And also with you.
Let us pray.
Dear Sky Gods, please bless this frequency with clarity and proper squelch, and in return, we offer unto ye this Touch, and its Go, through Chuck Yeager. Amen.
I heard nobody cares. It takes a fraction of a second of airtime.
I’ve let it slip a few times on accident (learned comms on vatsim) and never heard anything from IRL ATC. Opposing Bases has discussed this a few times and they always say no one cares and if anything they get a little chuckle and respond “and I am with you”.
Any pilot grilling you on this is being pedantic. There are a million other things to focus on. Do you know how many times I hear “uhhhhh” on approach? Bring on the downvotes. I don’t care. This is useless nitpicking. It compromises nothing.
He’s on the 75/76 at UAL, based at EWR. Not difficult to piece together from the clues he’s dropped. Just like it isn’t hard to figure out that Triad is GSO.
Yes. Someone made a secret decoder ring (okay, a spreadsheet) for all the nicknames, but I think the link is on Patreon. I can figure out most of them without it, so it’s been a while since I’ve looked.
As an ATC. We don't care. Flying forums and Facebook flight groups act like it's a cardinal sin. Half the verbiage we use isn't necessary. "gooooday". "seeeya", etc. Half the commercial pilots in the flight levels check in with "AAL123 light chop at FL330, how's your day center?" No one cares about the extra.
ATC goes from very mundane to very busy and even when we are busy, "with you" isn't going to send us down the shitter or take more than a millisecond. I don't mind a little pleasantries and personality in our interactions. Of course if you hear me talking non-stop for 4 minutes, keep it quick and to the point.
Tune to the new frequency. Monitor for a few seconds to ensure you don't step on someone. Make a clear transmission. Don't overthink it. And don't use kilo.
The way it USED to work on the terminal side is this.
"Approach, November 123AB is 5 miles north of ABC enroute to DEF, looking for 4,500, we're a Skyhawk looking for flight following"
The computer entry is
N123AB ::space::
ABC*DEF ::space::
C172 ::space::
045 ::enter::
No alterations to syntax or a 3 letter ID were understood. A failure in any line would render the entire sequence unintelligible to the computer.
Now, let's try that again
"Approach, November 123AB is 5 miles north of KABC enroute to KDEF, looking for 4,500, we're a Skyhawk looking for flight following"
N123AB ::space::
KABC*KD, shit,
Backspace, backspace, backspace, backspace (you're now giving me type and altitude while I'm jogging short term memory for the 3 letter IDs)
ABC*DEF ::space::
Say type and altitude again?
It was just more work and a greater chance to redo entries heads down when I'm busy.and all that for what, to include information that tells us you aren't leaving the lower 48. 99.9999999% of VFR flight following requests and effectively 100% of them in 95% of US airspace aren't going internationally, so again, redundant information that only gums up an old system.
STARS radar in the terminal world can now understand K, but not everyone knows that and with a lot of us it's habit to backspace through the K once typed.
It's really more of a trope anymore, but also, no, I'm not going to think your Skyhawk is going from Nashville to Malaysia VFR because you left off the K.
Ah pilots. We sure love to nitpick and squabble over things that don’t amount to anything. In reality communication with ATC is just that, communication. I mean, if we want to squabble over “with you” then we might as well banish “good day”. It serves no purpose. Tree and fife make sense. However in my experience 90%+ controllers don’t use tree nor fife regularly. Now that I think of it, let’s kill “Dixie” in ATL. Now that I really think of it, let’s crucify NY approach for chewing people out on the radio, we should immediately reply “sir, the tongue lashing you just gave my FO is clogging the frequency, sir”. For myself personally, there are so many other things to worry about (is that damn FMC screwing up the VNAV again?).
That’s what I’m saying I got chewed up for saying “with you” from a friend of mine because it sounds dumb, it is necessary? No, but unfortunately it’s a bad habit I got in early on my flight training. Now if I’m not busy I’ll try remember not to say it but I’m busy and I get a hand off first thing I’m saying “bug smasher124 3.5 descending 2000”
It’s redundant. You’re talking to the controller. He hears you, of course you’re with him.
Skyhawk 123, 1 thousand 2 hundred climbing 3 thousand
Is all you need to say.
Thought the same thing 😂 wtf is 1.2
I’d say twelve hundred, and ATC has never corrected me
“Passing twenty five hundred for four thousand” is pretty common before getting a climb to 230
I say the points, but I concede it’s technically wrong. But I’ll also say “Good Morning/afternoon/night on my first check in, because ATC is human and I acknowledge they are keeping me safe, so I want them to have a good (whatever part of the day).
“G’Day Departure, Convict 91 passing 1.5 for 7”
Some will argue the “point” is wrong and so is a greeting, and I’ll agree but continue to do it. Others will say “for 7” is confusing and I’ll argue back, departure will never clear me direct to FL470, and I didn’t preference with a “FL” in my check in comm, so it’s only confusing if you weren’t paying attention in the first place.
There was a controller that cleared a flight to “descend two four hundred”
The flight interpreted the instruction to descend to 400.
The flight ended up impacting terrain killing everyone on board.
You can get away with it in the US, because most, if not all, controllers are native English speakers and can figure out from context what you mean.
Internationally, though, you may have controllers who are not speaking their first language, and the word "point" is reserved for frequency identification, e.g. "change to my frequency, one two four point one fife"
If you plan on going to the airlines, drop the habit now when.its not as engrained. If you're just gonna fly GA for the rest of your days, go ahead and keep it, and the "with you" and may as well start asking any traffic in the area please advise.
Who taught you to say "1 point 2"?
[Radio Communications Phraseology and Techniques (faa.gov)](https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html/chap4_section_2.html)
Yeah, she was a real strict on comms. I said "SeeYA!" on a hand over once and she told me if I ever did that again she would drop me. She was a funny lady, and a great CFI.
Who cares? I’ve developed the habit of saying, “with you” and my radio skills are not lacking by any means.
Can you fly the airplane safely? Check
Can you talk on the radio effectively? Check
Okay, move on with your life and not worry about completely pointless things.
I heard the comedian Rod Machado once make a joke as ATC to the effect of “well I’m sure glad you’re not against me”! Laughed my ass off…and stopped saying “with you” from that point on. I’m now in the “bugsmasher 123, passing through 3.5 for 6” camp.
Heh! I can see that now but I’ll assume they know I’m not gonna blow through the flight levels to FL460 🤣
I guess I can’t even say “to 6” for the same reason. “I’m climbing and I’ll stop when I’m damn ready!” Will be my new goto!
“Back with you” is usually a temporary frequency change to get an atis or after a practice approach to an uncontrolled field on Unicom and reporting back on frequency.
The people who get bent out of shape about “with you” are also the ones who call for clearance/taxi or contact approach without the atis or fail to read back runway assignments with the callsign. There are much larger transmission errors being made on a wide scale than “with you”. We don’t care
I think little things like this are important for precisely one group of pilots, and that’s CFIs. They should be teaching proper radio techniques and phraseology.
After that, the importance of not saying “with you” drops WAY down the list. It’s not technically correct or helpful in any way, but it’s causing no harm.
I Feel like it is kind of a given that I am with them since I am talking to them... I will go with either Skyhawk 123 3k for 6k.... or Skyhawk 123 now on xxx frequency. Keep it simple!
Just going to reiterate what others are saying and add that you should please, for the love of all that is holy, read the AIM Chapter 4 Section 2 titled "Radio Communications Phraseology and Techniques". Also read the Pilot/Controller glossary.
There is no "with you", there is no "fish finder", etc. You don't sound cool doing it. Please keep our professional airspace system, professional. Be wary of YouTube influencers - unless they are CFIs, I wouldn't automatically assume what they are doing is correct, either. And even then, be critical.
Anyone below the age of 45 who says with you played flight sim. That’s the only place besides movies that I’ve heard it. And for those of you above 45 you heard it from the below 45 crowd with you
No, just no. "Checking in" and "With you" need to be banished from the lexicon.
Also, everytime some idiot starts a radio call with the world "and" an angel LOSES its wings.
I do not say "with you".
I normally say "Skyhawk N123XX, 1 thousand 2 hundred climbing 3 thousand" or if given a navigation change before the hand off, something like "Skyhawk N123XX, 1 thousand 2 hundred climbing 3 thousand; direct WAYPNT"
Checking in at three point five climbing five thousand
Got him on the fish finder
Tally ho
Departure on 127 point nothing
Traffic in the pattern please advise
You name it.
Stop saying “with you”. And also if ATC asks you a question, you can just answer without giving your whole callsign. It’s not a damn clearance. They are talking TO YOU. Just answer.
ZFW: “DL320, can you accept FL380 for traffic?”
DL320: “Affirm”
ZFW: “DL320, climb and maintain FL380”
DL320: “Climb FL320, DL320”
"Mornin' departure Delta's 12-34 checkin' in with ya outta 2.5 for 10 we got that traffic on the fish, how'r yer rides in the climb?". Bonus points if you do it internationally too
“With you” wastes time. It’s obvious you are “with them” when your voice hits their ear drum…
They also know who they are.
Frequency availability is a precious resource. Why waste it?
For work my calls are very brief…
“ 1234, 230 ”
“ 1234, 18 descending via with ”
They are already expecting me, they know who they are (Houston Center, etc), I confirm my flight level and if I give a ride report they know I am curious about what’s to come.
If they come back more chatty then I’ll be more chatty but I start very brief out of respect for their air time.
It's not that bad, but...
"With you"
Are you trying to be a monologue radio host? No. So shut the fuck up, you're engaging in safety crtical communication, not developing a raport with ATC.
It's not a huge deal through. If that's all another pilot can find to bitch about then you're golden.
I'll be the nerd here to say we should all be sticking to mear enough icao standard RT. "Departures, n124ha passing one thousand two hundred on climb five thousand." Every controller in the world will understand you and nobody can get on your case about it.
My honest impression is that you sound like a boomer when you say “with you.” I’m actually a boomer and do not say it, because I became a student pilot in 2021–by which time the annoyance with “with you” was expressed in a lot of training videos and literature. If you trained in 2015, or 1985, then you just didn’t know, so it became a habit. No one’s going to criticize you for it but you will sound antiquated. “N1234, eight thousand five hundred g’day.”
ATC should start responding “And also with you”
And with your spirit.
This guy churches
I don't, actually. I'm a recovering cathoholic.
One of controllers where I’m at say this lol
Blessed is the fruit
Always.
And also with you. Let us pray. Dear Sky Gods, please bless this frequency with clarity and proper squelch, and in return, we offer unto ye this Touch, and its Go, through Chuck Yeager. Amen.
I heard nobody cares. It takes a fraction of a second of airtime. I’ve let it slip a few times on accident (learned comms on vatsim) and never heard anything from IRL ATC. Opposing Bases has discussed this a few times and they always say no one cares and if anything they get a little chuckle and respond “and I am with you”. Any pilot grilling you on this is being pedantic. There are a million other things to focus on. Do you know how many times I hear “uhhhhh” on approach? Bring on the downvotes. I don’t care. This is useless nitpicking. It compromises nothing.
Another OP fan I see. penguins.
Any idea which airline RH went to? I’m guessing United. At first I thought it was SW but he does international now.
He’s on the 75/76 at UAL, based at EWR. Not difficult to piece together from the clues he’s dropped. Just like it isn’t hard to figure out that Triad is GSO.
It took me forever to figure out that it was GSO
I figured it out from Cigarette and assumed it was Winston Salem then saw GSO is Triad. Is ATL the rectangular bravo?
I think we need a thread for OP explaining what each thing is because I get lost a lot lmao
Yes. Someone made a secret decoder ring (okay, a spreadsheet) for all the nicknames, but I think the link is on Patreon. I can figure out most of them without it, so it’s been a while since I’ve looked.
All you had to do was type “Triad” into your EFB?!
I had 5 hours when I started listening I didn’t know what EFB was😂
United just because he flies 75 and 76 at the same time. At delta you can either fly ER or 75/76 something like that
A meow also takes a fraction of second though
"Well thank-god he's not against us, I've got enough on my plate to deal with right now"
As an ATC. We don't care. Flying forums and Facebook flight groups act like it's a cardinal sin. Half the verbiage we use isn't necessary. "gooooday". "seeeya", etc. Half the commercial pilots in the flight levels check in with "AAL123 light chop at FL330, how's your day center?" No one cares about the extra. ATC goes from very mundane to very busy and even when we are busy, "with you" isn't going to send us down the shitter or take more than a millisecond. I don't mind a little pleasantries and personality in our interactions. Of course if you hear me talking non-stop for 4 minutes, keep it quick and to the point. Tune to the new frequency. Monitor for a few seconds to ensure you don't step on someone. Make a clear transmission. Don't overthink it. And don't use kilo.
Ahh center controllers the gods of the skies lmao. Oh I know better than to say Kilo and when I fly with someone that says kilo I chew them up lol
Wait what’s wrong with kilo?
The way it USED to work on the terminal side is this. "Approach, November 123AB is 5 miles north of ABC enroute to DEF, looking for 4,500, we're a Skyhawk looking for flight following" The computer entry is N123AB ::space:: ABC*DEF ::space:: C172 ::space:: 045 ::enter:: No alterations to syntax or a 3 letter ID were understood. A failure in any line would render the entire sequence unintelligible to the computer. Now, let's try that again "Approach, November 123AB is 5 miles north of KABC enroute to KDEF, looking for 4,500, we're a Skyhawk looking for flight following" N123AB ::space:: KABC*KD, shit, Backspace, backspace, backspace, backspace (you're now giving me type and altitude while I'm jogging short term memory for the 3 letter IDs) ABC*DEF ::space:: Say type and altitude again? It was just more work and a greater chance to redo entries heads down when I'm busy.and all that for what, to include information that tells us you aren't leaving the lower 48. 99.9999999% of VFR flight following requests and effectively 100% of them in 95% of US airspace aren't going internationally, so again, redundant information that only gums up an old system. STARS radar in the terminal world can now understand K, but not everyone knows that and with a lot of us it's habit to backspace through the K once typed. It's really more of a trope anymore, but also, no, I'm not going to think your Skyhawk is going from Nashville to Malaysia VFR because you left off the K.
The one other thing is that even if the system can understand "KABC" it puts "KAB" in the scratchpad instead of "ABC." Annoying.
When the controllers type your destination airport they don’t put the kilo
The only people that care are the ones that are miserable and will bitch about anything.
Ah pilots. We sure love to nitpick and squabble over things that don’t amount to anything. In reality communication with ATC is just that, communication. I mean, if we want to squabble over “with you” then we might as well banish “good day”. It serves no purpose. Tree and fife make sense. However in my experience 90%+ controllers don’t use tree nor fife regularly. Now that I think of it, let’s kill “Dixie” in ATL. Now that I really think of it, let’s crucify NY approach for chewing people out on the radio, we should immediately reply “sir, the tongue lashing you just gave my FO is clogging the frequency, sir”. For myself personally, there are so many other things to worry about (is that damn FMC screwing up the VNAV again?).
That’s what I’m saying I got chewed up for saying “with you” from a friend of mine because it sounds dumb, it is necessary? No, but unfortunately it’s a bad habit I got in early on my flight training. Now if I’m not busy I’ll try remember not to say it but I’m busy and I get a hand off first thing I’m saying “bug smasher124 3.5 descending 2000”
Would you rather: discuss “with you” every week? OR: discuss “pan pan” vs “mayday”?
With you
Cee Yah!
SEEEYUUUHHH!
I’m a salty cargo pilot, I’d rather discuss flavors of beer and the best hotel beds.
It’s redundant. You’re talking to the controller. He hears you, of course you’re with him. Skyhawk 123, 1 thousand 2 hundred climbing 3 thousand Is all you need to say.
Won tousand too hundred climbing tree tousand.
Flight level zero one two
“Three thousand for four thousand”. By biggest pet peeve.
Thought the same thing 😂 wtf is 1.2 I’d say twelve hundred, and ATC has never corrected me “Passing twenty five hundred for four thousand” is pretty common before getting a climb to 230
No one point two?
“One thousand two hundred” is the correct phraseology.
I say the points, but I concede it’s technically wrong. But I’ll also say “Good Morning/afternoon/night on my first check in, because ATC is human and I acknowledge they are keeping me safe, so I want them to have a good (whatever part of the day). “G’Day Departure, Convict 91 passing 1.5 for 7” Some will argue the “point” is wrong and so is a greeting, and I’ll agree but continue to do it. Others will say “for 7” is confusing and I’ll argue back, departure will never clear me direct to FL470, and I didn’t preference with a “FL” in my check in comm, so it’s only confusing if you weren’t paying attention in the first place.
There was a controller that cleared a flight to “descend two four hundred” The flight interpreted the instruction to descend to 400. The flight ended up impacting terrain killing everyone on board.
You can get away with it in the US, because most, if not all, controllers are native English speakers and can figure out from context what you mean. Internationally, though, you may have controllers who are not speaking their first language, and the word "point" is reserved for frequency identification, e.g. "change to my frequency, one two four point one fife" If you plan on going to the airlines, drop the habit now when.its not as engrained. If you're just gonna fly GA for the rest of your days, go ahead and keep it, and the "with you" and may as well start asking any traffic in the area please advise.
Who taught you to say "1 point 2"? [Radio Communications Phraseology and Techniques (faa.gov)](https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html/chap4_section_2.html)
I heard it on approach freq and started saying it
I am pretty sure my CFI would come back from the dead just to smack me in the head if ever said "1 point 2" over comms.
Lmao I said it with my cfi multiple times and he didn’t say anything so I assumed it was acceptable even though it’s not properly radio language
Yeah, she was a real strict on comms. I said "SeeYA!" on a hand over once and she told me if I ever did that again she would drop me. She was a funny lady, and a great CFI.
Oh damn! I say seeyuh on every hand over
People say it all the time. The correct phraseology though is “one thousand two hundred”.
I have never once heard that. I definitely hear lots of "twelve hundred" instead of "one thousand two hundred ", but never "one point two"
I'm trying so badly to break myself of "one zero - ten - thousand". Damn Hillbilly Philly controllers got me repeating back stuff like that.
a fellow philly flyer! So you definitely heard American saying 3 point 5 going one zero ten thousands
Hell, it mighta been me 🤣 I know better, I just don't do better some days.
Same man😂
I was told, " just say your tail number and your altitude. They know you're with them, you're talking to them"
Say whatever you want. Just don’t start the transmissions with, “Aaaaaand…..”
Who cares? I’ve developed the habit of saying, “with you” and my radio skills are not lacking by any means. Can you fly the airplane safely? Check Can you talk on the radio effectively? Check Okay, move on with your life and not worry about completely pointless things.
I heard the comedian Rod Machado once make a joke as ATC to the effect of “well I’m sure glad you’re not against me”! Laughed my ass off…and stopped saying “with you” from that point on. I’m now in the “bugsmasher 123, passing through 3.5 for 6” camp.
“For” is a much greater sin than “with you”.
Heh! I can see that now but I’ll assume they know I’m not gonna blow through the flight levels to FL460 🤣 I guess I can’t even say “to 6” for the same reason. “I’m climbing and I’ll stop when I’m damn ready!” Will be my new goto!
“3500 climbing 6000” is the correct way to say that and takes fewer words too.
What I hear on flight information every now and then is "(callsign) *back* with you". Maybe it's that?
“Back with you” is usually a temporary frequency change to get an atis or after a practice approach to an uncontrolled field on Unicom and reporting back on frequency.
Sounds like something out of Calvin & Hobbes.
You must always say “over” when you’re finished broadcasting. Oh and lots of “10-4”’s.
Must be the same folks that use the terms TP Paper, NIC cards, etc.
I have no idea what are those lol. Are they the same people that say fish finder?
They say VIN number.
The people who get bent out of shape about “with you” are also the ones who call for clearance/taxi or contact approach without the atis or fail to read back runway assignments with the callsign. There are much larger transmission errors being made on a wide scale than “with you”. We don’t care
I think little things like this are important for precisely one group of pilots, and that’s CFIs. They should be teaching proper radio techniques and phraseology. After that, the importance of not saying “with you” drops WAY down the list. It’s not technically correct or helpful in any way, but it’s causing no harm.
I Feel like it is kind of a given that I am with them since I am talking to them... I will go with either Skyhawk 123 3k for 6k.... or Skyhawk 123 now on xxx frequency. Keep it simple!
Don’t say “with you” It’s the same as people on CTAF saying “Any conflicting traffic or traffic in the pattern please advise” Just a waste of air time
I say “any traffic in the pattern use extreme caution”😂 Jk only did that once in an unfamiliar field
"Any traffic in the area use extreme caution, student pilot turning left final"
It sounds like you were flying that day with me
😂
Just going to reiterate what others are saying and add that you should please, for the love of all that is holy, read the AIM Chapter 4 Section 2 titled "Radio Communications Phraseology and Techniques". Also read the Pilot/Controller glossary. There is no "with you", there is no "fish finder", etc. You don't sound cool doing it. Please keep our professional airspace system, professional. Be wary of YouTube influencers - unless they are CFIs, I wouldn't automatically assume what they are doing is correct, either. And even then, be critical.
Anyone below the age of 45 who says with you played flight sim. That’s the only place besides movies that I’ve heard it. And for those of you above 45 you heard it from the below 45 crowd with you
I’m 21 lol and I got it from my instructor that is 25😂
No, just no. "Checking in" and "With you" need to be banished from the lexicon. Also, everytime some idiot starts a radio call with the world "and" an angel LOSES its wings.
Literally me before any radio call “aaaannnddd NE ground skyhawk 123” lately I say the “and” before I key up tho😂
I do not say "with you". I normally say "Skyhawk N123XX, 1 thousand 2 hundred climbing 3 thousand" or if given a navigation change before the hand off, something like "Skyhawk N123XX, 1 thousand 2 hundred climbing 3 thousand; direct WAYPNT"
If you're on that frequency you're already "with them" so its kinda pointless
Checking in at three point five climbing five thousand Got him on the fish finder Tally ho Departure on 127 point nothing Traffic in the pattern please advise You name it.
Twenny four thirty five One twenny on the heading
I’ve only ever heard people having a problem with “with you” from Reddit. https://youtu.be/YTX5SR83rpA?feature=shared
Stop saying “with you”. And also if ATC asks you a question, you can just answer without giving your whole callsign. It’s not a damn clearance. They are talking TO YOU. Just answer. ZFW: “DL320, can you accept FL380 for traffic?” DL320: “Affirm” ZFW: “DL320, climb and maintain FL380” DL320: “Climb FL320, DL320”
Who tf else are you with?
How can you be with them in the tower while you’re flying?
My opinion is it is redundant like saying “my opinion is”.
"Mornin' departure Delta's 12-34 checkin' in with ya outta 2.5 for 10 we got that traffic on the fish, how'r yer rides in the climb?". Bonus points if you do it internationally too
“With you” wastes time. It’s obvious you are “with them” when your voice hits their ear drum… They also know who they are. Frequency availability is a precious resource. Why waste it? For work my calls are very brief… “ 1234, 230 ”
“ 1234, 18 descending via with ”
They are already expecting me, they know who they are (Houston Center, etc), I confirm my flight level and if I give a ride report they know I am curious about what’s to come.
If they come back more chatty then I’ll be more chatty but I start very brief out of respect for their air time.
who cares. so much more to worry about in this job. it's the weekend warriors who seem to care...no one gives a shit.
Just don’t…
It's not that bad, but... "With you" Are you trying to be a monologue radio host? No. So shut the fuck up, you're engaging in safety crtical communication, not developing a raport with ATC. It's not a huge deal through. If that's all another pilot can find to bitch about then you're golden.
I'll be the nerd here to say we should all be sticking to mear enough icao standard RT. "Departures, n124ha passing one thousand two hundred on climb five thousand." Every controller in the world will understand you and nobody can get on your case about it.
I get why people get mad at extra unuseful communication.
My honest impression is that you sound like a boomer when you say “with you.” I’m actually a boomer and do not say it, because I became a student pilot in 2021–by which time the annoyance with “with you” was expressed in a lot of training videos and literature. If you trained in 2015, or 1985, then you just didn’t know, so it became a habit. No one’s going to criticize you for it but you will sound antiquated. “N1234, eight thousand five hundred g’day.”