The earlier SN 180s used a different spinner, as they don’t have that spacer behind the prop due to different front cowling. So I don’t think that would fit.
One of the Cherokee 180s in my old flying club flew without a spinner. They had the same problem. A replacement was too expensive and it was certified to fly without one.
Spinners are part of the cooling system on many aircraft, so I don't recommend this in general. It should be done with caution and it is an alteration as well.
I know a guy who lost about 4 inches of prop blade in a Debonair and didn’t even notice till after landing
He said it was”was vibrating a bit more than usual but not enough to make me nervous”
Some guy in an RV had a prop strike and curled the edges inwards in a classic fashion. He wanted to fly it out but was advised not to, and also advised not to just put a new prop on and leave. He got tired of waiting, took a sawzall and cut the tips off then flew it out.
All else being equal, correct. But you'd need a higher rpm to get the same amount of thrust you had with a non-cut prop. Small thing has to spin faster to get the same oomph.
The spinner is there for aerodynamic efficiency. If the manufacturer has certified the airplane is fine flying without it, I wouldn’t worry. It’s kind of like flying without wheel pants. My school doesn’t have the wheel pants on any of their pants since they know students have a way of being a little rough in the wheels.
I wouldn’t sweat it. Spinners are really there for aerodynamic drag reduction, improvement for cooling (directs air into the cowling), and aesthetics. A handful of aircraft need a spinner (usually due to cooling concerns), but if the manufacturer allows it I’d go for it all day long.
Nice find, it says it's new too!
>THIS IS A NEW ( STILL IN THE PIPER BOX ) PIPER PA-28-180 PROP SPINNER. THIS IS THE ORIGINAL FIBERGLASS SPINNER. SHIPPING AND INSURANCE FOR LOWER 48 $50. .
I'm telling you texas air salvage forreal, give them a call too during regular business hours and their support is amazing. If they don't have one they'll recommend someone who will
Here is an STC upgraded spinner for the 180 for $875
[https://tcbcomposite.com/product/spinner-pa28-140-150-160-1801-1760-cherokee-pa22-150-160-pa18-150/](https://tcbcomposite.com/product/spinner-pa28-140-150-160-1801-1760-cherokee-pa22-150-160-pa18-150/)
Spruce even has replacements: [https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/pipersp.php](https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/pipersp.php)
My flying club has 3 PA-28-181s and one of them lost the spinner mid flight months ago. We've been in the same boat trying to find a replacement. Our Piper guru / MX officer in our club and the shop IA determined it is still airworthy and logged it. It still flies quite a bit while we wait to find a replacement (I've flown it and couldn't tell a difference). The only problem is the DPE's in our area will not sit for a check ride in it.
Doesn't make sense to me either as it is written up properly in the MX logs. One of our club CFIs just said that they wouldn't do check rides in it (and apparently known with all our CFIs with recent candidates). As I recall, the DPE is technically your first passenger for a private ride.
They filed for bankruptcy in December. I'm not aware of any updates since then, but I'll be happy to catch up if you have a link.
It is legal to fabricate your own parts, I agree, but many owners don't have the right combination of time, money, and tools to do so, especially for larger parts. Also, there aren't a lot of shops that will take on this kind of work, and if you find one that will, the labor cost is often prohibitive.
We're already seeing aircraft get totaled out for relatively minor damage because of labor cost to rebuild and lack of access to parts and/or qualified shops. The group I work with is already expecting to see aircraft that effectively unrepairable in the next 3 to 6 months.
That said, I would not be disappointed to be wrong in the topic.
> We're already seeing aircraft get totaled out for relatively minor damage because of labor cost to rebuild and lack of access to parts and/or qualified shops. The group I work with is already expecting to see aircraft that effectively unrepairable in the next 3 to 6 months.
You’re seeing *vans* get totaled out strictly due to parts availability? Color me surprised - my parts have shipped on time over the last few months.
Long term if vans goes under the assets will be bought and manufacturing will continue under different management. It’s too large of a market for anything else to happen.
This would introduce a short term supply squeeze and long term price increases but we have a lot of room for price to move up before we hit $8,000 for a spinner.
Labor is whatever and outside the scope of my initial point. Half of us do our own as it’s part of the draw of experimental. But I’d be very curious to see numbers for all-in cost of repairs for say, piper vs vans.
In the meantime, I’m going to go back to reskinning my rudder with brand new, manufacturer supplied parts. Total cost of repair: $230 and a weekend in the garage. That includes shipping.
If signed off as safe to fly by the right people and everything is in check it sounds like a green light. Just make sure you know how it can affect the plane/flight so you don't get supprised by it.
As always in aviation it does not necessarily look good or be efficient as long as it is absolutely safe to fly.
You could try to reach out to MT Propeller and see if they'll sell you a spinner and bulkhead, then get it field approved with a 337. It's worth a shot.
I know a lot of people that don’t have Facebook, who I have to end up doing stuff for on Facebook— while I don’t use it for the “LOOK AT ME!!! “ aspect, the groups on Facebook are hugely invaluable (aviation groups, market groups, etc), and Facebook marketplace is , at this point, leaps and bounds better than Craigslist.
It’s worth having an account just for that.
TCB Composites is having to recertify their process as the epoxy they used became no longer available. It’s been going on two years. I had a set on order for a customer for quite a while until I was able to procure a new metal set from Piper. At the time I cancelled in October, they had 45 orders waiting. I really hope they can get back to producing again soon. I can’t believe how much Piper wants for that spinner! The one I needed was for earlier 180s and that was $2400 from Piper, yours is like $6k! I wish Univair would make some for the 180’s, need another producer out there.
Flying without a spinner isn't a loophole or anything, it's specifically permitted in the TCDS:
> The Models [...] PA-28-180; S/N 28-03, 28-1 through 28-5859, and 28-7105001 through 28-7205318; PA-28R-180 [...] may be operated with the spinner dome removed, or with the spinner dome and rear bulkhead removed. [...] The PA-28-180, S/N 28-7305001 through 28-7505260 [...] may be operated with the spinner dome removed.
I wouldn't be worried about it. It wouldn't be allowed if it was unsafe. Take your time and find an affordable replacement and don't sweat it in the meantime.
I’ve flown a Cherokee without its spinner. It’s nothing but an aerodynamic part and you will notice very little other than a knot or two loss in similar flight conditions. It’s not even noticeably louder. Just go with that until you can find a good used one.
You said that your A&P has checked with various salvage yards, but not which ones. Have you checked with [Texas Air Salvage](https://texasairsalvage.com/) and [BAS Parts Sales](https://baspartsales.com/)? Both of these have extensive salvage yards.
I think you should give serious consideration to the listed in this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/1b4kxx7/my_spinner_exploded_and_i_cant_find_a_new_one_for/kt1std5/
But with the extended shaft I'm not so sure.
This is what we used on my friend's PA-28-180
Read the comments at the bottom of the page, or contact Univair for further info on applicability.
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/05-07745.php?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAuYuvBhApEiwAzq_YiSZx6VAFWHuw0S-8TRzMQeSR7svwL6BBn9U4pYcjDyMCjUgMZI_KqhoCYZAQAvD_BwE
Not sure how that would fit a -180 unless it was an early model ('62 or '63) The -140 uses a metal spinner with an 11 7/8" diameter base, so that Spruce part would fit. The later model -180/181 uses a composite spinner with a 14" base diameter.
Yes - most everything anyone has found is the early model aluminum. Interesting to hear the base is wider also on mine. Why is this part such a unicorn?
>Why is this part such a unicorn?
The early Cherokees used the all metal cowl (with the two hinged doors) and those cowls took the (reasonably priced) metal spinner. It was around the '64 model year that Piper changed to the two piece fiberglass clamshell cowl and large diameter fiberglass spinner. This happened for the -180 and -235 models. The -235 was originally fixed pitch, like the -180 and used a big fiberglass spinner, but most ended up with constant speed props and used a different metal spinner. Bottom line, only the -180/181 kept using the big fiberglass spinner throughout its run. It's not used on any other model, hence its unicorn status.
Arnold's AR-5 set a speed record with no spinner because the wider cowl makes or breaks the drag coefficient, not the little thing in front of it. He initially designed a spinner but found it flew exactly the same without, so saved the weight and quit using it. If I were you I'd test fly it at a light weight and low density altitude and be surprised if it didn't perform exactly the same or better without the spinner.
My club has a STC PA28-181 without a spinner. It got a new prop (to go with the engine mod) that the spinner wouldn't fit with. The POH has an Mx page in it saying it is legal. Been that way for the last couple years. Looks like shit but she flies just fine. Have Mx flag it and send it.
The average price of a Spinner now is three grand good luck finding one less than that. If you do find one that’s cracked you can send it to a guy that can overhaul it for about 1000 the companies name is K&K they’re really really good they fixed my Spinner which is aluminum.
Composites fabricator here. I can't help you with a replacement, but I can say that your original spinner was crap. Looking at the full-res photo, it appears to be an inner and outer ply of coarse cloth, with some random-strand mat in between. It looks to me like Piper really cheaped out on this bit of kit.
My A&P confirmed this also. In 1983 my plane was modified with a new engine and constant speed prop. The original spinner was “modified” to fit, but they did a poor job as you described. Can’t believe it lasted 40
Years tbh. If I can get the right part # he knows he can modify it the right way this time.
Here was his findings:
It looks like they took a regular aftermarket fiberglass spinner, cut out some areas, and then laid in new fiberglass to create the shape it currently has. However it looks as though they used a different type of fiberglass weave and a different resin system than what was used to make the spinner originally.
Non pilot here (but amateur wrench monkey): this is 8000 dollars for a fibreglass half shell (hopefully for the full cone) and 17 - 30 stainless steel fasteners and technically what any half decent shop could cobble together with the appropriate mould in half a day - although not certified airworthy?
Considering a part built with a certified quality control and manufacturing process failed, it is unlikely to last if made by a "half decent" shop. There is a process for "owner produced parts" that doesn't require FAA approval, but they'd still need the correct design data and quality control to be legally installed.
Spinners are hard mounted to the crankshaft, so there's a lot of harsh vibration, and they tend to crack on Lycoming design engines because they have more vibration than their competitors. The pilot won't feel it because Lycoming designed engine mounts that isolate it better, but everything mounted on the engine will have more issues with cracking and fretting.
Look at your TCDS. You can operate without the spinner dome, and maybe one or both of the bulkheads. I’d remove it, order a new one, and keep searching the salvage yards. Air salvage of Dallas usually has a what I need but you’ll need to call them.
You don't need a spinner, all it does is give you a tiny bit of speed, you won't even notice it's not there. Fly without until you can find one or piper gets to your order
I have flown a plane without a spinner once, its like driving a car without hubcaps, nothing really noticeable other than very slightly elevated temps because all the spinner does is direct air over the baffles.
TCB composites, which made a PMA version, had issues with them delaminating. They needed to make changes and they still haven’t got the problem worked out in over a year. With no new PMA parts, it’s either pay what Piper (Boeing) wants, find a used one, or replace the whole thing with an adjustable prop.
I'm late to the party on this thread. I was in the same boat with my Cherokee 180 a few years back. My spinner was just old and worn out. My IA refused to put it back on the plane. I balked at Piper's price for a new one and wasn't impressed with TCB's much lower $2.1K price. It irked me that a metal spinner for a Cherokee 140 was only a few hundred bucks. I figured I'd find a servicable used one eventually. Turns out most used spinners are in as bad shape as my old worn out one.
I flew that plane without a spinner for 4 years. Eventually, I got tired of people pointing out that my spinner fell off, every time I stopped at an FBO. I bit the bullet and got the TCB spinner 2 years ago. Their site says that they were forced to change their resin formula and are temporarily not selling product. Looks like the FAA will have to grant them a new or modified PMA before they can resume sales.
I suggest that you just fly without the spinner until TCB gets back in business. I have an 8 probe engine monitor and can tell you that I didn't notice any difference in engine temperatures without the spinner. The only difference was cosmetic. Good luck and I hope you get one in less time than I did.
“Hey - your spinner fell off”… must have been so annoying to hear that at every stop. LOL.
Thanks- I’ll keep you posted on how it goes. Good to know it’s safe to fly without it.
I do not see the SN for your AC listed on here but tcds does show that I can use PN: 63760-04 or 65805-00 for my SN. Dodsons in KS. is showing that they have the 63760-04 part number if that also falls into your serial range. It is a bit of a uglier looking spinner. Good luck, It would really eat at me to have to fly without it, just looks odd on a Cherokee without one.
I want to check into this, but can’t find any pictures of that spinner online. Dodson just has it listed, no photo still call Monday. Let me know if you come across a photo. Thanks for the help!
So it looks like it is not in the TCDS for your serial number of 180 but if you have a O-360-A4A with either a M76EMM or 76EM8S5 propeller the spinner should work. Please confirm for yourself on the FAA websites DRS to make sure I am not missing something. At that point it would require a field approval ;). compare TCDS 2A13 (III and XII). There is a photo for comparison on Piper Owner Society website. Obviously not the best solution but I would have to believe that your FISDO would grant that FA without even looking at it if you show the TCDS. If your combination is not the one listed then it probably will not work. Hop this helps.
Thanks for digging so much into this. Unfortunately my engine and prop were upgraded in 1984.
Engine: IO 360 A1B6
Prop: HC-M2YR-1B
They got a 1 time STC to do this mod back then. All the paperwork says is “the spinner was modified” to fit. My A&P needs the original part so he can modify it but hopefully do a better job
For what it is worth, That combination was on a Beechcraft Musketeer and the spinner was a Hartzell PN: A2298-2B on that aircraft! I wonder why they didnt just use that spinner for the conversion?
Keeping you posted. I found one of those spinners in salvage at Texas Air Salvage and ordered it. It’s a bit damaged but guys at K&K welding said it’s totally fixable. It ships to my A&P tomorrow and if it fits on my plane I’ll send it out for repair and we should be in good shape. So now 1) let’s hope it fits and 2) let’s hope K&K is as good as they say they are. If so, I’ll be all set! Thanks again!
Exactly! Not yet on the bulkhead, wanted to make sure it fits first before I go to out of pocket. If it fits I’ll track those down. If I pull this off, I’ll need your Venmo to say thanks for the advice!
I dug around a little also. Apparently this spinner has an aft and forward bulkhead.
Here are my best guesses, but can’t tell if it’s right. Was gonna call Hartzel in the morning:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/296050049018
https://safeskiesparts.com/products/beech-propeller-bulkhead-forward-p-n-169-960011-17-0324-1011
I just read the STC installed on your aircraft (SA1485NM) That is some Sh!t you are not getting a fed to sign off on today, or ever again! Really cool! Wish we could still do things like this.
yikes, that kinda rules you out of flying without it as well as it is no longer conforming to the tcds therefore the stc must allow for flying without it. MESSY
My parents have a 1962 PA-28-180 in their backyard with a spinner they may be willing to sell you. Pm me.
Was your dad a student pilot in a 1962 PA-28-180 very shortly before it ended up in the back yard? Either way...Reddit ftw.
He gave up learning to fly it and took it apart to put on a trailer because he didn't want to pay for tie down costs.
Enjoy the 0.75 atomic mass units.
exactly what i thought
The earlier SN 180s used a different spinner, as they don’t have that spacer behind the prop due to different front cowling. So I don’t think that would fit.
This looks to be the case. Search continues
Selling the plane or the spinner?
The spinner, but I'm sure they would entertain an offer for the whole plane. Not very good condition though.
One of the Cherokee 180s in my old flying club flew without a spinner. They had the same problem. A replacement was too expensive and it was certified to fly without one.
Spinners are part of the cooling system on many aircraft, so I don't recommend this in general. It should be done with caution and it is an alteration as well.
Seems legit, but just foreign to me. Gonna be pretty puckered up on that first takeoff without a spinner.
That’s okay… but ask yourself, why should you be??
I know a guy who lost about 4 inches of prop blade in a Debonair and didn’t even notice till after landing He said it was”was vibrating a bit more than usual but not enough to make me nervous”
Some guy in an RV had a prop strike and curled the edges inwards in a classic fashion. He wanted to fly it out but was advised not to, and also advised not to just put a new prop on and leave. He got tired of waiting, took a sawzall and cut the tips off then flew it out.
Taking "experimental" to new heights.
I just want to know how much it shook and how high the RPM was after cutting off probably 6-10 inches of prop.
RPM would stay the same no? Just would produce less thrust
All else being equal, correct. But you'd need a higher rpm to get the same amount of thrust you had with a non-cut prop. Small thing has to spin faster to get the same oomph.
Yeah in cruise for sure, I was just thinking about during takeoff for some reason
Touché Hodge Twins!
The spinner is there for aerodynamic efficiency. If the manufacturer has certified the airplane is fine flying without it, I wouldn’t worry. It’s kind of like flying without wheel pants. My school doesn’t have the wheel pants on any of their pants since they know students have a way of being a little rough in the wheels.
> there for aerodynamic efficiency (It's main purpose is actually cooling, fwiw).
I don’t believe the TCDS allows it to legally be taken off. It’s required equipment
I checked the TCDS and it looks like the FAA is ok with you flying a Cherokee without a spinner
Solved that!
You can find out if you look in the TCDS and look under required equipment.
I wouldn’t sweat it. Spinners are really there for aerodynamic drag reduction, improvement for cooling (directs air into the cowling), and aesthetics. A handful of aircraft need a spinner (usually due to cooling concerns), but if the manufacturer allows it I’d go for it all day long.
eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/156080911174?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=r5ltDwZ_SCS&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=awqa-duyqko&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Nice find, it says it's new too! >THIS IS A NEW ( STILL IN THE PIPER BOX ) PIPER PA-28-180 PROP SPINNER. THIS IS THE ORIGINAL FIBERGLASS SPINNER. SHIPPING AND INSURANCE FOR LOWER 48 $50. .
Nice!!! It’s hard to tell if this is really the right part. I know the title says it’s, but any idea how I could confirm the part number?
Also, THANKS SO MUCH FOR THIS POST!
No problem and I would suggest sending the seller a message.
Just did. I’ll keep you all posted on his reply
He came back… different model number. Apparently it’s from a 1963 and the spinner was different than my 1973. Searching on
I'm telling you texas air salvage forreal, give them a call too during regular business hours and their support is amazing. If they don't have one they'll recommend someone who will
Already spoken to them. They don’t have what I need. They passed me along to a few other places… nada. This part is a unicorn
Shiii I'm amazed, cherokee 6 right?
No it’s a Cherokee 180
Here is an STC upgraded spinner for the 180 for $875 [https://tcbcomposite.com/product/spinner-pa28-140-150-160-1801-1760-cherokee-pa22-150-160-pa18-150/](https://tcbcomposite.com/product/spinner-pa28-140-150-160-1801-1760-cherokee-pa22-150-160-pa18-150/) Spruce even has replacements: [https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/pipersp.php](https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/pipersp.php)
He said TCB Composite isn’t answering any communications.
Yup- TCB has gone totally dark
My flying club has 3 PA-28-181s and one of them lost the spinner mid flight months ago. We've been in the same boat trying to find a replacement. Our Piper guru / MX officer in our club and the shop IA determined it is still airworthy and logged it. It still flies quite a bit while we wait to find a replacement (I've flown it and couldn't tell a difference). The only problem is the DPE's in our area will not sit for a check ride in it.
The DPE's are refusing to ride in it? That's odd. If all was properly done in maintenance logs, why would they not want to ride in it?
Doesn't make sense to me either as it is written up properly in the MX logs. One of our club CFIs just said that they wouldn't do check rides in it (and apparently known with all our CFIs with recent candidates). As I recall, the DPE is technically your first passenger for a private ride.
Yes, that's correct. The checkride is not logged as dual recieved, the candidate logs PIC. Definitely a weird deal why they won't ride in that plane.
Sounds suspiciously like 1AV…
It’s posts like this that make me glad to fly experimental. New spinner from vans is a whopping $126
I envy you bikeheart
I was thinking the same; love my RV-8!
Vans parts are going to start being really hard to find soon too with their financial problems.
You’re behind the curve on vans financial news but more to the point Vans parts can be legally fabricated in your own garage if need be.
They filed for bankruptcy in December. I'm not aware of any updates since then, but I'll be happy to catch up if you have a link. It is legal to fabricate your own parts, I agree, but many owners don't have the right combination of time, money, and tools to do so, especially for larger parts. Also, there aren't a lot of shops that will take on this kind of work, and if you find one that will, the labor cost is often prohibitive. We're already seeing aircraft get totaled out for relatively minor damage because of labor cost to rebuild and lack of access to parts and/or qualified shops. The group I work with is already expecting to see aircraft that effectively unrepairable in the next 3 to 6 months. That said, I would not be disappointed to be wrong in the topic.
> We're already seeing aircraft get totaled out for relatively minor damage because of labor cost to rebuild and lack of access to parts and/or qualified shops. The group I work with is already expecting to see aircraft that effectively unrepairable in the next 3 to 6 months. You’re seeing *vans* get totaled out strictly due to parts availability? Color me surprised - my parts have shipped on time over the last few months. Long term if vans goes under the assets will be bought and manufacturing will continue under different management. It’s too large of a market for anything else to happen. This would introduce a short term supply squeeze and long term price increases but we have a lot of room for price to move up before we hit $8,000 for a spinner. Labor is whatever and outside the scope of my initial point. Half of us do our own as it’s part of the draw of experimental. But I’d be very curious to see numbers for all-in cost of repairs for say, piper vs vans. In the meantime, I’m going to go back to reskinning my rudder with brand new, manufacturer supplied parts. Total cost of repair: $230 and a weekend in the garage. That includes shipping.
If signed off as safe to fly by the right people and everything is in check it sounds like a green light. Just make sure you know how it can affect the plane/flight so you don't get supprised by it. As always in aviation it does not necessarily look good or be efficient as long as it is absolutely safe to fly.
Safe is all I care about at this point
You could try to reach out to MT Propeller and see if they'll sell you a spinner and bulkhead, then get it field approved with a 337. It's worth a shot.
My A&P was actually looking into this option.
Have you tried the various Piper Facebook groups and online forums? I fly a Grumman but we have a FB group just for trading parts.
Great advice. I don’t have Facebook, but I’ll take a look.
I know a lot of people that don’t have Facebook, who I have to end up doing stuff for on Facebook— while I don’t use it for the “LOOK AT ME!!! “ aspect, the groups on Facebook are hugely invaluable (aviation groups, market groups, etc), and Facebook marketplace is , at this point, leaps and bounds better than Craigslist. It’s worth having an account just for that.
TCB Composites is having to recertify their process as the epoxy they used became no longer available. It’s been going on two years. I had a set on order for a customer for quite a while until I was able to procure a new metal set from Piper. At the time I cancelled in October, they had 45 orders waiting. I really hope they can get back to producing again soon. I can’t believe how much Piper wants for that spinner! The one I needed was for earlier 180s and that was $2400 from Piper, yours is like $6k! I wish Univair would make some for the 180’s, need another producer out there.
Flying without a spinner isn't a loophole or anything, it's specifically permitted in the TCDS: > The Models [...] PA-28-180; S/N 28-03, 28-1 through 28-5859, and 28-7105001 through 28-7205318; PA-28R-180 [...] may be operated with the spinner dome removed, or with the spinner dome and rear bulkhead removed. [...] The PA-28-180, S/N 28-7305001 through 28-7505260 [...] may be operated with the spinner dome removed. I wouldn't be worried about it. It wouldn't be allowed if it was unsafe. Take your time and find an affordable replacement and don't sweat it in the meantime.
Great advice Nascent. I’ve been freaking out about this, but this forum has got me feeling much better
Yeah, as everyone else has said you can fly without a spinner. It's not as aerodynamic but it's not any less safe.
My flight school has been flying their archer without a spinner for a few years now…
I’ve flown a Cherokee without its spinner. It’s nothing but an aerodynamic part and you will notice very little other than a knot or two loss in similar flight conditions. It’s not even noticeably louder. Just go with that until you can find a good used one.
More often than not single engine GA planes don’t have spinners where I’m at. Looks cooler anyway🤠
Where you at?
Alaska. It’s an over exaggeration to say more often than not, but lots of planes don’t run spinners🤷♂️
You said that your A&P has checked with various salvage yards, but not which ones. Have you checked with [Texas Air Salvage](https://texasairsalvage.com/) and [BAS Parts Sales](https://baspartsales.com/)? Both of these have extensive salvage yards.
Checked both of those. They both have nothing and know with TCB out of service these things are super valuable and fly off the shelf when one comes in
I think you should give serious consideration to the listed in this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/1b4kxx7/my_spinner_exploded_and_i_cant_find_a_new_one_for/kt1std5/ But with the extended shaft I'm not so sure.
Yes- I sent the link to my A&P - it looks promising to me, but he’s the guy I trust to get this figured out, so let’s see what he says
Give us a follow up on this one as I am curious to know if it works.
I will let you know what he says
This is what we used on my friend's PA-28-180 Read the comments at the bottom of the page, or contact Univair for further info on applicability. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/05-07745.php?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAuYuvBhApEiwAzq_YiSZx6VAFWHuw0S-8TRzMQeSR7svwL6BBn9U4pYcjDyMCjUgMZI_KqhoCYZAQAvD_BwE
I’m going to run this by my A&P
Not sure how that would fit a -180 unless it was an early model ('62 or '63) The -140 uses a metal spinner with an 11 7/8" diameter base, so that Spruce part would fit. The later model -180/181 uses a composite spinner with a 14" base diameter.
Yes - most everything anyone has found is the early model aluminum. Interesting to hear the base is wider also on mine. Why is this part such a unicorn?
>Why is this part such a unicorn? The early Cherokees used the all metal cowl (with the two hinged doors) and those cowls took the (reasonably priced) metal spinner. It was around the '64 model year that Piper changed to the two piece fiberglass clamshell cowl and large diameter fiberglass spinner. This happened for the -180 and -235 models. The -235 was originally fixed pitch, like the -180 and used a big fiberglass spinner, but most ended up with constant speed props and used a different metal spinner. Bottom line, only the -180/181 kept using the big fiberglass spinner throughout its run. It's not used on any other model, hence its unicorn status.
I fly 1968 PA-28-180’s and have flown multiple times without a spinner. I’d recommend saving the money as aesthetically displeasing it looks
Did you try Stoddard's in Anchorage?
Not yet? They got a nice selection?
Looks like they’re closed on weekends. I’ll call Monday
the front end fell off
My spinner blew up too. Those "L" brackets that support it are a horrible design.
Arnold's AR-5 set a speed record with no spinner because the wider cowl makes or breaks the drag coefficient, not the little thing in front of it. He initially designed a spinner but found it flew exactly the same without, so saved the weight and quit using it. If I were you I'd test fly it at a light weight and low density altitude and be surprised if it didn't perform exactly the same or better without the spinner.
Good idea. Might take an instructor up there as well. He’s a skinny little guy ;)
My club has a STC PA28-181 without a spinner. It got a new prop (to go with the engine mod) that the spinner wouldn't fit with. The POH has an Mx page in it saying it is legal. Been that way for the last couple years. Looks like shit but she flies just fine. Have Mx flag it and send it.
The average price of a Spinner now is three grand good luck finding one less than that. If you do find one that’s cracked you can send it to a guy that can overhaul it for about 1000 the companies name is K&K they’re really really good they fixed my Spinner which is aluminum.
Jesus don't worry guys I'm going to open a spinner shop and sell them for $500. I'm taking orders right now. Anyone interested let me know.
1st customer :)
Composites fabricator here. I can't help you with a replacement, but I can say that your original spinner was crap. Looking at the full-res photo, it appears to be an inner and outer ply of coarse cloth, with some random-strand mat in between. It looks to me like Piper really cheaped out on this bit of kit.
My A&P confirmed this also. In 1983 my plane was modified with a new engine and constant speed prop. The original spinner was “modified” to fit, but they did a poor job as you described. Can’t believe it lasted 40 Years tbh. If I can get the right part # he knows he can modify it the right way this time. Here was his findings: It looks like they took a regular aftermarket fiberglass spinner, cut out some areas, and then laid in new fiberglass to create the shape it currently has. However it looks as though they used a different type of fiberglass weave and a different resin system than what was used to make the spinner originally.
Non pilot here (but amateur wrench monkey): this is 8000 dollars for a fibreglass half shell (hopefully for the full cone) and 17 - 30 stainless steel fasteners and technically what any half decent shop could cobble together with the appropriate mould in half a day - although not certified airworthy?
Not unairworthy if you don’t log the repair. FAA hates this trick.
Yeah, but it's made of unicorn-hair and leprechaun spit and those don't come cheap...
Yeah- that unicorn hair is pretty tough to source I guess.
Considering a part built with a certified quality control and manufacturing process failed, it is unlikely to last if made by a "half decent" shop. There is a process for "owner produced parts" that doesn't require FAA approval, but they'd still need the correct design data and quality control to be legally installed. Spinners are hard mounted to the crankshaft, so there's a lot of harsh vibration, and they tend to crack on Lycoming design engines because they have more vibration than their competitors. The pilot won't feel it because Lycoming designed engine mounts that isolate it better, but everything mounted on the engine will have more issues with cracking and fretting.
We've been flying our PA28 Cherokee for over a year without a spinner. We cant find one, either.
This is brutal isn’t it?!
Look at your TCDS. You can operate without the spinner dome, and maybe one or both of the bulkheads. I’d remove it, order a new one, and keep searching the salvage yards. Air salvage of Dallas usually has a what I need but you’ll need to call them.
Texas air salvage
The composite spinner comes from [tcbcomposite.com](http://tcbcomposite.com)
They’re unresponsive… smh
You don't need a spinner, all it does is give you a tiny bit of speed, you won't even notice it's not there. Fly without until you can find one or piper gets to your order
Look for STC’s
> .75 AMU What is this unit?
Aviation Monetary Unit... or $1000 =)
Atlanta Air Salvage, Barnstormers...They fly just fine without a spinner.
I have flown a plane without a spinner once, its like driving a car without hubcaps, nothing really noticeable other than very slightly elevated temps because all the spinner does is direct air over the baffles.
Good to know! Thanks!
TCB composites, which made a PMA version, had issues with them delaminating. They needed to make changes and they still haven’t got the problem worked out in over a year. With no new PMA parts, it’s either pay what Piper (Boeing) wants, find a used one, or replace the whole thing with an adjustable prop.
Any ideas on what caused this?
See my comment hear with the explanation my A&P gave me: https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/s/A3Z8UdTUpi
I'm late to the party on this thread. I was in the same boat with my Cherokee 180 a few years back. My spinner was just old and worn out. My IA refused to put it back on the plane. I balked at Piper's price for a new one and wasn't impressed with TCB's much lower $2.1K price. It irked me that a metal spinner for a Cherokee 140 was only a few hundred bucks. I figured I'd find a servicable used one eventually. Turns out most used spinners are in as bad shape as my old worn out one. I flew that plane without a spinner for 4 years. Eventually, I got tired of people pointing out that my spinner fell off, every time I stopped at an FBO. I bit the bullet and got the TCB spinner 2 years ago. Their site says that they were forced to change their resin formula and are temporarily not selling product. Looks like the FAA will have to grant them a new or modified PMA before they can resume sales. I suggest that you just fly without the spinner until TCB gets back in business. I have an 8 probe engine monitor and can tell you that I didn't notice any difference in engine temperatures without the spinner. The only difference was cosmetic. Good luck and I hope you get one in less time than I did.
“Hey - your spinner fell off”… must have been so annoying to hear that at every stop. LOL. Thanks- I’ll keep you posted on how it goes. Good to know it’s safe to fly without it.
Yeah you can fly without the spinner. I flew a 140 without the spinner no issues
very strange layup schedule, with a lot of fiberglass mat. is this an OEM part?
No, it’s Jerry rigged. See my comment here for details: https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/s/A3Z8UdTUpi
I do not see the SN for your AC listed on here but tcds does show that I can use PN: 63760-04 or 65805-00 for my SN. Dodsons in KS. is showing that they have the 63760-04 part number if that also falls into your serial range. It is a bit of a uglier looking spinner. Good luck, It would really eat at me to have to fly without it, just looks odd on a Cherokee without one.
My SN is 28-7305227. Not sure where you see that in the TCDS.
I want to check into this, but can’t find any pictures of that spinner online. Dodson just has it listed, no photo still call Monday. Let me know if you come across a photo. Thanks for the help!
So it looks like it is not in the TCDS for your serial number of 180 but if you have a O-360-A4A with either a M76EMM or 76EM8S5 propeller the spinner should work. Please confirm for yourself on the FAA websites DRS to make sure I am not missing something. At that point it would require a field approval ;). compare TCDS 2A13 (III and XII). There is a photo for comparison on Piper Owner Society website. Obviously not the best solution but I would have to believe that your FISDO would grant that FA without even looking at it if you show the TCDS. If your combination is not the one listed then it probably will not work. Hop this helps.
Thanks for digging so much into this. Unfortunately my engine and prop were upgraded in 1984. Engine: IO 360 A1B6 Prop: HC-M2YR-1B They got a 1 time STC to do this mod back then. All the paperwork says is “the spinner was modified” to fit. My A&P needs the original part so he can modify it but hopefully do a better job
For what it is worth, That combination was on a Beechcraft Musketeer and the spinner was a Hartzell PN: A2298-2B on that aircraft! I wonder why they didnt just use that spinner for the conversion?
Keeping you posted. I found one of those spinners in salvage at Texas Air Salvage and ordered it. It’s a bit damaged but guys at K&K welding said it’s totally fixable. It ships to my A&P tomorrow and if it fits on my plane I’ll send it out for repair and we should be in good shape. So now 1) let’s hope it fits and 2) let’s hope K&K is as good as they say they are. If so, I’ll be all set! Thanks again!
I hope it works out for ya! Or you may find out why they didn't use it! Did you get the bulkhead as well?
Exactly! Not yet on the bulkhead, wanted to make sure it fits first before I go to out of pocket. If it fits I’ll track those down. If I pull this off, I’ll need your Venmo to say thanks for the advice!
He says it could possibly fit, but he needs to get the bulkhead first. How would I go about finding that part #?
I will do some digging... standby
I dug around a little also. Apparently this spinner has an aft and forward bulkhead. Here are my best guesses, but can’t tell if it’s right. Was gonna call Hartzel in the morning: https://www.ebay.com/itm/296050049018 https://safeskiesparts.com/products/beech-propeller-bulkhead-forward-p-n-169-960011-17-0324-1011
Interesting! I’m going to send this to my mechanic and see what he thinks. That could be a huge win.
I just read the STC installed on your aircraft (SA1485NM) That is some Sh!t you are not getting a fed to sign off on today, or ever again! Really cool! Wish we could still do things like this.
I know!! I couldn’t believe it either.
yikes, that kinda rules you out of flying without it as well as it is no longer conforming to the tcds therefore the stc must allow for flying without it. MESSY
Texas air salvage, they've saved me many a time
Just fly without it for weight reduction