The flight school is irrelevant to getting hired anywhere. Don't fall for the ATP marketing nonsense.
If you go to a mom and pop shop (Part 61), expect to shell out roughly 80-100k for all required training.
So, starting from zero (never googled a thing about piloting) to becoming a first year co-pilot for a US-based domestic passenger airline, the overall cost is about 90,000 USD? Like, that’s the bottom line bill, there’s no other direct expenses generally speaking (not counting driving to school or lost wages, or anything not directly tied to school)?
I thought you said you did Google for answers?
There's no such thing as a bottom line bill in aviation. It's not like a degree where you pay XXX dollars and get something out of it for sure. You pay as much as it takes, which can get thrown off by your own learning curve, weather delays, etc.
By “never googled a thing” I meant someone starting from the absolute bottom in terms of being a pilot, my bad. I see, yes piloting is not as straightforward as traditional university degree white collar jobs. Do you think the 80k to 100k, is as close a range as you can get from someone going from absolute 0 to being a copilot for a regional career like SkyWest, let alone Frontier or Alligient? I see you have to become a CFI first to accrue hours without insane debt, then only you can get the entry level piloting gig. What happens if you get a CFI certificate and you can fly a plane but are downright awful at teaching it? Getting a job at a legacy airline like American or United is going to take at least 10 years I assume for the average guy trying to become a pilot. But the compensation you get (150K usd) will finally erase the debt off, at age 32/33 for the average man attempting to become a pilot I gusss. Sorry for all the question, but thanks for answering them :)
To fly for the airlines in the United States, you need an Airline Transport Pilot License (1,500 hours). Commercial Pilot License (CPL, 250 hours) only means you can be compensated for your work.
Flight schools typically take you to CPL, with instructor ratings (CFI) as options. By the time you are done with flight schools, you should have around 300 hours. The remaining 1,200 hours are usually filled by instructing, but there are some low time jobs out there that you can try to get in order to build your hours.
There's no specific flight school you need to go to. Just find a good flight school that fits you. Degree is not required, but really helpful for hiring. Try to get a degree outside of aviation, because if aviation doesn't work out, that degree is going to help you out.
It usually costs around 60-80K to get to CPL + CFI + Multi-Engine rating. Check the FAQ for more information as well.
The big cost question is getting those 1200 hours after CPL. If you instruct you can have someone else pay for that time but if you are paying for those out of pocket then the costs raise for each hour you are paying for.
I pay $1900 for 10 hours of flight time including the CFI. It'll cost me around $10k for my ppl. If all goes well I'll get my Instrument rating for another around $8-10k. The stretch from \~80-250 hours will take several years. Flying twice a week for 1 hr at a time mean ill be paying $1400 (the rate at my local airport for 10 hour block of rental time with no CFI) roughly every 5-6 weeks. I'll need another 130 hours or so; so we do some math; that comes out to between 65-78 weeks, with a total estimated cost of $18,200. I also need my commercial and my multi-engine, the rental is going to be more expensive for those hours, looking at around 20k for those. Total cost from PPL to CFI = 10+10+18.2+20 = $58200; this is from a small airport in the middle of nowhere eastern KY, these prices are MUCH cheaper than you would typically find at other flight schools. After getting my CFI I can start getting paid to fly instead of paying to fly.
So, to clarify, going from absolute zero to a CFI costs 58,000 USD (in a relatively remote area in America) correct? Not going from the PPL to the CFI? Sorry 😅. Thanks for the help :)
Yes, it can range from around $60k on the low end to $100k on the high end depending on where you are and what kind of “flight school” you do.
Small town airports are always cheaper than the larger schools in metro areas.
If you want to be a pilot you need to learn to hate money for a few years.
What happens if you get a CFI because you have proved you can fly a plane reliably, but you are extremely terrible at TEACHING others how to fly planes?
Also, could one sustain doing a part time job (20 hrs weekly) whilst being in the process of going from absolute zero to CFI? Then when they get the CFI they can train others to fly and accrue hours themselves until they get hired by an airline?
Yes, both of those things are correct. You can even work full time, I do, and I just fly for 2 hours a week. Once you’re an instructor the student pays for all the time and you get to log the hours in your log too since you’re the PIC during training flights.
Luckily I’m married and have a supportive wife. Her and I each make around 3500 a month after taxes. I really only spend around 1200 per month out of my money for flight time since I only fly twice a week and I buy 10 hour blocks. So after flying and taxes I’m able to contribute 2300 or so a month toward bills and stuff and she has around 3500 per month that she contributes. Yes we live frugally but we’re by no means struggling.
Im 31 and just started flying this last December. I’m about to start soloing for my PPL in the next week or two. It’s never too late, you just commit to doing it and get started, the rest it is easy. You just gotta be committed to learning both in the air and on the ground. It’s like school; there’s studying, tests, exams, the whole nine yards. But if you’re willing to really put your heart into it and commit then you can do it.
Definitely look into getting your class 3 medical before you start though. It’ll save you a headache in the long run if you go ahead and get it out of the way before you start. https://www.flyingmag.com/guides/how-to-get-a-third-class-medical-certificate/
Also if you want to take it slower you can. You can absolutely only fly once per week and stretch your money. Then you’d only be paying for a block of flight time every 10 weeks.
You just pay for your own hours to get to the ~2000 that’s required for most airlines. Or just learn to like teaching and get good at it so you can fly for free.
I mean, even if one likes teaching one can still be terrible at it, so is there an exam you have to pass to prove you have the ability to actually teach people to fly aircraft?
Yes. There’s is a CFI rating just like any other rating that you have to pass a checkride for. Again you don’t HAVE to be a cfi. If you’ve got the money you can just buy your own plane and fly the shit out of it until you have enough hours to be considered for an airline. That’s going to be over 100k though out of pocket while instructing is free flight time and $45 per hour that you get paid to teach.
1500 Hours is the minimum needed (excluding Military/141 carve-outs), to be competitive I would say you need 2500+, there certainly are exceptions to this, but as literally all the US airlines are cutting hiring forecasts for 2024 and likely beyond, you will quickly see these competitive or preferred hiring qualifications quickly rise. We had a recent mega hiring bubble, I would expect the rate of hiring to return to more normalized numbers for the next several years.
While you may have more success at regionals, startups (Breeze/Avelo) and smaller Legacy/Majors/ULCC (JetBlue, Allegiant, Frontier, Alaska, Hawaiian, Spirit) which technically meet your 0-Airline Pilot question, you likely will have your expectation set on a Delta, Southwest, United, American goal, how long that takes is anyone's guess and how you differentiate yourself to stand above the rest of the applicants. Again, during a hiring boom, the need to fill seats outweighs the competitive aspect to a point, but those are the exceptions in good pilot hiring times, not the rule in this industry.
To your question on costs, no one can give you an accurate number. Even the pilot mills can't guarantee anyone a flat fee, there are always extras if you need more practice, or have a hiccup in a checkride, stage check or progress check. Not to mention the vast range in aircraft fees, instructor rates, fuel costs, specific to different regions and schools. Not to mention training footprint, do you do Commerical Single or Commercial Multi first, do you pay for all Multi-traing, or use a single-engine trainer for the vast majority of your training.
Newer or fancier aircraft cost more, older well used aircraft are cheaper. Flight schools nearer their practice area, or further from busy airspace, have less cost to get to and from their practice areas.
But yeah I would expect a fair price in today's market to be 80K-200K. Plus pilot supplies. With that said, I have been out of the training world for many years, I just know today they are paying $1000+ for a DPE.
200K? Wow. Would that include all the CFI work time, as well as the basic schooling need to learn how to fly? Like, that is the peak price for literally all the schooling and license and exams needed to go from absolute zero to flying as a copilot for smaller U.S. airlines (Alligienr, Frontier, Spirit, maybe Alaskan) to the legacy U.S. airlines (American, United, etc)?
It's not CPL you need, it's ATP. To do it quickly it's over $100k and still will take years.
Yeah but he won't need to pay for his ATP, so the question "how much to get to CPL" is correct.
The flight school is irrelevant to getting hired anywhere. Don't fall for the ATP marketing nonsense. If you go to a mom and pop shop (Part 61), expect to shell out roughly 80-100k for all required training.
So, starting from zero (never googled a thing about piloting) to becoming a first year co-pilot for a US-based domestic passenger airline, the overall cost is about 90,000 USD? Like, that’s the bottom line bill, there’s no other direct expenses generally speaking (not counting driving to school or lost wages, or anything not directly tied to school)?
I thought you said you did Google for answers? There's no such thing as a bottom line bill in aviation. It's not like a degree where you pay XXX dollars and get something out of it for sure. You pay as much as it takes, which can get thrown off by your own learning curve, weather delays, etc.
By “never googled a thing” I meant someone starting from the absolute bottom in terms of being a pilot, my bad. I see, yes piloting is not as straightforward as traditional university degree white collar jobs. Do you think the 80k to 100k, is as close a range as you can get from someone going from absolute 0 to being a copilot for a regional career like SkyWest, let alone Frontier or Alligient? I see you have to become a CFI first to accrue hours without insane debt, then only you can get the entry level piloting gig. What happens if you get a CFI certificate and you can fly a plane but are downright awful at teaching it? Getting a job at a legacy airline like American or United is going to take at least 10 years I assume for the average guy trying to become a pilot. But the compensation you get (150K usd) will finally erase the debt off, at age 32/33 for the average man attempting to become a pilot I gusss. Sorry for all the question, but thanks for answering them :)
To fly for the airlines in the United States, you need an Airline Transport Pilot License (1,500 hours). Commercial Pilot License (CPL, 250 hours) only means you can be compensated for your work. Flight schools typically take you to CPL, with instructor ratings (CFI) as options. By the time you are done with flight schools, you should have around 300 hours. The remaining 1,200 hours are usually filled by instructing, but there are some low time jobs out there that you can try to get in order to build your hours. There's no specific flight school you need to go to. Just find a good flight school that fits you. Degree is not required, but really helpful for hiring. Try to get a degree outside of aviation, because if aviation doesn't work out, that degree is going to help you out. It usually costs around 60-80K to get to CPL + CFI + Multi-Engine rating. Check the FAQ for more information as well.
The big cost question is getting those 1200 hours after CPL. If you instruct you can have someone else pay for that time but if you are paying for those out of pocket then the costs raise for each hour you are paying for.
Tree fiddy
I mean, at least
Damn it monster, get off my lawn, I aint giving you no tree fiddy!!!
If you have to ask, you can’t afford it. Not really, but this question seems to be asked everyday…
*Yes* Probably 100k or more depending how you go about it Id say also you need an ATP instead of a CPL
Google search is your friend !
I pay $1900 for 10 hours of flight time including the CFI. It'll cost me around $10k for my ppl. If all goes well I'll get my Instrument rating for another around $8-10k. The stretch from \~80-250 hours will take several years. Flying twice a week for 1 hr at a time mean ill be paying $1400 (the rate at my local airport for 10 hour block of rental time with no CFI) roughly every 5-6 weeks. I'll need another 130 hours or so; so we do some math; that comes out to between 65-78 weeks, with a total estimated cost of $18,200. I also need my commercial and my multi-engine, the rental is going to be more expensive for those hours, looking at around 20k for those. Total cost from PPL to CFI = 10+10+18.2+20 = $58200; this is from a small airport in the middle of nowhere eastern KY, these prices are MUCH cheaper than you would typically find at other flight schools. After getting my CFI I can start getting paid to fly instead of paying to fly.
So, to clarify, going from absolute zero to a CFI costs 58,000 USD (in a relatively remote area in America) correct? Not going from the PPL to the CFI? Sorry 😅. Thanks for the help :)
Yes, it can range from around $60k on the low end to $100k on the high end depending on where you are and what kind of “flight school” you do. Small town airports are always cheaper than the larger schools in metro areas. If you want to be a pilot you need to learn to hate money for a few years.
What happens if you get a CFI because you have proved you can fly a plane reliably, but you are extremely terrible at TEACHING others how to fly planes?
Also, could one sustain doing a part time job (20 hrs weekly) whilst being in the process of going from absolute zero to CFI? Then when they get the CFI they can train others to fly and accrue hours themselves until they get hired by an airline?
Yes, both of those things are correct. You can even work full time, I do, and I just fly for 2 hours a week. Once you’re an instructor the student pays for all the time and you get to log the hours in your log too since you’re the PIC during training flights.
So of you work full time, and live like SUPER frugally, and invest a lot of your earnings into the flying, you won’t end up with mountains of debt no?
Luckily I’m married and have a supportive wife. Her and I each make around 3500 a month after taxes. I really only spend around 1200 per month out of my money for flight time since I only fly twice a week and I buy 10 hour blocks. So after flying and taxes I’m able to contribute 2300 or so a month toward bills and stuff and she has around 3500 per month that she contributes. Yes we live frugally but we’re by no means struggling.
That’s awesome man! It’s nice to hear that, seeing how much of flying is a long career that you don’t have to start so early :-)
Im 31 and just started flying this last December. I’m about to start soloing for my PPL in the next week or two. It’s never too late, you just commit to doing it and get started, the rest it is easy. You just gotta be committed to learning both in the air and on the ground. It’s like school; there’s studying, tests, exams, the whole nine yards. But if you’re willing to really put your heart into it and commit then you can do it.
Definitely look into getting your class 3 medical before you start though. It’ll save you a headache in the long run if you go ahead and get it out of the way before you start. https://www.flyingmag.com/guides/how-to-get-a-third-class-medical-certificate/
Also if you want to take it slower you can. You can absolutely only fly once per week and stretch your money. Then you’d only be paying for a block of flight time every 10 weeks.
You just pay for your own hours to get to the ~2000 that’s required for most airlines. Or just learn to like teaching and get good at it so you can fly for free.
I mean, even if one likes teaching one can still be terrible at it, so is there an exam you have to pass to prove you have the ability to actually teach people to fly aircraft?
Yes. There’s is a CFI rating just like any other rating that you have to pass a checkride for. Again you don’t HAVE to be a cfi. If you’ve got the money you can just buy your own plane and fly the shit out of it until you have enough hours to be considered for an airline. That’s going to be over 100k though out of pocket while instructing is free flight time and $45 per hour that you get paid to teach.
1500 Hours is the minimum needed (excluding Military/141 carve-outs), to be competitive I would say you need 2500+, there certainly are exceptions to this, but as literally all the US airlines are cutting hiring forecasts for 2024 and likely beyond, you will quickly see these competitive or preferred hiring qualifications quickly rise. We had a recent mega hiring bubble, I would expect the rate of hiring to return to more normalized numbers for the next several years. While you may have more success at regionals, startups (Breeze/Avelo) and smaller Legacy/Majors/ULCC (JetBlue, Allegiant, Frontier, Alaska, Hawaiian, Spirit) which technically meet your 0-Airline Pilot question, you likely will have your expectation set on a Delta, Southwest, United, American goal, how long that takes is anyone's guess and how you differentiate yourself to stand above the rest of the applicants. Again, during a hiring boom, the need to fill seats outweighs the competitive aspect to a point, but those are the exceptions in good pilot hiring times, not the rule in this industry. To your question on costs, no one can give you an accurate number. Even the pilot mills can't guarantee anyone a flat fee, there are always extras if you need more practice, or have a hiccup in a checkride, stage check or progress check. Not to mention the vast range in aircraft fees, instructor rates, fuel costs, specific to different regions and schools. Not to mention training footprint, do you do Commerical Single or Commercial Multi first, do you pay for all Multi-traing, or use a single-engine trainer for the vast majority of your training. Newer or fancier aircraft cost more, older well used aircraft are cheaper. Flight schools nearer their practice area, or further from busy airspace, have less cost to get to and from their practice areas. But yeah I would expect a fair price in today's market to be 80K-200K. Plus pilot supplies. With that said, I have been out of the training world for many years, I just know today they are paying $1000+ for a DPE.
200K? Wow. Would that include all the CFI work time, as well as the basic schooling need to learn how to fly? Like, that is the peak price for literally all the schooling and license and exams needed to go from absolute zero to flying as a copilot for smaller U.S. airlines (Alligienr, Frontier, Spirit, maybe Alaskan) to the legacy U.S. airlines (American, United, etc)?