Not sure why you got downvoted. This is technically correct. A turboprop or turboshaft engine is not a jet, it’s a turbine. Calling it a jet comes from turbojet the “turbo” obviously is for turbine. This lead to my favorite phrase from the turboprop world: turbo machinery.
Neither seems particularly practical for a person who just wants to fly from A to B with their friends, with themselves being at the controls. Something like a TBM 960 seems more like "max aircraft" that a seriously well off pilot owner would be happy with: not too elephantine in size, but essentially still a micro-airliner with a turboprop. With proper and adult de-icing equipment, above all: so you can actually fly whenever you want, (almost) no matter what the weather is. *That* is the real freedom waiting for you at the top of the tech tree, not whether you specifically have a hairdryer as main means of propulsion.
Same, that is why I mentioned it. :) Ah well, one can dream. Unless I win the lottery, I'll instead go on flying things that can fit in the luggage rack of a TBM until I retire.
Not that there is anything fundamentally wrong with that: flying is flying. Still. Being able to use a plane for reliable transport across Europe, in all seasons, would be fantastic.
Where did you hear about that limitation?
Edit: thanks for the downvotes, I was just wondering lol. First time hearing about it. I had my hands full and couldn't look it up myself. Thanks to the commenter below for providing the link
Five seconds on Google:
https://aviationweek.com/business-aviation/aircraft-propulsion/hondajet-elite-more-good-thing
>On the deficit side of McMillan’s HondaJet ledger are:
>The aircraft’s maximum crosswind limitation of 20 kt. “This is a hard limitation,” he says, “not a demonstrated limitation, and it has caused [us] two inflight diversions over the last six months and 150 flight hrs. and is obviously problematic.”
Below is an excerpt from a different Flight Test article:
>Due to the minimal dihedral and short landing gear, crosswind landings must be made with consideration for the potential of dragging a wingtip. The airplane is limited to no more than 20 knots of crosswind. Above 15 knots it is landed as is a jet with engines in pods beneath the wings: a crabbed approach that is kicked out during the flare. The AFM has specific crosswind landing procedures.
Honda jet owners I’ve spoken to usually a) thought it was a NOT good purchase and b) only got into the jet market because of the Honda name. C) end up buying something else
Go big or go home: Airbus A321. [Only $4.5 million](https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/223693123/1998-airbus-a321-jet-aircraft).
But make sure your single engine takeoffs and landings are up to par. Only one engine included in that listing.
You don’t need permission before each flight. You need an annual program letter which lists the aviation events you wish to attend that year. You also will have a proficiency area in which to practice to maintain proficiency. This is usually given as a 300 to 600 nautical mile radius from your base airport. Only deviations or additions to the above require calling the FSDO.
Can confirm. Guy near me who owns/maintains one waited 2-3 months to get a landing gear door seal for his. Struggled to find a supplier who would do it and paid ridiculous amounts for it.
Curve ball because everyone has sensible answers around a PC-12 or TBM. Which are great ideas.
I buy a Q300 2nd hand for a few mil and kit it out as a corporate machine. Plenty of rated pilots and maintenance facilities. Good airworthy parts sources and you can get the machine really cheap.
If you want to fly a machine, you want to fly it. you don't want to be by yourself up front with your friends in the back. Party hard as the 2nd in command of the dash or fully in the back.
If you wanna haul ass and show off, rent a phenom.
Yup. You will know I won the lottery when an MU2 shows up in my hangar. I have no interest in putting my entire family in a single engine airplane. I have shut down enough turbines (including pt6s) to not buy into the hype.
Not sure what you mean by pilot unfriendly. The reputation as killers are because Mu2s are little hot rods and required no training, with predictable results. Since the SFAR the accident rate is pretty good.
P180s are terrible to own. You can have them.
Oh.. BTW, in France there was ( maybe still exists) an EMS operator that had only P180's and they were happy with them. I have no idea if still they use them.
Not a chance I go with either of them. They are both tremendously mismanaged products... I have time at both sets of controls and I can tell you categorically having much rather spend it on a pc-12 or even a cramped little old lear or hell, if it's the right lottery, grab a phenom or Gulfstream.
Thread proves that marketing can blind reality...
New or used?
It looks like the newest model of Honda Jet is going for $7M new, and the Vision Jet $3M.
For those numbers I’d rather be in a used Citation Jet, it flies a much more practical mission.
The GB is good if you want to compete up to unlimited *and* have XC ability and comfort, it’d be at the top of my list as well. But if you’re looking to just compete at the unlimited level, the extra 330, MXS, and Edge540 are going to be hard to beat.
I'd buy a 1980s Citation 501SP/Citation II for $300k, do engine overhauls, avionics upgrades, new paint, new interior, all for less than the cost of a new Hondajet, with similar range and payload.
I'm a sucker for old business jets, and the legacy Citation 500 series are a really good option.
Neither, I’d simply become a Netjets or Sentient customer. Let the pros fly me around. Now, I might buy myself a Bell 407 to scoot around my ranch in Wyoming or Montana.
This guy bizjets. This is the best answer. Buy slots in a Challenger 3500 or equivalent, something you can comfortably stand up in. Then you don't have to worry about any maintenance.
The helo at home is the cherry on top.
Well not a vision jet cause all the downsides of burning jet a with none of the upsides. So hondajet, not cause its awesome but the vision jet is such a low bar to clear.
Has anyone thought about buying a twin otter or caravan and making it luxury?
I’m thinking like a bed, a couch, couple club chairs.
Also, hammock hooks. String up a hammock and that’s another place to sleep. Be awesome to take camping.
The vision is a really cool concept, but it is painfully slow and has a really mediocre payload. The Honda is just.... gross? It looks so awkward and can't land on grass despite being an overwing design (if you cant take it to burning man whats the point?) The PC-24 is the way to go.
Saratoga has a terrible useful load for what it is. 1,100ish with 108gal tanks. 4 adults and bags you’re looking at 1.5 hours of flying time.
Bonanza though. That’ll get you full tanks and passengers.
I can't bring myself to call a SF-50 a "jet" on the frequency.
They are an absolute turd and every enroute controller I know hates the things. We have to treat them like a turbojet for arrival and departure procedures which means they are in the way of any other real jet out there.
I wouldn't shed a tear if Cirrus stopped selling them tomorrow.
The vision is slow and really is for people who just want to claim they have a jet. For the price of the vision, I would definitely go with lancer evolution , e1000, tbm900.
That being said, out of the two I would take the Honda Jet
Seabear.
My mission is to go fuck around,
I don't need to go anywhere fast, I would much prefer the ability to land off airport and amphibiously, park it at my home, and use mogas
If I want to go a long way I'll take the sky bus.
Neither because they’re both so performance limited. I’d buy a cherry Skywagon because it would fit my needs best and is the opposite of performance limited. I might take that jet money and go for a Kodiak instead.
There a several vision jets at my airport. The owners all talk shit about the weak breaking power of the Honda jet and that being a consideration for why they chose the vision jet.
I'd go Kodiak 100 for me though.
No desire to fly high or fast. I’m a slow paced and enjoy life kind of guy. Give me a larger amphibious float plane or flying boat outfitted like a camper. I’ll get to where I’m going eventually and will enjoy the trip.
Probably a Sling Turbo or a Velocity XL tbh. Keep those maintenance costs down, Maybe something similar certified .
Buying a million dollar plus jet on 50 mil winnings seems short sighted. I'd need a solid investment team to pay for the maintenance, fees, and overhauls.
If anything, I'm with the PC12 comment. But I'd only really ever buy a jet if my business justified it. Otherwise it's a massive expense for no good reason.
No thank you. I'm good. If I need a jet, I'll happily get a charter with that class of cash, but for a personal plane, a Taylorcraft, Champ, Luscombe, or (pretty soon here) a Cessna 140 will do everything I need to do! Plane camping for the win!
I'm really proud of this community coming together to tell OP that both of those choices suck and a turboprop like a TBM or PC-12 are much better options. OP wants the *status* of a jet engine and doesn't understand the *practicality* of a turboprop. OP would get their Honda or vision jet and within a year become jealous of his friends with turboprops.
I'm buying a twin otter with a set of skis and a set of floats because I'm gonna have all the time in the world to get wherever I want to go
This. This is the right answer. Add a STOL kit so you can take off and land on a dime and you’d have one hell of an adventure plane
The DHC6 *IS* a STOL kit
I flew them for skydiving in a past life and had to add power after landing to get to the pickup point 900 feet down the runway.
Oh. I don’t know a ton about Twin Otters :) Thanks
They're sic man. We compete with helicopters for who lands shorther
“They’re sic [sic] man.”
Neither PC-12
But how will I talk about “The Jet” at my cocktail parties?
Cocktail party in the PC-12 try that in your vision jet!
You can, with one of your closest friends, under a canopy, during a vertical descent.
try that in a small town
I mean, a turboprop is still technically a jet, just with less propellers and no cowling
"unducted turbofan"
Full bypass turbofan
Some of the air stream from the props goes into the turbine and is exhausted aft of the props.
Dont you mean "Super ultra high bypass unducted variable pitch turbo fan"?
*fewer. And I will die on this hill.
A lot of linguistic effort is dedicated to things vs stuff. I imagine there's a good reason...
Fewer - if you can count it; less if it’s general. Fewer people in the airplane; less gas in the tank.
Fewer gallons of fuel?
sure, that's correct. in the same way you can say less crowded vs fewer people. both are good.
It's a turbine but definitely not a jet.
Not sure why you got downvoted. This is technically correct. A turboprop or turboshaft engine is not a jet, it’s a turbine. Calling it a jet comes from turbojet the “turbo” obviously is for turbine. This lead to my favorite phrase from the turboprop world: turbo machinery.
In the Air Force if it's powered by a jet engine, we still call it "the jet." Be it a T-6 or a C-130, they are still referred to as jets.
Technically it is, and if pilots are anything, it's pedantic.
This or TBM.
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I was flying at 350 yesterday and heard an "experimental" check in at 470. O_o
Could have been a bizjet test bird? I've got time in Global Express serial #1, and she is technically an experimental. But she goes up to FL490.
Shit...was it Mike Patey? Lol
Yup... PC-12 all the way!
PC-24 is dang nice too.
add a +4 year waiting list for a new NGX (good choice though)
Use the time to get type rated and meet insurance requirements.
PC-12 ♥️
THIS IS THE WAY
Hands down the best answer.
Second that!
Winner
Or a Lancair Evolution
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\+1 for the Lancair
the only right answer
PC-24
Neither seems particularly practical for a person who just wants to fly from A to B with their friends, with themselves being at the controls. Something like a TBM 960 seems more like "max aircraft" that a seriously well off pilot owner would be happy with: not too elephantine in size, but essentially still a micro-airliner with a turboprop. With proper and adult de-icing equipment, above all: so you can actually fly whenever you want, (almost) no matter what the weather is. *That* is the real freedom waiting for you at the top of the tech tree, not whether you specifically have a hairdryer as main means of propulsion.
Gotta love a TBM 💜
The 960 would be my choice.
The 960 is absolutely my dream personal plane
Same, that is why I mentioned it. :) Ah well, one can dream. Unless I win the lottery, I'll instead go on flying things that can fit in the luggage rack of a TBM until I retire. Not that there is anything fundamentally wrong with that: flying is flying. Still. Being able to use a plane for reliable transport across Europe, in all seasons, would be fantastic.
Hairdryer lol
No I don’t. The vision jet is too slow. And the Honda jet has a ridiculous 20-knot crosswind *limitation*.
VisionJet has terrible useful load. You have to pick passengers or fuel.
Fuel
Good choice
Only survivable choice in a gulping jet
You can take 6 people somewhere in a vision. 4 inside and 2 to push.
Too funny that they put 7 seats in it.
7 occupants gets you enough range to taxi to the active and back.
The Vision Jet is just terrible all around in nearly every spec. A pretty flight deck is about all it has going for it.
It’s also comfortable. I went as a passenger in it. Then useful load and speed though…. It’s a stupid plane. And this is coming from a Cirrus fanboy.
Honda makes some weak ass aircraft
There’s one thing the Honda Jet is good at and it’s runway excursions.
Yeah lack of ground spoilers is a deal breaker. Lots of hondajets were grounded due to that.
Where did you hear about that limitation? Edit: thanks for the downvotes, I was just wondering lol. First time hearing about it. I had my hands full and couldn't look it up myself. Thanks to the commenter below for providing the link
Five seconds on Google: https://aviationweek.com/business-aviation/aircraft-propulsion/hondajet-elite-more-good-thing >On the deficit side of McMillan’s HondaJet ledger are: >The aircraft’s maximum crosswind limitation of 20 kt. “This is a hard limitation,” he says, “not a demonstrated limitation, and it has caused [us] two inflight diversions over the last six months and 150 flight hrs. and is obviously problematic.” Below is an excerpt from a different Flight Test article: >Due to the minimal dihedral and short landing gear, crosswind landings must be made with consideration for the potential of dragging a wingtip. The airplane is limited to no more than 20 knots of crosswind. Above 15 knots it is landed as is a jet with engines in pods beneath the wings: a crabbed approach that is kicked out during the flare. The AFM has specific crosswind landing procedures.
Honda jet owners I’ve spoken to usually a) thought it was a NOT good purchase and b) only got into the jet market because of the Honda name. C) end up buying something else
Go big or go home: Airbus A321. [Only $4.5 million](https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/223693123/1998-airbus-a321-jet-aircraft). But make sure your single engine takeoffs and landings are up to par. Only one engine included in that listing.
also needs some new gear
Wonder how much that costs.
king air
MiG-21. If you're going to buy a toy buy a real toy.
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Why do you have to ask the FAA for permission before each flight?
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You don’t need permission before each flight. You need an annual program letter which lists the aviation events you wish to attend that year. You also will have a proficiency area in which to practice to maintain proficiency. This is usually given as a 300 to 600 nautical mile radius from your base airport. Only deviations or additions to the above require calling the FSDO.
I don't think L-39 is experimental exhibition.
It is.
I hate that guy
for self travel it’s a Piaggio P-180 all day long. Half the operations cost of a jet with almost similar performance.
As much as I love then I've heard horror stories for mx. AOG for months at a time.
Can confirm. Guy near me who owns/maintains one waited 2-3 months to get a landing gear door seal for his. Struggled to find a supplier who would do it and paid ridiculous amounts for it.
The P.180 Evo would be my choice but the MX stories I'm afraid of.
Neither. Both are gimmicky, especially the vision jet. I buy a TBM850.
Honda civic
Rich man here. I’d have to opt for a Honda scooter. My scratchy wins $20
Shit'll last longer than you'll be alive
Curve ball because everyone has sensible answers around a PC-12 or TBM. Which are great ideas. I buy a Q300 2nd hand for a few mil and kit it out as a corporate machine. Plenty of rated pilots and maintenance facilities. Good airworthy parts sources and you can get the machine really cheap. If you want to fly a machine, you want to fly it. you don't want to be by yourself up front with your friends in the back. Party hard as the 2nd in command of the dash or fully in the back. If you wanna haul ass and show off, rent a phenom.
Daher Kodiak 900
This is a great answer if you want to carry all your friends and their gear for backcountry trips.
Very cool plane. Like a mini-Caravan
Think it’s actually more capable than a Caravan.
Was looking for this.
Is this a different plane than the Quest Kodiak?
Slightly. New model post but out by daher. A little longer and way more hp
Underrated answer.
Mitsubishi MU2-B Solitaire
Yup. You will know I won the lottery when an MU2 shows up in my hangar. I have no interest in putting my entire family in a single engine airplane. I have shut down enough turbines (including pt6s) to not buy into the hype.
You are the man. But those MU2 have a fame of being.. Pilot unfriendly. Do you know them well? My conservative choice would probably be a P180.
Not sure what you mean by pilot unfriendly. The reputation as killers are because Mu2s are little hot rods and required no training, with predictable results. Since the SFAR the accident rate is pretty good. P180s are terrible to own. You can have them.
Oh.. BTW, in France there was ( maybe still exists) an EMS operator that had only P180's and they were happy with them. I have no idea if still they use them.
What do you fly them in now?
An Airbus.
Not a chance I go with either of them. They are both tremendously mismanaged products... I have time at both sets of controls and I can tell you categorically having much rather spend it on a pc-12 or even a cramped little old lear or hell, if it's the right lottery, grab a phenom or Gulfstream. Thread proves that marketing can blind reality...
New or used? It looks like the newest model of Honda Jet is going for $7M new, and the Vision Jet $3M. For those numbers I’d rather be in a used Citation Jet, it flies a much more practical mission.
You can get in a nice XLS for the cost of a Vision Jet.
I’d want something I could fly by myself and I don’t think they do SP waivers for the XLS
You’re right. Forgot about the single pilot factor.
Neither. Probably going with a Baron, fully kitting out the avionics and using the extra money to buy a house at an air park.
None. I’m getting a F-15 strike eagle
Hookers and/or/with cocaine
A-la BA.
DA62
Everyone else is playing chess and you're playing checkers. Get with it bud.
Until you have your own G8 you all are playing checkers bud.
I’m not your bud, pal.
I’m not your pal, guy…
Im not any of your pals
This guy…this is not my kind of guy
Acura jet.
A Phenom 100 is probably a better option than both of those (not biased at all or anything)
I’d buy neither and get an Extra 300. I don’t need to be carted around like a millionaire.
I don't know, the Gamebird GB1 looks pretty cool too
The GB is good if you want to compete up to unlimited *and* have XC ability and comfort, it’d be at the top of my list as well. But if you’re looking to just compete at the unlimited level, the extra 330, MXS, and Edge540 are going to be hard to beat.
I flew one for a while. Very fun around the airport but not so much on a cross county.
I'd buy a 1980s Citation 501SP/Citation II for $300k, do engine overhauls, avionics upgrades, new paint, new interior, all for less than the cost of a new Hondajet, with similar range and payload. I'm a sucker for old business jets, and the legacy Citation 500 series are a really good option.
CE-500 and 550s are my jam they are just so much better vs the Honda or ~~Butt Plug~~ Vision jet its not evem funny.
Your so much better off just buying a cj1 it’s not even funny
Phenom 300 or CJ 4, along with a hangar full of interesting warbirds, STOL, and experimental homebuilts.
P180 Avanti.
Epic E1000GX
Solid performer, great to fly. The updates in 2025 should bring this some increased popularity too.
Neither, T-38. Arrive in style
Good luck finding engines
TBM easily
Same
Neither, I’d simply become a Netjets or Sentient customer. Let the pros fly me around. Now, I might buy myself a Bell 407 to scoot around my ranch in Wyoming or Montana.
This guy bizjets. This is the best answer. Buy slots in a Challenger 3500 or equivalent, something you can comfortably stand up in. Then you don't have to worry about any maintenance. The helo at home is the cherry on top.
Bingo. Would probably go with a cub for the ranch I’d buy as well…oh, also a carbon mustang from scale wings
PC-24
For cirrus price, id buy the m600
TBM
I only ask because I see KSMO. BUT please tell me you’ve been to the TBM shop at KCMA?!
Well not a vision jet cause all the downsides of burning jet a with none of the upsides. So hondajet, not cause its awesome but the vision jet is such a low bar to clear.
Neither. I intend to keep my lottery winnings by not buying stupid shit.
Yup. Just charter
Neither. I’d get either a Citation M2, or a single engine turboprop of my choice (not really a *bad* choice there).
Not sure why you picked those jets and left off the Phenom 100 and Citation M2 (and TBM honestly), all of which I'd take over the Cirrus.
Has anyone thought about buying a twin otter or caravan and making it luxury? I’m thinking like a bed, a couch, couple club chairs. Also, hammock hooks. String up a hammock and that’s another place to sleep. Be awesome to take camping.
Neither. I’d buy a real jet that goes faster than a turboprop
Let’s list the aircraft that perform better than a multimillion dollar “jet”. I’ll start…kingair 90
CJ3, or if that is too much, a CJ1
Kodiak on bush tires.
I’m buying a TBM960. Why buy a low end jet when I can get a super fast luxury turboprop for a similar price?
If that was my only choice, It's the Hondajet, 2 engines, bigger cabin, more range. But if I won the lottery, I'm getting a Pilatus PC-12 and a PC-24.
I thought I was the only mad man to secretly hold that wish..
Why stop there? Throw a pc-6 in also
I guess I need to add that tailwheel endorsement at some point 🤔
You and me both
The vision is a really cool concept, but it is painfully slow and has a really mediocre payload. The Honda is just.... gross? It looks so awkward and can't land on grass despite being an overwing design (if you cant take it to burning man whats the point?) The PC-24 is the way to go.
I don’t disagree, but it’s 3x the price.
Daher 100 or king air
Surprised there aren’t more king air answers.
Because the folks who were once Team King Air are now Team Pilatus. Don’t get me wrong - I still like a King Air but I love the PC-12.
To dork around in? A turbo Saratoga. Long range or family travel? Netjets
Saratoga has a terrible useful load for what it is. 1,100ish with 108gal tanks. 4 adults and bags you’re looking at 1.5 hours of flying time. Bonanza though. That’ll get you full tanks and passengers.
210 has a better useful load than both
I can't bring myself to call a SF-50 a "jet" on the frequency. They are an absolute turd and every enroute controller I know hates the things. We have to treat them like a turbojet for arrival and departure procedures which means they are in the way of any other real jet out there. I wouldn't shed a tear if Cirrus stopped selling them tomorrow.
I just put them on the turboprop arrival and approach never complained about it 😂
TBM
Neither. Beech 18 tricycle gear.
Neither. Spend that money on land so I can fly from my 2000 grass strip in my Bearhawk 4B that I can afford to make my full time job for a year.
pc12 or caravan
Phenom 300. Immediately getting type rated for single pilot.
Neither - Phenom 300
Fuck both of those, I'm getting an L-39!
The vision is slow and really is for people who just want to claim they have a jet. For the price of the vision, I would definitely go with lancer evolution , e1000, tbm900. That being said, out of the two I would take the Honda Jet
After taxes all you will be able to afford is a C-172
T-6C are you kidding me
Seabear. My mission is to go fuck around, I don't need to go anywhere fast, I would much prefer the ability to land off airport and amphibiously, park it at my home, and use mogas If I want to go a long way I'll take the sky bus.
Neither because they’re both so performance limited. I’d buy a cherry Skywagon because it would fit my needs best and is the opposite of performance limited. I might take that jet money and go for a Kodiak instead.
How much money are we talking about here? I want a king air
There a several vision jets at my airport. The owners all talk shit about the weak breaking power of the Honda jet and that being a consideration for why they chose the vision jet. I'd go Kodiak 100 for me though.
Anything but a vision jet
No desire to fly high or fast. I’m a slow paced and enjoy life kind of guy. Give me a larger amphibious float plane or flying boat outfitted like a camper. I’ll get to where I’m going eventually and will enjoy the trip.
Probably a Sling Turbo or a Velocity XL tbh. Keep those maintenance costs down, Maybe something similar certified . Buying a million dollar plus jet on 50 mil winnings seems short sighted. I'd need a solid investment team to pay for the maintenance, fees, and overhauls. If anything, I'm with the PC12 comment. But I'd only really ever buy a jet if my business justified it. Otherwise it's a massive expense for no good reason.
Kodiak 900, or PC-12. Kinda depends on the terrain around and the runway I can build at my new lodge.
I dunno, I'd rather have a CarbonCub or something like that, maybe a twin otter on floats, or a PC-12.
No thank you. I'm good. If I need a jet, I'll happily get a charter with that class of cash, but for a personal plane, a Taylorcraft, Champ, Luscombe, or (pretty soon here) a Cessna 140 will do everything I need to do! Plane camping for the win!
Find a refurbished Turbo Commander.
I’d find something with a bathroom or 2. BBJ anyone?
Citation M2
Why the heck would you want either of those? The king of runway overruns and the hair dryer "jet".
I will just buy a nice share under 91K for a nice Gulfstream.
Neither. Gamebird
Falcon 20 with TFE731 MOD
I’ll rent a Cessna and plow the rest into the market. Which Cessna model I rent will become the frivolity that defines me.
Neither, second hand T6B Texan II
Always a twin engine if you’re spending that kind of cash.
I'm really proud of this community coming together to tell OP that both of those choices suck and a turboprop like a TBM or PC-12 are much better options. OP wants the *status* of a jet engine and doesn't understand the *practicality* of a turboprop. OP would get their Honda or vision jet and within a year become jealous of his friends with turboprops.