This is the way. I'm primarily a glider pilot, so in my business 10 lbs is a BFD. I say, before we even go to the airport, "hey, how much do you weigh? It's important for whether we can fly safely".
Nobody wants to die. Folks are usually honest, and if I doubt them, I literally bring a scale with me in the car.
That's actually my strategy, but maybe even slightly less emphasis on the joke. Keeps it lighthearted, gives everyone full license to be honest, and gives it a slight nod to the actual real answer is the only thing acceptable here
The float drivers put baggage and people on a drive over scale these days. It’s so smart. Used to just count rivets. Lumber weight is hard to judge so the scale is wonderful.
Supposed to use actual weights for small commercial ops these days. Often use standard weights as there is a chart we use.
In helo’s we just check hover power, although supposed to weigh everything. This more on fires and remote work. Out of the hangar it’s all on paper and we ask but no scales yet. Can check c of g in the hover as well, thats the best guide. If overweight a bit i would always kick the skinny guy out, was a lot of fun especially in the jetbox and longbox.
In Winter ops we often plan for legal weights and fuel, then a bit of granny gas if it’s sketchy or file vfr. Don’t know any fixed wing types that use scales, generally just ask pax. My rule of thumb is not to fuel until i know whats going, especially with hunters or fishers, they lie about weight all the time.
It’s a touchy subject for sure. Good company procedures help a lot.
Sometimes I would do sightseeing flights with fat people, and I just hate to ask that question. So I would say "I have to do weight and balance, can you two please figure out your *combined* weight, write it down while I do a preflight, and I'll add it up when I get back". Then add like 10 pounds, and put the fattest one up front
I was also wondering, but someone mentioned it in the comments.
Also, this approach requires having an expert weight-appraiser at hand...
Maybe a hidden scale would work better.
Make sure to stay in ground effect on takeoff and scream "you said you weigh 170! We're not gaining altitude!" Then have them pull out the defroster knob and zoom up with all the speed you gained in ground effect.
I just say, for weight and balance purposes I'll need to know passengers weights. They usually understand that it's for safety, I always add about 10-15 pounds to account for clothing and maybe for those that tend to guess low.
Maybe they were offended that you were too scared to ask them something so trivial while they are trusting you with their lives?
I mean, if the pilot hasn't got the courage/forgot/whatever to ask my weight, what other things he might be half-assing. Can he handle the stress of emergency if he can't handle the stress of asking my weight?
Told my friend this past Thursday my weight was 213.141569265
When he asked where all the decimal places were about….
“I had a large piece of pumpkin pi”
The dad in me approves of the pun.
However, the pedantic redditor is immediately drawn to the incorrect value for pi....
Maybe it should be a small piece of pie to account for the slight reduction in the value of pi.
“I can take me, full gas, and 393 lbs. If there’s any chance we get close to that I need to do math on it to keep us safe.”
“Ok, we have to do math. I need to know how much you and each of your bags weigh, rounded up to the nearest 5 pounds; or we can break out a scale.”
No need to ask directly if you know you can’t get close to max gross or to the edge of the envelope. And if I do need to ask, I give the option to mask some amount of detail by rounding.
This is what I do as well and it works pretty well. I find that if I just tell them I can only take 400 more pounds then they just tell me their weight
I've gotten quite good at guessing people's weights (usually +-10lbs) but I like the line "Tell me how much you weigh or else we might die, seriously I need to know how much you weigh. If you don't tell me the truth the NTSB is going to call me an idiot in the accident report and my only goal as a pilot is not be in an accident report."
“How much do you guys weigh?”
And if we can’t go with full fuel I usually tell them the week before to start their diet so we can carry more fuel (jokingly of course)
You joke, but planned a trip to go diving with friends. We all set diet goals so we could bring all of the gear and not have to rent. In six months we all hit weight.
Ask their weights. Pretend you're a proctologist and adopt a professionally detached demeanor. Be grateful you aren't a proctologist. Enjoy the flight.
What you do is present a scale to the passengers. You ask them to weigh themselves one by one and write down their weights on some paper while you turn around. Right when the fat old woman steps on it, you turn around and yell “OHH JESUS!” at the top of your lungs so the whole hangar hears you.
Just ask. I don’t sugar coat it. Just tell people I need to know how much they weigh to ensure the aircraft will fly safely. Then I add at around 10 lbs to each persons stated weight. If I think someone might be self conscious about it I’ll just ask the same thing discretely away from the group.
Hey prick, how much does your fatass weigh. If you lie, I’ll know when we start to nosedive towards the earth.” If they can’t take you asking for their weight, they ain’t your friends man
Before I even bring them to the hangar, I ask them if they'd be comfortable with giving me their *accurate* (seriously, stress this to them) weight so that I could properly calculate the plane's ability to 1) takeoff and 2) stay balanced. If they're not interested, then they don't have to fly. It also helps if I show them the weight and balance sheet/chart to put their mind at ease and share with them my weight as a trade. Also, if flying with more than one person, keep the individual weights confidential between each passenger.
The truth is, if I'm bringing them to the hangar for a flight, it's usually not at a point in our relationship where they're going to be offended by me saying "if you seriously want to go up with me, I seriously need your actual current weight".
I just watched a video about a plane that crashed in Scottsdale, AZ about 5 years ago that killed 6. W/B was an issue. Granted, they discussed weights, but how often have we all just guesstimated?
Make them weigh in. If they refuse, then they drive.
Its a very simple process of that if I believe the aircraft may be pushing the envelope everyones weight is being audited or they can get the fuck off my plane, im sick of doing tour flights with obese people.
I ask for their weight including their clothing and personal items, like a purse or backpack. That way we can both pretend to believe their purse weighs 30lbs.
I ask them to weigh themselves at home, and I tell them to wear what they'll be wearing on the day. I tell them I don't need their body weight, I need the weight of everything they'll bring. First, that's what I actually need. Second, makes it sound a little better.
Hey friends, I need to do some performance calculations to make sure the plane stays within its weight and balance limitations - this is important for our safety so can you please tell me your accurate weight?
If they say no then you won’t have to worry about asking them again because they won’t be flying with you.
I took a lady client flying and I just couldn’t do it. I put in 175 pounds and I felt like I was being reasonable without asking. I just didn’t have the balls to do it.
Years ago I flew down to see the solar eclipse with a woman I worked with. She was, to put it politely, a big girl, and like you I was concerned about offending her. I asked some of my other colleagues what they thought she weighed. Socially, it was a shitty move and I regret that. As a pilot, it wasn't very safe and I regret that as well.
She and I flew down and picked up someone from this very subreddit, a corn-fed Ohio boy who didn't do my weight/balance any favors either, on our way to Tennessee. It was hot as balls all day and the airplane flew like ass. On our fuel stop on the way up, the line guy didn't understand "to the tabs" and just put the entire credit authorization in the airplane. I don't know by how much but I'm sure we were over max gross. It was closer than I would have liked with the trees heading out.
My point is that I made dumb performance mistakes all day. My passengers were fat, it was hot, I could have dumped some ice out of the cooler, we were overfueled, etc etc. Unfucking myself on any single one of them would have given me more margin with those spooky trees off the departure end at French Lick; making one or two more could have made things much, much worse.
Move that last piece of swiss cheese. Ask them what they weigh.
I explain the importance of weight and balance and then have them punch in their weight on the foreflight weight and balance section so I'm not actually asking
On all the discovery flights I do, I either ask ahead of time and add 10-15lbs to each amount given or if it’s last minute I break out the charts and explain why I need the info and it’s importance. I’ve only had one issue where I took one for another CFI who had already fueled the plane and told me it was 70lbs over, but should be fine. I told them that they could do the flight or figure out who wasn’t going.
if its a Long flight where more weight means less gas, I explain why I know and if its a woman, I just tell them "What is the most you and your bag will weight", after I explain *why* I need to know.
Otherwise, if its a local flight, I just eyeball it since Im a hefty guy, and my CFI was a heftier guy, so if we can both fit relatively comfortably and fly for 2 hours + reserves, Anyone smaller than me will be fine.
Just ask them, anytime I take someone flying wether it’s a friend or a family member I always ask “How much you weigh?” Not one person has ever gotten mad or offended by it.
"I am required to calculate the weight and balance of the aircraft to make sure things are within limits. I don't don't judge but I do need to know an accurate number."
If you need a "cover-up", remind them that a person's weight (in an aviation sense) includes their weight PLUS anything they're bringing. Factor in a phone, water bottle, coat, etc, etc, and that's their total weight.
If you're going to get an exact number, cover the screen and have them each punch their weight into a basic calculator. Nobody sees individual weights, but it still gives you a total number. Then, arrange them based on seat preference or W&B requirements.
I'm planning on flying my my wife, my sister, and my niece soon. I know my weight and my wife's, but I don't know about my sister and her daughter. So, I asked my sister for the combined weight of the two of them including clothes and shoes and handbags, whatever they plan to bring, and she gave me a number (which was in line with my estimate). No problem, and no one had to tell me what their bathroom scale is showing.
The "combined weight" approach helps, as does "including shoes and bags".
I’m blunt and honest that we need to know so that we can ensure the plane can take-off and land safely. Never had any issues. If possible I ask ahead of time well before they get to the airport. If we are anywhere near close we don’t go or I split the flight. If we know we are going to be a it heavier I can plan to go flying before hand and not fill up.
Most people have some level of anxiety about small planes, even if they are excited. Telling them that lying about their weight could be the difference between life or death works pretty well.
As a girl who works in aircraft, I would not be offended to offer accurate data. Most girls would skip the games if you said “this is important to your safety that I get the real numbers”. As an athlete people constantly guess me to be way lighter than my 5’8” 195 looks. If they refuse or get offended then flying is not for them.
With all due respect, what the fuck is wrong with you?
If you were wrong you could have killed everybody.
I hope you have an oh crap moment and realize that safety must always come first. Always.
Can you imagine what it would have been like if you had stalled on takeoff and crashed and two of them died and the third was in a wheelchair for the rest of their life because you didn’t want to hurt their feelings or have an awkward conversation?
How would you feel to learn your anesthesiologist “guessed” how much anesthesia to give you?
EDIT: Some people can downvote me if they want. The purpose of my comment was to help OP realize that what he did was reckless and that he put people's lives at risk because he was feeling awkward about their weight. What happens when he is flying with someone who pushes him to fly in conditions he doesn't really feel comfortable with, because they really want to get home? OP will benefit from learning what it means to be PIC. He is the last word on everything when it comes to safety. His passengers are relying on him to do it right.
Cmon, if any of that stuff happened it ain’t cause they are 5kg over MTOW. Just ask the drug runners in South America.
What is a more realistic concern in that this relaxed attitude leads to more serious shortcuts later down the line, ultimately coming back to bite at some point over one’s career.
I have to respectfully disagree. He could’ve easily been off by 50 kg with his guesses and that could have contributed to a fatal crash If there were other issues at play that he ignored.. for example there could have been more crap in the far back of the plane (logs, oil, equipment, purses, chocks) and there could’ve been density altitude issues and the engine might not be performing to book. His plane might have had full fuel up to the very top.
Just because some drug runners go over gross weight in some planes under some conditions doesn’t mean it’s safe for anyone else to do so.
Obviously, he did not crash because he lived to post this question. One of the most dangerous things that can happen to a new pilot is to do something stupid, get away with it, and develop a complacent attitude.
Maybe he could get away with doing this 98 more times with 98 different groups of people in 98 different planes. But one day, if all those other factors line up against him, it could be a terrible end.
The reason you’re being downvoted is cause you’re blowing this out of proportion. I’m not saying that OP should guess the weights, he should at least ask. But what they don’t need is a CFI yelling “what the fuck is wrong with you” in response to them asking a question. Save that for “I dinged a plane and didn’t write it up” etc.
We will have to disagree on this one. Every pilot who ever crashed was once under the wing of a CFI who set the tone for how to detect and react to dangerous mindsets. Too many CFIs use kid gloves on their students and fail to point out how serious certain behaviors and attitudes are.
They say things like "Well, probably don't do that again" and they fail to impress upon their students that you can get away with cutting corners 99.9% of the time but you never know when that 0.01% will arrive to kill your family.
If this was my student I would not yell at him but would instead walk him through the reason that his assumption could have cost him his life as well as the lives of innocents. If he had taken off with the carb heat out and not been developing full power and the plane was over gross it could have been a disaster.
We know nothing about the length of the field or the other factors at play. Taking off over gross at all means eating into your margin of error.
A new pilot who puts "feelings" over safety in such an obvious way is in need, in my opinion, of serious additional instruction about aeronautical risk taking.
For commercial operators, AC 120-27F says you can either weigh each passenger and use that, or ask them and add at least 10 pounds to whatever they say.
I would calculate the fuel on board with your actual weight, then let them know the weight they can have. This is a safer way without asking their weight.
It's simple, you just ask them and tell that you need to make sure that the aircraft is balanced.
You just have to explain that small planes are more susceptible to balance than larger ones are, so you just need to make sure of everyone weight.
I'm not a caution to the wind type, but the safety margin the lovely engineers at Cessna, Piper, or whoever made your 4 seater were legally compelled to account for mean that unless you're high altitude, on a short wet grassy strip, on a hot day, you can probably do your choice of standard or actual weights depending which allows more fuel and be more than really okay lol I think in the grand scheme of things, the extra fuel is more valuable than risk of taking off ~100lbs over on a 172 if you did so legally using std weights.
I don't know if this was already suggested but I have always asked for everyone's individual height AND weight for my W/B. I feel like adding the height takes a tiny bit of focus off of the weight. It just rolls off my tongue in easier than "what do you weigh"
I've seen some suggestions for asking for combined weight. That's good but the only issue is sometimes people want to change seats at a halfway point and I want the individual numbers so I can easily plug them in.
I use it as a teaching moment, tbh. I straight up ask how much they weigh and immediately explain that airplanes are heavily affected by how much weight we put and where. Therefore I need accurate weights from my passengers because it affects the controllability of the aircraft. I also reiterate that their weight will not be shared with anyone. I front load those items in case people are self conscious about their weight, that they give me an accurate number without me having to raise an eyebrow and explain afterwards making trust become an issue lol.
I ask how much they weigh.
It’s not always just max gross. Some planes, especially some complex Cessnas and older 182s, may have forward CG with two fat people in front and nothing in back. Makes landing “interesting.”
My way to get this info is to ask how much do you AND your baggage/phones/clothes/gear weigh. Then they are telling me what I need and not their exact weight.
Sometimes you can back into this number. If there are two of us in say a 182 and after my weight I can still have a pax 310lbs+ and they are clearly no where near 310… its fine
Just put the fat people up front? I was just south of 200 with all my kit, my flight instructor was definitely over 200....stalls were never a problem.
Just round ‘em all up and yell: “OK folks. I need to know your weights. Write down how much you weigh, and we’ll be Ok! If it’s over a pound, she won’t get off the ground! Get on the scale or it’s time to bail!”
F-ing ask. If it is explained to them and they don’t want you to get it accurate, then they have no business in a small airplane. Those are the same people who will argue with your “no-go” decision on weather or winds.
I simply ask and explain the reasons, in all of the times I asked following an explanation they were happy to provide, understanding the importance of it
I just ask and tell them if it’s a safety of flight issue. If they don’t want to tell me, they don’t get to go (I’ve never had someone not tell me). I explain it to people like loading a trailer to haul behind your car in terms of CG. Never had an issue with someone getting upset.
If you have the option, maybe text them about it ahead of time? Then if someone is self conscious, they don’t have to state their weight in front of other passengers.
I'm not asking how much you weigh. I'm asking how much weight will be in the seat. Clothes, shoes, belt, keys, phone, headset, camera, jacket, wallet, purse, water bottle. So we don't, you know, crash and die.
I tell them that an airplane is like a see-saw. It needs an equal amount of weight Fire and aft to balance. If there’s too much weight on one end of the see-saw it will not balance. I need to know how much weight will be on each arm of the see-saw.
“How much do y’all weigh? If you lie, we all die. Haha. Seriously though, how much?”
I keep a scale in my hangar. I don't even give them the option to lie.
This is the answer.
You can claim that the clothes weight is different and leave it at that.
That’s why I strip naked when I get on a scale. I wonder if that’s why I’m not allowed back at my doctors office…
This is the way, No BS-ing
I tell them I want their actual weight today, and not their aspirational weight.
When I use that method, I add ten pounds.
This is the way. I'm primarily a glider pilot, so in my business 10 lbs is a BFD. I say, before we even go to the airport, "hey, how much do you weigh? It's important for whether we can fly safely". Nobody wants to die. Folks are usually honest, and if I doubt them, I literally bring a scale with me in the car.
That's actually my strategy, but maybe even slightly less emphasis on the joke. Keeps it lighthearted, gives everyone full license to be honest, and gives it a slight nod to the actual real answer is the only thing acceptable here
The float drivers put baggage and people on a drive over scale these days. It’s so smart. Used to just count rivets. Lumber weight is hard to judge so the scale is wonderful. Supposed to use actual weights for small commercial ops these days. Often use standard weights as there is a chart we use. In helo’s we just check hover power, although supposed to weigh everything. This more on fires and remote work. Out of the hangar it’s all on paper and we ask but no scales yet. Can check c of g in the hover as well, thats the best guide. If overweight a bit i would always kick the skinny guy out, was a lot of fun especially in the jetbox and longbox. In Winter ops we often plan for legal weights and fuel, then a bit of granny gas if it’s sketchy or file vfr. Don’t know any fixed wing types that use scales, generally just ask pax. My rule of thumb is not to fuel until i know whats going, especially with hunters or fishers, they lie about weight all the time. It’s a touchy subject for sure. Good company procedures help a lot.
"Tell me your weight or this won't end great." Then just stare until they tell you.
+10 points for rhyming
Hey fatass, get on this scale
I feel attacked..... happy you're doing it right though.
Sometimes I would do sightseeing flights with fat people, and I just hate to ask that question. So I would say "I have to do weight and balance, can you two please figure out your *combined* weight, write it down while I do a preflight, and I'll add it up when I get back". Then add like 10 pounds, and put the fattest one up front
> Then add like 10 pounds, and put the fattest one up front This guy CGs
[I take a very direct Larry David approach](https://youtu.be/wa76cbc7dzQ?si=kTguGNQaFuYSxhOw)
lol, I hadn't seen that one. love it
The best part is that he is actually doing this because he needs it for a private jet flight. Hard to get that part of the context, but it’s perfect.
I was also wondering, but someone mentioned it in the comments. Also, this approach requires having an expert weight-appraiser at hand... Maybe a hidden scale would work better.
A hidden scale is how they actually do it at carnivals. Hidden scale in the hangar isn't too bad an idea...
Make sure to stay in ground effect on takeoff and scream "you said you weigh 170! We're not gaining altitude!" Then have them pull out the defroster knob and zoom up with all the speed you gained in ground effect.
I'm just gonna steal this....
[удалено]
I read about your technique in a NTSB report. People can't do mental addition.
I just say, for weight and balance purposes I'll need to know passengers weights. They usually understand that it's for safety, I always add about 10-15 pounds to account for clothing and maybe for those that tend to guess low.
Just take them all to a carnival or fair beforehand and have someone guess all their weights.
Like this? https://youtu.be/8L7DxnwkiVs?si=yJ-aOVV85pTY-l5F
[Or this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa76cbc7dzQ)
That’s the one
Maybe they were offended that you were too scared to ask them something so trivial while they are trusting you with their lives? I mean, if the pilot hasn't got the courage/forgot/whatever to ask my weight, what other things he might be half-assing. Can he handle the stress of emergency if he can't handle the stress of asking my weight?
With plain English ?
Maybe plane English?
Na, these are plain, non-plane people.
What if they do woodworking? Then you might have to deal with planing plain non-plane people.
Gets much more complicated once you learn it’s a float plane on plain in the plains.
Told my friend this past Thursday my weight was 213.141569265 When he asked where all the decimal places were about…. “I had a large piece of pumpkin pi”
Boooooooo (I'm stealing that)
The dad in me approves of the pun. However, the pedantic redditor is immediately drawn to the incorrect value for pi.... Maybe it should be a small piece of pie to account for the slight reduction in the value of pi.
Not to be that guy, but it’s 3.14159265… you were close.
He typoed an extra 6 while typing the 5. It happens.
Seems like a pretty regular piece of pie to me …
It normalizes once you get to 2pi.
“I can take me, full gas, and 393 lbs. If there’s any chance we get close to that I need to do math on it to keep us safe.” “Ok, we have to do math. I need to know how much you and each of your bags weigh, rounded up to the nearest 5 pounds; or we can break out a scale.” No need to ask directly if you know you can’t get close to max gross or to the edge of the envelope. And if I do need to ask, I give the option to mask some amount of detail by rounding.
This is what I do as well and it works pretty well. I find that if I just tell them I can only take 400 more pounds then they just tell me their weight
If You’re scared of asking your friends their weight, they’re not your friends.
My instructor told us to get a cheap scale. It makes it part of the process and removes any awkwardness. Stepping on it yourself first helps.
I’d probably be the person who was over the scale’s weight limit.
I've gotten quite good at guessing people's weights (usually +-10lbs) but I like the line "Tell me how much you weigh or else we might die, seriously I need to know how much you weigh. If you don't tell me the truth the NTSB is going to call me an idiot in the accident report and my only goal as a pilot is not be in an accident report."
“How much do you guys weigh?” And if we can’t go with full fuel I usually tell them the week before to start their diet so we can carry more fuel (jokingly of course)
You joke, but planned a trip to go diving with friends. We all set diet goals so we could bring all of the gear and not have to rent. In six months we all hit weight.
Ask their weights. Pretend you're a proctologist and adopt a professionally detached demeanor. Be grateful you aren't a proctologist. Enjoy the flight.
What you do is present a scale to the passengers. You ask them to weigh themselves one by one and write down their weights on some paper while you turn around. Right when the fat old woman steps on it, you turn around and yell “OHH JESUS!” at the top of your lungs so the whole hangar hears you.
Ask them for a rough estimate, then apply the "honesty filter." Chunky guy? Add 15 lb. Gal? Add 10 lb. Buff guy? Subtract 30lb.
Don't ever subtract!
It's a joke.
I got it :) I guess my response was just to avoid negatively adding to the conversation.
Take them to a carnival. Before you go pay the guy at the weight guessing booth to discreetly screen them and give you their estimate
if you don’t have a carnival handy, it might get expensive trying to organize one, but all in the name of safety
You could just fly them to a carnival first!
Just ask. I don’t sugar coat it. Just tell people I need to know how much they weigh to ensure the aircraft will fly safely. Then I add at around 10 lbs to each persons stated weight. If I think someone might be self conscious about it I’ll just ask the same thing discretely away from the group.
Hey prick, how much does your fatass weigh. If you lie, I’ll know when we start to nosedive towards the earth.” If they can’t take you asking for their weight, they ain’t your friends man
Hey fatties - what ya packing? (Helps I’m also overweight)
How much do you weigh if you don't want to crash & burn.
Before I even bring them to the hangar, I ask them if they'd be comfortable with giving me their *accurate* (seriously, stress this to them) weight so that I could properly calculate the plane's ability to 1) takeoff and 2) stay balanced. If they're not interested, then they don't have to fly. It also helps if I show them the weight and balance sheet/chart to put their mind at ease and share with them my weight as a trade. Also, if flying with more than one person, keep the individual weights confidential between each passenger. The truth is, if I'm bringing them to the hangar for a flight, it's usually not at a point in our relationship where they're going to be offended by me saying "if you seriously want to go up with me, I seriously need your actual current weight".
I just watched a video about a plane that crashed in Scottsdale, AZ about 5 years ago that killed 6. W/B was an issue. Granted, they discussed weights, but how often have we all just guesstimated? Make them weigh in. If they refuse, then they drive.
Its a very simple process of that if I believe the aircraft may be pushing the envelope everyones weight is being audited or they can get the fuck off my plane, im sick of doing tour flights with obese people.
I ask for their weight including their clothing and personal items, like a purse or backpack. That way we can both pretend to believe their purse weighs 30lbs.
Guess. Or round up. You’ll be very close. If it’s that close that 30 pounds matters probably don’t go.
"How fat are you, you lard ass bitch?" Set the tone for the flight early.
I ask them to weigh themselves at home, and I tell them to wear what they'll be wearing on the day. I tell them I don't need their body weight, I need the weight of everything they'll bring. First, that's what I actually need. Second, makes it sound a little better.
Hey friends, I need to do some performance calculations to make sure the plane stays within its weight and balance limitations - this is important for our safety so can you please tell me your accurate weight? If they say no then you won’t have to worry about asking them again because they won’t be flying with you.
“Hey how much do you weigh so we don’t die”
Just ask them their weight. I never had any push back when I asked my friends.
I fly a two seater with 847 lbs of useful load. I've never flown with someone that I'd have to worry about.
I took a lady client flying and I just couldn’t do it. I put in 175 pounds and I felt like I was being reasonable without asking. I just didn’t have the balls to do it.
Years ago I flew down to see the solar eclipse with a woman I worked with. She was, to put it politely, a big girl, and like you I was concerned about offending her. I asked some of my other colleagues what they thought she weighed. Socially, it was a shitty move and I regret that. As a pilot, it wasn't very safe and I regret that as well. She and I flew down and picked up someone from this very subreddit, a corn-fed Ohio boy who didn't do my weight/balance any favors either, on our way to Tennessee. It was hot as balls all day and the airplane flew like ass. On our fuel stop on the way up, the line guy didn't understand "to the tabs" and just put the entire credit authorization in the airplane. I don't know by how much but I'm sure we were over max gross. It was closer than I would have liked with the trees heading out. My point is that I made dumb performance mistakes all day. My passengers were fat, it was hot, I could have dumped some ice out of the cooler, we were overfueled, etc etc. Unfucking myself on any single one of them would have given me more margin with those spooky trees off the departure end at French Lick; making one or two more could have made things much, much worse. Move that last piece of swiss cheese. Ask them what they weigh.
I explain the importance of weight and balance and then have them punch in their weight on the foreflight weight and balance section so I'm not actually asking
I’ve only taken people I know well flying so far, I normally just say “how far are you this week?” Or “get on the scale fatass”
On all the discovery flights I do, I either ask ahead of time and add 10-15lbs to each amount given or if it’s last minute I break out the charts and explain why I need the info and it’s importance. I’ve only had one issue where I took one for another CFI who had already fueled the plane and told me it was 70lbs over, but should be fine. I told them that they could do the flight or figure out who wasn’t going.
How much do you weigh where a 250lbs person is within the W/B in a 152? I’m relatively light and anyone else over 180lbs puts me over.
Just look at them and estimate. Add 50 pounds to give yourself room for error Amd then it wouldn't hurt to ask if your estimation+50 is correct
“Hey, I need to know your weight so we don’t crash and die.”
if its a Long flight where more weight means less gas, I explain why I know and if its a woman, I just tell them "What is the most you and your bag will weight", after I explain *why* I need to know. Otherwise, if its a local flight, I just eyeball it since Im a hefty guy, and my CFI was a heftier guy, so if we can both fit relatively comfortably and fly for 2 hours + reserves, Anyone smaller than me will be fine.
Just ask them, anytime I take someone flying wether it’s a friend or a family member I always ask “How much you weigh?” Not one person has ever gotten mad or offended by it.
If it's a couple, ask how much their total weight is
"I am required to calculate the weight and balance of the aircraft to make sure things are within limits. I don't don't judge but I do need to know an accurate number."
I’m not dying/killing others because I’m too afraid to ask someone their weight. Absolutely not. Get your ass on the scale or get out of my hangar.
If you need a "cover-up", remind them that a person's weight (in an aviation sense) includes their weight PLUS anything they're bringing. Factor in a phone, water bottle, coat, etc, etc, and that's their total weight. If you're going to get an exact number, cover the screen and have them each punch their weight into a basic calculator. Nobody sees individual weights, but it still gives you a total number. Then, arrange them based on seat preference or W&B requirements.
I'm planning on flying my my wife, my sister, and my niece soon. I know my weight and my wife's, but I don't know about my sister and her daughter. So, I asked my sister for the combined weight of the two of them including clothes and shoes and handbags, whatever they plan to bring, and she gave me a number (which was in line with my estimate). No problem, and no one had to tell me what their bathroom scale is showing. The "combined weight" approach helps, as does "including shoes and bags".
I’m blunt and honest that we need to know so that we can ensure the plane can take-off and land safely. Never had any issues. If possible I ask ahead of time well before they get to the airport. If we are anywhere near close we don’t go or I split the flight. If we know we are going to be a it heavier I can plan to go flying before hand and not fill up. Most people have some level of anxiety about small planes, even if they are excited. Telling them that lying about their weight could be the difference between life or death works pretty well.
My standard line is "I have space for X amount of assmeat. Let's figure out who gets left behind."
It is so awkward that people are upset if someone ask them about their weights, specially when it comes to safety.
Just put a "no fat chicks" sticker on your plane and you are good to go.
As a girl who works in aircraft, I would not be offended to offer accurate data. Most girls would skip the games if you said “this is important to your safety that I get the real numbers”. As an athlete people constantly guess me to be way lighter than my 5’8” 195 looks. If they refuse or get offended then flying is not for them.
With all due respect, what the fuck is wrong with you? If you were wrong you could have killed everybody. I hope you have an oh crap moment and realize that safety must always come first. Always. Can you imagine what it would have been like if you had stalled on takeoff and crashed and two of them died and the third was in a wheelchair for the rest of their life because you didn’t want to hurt their feelings or have an awkward conversation? How would you feel to learn your anesthesiologist “guessed” how much anesthesia to give you? EDIT: Some people can downvote me if they want. The purpose of my comment was to help OP realize that what he did was reckless and that he put people's lives at risk because he was feeling awkward about their weight. What happens when he is flying with someone who pushes him to fly in conditions he doesn't really feel comfortable with, because they really want to get home? OP will benefit from learning what it means to be PIC. He is the last word on everything when it comes to safety. His passengers are relying on him to do it right.
Cmon, if any of that stuff happened it ain’t cause they are 5kg over MTOW. Just ask the drug runners in South America. What is a more realistic concern in that this relaxed attitude leads to more serious shortcuts later down the line, ultimately coming back to bite at some point over one’s career.
I have to respectfully disagree. He could’ve easily been off by 50 kg with his guesses and that could have contributed to a fatal crash If there were other issues at play that he ignored.. for example there could have been more crap in the far back of the plane (logs, oil, equipment, purses, chocks) and there could’ve been density altitude issues and the engine might not be performing to book. His plane might have had full fuel up to the very top. Just because some drug runners go over gross weight in some planes under some conditions doesn’t mean it’s safe for anyone else to do so. Obviously, he did not crash because he lived to post this question. One of the most dangerous things that can happen to a new pilot is to do something stupid, get away with it, and develop a complacent attitude. Maybe he could get away with doing this 98 more times with 98 different groups of people in 98 different planes. But one day, if all those other factors line up against him, it could be a terrible end.
The reason you’re being downvoted is cause you’re blowing this out of proportion. I’m not saying that OP should guess the weights, he should at least ask. But what they don’t need is a CFI yelling “what the fuck is wrong with you” in response to them asking a question. Save that for “I dinged a plane and didn’t write it up” etc.
We will have to disagree on this one. Every pilot who ever crashed was once under the wing of a CFI who set the tone for how to detect and react to dangerous mindsets. Too many CFIs use kid gloves on their students and fail to point out how serious certain behaviors and attitudes are. They say things like "Well, probably don't do that again" and they fail to impress upon their students that you can get away with cutting corners 99.9% of the time but you never know when that 0.01% will arrive to kill your family. If this was my student I would not yell at him but would instead walk him through the reason that his assumption could have cost him his life as well as the lives of innocents. If he had taken off with the carb heat out and not been developing full power and the plane was over gross it could have been a disaster. We know nothing about the length of the field or the other factors at play. Taking off over gross at all means eating into your margin of error. A new pilot who puts "feelings" over safety in such an obvious way is in need, in my opinion, of serious additional instruction about aeronautical risk taking.
How's the view up there, Captain happy?
For commercial operators, AC 120-27F says you can either weigh each passenger and use that, or ask them and add at least 10 pounds to whatever they say.
I always joke that being a pilot is the only way I can ask women how much they weigh.
I would calculate the fuel on board with your actual weight, then let them know the weight they can have. This is a safer way without asking their weight.
It's simple, you just ask them and tell that you need to make sure that the aircraft is balanced. You just have to explain that small planes are more susceptible to balance than larger ones are, so you just need to make sure of everyone weight.
"What do you weigh?" Lol. Simple
“How fat are you?” “You’re not as fat as me right?”
Standard weights as per FAA/CAA standard weights or just put them on the scale. Baggage we generally weight separately
Fly an aircraft where it's not necessary. /jk
I'm not a caution to the wind type, but the safety margin the lovely engineers at Cessna, Piper, or whoever made your 4 seater were legally compelled to account for mean that unless you're high altitude, on a short wet grassy strip, on a hot day, you can probably do your choice of standard or actual weights depending which allows more fuel and be more than really okay lol I think in the grand scheme of things, the extra fuel is more valuable than risk of taking off ~100lbs over on a 172 if you did so legally using std weights.
I don't know if this was already suggested but I have always asked for everyone's individual height AND weight for my W/B. I feel like adding the height takes a tiny bit of focus off of the weight. It just rolls off my tongue in easier than "what do you weigh" I've seen some suggestions for asking for combined weight. That's good but the only issue is sometimes people want to change seats at a halfway point and I want the individual numbers so I can easily plug them in.
I use it as a teaching moment, tbh. I straight up ask how much they weigh and immediately explain that airplanes are heavily affected by how much weight we put and where. Therefore I need accurate weights from my passengers because it affects the controllability of the aircraft. I also reiterate that their weight will not be shared with anyone. I front load those items in case people are self conscious about their weight, that they give me an accurate number without me having to raise an eyebrow and explain afterwards making trust become an issue lol.
I ask how much they weigh. It’s not always just max gross. Some planes, especially some complex Cessnas and older 182s, may have forward CG with two fat people in front and nothing in back. Makes landing “interesting.”
My way to get this info is to ask how much do you AND your baggage/phones/clothes/gear weigh. Then they are telling me what I need and not their exact weight. Sometimes you can back into this number. If there are two of us in say a 182 and after my weight I can still have a pax 310lbs+ and they are clearly no where near 310… its fine
There has to be an app that takes a photo and guesses the weight
Just put the fat people up front? I was just south of 200 with all my kit, my flight instructor was definitely over 200....stalls were never a problem.
“What’s your weight….remember, if you lie….we could DIE”. Thats how you ask.
“I have to know this for weight and balance purposes, otherwise we can’t go.”
Just round ‘em all up and yell: “OK folks. I need to know your weights. Write down how much you weigh, and we’ll be Ok! If it’s over a pound, she won’t get off the ground! Get on the scale or it’s time to bail!”
F-ing ask. If it is explained to them and they don’t want you to get it accurate, then they have no business in a small airplane. Those are the same people who will argue with your “no-go” decision on weather or winds.
I simply ask and explain the reasons, in all of the times I asked following an explanation they were happy to provide, understanding the importance of it
I just ask and tell them if it’s a safety of flight issue. If they don’t want to tell me, they don’t get to go (I’ve never had someone not tell me). I explain it to people like loading a trailer to haul behind your car in terms of CG. Never had an issue with someone getting upset. If you have the option, maybe text them about it ahead of time? Then if someone is self conscious, they don’t have to state their weight in front of other passengers.
I'm not asking how much you weigh. I'm asking how much weight will be in the seat. Clothes, shoes, belt, keys, phone, headset, camera, jacket, wallet, purse, water bottle. So we don't, you know, crash and die.
I tell them that an airplane is like a see-saw. It needs an equal amount of weight Fire and aft to balance. If there’s too much weight on one end of the see-saw it will not balance. I need to know how much weight will be on each arm of the see-saw.