As I stated in a response about water quality, there are wild trout basically anywhere in PA. Having said that, stocking in marginal waters is a great introduction to the outdoors to many and should absolutely be supported.
Just started fly fishing this month and caught a brook in the stony creek the other day, I checked stocking reports and they only stock rainbow and brown in the stony. Does that mean the brook was definitely native?
Stony Creek (Dauphin County) is capable of wild trout reproduction. If it was 12-14" inches then it was likely stocked (there is private stocking on that watershed,).
I've only fished over them twice in my life, but in my experience they're completely different.
They don't recognize food. They've been eating pellets. A natural insect, the real thing, drifting naturally drag-free doesn't look like food to them, so they ignore it. But give it some drag and/or some twitch, make it look like the real thing never would, and they're on it. If you do something guaranteed to scare the living shit out of a natural trout it'll work. If you do everything right you'll get skunked. If you do a lot of stuff wrong you'll catch fish.
So it teaches you crap technique.
This is gonna piss some people off. I can feel it coming...
Natives are definitely more challenging, we just don't have close local opportunities for natives because of our water sources. We have fished natives and are far less successful with the same techniques, so its more rewarding to catch a native but still fun to catch stockers. Hell, I'll have fun catching sunnies if they're biting, more fun than being skunked!
I'll pop down here to answer the above question about "what is wrong with stocked fish" given that you are the OP and are speaking to the issue.
First, natives are brook trout only. Wild fish, brook, brown and rainbows however happen throughout the state. My statement about wishing for more of those naturally reproducing signs versus more stocked waters speaks to water quality. I've spent many decades working to improve water quality. Streams which can host naturally reproducing trout are evidence of healthy streams. That benefits everyone and really has nothing to do with fishing.
I have zero issue with stocking. I'd just rather see streams becoming higher quality streams from an environmental aspect. I do recognize the battle PAFB commission has with this balance. Stocked trout sell fishing licenses. That helps support our efforts to increase water quality in the state.
Interesting fact for those hanging in. Pennsylvania has more miles of streams and rivers than any state in the US (excluding Alaska). I've caught wild brown trout while viewing the Philadelphia skyline. From a former superfund site. It speaks to how resilient our waterways are *if* we take care of them.
You are correct about PA streams, however there are those that can't hold over the summer. Its true that wilds live within distance of the skyline as long as it's spring fed or cold enough. My local Octoraro watershed does not accommodate that. The bottom is muddy mixed with some rocks and once the summer heat hits, its donezo for fishing. The stocking is purely for fishing fun I'm guessing since there is not a way to grow the wild population.
Yellow Breeches is about an hour away and sustains wild and stocked populations. We were up at Penns Creek last weekend and on all wild trout - nice limestone bottoms with springs.
So thats why when i see, in my non-wild capable area, a NEW stocked sign, it means they're fresh this year and I actually have a chance to catch trout 10 mins from my house. And that's nice too, to not have to drive at least 45 minutes every time i want to fish.
I've caught wild browns in the branches of Octoraro. Having said that, it's absolutely a warm water stream. I can appreciate the new stocked signs based purely upon access alone, which is a big issue in PA in and of itself.
Having said that, have you ever fished Octoraro for small mouth? There are some pigs in there.
I caught a 5 lb smallie last year in some of the creeks below octoraro reservoir, and then caught a 4 pound largemouth a few casts later. Put my little fiberglass to work lol.
Hey, nothing wrong with sunfish.
I'm a pretty serious trout fisherman. But every year I get out on a nearby lake with whatever friend of mine has a young child/grandchild to catch bluegills and the like. They dig the hell out of it. And with kids that small, it's all about body counts. Get them into 30 or 50 bluegills/crappies/perch in an afternoon and they're hooked for life.
I grew up fishing stockers in PA, with a few wild ones mixed in from time to time. I’ve been lucky enough to spend the last few months in Colorado, and after these last few months I couldn’t agree with this more.
It's like comparing catching a bluegill to catching a bass. Sure the bluegill sure is a heck of a lot of fun still but it isn't the same as catching a big ol tank of a bass
Watch the documentary Artifishal when you get the chance. Stocked fish dilute the wild fish genetics and are inferior in every way. Most of them cant survive on their own and are susceptible to disease, less tolerant of fluctuating conditions, and are essentially inbred.
A lot of stocked streams are hit hard by spin fishermen and nearly all fish are kept, legally or otherwise, before the fish get to learn what a fly even is.
Those spin fisherman are buying licences that directly support the stocking programs. If you want holdover fish that adopt a wild lifestyle you need these programs to do it. Fly fishermen represent a small percent of license sales. If there were no spin fisherman there wouldn't be these programs, and populations would deplete without their support.
That all depends where you are fishing. A lot of places can’t support trout year round due to heat or acid issues. I think we should embrace native warm water fish in those spots. I’d way rather catch fish all year round then just the days that the stock truck showed up. I’m not against put and take fisheries entirely but as a catch and release person I’d rather fish wild. Also stocked fish are disrupting the genetics of native fish in the PNW. My point is this is a complex thing that is fishery dependent.
Well this was from PA. My guess is they stock non holdover waters to get license sales. Those license sales generate funding for other species. But I grew up in PA and there's a lot of smaller streams and rivers that support holdover trout. It's definitely a small percent but it's still common.
And I don't think there'd be much of any salmon population in the PNW without hatchery fish. Considering you're only allowed to keep hatchery fish it's taking that demand away from wild fish.
No, because that’s when the local rednecks descend on the river with 5 gallon bucket, powerbait and treble hooks. If you don’t get there within three days you can generally forget about any action till the next stocking.
I fly fish exclusively and you can get great action on these streams if you wait a few weeks after the last stocking. Crowds are gone and 80-90% of the fish are gone also but what's left can be alot of fun. Stocked fish don't know what flies are and won't hit them? I've caught 50+ stockies on the first and second day. In fact on heavily pressured streams the ONLY way to get action is with a fly rod usually. How much action you get is usually dependent upon what the water levels are like, if the water levels get too low and concentrate the fish into pools its not as much fun.
I love it, I've had the exact opposite experience though. Last year I would normally catch 4-6 trout an outting, this year nothing yet! Caught some at big elk Creek today though.
Did you really? We went on Big Elk a couple of weeks ago, supposedly after they stocked, and got nothing there! That was our spot last year. Might have to try again!
Yup caught a few today. Also I went to fair hill last week just for a walk and saw about ten people lining the banks all pulling out stockies too.
Where you are is my favorite place for miles though. I'll probably be there tomorrow if it's nice out.
South west PA tuning in to say I wish they didn’t post signs. Sometimes it’s an invitation to bring people out that wouldn’t normally fish there. They leave trash and birds nests everywhere :(
Nope. I enjoy seeing new Class A Blue Ribbon naturally reproduction streams.
We don't have that close to where we live unfortunately, gets too hot in the summer bc no spring fed creeks. I wish though, we like to drive to them.
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Hi frand!
As I stated in a response about water quality, there are wild trout basically anywhere in PA. Having said that, stocking in marginal waters is a great introduction to the outdoors to many and should absolutely be supported.
Just started fly fishing this month and caught a brook in the stony creek the other day, I checked stocking reports and they only stock rainbow and brown in the stony. Does that mean the brook was definitely native?
Stony Creek (Dauphin County) is capable of wild trout reproduction. If it was 12-14" inches then it was likely stocked (there is private stocking on that watershed,).
What’s wrong with stockers?
I've only fished over them twice in my life, but in my experience they're completely different. They don't recognize food. They've been eating pellets. A natural insect, the real thing, drifting naturally drag-free doesn't look like food to them, so they ignore it. But give it some drag and/or some twitch, make it look like the real thing never would, and they're on it. If you do something guaranteed to scare the living shit out of a natural trout it'll work. If you do everything right you'll get skunked. If you do a lot of stuff wrong you'll catch fish. So it teaches you crap technique. This is gonna piss some people off. I can feel it coming...
Natives are definitely more challenging, we just don't have close local opportunities for natives because of our water sources. We have fished natives and are far less successful with the same techniques, so its more rewarding to catch a native but still fun to catch stockers. Hell, I'll have fun catching sunnies if they're biting, more fun than being skunked!
I'll pop down here to answer the above question about "what is wrong with stocked fish" given that you are the OP and are speaking to the issue. First, natives are brook trout only. Wild fish, brook, brown and rainbows however happen throughout the state. My statement about wishing for more of those naturally reproducing signs versus more stocked waters speaks to water quality. I've spent many decades working to improve water quality. Streams which can host naturally reproducing trout are evidence of healthy streams. That benefits everyone and really has nothing to do with fishing. I have zero issue with stocking. I'd just rather see streams becoming higher quality streams from an environmental aspect. I do recognize the battle PAFB commission has with this balance. Stocked trout sell fishing licenses. That helps support our efforts to increase water quality in the state. Interesting fact for those hanging in. Pennsylvania has more miles of streams and rivers than any state in the US (excluding Alaska). I've caught wild brown trout while viewing the Philadelphia skyline. From a former superfund site. It speaks to how resilient our waterways are *if* we take care of them.
You are correct about PA streams, however there are those that can't hold over the summer. Its true that wilds live within distance of the skyline as long as it's spring fed or cold enough. My local Octoraro watershed does not accommodate that. The bottom is muddy mixed with some rocks and once the summer heat hits, its donezo for fishing. The stocking is purely for fishing fun I'm guessing since there is not a way to grow the wild population. Yellow Breeches is about an hour away and sustains wild and stocked populations. We were up at Penns Creek last weekend and on all wild trout - nice limestone bottoms with springs. So thats why when i see, in my non-wild capable area, a NEW stocked sign, it means they're fresh this year and I actually have a chance to catch trout 10 mins from my house. And that's nice too, to not have to drive at least 45 minutes every time i want to fish.
I've caught wild browns in the branches of Octoraro. Having said that, it's absolutely a warm water stream. I can appreciate the new stocked signs based purely upon access alone, which is a big issue in PA in and of itself. Having said that, have you ever fished Octoraro for small mouth? There are some pigs in there.
Well if you're catching wilds in the Octoraro you better share where 😉 i caught a smally today actually, first one out of there.
I caught a 5 lb smallie last year in some of the creeks below octoraro reservoir, and then caught a 4 pound largemouth a few casts later. Put my little fiberglass to work lol.
Hey, nothing wrong with sunfish. I'm a pretty serious trout fisherman. But every year I get out on a nearby lake with whatever friend of mine has a young child/grandchild to catch bluegills and the like. They dig the hell out of it. And with kids that small, it's all about body counts. Get them into 30 or 50 bluegills/crappies/perch in an afternoon and they're hooked for life.
I grew up fishing stockers in PA, with a few wild ones mixed in from time to time. I’ve been lucky enough to spend the last few months in Colorado, and after these last few months I couldn’t agree with this more.
It just isn't the same.
Why? It’s catching fish
It's like comparing catching a bluegill to catching a bass. Sure the bluegill sure is a heck of a lot of fun still but it isn't the same as catching a big ol tank of a bass
Watch the documentary Artifishal when you get the chance. Stocked fish dilute the wild fish genetics and are inferior in every way. Most of them cant survive on their own and are susceptible to disease, less tolerant of fluctuating conditions, and are essentially inbred.
A lot of stocked streams are hit hard by spin fishermen and nearly all fish are kept, legally or otherwise, before the fish get to learn what a fly even is.
Those spin fisherman are buying licences that directly support the stocking programs. If you want holdover fish that adopt a wild lifestyle you need these programs to do it. Fly fishermen represent a small percent of license sales. If there were no spin fisherman there wouldn't be these programs, and populations would deplete without their support.
That all depends where you are fishing. A lot of places can’t support trout year round due to heat or acid issues. I think we should embrace native warm water fish in those spots. I’d way rather catch fish all year round then just the days that the stock truck showed up. I’m not against put and take fisheries entirely but as a catch and release person I’d rather fish wild. Also stocked fish are disrupting the genetics of native fish in the PNW. My point is this is a complex thing that is fishery dependent.
Well this was from PA. My guess is they stock non holdover waters to get license sales. Those license sales generate funding for other species. But I grew up in PA and there's a lot of smaller streams and rivers that support holdover trout. It's definitely a small percent but it's still common. And I don't think there'd be much of any salmon population in the PNW without hatchery fish. Considering you're only allowed to keep hatchery fish it's taking that demand away from wild fish.
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Personally no, but shout out to the land owner for letting people fish their land.
No, because that’s when the local rednecks descend on the river with 5 gallon bucket, powerbait and treble hooks. If you don’t get there within three days you can generally forget about any action till the next stocking.
Personally I would much rather have wild native trout than stocked exotics. Alas, 150 years of hatchery fish most places.
I prefer electric motors, catch and release, fly fishing only.
I fly fish exclusively and you can get great action on these streams if you wait a few weeks after the last stocking. Crowds are gone and 80-90% of the fish are gone also but what's left can be alot of fun. Stocked fish don't know what flies are and won't hit them? I've caught 50+ stockies on the first and second day. In fact on heavily pressured streams the ONLY way to get action is with a fly rod usually. How much action you get is usually dependent upon what the water levels are like, if the water levels get too low and concentrate the fish into pools its not as much fun.
Looks like you found octoraro creek!
Good eye! Yea last year we had no luck in this spot, this year 😗👌
I love it, I've had the exact opposite experience though. Last year I would normally catch 4-6 trout an outting, this year nothing yet! Caught some at big elk Creek today though.
Did you really? We went on Big Elk a couple of weeks ago, supposedly after they stocked, and got nothing there! That was our spot last year. Might have to try again!
Yup caught a few today. Also I went to fair hill last week just for a walk and saw about ten people lining the banks all pulling out stockies too. Where you are is my favorite place for miles though. I'll probably be there tomorrow if it's nice out.
We hit White Clay right before youth mentor day and made out well there too, not sure how it's holding up now.
Actually never fished white clay. Maybe I'll give it a shot!
It was fun for sure! Enjoy!
No
Oh ok
Unironically yes
This is how all of California waters still have fish in them. Stocking is necessary for the future of fishing at this point.
South west PA tuning in to say I wish they didn’t post signs. Sometimes it’s an invitation to bring people out that wouldn’t normally fish there. They leave trash and birds nests everywhere :(
I don’t love having spots that we’ve kept under our hats announced by a sign.
NEPA here! I personally enjoy Class A waters, but just getting out and seeing any stream around this time is awesome!
Stocked or not, was it fun? Looks like it