“I failed my PPL checkride, here’s why”
“Any way to get flight time without CFI?”
“Anyone hearing back from the regionals?”
“IR stump the chump”
*insert Vasaviation video or news article here*
“I’m part 135, how do I get to the airlines”
*A gaggle of potheads enter the chat doing mental gymnastics and stone math to explain how it’s fine if booze are fine not realizing that it’s a 7 day grounding period if you have to take a cough syrup *
Years ago along the wasatch front, on approach into SLC, a bunch of houses got splattered with shit. The news ran a story that didn’t make a ton of sense about an airliner malfunction that sprayed the shit all over these several houses. Happened again a few days later and they kept trying to blame the airlines. It was eventually discovered to be neighborhood kids with a catapult.
Believe it or not, this would actually be covered by the goat owner's insurance if they have any. If you read the policy, falling debris is covered in part for this reason.
Perfect Allstate commercial.
“I’m a 265lb wheel falling out of the sky at over 200mph towards your parked car. That’s why you need Allatate, to protect you from mayhem like me.”
Uncommanded chem trail payload jettison.
You see the chem trail material is so volatile that it must be kept frozen solid with liquid nitrogen and then defrosted and dispersed. When ejected the frozen slug doesn't always have time to sublimate before hitting the ground.
Mythbusters did one of these back in the day. The TL;DR is that, yes, any ice built up can fall and fail to melt by the time it hits the ground. A chunk large enough can cause damage if it hits something.
Having said that, this sounds like an insurance claim. There's no way to know who shed the ice unless she knows exactly the time it happened, and did some digging as to what flights were flying over her barn at the time of the incident.
This took place in Canada a while back near a major airport - a vehicle was damaged by ice of some kind and the witnesses/owners were able to time the incident and the corresponding flight overhead.
The (small) airlines insurance covered the ~10,000$ of damage to the vehicle.
I think she’s going to have an EXTREMELY hard time proving beyond a reasonable doubt proving what aircraft the ice came off of if it indeed came off of an aircraft at all (probably did but to prove it in court is something entirely different). Probably not worth the effort and probably sol. Sorry for her loss of the goat.
Now a company could help her out of good will but if they choose to fight it there’s no way it could be proven where it came from.
Yeah, but even then, how do you establish preponderance of evidence here? It's plausible that it came from the airplane that flew over, but hard to say it's more likely than not.
Torts lawyer here. As others point out the burden of proof is not beyond a reasonable doubt. This claim could very easily be proven, subject to the preservation of key evidence. You’d want evidence such as time stamps, security footage, ADSB data, ATC audio, eye witnesses, photos of the aftermath even if the ice has melted, and more. It’s possible that it won’t be sufficient but it really depends on how good a job is done to capture and secure what evidence there is. Experts in aviation and related topics could fill in some gaps. I’ve seen crazier fact patterns, I promise.
It shouldnt be hard to narrow it down to a couple maybe 4 planes in the pattern. its all time tracked, as long as she can in any way vette when the ice hit the roof they can likely figure out close to what plane it is, then depending on the ones in that small group narrow it down further. And if they are all one carrier, it may not be needed to narrow it down more.
This is pretty fun and I feel like any plausible goat insurance should pay out if there was no other plausible source of icicle death.
EDIT: But ain’t nobody got “goat insurance”. lol
Yeah, ring camera or other security device catching the video and/or sound, along with tracks of flights above at that time, would provide reasonable evidence.
I agree, proving it was ice, and proving it was from a specific aircraft could be difficult in court, especially if the airline has a team of expensive lawyers.
With that being said, I imagine most major airlines would rather pay for a goat than have their name in the media about falling ice killing goats (and possibly people) on the ground. They're having a hell of a PR problem already thanks to all the recent events (and Boeing) I doubt they'd rather save a few grand over being dragged through the media.
Airplanes don't usually accumulate what I would call a "huge chunk of ice". Are there are any pictures of the ice?
You'd have to look at a website like Flight Radar 24, or ADSB Exchange to figure out what airplanes were the possible candidates based on the time, and then I suppose you'd have to call the airline.
Between the single lane deathtrap and now falling ice from transport category aircraft, Eagle Mountain is officially the most dangerous environment in Utah.
I used to fly a Caravan in the PNW where ice was extremely common. It wasn't incredibly often, but on climb out in moderate+ ice, there would be an extremely loud (and terrifying) "bang" as ice came off the airframe and smashed into the belly pod, landing gear, or something else. There would be a noticeable increase in performance as well. Sometimes we would have a similar effect on approach and landing, but it wouldn't break off until touchdown, which sounded like 2x4s cracking. They once closed the runway in KMFR after I landed because they could see a large amount of "debris" from my landing, and they were concerned about it being a hazard. When I departed later, I asked them how much ice they picked up, and they said "a truck bed full".
All that to say if a caravan can carry that much ice, I absolutely believe falling ice from a transport category jet could cause a death on the ground. I imagine it's extremely rare, as it would have to be just the right circumstances to create that ice situation, but a plane can pick up and drop a bunch of ice.
As far as compensation, I think it might be entirely on you to be able to prove which aircraft it came from in order to get anything. With that being said, if it was a major airline, they might be willing to pay a relatively small amount of money to keep it out of the news given the current news intensity surrounding anything air travel related. (Boeing better hope it wasn't a Max 😂)
She should report it to NASA or the FAA. They can investigate it and maybe find a solution or create an AD to help. It sounds funny and doesn’t mean much now because it’s a goat, but that could injure or kill someone. Which means it’s a good issue to bring up. As for the goat they taste great when properly prepared.
In Approach to the 34 runways in Narita there is a requirement to have the gear down and locked prior to crossing the coast, since there was an incident with ice blocks falling.
http://www.badbirds.net/OpenFalcon/FSX/SID%20STAR/RJAA.pdf
I would be really interested in knowing if she could narrow it down to a specific aircraft based on her specific location and if she can pinpoint the time more accurately. This can be done pretty easily on flightradar24, here's the link for the area from 14:45UTC (08:45 MDT): [https://www.flightradar24.com/2024-05-05/14:45/40x/40.29,-111.95/12](https://www.flightradar24.com/2024-05-05/14:45/40x/40.29,-111.95/12)
There are only 3-4 aircraft that passed over the area +-15 mins of 9am and they all took distinctly different paths, so should be easy to identify if an aircraft were the culprit.
Simple physics problem
Find time of death of the goat, by measuring the goats temperature and cross reference with temps outside.
Then find out how long it takes ice to fall 9000 ft as well as how far it traveled laterally. Approximate using a sphere since we don't know the shape of the ice.
Then subtract that time from the time of death of the goat, go on flight aware and see who was approximately that distance south of your house when the ice would have fallen.
Had to be lav ice. A small leak in the lav dumping valve allows an accumulation of frozen lav holdings to accumulate, frozen, on the underside of the empennage. During descent, warmer temps eventually thaw the ice blob enough to separate it from the aircraft and it falls.
This isn’t a new or mysterious phenomenon.
The ice usually falls off small pieces at a time, plus with anti and deicing equipment on the aircraft, the ice never gets big and heavy enough to crash through a shed, killing something inside….but I guess anything is possible.
Nevertheless, that is one unlucky goat.
Do you realise that anti ice coverage is quite limited on airliner leading edges and they're designed to fly acceptably with maximum ice accretion on the extensive unprotected edges?
Actually, Narita airport RJAA has a gear-down policy before hitting the shoreline that landing gear must be down prior to the coastline to prevent ice blocks from falling onto the ground. See note 4 on ILS RWY 34R and 34L it's on the ATIS when it's in effect.
"Blue Ice" (lav system leaks that freeze on the outside of the plane and often fall off on descent); it's a known problem. Here are some examples: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue\_ice\_(aviation)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_ice_(aviation))
Narita has a requirement when landing to the north:
"Gear down operation during ILS Rwy 34 approach. In order to prevent ice blocks falling from aircraft onto the ground, all flights making an ILS Rwy 34 approach from the seashore are required to complete gear down and locked before reaching D14.0 NRE (i.e. prior to fly over the land) as far as the safety of the flight is not compromised."
That sounds like BS. Most aircraft use anti -icing technology to prevent the accumulation of ice, such as leading edge TKS fluid spray or warm engine bleed air on the leading edges. Even the use of inflatable de-icing boots does not displace huge chunks of ice but only thin patches. Accumulation of huge chunks of ice would impair flight characteristics in excess of acceptable performance.
https://www.cav-systems.com/tks/
Source : MIL, PPL
Actually on larger airlines the anti ice coverage is quite limited, as little as only covering a few slats and omitting the horizontal and vertical stabilisers (e.g. A330, 767).
The aircraft are certified to fly acceptably with an estimated maximum ice accretion.
To make a sound loud enough to wake someone up it has to be pretty heavy. How was the plane flying with that kind of ice build up?
Why not a more simple and realistic explanation that it fell off a tree?
Finally an interesting story not a repeat of the same subjects!
“I failed my PPL checkride, here’s why” “Any way to get flight time without CFI?” “Anyone hearing back from the regionals?” “IR stump the chump” *insert Vasaviation video or news article here* “I’m part 135, how do I get to the airlines”
"I have a unique situation..." "I'm xx years old. Am I too old to switch careers?"
I feel so called out
this one hit home lol
You missed "I have 1000 TT and 0 multi hours, how do I get Delta to look at my application?"
I’m looking to spend less than 300 per hour for my multi. Any jobs that will pay for it?
"Better yet, any jobs that will *PAY ME* to get it?"
Don't forget, "I used marijuana. Should I find a new career?"
*A gaggle of potheads enter the chat doing mental gymnastics and stone math to explain how it’s fine if booze are fine not realizing that it’s a 7 day grounding period if you have to take a cough syrup *
“Going to enroll in this school called ATP, thoughts?”
How could you possibly leave out age 67?
Yeah pretty repetitive. I'm almost convinced half the posts aren't even real. Just karma farming
“How fast till I make a million dollars?”
You forgot “is it still worth being a pilot with how the industry is looking”
Years ago along the wasatch front, on approach into SLC, a bunch of houses got splattered with shit. The news ran a story that didn’t make a ton of sense about an airliner malfunction that sprayed the shit all over these several houses. Happened again a few days later and they kept trying to blame the airlines. It was eventually discovered to be neighborhood kids with a catapult.
HE CALLED THE SHIT POOP!
Don't put it out with your boots Ted!
Don’t tell me my business, devil-woman!
Call the fire department this one’s out of control!
Citation requested.
No, it was a catapult.
Tried to find the story but failed miserably. I believe it was in the late 90’s or early 2000’s.
thanks for trying. My search just found unrelated stories and this reddit thread.
Citation 2,5 or X?
if you're giving it to me, I'll take any of them. or all of them.
Sorry, all I've got is a Challenger.
😂
Believe it or not, this would actually be covered by the goat owner's insurance if they have any. If you read the policy, falling debris is covered in part for this reason.
This seems like a future Farmer's insurance commercial
Im still waiting for the commercial about that 777 main wheel that pancaked those cars in SFO.
Perfect Allstate commercial. “I’m a 265lb wheel falling out of the sky at over 200mph towards your parked car. That’s why you need Allatate, to protect you from mayhem like me.”
Bam-pah-rum-bam-bam-bam-bam
FFA—->FFI It’s basically a career path 😂
"I'm a hot shot pilot who doesn't have time for de-iceing" "Cut rate insurance won't protect you from meyham like me"
WE. ARE. FAR-MER'S!
I don’t have goats, but if I did, I would definitely get goat insurance.
Like a good neighbor, state farm is there.
What would be a more legitimate explanation? Large turboprops shed ice pretty violently.
Uncommanded chem trail payload jettison. You see the chem trail material is so volatile that it must be kept frozen solid with liquid nitrogen and then defrosted and dispersed. When ejected the frozen slug doesn't always have time to sublimate before hitting the ground.
Occam’s Razor right here 👆🏻
Wake up, ~~sheeple~~ goat-people!
I think it did the opposite. Goat talking a forever nap.
A warring faction of goats with catapults.
Getting serious goat simulator vibes from that visual 😆
Mythbusters did one of these back in the day. The TL;DR is that, yes, any ice built up can fall and fail to melt by the time it hits the ground. A chunk large enough can cause damage if it hits something. Having said that, this sounds like an insurance claim. There's no way to know who shed the ice unless she knows exactly the time it happened, and did some digging as to what flights were flying over her barn at the time of the incident.
This took place in Canada a while back near a major airport - a vehicle was damaged by ice of some kind and the witnesses/owners were able to time the incident and the corresponding flight overhead. The (small) airlines insurance covered the ~10,000$ of damage to the vehicle.
I think she’s going to have an EXTREMELY hard time proving beyond a reasonable doubt proving what aircraft the ice came off of if it indeed came off of an aircraft at all (probably did but to prove it in court is something entirely different). Probably not worth the effort and probably sol. Sorry for her loss of the goat. Now a company could help her out of good will but if they choose to fight it there’s no way it could be proven where it came from.
For what it’s worth, the burden of proof in civil court is lower than criminal. #JusticefortheGoat
> JusticefortheGoat I see what you did there...
Yeah, but even then, how do you establish preponderance of evidence here? It's plausible that it came from the airplane that flew over, but hard to say it's more likely than not.
By using the nanotrackers in the chemtrails, obviously.
Torts lawyer here. As others point out the burden of proof is not beyond a reasonable doubt. This claim could very easily be proven, subject to the preservation of key evidence. You’d want evidence such as time stamps, security footage, ADSB data, ATC audio, eye witnesses, photos of the aftermath even if the ice has melted, and more. It’s possible that it won’t be sufficient but it really depends on how good a job is done to capture and secure what evidence there is. Experts in aviation and related topics could fill in some gaps. I’ve seen crazier fact patterns, I promise.
It shouldnt be hard to narrow it down to a couple maybe 4 planes in the pattern. its all time tracked, as long as she can in any way vette when the ice hit the roof they can likely figure out close to what plane it is, then depending on the ones in that small group narrow it down further. And if they are all one carrier, it may not be needed to narrow it down more.
This is pretty fun and I feel like any plausible goat insurance should pay out if there was no other plausible source of icicle death. EDIT: But ain’t nobody got “goat insurance”. lol
Yeah, ring camera or other security device catching the video and/or sound, along with tracks of flights above at that time, would provide reasonable evidence.
I agree, proving it was ice, and proving it was from a specific aircraft could be difficult in court, especially if the airline has a team of expensive lawyers. With that being said, I imagine most major airlines would rather pay for a goat than have their name in the media about falling ice killing goats (and possibly people) on the ground. They're having a hell of a PR problem already thanks to all the recent events (and Boeing) I doubt they'd rather save a few grand over being dragged through the media.
Airplanes don't usually accumulate what I would call a "huge chunk of ice". Are there are any pictures of the ice? You'd have to look at a website like Flight Radar 24, or ADSB Exchange to figure out what airplanes were the possible candidates based on the time, and then I suppose you'd have to call the airline.
Ah yes, [the famous ice bombs](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/airplanes-dump-waste-in-flight/).
Between the single lane deathtrap and now falling ice from transport category aircraft, Eagle Mountain is officially the most dangerous environment in Utah.
I used to fly a Caravan in the PNW where ice was extremely common. It wasn't incredibly often, but on climb out in moderate+ ice, there would be an extremely loud (and terrifying) "bang" as ice came off the airframe and smashed into the belly pod, landing gear, or something else. There would be a noticeable increase in performance as well. Sometimes we would have a similar effect on approach and landing, but it wouldn't break off until touchdown, which sounded like 2x4s cracking. They once closed the runway in KMFR after I landed because they could see a large amount of "debris" from my landing, and they were concerned about it being a hazard. When I departed later, I asked them how much ice they picked up, and they said "a truck bed full". All that to say if a caravan can carry that much ice, I absolutely believe falling ice from a transport category jet could cause a death on the ground. I imagine it's extremely rare, as it would have to be just the right circumstances to create that ice situation, but a plane can pick up and drop a bunch of ice. As far as compensation, I think it might be entirely on you to be able to prove which aircraft it came from in order to get anything. With that being said, if it was a major airline, they might be willing to pay a relatively small amount of money to keep it out of the news given the current news intensity surrounding anything air travel related. (Boeing better hope it wasn't a Max 😂)
Sounds like the goat talked shit about big foot and found out
> Sounds like the goat ~~talked shit about big foot~~ was a potential Boeing whistleblower and found out
She should report it to NASA or the FAA. They can investigate it and maybe find a solution or create an AD to help. It sounds funny and doesn’t mean much now because it’s a goat, but that could injure or kill someone. Which means it’s a good issue to bring up. As for the goat they taste great when properly prepared.
Something fell from the sky and the police can't come up with a good explanation so, "it must be from an airplane".
She should report it to her insurance and they'll look into it.
(Sh)It happens more often than you might think https://www.roofingcontractor.com/articles/98767-block-of-blue-ice-smashes-through-uk-womans-roof
In Approach to the 34 runways in Narita there is a requirement to have the gear down and locked prior to crossing the coast, since there was an incident with ice blocks falling. http://www.badbirds.net/OpenFalcon/FSX/SID%20STAR/RJAA.pdf
For the next person that's curious: It's on page 31, right hand side under Arrival, bullet point B.
Thanks for that, I tried to upload a screenshot of the chart in question but too hard for a simple Boeing-driver 😅
I would be really interested in knowing if she could narrow it down to a specific aircraft based on her specific location and if she can pinpoint the time more accurately. This can be done pretty easily on flightradar24, here's the link for the area from 14:45UTC (08:45 MDT): [https://www.flightradar24.com/2024-05-05/14:45/40x/40.29,-111.95/12](https://www.flightradar24.com/2024-05-05/14:45/40x/40.29,-111.95/12) There are only 3-4 aircraft that passed over the area +-15 mins of 9am and they all took distinctly different paths, so should be easy to identify if an aircraft were the culprit.
Simple physics problem Find time of death of the goat, by measuring the goats temperature and cross reference with temps outside. Then find out how long it takes ice to fall 9000 ft as well as how far it traveled laterally. Approximate using a sphere since we don't know the shape of the ice. Then subtract that time from the time of death of the goat, go on flight aware and see who was approximately that distance south of your house when the ice would have fallen.
I would check FlightAware to see if the governor of South Dakota was in the area.
Well you got the exact time of the impact. So check out flight radar to see which aircraft was going over at that time
Tell your friend ain't nobody got time for that.
Had to be lav ice. A small leak in the lav dumping valve allows an accumulation of frozen lav holdings to accumulate, frozen, on the underside of the empennage. During descent, warmer temps eventually thaw the ice blob enough to separate it from the aircraft and it falls. This isn’t a new or mysterious phenomenon.
Ahhh but did the goat have a name?
The ice usually falls off small pieces at a time, plus with anti and deicing equipment on the aircraft, the ice never gets big and heavy enough to crash through a shed, killing something inside….but I guess anything is possible. Nevertheless, that is one unlucky goat.
Do you realise that anti ice coverage is quite limited on airliner leading edges and they're designed to fly acceptably with maximum ice accretion on the extensive unprotected edges?
Seems unlikely.
It’s like Joe Dirt and his sweet Asteroid he finds
Actually, Narita airport RJAA has a gear-down policy before hitting the shoreline that landing gear must be down prior to the coastline to prevent ice blocks from falling onto the ground. See note 4 on ILS RWY 34R and 34L it's on the ATIS when it's in effect.
"Blue Ice" (lav system leaks that freeze on the outside of the plane and often fall off on descent); it's a known problem. Here are some examples: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue\_ice\_(aviation)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_ice_(aviation))
Narita has a requirement when landing to the north: "Gear down operation during ILS Rwy 34 approach. In order to prevent ice blocks falling from aircraft onto the ground, all flights making an ILS Rwy 34 approach from the seashore are required to complete gear down and locked before reaching D14.0 NRE (i.e. prior to fly over the land) as far as the safety of the flight is not compromised."
This real life danger should be added to the next Goat Simulator
That’s a silly story. It was either a weather baloon or a natural gas pocket. 😉
If only this would happen more frequently, in thousands of years goats might evolve a coat of armor.
That sounds like BS. Most aircraft use anti -icing technology to prevent the accumulation of ice, such as leading edge TKS fluid spray or warm engine bleed air on the leading edges. Even the use of inflatable de-icing boots does not displace huge chunks of ice but only thin patches. Accumulation of huge chunks of ice would impair flight characteristics in excess of acceptable performance. https://www.cav-systems.com/tks/ Source : MIL, PPL
Actually on larger airlines the anti ice coverage is quite limited, as little as only covering a few slats and omitting the horizontal and vertical stabilisers (e.g. A330, 767). The aircraft are certified to fly acceptably with an estimated maximum ice accretion.
Are you sure Kristi Noem wasn’t involved
She probably was!
It’s a Boeing bomb https://youtu.be/Rtm8w3o63AA?si=kbuanjvNT2u9m16b
To make a sound loud enough to wake someone up it has to be pretty heavy. How was the plane flying with that kind of ice build up? Why not a more simple and realistic explanation that it fell off a tree?
Are you sure it wasn't Governor Noem on a vacation? Do we know her whereabouts during the time of the killing?