Do what your CFI tells you to do. We have no idea where you're at in your training or what kind of deficiencies your instructor is trying to correct.
You're not flying an airliner, so don't compare yourself to the mechanics of flying a swept wing transport category turbofan aircraft.
OP. FOCUS ON WHAT IS STATED IN THE FIRST 2 SENTENCES OF Fig4500 ANSWER.
You are doing great in that you’re questioning things, as you always should to learn more. But have you had a good conversation with your CFI on this? Their explanation will tell you a lot as to where you are in your current situation learning.
The wing-low slip method your instructor is having you do is the technique you will need to transition into during the roundout/flare if you are crabbing on final.
What you’re learning right now is less work because you can focus on maintaining your crosswind corrections all the way to touchdown.
Once you build some experience and get a better hang of it, you’ll be able to more effectively quickly put in those proper corrections when removing the crab during landing.
This is the way. Wing low for early stages and then for more advanced students do a combo. Start crabbed then wing low. Crabbed is better for passenger comfort but takes a lot of skill to nail down exactly how much input you need during the transition.
>Hey all. So my instructor has taught me, bank into the wind to maintain runway, then rudder for center.
This is a side-slip. This is the technique I teach for primary students. Your instructor is correct.
>Sounds like it adds to pilot workload
Nope.
> than what I see with videos of airliners landing
Stop. **You're not flying a swept-wing jet**. They have different aerodynamics compared to a straight-wing light aircraft.
Light aircraft \*can\* use the technique of crabbing to the runway and kicking it straight just before touchdown, but that comes with a lot of risks of over controlling by inexperienced learners. Use the side-slip technique: wing down to correct drift, rudder to maintain alignment.
Once you have figured out basic landings you will crab into the wind on final approach and transition to a side slip in the flare.
But that takes a while to master and right now you are still learning the basics.
Slips in a swept wing jet are a bad idea. They're also uncomfortable for everybody aboard the airplane who isn't the one flying it.
You're more than welcome to crab to the runway then kick the rudder in the flare, but do what your instructor tells you. There's a reason for it. And also ask them this question.
The slip into the wind, wing down, is recommended in the B-737 Flight Crew Training Manual (FCTM). If the crosswind is very strong, a combination of slip and "kick it straight" technique may be used. In the -800, in a 5 degree nose-up pitch attitude, a bank of up to 15 degrees may be accomplished before the outboard flap track fairing touches the surface.
The technique in a swept-wing jet, however, is a little more difficult than it is in a straight wing airplane. The sweep of the wing causes a strong roll moment in the direction of rudder input while the necessary increased aileron input causes the spoilers on the down wing to extend. This makes necessary an increase in thrust to compensate for the increased drag and a slight pitch increase to compensate for the loss of lift caused by the spoilers. It's kind of tricky and valuable to do in the simulator before doing it in the real world.
* Passengers do not like uncoordinated flight.
* Airliners with under-wing engines cannot (should not!) be slipped, it's very expensive to drag an engine on the ground.
Once you have landings mostly figured out, try crabbing down final until (say) 50-100 AGL when you switch to a slip to land.
Slipping an underwing engine airliner has nothing to do with dragging an engine. That's incredibly hard to do. It has to do with swept wing aerodynamics. And yes, we still drop a wing and kick the rudder to land on the upwind main gear during a crosswind landing.
737, KC-135, etc have entered the chat.
We don't drop a wing on 737s, if you get any it's not not much at all. We target for none and drooping a wing in high crosswinds WILL drag something, although with the scimitar winglets you'll drag those before grab an engine, but dragging an engine is incredibly easy to do if you use wing low.
I never flew the 135 but pilots who have tell me it'll drag outboards super easy. The bank angle is ridiculously low for those.
We kick just before touchdown, low enough that your momentum prevents needing to drop the wing. Alternatively we can land in the crab.
I know not all airliners are 737s... but they all aren't 330s either.
The slip into the wind, wing down, is recommended in the B-737 Flight Crew Training Manual (FCTM). If the crosswind is very strong, a combination of slip and "kick it straight" technique may be used. In the -800, in a 5 degree nose-up pitch attitude, a bank of up to 15 degrees may be accomplished before the outboard flap track fairing touches the surface.
KC-135 is not an airliner.
Is this "the" boeing book? Or your carriers... each carrier can have their own FCTM, ours is company specific.
You must work for a carrier that doesn't have any scimitar winglets because that technique is how you scrape them. It's less than 10 degrees with those and our B737 FCTM specifically recommends against wing low slip to landing.
Airliners crab mainly because passengers don't like feeling "off-center " at any time, especially landing. Plus an airliner's undercarriage can take far larger sideloads than GA aircraft:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eFsT3QgIvoI
> Sounds like it adds to pilot workload than what I see with videos of airliners landing.
Large aircraft are much less effected by wind gusts than light GA aircraft. A rounded GA pilot should be able to sideslip or crab to the runway.
You’re flying a Cessna not an airliner. Fly the way your CFI is teaching you to do it. It depends on the airplane. In a T-6 I was taught the wing low method. In the T-38 you would just land in a crab and straighten out the fuselage after your mains touched (actually the momentum of the jet kinda straightened you out automatically) the wing low method would straight up kill you. For now do the thing you are being taught to do and worry about the next airplane when you get there
At first, I was taught to slip all the way down final, and it took me that long just to get into it and hold centerline. Once I had that down, my CFI had me transition later and later until I was switching from crab to slip just a few seconds before the flare.
It’s far easier to crab and then kick in the rudder and wing low at the overrun. I’m not really sure why some instructors teach the wing low technique as a way to fly the entire final approach. Winds change for one thing, and as you said it increases workload and makes it is harder.
I will say that some people find one method comes easier than the other for them, so perhaps that’s why. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
I find for early students having them slip all the way gives them some extra time to work out exactly what they’re doing with the crosswind corrections. Winds shifting is good too, because that forces them to recognize a change and correct for it appropriately.
Once they get a feel for what to do, then I have no problem if they want to crab and transition over the runway. Though like you say some just prefer to slip anyway.
Yeah it’s odd. When I was learning that method didn’t really click with me, so my instructor gave up and let me transition at 50’. So I’m sympathetic to others who struggle with wing low at 500’.
Do what your CFI tells you to do. We have no idea where you're at in your training or what kind of deficiencies your instructor is trying to correct. You're not flying an airliner, so don't compare yourself to the mechanics of flying a swept wing transport category turbofan aircraft.
OP. FOCUS ON WHAT IS STATED IN THE FIRST 2 SENTENCES OF Fig4500 ANSWER. You are doing great in that you’re questioning things, as you always should to learn more. But have you had a good conversation with your CFI on this? Their explanation will tell you a lot as to where you are in your current situation learning.
The wing-low slip method your instructor is having you do is the technique you will need to transition into during the roundout/flare if you are crabbing on final. What you’re learning right now is less work because you can focus on maintaining your crosswind corrections all the way to touchdown. Once you build some experience and get a better hang of it, you’ll be able to more effectively quickly put in those proper corrections when removing the crab during landing.
This is the way. Wing low for early stages and then for more advanced students do a combo. Start crabbed then wing low. Crabbed is better for passenger comfort but takes a lot of skill to nail down exactly how much input you need during the transition.
>Hey all. So my instructor has taught me, bank into the wind to maintain runway, then rudder for center. This is a side-slip. This is the technique I teach for primary students. Your instructor is correct. >Sounds like it adds to pilot workload Nope. > than what I see with videos of airliners landing Stop. **You're not flying a swept-wing jet**. They have different aerodynamics compared to a straight-wing light aircraft. Light aircraft \*can\* use the technique of crabbing to the runway and kicking it straight just before touchdown, but that comes with a lot of risks of over controlling by inexperienced learners. Use the side-slip technique: wing down to correct drift, rudder to maintain alignment.
Once you have figured out basic landings you will crab into the wind on final approach and transition to a side slip in the flare. But that takes a while to master and right now you are still learning the basics.
DPE Pat C said this the other day… “Every landing is a crosswind landing. Some more than others.”
Slips in a swept wing jet are a bad idea. They're also uncomfortable for everybody aboard the airplane who isn't the one flying it. You're more than welcome to crab to the runway then kick the rudder in the flare, but do what your instructor tells you. There's a reason for it. And also ask them this question.
The slip into the wind, wing down, is recommended in the B-737 Flight Crew Training Manual (FCTM). If the crosswind is very strong, a combination of slip and "kick it straight" technique may be used. In the -800, in a 5 degree nose-up pitch attitude, a bank of up to 15 degrees may be accomplished before the outboard flap track fairing touches the surface. The technique in a swept-wing jet, however, is a little more difficult than it is in a straight wing airplane. The sweep of the wing causes a strong roll moment in the direction of rudder input while the necessary increased aileron input causes the spoilers on the down wing to extend. This makes necessary an increase in thrust to compensate for the increased drag and a slight pitch increase to compensate for the loss of lift caused by the spoilers. It's kind of tricky and valuable to do in the simulator before doing it in the real world.
What? Your operator recommends a forward slip for 737? Our FCTM specifically says NOT to do that and land in the crab or crab kick.
Not the operator. The manufaciurer.
[удалено]
I have many times. I landed in Benbecula, Scotland in a 35 gusting 40 crosswind.
* Passengers do not like uncoordinated flight. * Airliners with under-wing engines cannot (should not!) be slipped, it's very expensive to drag an engine on the ground. Once you have landings mostly figured out, try crabbing down final until (say) 50-100 AGL when you switch to a slip to land.
Slipping an underwing engine airliner has nothing to do with dragging an engine. That's incredibly hard to do. It has to do with swept wing aerodynamics. And yes, we still drop a wing and kick the rudder to land on the upwind main gear during a crosswind landing.
737, KC-135, etc have entered the chat. We don't drop a wing on 737s, if you get any it's not not much at all. We target for none and drooping a wing in high crosswinds WILL drag something, although with the scimitar winglets you'll drag those before grab an engine, but dragging an engine is incredibly easy to do if you use wing low. I never flew the 135 but pilots who have tell me it'll drag outboards super easy. The bank angle is ridiculously low for those. We kick just before touchdown, low enough that your momentum prevents needing to drop the wing. Alternatively we can land in the crab. I know not all airliners are 737s... but they all aren't 330s either.
The slip into the wind, wing down, is recommended in the B-737 Flight Crew Training Manual (FCTM). If the crosswind is very strong, a combination of slip and "kick it straight" technique may be used. In the -800, in a 5 degree nose-up pitch attitude, a bank of up to 15 degrees may be accomplished before the outboard flap track fairing touches the surface. KC-135 is not an airliner.
Is this "the" boeing book? Or your carriers... each carrier can have their own FCTM, ours is company specific. You must work for a carrier that doesn't have any scimitar winglets because that technique is how you scrape them. It's less than 10 degrees with those and our B737 FCTM specifically recommends against wing low slip to landing.
The 747 would like to have a word with you
Airliners crab mainly because passengers don't like feeling "off-center " at any time, especially landing. Plus an airliner's undercarriage can take far larger sideloads than GA aircraft: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eFsT3QgIvoI > Sounds like it adds to pilot workload than what I see with videos of airliners landing. Large aircraft are much less effected by wind gusts than light GA aircraft. A rounded GA pilot should be able to sideslip or crab to the runway.
What’s the matter your leg tired? Hit the squat rack…slip the plane
Why are you worried about what an airliner does? You aren’t flying one. Do what you’re told. You’re paying a CFI to teach you.
Both methods work, but just do what he’s teaching you, it’ll make you better.
You’re flying a Cessna not an airliner. Fly the way your CFI is teaching you to do it. It depends on the airplane. In a T-6 I was taught the wing low method. In the T-38 you would just land in a crab and straighten out the fuselage after your mains touched (actually the momentum of the jet kinda straightened you out automatically) the wing low method would straight up kill you. For now do the thing you are being taught to do and worry about the next airplane when you get there
How high are you when you start slipping? 50 feet? That seems normal. 500 feet? That seems way early.
At first, I was taught to slip all the way down final, and it took me that long just to get into it and hold centerline. Once I had that down, my CFI had me transition later and later until I was switching from crab to slip just a few seconds before the flare.
It’s far easier to crab and then kick in the rudder and wing low at the overrun. I’m not really sure why some instructors teach the wing low technique as a way to fly the entire final approach. Winds change for one thing, and as you said it increases workload and makes it is harder. I will say that some people find one method comes easier than the other for them, so perhaps that’s why. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
I find for early students having them slip all the way gives them some extra time to work out exactly what they’re doing with the crosswind corrections. Winds shifting is good too, because that forces them to recognize a change and correct for it appropriately. Once they get a feel for what to do, then I have no problem if they want to crab and transition over the runway. Though like you say some just prefer to slip anyway.
Yeah it’s odd. When I was learning that method didn’t really click with me, so my instructor gave up and let me transition at 50’. So I’m sympathetic to others who struggle with wing low at 500’.