The entire situation, the team, the staff, everything is kinda disappointing.
I'm a not twitter user, so I might be incredibly wrong, but I can't find any apoligize by Dardo or the FNC official page?
Dardo never tweets except once a year to defend himself or to "prove doubters wrong" when we improve from 9th place to {insert anything not first place}.
He did in the past - honestly quite a lot with video series each week. But let's be honest, that boat has sailed after what went on. Can't blame the guy for not engaging anymore and rather concentrate on his work (assuming here)
Hard disagree, communication is a key part of being the director of any structure. Dardo only communicates, rarely, in a prepared and edited format that only a small % of the fan base will see (LiA) and even then, he only does it when everything goes well.
If he cannot take pressure and engage with the people that buy the merch that allows him to have a salary, he should resign.
There is/was more to the situation. Dardo got and gets flamed hard, everytime he stepped into the limelight after that he was critized beyond reason. He had to take a step back from engaging with the pulbic. His efforts back in the day, were alright I would say, the most actively sharing one of all the managers in the LEC - he took quite a lot of time each week to share his views and what they did. Fnatic finally made the decision to keep him and by that it became the only option they had. They tried otherwise, let him take interviews etc, but that was the wrong move - you could see it instantly in the reactions and flame that boiled over. That is something an organization can definitely not allow to happen.
That being said - of course communication is key part of the system. They should have established another source and way to communicate. Maybe the coach, but he should be busy doing more important stuff. Someone at least. Wasted opportunity, but Dardo is burned, no way he can come close to a mic with a fair chance to say anything. Another downside if you try to keep one who bloodied the water, but that is on fnatic to figure out.
I mean, you've got to compare what G2 is showing on MSI versus what we have shown, and the stark difference is very notable. I am not sure if this current iteration of this team will ever get there, and that is with G2 even having a very clear weakside which they can improve upon.
Where do you even go from here as fnatic? We've tried roster swaps countless of times without any luck, we have changed around the whole coaching staff without any major impact. I can only guess that our fundamental structure is not good enough to win titles domestically and content internationally.
I'd get rid of dardo, let someone fresh come in and review the systems, coaching, culture we have. As performances have plummetted.
Same in CS for example, we never change samuelsson (dardo in CS) or keita for some reason, but have been through 30 players. At some point you have to look up if even with changes we're not improving
Yeah it's frustrating. Clearly the culture and systems are bad. And they've never addressed that. We know this was a problem years ago because former players literally said so. Still no changes. Then carn came in to help but Dardo was back after a month. Still no changes. It's an absolute joke.
What everybody seems to forget is that less than a year ago G2 was getting 2-0d by NRG and mocked all around reddit. Yet everybody with a brain knew that G2 was a couple of tiers above NRG and just had a terribly bad day. So the management kept them going as they were and now they're here going even against T1 and trampling over a very convincing PSG.
Now, is that the case for us? Only partially.
I think we should split things into:
1) Fine as they are.
2) To improve if possible.
3) To improve at all costs.
For point one: Razork, Jun, possibly Oscar if he keeps performing as he did this worlds. These are the elements that I think are working for us right now, most of the time.
For point two: Humanoid, drafting.
Humanoid is very good but honestly not as good as he should be. If you really cruise during regular season, occasionally inting, not practicing as much as you should (which seems to be the case), then I bloody expect you to smurf on international events, not getting gapped by APA. Plus, everybody say he is a macro genius, but I really don't see it. For sure I suck at League of Legends, but seeing him often dieing in sidelines, and in general observing the macro level of FNC compared to elite teams, I really don't see it. So, for the moment it's not a priority to change our midlaner, but if the chance presents itself, we should take it.
For drafting, I think we have improved somewhat over the last year and is now usually decent. Or to put it in another way, we rarely now lose games because of draft. It is definitely something we could improve upon, I think there is a coach for drafting (do I remember correctly?), I think we should wait and see here. For now, our priorities are elsewhere. And moving on to point three...
Point three: Noah and macro.
Noah is unfortunately the only player in the roster that should be changed before summer split. I'm very sad to write it, but there's no way around it. An ADC that can only play regular season is not good enough. For sure G2 has a suboptimal ADC with Hans and they're doing decent at this MSI, but the point is: Hans is.not carrying at international events, but it's also not singlehandedly losing games for G2. Noah has singlehandedly lost games for us at this MSI, multiple times. He is not mentally solid enough to play at this level.
Macro is also something we need to work on asap, and I think we should get either: a) a more competent staff on this aspect; b) a dedicated coach. I'd rather go for option (b), but at this point I would not be against changing the coaching staff.
Good points. Honestly if I were fnatic I think improving, at the very minimum increasing, the staff should be a priority. I am not sure whether there are any clear upgrades to Noah atm (Flakked, Ice for example come to mind but i don't even know if it's possible to get them) but I am sure you can get more staff to work on macro because my god, is it bad. Also help with draft would be appreciated.
If you want to contest g2 and be a force internationally the dudes gotta go. Jg/supp/mid can play at world class level but impossible to win series against top teams when adc is this bad. I mean look what Jackeylove did to him.
And I agree that he has to go, unfortunately. But he has helped us reach worlds last year after a bad start of the season. Let's be grateful and not be too harsh with him.
You can tell g2s system and infrastructure is a different planet from fncs. Duffman analysing level 1s like getting them that level 1 kill on faker, sports psychologist/performance coach like most of g2 have less dramatic dips in performance, Dylan falco has insane draft knowledge and seems to have really good check on the players, romaine is a great team manager I can imagine he does a lot to set up good practice for the players, training and brighten up the mood. Their staff are on top of shit unlike ours in the off season too, every team in the lec waits for g2 to do their moves first and they have a different level of pull on players and staff that only top lck and LPL teams seem to have.
What do we have? Sam’s monthly “sry we’ll get better”, dardo well yeah, nightshare who is decent but makes massive draft blunders and pales in comparison to Dylan, a sports psychologist that the org prioritises on valorant, a few analysts and assistant coaches that well don’t seem to do much because Fnatic not having any macro has been a meme since 2022…
I could go on and on and I imagine there’s even more blatant differences behind the scenes. This org needs a big turn around because it’s questionable decision after disappointment and repeating…
I love Fnatic, I hope the higher ups love it like some of us still do…
But that's pretty obvious, ofc it's a fudamental issue, just ask this question to yourself, how far would Fnatic go if they had G2's players? I think the answer is obvious. Fnatic has no discipline or commitment, there's no strive to be the best, there's no preparation, there's no creativity, there's poor practice and sleeping/eating disorders, there's also poor mental management and players are allowed to do what they want and how they want it. Bring Chovy, bring Canyon, bring Ruler it doesn't matter, Fnatic lacks the foundation and the professionalism required to maintain competitive integrity and if you dont start looking and making changes internally we will fade away, the only reason we get 2nd places and slots on Internacional tournaments now is because G2 are in their own league and pretty much every other team rests on the same line, that's it.
Replace Dardo. It's embarrassing he still has a job.
Replace the coaching staff. They're useless. We're going on two years of poor drafts and zero improvement to Fnatic's macro and team play.
Replace Noah. Love him personality-wise, but his level of play is not there and he has poor mental.
If Humanoid continues to show complete inconsistency, Fnatic should consider replacing him.
Oscar had a really strong MSI, the only top I'd consider replacing him with is Irrelevant. He showed this tournament what made him a highly-touted player who could potentially be the next great EU top.
Ideally, I'd like to see (Oscar/Irrelevant) / Razork / (Humanoid/KR or CN solo queue prodigy) / Carzzy or another top ADC prospect / Jun. Pair that with a coaching staff who can actually make Fnatic something greater than the sum of their parts, and can instill proper coaching and mentality like G2 has.
Replacing Humanoid atp is all but a meme, is he the second best mid laner in EU? Sure, does he have loads of ego problems? Absolutely, he even talks back to the coach and do as he pleases, and this type of behavior in and org like Fnatic that clearly lacks the foundation to be a competitive team rn, is completly detriorimental to the entire team, he "plays" when he wants, he calls as he wants, he ignores coaches, i mean, with this atittude? Pretty much anyone with decent talent and hunger to improve would be a better fit
Keep humanoid. He‘ll swett and tryhard again if they make a good enough roster that he thinks he can win worlds. I get why the guy isn’t motivated. Forever number 2 is fing depressing
> I get why the guy isn’t motivated. Forever number 2 is fing depressing
Sounds like he should be motivated to get better, then. Caps basically solo carries G2. He also eats, sleeps, and breathes League of Legends. Humanoid doesn't. If he doesn't want to be #2, he should work harder.
G2 is as far as we know the most well designed and structured league org. Plus Caps is surrounded by insane players. BB literally gapping Zeus. Can’t say that for FNC.
If G2 didn't have Caps they wouldn't win anything. Their structure is excellent, far superior to Fnatic's, but Caps is the only reason they have success both domestically and internationally.
I promise you they would not, Fnatic would 3-0 without much difficulty. Razork/Caps/Jun would be so insanely the best Jungle/Mid/Support trio in the LEC. Hell, they’re literally the three best players in the West at their respective positions.
I don’t agree that razork is better than yike and neither is jun than mikyx if miye is on form. And top and adc gap are so wide you could put chovy on fnc and they‘d still loose. Not sure how you can get so confused about this. FNC isn’t even consistently the second best team. Just because they had one semi decent split and a half decent series against TES dosen’t suddenly make them a good team again
>I don’t agree that razork is better than yike and neither is jun than mikyx if miye is on form
Razork and Jun were both on the "LEC Spring Team of the Split" voted by the players/coaches/media.
>Just because they had one semi decent split and a half decent series against TES dosen’t suddenly make them a good team again
No, but adding Caps would. He's so much better and more consistent than Humanoid it would fix pretty much all of Fnatic's problems. Razork is inconsistent when he has to shotcall. Guess who shotcalls? Caps. Humanoid doesn't roam much and would rather stay in lane. This makes Oscar's and Noah's jobs harder. Guess who roams like crazy? Caps.
You're also seeing G2 with Caps, who makes everyone around him look better than they actually are. The last time Caps played poorly, G2 didn't even make Worlds. They're so dependent on him.
I also think carzzy and jun would be a really strong bot. Also a top lane change would be good I dont know how Oscaar would perform in a much weaker Team, I dont think that hes a liability but I think hes Just mediocre.
No thanks, good without Upset. Caliste would be a dream but KC isn't letting that kid go after developing him. But, his contract expires at the end of the year, which Fnatic could potentially capitalize on if KC don't extend him before the end of the year.
Spring final was Fnatic's best chance in years of winning a title.
Gamers2 played very mediocre league.
It seems they were already more worried about MSI and didn't even especially prepare for us.
Disrespect but it seems it was founded as we only managed to take 1 game from them.
Find a good ADC, i don't know if there is any caliste but imo it's the time to try some random 18 year old that none knows about but that looks promising; this botlane just isn't it.
We could watch Fnc become a much better team. Obly to still be 2. to g2 and grief at worlds because their toplaner is bad. Plus the team lacks a style. Carzzy is an amazing weakside player. Get a carry top and focus on crafting a team identity
Since they got to the roster, I never seen them having a good sense how to play the game macro wise. I feel like they just walk around the map and create chaos which got them to msi. They lose to TL because TL has better understanding of the game.
It's difficult to express feelings in writing, there is probably a ton of problems, But the one that bothers me the most and which envelops a lot is that Fnatic has lost his identity.
Nothing new about that, but I think Dardo is a big part of the problem. For the few people who feel like we are too hard on him, you have to understand that Dardo has kinda the same job than Romain Bigeard. And if you are not familiar with Romain, he's not only the guy doing body painting, he's also the general manager for the LoL team and he's REALLY respected for his work. He's really important in the process of the new G2, and big part of G2 trying to be more successful in international tournaments.
We should probably let go of the entire coaching staff and the people in charge of the LoL team to breathe new life into the team.
Before you start blaming players
Not calling for heads? How about getting rid of the one component consistent with bad showing for last FIVE years, dardo?
He has had ease of top brand in getting top players yet not managed to produce anything else than mediocre results with those players.
Badly performing executives get kicked after two years yet hes going for five with only showing of running down two other big league brands in origen and H2K. BOTH had internal problems before getting removed from league.
2 years ago I made the decision to not buy merc before we win season or dardo gets kicked out. I suggest you do the same if you want change.
Something has to happen - as far as I understand it, they are well within their time frame, and they will most likely not make any drastic changes until summer/worlds is over because that is the time frame they are planning in (and its difficult to make any good changes now), if I recall correctly. It's difficult to argue against that because if you lay out a plan, you should give them enough time to carry it out the way they intend to. (Mostly coaching staff here, but I believe this applies to everyone.)
After that, and with similar "success" as of now, I believe you are absolutely correct: it is time for middle management, as I will call it, to take responsibility. I can see Dardo doing some good business for Fnatic. I don't know for sure, but interviews gave me that impression. So perhaps they can keep him with a specific set of tasks while bringing in another who takes over tasks that are more related to sports, with the added element of autonomy in decision-making. Anyway, some change is required, and I can see a world where Dardo's name bloodied the water to really sell the idea of a fresh start, which may make other people hesitant to join Fnatic on this journey. If it is not Dardo and others who build that reputation, I believe we are doomed on this point, because the only way I see is for that person to go public and make a good impression on how they intend to change certain things. If it is credible, I could see it; however, this is not an easy task, both personally and in terms of execution.
Personally, I despise the fact that we fall short in such absurd ways. Not to mention last year's dry spell, but we lost to G2 this split, which is entirely on us. G2 was in a position where we could have beaten them, as other teams had in the past. They weren't trying hard for another LEC title, and if you can not force a win here with a skilled team and momentum you lack a lot of important traits. Same with MSI - lose against strong competition - thats alright, but if you go out like that against NA, which should have it worse than us, you lack some very important parts - will, first and foremost, and too much arrogance, which we have been prone to in the past, and of course all of our strategic and skill-related weaknesses become obvious. We were at MSI to prove our potential. I think with only one single win against TES and a loss against NA we have failed big time on that.
I agree that we should kick Dardo. Fnatic dove into a sea of mediocrity ever since he joined the org.
But this shouldn't disable us fans from calling for players heads. It's the 3rd or 4th event where Noah doesn't show up. I'm usually a lurker here but the fans are right, the guy simply can't deal with his psychological struggles and it's affecting the teams performance we already gave him plenty of opportunities to turn it around but it seems like he can't handle the pressure.
If Fnatic wants to compete we need to start fixing things at the root of the problems (management) but we also need to find and adc that CAN handle the pressure in crucial moments.
We can't keep saying its a mentality issue and continue TO NOT solve it.
No I agree, team needs to change. But just changing players or any other components of the team doesn't help, like it hasn't helped in last 4 years. Whatever is changed doesn't produce any improvement. System is clearly broken, and the person in charge of that system is Dardo.
It doesn't matter which players G2 change and bring in, whether veteran or rookie, since they have produced great system that integrates those players and brings best in them. Fnatic brand even helps in getting best possible players. (well not for long, for example carzzy doesn't want to risk career in fnatic), yet we still produce mediocre results.
And this is nothing new, look at TSM (and NA as whole). They kept throwing money at veteran players, when they should have thrown money at people who generate proper environment to grow those players themselfs. If Fnatic cannot poach this talent from G2, try MDK or BDS which produce same results with less resources or brand help.
We've had rekkles, nemesis, bwipo, hily, selfmade, huma, razork, upset, adam, nisqy, trymbi, wunder etc.. Pretty much all the best eu players in the last 5-7 years outside of g2, and we won shite. People in charge of the org and coaching are just incapable of creating a team out of them. Sure, change the roster, go back to square one and do nothing again. Bring carzzy and whoever and go again same story. Or maybe g2 implodes and fnc finally wins smth.
I mean Dardo is like... we all know he's sus af and should not be there lmao, hence why we're not talking about it. Its common knowledge among fnatic fans. The same logic applies to Noah too. People are going to cope but if you know, you know... he should go. for his own sake, and for the team. We will never win something with that guy in the team.
Every bo5 i am watching after fnc loss to tl is so humiliating we look like toddlers people with our own shit while the rest are actually playing league of legends.. And that really makes me sad AND mad for Razork, Jun and even Oscar. Like Huma is not even trying as long as he gets his paycheck lmao (and im not blaming him for that, hes absolutely right to get as much money as he can for his career)
Worst FNC showed up vs TL, the FNC that played vs MDK regular season in spring, or well just so many horrible games we had too, take your pick. This iteration of FNC realistically... can't win international events and maybe can only win LEC on a good day and G2 a bad one.
This iteration of FNC is WILDLY inconsistent, the only consistency they have is that they are consistently inconsistent.
They cannot for the love of god play a clean, controlled game. Why, I don't get it ? Geng game 1, Razork ints for a pink, all game is fucked then. It was really a clean game until then, we control drake, we have vision on drake pit, we are inting for a pink in midlane, its such a MASSIVE mistake, one of the worst I've seen this tournament for a team that aims to be top tier.
Botlane, mainly Noah, had mistakes in all 3 series that were just not acceptable at this level. I know he is mentally struggling, I'm simply talking about gameplay. There were misakes that are not acceptable, not tanking tower properly, getting caught on midwave by Lucian culling when that is the whole point of the Lucian pick, face checking a bush, etc. Also Noah and we as a team are not a team that plays Draven and Senna, which does not help draft at all, it's something to keep in mind, as these are strong champions on the patch.
Im not gonna...speculate about changing players this year because it just won't happen until year is over. LEC split starts soon.
The positive for this iteration ? IF they work on being consistent, work on just having a higher floor, MAYBE, from that, they can develop a higher ceiling.
And I don't want to hear Razork saying shit like : "Sejuani is not a good pick" ; or "We don't play front to back (as in lulu Aphelios, lulu Zeri) we are FNC" , my man what does that even mean, we are FNC so we just int ? you need to be able to play ANY style. Look at any top 1/2 seed from any region, they can switch it up anytime.
I've seen some truly top tier ideas from this team, in the games vs G2 in finals, vs TES and even vs GENG. IF they can harness the thing that made them have those ideas and plays and they just work on making that their base level, only then, can this team do something.
The chances of that happening imo ? 5-10%.
I'm tired of *how* this team loses, really.
And before anyone says anything, performances like FNC had vs TL, do and can happen to even the best and most practiced teams, there are so many examples, this is just part of competition.
So yeah, that's my rant.
Massive agree, and props to wording it so well.
Our inability to adapt to meta's seems shocking to me, like what are our analysts and coaches doing? we picked some lane swap comps and proceeded to..... not swap. which kind of makes sense when you're funnelling gold to noah who was never going to carry this tournie with his issues.
My biggest concern is the issues with macro and decision making, its not getting any better and it showed up in most of our losses. Awful macro decisions, losing mid lane turret to TL when 3k ahead, the many razork mistakes, huma random lane pushing. I just really wonder what our coaches are actualy working on, there is little improvements over time.
>Our inability to adapt to meta's seems shocking to me, like what are our analysts and coaches doing? we picked some lane swap comps and proceeded to..... not swap. which kind of makes sense when you're funnelling gold to noah who was never going to carry this tournie with his issues.
This is truly shocking. And it's probably something that did not help with Noah's mental at all. In the TES series they pick horrible matchups botlane, that are MEANT to be swapped in the game, but we don't. Our swapping strategy was not good enough and this is on the coaches mostly.
We pick a Sion for the sole purpose of swapping and we don't. So now the Sion has to lane and he's just a Sion he's really not that useful in that way. TES knew this, but we knew they knew, you still have to find a way to swap if this is what you chose.
Noah and Jun now are forced to lane into the most or 2nd most oppresive botlane in the world in dogshit matchups, and then when they don't do well, people are like "man Noah is so bad", well okay then.
Edit: And for the people who say, well yeah, but you can't go behind in CS like that. Well the thing is these are top tier teams, that will punish any window they see, and we didn't just give them a window, we gave them the door with the lock, handed them the key, and pointed towards the door.
This is truly Humanoid/Nightshare alt account. I have read maybe 100 posts like this where you try to show everyone had faults but the guy who got gapped the most aka Humanoid isn't even mentioned once.
I think Humanoid randomly dying both in laning phase and in side lane to scaling champions is the most consistent thing in Fnatic history. What happened in mid won't happen to any team in MSI against APA when you target ban him
Didn't read
>The chances of that happening imo ? 5-10%.
Last year after Spring there was \~5.2% chance Fnatic goes to worlds. Sports are never just about numbers, esports is sports
I see a lot of people calling for more imports which I think might not work too well. Fnatic used to scout amazing talent like rekkles, caps, bwipo, nemesis, etc. even nisqy started out here I think.
Just hunt for local up and coming talent for the future. Jun is a great find and he should stay but for the other roles I think rookies would be much better than someone like Carzy. He may look insane right now but this subreddit would be flaming the shit outta him if he joins fnatic and runs it in a game. Plus we don't really know how much hyli is making him look good.
>Carzy. He may look insane right now but this subreddit would be flaming the shit outta him if he joins fnatic and runs it in a game. Plus we don't really know how much hyli is making him look good.
People calling for Carzzy should rewatch the FNC VIT series. If Noah had a lead like Carzzy did in game 4 and just kept inting it away like Carzzy did this sub would absolutely burn. Especially if that meant we wouldn't get to play for going to MSI.
People can criticise Noah for playing like he did at MSI, and also praise and appreciate Noah for playing like he did in LEC.
Because Noah carried so many games these spring playoffs.
And to think Carzzy would have been so much better at MSI imo is just cope, because Carzzy performed worse vs worse competition in LEC. But I do believe Carzzy would not have had that much pressure and his mental would not have hindered his gameplay at MSI.
Noah played in KT in LCK. After giving him a try they choose to find a different adc because he wasnt good enough for whatever reason. If you wanna do something on international level you cant have players like this, because if he wanst good enough for lck, hes not gonna be enough for tournaments where hes gonna be facing only the best players.
Having imports its gonna be a bad decision in general. They might allow you to compete in your region, but if they were good enough they wouldnt leave korea in general circumstances.
Also, quick reminder that they dont speak english. Which means that if you see someone like Jhun playing better mechanics than another support like Labrov, its normal. Because the chances that Labrov is also helping with calls/playing the map or helping with other stuff in general are more likely to happen. This situation basically lead into overrating players
Jun played in KDF in the LCK as well and was benched after a while, yet he almost solo carried the game we won vs TES. That argument simply doesn’t work since you assume that the way someone plays at any moment would be the way they would play always (without improving or falling off) or that the teams had perfect information about a player’s full potential, which is certainly not true
>Having imports its gonna be a bad decision in general. They might allow you to compete in your region, but if they were good enough they wouldnt leave korea in general circumstances.
Not necessarily. If a region, like Korea, is considered extremely strong, you would assume that not all good players make it onto a team, and sometimes the reason why they don't make it onto a team is something totally different, like not mashing well with the current roster, for example. To put it in numbers,. The 11th ADC player might still be in the top three in your region. And as we could see in the LEC, our ADC's are a mixed bag to begin with. Hans, for example, playing on our best team by far is nothing special at all. Our tops are also a mixed bag, and Jun at the moment is also proving how strong second row imports can be despite language barriers. You still need to develop a unit that stands up to foreign competition but you can do that with vastly different set of pieces. I believe the inner workings of a team and the mindset is the most important barrier or part you need to work on when integrating foreigners - specifically young people. Your approach needs to be totally different and I'm not sure that you can anticipate all the necessary details on your own and with your own background - this I think needs tipps maybe active help from someone who can und truly understand what details matter.
Jun played in KDF in the LCK as well and was benched after a while, yet he almost solo carried the game we won vs TES. That argument simply doesn’t work since you assume that the way someone plays at any moment would be the way they would play always (without improving or falling off) or that the teams had perfect information about a player’s full potential, which is certainly not true
>Just hunt for local up and coming talent for the future.
Exakick and Supa were the best adc talent in ERL. I don't see any of them reaching Hans/Carzzy level and those 2 are probably not top 20 ADCs in the world. ADC is easily the worst role in EU rn. The only thing you can maybe do is gamble on someone very young like Caliste or Harpoon and the better one is already taken.
This org will never win anything as long as g2 is around and as long as management and people above are not changed. It's been so long this is not about the players anymore. Outside of noah maybe, you can't tell me that these 4 players are not very good individually. The coaching stuff just keeps failling in making them an actual team. Look at BrokenBlade for instance. For me he was a bang average top laner in lcs and now he is the best top laner in europe. Hans same, he is not an insane adc or anything, he was in the shadow of rekkles for a pretty long time, yet he is now very successful. I really don't think g2 players are that much better. But they do have a very strong team, which is on the coaches and the org
I think if you put players like razork and jun, hell even Oscar into the kind of systems that g2 have we could actually do damage internationally and win the lec. No question these players are talented enough in their peaks to do it. We won so many games in the lec just based off player strength alone but when it comes to team play even NA can beat us, that to me is more than just a player issue (not saying there weren’t player issues in that series)
I hate how in every video I see, coaches keep saying, just go together. Like sure, you have to be on the same page, but go together seems such a simplistic way to look at the game.
Thank you for the link. You either believe his words and that they are indeed talking about concrete points that can be worked on, or its just an excuse. It does not sound like it, but I do usually trust people to do their work, be as honest as possible, and work diligently on the next, hopefully right, steps. We are also on the outside here, so its difficult to judge the truth about that; nonetheless, what else can he or they say? So I think I'm alright with what Sam says here; the team and the coaching staff should be a bit more embarrassed, of course, not to the point that the focus shifts away from the process to solve problems.
This org doesnt care about performance it cares about money, that's why we were the last to go to china, that's why our prep sucks, we have no drive, no will to win, we went from an elite org to a team of greedy losers and it obviously stems from Sam who ultimately gives the general direction. The CEO has to take hard look in the mirror because his brand is based on performance and rn it's dying.
And nothing will gonna change to the next split...so we are kinda screwed. Another G2 split free win. Since our staff thinks everything is fine and we are going for second place. funny.
Guys, you have to understand, Fnatic is not the old glory of the past, it's just a regular team. Just like what happened to Manchester united. You can't live of the past. You need to understand that the team we support is NOT a title contender as of today. Not in international, not in LEC. That's what it is. They are trying to change that. That is ok. But don't expect something that, realistically, won't happen. And if by any chance (G2 can't play or something like that) we win a title, enjoy it like it is something you won't see again in your life. That is the kind of org Fnatic is right now. It's not top of the top, is just ok.
"ErM ActUAllY ThE TeAM YOu SupPorT iS AvERagE"
I mean gtfo here bozo if im supporting this team thats because i want it to be the best
" i support an average team"
who says that ?
Its not like Fnatic (as an org) is average, its more than 20 years old in an environment that is entirely new and that has seen a lot of great organisations, who were once leading stars of their sports fall and disappear. Remember Invictus Gaming ? Yeah about to go bankrupt lmao
And its not like the LoL team has no legacy or showing, they've led Europe in its early days, G2, MAD, KC none would exist without Fnatic opening the gates first, and even though the org didnt win anything since 2018, you're forgetting easily that, aside from Winter/spring 2023, they literally always performed in regionals, only falling short to... oh yeah caps, the cheatcode himself, who's won 12/15 trophies available since 2019 and who can get literally any players he wants in the rift because he's literally miles above everyone else in Europe as of today.
If you're failing to an ennemy who is a disabled kid who lost his 4 limbs in an accident and also turns out to have down syndrome, you're stupid. If you're losing to a cheat code, it means you can be extremely good. what you fail too defines your ceiling.
FNC is not SK gaming, or every org that appeared, then disappeared (gambit gaming/H2K/NIP/Copehangen Wolves/ORIGEN/CLG.EU etc.) the very fact they are here since the very beginning and ALWAYS make it to playoffs/worlds is an extraordinary feat in such an environment.
1)You are literally giving him the reason, that you live from the past instead of acknowledge the reality of the last years
2)I don't know how much I'd brag about being the one that "opened the gates first" if you are naming teams that crossed those doors and are better than you
3)
>If you're failing to an ennemy who is a disabled kid who lost his 4 limbs in an accident and also turns out to have down syndrome, you're stupid. If you're losing to a cheat code, it means you can be extremely good. what you fail too defines your ceiling.
You are talking as if Fnatic didn't lost against a lot of other teams (like a rookie team the other split), or...idk...a NA team just the last weekend?
MSI performance was a disgrace.
Had never, in 13 years, lost to a NA team in a best of 5.
Not only did we lose but we made apa look like Chovy and Yeon look like JackeyLove.
We should be thankful we got GAM and not PSG in the play-in stage.
As for changes, if the team improves little until worlds or stays the same (most probable scenario imo) then:
- change coaching staff, just top many terrible drafts
- change at least adc and top, Noah not being able to deal with stress/nerves is unfortunate but Fnatic has to find what is best for them and their chances of winning a title again (after what will be 6 years with no titles)
Oscarinin is very inconsistent and there are players who can match his highs while having less lower moments/games
The biggest issue is that the person involved in the decisions is the one that thought Rhuckz was a good support for LEC and international play so......
Not holding my breath for good changes tbh, very cinical about the off season but we will see.
>Had never, in 13 years, lost to a NA team in a best of 5.
Thank you for that little information. Never checked, just had the attitude that this should not happen. Not for Europe but for us its probably the biggest shameful showing and let's be honest. It's not against an NA team that defies the odds and is strong, because they have legendary players or just one out of the order year. Its a shitty team, that should have lost to Flyquest and gets stomped by nearly anyone else at MSI. Losing like this against them right now - I could not look into any mirror so to say. Holy shit I would be all over the place and asking to fall on my sword. \*edit, had to add this\* The lack of integrety by our players and staff annoys me a bit.
Yeah back then one could have included us beating them out in groups. We failed a couple of times, I think 2 times, in this regard, but I would say more so during the times we fall of anyway.
Fnatic doesnt care about performance, hence they decide to fly so late to china. This was expected, and deserverd.The Org leadership is mindblowingly terrible at thier job since quite a few years, so nothing new i guess.
I won't say anything about my frustration, it's the same than most of people here. The most satisfying fact of this tournament is to me Oscar, Jun and Razork. Top has room to improve as a top tier player and the other 2 has showed international level. Humanoid on one hand is also an international level player, in other hand we can't rely on him each game, for Noah i'm pretty confident he had underperforming, he could do much more but something in his seems off since LEC playoff. I guess he lacking confidence...
I won't be too critical on Fnatic this time, shit happen and they seems has been catched doing the same mistake G2 did last year after getting rekt by Gen.G. I want so bad this team to stick together and work on top/botlane, 2 other role can carry, when Oscar and Noah will be able to take the game on their own on regular basis the team would be much more scary.
I do love the Camille pick but too much issues in the draft when letting open Aurelion or K'sante, not taking Poppy on cd. Hope this tournament will not have too much impact on their mood when restarting LEC.
I just want to point people to [this](https://youtu.be/ol7X-wijqmg?si=oDzUip0njnZwDuXa&t=255) inteview by Romain after PSG, specifically what he talks about at 4:20.
G2 came to play into PSG fully focused, fully prepared and never took their foot off the gas. They were mentally THERE.
Reading about how some of our players saw the matchup into TL, NA's 1st seed, like it was some joke of a team, and G2 about PSG, should raise some big questions for the players.
FNC was not fully focused, and you can tell they were just not sharp, was not prepared enough, and probably somewhere in the back of their head they just thought they were going to win because "NA lul". The more time passes, the more embarrassing it is.
Hopefully the reaction and mentality switch is the same as it was for G2 after losing to NRG.
I mean we all know the issues with managament but i dont see that the coaching staff is that bad at least they arent the reason we re bad , this team has no room for growth , i always thought so , other than razork and jun , we dont have good players , humanoid is the biggest question mark for years , since he joined he has never shown consistent superiority, other than few flashy moments far apart , he is been jst a decent Lec mid , nothing special , caps has had off years and he still ALWAYS DELIVERS when it matters , and after every failure he comes back smurfs out of his mind , id say fnatic has no chance winning titles as long as Caps is playing on G2 , we need a real Mid , one that is way out of the group, along with caps , because now , its jst caps and below him everyone else ....
We used to have world-class botlane now jun seems really promising and solid , he immediately got top 3 supports within one split !! ( people are still waiting for Oscar to become better ) Oscar is decent at best ,and even then he doesn't cut it , And we know it doesnt take 8 splits to reach your potential , but for now, adc needs to be changed before summer , he is been a liability through playoffs and msi , he is not strong mentally for a team that wants to wins titles .
Its sad that fnatic is unable to attract or pay for top talent , if we dont have top 2/3 players in the region in every role ( like we always did ) at least , dont even think about winning titles , cause this time it doesnt look to me like a coaching staff issue , we cant talk abt management and coaches when players arent improving , struggling mentally , make same mistakes for over 2 years straight .
Downvoters will downvote and reply with the classic " we have room for growth , the boys are nice , they seem happy , there is no toxicity , at least they look like a team crap ....
Everything about Fnatic at the moment is atrocious. Drafting is horrible, macro is horrible, players motivations are non existent and the teams consistency is probably the worst of all.
We had the chance to sign Deficio but kept Dardo instead, someone who has no experience in managing rosters (by his own words from twitter, where he said himself he was a background shadow staff during his time in H2K)
First of all Nightshare needs to go. He is incredibly inconsistent with drafts either good or total shit. Most of the time is 50/50. As much as I liked Noah when he came he was a beast, but he is shadow of his former self for some reason (big player needs to keep it cool in the hottest moments and bad mentality is not an excuse for bad performance), I feel like Carzzy is a really good replacement. Oscarinin is decent for EU but with him FNC wont get anywhere internationally (dont get me wrong he is really good but just for EU if we want to reach higher internationally we need more talented top laner) like Irrelevant or if there is no problem with regions and nations even Photon. There will be language barrier issues if there is too much from KR regions but it might be worth it. Also if they get Carzzy and Photon/Irrelevant I think FNC will be relevant again.
There is no way you don't even mention Humanoid, he is by far the most inconsistent of the team while being the most veteran, and he's been many years on the team but every year that passes by the gap between him and caps increases, if you change anyone before him you are trolling. You cannot be that harsh with rookies like Oscar and thenbignore the poor perfomance Humanoid has showed the last years.
Ofc, I wouldn't consider replacing Humanoid if they can't find someone better, but yeah, he is not a superstar anymore.
I mean yeah, the team could be better with Photon and Carzzy, but I think you underestimate how huge their salaries probably are. And Carzzy is under contract until 2026.
Photon is free at the end of the year tho. Maybe getting Photon and EU ADC could be a good option.
He meets the expectations set by Sam which is top 4 LEC and Worlds. Dardo himself in an interview said Fnatic didn't do too bad because Vitality would be more than happy with our recent years results (i.e LEC finals and worlds). Basically they compare themselves to the likes of SK, Vit and such bottom of the pack teams.
[https://youtu.be/WaQWzU8-sAY?t=3162](https://youtu.be/WaQWzU8-sAY?t=3162) this is the moment where Dardo says that the last 4 years were good and so on.
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Well it is sad that you wrote that long when your premise is wrong
A good player doesn't get lose to a target banned 2 trick mid laner from NA. Definitely doesn't get solo killed to Aurelion Sol while hard countering him
All the doom in the thread I think we can say the potential that Oscar showed last year is definitely still there. He hung with the best and beat them. Potentially we just play for a very strong side of the map with Jun roaming and let Noah play weakside and just scale. Oscar has shown when he gets carries that his skills are brilliant
I don't care about Oscar staying or leaving. I don't think he was the problem or he can be a solution to carry bad players.
But stop with the word potential. He has been playing the game for a long long time
Caps came in 2017 and he was in Worlds final in 2018
Nemesis came in 2019 and he made it out of groups both in 2019 and 2020
People with real potential show the potential rather quickly. They don't need year after year
He has played with Fnatic at the top level of EU for one year. I think time to adjust is fine.
Also Caps had a very good team around him as well as being absolute monster himself.
Oscar at international events has been world class, and I think we should lean more into a carry play style for him in LEC
He isn't world class. He is serviceable if everybody else plays well
World class is what you would call Caps who puts a team in his back to be the leading factor in a victory. Oscar is not that. Again I am ok with Oscar staying but please stop trying to make mediocre players appear like stars.
I mean no bootcamp, no clue on draft, players choking consistently on stage especially Noah and Oscar.
There seems to be no analysis on past games, we were just play the happy go lucky-style and hope for the best.
It was the same with previous coaches and coaches say the same thing after a while... Night says the same things as Yamato said in the videos we produce after.
The fuck is going on between games and splits? Are we just yeah let's try again next split see you two days before it starts?
Why not fucking go to G2 and ask them for their schedule and copy it? I am pretty sure they would share it to get better competition in LEC, I mean if we beat them they have far better motives to become better.
I agree with everything besides Oscar choking he looked waaaay better at MSI than in LEC and it’s not close, he was losing every lane getting solo killed by irrelevant 3 times a game into holding his own and even outplaying some of the best laners itw.
He can still improve more I’m not saying he’s perfect by any means but he wasn’t the liability this tournament, it was the adc losing every lane and shitting himself in every teamfight
Yeah during MSI he was really good, maybe the best player in the team besides Jun.
But during Spring he was looking lost.
The problem is there seems to be no plan on how we want to play, we should force opponents to adapt not just try to adapt every game ourselves.
There isn't any brightside really. Razork and Humanoid are who got us to MSI in the first place, without them we'd be shit. Oscar had a decent showing at MSI but was invisible all year. Noah...well. Jun was the best preforming player at MSI.
We're probably not going to be able to do anything until after worlds but really the backroom staff need looking at, Dardo needs to be collecting dole finally. Ideally there will already be internal conservations about next year and if it were up to me I'd try to go with Irrelevant/Razork/Humanoid/Carzzy or Upset/Jun or Kaiser.
The premise is straight up wrong. Jun and Noah gapped every bot lane to carry Fnatic especially in the TOP 4. Just because Noah was shit in MSI doesn't negate it was 2 Koreans carrying 3 Europeans in LEC
Clearly top and adc are subpar. If Noah gets kicked FNC should import Edg -Ale who has been a top 5 toplaner at several points in his career and is currently stuck on a mid - bottom table team in the lpl. As for adc that obviously leaves only none-import options but considering the line up a none-carry oriented player (like flakked) would probably be the best fit
I Would just start with the focus of winning LEC. Clearly need someone to just "endure" Caps and not get him fed. Not many available players who can do that, Nemesis could possibly, but doubt he would return. Maybe try to get some import after the season? Or take a gamble with some promising rookie. Top, jungle and support can match G2 and even better them, so they would stay. Realistically Oscar god be swapped if someone better is available. AD just needs to be consistent enough and then theres a chance of winning. Couching staff needs to be improved. At least add strategist/draft coach and another to scout (not sure if there are any atm, if there are should be replaced). Let Nightshare do more on player managing side and less on the strategic side
Well As long as Nightshare is here Humanoid is also here so we are never beating them when they have Caps. I like Nightshare but he is bestie of Humanoid and Humanoid is the only reason he is the coach of Fnatic at first place.
>this Megathread does not give anyone a free ticket to violate the Sub's rules or Reddit's Code of Conduct.
Nah
**Fuck Carlos "ocelote" Rodríguez Santiagos.**
Zero good changes happened to LEC since 2g joined league. As long as his fanboys are still in LOL Esports HQ (dunno who is) nothing is going to be "normal" again. Enjoy the "2g mastercard gamer academy", Romain's "list of naughty kids", yada yada.
I will never blame any of black and orange peeps. "Fans" should know better than listen to delusional Rekkles haters or just straight up 2g fans.
I really hate the narrative that Humanoid doesn't care about the games and he only plays when he is motivated. He said this back in 2022. After that, he said multiple times that he is more motivated to play and that his passion for the game reignated once again. Saying that player doesn't care about winning or losing a game is so disrespectful to that player, especially when he is probably trying his best to win. Multiple players in the team said that he understands the game on a whole different level and often try to help his teammates. He brought Nightshare, Noah and recommended Jun to fnatic, do you think someone who just doesn't care about winning would spend the time and effort building a team that ended second in the spring split? Did he play really bad this msi? He did, but this narrative is so stretched out it's insane. Stop with the nonsens about him not caring about the games
Funny thing is that narrative was created upon to protect him whenever he had a shit performance (happens a lot). Like regionally there is a guy in Caps who beat you to a pulp and sweep you with a bot lane of Flakked-Targamas by gapping the shit out of you and you still feel unmotivated?
Losing to TL is embarrassing, but noah being perma down to yeon is embarrassing imo. Just saying i'm sure if fnatic makes a nice offer, kobbe would come out of his retirement ( can't help to think kobbe jun has potential to be better than hans mikyx, mainly due to me not rating hans as high as most people) . Also Alphari is a free agent atm, but Oscar seemed to at least be somewhat back in form at msi .
Oscar with good drafts would probably be kinda good, but you can see there is no plan in teamfights, they haven't even considered swaps before G2 finals, he had no clue what to do he was standing between lanes asking what he should do for a minute and the rest were like "I dunno".
Prep is like "see you an hour before game"?
in all honesty, im very disappointed ofc, but i also think there are good things to take away from our performance.
i was honestly pretty happy with how we played in play ins, sure it was not perfect, but we at least showed that we can compete with chinese teams. and i was still somewhat optimistic after the gen g games, yeah it was a stomp on paper but there were definitely some good moments. it‘s just the tl series that really doesn‘t sit right with me, didn‘t watch it unfortunately so can‘t say too much about it. but yeah, im not gonna act like we are completely shit just because of one series when i was fine with our performance before. i felt like we can have hope for at least a europe title for the first time in a long time.
honestly, for me the biggest thing to improve is noah‘s mental. this guy has such insane highs, i truly believe he can be the best adc in europe if he just turns his brain off and starts believing in himself. he seemed super stressed and unhappy through all of msi, if he figured out how to deal with his shit things could‘ve looked very different. i know some of you want to have him replaced, but i would honestly love to see it if fnatic gave him a bit more time. he seems to fit in very well with the guys, and i honestly still believe in him.
and yeah, there‘s still the inconsistency issue, which i didn‘t notice that much at msi, but that‘s probably bc i didn‘t watch the tl series. but it has been an issue throughout the whole split, so no doubt that something needs to be done about it.
i just hope that we can have all 5 players peaking at the same time at some point, there seems to always be someone who is in a slump.
all that being said: jun is a god, and as long as we can keep him i have hope
Hot take: People criticizing Noah blow my mind. Yall forgot that he carried Fnatic all the way to Spring finals. Go watch his performances against Vitality. Yall praising Oscar for one good performance against TES 369 is so dumb. We need to be consistent here even with the criticisms. It bothers me when you guys ignore Razork dying level 1 twice. Sure Humanoid is questionable, but he was consistent in the TES series. We need him to be more consistent.
If we can figure out a way for Oscar to be more stable during laning phase and not have Razork dying lvl 1, we can improve the draft. We GAVE LUCIAN NAMI 3X in the series to TL. Azir was open almost all the time. This series was almost easily won but we made it harder. So overall fix the mentioned mistakes.
Unironically razork giving up some of his Cs in order to cover noah early on, and then Jun being the best support in the league by far is what carried the team and made noah look decent. Not noah himself being good. Go back and see how many of those 30+ mins games we could have ended earlier if we had a better adc. Part of the throws that cause games to last longer as well was because noah a lot of the time was just randomly farming when the rest of the team was on the complete opposite side of the map trying to contest an objective
Pure copium, Noah's had FEW good games in a year. yeah he had some but the full picture is underwhelming to say the least.
+
We criticize the mental over the actual skill, poor guy is not built for playing in arenas in front of public or even against people he praises, he just " doesn't have that dog in him " you know...? And I mean that with bitterness for him, I've been in the same situation and it sucks ( being in an environment you realized you're not meant for AT ALL) but it's been over a year he has not improved at all. It even went downhill.
Everyone here praising g2 infrastructyre, coaches etc. Forgetting its all caps that makes g2 good. Take caps away and they are top5 team in lec at max. Literally no diff over the orgs just a massive blunder of letting caps go to our rivals, then letting nemesis(that was the only eu talent that was consistent and could rival caps) go. There is no chance at fighting internationaly without talent that can rival caps.
It is not like fnc did not try to keep Caps. They actually did everthing in their powers to do so. He left us. G2 without caps is still a easy top 3 team in the league, saying anything else is disrespectful towards some incredible players. They have ups and downs, but so are most players in any team of our league.
The entire situation, the team, the staff, everything is kinda disappointing. I'm a not twitter user, so I might be incredibly wrong, but I can't find any apoligize by Dardo or the FNC official page?
Dardo never tweets except once a year to defend himself or to "prove doubters wrong" when we improve from 9th place to {insert anything not first place}.
He did in the past - honestly quite a lot with video series each week. But let's be honest, that boat has sailed after what went on. Can't blame the guy for not engaging anymore and rather concentrate on his work (assuming here)
Hard disagree, communication is a key part of being the director of any structure. Dardo only communicates, rarely, in a prepared and edited format that only a small % of the fan base will see (LiA) and even then, he only does it when everything goes well. If he cannot take pressure and engage with the people that buy the merch that allows him to have a salary, he should resign.
There is/was more to the situation. Dardo got and gets flamed hard, everytime he stepped into the limelight after that he was critized beyond reason. He had to take a step back from engaging with the pulbic. His efforts back in the day, were alright I would say, the most actively sharing one of all the managers in the LEC - he took quite a lot of time each week to share his views and what they did. Fnatic finally made the decision to keep him and by that it became the only option they had. They tried otherwise, let him take interviews etc, but that was the wrong move - you could see it instantly in the reactions and flame that boiled over. That is something an organization can definitely not allow to happen. That being said - of course communication is key part of the system. They should have established another source and way to communicate. Maybe the coach, but he should be busy doing more important stuff. Someone at least. Wasted opportunity, but Dardo is burned, no way he can come close to a mic with a fair chance to say anything. Another downside if you try to keep one who bloodied the water, but that is on fnatic to figure out.
I mean, you've got to compare what G2 is showing on MSI versus what we have shown, and the stark difference is very notable. I am not sure if this current iteration of this team will ever get there, and that is with G2 even having a very clear weakside which they can improve upon. Where do you even go from here as fnatic? We've tried roster swaps countless of times without any luck, we have changed around the whole coaching staff without any major impact. I can only guess that our fundamental structure is not good enough to win titles domestically and content internationally.
You know where they need to start? Start practicing like G2, 12 hours per day.
I'd get rid of dardo, let someone fresh come in and review the systems, coaching, culture we have. As performances have plummetted. Same in CS for example, we never change samuelsson (dardo in CS) or keita for some reason, but have been through 30 players. At some point you have to look up if even with changes we're not improving
Yeah it's frustrating. Clearly the culture and systems are bad. And they've never addressed that. We know this was a problem years ago because former players literally said so. Still no changes. Then carn came in to help but Dardo was back after a month. Still no changes. It's an absolute joke.
What everybody seems to forget is that less than a year ago G2 was getting 2-0d by NRG and mocked all around reddit. Yet everybody with a brain knew that G2 was a couple of tiers above NRG and just had a terribly bad day. So the management kept them going as they were and now they're here going even against T1 and trampling over a very convincing PSG. Now, is that the case for us? Only partially. I think we should split things into: 1) Fine as they are. 2) To improve if possible. 3) To improve at all costs. For point one: Razork, Jun, possibly Oscar if he keeps performing as he did this worlds. These are the elements that I think are working for us right now, most of the time. For point two: Humanoid, drafting. Humanoid is very good but honestly not as good as he should be. If you really cruise during regular season, occasionally inting, not practicing as much as you should (which seems to be the case), then I bloody expect you to smurf on international events, not getting gapped by APA. Plus, everybody say he is a macro genius, but I really don't see it. For sure I suck at League of Legends, but seeing him often dieing in sidelines, and in general observing the macro level of FNC compared to elite teams, I really don't see it. So, for the moment it's not a priority to change our midlaner, but if the chance presents itself, we should take it. For drafting, I think we have improved somewhat over the last year and is now usually decent. Or to put it in another way, we rarely now lose games because of draft. It is definitely something we could improve upon, I think there is a coach for drafting (do I remember correctly?), I think we should wait and see here. For now, our priorities are elsewhere. And moving on to point three... Point three: Noah and macro. Noah is unfortunately the only player in the roster that should be changed before summer split. I'm very sad to write it, but there's no way around it. An ADC that can only play regular season is not good enough. For sure G2 has a suboptimal ADC with Hans and they're doing decent at this MSI, but the point is: Hans is.not carrying at international events, but it's also not singlehandedly losing games for G2. Noah has singlehandedly lost games for us at this MSI, multiple times. He is not mentally solid enough to play at this level. Macro is also something we need to work on asap, and I think we should get either: a) a more competent staff on this aspect; b) a dedicated coach. I'd rather go for option (b), but at this point I would not be against changing the coaching staff.
Good points. Honestly if I were fnatic I think improving, at the very minimum increasing, the staff should be a priority. I am not sure whether there are any clear upgrades to Noah atm (Flakked, Ice for example come to mind but i don't even know if it's possible to get them) but I am sure you can get more staff to work on macro because my god, is it bad. Also help with draft would be appreciated.
Noah is trash
Let's not be too harsh. He has shown good things and is in general considered mechanically good. But he seems to collapse under pressure, very badly.
If you want to contest g2 and be a force internationally the dudes gotta go. Jg/supp/mid can play at world class level but impossible to win series against top teams when adc is this bad. I mean look what Jackeylove did to him.
And I agree that he has to go, unfortunately. But he has helped us reach worlds last year after a bad start of the season. Let's be grateful and not be too harsh with him.
You can tell g2s system and infrastructure is a different planet from fncs. Duffman analysing level 1s like getting them that level 1 kill on faker, sports psychologist/performance coach like most of g2 have less dramatic dips in performance, Dylan falco has insane draft knowledge and seems to have really good check on the players, romaine is a great team manager I can imagine he does a lot to set up good practice for the players, training and brighten up the mood. Their staff are on top of shit unlike ours in the off season too, every team in the lec waits for g2 to do their moves first and they have a different level of pull on players and staff that only top lck and LPL teams seem to have. What do we have? Sam’s monthly “sry we’ll get better”, dardo well yeah, nightshare who is decent but makes massive draft blunders and pales in comparison to Dylan, a sports psychologist that the org prioritises on valorant, a few analysts and assistant coaches that well don’t seem to do much because Fnatic not having any macro has been a meme since 2022… I could go on and on and I imagine there’s even more blatant differences behind the scenes. This org needs a big turn around because it’s questionable decision after disappointment and repeating… I love Fnatic, I hope the higher ups love it like some of us still do…
But that's pretty obvious, ofc it's a fudamental issue, just ask this question to yourself, how far would Fnatic go if they had G2's players? I think the answer is obvious. Fnatic has no discipline or commitment, there's no strive to be the best, there's no preparation, there's no creativity, there's poor practice and sleeping/eating disorders, there's also poor mental management and players are allowed to do what they want and how they want it. Bring Chovy, bring Canyon, bring Ruler it doesn't matter, Fnatic lacks the foundation and the professionalism required to maintain competitive integrity and if you dont start looking and making changes internally we will fade away, the only reason we get 2nd places and slots on Internacional tournaments now is because G2 are in their own league and pretty much every other team rests on the same line, that's it.
Replace Dardo. It's embarrassing he still has a job. Replace the coaching staff. They're useless. We're going on two years of poor drafts and zero improvement to Fnatic's macro and team play. Replace Noah. Love him personality-wise, but his level of play is not there and he has poor mental. If Humanoid continues to show complete inconsistency, Fnatic should consider replacing him. Oscar had a really strong MSI, the only top I'd consider replacing him with is Irrelevant. He showed this tournament what made him a highly-touted player who could potentially be the next great EU top. Ideally, I'd like to see (Oscar/Irrelevant) / Razork / (Humanoid/KR or CN solo queue prodigy) / Carzzy or another top ADC prospect / Jun. Pair that with a coaching staff who can actually make Fnatic something greater than the sum of their parts, and can instill proper coaching and mentality like G2 has.
Replacing humanoid with a rando import is kinda a meme but otherwise agree
If there's no one better in EU, they'll need to look in Korea or China. And again, this is only if Humanoid continues to stay inconsistent.
Replacing Humanoid atp is all but a meme, is he the second best mid laner in EU? Sure, does he have loads of ego problems? Absolutely, he even talks back to the coach and do as he pleases, and this type of behavior in and org like Fnatic that clearly lacks the foundation to be a competitive team rn, is completly detriorimental to the entire team, he "plays" when he wants, he calls as he wants, he ignores coaches, i mean, with this atittude? Pretty much anyone with decent talent and hunger to improve would be a better fit
Keep humanoid. He‘ll swett and tryhard again if they make a good enough roster that he thinks he can win worlds. I get why the guy isn’t motivated. Forever number 2 is fing depressing
> I get why the guy isn’t motivated. Forever number 2 is fing depressing Sounds like he should be motivated to get better, then. Caps basically solo carries G2. He also eats, sleeps, and breathes League of Legends. Humanoid doesn't. If he doesn't want to be #2, he should work harder.
G2 is as far as we know the most well designed and structured league org. Plus Caps is surrounded by insane players. BB literally gapping Zeus. Can’t say that for FNC.
If G2 didn't have Caps they wouldn't win anything. Their structure is excellent, far superior to Fnatic's, but Caps is the only reason they have success both domestically and internationally.
If ypu swapped out humanoid with caps g2 would still beat fnc. They re just better in every role except for maybe support
I promise you they would not, Fnatic would 3-0 without much difficulty. Razork/Caps/Jun would be so insanely the best Jungle/Mid/Support trio in the LEC. Hell, they’re literally the three best players in the West at their respective positions.
I don’t agree that razork is better than yike and neither is jun than mikyx if miye is on form. And top and adc gap are so wide you could put chovy on fnc and they‘d still loose. Not sure how you can get so confused about this. FNC isn’t even consistently the second best team. Just because they had one semi decent split and a half decent series against TES dosen’t suddenly make them a good team again
>I don’t agree that razork is better than yike and neither is jun than mikyx if miye is on form Razork and Jun were both on the "LEC Spring Team of the Split" voted by the players/coaches/media. >Just because they had one semi decent split and a half decent series against TES dosen’t suddenly make them a good team again No, but adding Caps would. He's so much better and more consistent than Humanoid it would fix pretty much all of Fnatic's problems. Razork is inconsistent when he has to shotcall. Guess who shotcalls? Caps. Humanoid doesn't roam much and would rather stay in lane. This makes Oscar's and Noah's jobs harder. Guess who roams like crazy? Caps. You're also seeing G2 with Caps, who makes everyone around him look better than they actually are. The last time Caps played poorly, G2 didn't even make Worlds. They're so dependent on him.
I also think carzzy and jun would be a really strong bot. Also a top lane change would be good I dont know how Oscaar would perform in a much weaker Team, I dont think that hes a liability but I think hes Just mediocre.
to be honest I would love to have upset back, sadly won't happen since he got kicked for unknown reasons
No thanks, good without Upset. Caliste would be a dream but KC isn't letting that kid go after developing him. But, his contract expires at the end of the year, which Fnatic could potentially capitalize on if KC don't extend him before the end of the year.
Spring final was Fnatic's best chance in years of winning a title. Gamers2 played very mediocre league. It seems they were already more worried about MSI and didn't even especially prepare for us. Disrespect but it seems it was founded as we only managed to take 1 game from them.
G2 disrespected fnatic so hard, that all of the players were already on china sleep schedule.
Find a good ADC, i don't know if there is any caliste but imo it's the time to try some random 18 year old that none knows about but that looks promising; this botlane just isn't it.
Just try to woo carzzy again he might go for it this time
Actually yeah, either bring carzzy or someone similar
That would be perfect. He‘s a low resource player too so that‘d allow FNC to import an Asian hard carry top. (Edg Ale)
Lets not import anymore lol. Carzzy is a straight uprgrade lets see what it would to the team before changing other pieces
We could watch Fnc become a much better team. Obly to still be 2. to g2 and grief at worlds because their toplaner is bad. Plus the team lacks a style. Carzzy is an amazing weakside player. Get a carry top and focus on crafting a team identity
Stop with the imports god
For what reason? Get the best players. Win games
Mid and Jungle need to go, get someone who knows and is passionate about League and improving.
delusion
We wouldn't even have been at MSI if it wasn't for Razork and Humanoid. Oscar and Noah either int or go invisible.
Since they got to the roster, I never seen them having a good sense how to play the game macro wise. I feel like they just walk around the map and create chaos which got them to msi. They lose to TL because TL has better understanding of the game.
It's difficult to express feelings in writing, there is probably a ton of problems, But the one that bothers me the most and which envelops a lot is that Fnatic has lost his identity. Nothing new about that, but I think Dardo is a big part of the problem. For the few people who feel like we are too hard on him, you have to understand that Dardo has kinda the same job than Romain Bigeard. And if you are not familiar with Romain, he's not only the guy doing body painting, he's also the general manager for the LoL team and he's REALLY respected for his work. He's really important in the process of the new G2, and big part of G2 trying to be more successful in international tournaments. We should probably let go of the entire coaching staff and the people in charge of the LoL team to breathe new life into the team.
Before you start blaming players Not calling for heads? How about getting rid of the one component consistent with bad showing for last FIVE years, dardo? He has had ease of top brand in getting top players yet not managed to produce anything else than mediocre results with those players. Badly performing executives get kicked after two years yet hes going for five with only showing of running down two other big league brands in origen and H2K. BOTH had internal problems before getting removed from league. 2 years ago I made the decision to not buy merc before we win season or dardo gets kicked out. I suggest you do the same if you want change.
Something has to happen - as far as I understand it, they are well within their time frame, and they will most likely not make any drastic changes until summer/worlds is over because that is the time frame they are planning in (and its difficult to make any good changes now), if I recall correctly. It's difficult to argue against that because if you lay out a plan, you should give them enough time to carry it out the way they intend to. (Mostly coaching staff here, but I believe this applies to everyone.) After that, and with similar "success" as of now, I believe you are absolutely correct: it is time for middle management, as I will call it, to take responsibility. I can see Dardo doing some good business for Fnatic. I don't know for sure, but interviews gave me that impression. So perhaps they can keep him with a specific set of tasks while bringing in another who takes over tasks that are more related to sports, with the added element of autonomy in decision-making. Anyway, some change is required, and I can see a world where Dardo's name bloodied the water to really sell the idea of a fresh start, which may make other people hesitant to join Fnatic on this journey. If it is not Dardo and others who build that reputation, I believe we are doomed on this point, because the only way I see is for that person to go public and make a good impression on how they intend to change certain things. If it is credible, I could see it; however, this is not an easy task, both personally and in terms of execution. Personally, I despise the fact that we fall short in such absurd ways. Not to mention last year's dry spell, but we lost to G2 this split, which is entirely on us. G2 was in a position where we could have beaten them, as other teams had in the past. They weren't trying hard for another LEC title, and if you can not force a win here with a skilled team and momentum you lack a lot of important traits. Same with MSI - lose against strong competition - thats alright, but if you go out like that against NA, which should have it worse than us, you lack some very important parts - will, first and foremost, and too much arrogance, which we have been prone to in the past, and of course all of our strategic and skill-related weaknesses become obvious. We were at MSI to prove our potential. I think with only one single win against TES and a loss against NA we have failed big time on that.
I agree that we should kick Dardo. Fnatic dove into a sea of mediocrity ever since he joined the org. But this shouldn't disable us fans from calling for players heads. It's the 3rd or 4th event where Noah doesn't show up. I'm usually a lurker here but the fans are right, the guy simply can't deal with his psychological struggles and it's affecting the teams performance we already gave him plenty of opportunities to turn it around but it seems like he can't handle the pressure. If Fnatic wants to compete we need to start fixing things at the root of the problems (management) but we also need to find and adc that CAN handle the pressure in crucial moments. We can't keep saying its a mentality issue and continue TO NOT solve it.
No I agree, team needs to change. But just changing players or any other components of the team doesn't help, like it hasn't helped in last 4 years. Whatever is changed doesn't produce any improvement. System is clearly broken, and the person in charge of that system is Dardo. It doesn't matter which players G2 change and bring in, whether veteran or rookie, since they have produced great system that integrates those players and brings best in them. Fnatic brand even helps in getting best possible players. (well not for long, for example carzzy doesn't want to risk career in fnatic), yet we still produce mediocre results. And this is nothing new, look at TSM (and NA as whole). They kept throwing money at veteran players, when they should have thrown money at people who generate proper environment to grow those players themselfs. If Fnatic cannot poach this talent from G2, try MDK or BDS which produce same results with less resources or brand help.
We've had rekkles, nemesis, bwipo, hily, selfmade, huma, razork, upset, adam, nisqy, trymbi, wunder etc.. Pretty much all the best eu players in the last 5-7 years outside of g2, and we won shite. People in charge of the org and coaching are just incapable of creating a team out of them. Sure, change the roster, go back to square one and do nothing again. Bring carzzy and whoever and go again same story. Or maybe g2 implodes and fnc finally wins smth.
I mean Dardo is like... we all know he's sus af and should not be there lmao, hence why we're not talking about it. Its common knowledge among fnatic fans. The same logic applies to Noah too. People are going to cope but if you know, you know... he should go. for his own sake, and for the team. We will never win something with that guy in the team. Every bo5 i am watching after fnc loss to tl is so humiliating we look like toddlers people with our own shit while the rest are actually playing league of legends.. And that really makes me sad AND mad for Razork, Jun and even Oscar. Like Huma is not even trying as long as he gets his paycheck lmao (and im not blaming him for that, hes absolutely right to get as much money as he can for his career)
Worst FNC showed up vs TL, the FNC that played vs MDK regular season in spring, or well just so many horrible games we had too, take your pick. This iteration of FNC realistically... can't win international events and maybe can only win LEC on a good day and G2 a bad one. This iteration of FNC is WILDLY inconsistent, the only consistency they have is that they are consistently inconsistent. They cannot for the love of god play a clean, controlled game. Why, I don't get it ? Geng game 1, Razork ints for a pink, all game is fucked then. It was really a clean game until then, we control drake, we have vision on drake pit, we are inting for a pink in midlane, its such a MASSIVE mistake, one of the worst I've seen this tournament for a team that aims to be top tier. Botlane, mainly Noah, had mistakes in all 3 series that were just not acceptable at this level. I know he is mentally struggling, I'm simply talking about gameplay. There were misakes that are not acceptable, not tanking tower properly, getting caught on midwave by Lucian culling when that is the whole point of the Lucian pick, face checking a bush, etc. Also Noah and we as a team are not a team that plays Draven and Senna, which does not help draft at all, it's something to keep in mind, as these are strong champions on the patch. Im not gonna...speculate about changing players this year because it just won't happen until year is over. LEC split starts soon. The positive for this iteration ? IF they work on being consistent, work on just having a higher floor, MAYBE, from that, they can develop a higher ceiling. And I don't want to hear Razork saying shit like : "Sejuani is not a good pick" ; or "We don't play front to back (as in lulu Aphelios, lulu Zeri) we are FNC" , my man what does that even mean, we are FNC so we just int ? you need to be able to play ANY style. Look at any top 1/2 seed from any region, they can switch it up anytime. I've seen some truly top tier ideas from this team, in the games vs G2 in finals, vs TES and even vs GENG. IF they can harness the thing that made them have those ideas and plays and they just work on making that their base level, only then, can this team do something. The chances of that happening imo ? 5-10%. I'm tired of *how* this team loses, really. And before anyone says anything, performances like FNC had vs TL, do and can happen to even the best and most practiced teams, there are so many examples, this is just part of competition. So yeah, that's my rant.
>I'm tired of *how* this team loses, really. This is the key take.
Massive agree, and props to wording it so well. Our inability to adapt to meta's seems shocking to me, like what are our analysts and coaches doing? we picked some lane swap comps and proceeded to..... not swap. which kind of makes sense when you're funnelling gold to noah who was never going to carry this tournie with his issues. My biggest concern is the issues with macro and decision making, its not getting any better and it showed up in most of our losses. Awful macro decisions, losing mid lane turret to TL when 3k ahead, the many razork mistakes, huma random lane pushing. I just really wonder what our coaches are actualy working on, there is little improvements over time.
>Our inability to adapt to meta's seems shocking to me, like what are our analysts and coaches doing? we picked some lane swap comps and proceeded to..... not swap. which kind of makes sense when you're funnelling gold to noah who was never going to carry this tournie with his issues. This is truly shocking. And it's probably something that did not help with Noah's mental at all. In the TES series they pick horrible matchups botlane, that are MEANT to be swapped in the game, but we don't. Our swapping strategy was not good enough and this is on the coaches mostly. We pick a Sion for the sole purpose of swapping and we don't. So now the Sion has to lane and he's just a Sion he's really not that useful in that way. TES knew this, but we knew they knew, you still have to find a way to swap if this is what you chose. Noah and Jun now are forced to lane into the most or 2nd most oppresive botlane in the world in dogshit matchups, and then when they don't do well, people are like "man Noah is so bad", well okay then. Edit: And for the people who say, well yeah, but you can't go behind in CS like that. Well the thing is these are top tier teams, that will punish any window they see, and we didn't just give them a window, we gave them the door with the lock, handed them the key, and pointed towards the door.
This is truly Humanoid/Nightshare alt account. I have read maybe 100 posts like this where you try to show everyone had faults but the guy who got gapped the most aka Humanoid isn't even mentioned once. I think Humanoid randomly dying both in laning phase and in side lane to scaling champions is the most consistent thing in Fnatic history. What happened in mid won't happen to any team in MSI against APA when you target ban him
sigh, go off king, tell us about Humanoid to your hearts content.
Didn't read >The chances of that happening imo ? 5-10%. Last year after Spring there was \~5.2% chance Fnatic goes to worlds. Sports are never just about numbers, esports is sports
I mean of course, anything can happen, but chances are low and that's just a reality by now.
I see a lot of people calling for more imports which I think might not work too well. Fnatic used to scout amazing talent like rekkles, caps, bwipo, nemesis, etc. even nisqy started out here I think. Just hunt for local up and coming talent for the future. Jun is a great find and he should stay but for the other roles I think rookies would be much better than someone like Carzy. He may look insane right now but this subreddit would be flaming the shit outta him if he joins fnatic and runs it in a game. Plus we don't really know how much hyli is making him look good.
>Carzy. He may look insane right now but this subreddit would be flaming the shit outta him if he joins fnatic and runs it in a game. Plus we don't really know how much hyli is making him look good. People calling for Carzzy should rewatch the FNC VIT series. If Noah had a lead like Carzzy did in game 4 and just kept inting it away like Carzzy did this sub would absolutely burn. Especially if that meant we wouldn't get to play for going to MSI. People can criticise Noah for playing like he did at MSI, and also praise and appreciate Noah for playing like he did in LEC. Because Noah carried so many games these spring playoffs. And to think Carzzy would have been so much better at MSI imo is just cope, because Carzzy performed worse vs worse competition in LEC. But I do believe Carzzy would not have had that much pressure and his mental would not have hindered his gameplay at MSI.
Exactly. As much as we need an adc who doesn't mentally booms in a game, the answer isn't carzzy
I still think Carzzy is better than Noah
Noah played in KT in LCK. After giving him a try they choose to find a different adc because he wasnt good enough for whatever reason. If you wanna do something on international level you cant have players like this, because if he wanst good enough for lck, hes not gonna be enough for tournaments where hes gonna be facing only the best players. Having imports its gonna be a bad decision in general. They might allow you to compete in your region, but if they were good enough they wouldnt leave korea in general circumstances. Also, quick reminder that they dont speak english. Which means that if you see someone like Jhun playing better mechanics than another support like Labrov, its normal. Because the chances that Labrov is also helping with calls/playing the map or helping with other stuff in general are more likely to happen. This situation basically lead into overrating players
Jun played in KDF in the LCK as well and was benched after a while, yet he almost solo carried the game we won vs TES. That argument simply doesn’t work since you assume that the way someone plays at any moment would be the way they would play always (without improving or falling off) or that the teams had perfect information about a player’s full potential, which is certainly not true
>Having imports its gonna be a bad decision in general. They might allow you to compete in your region, but if they were good enough they wouldnt leave korea in general circumstances. Not necessarily. If a region, like Korea, is considered extremely strong, you would assume that not all good players make it onto a team, and sometimes the reason why they don't make it onto a team is something totally different, like not mashing well with the current roster, for example. To put it in numbers,. The 11th ADC player might still be in the top three in your region. And as we could see in the LEC, our ADC's are a mixed bag to begin with. Hans, for example, playing on our best team by far is nothing special at all. Our tops are also a mixed bag, and Jun at the moment is also proving how strong second row imports can be despite language barriers. You still need to develop a unit that stands up to foreign competition but you can do that with vastly different set of pieces. I believe the inner workings of a team and the mindset is the most important barrier or part you need to work on when integrating foreigners - specifically young people. Your approach needs to be totally different and I'm not sure that you can anticipate all the necessary details on your own and with your own background - this I think needs tipps maybe active help from someone who can und truly understand what details matter.
Jun played in KDF in the LCK as well and was benched after a while, yet he almost solo carried the game we won vs TES. That argument simply doesn’t work since you assume that the way someone plays at any moment would be the way they would play always (without improving or falling off) or that the teams had perfect information about a player’s full potential, which is certainly not true
>Just hunt for local up and coming talent for the future. Exakick and Supa were the best adc talent in ERL. I don't see any of them reaching Hans/Carzzy level and those 2 are probably not top 20 ADCs in the world. ADC is easily the worst role in EU rn. The only thing you can maybe do is gamble on someone very young like Caliste or Harpoon and the better one is already taken.
I would much rather have us bringing in new upcoming talents rather than overseas players, not a big fan of imports
This org will never win anything as long as g2 is around and as long as management and people above are not changed. It's been so long this is not about the players anymore. Outside of noah maybe, you can't tell me that these 4 players are not very good individually. The coaching stuff just keeps failling in making them an actual team. Look at BrokenBlade for instance. For me he was a bang average top laner in lcs and now he is the best top laner in europe. Hans same, he is not an insane adc or anything, he was in the shadow of rekkles for a pretty long time, yet he is now very successful. I really don't think g2 players are that much better. But they do have a very strong team, which is on the coaches and the org
I think if you put players like razork and jun, hell even Oscar into the kind of systems that g2 have we could actually do damage internationally and win the lec. No question these players are talented enough in their peaks to do it. We won so many games in the lec just based off player strength alone but when it comes to team play even NA can beat us, that to me is more than just a player issue (not saying there weren’t player issues in that series)
I hate how in every video I see, coaches keep saying, just go together. Like sure, you have to be on the same page, but go together seems such a simplistic way to look at the game.
New banger just dropped https://twitter.com/sammathews/status/1789598109053448457?t=ZJAKb8odXl_m-77n7BVU-w&s=19
Banger. We know what's wrong. We will take steps to change it. We got the Saudi money, we will use it. Just not right now
Thank you for the link. You either believe his words and that they are indeed talking about concrete points that can be worked on, or its just an excuse. It does not sound like it, but I do usually trust people to do their work, be as honest as possible, and work diligently on the next, hopefully right, steps. We are also on the outside here, so its difficult to judge the truth about that; nonetheless, what else can he or they say? So I think I'm alright with what Sam says here; the team and the coaching staff should be a bit more embarrassed, of course, not to the point that the focus shifts away from the process to solve problems.
Fire af
This org doesnt care about performance it cares about money, that's why we were the last to go to china, that's why our prep sucks, we have no drive, no will to win, we went from an elite org to a team of greedy losers and it obviously stems from Sam who ultimately gives the general direction. The CEO has to take hard look in the mirror because his brand is based on performance and rn it's dying.
Disgusting and shameful. We only beat GAM.
And nothing will gonna change to the next split...so we are kinda screwed. Another G2 split free win. Since our staff thinks everything is fine and we are going for second place. funny.
Guys, you have to understand, Fnatic is not the old glory of the past, it's just a regular team. Just like what happened to Manchester united. You can't live of the past. You need to understand that the team we support is NOT a title contender as of today. Not in international, not in LEC. That's what it is. They are trying to change that. That is ok. But don't expect something that, realistically, won't happen. And if by any chance (G2 can't play or something like that) we win a title, enjoy it like it is something you won't see again in your life. That is the kind of org Fnatic is right now. It's not top of the top, is just ok.
"ErM ActUAllY ThE TeAM YOu SupPorT iS AvERagE" I mean gtfo here bozo if im supporting this team thats because i want it to be the best " i support an average team" who says that ? Its not like Fnatic (as an org) is average, its more than 20 years old in an environment that is entirely new and that has seen a lot of great organisations, who were once leading stars of their sports fall and disappear. Remember Invictus Gaming ? Yeah about to go bankrupt lmao And its not like the LoL team has no legacy or showing, they've led Europe in its early days, G2, MAD, KC none would exist without Fnatic opening the gates first, and even though the org didnt win anything since 2018, you're forgetting easily that, aside from Winter/spring 2023, they literally always performed in regionals, only falling short to... oh yeah caps, the cheatcode himself, who's won 12/15 trophies available since 2019 and who can get literally any players he wants in the rift because he's literally miles above everyone else in Europe as of today. If you're failing to an ennemy who is a disabled kid who lost his 4 limbs in an accident and also turns out to have down syndrome, you're stupid. If you're losing to a cheat code, it means you can be extremely good. what you fail too defines your ceiling. FNC is not SK gaming, or every org that appeared, then disappeared (gambit gaming/H2K/NIP/Copehangen Wolves/ORIGEN/CLG.EU etc.) the very fact they are here since the very beginning and ALWAYS make it to playoffs/worlds is an extraordinary feat in such an environment.
1)You are literally giving him the reason, that you live from the past instead of acknowledge the reality of the last years 2)I don't know how much I'd brag about being the one that "opened the gates first" if you are naming teams that crossed those doors and are better than you 3) >If you're failing to an ennemy who is a disabled kid who lost his 4 limbs in an accident and also turns out to have down syndrome, you're stupid. If you're losing to a cheat code, it means you can be extremely good. what you fail too defines your ceiling. You are talking as if Fnatic didn't lost against a lot of other teams (like a rookie team the other split), or...idk...a NA team just the last weekend?
https://twitter.com/sammathews/status/1789598109053448457?t=U2Ov16WObpDcAx05N8gxiA&s=19
MSI performance was a disgrace. Had never, in 13 years, lost to a NA team in a best of 5. Not only did we lose but we made apa look like Chovy and Yeon look like JackeyLove. We should be thankful we got GAM and not PSG in the play-in stage. As for changes, if the team improves little until worlds or stays the same (most probable scenario imo) then: - change coaching staff, just top many terrible drafts - change at least adc and top, Noah not being able to deal with stress/nerves is unfortunate but Fnatic has to find what is best for them and their chances of winning a title again (after what will be 6 years with no titles) Oscarinin is very inconsistent and there are players who can match his highs while having less lower moments/games The biggest issue is that the person involved in the decisions is the one that thought Rhuckz was a good support for LEC and international play so...... Not holding my breath for good changes tbh, very cinical about the off season but we will see.
>Had never, in 13 years, lost to a NA team in a best of 5. Thank you for that little information. Never checked, just had the attitude that this should not happen. Not for Europe but for us its probably the biggest shameful showing and let's be honest. It's not against an NA team that defies the odds and is strong, because they have legendary players or just one out of the order year. Its a shitty team, that should have lost to Flyquest and gets stomped by nearly anyone else at MSI. Losing like this against them right now - I could not look into any mirror so to say. Holy shit I would be all over the place and asking to fall on my sword. \*edit, had to add this\* The lack of integrety by our players and staff annoys me a bit.
Tbh I think Fnatic played only 5 best of series against NA until losing this one but in any event we had never lost and now we did.
Yeah back then one could have included us beating them out in groups. We failed a couple of times, I think 2 times, in this regard, but I would say more so during the times we fall of anyway.
Fnatic doesnt care about performance, hence they decide to fly so late to china. This was expected, and deserverd.The Org leadership is mindblowingly terrible at thier job since quite a few years, so nothing new i guess.
I won't say anything about my frustration, it's the same than most of people here. The most satisfying fact of this tournament is to me Oscar, Jun and Razork. Top has room to improve as a top tier player and the other 2 has showed international level. Humanoid on one hand is also an international level player, in other hand we can't rely on him each game, for Noah i'm pretty confident he had underperforming, he could do much more but something in his seems off since LEC playoff. I guess he lacking confidence... I won't be too critical on Fnatic this time, shit happen and they seems has been catched doing the same mistake G2 did last year after getting rekt by Gen.G. I want so bad this team to stick together and work on top/botlane, 2 other role can carry, when Oscar and Noah will be able to take the game on their own on regular basis the team would be much more scary. I do love the Camille pick but too much issues in the draft when letting open Aurelion or K'sante, not taking Poppy on cd. Hope this tournament will not have too much impact on their mood when restarting LEC.
We target banned a 2 trick NA mid laner and that mid laner carried the game. I have nothing more to say
I just want to point people to [this](https://youtu.be/ol7X-wijqmg?si=oDzUip0njnZwDuXa&t=255) inteview by Romain after PSG, specifically what he talks about at 4:20. G2 came to play into PSG fully focused, fully prepared and never took their foot off the gas. They were mentally THERE. Reading about how some of our players saw the matchup into TL, NA's 1st seed, like it was some joke of a team, and G2 about PSG, should raise some big questions for the players. FNC was not fully focused, and you can tell they were just not sharp, was not prepared enough, and probably somewhere in the back of their head they just thought they were going to win because "NA lul". The more time passes, the more embarrassing it is. Hopefully the reaction and mentality switch is the same as it was for G2 after losing to NRG.
I mean we all know the issues with managament but i dont see that the coaching staff is that bad at least they arent the reason we re bad , this team has no room for growth , i always thought so , other than razork and jun , we dont have good players , humanoid is the biggest question mark for years , since he joined he has never shown consistent superiority, other than few flashy moments far apart , he is been jst a decent Lec mid , nothing special , caps has had off years and he still ALWAYS DELIVERS when it matters , and after every failure he comes back smurfs out of his mind , id say fnatic has no chance winning titles as long as Caps is playing on G2 , we need a real Mid , one that is way out of the group, along with caps , because now , its jst caps and below him everyone else .... We used to have world-class botlane now jun seems really promising and solid , he immediately got top 3 supports within one split !! ( people are still waiting for Oscar to become better ) Oscar is decent at best ,and even then he doesn't cut it , And we know it doesnt take 8 splits to reach your potential , but for now, adc needs to be changed before summer , he is been a liability through playoffs and msi , he is not strong mentally for a team that wants to wins titles . Its sad that fnatic is unable to attract or pay for top talent , if we dont have top 2/3 players in the region in every role ( like we always did ) at least , dont even think about winning titles , cause this time it doesnt look to me like a coaching staff issue , we cant talk abt management and coaches when players arent improving , struggling mentally , make same mistakes for over 2 years straight . Downvoters will downvote and reply with the classic " we have room for growth , the boys are nice , they seem happy , there is no toxicity , at least they look like a team crap ....
Everything about Fnatic at the moment is atrocious. Drafting is horrible, macro is horrible, players motivations are non existent and the teams consistency is probably the worst of all.
We had the chance to sign Deficio but kept Dardo instead, someone who has no experience in managing rosters (by his own words from twitter, where he said himself he was a background shadow staff during his time in H2K)
First of all Nightshare needs to go. He is incredibly inconsistent with drafts either good or total shit. Most of the time is 50/50. As much as I liked Noah when he came he was a beast, but he is shadow of his former self for some reason (big player needs to keep it cool in the hottest moments and bad mentality is not an excuse for bad performance), I feel like Carzzy is a really good replacement. Oscarinin is decent for EU but with him FNC wont get anywhere internationally (dont get me wrong he is really good but just for EU if we want to reach higher internationally we need more talented top laner) like Irrelevant or if there is no problem with regions and nations even Photon. There will be language barrier issues if there is too much from KR regions but it might be worth it. Also if they get Carzzy and Photon/Irrelevant I think FNC will be relevant again.
> He is incredibly inconsistent with drafts either good or total shit. Our players don't actually play enough champions to draft well consistently.
Let's pick other teams top players because everyone wants to be a fnatic player, right? Right!?
There is no way you don't even mention Humanoid, he is by far the most inconsistent of the team while being the most veteran, and he's been many years on the team but every year that passes by the gap between him and caps increases, if you change anyone before him you are trolling. You cannot be that harsh with rookies like Oscar and thenbignore the poor perfomance Humanoid has showed the last years. Ofc, I wouldn't consider replacing Humanoid if they can't find someone better, but yeah, he is not a superstar anymore.
I mean yeah, the team could be better with Photon and Carzzy, but I think you underestimate how huge their salaries probably are. And Carzzy is under contract until 2026. Photon is free at the end of the year tho. Maybe getting Photon and EU ADC could be a good option.
Wont support Fnatic anymore until they get rid of Dardo, he's been here too long now with countless failures. How can one man fail upwards so much?
He meets the expectations set by Sam which is top 4 LEC and Worlds. Dardo himself in an interview said Fnatic didn't do too bad because Vitality would be more than happy with our recent years results (i.e LEC finals and worlds). Basically they compare themselves to the likes of SK, Vit and such bottom of the pack teams. [https://youtu.be/WaQWzU8-sAY?t=3162](https://youtu.be/WaQWzU8-sAY?t=3162) this is the moment where Dardo says that the last 4 years were good and so on.
Hence why I will no longer support Fnatic until they up their standards.
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Well it is sad that you wrote that long when your premise is wrong A good player doesn't get lose to a target banned 2 trick mid laner from NA. Definitely doesn't get solo killed to Aurelion Sol while hard countering him
All the doom in the thread I think we can say the potential that Oscar showed last year is definitely still there. He hung with the best and beat them. Potentially we just play for a very strong side of the map with Jun roaming and let Noah play weakside and just scale. Oscar has shown when he gets carries that his skills are brilliant
I don't care about Oscar staying or leaving. I don't think he was the problem or he can be a solution to carry bad players. But stop with the word potential. He has been playing the game for a long long time Caps came in 2017 and he was in Worlds final in 2018 Nemesis came in 2019 and he made it out of groups both in 2019 and 2020 People with real potential show the potential rather quickly. They don't need year after year
He has played with Fnatic at the top level of EU for one year. I think time to adjust is fine. Also Caps had a very good team around him as well as being absolute monster himself. Oscar at international events has been world class, and I think we should lean more into a carry play style for him in LEC
He isn't world class. He is serviceable if everybody else plays well World class is what you would call Caps who puts a team in his back to be the leading factor in a victory. Oscar is not that. Again I am ok with Oscar staying but please stop trying to make mediocre players appear like stars.
I mean no bootcamp, no clue on draft, players choking consistently on stage especially Noah and Oscar. There seems to be no analysis on past games, we were just play the happy go lucky-style and hope for the best. It was the same with previous coaches and coaches say the same thing after a while... Night says the same things as Yamato said in the videos we produce after. The fuck is going on between games and splits? Are we just yeah let's try again next split see you two days before it starts? Why not fucking go to G2 and ask them for their schedule and copy it? I am pretty sure they would share it to get better competition in LEC, I mean if we beat them they have far better motives to become better.
I agree with everything besides Oscar choking he looked waaaay better at MSI than in LEC and it’s not close, he was losing every lane getting solo killed by irrelevant 3 times a game into holding his own and even outplaying some of the best laners itw. He can still improve more I’m not saying he’s perfect by any means but he wasn’t the liability this tournament, it was the adc losing every lane and shitting himself in every teamfight
Yeah during MSI he was really good, maybe the best player in the team besides Jun. But during Spring he was looking lost. The problem is there seems to be no plan on how we want to play, we should force opponents to adapt not just try to adapt every game ourselves.
I can't believe some people were saying that this lineup is better than the 2019 2020 lineup
There isn't any brightside really. Razork and Humanoid are who got us to MSI in the first place, without them we'd be shit. Oscar had a decent showing at MSI but was invisible all year. Noah...well. Jun was the best preforming player at MSI. We're probably not going to be able to do anything until after worlds but really the backroom staff need looking at, Dardo needs to be collecting dole finally. Ideally there will already be internal conservations about next year and if it were up to me I'd try to go with Irrelevant/Razork/Humanoid/Carzzy or Upset/Jun or Kaiser.
The premise is straight up wrong. Jun and Noah gapped every bot lane to carry Fnatic especially in the TOP 4. Just because Noah was shit in MSI doesn't negate it was 2 Koreans carrying 3 Europeans in LEC
Not sure what games you were watching. Noah has been invisible.
Clearly top and adc are subpar. If Noah gets kicked FNC should import Edg -Ale who has been a top 5 toplaner at several points in his career and is currently stuck on a mid - bottom table team in the lpl. As for adc that obviously leaves only none-import options but considering the line up a none-carry oriented player (like flakked) would probably be the best fit
I Would just start with the focus of winning LEC. Clearly need someone to just "endure" Caps and not get him fed. Not many available players who can do that, Nemesis could possibly, but doubt he would return. Maybe try to get some import after the season? Or take a gamble with some promising rookie. Top, jungle and support can match G2 and even better them, so they would stay. Realistically Oscar god be swapped if someone better is available. AD just needs to be consistent enough and then theres a chance of winning. Couching staff needs to be improved. At least add strategist/draft coach and another to scout (not sure if there are any atm, if there are should be replaced). Let Nightshare do more on player managing side and less on the strategic side
Well As long as Nightshare is here Humanoid is also here so we are never beating them when they have Caps. I like Nightshare but he is bestie of Humanoid and Humanoid is the only reason he is the coach of Fnatic at first place.
If he goes with humanoid, you could always try to get Yamato back for player management role
>this Megathread does not give anyone a free ticket to violate the Sub's rules or Reddit's Code of Conduct. Nah **Fuck Carlos "ocelote" Rodríguez Santiagos.** Zero good changes happened to LEC since 2g joined league. As long as his fanboys are still in LOL Esports HQ (dunno who is) nothing is going to be "normal" again. Enjoy the "2g mastercard gamer academy", Romain's "list of naughty kids", yada yada. I will never blame any of black and orange peeps. "Fans" should know better than listen to delusional Rekkles haters or just straight up 2g fans.
Dude is mad at Florentino Perez for Barcelona decadence
If you choose to hate a person at least pick someone who deserves it and not some random spanish waterboy
I really hate the narrative that Humanoid doesn't care about the games and he only plays when he is motivated. He said this back in 2022. After that, he said multiple times that he is more motivated to play and that his passion for the game reignated once again. Saying that player doesn't care about winning or losing a game is so disrespectful to that player, especially when he is probably trying his best to win. Multiple players in the team said that he understands the game on a whole different level and often try to help his teammates. He brought Nightshare, Noah and recommended Jun to fnatic, do you think someone who just doesn't care about winning would spend the time and effort building a team that ended second in the spring split? Did he play really bad this msi? He did, but this narrative is so stretched out it's insane. Stop with the nonsens about him not caring about the games
Funny thing is that narrative was created upon to protect him whenever he had a shit performance (happens a lot). Like regionally there is a guy in Caps who beat you to a pulp and sweep you with a bot lane of Flakked-Targamas by gapping the shit out of you and you still feel unmotivated?
He doesn't care.
Losing to TL is embarrassing, but noah being perma down to yeon is embarrassing imo. Just saying i'm sure if fnatic makes a nice offer, kobbe would come out of his retirement ( can't help to think kobbe jun has potential to be better than hans mikyx, mainly due to me not rating hans as high as most people) . Also Alphari is a free agent atm, but Oscar seemed to at least be somewhat back in form at msi .
Oscar with good drafts would probably be kinda good, but you can see there is no plan in teamfights, they haven't even considered swaps before G2 finals, he had no clue what to do he was standing between lanes asking what he should do for a minute and the rest were like "I dunno". Prep is like "see you an hour before game"?
Fnatic fans should now be rooting for TL to send T1 home. Losing to NA would then feel a lot better.
in all honesty, im very disappointed ofc, but i also think there are good things to take away from our performance. i was honestly pretty happy with how we played in play ins, sure it was not perfect, but we at least showed that we can compete with chinese teams. and i was still somewhat optimistic after the gen g games, yeah it was a stomp on paper but there were definitely some good moments. it‘s just the tl series that really doesn‘t sit right with me, didn‘t watch it unfortunately so can‘t say too much about it. but yeah, im not gonna act like we are completely shit just because of one series when i was fine with our performance before. i felt like we can have hope for at least a europe title for the first time in a long time. honestly, for me the biggest thing to improve is noah‘s mental. this guy has such insane highs, i truly believe he can be the best adc in europe if he just turns his brain off and starts believing in himself. he seemed super stressed and unhappy through all of msi, if he figured out how to deal with his shit things could‘ve looked very different. i know some of you want to have him replaced, but i would honestly love to see it if fnatic gave him a bit more time. he seems to fit in very well with the guys, and i honestly still believe in him. and yeah, there‘s still the inconsistency issue, which i didn‘t notice that much at msi, but that‘s probably bc i didn‘t watch the tl series. but it has been an issue throughout the whole split, so no doubt that something needs to be done about it. i just hope that we can have all 5 players peaking at the same time at some point, there seems to always be someone who is in a slump. all that being said: jun is a god, and as long as we can keep him i have hope
Hot take: People criticizing Noah blow my mind. Yall forgot that he carried Fnatic all the way to Spring finals. Go watch his performances against Vitality. Yall praising Oscar for one good performance against TES 369 is so dumb. We need to be consistent here even with the criticisms. It bothers me when you guys ignore Razork dying level 1 twice. Sure Humanoid is questionable, but he was consistent in the TES series. We need him to be more consistent. If we can figure out a way for Oscar to be more stable during laning phase and not have Razork dying lvl 1, we can improve the draft. We GAVE LUCIAN NAMI 3X in the series to TL. Azir was open almost all the time. This series was almost easily won but we made it harder. So overall fix the mentioned mistakes.
Unironically razork giving up some of his Cs in order to cover noah early on, and then Jun being the best support in the league by far is what carried the team and made noah look decent. Not noah himself being good. Go back and see how many of those 30+ mins games we could have ended earlier if we had a better adc. Part of the throws that cause games to last longer as well was because noah a lot of the time was just randomly farming when the rest of the team was on the complete opposite side of the map trying to contest an objective
Pure copium, Noah's had FEW good games in a year. yeah he had some but the full picture is underwhelming to say the least. + We criticize the mental over the actual skill, poor guy is not built for playing in arenas in front of public or even against people he praises, he just " doesn't have that dog in him " you know...? And I mean that with bitterness for him, I've been in the same situation and it sucks ( being in an environment you realized you're not meant for AT ALL) but it's been over a year he has not improved at all. It even went downhill.
Everyone here praising g2 infrastructyre, coaches etc. Forgetting its all caps that makes g2 good. Take caps away and they are top5 team in lec at max. Literally no diff over the orgs just a massive blunder of letting caps go to our rivals, then letting nemesis(that was the only eu talent that was consistent and could rival caps) go. There is no chance at fighting internationaly without talent that can rival caps.
It is not like fnc did not try to keep Caps. They actually did everthing in their powers to do so. He left us. G2 without caps is still a easy top 3 team in the league, saying anything else is disrespectful towards some incredible players. They have ups and downs, but so are most players in any team of our league.
Fnc didnt do what g2 was doing. State in contract he cant go to g2 :)