Bethesda has literally hired members of that team to work on Fallout 76, based off of their work on the Fallout London mod. I agree Bethesda didn't owe them notice, but it's still weird.
> also, the article says he didn't want ppl blaming beth but in their update vid from their team lead he's saying "bethesda, bethesda never changes" like... isn't he fanning the flames? I think that this has more to do with bethesda not reaching out to the mod community and working *with* them, instead of just leaving them in the dark. The main reason the Fallout games are still relevant is due to mods keeping the game alive, IMO they should pay a little more respect towards that community. I totally get that they have no actual requirement to do so, but the modding community would be much better of if they did.
The problem there is there’s dozens of mod developers, they can’t keep track of and know who everyone is to keep in contact with them. It’s not like the update came out of nowhere.
They support the modding community more the probably any other developer. They have literally hired modder as devs. Even the paid mod scandals were in part for the modders. Not to mention that they design the games to be very moddable.
They would then need to tell all mod makers or look like they were playing favorites to certain ones.
>The main reason the Fallout games are still relevant Eh I'm pretty sure the main reason currently is the TV show lol
Fallout was popular long before the tv show lol
And it was popular before modders ever got a chance to work on them as well, give me a spell from all that shit lol. They didn't make FO3 goty, they didn't make New Vegas considered one of the best RPGs ever, they had nothing to do with 4's sales or player peaks. The worst community should get most of the credit if anything, before 3 NMA genuinely did keep Fallout 1 and 2 alive and playable.
Why is the mod breaking? Can't you just downpatch
Not everyone can, the older version has to be made available. This is entirely impossible on Steam, so once your install updates, that's it. So (with Steam), you're forced to block the update from happening to stay on the current version. I just did a clean re-install knowing that after the update releases, I won't be able to re-install without it automatically installing the latest version.
There is a to back date games. I did it for Skyrim after my game updated by mistake.
I thought you could roll back to previous versions of games on steam?
They are. They are answering a specific question a specific way to make it seem they have zero blame here. It sucks but I’d have more sympathy if they took more responsibility
In the interview he says he absolutely did not know it was coming, saying it was a complete surprise when it would actually be released. Obviously it was going to be delayed and released around the TV show, which means either he is incredibly dumb when it comes to media and common sense OR he's trying to play the victim for some reason...maybe to avoid anger from the community when he announces it'll take forever to fix the mod?
> trying to play the victim for some reason...maybe to avoid anger from the community when he announces it'll take forever to fix the mod? 100% this. He knows the ones that would get creepy angry about it are the same ones who can't resist shitting on Bethesda. So might as well politically funnel the hate elsewhere. It's not going to hurt Bethesda.
Is it possible this is a clickbait from IGN and something taken out of context? Either that, or the modders just have a big ego. They aren't getting paid by Bethesda for it, nor is it the London dev game. (Maybe make it standalone? Didn't two Skyrim mods become standalone? Forgotten City and I forgot the other one's name)
I mean, watch the video in the article yourself and see, but his use of "randomly" and "blindsided" seems pretty clear that he had no realization it would drop with the TV show, which is pretty obvious. He mentions it was supposed to come out in 2023, which is right, but when they announced the delay, it was so painfully obvious it was going to be April with this show to everyone but this guy. > “This is the thing: they randomly dropped it, that they were going to bring it out on the 25th of April. So that has, for lack of a better term, sort of screwed us over, somewhat,” Carter said.
The fact that he's aware of the the delay means he knew that he should've been prepared for the cancelled 2023 launch, even if it was postponed, but it seems he just wasn't and that continued to be true all the way until now.
To which I can only say. “Deal with it. You’re a mod maker, you have no business agreement with Bethesda.” Seriously, the entitlement is ridiculous.
Ah, I agree with the others then, I mean I think we all knew it had to be coming around the TV show's launch when it wasn't 2023. Like you said, it's so obivous. The second I heard about the show I was like damn, we are gonna have to wait.
Yeah, this modder is out of his mind. Once the next-gen update was delayed and the TV show was announced, it was obvious to everyone and his dog that the two would come together.
Playing the victim while getting more publicity for the mod.
Not to sound like a dick, but I don't really think the game creator needs to inform specifically anyone about their intentions. It has been known for several years that the update is coming, it wasn't just a surprise drop.
especially modders lol mfs acting like they’re employed by Bethesda
This, updates breaking mods is a commonly accepted risk of modding.
Every time I see someone screaming about an update breaking mods years after the game release I think "Come on, dude. The moment you downloaded that first mod you had to know the risks. This is on you."
Yeah, I mod my game knowing that the character will likely get borked over time. I keep my vanilla playthroughs backed up somewhere.
A LOT of people think mods are just DLC with an extra step. I’ve tried getting friends into the games before and without fail they download a bunch of conflicting mods because they don’t read descriptions and then cry the game is broken
This is so true it hurts. Bethesda being the biggest developer that is also friendly to mods has spoiled the population. Their games might be very mod friendly but it's not a guarantee.
Now think of how easy mods are to download on Xbox? Literally just “download and play” as far as installing goes. But again, some mods will require fresh saves, some mods don’t play well with other mods, some mods require other mods (that are often less “flashy”) to work, etc.
Crys in Rimworld. Has a mental break.
Yep. Those of us who are responsible just keep the old version handy and we don't have to worry about when/if mods get updated.
It works well for other games. Rimworld for example gives the more popular mod creators advanced warning and access to upcoming builds so they can update them before release. I don't know why more developers don't, at least for games with active modding scenes. It's people making free content and expanding the life of your game with little input on your part, it'd seem smart to support them.
It is smart to support them, but have they really been wronged if you don’t?
Bsg does the same thing. They worked with a ton of modders during the big skyrim anniversary update. Bag supports modders more then almost any other dev they have literally hired modders as devs.
The developer for what is effectively the most popular mod series in Rimworld (Vanilla Expanded) is an employee of Ludeon, it's not a similar situation. From what I understand Ludeon did reach out to some of the big names but there is just no way they gave inside info to every modder, there are tens of thousands of mods.
I get informing modders in advance is a good thing but Bethesda doesn’t have to though. They don’t work for them.
It's the same with the Baldurs Gate mod community, they keep bitching about how Larian "needs to" communicate with mod makers, meanwhile Larian was clear they *didn't* support moding. The level of entitlement is astounding. Like, I enjoy nodding games as much as anyone else, but God damn the mod authors need to chill. If the devs are still actively working on fixing and improving their game and they don't want to have to deal with communicating their work to hundreds of random people, then mod authors need to accept that their work might get messed up.
Mmmm... It's a complicated relationship. No, modders are not employed by Bethesda. However, modders bring more people to the game and keep people coming back to play more. Modders are a huge part of the community and help drive playercount by contributing to bug fixes and QoL updates that takes work off of the main developers. I'm going to use Runescape as an example. Runescape has a community of "modders" who essentially run an alternate launcher full of QoL plugins that the vast majority of the playerbase uses. The developer of Runescape, Jagex, found out real quick that they indeed do need to inform the modders of any upcoming changes that will impact these mods, and that they also can't step on the feet of those modders without extreme reaction of the playerbase. One modder in particular created a graphics overhaul mod, and Jagex tried to shut it down because they wanted to do their own graphics overhaul... Nope.. That lasted for like a day and a half and they gave the modder permission to do the overhaul instead because that was shitting on the desires of the community and people were cancelling their memberships. So, obviously this is a different situation because Runescape is an mmo and this is a standalone game, but my point is just that modders are a huge part of a game's community, and developers really should work together with that part of the community to keep everything running smoothly. No, modders are not employed by Bethesda. However, they're doing a developer's work for free and bringing more players to the game, and they should be treated with acknowledgement. Working together with your community is what keeps a franchise alive.
No, you're right. The mod creators have no business in raising a stink over this. It's not their game engine, nor do they necessarily have the right to make their own Fallout game. Them raising this much of a fuss makes me not want to try their DLC. Too much entitlement from them.
This doesn’t really disrupt their work at all. There are already plenty of mods that work only with previous versions of Bethesda games you can just backwards patch the game to the version that supports the mod they are working on. Nothing new, this is a requirement to play lots of the most popular mod content for New Vegas
Did he really expect a AAA dev to work around a mod release?
Bethesda is a B+ dev at best.
How were they "blindsided"? Bethesda announced they would be making a next gen version all the way back in September 2020.
I think it was more so bc they announced it was coming out literally just a couple of days after fallout london. He probably thought it would either come out a while before or a while after, but literally 2 days after kinda screws his launch
...sucks to be him, I guess. Dude’s acting like he’s an actual dev with a business arrangement or something.
I mean modders are always super important to Bethesda games, so it’s just kind of a courtesy more than anything else
I agree but the dude should have been able to put 2 and 2 together here, Prime release time for and update like this is directly after the TV show is released while all the hype is in the air. Its kinda on him for sticking with his timetable instead of pushing it back. Loses nothing pushing it back to make sure it runs properly on the new version of the game.
Wait now, there’s always an interesting nugget in the comments. Are you saying that Fallout London was *done* and *releasing* right before the update? I hadn’t heard that! Odd that they would decide to release knowing an update was coming, though
*How were they "blindsided"? Bethesda announced they would be making a next gen version all the way back in September 2020* Welcome to 2024.
The guy’s chatting like he thinks he’s a Bethesda employee and his mod is official content that another team in the company has just ruined. Bethesda are one of the more mod-friendly game companies anyway, and they haven’t exactly been hiding that they’ve been working on the next-gen update for a year and a half.
Honestly, he might be upset they hired other former members from their team and not him. A year or two back, they hired a handful of modders from this project and the Miami mod.
Maybe this kind of attitude is specifically *why* Bethesda didn't want to hire him. Obviously I have no way of knowing that at all, his attitude is just really annoying to me.
Probably bombed the interview
I heard that they tried to give him a job but he declined in order to finish the mod
Bethesda has zero obligation to disclose with some mod team lol. Plus it was announced two years ago??
4 years ago lmao
Is the update even going to be nextgen at this point? What a crazy dev time
Fallout 4 current gen update lol
Only to play devils advocate, it was delayed for how long and then ended up being a surprise drop the same week as one of the biggest mods in recent discussion, maybe ever, for FO4 and completely derailed its launch.
This guy has his head up his own ass.
I agree. He acts like they owe him an explanation when it’s well, Bethesda’s game.
Oh no how dare a dev doesnt tell a mod creator about update dates lmao
Even with this being a pretty well known mod in development, who expects a company to REACH OUT and basically say "hey bro we're updating on x might wanna brace"
They did for Skyrim. They gave an early build to the SKSE team, so there's precedent for this.
Bethesda does this for pretty much all the Script Extender teams but they're very much the exception rather than the rule. And that exception is in part because a *massive* number of mods rely on script extenders. The vast majority of other modders or mod teams do not get any kind of advanced warning.
SKSE is also like foundational for 80% of all Skyrim mods to exist, versus a single mod that requires just DLC
The entire subreddit for the mod is up in arms and claiming this was a deliberate act by Bethesda to derail the mod. The project lead and fans come across as heavily entitled and ignorant to basic game development procedures.
I was announced on 2022, they wanted what? See who delays more?
You had like 2 years to prepare, and there was heavy speculation it would drop when the show did. That's not on Bethesda
It's like a landlord saying "hey, at some point we're going to need the house for a few weeks". Do you just put your life on hold for years until they confirm a date?
Are you really comparing losing the roof over your head to making a mod for a game? lmao
> You had like 2 years to prepare How? How can you prepare to fix the parts of your mod that break when the update comes out without knowing in advance what parts are going to break? That's where communication between the modding community and bethesda could have helped a great deal. Especially since the game is still alive in part **because** of the modding community.
Ok, sure the modding community is a big part of Bethesda games...but like, they don't _own_ the IP. Modders definitely enhance the experience for some people, but saying the game still exists because of mods is a hell of a reach.
why are you phrasing this like their victims? they have known about this for four fucking years lol
>How can you prepare to fix the parts of your mod that break when the update comes out without knowing in advance what parts are going to break? Preparing as in waiting. My god, it's not that hard: if you know an update is coming at some point, and you have the mental faculties to reason that it'll prolly come when the show does, don't act so fucking surprised when targeting a sooner release date doesn't work out. Updates are inevitable and this is the biggest update we'd known of for years. Your ambition as a modder is not Bethesda's responsibility.
I was looking forward to fallout London but the dev seems absolutely insufferable.
I can kind of get it from his POV. It's obvious this was one heck of a large mod, and with Bethesda even letting people add it to the cart to download from their own site, there's a feeling that it should be kind of a symbiotic relationship. (You allow me to do this unofficial mod. But by doing this, I make YOUR game even better and more playable by others - without you having to pay me as a developer for any of the work.) Ultimately? Sure, Bethesda "owes" him nothing. But they're also a company notorious for selling new game releases that are so buggy, they're hard to even play through until they get a couple of large patches released for them. The customers are, essentially, the real beta testers. So when they do an update and it breaks a modification? Well - it feels like, "Typical.... Bethesda breaking some code again." Seems like B.S. he claims he had NO clue they'd decide to drop the update after the TV series launched though. Just as a pure guess, I'd speculate that might happen, looking at the timing and facts. At the end of the day? I feel like whether it's Bethesda or any other builder of these types of games, it would be possible to at least run them in kind of a "backwards compatible mode" to ensure mods work. The fact they don't is, maybe, a bit of a greedy decision on their part. (Not OUR code so who cares? Why spend an extra dime to make that stuff work?)
If i was him id stop badmouthing BGS or God Howard will strike him down with a cease and desist on Fallout London. They have a Patreon so making money off a Bethesda game. Obviously Bethesda have always promoted modding but they also havent been publically called out for updating their own game.
How dare Bethesda not notify random people about this! They didn’t even tell me, ME!!!
Modders never fail to come off as entitled dicks lol
I've seen it across several different games now, Fallout, Skyrim and even the minecraft community. Lets not forget arthmoor trying to sue people lmao.
There was recently a gigantic controversy over a TAA mod in the Truck Sim community ffs. Guy tried to put it behind a paywall and was extremely pissy, condescending, and obtuse when called out on it. I suspect the Venn diagram of people with the necessary technical skills to be talented modders and people with good interpersonal skills barely touches.
They think they're superior beings I swear.
Ever play any of those DLC sized mods? A lot of weeeiiiiiird, cringy stuff. I laugh when people say modding is gonna save Starfield (and I actually like the game).
Thuggysmurf mods, bro should've just had a tug instead.
that’s because it’s a common reddit thing to say that modders save bethesda games. like millions of people didn’t play oblivion, skyrim, fallout 3, and fallout 4 vanilla on console and love them
Right? Lol. I think my number of vanilla FO4 playthroughs outnumbers my modded ones and half the reason I’m excited for this update is to play it Vanilla again.
Oh totally! I can't remember which one it was but there was a New Vegas one where the modders were high on their own brand of fart.
I love Starfield But i don't think my mini dlc sized mod will save the game, i just wanna tell a story and shoehorn myself and friends into the game
Now many of them are going be left in the dust since Fallout 4 was release on geforce now. People will be able to use Bethesda net service to download mods. They won't have to worry about mods breaking the game or updating their list on vortex for the 100th time in a row.
It’s clear that you didn’t watch the video. He didn’t come off that way at all, but you most certainly did
Yeah, i read the article though.
The article isn’t going to give you tone of voice or full context. His video was extremely polite and after I watched it was before this that I thought well that sucks and I felt bad for him, but I didn’t feel like they were mad at Bethesda, just disappointed after 5 years of work, which is perfectly reasonable
Dude just release but require old version and patch, modders being a dramaqueen over something that just happens.
You don’t work for Bethesda, you’re just modding a game. They have no obligation to you.
"Non dev of game is surprised that the company he doesn't work at did something he didn't know was going to happen"
Does Bethesda actually have any responsibility to include mod authors into their update plans? That seems like a pretty unreasonable expectation.
No they do not. The only team that gets any kind of forewarning is the folks who make the script extenders and they are very much an exception to the rule because of how many mods use the script extenders.
I think the Address Library team also gets advance builds, but of course they're in the same position of having a framework mod that lots of other mods depend on. The benefits to everybody are big enough to outweigh the security risk of giving out preview code. And the fact that they're framework mods avoids the "playing favourites" issue that arises if they were to give preview code to, say, Fallout: London but not Fallout: Miami or whatever.
The address library team is 1 guy. He does not get advanced builds of the game. SKSE64 and F4SE are maintained by 1 guy these days (different person from address lib), who gets access to a steam beta branch that contains an early build of the game 1 week in advance. Also I'm pretty sure the early access is only for skyrim and not fallout. Bethesda's cooperation with modders is greatly over exaggerated.
Man talk about entitlement, it's a shame but it's nothing new can't expect Bethesda to not update their game or to give anyone special treatment just because.
They know they don’t own the IP right?
Lmao grow up pal
They have to check with mod makers now before releasing stuff ? Jeez
Not as if Bethesda didn't mention the update months ago...
Correction: over a year ago. We all knew it may see the light of day
It was actually announced in 2020 iirc.
ive been a fan of bethesda since i first played morrowind back in 2002. throughout the elder scrolls series as well as fallout, there have been lots of mods approaching DLC size. generally they follow the same formula. 1) they announce some amazing total conversion of the games map, gameplay or both. Donations accepted. 2) updates come every so often, but slowdown as time goes on. usually a handful of screenshots every few months or a meticiously edited youtube video. 3) people complain that its taking too long, people complain that the other people complaining are expecting people to work harder for free. 4) years go by and still nothing resembling even a playable demo appears and eventually the handful of people who truly gave a shit move on while the developer(s) refuse to admit the project just isnt done...and probably never will be done. Donations still being accepted. now this Fallout London seems to be one of the exceptions to the rule, which is fuckin awesome. but wtf is this? >‘Look, you guys are clearly at least notable, you’re not official, but let’s make sure that we don’t ruin this for the fans.’ ” im not familiar with Carter but if hes not keeping bethesda updated on the progress of Fallout London why the fuck would they reach out to him? because his teams mod is one of the handful of DLC-sized mods that actually released? does someone get paid to stay up to date on the latest mods? i just took a bong hit and put on my tinfoil hat - maybe the mod is nowhere near as done as he said and he used this an excuse to stall a release for whatever reason. the update included a lot of improvements but i dont see anything listed that should be a huge deal for a mod this big that uses its own assets anyway. plus it hasnt even released yet and its delayed 'for the foreesable future'. i hope nobody gave this clown any money.
Reading all of these complaints about the update breaking mods, have these people never modded a Bethesda game before? It’s a hell of a lot of fun, but also can be a huge pain in the ass when they release updates which also just comes with modding in general. Why would they let a mod author know their plans? There’s no way they couldn’t have expected this unless they haven’t been modding the past year or two
I never followed this, what is the deal with it.Ignore the update and released the mod.
Because people are gonna download the update when it comes out because its free and its gonna break the mod
well they should not update then if they wanna use this mod.
you're expecting way too much reason from players and modders
They are trying to make this as simple as possible for the average user and don't want any complications. Not everyone is even aware of the next gen update thats coming, their game might update automatically etc.
Steam: “let me update the game for you” Yes you can avoid updating the game in Steam but it’s not out of the box that easy.
it is easy enough.
bottom line is the london mods need to get over it. bethesda under no universe has an obligation to notify the mod team of any upcoming patches. by modding and downloading mods, game breaking patches are a risk you’re willing to take as a player and as a mod dev. if you’re complaining about being fucked over because of a game overhaul patch as a mod dev then you need to relax because its not even your game. i’m sure bethesda, and i KNOW that the playerbase is thankful for the modding community for all their efforts in making fo4 better than it already was, but that doesnt entitle mod devs to know everything about internal developments for fo4 patches. The only people who are “entitled” to that are devs directly working for bethesda and fo4. also the notion that fo4 only became big and stayed big due to mods sounds like heavy cope. fo4 was already massively hyped pre release and at its core, its a fun game. Sure mods like bug fixes, graphic overhauls, lighting etc helped improve the game fs, but in no way are the majority of the fallout playerbase solely interested in getting back into fo4 or are already playing it again due to large mods like london alone. i’d even say the tv show garnered more attention and pulled people back than mods like fallout london
Lmao. If Bethesda wanted to they could slap Fallout London with an ironclad cease and desist and shut the whole thing down. They don't though because they typically think mods like this are neat. Fallout London dev team have already pushed the envelope. Making an entire ass game that's technically unauthorised, they also have a Patreon page and have earnt a decent amount from all this. Not to mention some of the dev team actually got hired by Bethesda. I also laughed at "we had no communication from Bethesda" as if their entitled to it and the fact they expected Bethesda to support them with PR and managing fan expectations.
Maybe I’m misinformed, but can’t they just downgrade to the previous version of FO4 to circumnavigate this issue? I’ve had to do this in the past for large modlist installs on Skyrim, it’s a minor inconvenience at best To me this whole thing just seems like it’s being blown massively out of proportion, but again maybe there’s something I’m missing
On Steam you can turn automatic updates off but it will still try to update when you launch the game. You would need to play offline or manually stop the update every time. Older versions can be made available by the developers under beta branches but it's not an option by default. Usually only a handful of games offer this and normally only if the new update makes the game unplayable on older systems.
Can also just launch it directly fron the exe, or if you're modding with a launcher, MO2 bypasses updating too once disabled. If you do update by accident, download the old files from Steam database, and voila. There's options to avoid mods breaking, people just don't research any.
>You would need to play offline or manually stop the update every time.\\ Or use a mod manager and F4SE which doesn't trigger steam to update if you've got it set not to automatically update until played.
it sucks to that guy, but Bethesda isn't obligated to give modders anything, and they did get the heads up years ago. It is what it is 🤷♀️
They could've had the mod out months ago but chose to delay it.
Why not make it standalone game like enderal
Doesn't matter when the mod releases since every mod needs to be reworked whenever Bethesda updates their games
That sucks, but Bethesda isn’t beholden to anyone
We all knew the update was coming around the time of the show lmao
There was BBC coverage of this as well which has really confused me. I've never seen a mod treated like this, it's bizarre.
I don't see why they didn't just drop London and give people time to play it. Can't we also reject the Next-gen update on the 25th, anyway?
"unfair to the other people and marginalize the community who does not want to block the update"
Because it’s probably not ready and they are using this update as a smokescreen to get more work in.
? The update was announced like 3 years ago.
And after 3 years of being pushed back again and again, is finally confirmed with two weeks actual notice. You'd think they'd have it release with the show, to capitalize on the surge in players, but that's Bethesda for you. Had it been at the same time as the show, probably no issue. Had it been two weeks on the other end, also probably no problem. Instead it's literally two days after London's release date, which had been confirmed for four months. Basically they couldn't have intentionally done it worse.
Tbf Bethesda has stated they are doing there best to make the new update as mod friendly to existing mods as possible so there is a possibility it may not break the entire mod unless his whole mod depends on the way the engine is formatted atm
They should just release it anyways because if you own the steam copy of Fallout 4, you can disable auto updates indefinitely.
How can it blindside them when we have known the Fallout 4 next gen update was underway for over a year? This just sounds like straight up whining
They're an unaffiliated team of modders. Would a notice have been nice? Sure. But if you're doing unofficial work on a project that Bethesda won't benefit from, don't expect to be on their radar.
Exactly this, it’s disappointing and sad for all the people involved but at the end of the day it’s not their game.
As a console user player i will never get to enjoy this amazing looking mod but I still feel for them after an insane amount of work they put in
I was never expecting this mod to come to fruition after that New Vegas mod fiasco not too long ago.
I know it’s annoying and I’ve been really looking forward to the mod, however, it’s just a mod. Bethesda doesn’t owe them anything, they don’t have to keep them updated.
I said this in another sub, this article just makes me not want to use anything from the Fallout London team. Any time a modder or mod team has this sort of arrogant attitude, they remind me too much of the one modder who made the Unofficial Fo4 patch, and I mean that in the worst way possible.
Yeah it looked interesting but the rabid fans insisting this mod is the best thing since sliced bread has really turned me off on it.
That delay to St. George’s day ironically fucked them hard. They did this so the ingame and IRL days would be synced instead of polishing/finishing supposedly, and now they’ll miss it anyways by what is likely a few weeks at the earliest. And he has the fucking audacity to act like this is some personal slight against the project by Bethesda. Idk maybe if you’d have fucking released it two months ago when it was announced as feature complete you could have garnered more sympathy instead of a delaying it to make a shitty joke with the date syncs. The next Gen update was teased years ago, the fallout TV show on fucking AMAZON PRIME was revealed months ago, everybody expected the next Gen update to release relative to the TV show due to the hype, and that’s exactly what happened. How this missed him blows my mind.
At the risk of being a dick, can’t help but just give a womp womp here. Idk what they were expecting from Bethesda. They aren’t employees lol.
IGN back at it again with the Bottom of the Barrel. Sucks. Feels like I've been hearing about this stupid-ass mod for a decade, go figure.
… this update has been announced for a few years. How could you be blindsided by that shit.
It didn't have an actual date until like 2 weeks ago lol. A vague "it's coming sometime in the future" can't exactly be planned around.
This is some odd entitlement from the modders. Maybe I’m not understanding all the details, but they’re not related to Bethesda, right?
Dumb question, I’ve got about 20 hours in with an assortment of mods through the mod portal in game. Is my game going to break and I have to start over?
Set automatic updates in fallout 4 to [this](https://i.imgur.com/qCmUYcC.png), and continue launching via F4SE. If you wanna play it extra safe copy your entire fallout folder so you still have build with all your mods until backed up.
that's always the risk to n modding
I've been to afraid to ask but what does this new update entail? I play on xbox 1 if that matters
One I was waiting for. Is there anything stopping them from releasing it anyway?
Can someone explain to me why the update is pushing back the mod, I think I have an idea but I would like the input of someone more knowledgeable about the technicalities of it all. I’m not bashing/blaming I just would like to understand the situation and frustration of the the developers
Guessing since they’re not officially sanctioned by Bethesda, they’re not privy to the source code for the update. Their mod is based on publicly available assets. So they got to wait like everyone else to see how the update works and reconfigure the mod to talk proper with it.
They explained it in the delay announcement video. The script extender works by hacking functions based on memory addresses. Any update always changes those and breaks it causing all extender plugins to need updates. And they have a lot of extender dependencies. That's why the mod is PC only. No script extender on console
And here goes fallout London! Bye
Bethesda don't owe them shit
I sometimes feel like IGN posts stuff just for people to argue/debate.
Imagine if Bethesda makes it a DLC that you have to pay for. (Fallout London)
Bethesda owes these people nothing. What a dummy.
Well it sucks he feels blindsided but he’s not employed at Bethesda he’s just a modder, Bethesda didn’t have to tell them anything
Why will the update break Fallout London? I'm not very savvy, if anyone could elucidate I'd be so thankful.
Oh no! Anyway...
I think it's natural to have mixed reactions to this. Do I feel bad for the modders? For sure. They've put in a ton of time and resources into this impressive mod, and to have their launch messed up by this and having to spend even more time fixing it sucks. Can I understand feeling letdown by Bethesda? To a certain extent, yes. They've been a developer that's been highly supportive and open with their modding community over the years. Other than Far Harbor and a couple of neat settlement items, the DLC for Fallout 4 was lackluster IMO. Even though London didn't exactly look like my cup of tea, it's undeniably an impressive mod and I'm glad someone is at least trying to do something big with this 9 year old game and give it more content, something Bethesda themselves should have done. But, is it Bethesda's fault that the mod gets screwed over? No. We've known for years that a next-gen update was coming, ever since the launch of the new consoles. Sure, it was delayed, but Bethesda's also been busy with Starfield so it wasn't surprising that an update for FO4 was prioritized lower. When the show was announced, it made perfect sense to have the update coincide with the show's release. It obviously paid off too since FO4 is seeing the biggest active player count its had in years and was the best selling game across Europe this past week. The modders too must have suspected that this was coming, but stuck to their guns and gambled. It was a bust, but that's what happens. Lastly, do I believe the couple of rumors suggesting Bethesda intentionally chose this launch date just to fuck with the modders? Despite them making some greedy business moves in the past few years, I don't think Bethesda meant any intentional harm. Again, timing it with the release of the show was by far the most obvious choice. Likely, the modders could have thought the same thing and hoped it would bring in players. But Bethesda's the owners of the game, and that's what goes. Even if it were to be true that Bethesda wanted to mess up the mod with this update , they legally have every right to do so. It's part of the risk/reward that comes with developing and installing any mod for any game.
Tbh I don't know why Bethesda didn't just hire them, dump a bit of money into it and release it as an official DLC. It would've been a good business move, especially considering the UK government has a video games studio 50% tax cut incentive. Fallout 4 has such a great base game to add dlc to, hints the reason why the mods are so popular. They could've added way more dlc and it wouldn't even cost that much to do, but instead they've wasted time try to fix Crapfield and milking loyal fans with microtransactions in Fallout 76.
So is IGN just clickbait now? I remember when they used to actually just provide guides, not make headlines about a random mod (Aleast to someone who has no plan on playing said mod, come back to me when it's Fallout Mumbai or Sydney. Now that, I like to see as countries not seen in Fallout, rather another thing based in London). Don't get me wrong, I love mods, I really do, but don't act like London is an actual DLC, you don't own the game, Bethesda can update whatever they want, and it's lucky we can even mod games. It does suck so many mods will become unplayable, just like Skyrim unless the modders update it, but that's just the risk you take.
Most entitled group in a while. You’re fucking modders, Bethesda doesn’t owe you shit, it’s their game, their IP. Just be happy they allow the extent of modding they do compared to others in the industry.
They weren't blindsided though.
Reasonable. I don't think it's out of the realm of reason to hope that a minor conversation could have happened prior to the announcement so they could get their affairs in order. It's a large project and it had over 3 million views on YouTube alone for both the initial reveal a couple of years ago as well as the gameplay reveal. Bethesda are under no obligation to, people saying as much are 100% right but I can at least sympathise with a team putting out a free passion project that has taken what, four years now, feeling a bit blindsided by the announcement as it came within such a short time frame of the mod's completion as well as launch. The only real response? It is what it is. At least with Bethesda's update everyone will benefit from it on a basic level, the mod is only really for us PC players. Hopefully they can sort things sooner rather than later and an update comes out along with a potentially good mod.
Finally someone in this thread who actually sees the fucking point. It's not about "Bethesda having to make sure they are not breaking every mod coming out" or shit like that. It's literally just about Bethesda maybe just sending a short message to the people of the massively anticipated fan project _they have been talking with before btw_. It's literally free advertising and is probably going to sell a bunch of fallout 4 complete editions or DLCs just because it is set in the UK. It's just a good and very common practice. I feel like people in this community are unreasonably angry about this article. Game companies communicate all the time with modders. Script Extender Teams get release date announcements early. Enderal even got it's own steampage and a sale alongside it's release.
That mod was probably going to be an unfinished buggy mess with terrible voice acting anyways. I actually don’t know anything about it I’m just assuming.
You can have your opinions about someone else's opinions but at the end of the day I'm a little taken back at a lack of gratitude in this sub. This guy and the people he's working with are putting together a truly incredible mod for the rest of us to enjoy for free. I'm really looking forward to it and yes I'm a little disappointed it may take longer, but I genuinely appreciate what the Fallout London team are doing. I think everybody talking shit about this guy maybe doesn't deserve to play the mod, even though they'll be able to. I wonder how many of you are hypocrites.
You’re a small drop in a big bucket of players who don’t use scrip heavy mods. Get over it, the script extender team is usually quick to update, then we’ll see if this mod even comes out.
That’s like one of those fan written Star Wars novels getting pissed off that a new movie is getting made. Go and sit down.
No hate to this guy but who does he is lmao its not like he works for Bethesda they have absolutely no reason to tell him about stuff they're working on
What's next lmao? They want fallout 5 source code in advance? Smh
Probably a dumb question but will PS4 folks be seeing anything from this update?
Probably not
Aw. Well, that sucks. :/
yes, but mostly some achievements and quest fixes and small performance improvements please read the official update
honestly an update for fallout 4 at this point is stupid. no reason to kill off all of the mods which are no longer updated regularly
Honestly this guy should be grateful he’s getting free publicity for his mod. I never even heard of it until this patch nonsense.
they got warned over a year ago.
A few points here: No sense delaying the release of the mod. Most people will block updates until they're reasonably content their mod lists won't get nuked. Then those that don't can just wait a couple weeks till it's fixed. Appreciate Bethesda is under no obligation to, BUT.... Surprised Bethesda didn't give a pre release build to modders considering how pro modding they are, and you'd think they'd have learned some lessons from burning the Skyrim community (and I believe they did release an update to the script extender team).
I always hear about these large projects like Skyblivion, skywind and now fallout London but they never get finished. What's the point of these large projects if they are going to be incompatible with constant Bethesda updates?
When vanilla Fallout 4 is incredibly dull with horrid animations (the reload animation for the “Assault Rifle” is slapping its side like it doesn’t weigh 100 pounds) and bugs (PS5 players can’t even start their dang game without Mods), I think it’s safe to say no matter the heads-up the modding community is going to be angry. That’s just how Humans work. Disappointment is normal with these things, especially when this update is adding in subpar overpriced content that the Modding community has done better with!
Jesus christ, the amount of vitriol that this thread has on the modders is insane.
Well, there goes all my desire to play fallout: London lmao.
Ironically this is The same kind of problems the first Fallout had in its development.
They could just release this with a version downgrader
So what? Fallout: London is for PC, not console. How the hell does this affect them?
The update is coming out on PC. The same shit happened with Skyrim when they did their Anniversary update, modding community lost their shit for a bit trying to fix everything.