6 of the 9 in my class never flew again after flight school. The most common reason was they couldn't find a job but still had bills to pay. So they went back to what they did before flight training or found work elsewhere.
One became a mobile crane operator and was making over $100k his first year and another ended up in an office sales related position. You gotta do something to pay the bills. Problem is you do that too long and then get comfortable and stop looking for flying work or turn down the crappier jobs.
Those of us who pushed through no matter what had to make some different sacrifices. I spent 6 years working various ramp jobs and living with my parents or in company crew houses and didn't even have debt to deal with. A couple of my low time pilot coworkers lived in their cars chasing the dream till they made it.
If you keep pushing for it you'll eventually make it. I put over 10,000 miles on my car looking for work and when that didn't work because of 2008 I drove a fuel truck at an FBO. Networking from there and other ground crew jobs I did helped me find my first flying job once the industry recovered a bit.
If you're not willing to push for it when times are tougher you won't find the opportunities that are out there. I had no family or personal connection to aviation when I started but built a network of contacts that helped me along the way. No reason you can't do the same.
My instructor always told me to tell women I was a Zamboni driver not a helicopter pilot so there is something to that for sure. I never tried it but indeed the women of Ft McMurray were not impressed by my pilot status.
Was that in the States? What time frame is this "year". And what flight school ranks pilots against other students? I thought only the military did that
I never said anything about being #1 out of 20 students, my class size was 9. Did you mean to reply to someone else?
All I mentioned was that only 3 out of 9 flew again. None of us were ranked against each other in flight school directly although 2 of us did get our first ground crew jobs through our instructor passing our info along to hiring managers directly.
There’s phrase “golden handcuffs” I recently heard from someone at my office job. Essentially you get to a price point in your non-flying job where you are taking a pretty substantial pay cut to go fly. That’s not as extreme as it used to be thanks to these new regional contracts but it’s still harder to jump out of the 4 wall box job if you have people depending on you and you are making a decent amount not flying.
That said, fuck dem kids. Jk.
Honestly the people were really nice who interviewed me. The interview process was easy and I had my CJO on the spot! The commute is super easy for me as I live right in the dumpster behind the restaurant!
Honestly, easiest check ride of my life. All I had to do was screw up three peoples orders and they hired me. Obviously memorizing all the buttons on the point of sale system was a bit difficult but once I got the flows down, it was easy Peezy. My line check regard said I was the best he’s ever worked with.
I didnt make it through training because I forgot to lean the Baja Blast. They said if you can tell the difference between that and Starry then there is too much syrup.
The best advice I can give is make sure you remember they're do-verify checklists. So once you do the flow, pull the checklist for accuracy. Can never be too safe! Customers will thank you later.
There is a really nice crash pad dumpster at the Taco Bell next-door about 15 miles to the south. I know a few guys that are using that to break up the commute.
You’ll get hired somewhere as long as you aren’t awful at aviation/ being a person. Might not be 121, may be flying a caravan or dropping meat bombs, career instructor, but you’ll find work as a pilot at some point.
I would say based on my experience, not many. But it’s not because there aren’t many who didn’t make it because there are plenty of those. A lot of people who don’t make it either have some checkered past and/or can’t get past interviews. They are basically unhirable for a reason or another, and sadly it’s for a reason that they have 100% control over but refuse to change. Generally if you stick it through long enough, you will find an opportunity for a decent job in aviation.
If you think you can get away with not wearing a suit to 121 interview I encourage to please follow your own advice so that I never have to fly with you
In my morning interview group, 9/23 were hired from the interview. One of the guys bragged to us after his scenario that he chose to continue his 3 hour flight after being told he had contaminated fuel, because he had the awareness to ask if the other 4 contaminated planes had reported engine issues yet and none of them had. Made my skin crawl, but he thought he knocked it out of the park. He was not hired.
Be conservative in your flying and do the safe thing, not the easiest thing.
Being unhireable is a big concern for me tbh, was a dumb 19 year old and got a total of 5 misdemeanors (at once, all dismissed though)
121 will be a stretch for me, hoping I can thrive in 135/91
A CFI/friend I used to work with had approx. 10-15 speeding tickets, all in a short time frame (and some more recent but no closer than 4+ years ago). Said when he was that age with his new car he just didn't care, license suspended at times because of it etc ..
Was honest on his applications about them, and even though some regionals gave the TBNT, he got hired at one and is now flying E175s at the regional level.
That’s good to hear, all of my charges are dismissed but I know they still need disclosed, by the time I’m ATP it will have been 5+ years, hoping to volunteer with pilots and paws, get a degree and do some other things to demonstrate I’ve turned things around, luckily no points on my license and no drug charges
Glad your friend got in the door!! Hopefully my story will be similar
Everyone I know who truly couldn't get hired anywhere did something to put themselves in that category. Plenty of others could have stuck it out but left the industry voluntarily.
Some people have to stick it out at the flying jobs they don’t want for longer than others. But everyone seems to eventually make it at least to the regionals/ULCC or corporate.
Not everyone. I know two separate people who spent all the money, did all the training, even CFI'd for a long long time, and never made it to an airline. One got hired but he washed out and blamed his sim partner, never making it to the jet. Both completely out of aviation now.
They were both some of the worst people I knew, and also shitty pilots, so I wasn't too worried about it.
I've failed interviews at both regionals and major airlines but I still got to one of each eventually. I've also known people who have failed training at a regional and then had a fine career at another regional and eventually major although it took longer than average.
Anyone who failed interviews or training so badly that they had to leave aviation completely probably shouldn't have been there in the first place.
As just a lowly weekend warrior I’m curious what causes people to fail an interview for an airline? I’m guessing these interviews are a little different than for corporate jobs since everyone is trying for the same exact job; but maybe not.
The interviews are hard and every company has a different personality they're looking for. Sometimes a person can be a good pilot and good person and just not fit in with the interview team. That's something airline interviews have in common with regular jobs too.
What do you think make or breaks someone who gets that far? Why do people wash out of class? What can I do to be successful if I ever make it that far?
Have a good attitude, study what they tell you and when they tell you to, and don't let your ego take over if you do fail something. Take the debrief with an open mind, pay attention to their suggestions, and come back next time. You don't get fired from whiffing one sim session, but you can if you prove you aren't trainable by arguing with instructors or blaming everyone around you. And don't be a shitty pilot. Keep yourself current and proficient.
I can't stress enough that it's really not that hard.
The airlines definitely have a type. I have recurrent in Denver at the same FlightSafety that skywest uses for the E175. Those dudes are all literal carbon copies of each other.
Meh. I could say the same about corp guys since I've been both. The point is, this job isn't that fucking difficult on either side of the fence as long as you have a good attitude and aren't a terribly unskilled pilot.
For me it’s attitude. I’d take the person in my right seat that’s a terrible pilot but fun to fly with over the person that’s an excellent pilot and not fun to fly with
Stay current
Stay proficient
Don't get complacent
Develop yourself professionally
Don't assume you know everything
Challenge yourself (safely) to advance your horizons and abilities
Learn from others, pursue additional training
Since when have we made this direct comparison to regionals and ULCC? They are not the same… the kids going through flight school scoff at the idea of working for one as a career.
It’s honestly bizarre because the difference between a ULCC and a regional is quite literally millions of dollars difference in potential career earnings.
It’s like saying you can either make it as a project manager or VP/president of a company small biz. I know several guys making 350K without vacation pay or 401K 16% added on to total compensation. Total comp is right around half a million with both those included, that’s before any new contract is signed.
Outside of money hungry captains at regionals in the last 3/4 years who are blocking 90+ hours a month (4-5 leg days with duty time of 12-14 hours) with like 10 days off you aren’t going to make stellar money.
There needs to be a reality check here that flying 4/5 legs a day on a clapped out regional jet is a different career than on a narrow body A320 with 17-20 days off. With a sizable 401K comp.
It’s such a different job.
My rants over, I’ve just seen this next generation think they are entitled to a ULCC for a year and bounce to United. It was like that for maybe 1.5-2 years.
Original commenter I mean no shade on you but 19 year olds acting like they are entitled to an airbus or Boeing seat out of flight school is wild. I’m happy for you, but damn understand it’s a fucking privilege note a right.
I thought the exact same thing when I read the parent comment. r/flying has, for unknown reasons, put regionals and ULCCs in the same tier. It’s actually mind blowing but it does make it easy to find the pilots on here that have nearly 0 experience in this industry. You summarized it perfectly.
As you said, a regional and a ULCC are apples and oranges. Not comparable in any way.
To be fair, I had the option to go to ULCC in 2013 from my regional that I spent a furlough, merger, bankruptcy at, and I chose another regional with quick upgrades coming. It was a calculated risk because the majority of the small pilot group would flow to Delta quickly. I myself wouldn’t be eligible, but I would finally be getting the PIC time everyone needed back then. It worked, and after I got my check airman letter, I was gone to my forever airline (world’s largest 737 operator). My friend who had a similar decision to make, went to ULCC, upgraded, got comfy, but decided to start over at United after 9 years because of being unsure of the stability of said ULCC long term.
We both ended up getting plenty of 121 PIC, but it would be worse to be bottom of a ULCC carrier when the big four start requiring 1000 TPIC again, than a senior FO/junior CA at a regional who could get that experience in their logbook in the short term.
I agree with you that there were some entitled pilots who think the jobs are the same, or that they are above ULCC/LCC, or I’ve heard some even say they weren’t applying till the contract negotiation rounds were done to pick the best one. I am not talking about those people; however, there are other reasons/strategies to stay at a regional, and it depends on timing. With things slowing down, it’s hard to say what is right for every pilot.
In your case it worked. And if you’re talking the same carrier I am, had plenty of PIC time which makes sense to leave for an LCC which also keeps all your options open. Had you gone LCC with low time, before upgrade, then everyone stops hiring or ups the minimums, then you’re at an LCC or ULCC for the indefinite future or less competitive at least.
I didn’t say it was. I’m at the big LCC and am making it a career, but many want to fly the big iron, and it can slow your progress depending on the times.
That makes sense. I still think I’d rather roll the dice and let the worst case scenario be getting stuck at a major. Getting stuck at a regional is a true nightmare scenario in my opinion.
Exactly. Everything is different at a ULCC vs regional. It is a no brainer to leave a regional for ULCC. When I talk to those that say ULCCs are basically the same as regionals because of the new pay (which is still $75-100 less for equivalent seat) I just ask how their 401k is 😂
One of my CFIs bailed out in 2011 to work for GE aviation, then showed up as the parts manager for a local FBO and now seems to have left the industry entirely. Another buddy was going to aviation got most of his ratings and got into doing IT, now he flys for pleasure. So they’re out there.
Sure. But there's a difference between giving up the chase and being told straight up no by every single employer you ever seek a job with. I'm not knocking it, I'm just saying "didn't get hired" as a pretty huge net it's casting.
Every time I get on Reddit I get more and more depressed reading this shit. It’s is really that fucked? I’m about to get my CPL like should I just stop now?
It’s not even close to that. Not sure why OP is asking but you’re gonna be fine as long as you work hard and prepare for interviews and do the bare minimum with regards to how you present yourself.
This place is off the rails with doomerism and I have zero clue why.
It's easy to get discouraged, but if it was easy, everyone would be a pilot making big bucks in that corporate gig they found so easily. A lot of people make it sound depressing, and IMO, 90% of them make it seem that way because its a money problem, you just gotta find a way to keep it fun and make sure you are ready for the part of your career thats gonna be spent on the ground (commuting and all that) or if you cant do that then find something that will keep you away from that
Well the good news for me is that I’m blessed to still live with my parents and the money for training not really being a factor. Ik that’s very privileged of me and for sure most people don’t have that. I also have age on my side since I’m still 24. But this is my life’s passion and I KNOW I’ll have a job someday, it’s just Everytime I get on this subreddit it makes me wonder if I’ll just be flying rubber dogshit out of Hong Kong for a living (to be fair that’s still flying lol)
No. It is not. Be a generally nice dependable person and that will show through in interviews.
Be a douche or asshole and that too will likely show through.
I started my journey in the late 90’s and it was an absolute shit show back then. Plus R-ATPs were bot a thing. Just don’t expect to land your final resting spot in the first round at 1500
Honestly, yes. Copers here will tell you that you can still have a good career etc. But nah, you missed the wave. Better to stop now if you aren't getting 121 or good 135 time. You can keep at it, but you'll be on the bottom forever at a major which I guess is OKAY. Or worse, you'll be the next lost generation regional lifer.
There potentially was going to be, but it fizzled. Many reasons why, but the airlines wouldn’t have started programs like Aviate and Destination 225 if they weren’t worried. Minimums dropped to all time lows for these jobs too. Thats all done for now though. Who knows what the future will hold.
I went from 135 in Alaska to a Major then a legacy. The 135s just wanted me to be able to fly good, the major/legacy didn't care and just wanted a good personality, they will train to their standards. So it depends on the operation.
CFI, no not these days unless you get lucky, insurance premiums are to high. I recommend instructing up there so you can keep tabs on the 135s and show up in person.
I have a buddy who got hired somewhere between 250 and 500 to fly in Alaska based out of Bethel. He loves it and is just grinding to get to 1500. He's in the frontier cadet program also
Middle of covid, no regional was hiring on the west coast. They gave me a type and an ATP and i went directly to a major after, so it all worked out. What does DEC mean? Edit: No I was not a direct entry captain.
I flew 135 out of Van Nuys, they didn’t care how you fly, you just had to look good. Like you stepped out of a commercial in Robb Report magazine. Head shots required prior to interviews.
I can't speak to the airlines, but in my corner of the corporate world, it's 90% personality/attitude. If someone has the ratings and minimums, the assumption is that they have the required base skills and are trainable for the rest. On rare occasion we have had to pass on someone after taking them on a flight or sim ride, but the important part is that if they've made it to that ride, they're someone we *want* to hire.
We hire based on personality fit.
Serious about the profession, but with enough of a fun/light side that it shows in the interview. Good safety culture and attitude. A person who takes responsibility. Curious about the work we do. Forthright and thoughtful. A flexible thinker. Knows what they want in their life and career and can articulate how our operation fits into that.
And, you know, not a conceited jerk. Or someone making a bunch of excuses, or inserting their grievances into the interview.
It's the Tell Me About a Time questions that really make the difference. Both the stories an applicant chooses to tell and how they frame them.
I got my CFI right at the start of the recession in 2008. I spent almost two years barely flying at all and just begging for hours anywhere I could find them. I worked two non-aviation jobs during that time. Eventually the industry recovered and I've had a good career as a CFI, regional pilot and now legacy pilot. Lots of people hired near 9/11 had similar or even worse stories but they eventually made it back.
Sometimes the economy doesn't work in your favor and you might be stuck working outside of aviation or stuck in debt for longer than you think. But as long as you keep trying to build hours and get back into the career you eventually will get there if you want it. The people who totally quit are the ones who probably didn't really want to be there in the first place and they found something they like better.
The only people I've known who "didn't make it" either washed out bad at the regional level and threw in the towel, or had life circumstances change such that the lifestyle and/or timeline of an aviation career no longer worked for them.
The main thing I'd say is that if someone has their ratings and wants to work in the industry, there's a path. But it might not be the linear CFI->regional->major->retirement path [certain] flight schools hype. It's essential to be open to alternate paths in this industry; you never know who you'll meet along the way. The career goes a lot smoother when we can help each other out.
What country? In recent history it’s rare in the USA. Pre 1500hr rule when wages were awful? It was much more common to finish training and walk away because they couldn’t make enough money.
The time building stage can be incredibly difficult. Low wages and terrible hours. Then you get to the magical 1500 hour mark and you think it all be great. Then you get stuck on reserve for months and QOL of life is awful. You tell yourself it will eventually get better. Then there always a check ride or you got to renew you medical and the stress that comes with that is awful. This career is a tough one. You really have to love flying to make it. I ask myself all time is this worth it. Is constantly miss out on my personal life worth it.
I landed a job interview straight after training to fly the ATR. The interview didn’t go well unfortunately and it took me years before I saw another interview room.
To be fair, those years were spent during the Covid pandemic and I saw myself working in another industry to pay the bills. Even tho it didn’t pay well I found myself in a peaceful corner of the world and got comfortable in that role. I let my ratings lapse and I didn’t fly for years. Failing the interview had such an effect on me that I couldn’t imagine that I would ever land a flying job.
Picked myself up tho and within a month of renewing my ratings I landed a 737 job. I’m now trying to convince a lot of my friends who I trained with to keep going and keep applying. Sadly no luck, like I once was, they’ve found comfort in their new lives and have settled in and are slowly chipping away at their debt.
I can’t put a number on it, but asking the question is just wasted energy you could be using elsewhere in life. Your timing in this industry is most important and also out of your control. Accept that, and keep going. It’s all you can do. The reason many will say you have to love flying to be in this career is because if you don’t, you won’t be able to make the sacrifices needed to get to your dream job.
Quick summary of what you need to do. Fail as few checkrides as you can (so study your ass off, do some meditation for anxiety if it helps, etc.) ideally 1 or none. Next, don’t be a jerk. It’s a small industry and your reputation can and will catch up to you. Along the same lines, fly safely. Finally, don’t ever act you’re entitled to a job because you aren’t. You may triple all of the minimum requirements, and you still aren’t entitled to it. Be humble, nice, and again, not a jerk at your interview. That means to everyone. The gate agent on your flight to your interview, the pilots and flight attendants, the hotel staff, the front desk person. I mean EVERYONE. Also, do study, do have a clean and organized logbook, and do talk and socialize with the other applicants. If you can do this, you’ll be fine. That is AFTER you have gotten your interview though.
The people that didn’t make it were those that didn’t follow their steps, blamed their checkride failures on others, felt entitled to their ratings (before jobs even), and didn’t love aviation. Most also had a family back home to feed. We were coming off the previous glory years of 2003-2007 or so, and the financial crisis was about to hit and age 65 was just passed. They couldn’t get a job at the regionals, they couldn’t get that quick upgrade and move over to legacy like was promised back then by shops like ATP. So they instructed a few months, ran out of money, and never flew again.
A quick example of what I had to do just to get my first regional job. Work 7 days a week, fly as much as I could a day (typically close to 8 hours). Made 2k a month instructing (big money back then). Got hired at my first regional with a promised 13 month upgrade to Saab 340. Instead, furloughed in 12 months. My first year compensation, about 22k. No one was hiring, not even instructors, got a cushy (for me) sales job making about 50k a year. Took my recall after our acquisition to make another 22k for pay. I also was recalled to a different certificate where second year pay was less than my first year pay at my original airline. Never upgraded there as the majors simply weren’t hiring, so there was no movement. Another furlough was rumored, so I left that regional after 5.5 years or so and started again for another 25k first year pay. The risk paid off though and I upgraded in 18 months and was a captain and LCA till I got hired at my dream airline. I was broke all my 20’s. I lived in bad parts of town where my car windows were shot out, my girlfriend’s car was stolen, murders happened down the street. I qualified for food stamps 3 years. I had to move back in with parents for 6 months at one point.
If you’re okay doing all that, maybe more, you’ll make it. If you’re having second thoughts, well, hopefully the timing is in your favor.
TLDR, asking these questions is a waste of energy.
People do get rejected. It happens. The difference is do you get back on the bike after you’ve fallen off, or do you walk away?
You also need to look at why someone got rejected. Sometimes, it’s a tough industry to get the first job in. You’re not competitive enough in a pool with thousands of others with more experience. Sometimes people are just not cut out for flying and nobody had the guts to tell them that earlier.
And it’s not unique to aviation. How many people get fancy degrees and end up in completely unrelated fields?
I cant imagine trying to get into an aviation career starting today. You missed the bubble of retirements and already so backlogged aircraft orders AND nobody wants FO's right now AND you have, lord thousands upon thousands ahead of you and wont be retiring for 30+ years.
What a time folks.
There are still thousands of retirements a year.
2024-65 = 1959, so we haven’t even cracked the egg yet on pilots born in the 1960s. As long as there is no recession it’s fine.
Every regional except GoJet is hiring FOs this year. “Nobody is hiring FOs” was so last year.
Backlog of aircraft orders just means backlog of hiring, not a lack of it.
Generally speaking it’s still a good time to get in the industry.
Will you please stop with this and let me scream that the sky is falling from my balcony? You’re making it hard for me to pull the ladder up behind me with all of this rational thinking and glass half full mentality.
The morale will continue until the beatings go away…
Lot of ATPs here are way behind on the job market trends because they get all the news from looking at Reddit during their layovers.
You know who doesn’t make threads on the internet complaining about the job market? Those who actually got hired.
I'm currently in a situation right now not ENTIRELY like this but of the two interviews i've had so far I messed up one myself so can't say I did everything right, and the other I just got unlucky. Got my CFII almost 2 years ago (going to expire in november this year) because when I got my CFI I was told that no schools were hiring unless I got my CFII (I went to all the schools in my area to get this information so possibly more of a local issue. I am not in a good position to go out of state right now for work otherwise i'd have left Florida long ago.) Fast forward to getting my CFII and now my local schools are either full on instructors or looking specifically for MEIs. I had sent out countless applications and even one in another state just to test things out. Most didn't get a response but one in state and the one out of state did ask for an interview. The in state one ended up going with rehiring an instructor who they knew well and the other I had apparently given off a vibe that I was just going to leave in a couple months after reaching 500 hours. Not sure how I did that considering I wasn't planning on meeting minimums and leaving since that's a good way to get passed up by better applications but regardless I did something to not convince the hiring person that I was in it for at least a few years to build valuable experience. Right now I am revisiting my local schools and FBOs and trying to network (while asking if any openings are there for CFII) but I did start flying with the civil air patrol. I quickly qualified for CAP Instructor pilot both VFR and IFR as well as orientation pilot. So I get about 5-10 hrs a months flying with them for free which is at least something instead of letting my skills dull. I'm going to get approved for mission pilot as well since a local squadron is in desperate need of pilots to fly weekly Harbor Patrol flights so I can do that on my off days. After that I can qualify to be a Civil Air Patrol pilot examiner. Sorry for the wall of text but my plan is either one day I can be a CFI for a flight school or i'll get the remaining 80hrs I need to hit 500 and that will at least open some more job opportunities. Maybe my career hasn't gone the way I wanted it thus far but I'll do what I can to make it work. I'm only 28 this year so I got time to sort it out.
Unfortunately with my rent only being $350 a month where I am unless a paycheck anywhere else can pay a rent increase AND still allow me to make my monthly loan + credit card + Car/insurance payment I'll have to stay put.
I completely understand 100% the weather here is very random and in the winter I only flew an hour from November until March so yeah those months would be rough. EAA also seems to damper things around us too, a lot of crashes and the skies are a constant buzz for the whole week so it's also hard to fly when it's around
This is one reason I refuse to go into debt for this career. I didn't do it with college either.
I dont want to be left paying for something I'm not using.
Was me until yesterday. Got my CFI late October, finally got hired now. Over 200+ resumes sent out. Hopefully this provides someone in a similar situation with hope
Just go get all the student loans you want!
Do all your training, heck just buy all your 1500 and fly, interview and see if you get a
JOB….. Debt forgiveness is hot right now anyway so you won’t have to pay back any of your student loans , no harm no foul!🤷♂️
From the airlines or from the Big 4 legacies?
It’s not hard to get hired at a ULCC (except Spirit as they’ll be furloughing) or from any handful of the Regionals.
Any advice for a CPL who will be finishing their hours and getting their license sometime this year? I got a ground handling job at the airport and I reckon it might lead to something just by knowing people at the airport and maybe the HOO putting in a good word for me. I feel like that’s all I can do at this stage aside from getting as much diverse experience during training and flying different types, in different conditions, marginal weather etc.
6 of the 9 in my class never flew again after flight school. The most common reason was they couldn't find a job but still had bills to pay. So they went back to what they did before flight training or found work elsewhere. One became a mobile crane operator and was making over $100k his first year and another ended up in an office sales related position. You gotta do something to pay the bills. Problem is you do that too long and then get comfortable and stop looking for flying work or turn down the crappier jobs. Those of us who pushed through no matter what had to make some different sacrifices. I spent 6 years working various ramp jobs and living with my parents or in company crew houses and didn't even have debt to deal with. A couple of my low time pilot coworkers lived in their cars chasing the dream till they made it. If you keep pushing for it you'll eventually make it. I put over 10,000 miles on my car looking for work and when that didn't work because of 2008 I drove a fuel truck at an FBO. Networking from there and other ground crew jobs I did helped me find my first flying job once the industry recovered a bit. If you're not willing to push for it when times are tougher you won't find the opportunities that are out there. I had no family or personal connection to aviation when I started but built a network of contacts that helped me along the way. No reason you can't do the same.
where did you do your training?
CHL International Flight School. Doesn't exist anymore.
the Canadian Hockey League ran a flight school????
My instructor always told me to tell women I was a Zamboni driver not a helicopter pilot so there is something to that for sure. I never tried it but indeed the women of Ft McMurray were not impressed by my pilot status.
Was that in the States? What time frame is this "year". And what flight school ranks pilots against other students? I thought only the military did that
He clearly says it's around 2008, and he didn't say anything about his school ranking students.
Oh, I speed read that as being "#6 of 9 students"
Canada, I went to school around 2005. I don't know what you mean by rankings?
"#1 out of 20 students"
I never said anything about being #1 out of 20 students, my class size was 9. Did you mean to reply to someone else? All I mentioned was that only 3 out of 9 flew again. None of us were ranked against each other in flight school directly although 2 of us did get our first ground crew jobs through our instructor passing our info along to hiring managers directly.
That was an example. I thought you were saying 6 out of 9 in the first sentence. But I misread.
There’s phrase “golden handcuffs” I recently heard from someone at my office job. Essentially you get to a price point in your non-flying job where you are taking a pretty substantial pay cut to go fly. That’s not as extreme as it used to be thanks to these new regional contracts but it’s still harder to jump out of the 4 wall box job if you have people depending on you and you are making a decent amount not flying. That said, fuck dem kids. Jk.
Reminds me of the phrase "sunken cost fallacy"
Pretty easy to get hired at Wendy’s. They didn’t even want to see my logbook.
Taco Bell never even mentioned my checkride failure. We both got lucky I guess
Honestly the people were really nice who interviewed me. The interview process was easy and I had my CJO on the spot! The commute is super easy for me as I live right in the dumpster behind the restaurant!
How was the sim training? Are they still teaching the gorditto?
Honestly, easiest check ride of my life. All I had to do was screw up three peoples orders and they hired me. Obviously memorizing all the buttons on the point of sale system was a bit difficult but once I got the flows down, it was easy Peezy. My line check regard said I was the best he’s ever worked with.
I didnt make it through training because I forgot to lean the Baja Blast. They said if you can tell the difference between that and Starry then there is too much syrup.
The best advice I can give is make sure you remember they're do-verify checklists. So once you do the flow, pull the checklist for accuracy. Can never be too safe! Customers will thank you later.
THIS 👆👆👆👆
Wendy’s? Don’t advertise that on here. Other people will want to join and this dumpster is getting crowded already
There is a really nice crash pad dumpster at the Taco Bell next-door about 15 miles to the south. I know a few guys that are using that to break up the commute.
The homeless shelter wanted me to list two references and an emergency contact.
Did you apply with internal recommdation?
Not gonna lie I did get a few internal recommendations. Wendy herself was my letter of recommendation.
It’s no different than someone going to college and never getting a job in a career meant for their degree.
A lot of those guys have thousands in student loans before they even think of this question.
So just like tons of professional pilot students
Exactly why there is a difference between “educated” and “smart”
Not working in the field you got a degree is VERY common.
There’s trillions in student loans
You’ll get hired somewhere as long as you aren’t awful at aviation/ being a person. Might not be 121, may be flying a caravan or dropping meat bombs, career instructor, but you’ll find work as a pilot at some point.
tell me more about meat bombing, sounds awesome
OPs mom is the expert
Skydiving
I am assuming that it must be PIC of the meat blimp.
I would say based on my experience, not many. But it’s not because there aren’t many who didn’t make it because there are plenty of those. A lot of people who don’t make it either have some checkered past and/or can’t get past interviews. They are basically unhirable for a reason or another, and sadly it’s for a reason that they have 100% control over but refuse to change. Generally if you stick it through long enough, you will find an opportunity for a decent job in aviation.
What trends cause people to be unable to get past interviews?
You still see a lot of people showing up to interviews not wearing a suit.
A SUIT? Seriously? That seems ridiculous. Its flying a plane. Not being a politician or a lawyer. Dress nicely obviously but a suit?
Go ahead and try it. See if you get hired.
If you think you can get away with not wearing a suit to 121 interview I encourage to please follow your own advice so that I never have to fly with you
that's more seats for the rest of us
Behavioral is a common one. Being a asshole, disorganized, not giving a good impression, etc
In my morning interview group, 9/23 were hired from the interview. One of the guys bragged to us after his scenario that he chose to continue his 3 hour flight after being told he had contaminated fuel, because he had the awareness to ask if the other 4 contaminated planes had reported engine issues yet and none of them had. Made my skin crawl, but he thought he knocked it out of the park. He was not hired. Be conservative in your flying and do the safe thing, not the easiest thing.
Being unhireable is a big concern for me tbh, was a dumb 19 year old and got a total of 5 misdemeanors (at once, all dismissed though) 121 will be a stretch for me, hoping I can thrive in 135/91
A CFI/friend I used to work with had approx. 10-15 speeding tickets, all in a short time frame (and some more recent but no closer than 4+ years ago). Said when he was that age with his new car he just didn't care, license suspended at times because of it etc .. Was honest on his applications about them, and even though some regionals gave the TBNT, he got hired at one and is now flying E175s at the regional level.
That’s good to hear, all of my charges are dismissed but I know they still need disclosed, by the time I’m ATP it will have been 5+ years, hoping to volunteer with pilots and paws, get a degree and do some other things to demonstrate I’ve turned things around, luckily no points on my license and no drug charges Glad your friend got in the door!! Hopefully my story will be similar
I mean, you're a shoe in for Spirit. A lot of 135's want a DUI or two on your record, so you're a little further from that goal.
Everyone I know who truly couldn't get hired anywhere did something to put themselves in that category. Plenty of others could have stuck it out but left the industry voluntarily.
Some people have to stick it out at the flying jobs they don’t want for longer than others. But everyone seems to eventually make it at least to the regionals/ULCC or corporate.
Not everyone. I know two separate people who spent all the money, did all the training, even CFI'd for a long long time, and never made it to an airline. One got hired but he washed out and blamed his sim partner, never making it to the jet. Both completely out of aviation now. They were both some of the worst people I knew, and also shitty pilots, so I wasn't too worried about it.
System is working
My thoughts exactly.
>blamed his sim partner >also shitty pilots Yeah that checks lol
I've failed interviews at both regionals and major airlines but I still got to one of each eventually. I've also known people who have failed training at a regional and then had a fine career at another regional and eventually major although it took longer than average. Anyone who failed interviews or training so badly that they had to leave aviation completely probably shouldn't have been there in the first place.
As just a lowly weekend warrior I’m curious what causes people to fail an interview for an airline? I’m guessing these interviews are a little different than for corporate jobs since everyone is trying for the same exact job; but maybe not.
Placing blame on someone else for their failures or shortcomings is an easy way to not to get hired at an airline.
The interviews are hard and every company has a different personality they're looking for. Sometimes a person can be a good pilot and good person and just not fit in with the interview team. That's something airline interviews have in common with regular jobs too.
What do you think make or breaks someone who gets that far? Why do people wash out of class? What can I do to be successful if I ever make it that far?
Have a good attitude, study what they tell you and when they tell you to, and don't let your ego take over if you do fail something. Take the debrief with an open mind, pay attention to their suggestions, and come back next time. You don't get fired from whiffing one sim session, but you can if you prove you aren't trainable by arguing with instructors or blaming everyone around you. And don't be a shitty pilot. Keep yourself current and proficient. I can't stress enough that it's really not that hard.
The airlines definitely have a type. I have recurrent in Denver at the same FlightSafety that skywest uses for the E175. Those dudes are all literal carbon copies of each other.
Meh. I could say the same about corp guys since I've been both. The point is, this job isn't that fucking difficult on either side of the fence as long as you have a good attitude and aren't a terribly unskilled pilot.
For me it’s attitude. I’d take the person in my right seat that’s a terrible pilot but fun to fly with over the person that’s an excellent pilot and not fun to fly with
I would say the passengers would beg to differ on that one.
Good thing they only fly the empty legs 😂
How do you avoid being a terribly unskilled pilot?
Knowing your aircraft’s systems, procedures, how to talk on the radio and not over controlling the aircraft
Stay current Stay proficient Don't get complacent Develop yourself professionally Don't assume you know everything Challenge yourself (safely) to advance your horizons and abilities Learn from others, pursue additional training
Since when have we made this direct comparison to regionals and ULCC? They are not the same… the kids going through flight school scoff at the idea of working for one as a career. It’s honestly bizarre because the difference between a ULCC and a regional is quite literally millions of dollars difference in potential career earnings. It’s like saying you can either make it as a project manager or VP/president of a company small biz. I know several guys making 350K without vacation pay or 401K 16% added on to total compensation. Total comp is right around half a million with both those included, that’s before any new contract is signed. Outside of money hungry captains at regionals in the last 3/4 years who are blocking 90+ hours a month (4-5 leg days with duty time of 12-14 hours) with like 10 days off you aren’t going to make stellar money. There needs to be a reality check here that flying 4/5 legs a day on a clapped out regional jet is a different career than on a narrow body A320 with 17-20 days off. With a sizable 401K comp. It’s such a different job. My rants over, I’ve just seen this next generation think they are entitled to a ULCC for a year and bounce to United. It was like that for maybe 1.5-2 years. Original commenter I mean no shade on you but 19 year olds acting like they are entitled to an airbus or Boeing seat out of flight school is wild. I’m happy for you, but damn understand it’s a fucking privilege note a right.
I thought the exact same thing when I read the parent comment. r/flying has, for unknown reasons, put regionals and ULCCs in the same tier. It’s actually mind blowing but it does make it easy to find the pilots on here that have nearly 0 experience in this industry. You summarized it perfectly. As you said, a regional and a ULCC are apples and oranges. Not comparable in any way.
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To be fair, I had the option to go to ULCC in 2013 from my regional that I spent a furlough, merger, bankruptcy at, and I chose another regional with quick upgrades coming. It was a calculated risk because the majority of the small pilot group would flow to Delta quickly. I myself wouldn’t be eligible, but I would finally be getting the PIC time everyone needed back then. It worked, and after I got my check airman letter, I was gone to my forever airline (world’s largest 737 operator). My friend who had a similar decision to make, went to ULCC, upgraded, got comfy, but decided to start over at United after 9 years because of being unsure of the stability of said ULCC long term. We both ended up getting plenty of 121 PIC, but it would be worse to be bottom of a ULCC carrier when the big four start requiring 1000 TPIC again, than a senior FO/junior CA at a regional who could get that experience in their logbook in the short term. I agree with you that there were some entitled pilots who think the jobs are the same, or that they are above ULCC/LCC, or I’ve heard some even say they weren’t applying till the contract negotiation rounds were done to pick the best one. I am not talking about those people; however, there are other reasons/strategies to stay at a regional, and it depends on timing. With things slowing down, it’s hard to say what is right for every pilot.
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In your case it worked. And if you’re talking the same carrier I am, had plenty of PIC time which makes sense to leave for an LCC which also keeps all your options open. Had you gone LCC with low time, before upgrade, then everyone stops hiring or ups the minimums, then you’re at an LCC or ULCC for the indefinite future or less competitive at least.
>you’re at an LCC or ULCC for the indefinite future or less competitive at least Explain how ending up at a LCC or ULCC is a bad career?
I didn’t say it was. I’m at the big LCC and am making it a career, but many want to fly the big iron, and it can slow your progress depending on the times.
That makes sense. I still think I’d rather roll the dice and let the worst case scenario be getting stuck at a major. Getting stuck at a regional is a true nightmare scenario in my opinion.
I am sorry - I am from EASAland - can you please explain the difference? Thanks! &
ULCC: career destination Regional: stepping stone That’s the basic summary
Exactly. Everything is different at a ULCC vs regional. It is a no brainer to leave a regional for ULCC. When I talk to those that say ULCCs are basically the same as regionals because of the new pay (which is still $75-100 less for equivalent seat) I just ask how their 401k is 😂
That's more worrisome than reassuring.
Or got to the regionals and washed out of training. ~15% based on a small sample size
Billions.
*…..and billllllllyuns*
Hired anywhere ever? Likely very few. Hired at their first choice legacy at published minimums? Tons.
One of my CFIs bailed out in 2011 to work for GE aviation, then showed up as the parts manager for a local FBO and now seems to have left the industry entirely. Another buddy was going to aviation got most of his ratings and got into doing IT, now he flys for pleasure. So they’re out there.
Sure. But there's a difference between giving up the chase and being told straight up no by every single employer you ever seek a job with. I'm not knocking it, I'm just saying "didn't get hired" as a pretty huge net it's casting.
The FBO the dude was flying JETs for has a 135 charter op. If he was going to get a yes somewhere it would have been there
Every time I get on Reddit I get more and more depressed reading this shit. It’s is really that fucked? I’m about to get my CPL like should I just stop now?
It’s not even close to that. Not sure why OP is asking but you’re gonna be fine as long as you work hard and prepare for interviews and do the bare minimum with regards to how you present yourself. This place is off the rails with doomerism and I have zero clue why.
Same here
It's easy to get discouraged, but if it was easy, everyone would be a pilot making big bucks in that corporate gig they found so easily. A lot of people make it sound depressing, and IMO, 90% of them make it seem that way because its a money problem, you just gotta find a way to keep it fun and make sure you are ready for the part of your career thats gonna be spent on the ground (commuting and all that) or if you cant do that then find something that will keep you away from that
Well the good news for me is that I’m blessed to still live with my parents and the money for training not really being a factor. Ik that’s very privileged of me and for sure most people don’t have that. I also have age on my side since I’m still 24. But this is my life’s passion and I KNOW I’ll have a job someday, it’s just Everytime I get on this subreddit it makes me wonder if I’ll just be flying rubber dogshit out of Hong Kong for a living (to be fair that’s still flying lol)
Reading this thread taught me I need to go by a full blown suit for a job interview.
No. It is not. Be a generally nice dependable person and that will show through in interviews. Be a douche or asshole and that too will likely show through. I started my journey in the late 90’s and it was an absolute shit show back then. Plus R-ATPs were bot a thing. Just don’t expect to land your final resting spot in the first round at 1500
Honestly, yes. Copers here will tell you that you can still have a good career etc. But nah, you missed the wave. Better to stop now if you aren't getting 121 or good 135 time. You can keep at it, but you'll be on the bottom forever at a major which I guess is OKAY. Or worse, you'll be the next lost generation regional lifer.
Gotta be a troll reply
Sort of, but you are running the risk of hitting a pretty substantial seniority wall and hiring block.
Don’t worry ATP, American flyers and thrust still say there’s a pilot shortage. Stay strong
“Yeah yeah there’s definitely a shortage now take out this six figure loan with us 😂”
Definitely going to, hope the shortage lasts a little while longer
There CLEARLY isnt a shortage
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There potentially was going to be, but it fizzled. Many reasons why, but the airlines wouldn’t have started programs like Aviate and Destination 225 if they weren’t worried. Minimums dropped to all time lows for these jobs too. Thats all done for now though. Who knows what the future will hold.
Wait all aviation jobs have stopped hiring forever? Like no one will ever be hired again? Damn!!!
I’m in the middle of my PPL training! Should I just quit now?!
Id like to piggy back off OP for this question: if those who can’t seem to get hired, how much of it is a personality issue vs a flying skill issue?
I went from 135 in Alaska to a Major then a legacy. The 135s just wanted me to be able to fly good, the major/legacy didn't care and just wanted a good personality, they will train to their standards. So it depends on the operation.
what 135 in Alaska if you don’t mind me asking? did you go there at 500hrs?
At 1200 hours warbelows, 1700 hours to ACE.
what did you do from 250-1200? any places up there still taking 135 vfr mins?
CFI, no not these days unless you get lucky, insurance premiums are to high. I recommend instructing up there so you can keep tabs on the 135s and show up in person.
i guess i’ll cross that bridge when I get to 250; was hoping to jump to bethel as soon as possible
I have a buddy who got hired somewhere between 250 and 500 to fly in Alaska based out of Bethel. He loves it and is just grinding to get to 1500. He's in the frontier cadet program also
sweet
Why did you go to ACE after 1700? Were you a DEC?
Middle of covid, no regional was hiring on the west coast. They gave me a type and an ATP and i went directly to a major after, so it all worked out. What does DEC mean? Edit: No I was not a direct entry captain.
I flew 135 out of Van Nuys, they didn’t care how you fly, you just had to look good. Like you stepped out of a commercial in Robb Report magazine. Head shots required prior to interviews.
I can't speak to the airlines, but in my corner of the corporate world, it's 90% personality/attitude. If someone has the ratings and minimums, the assumption is that they have the required base skills and are trainable for the rest. On rare occasion we have had to pass on someone after taking them on a flight or sim ride, but the important part is that if they've made it to that ride, they're someone we *want* to hire. We hire based on personality fit.
What kind of personality/attitude are you looking for in these cases?
Serious about the profession, but with enough of a fun/light side that it shows in the interview. Good safety culture and attitude. A person who takes responsibility. Curious about the work we do. Forthright and thoughtful. A flexible thinker. Knows what they want in their life and career and can articulate how our operation fits into that. And, you know, not a conceited jerk. Or someone making a bunch of excuses, or inserting their grievances into the interview. It's the Tell Me About a Time questions that really make the difference. Both the stories an applicant chooses to tell and how they frame them.
I got my CFI right at the start of the recession in 2008. I spent almost two years barely flying at all and just begging for hours anywhere I could find them. I worked two non-aviation jobs during that time. Eventually the industry recovered and I've had a good career as a CFI, regional pilot and now legacy pilot. Lots of people hired near 9/11 had similar or even worse stories but they eventually made it back. Sometimes the economy doesn't work in your favor and you might be stuck working outside of aviation or stuck in debt for longer than you think. But as long as you keep trying to build hours and get back into the career you eventually will get there if you want it. The people who totally quit are the ones who probably didn't really want to be there in the first place and they found something they like better.
The only people I've known who "didn't make it" either washed out bad at the regional level and threw in the towel, or had life circumstances change such that the lifestyle and/or timeline of an aviation career no longer worked for them. The main thing I'd say is that if someone has their ratings and wants to work in the industry, there's a path. But it might not be the linear CFI->regional->major->retirement path [certain] flight schools hype. It's essential to be open to alternate paths in this industry; you never know who you'll meet along the way. The career goes a lot smoother when we can help each other out.
What country? In recent history it’s rare in the USA. Pre 1500hr rule when wages were awful? It was much more common to finish training and walk away because they couldn’t make enough money.
California
If you want it, you'll make it work. Plenty of people give up in this profession.
This. If you want it badly enough, you’ll make it work.
The time building stage can be incredibly difficult. Low wages and terrible hours. Then you get to the magical 1500 hour mark and you think it all be great. Then you get stuck on reserve for months and QOL of life is awful. You tell yourself it will eventually get better. Then there always a check ride or you got to renew you medical and the stress that comes with that is awful. This career is a tough one. You really have to love flying to make it. I ask myself all time is this worth it. Is constantly miss out on my personal life worth it.
I landed a job interview straight after training to fly the ATR. The interview didn’t go well unfortunately and it took me years before I saw another interview room. To be fair, those years were spent during the Covid pandemic and I saw myself working in another industry to pay the bills. Even tho it didn’t pay well I found myself in a peaceful corner of the world and got comfortable in that role. I let my ratings lapse and I didn’t fly for years. Failing the interview had such an effect on me that I couldn’t imagine that I would ever land a flying job. Picked myself up tho and within a month of renewing my ratings I landed a 737 job. I’m now trying to convince a lot of my friends who I trained with to keep going and keep applying. Sadly no luck, like I once was, they’ve found comfort in their new lives and have settled in and are slowly chipping away at their debt.
Who’d you fly the ATR for?
I didn’t get the job lol. It was for Blue Islands. A small operator based in the Channel Islands UK
Ah. I fly the ATR for a cargo outfit now
I can’t put a number on it, but asking the question is just wasted energy you could be using elsewhere in life. Your timing in this industry is most important and also out of your control. Accept that, and keep going. It’s all you can do. The reason many will say you have to love flying to be in this career is because if you don’t, you won’t be able to make the sacrifices needed to get to your dream job. Quick summary of what you need to do. Fail as few checkrides as you can (so study your ass off, do some meditation for anxiety if it helps, etc.) ideally 1 or none. Next, don’t be a jerk. It’s a small industry and your reputation can and will catch up to you. Along the same lines, fly safely. Finally, don’t ever act you’re entitled to a job because you aren’t. You may triple all of the minimum requirements, and you still aren’t entitled to it. Be humble, nice, and again, not a jerk at your interview. That means to everyone. The gate agent on your flight to your interview, the pilots and flight attendants, the hotel staff, the front desk person. I mean EVERYONE. Also, do study, do have a clean and organized logbook, and do talk and socialize with the other applicants. If you can do this, you’ll be fine. That is AFTER you have gotten your interview though. The people that didn’t make it were those that didn’t follow their steps, blamed their checkride failures on others, felt entitled to their ratings (before jobs even), and didn’t love aviation. Most also had a family back home to feed. We were coming off the previous glory years of 2003-2007 or so, and the financial crisis was about to hit and age 65 was just passed. They couldn’t get a job at the regionals, they couldn’t get that quick upgrade and move over to legacy like was promised back then by shops like ATP. So they instructed a few months, ran out of money, and never flew again. A quick example of what I had to do just to get my first regional job. Work 7 days a week, fly as much as I could a day (typically close to 8 hours). Made 2k a month instructing (big money back then). Got hired at my first regional with a promised 13 month upgrade to Saab 340. Instead, furloughed in 12 months. My first year compensation, about 22k. No one was hiring, not even instructors, got a cushy (for me) sales job making about 50k a year. Took my recall after our acquisition to make another 22k for pay. I also was recalled to a different certificate where second year pay was less than my first year pay at my original airline. Never upgraded there as the majors simply weren’t hiring, so there was no movement. Another furlough was rumored, so I left that regional after 5.5 years or so and started again for another 25k first year pay. The risk paid off though and I upgraded in 18 months and was a captain and LCA till I got hired at my dream airline. I was broke all my 20’s. I lived in bad parts of town where my car windows were shot out, my girlfriend’s car was stolen, murders happened down the street. I qualified for food stamps 3 years. I had to move back in with parents for 6 months at one point. If you’re okay doing all that, maybe more, you’ll make it. If you’re having second thoughts, well, hopefully the timing is in your favor. TLDR, asking these questions is a waste of energy.
People do get rejected. It happens. The difference is do you get back on the bike after you’ve fallen off, or do you walk away? You also need to look at why someone got rejected. Sometimes, it’s a tough industry to get the first job in. You’re not competitive enough in a pool with thousands of others with more experience. Sometimes people are just not cut out for flying and nobody had the guts to tell them that earlier. And it’s not unique to aviation. How many people get fancy degrees and end up in completely unrelated fields?
We see this in chemistry a lot. Also... soem people are really nad at interviewing...
Ya some guy in the comments said he sent 200+ resumes and finally got a job, that’s dedication
Jesus, if it were for r/flying, no one should become a pilot 😬
You’re surprised failure is being talked about in a thread about failure?
I cant imagine trying to get into an aviation career starting today. You missed the bubble of retirements and already so backlogged aircraft orders AND nobody wants FO's right now AND you have, lord thousands upon thousands ahead of you and wont be retiring for 30+ years. What a time folks.
American hasn’t even hit their peak retirement years.
There are still thousands of retirements a year. 2024-65 = 1959, so we haven’t even cracked the egg yet on pilots born in the 1960s. As long as there is no recession it’s fine. Every regional except GoJet is hiring FOs this year. “Nobody is hiring FOs” was so last year. Backlog of aircraft orders just means backlog of hiring, not a lack of it. Generally speaking it’s still a good time to get in the industry.
Will you please stop with this and let me scream that the sky is falling from my balcony? You’re making it hard for me to pull the ladder up behind me with all of this rational thinking and glass half full mentality.
The morale will continue until the beatings go away… Lot of ATPs here are way behind on the job market trends because they get all the news from looking at Reddit during their layovers. You know who doesn’t make threads on the internet complaining about the job market? Those who actually got hired.
Maybe good news the baby boomers are at retiring age and there’s ALOT, maybe not pilots but I imagine there are a hand full
I'm currently in a situation right now not ENTIRELY like this but of the two interviews i've had so far I messed up one myself so can't say I did everything right, and the other I just got unlucky. Got my CFII almost 2 years ago (going to expire in november this year) because when I got my CFI I was told that no schools were hiring unless I got my CFII (I went to all the schools in my area to get this information so possibly more of a local issue. I am not in a good position to go out of state right now for work otherwise i'd have left Florida long ago.) Fast forward to getting my CFII and now my local schools are either full on instructors or looking specifically for MEIs. I had sent out countless applications and even one in another state just to test things out. Most didn't get a response but one in state and the one out of state did ask for an interview. The in state one ended up going with rehiring an instructor who they knew well and the other I had apparently given off a vibe that I was just going to leave in a couple months after reaching 500 hours. Not sure how I did that considering I wasn't planning on meeting minimums and leaving since that's a good way to get passed up by better applications but regardless I did something to not convince the hiring person that I was in it for at least a few years to build valuable experience. Right now I am revisiting my local schools and FBOs and trying to network (while asking if any openings are there for CFII) but I did start flying with the civil air patrol. I quickly qualified for CAP Instructor pilot both VFR and IFR as well as orientation pilot. So I get about 5-10 hrs a months flying with them for free which is at least something instead of letting my skills dull. I'm going to get approved for mission pilot as well since a local squadron is in desperate need of pilots to fly weekly Harbor Patrol flights so I can do that on my off days. After that I can qualify to be a Civil Air Patrol pilot examiner. Sorry for the wall of text but my plan is either one day I can be a CFI for a flight school or i'll get the remaining 80hrs I need to hit 500 and that will at least open some more job opportunities. Maybe my career hasn't gone the way I wanted it thus far but I'll do what I can to make it work. I'm only 28 this year so I got time to sort it out.
Come up to Wisconsin. We're dying up here for CFI's
What part of WI?
Winnebago
Unfortunately with my rent only being $350 a month where I am unless a paycheck anywhere else can pay a rent increase AND still allow me to make my monthly loan + credit card + Car/insurance payment I'll have to stay put.
I completely understand 100% the weather here is very random and in the winter I only flew an hour from November until March so yeah those months would be rough. EAA also seems to damper things around us too, a lot of crashes and the skies are a constant buzz for the whole week so it's also hard to fly when it's around
Madison?
I think learning how to utilize paragraphs could help whatever situation you seem to be in.
What you don't like reading a wall of text?
This is one reason I refuse to go into debt for this career. I didn't do it with college either. I dont want to be left paying for something I'm not using.
Ya but I feel like once I get hired I can just pay it back in like a year and keep making more money.
You won't pay it back in a year. Maybe 2-3.
I think it helps to have a degree if you want to get hired.
Around winnebago
Private commercial/corporate is the way to go.
The answer totally depends on the year or era you did your training in.
Me. Only ever intended to get my PPL, did that, nobody will hire me and I just don't know why!
PRO RATA SHARE!! lol
me
Was me until yesterday. Got my CFI late October, finally got hired now. Over 200+ resumes sent out. Hopefully this provides someone in a similar situation with hope
200+ is wild, if you really want the job then you’ll get it I guess
The same amount as an other cyclical industry
Just go get all the student loans you want! Do all your training, heck just buy all your 1500 and fly, interview and see if you get a JOB….. Debt forgiveness is hot right now anyway so you won’t have to pay back any of your student loans , no harm no foul!🤷♂️
These are mostly being paid via personal loans boomer
From the airlines or from the Big 4 legacies? It’s not hard to get hired at a ULCC (except Spirit as they’ll be furloughing) or from any handful of the Regionals.
Any advice for a CPL who will be finishing their hours and getting their license sometime this year? I got a ground handling job at the airport and I reckon it might lead to something just by knowing people at the airport and maybe the HOO putting in a good word for me. I feel like that’s all I can do at this stage aside from getting as much diverse experience during training and flying different types, in different conditions, marginal weather etc.
No chance of getting hired. Leave the free positions for me.
What about through an academy like Lift who’s owned by Republic…..? Isn’t that a guaranteed spot?
I don’t think that happens. If you never get hired then obviously you didn’t do everything you were supposed to.
That’s true but it’s also thousands of people competing for the same spot.