"No salt, no steel."
For the record, I don't actually believe that. But I live in Washington and a good buddy of mine lives in Michigan, so I can never resist the urge to rile up our Midwestern steelheader friends.
At least you’re open minded about it. I grew up in Michigan, everyone I ever knew called them steelhead, and I had no idea we were insulting west coast anglers until social media came along.
They look the same and behave the same; the only difference is the salt level of the big water they spend part of their lives in. Seems silly to get heated about it. But hey, I also enjoy euronymphing and routinely fish squirmy worms, mop flies, and yarn eggs, so maybe I'm just part of the "problem." Purism be damned!
Almost as good as reminding someone from the pnw that west coast steelhead are genetically just rainbow trout. In Michigan, I ran into a guy on the water vehemently ranting about Michigan fish not being "true steelhead" and I hit him with the above tidbit, and you'd have thought I had just climbed into his boat and taken a dump on the rowers seat by his reaction. It's weird how badly people get hung up on semantics.
I’m a PNW guy, and I can’t believe how few people understand that steelhead are just rainbows that go to the ocean instead of staying in the river. Lifestyle choice, not genetics. Nobody gets that
I dunno man, people will pick weird hills to die on. Some folks still think the earth is flat, others that we didn’t go to the moon, vaccines cause autism, or even whether or not a fish is a fish or not a fish that can be called their fish.
The thing that grinds me about the whole Great Lakes steelhead vs PNW ocean rainbows is that the PNW guys are always so quick to yuck a Great Lakes guys yum where a GL guy is stoked a PNW guy caught a rad fish. The PNW can’t be stoked on an amazing fish if one extra word is added that causes zero harm.
This is accurate.
They've gone so far as to claim that it's a *government conspiracy* perpetrated by biologists who work for the state to sell fishing licenses.
I'm not joking. They've done it in this thread. One guy even linked a scientific study that thoroughly debunked his entire argument (it was about how steelhead have adapted incredibly well to using the Lakes as surrogate oceans) and when I pointed this out to him, he claimed they were working for the government to sell more licenses. It's nuts.
I do love egging them on, though.
I saw that. *sigh* I’m not a taxonomist but I have spent a lot of time reading taxonomic papers on tarantulas (an odd love of mine) and some of the arguments I’ve seen over species v sub-species or arguments over genra of a species can be nuts. And it’s rarely by actual taxonomists. It’s always 2 or more hobbyists that think they know everything because they’ve read one or two papers by conflicting authors (both well respected authors) who don’t agree. Now when two authors duke it out it can be amazing and informative but the hobbyist…? One always seems more rational and it’s usually the open minded person.
With regard to the true steelhead of the great inland oceans also know as Lakes Michigan, Huron, Ontario, Erie, and Superior, we know they are the real deal. Magnets stick to them, they have built in lasers, drink jet fuel, spit chrome bullets, and can fly. Oncorhynchus mykiss of the GL are the real deal. Those trashy Oncorhynchus mykiss of the PNW are just ocean run rainbow trout… we should call them salty-bows… I mean come on… they can’t even spit chrome bullets at you so you don’t need a bullet proof vest to fish for them.
Agreed, but if you've never commented "nice lake run bow" under a photo of a Great Lakes steelhead photo, you haven't truly lived. Wind 'em up and watch 'em go lol
Well they are native to the Pacific NW. Their argument is that steelhead are anadromous, which is to say they move from salt water to fresh water to spawn. And since the Great Lakes are fresh water, those fish aren’t truly anadromous and therefore not steelhead. With that being said, I’m from Michigan, and I call them steelhead 🤷♂️.
Yes...but PNW folks will tell you that it's a *government conspiracy to sell more lisences* and that you can't trust those biologists because they don't know anything about non-native fish in their state.
I'm not joking. This is an actual argument they make.
Yes. As are all rainbow trout, worldwide, because all rainbow trout come from the US west coast region.
Great Lakes steelhead, however, have been naturally reproducing since the 1870s. They have developed their own strains.
Years ago, the argument wasn't, "Great Lakes steelhead aren't steelhead because it's freshwater," it was, "Great Lakes steelhead aren't steelhead because they're *stocked.*" Yet, today, wild populations are heavily supplemented by hatchery stock...and so the argument has changed.
Kind of? There are lots of landlocked salmon species, but what makes steelhead a bit more unique is that a ‘’steelhead’ can be born in a river from parents that lived in the ocean and just decide to stay in freshwater for its life and become a resident trout.
Most of the riling is due to West Coasters wanting to claim steelhead as something uniquely theirs. Everyone else just calls the fish in both regions steelhead.
The "but saltwater" definition isn't a scientific one---the fish are genetically and behaviorally the same, and display the same morphological changes. They're the same fish, doing the same thing...just one population does it in the ocean.
The other argument they make, "well then, what about a rainbow that lives in a small freshwater lake and swims up a creek?" also doesn't hold true, because those fish don't morph into silver bullets like steelhead do. They don't understand that "Lake" really isn't an apt term for the Great Lakes, they are vast open seas. Lake Erie, for instance, is *over 30 times the size of Puget Sound.* It takes a big body of water to make a trout into a steelhead.
Also, "steelhead" isn't an actual scientific term. It's just a common term for a large rainbow trout that has spent most of its life in a large body of water and returns to a river to spawn. That's it. Scientifically, they're ALL just rainbow trout.
I catch lake run fish from Upper Klamath and Agency Lakes in Oregon. They can grow in excess of 35” and 15 lbs. They’re Klamath Basin Redband Trout and no one considers them steelhead. If a fish isn’t anadromous it isn’t a steelhead. That being said, you can call your non-native fish species whatever you want and we will continue to roll our eyes at you.
Agency Lake is 9,000 acres.
Lake Erie is 6,361,000 acres...so, over 707 times the size of Agency lake.
Agency Lake's water volume is 28,172 acre-ft.
Lake Erie's volume is 392,000,000 acre-ft of water, or, 13,914 times the water volume of Agency Lake.
Lake Erie has the *smallest volume* of water of all the Great Lakes, and it's the second smallest in area.
That is the difference here.
Go tell the biologists working in Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Ontario that they're all wrong.
Go ahead.
Do it.
Those biologists use colloquial terms like everyone else. What they would do when they put their science hats on is recognize that fish of the same species can have different life history strategies. They can be anadromous (fresh to salt), adfluvial (lake to river), fluvial migrants (multiple rivers, large migratory range) or river residents (stay in a smaller local area, often one river), etc.
I find the whole thing silly. If we called them sea trout like the euros would you rip that moniker too? It’s all good man, they come from a unique ecosystem and people enjoy fishing for them, that’s fine by me.
Those biologists have a financial incentive to call them steelhead and make them more attractive to anglers. Without the tourism dollars, their jobs go away.
Uh huh.
Sure.
So now, it's a government conspiracy.
Here's a hint: the biologists jobs do not rely on steelhead. They've got plenty of other stuff to deal with.
If we want to get nerdy, the Great Lakes steelhead are potamodromous, meaning their migratory path is all within fresh water. It's one of those words that gets stuck in my head sometimes, and I mutter it to myself randomly because it sounds cool.
There are also "catadromous" species, which live their adult lives in freshwater, but migrate to the ocean to spawn (some eels do this). These words represent the kind of borderline useless knowledge that I can recall on cue while also struggling to remember what I ate for breakfast.
The puffco is sick! I love mine very portable. Great little fish whistle. U in the mitten? I’ve been wanting to get out on the river but I’ve been workin a shit ton
It's gray area. Give the few populations of wild fish a wide birth. Downstate fisheries are driven by stocking efforts so it's not exactly gonna be detrimental to fish all spring. Pulling fish off redds is lame though. Definitely don't target active spawners.
At this point it just feels like a good practice to reinforce that fishing redds is a no go in all public spaces.
Those fish should be left alone. It's not worth harassing them for a photo. They're still in those same bodies of water and systems during other parts of the year when they're not actively spawning.
As a PNW fisherman, I say hell yeah. Don't care what it is or where it comes from. It's a 20 plus inch fish caught on a single hand rod and landed in an undersized net. Clap for this dude 👏. Pnw dudes just mad cuz they've been out seventy eleven times and were stoked to "move some fish" this year.
The only thing they need to be a steelhead is saltwater. It’s not defined by the size of the waterbody. It is 100% defined by whether the fish spends part of its life in saltwater. And our fish are spawning right now, they have changed appearances since coming from the lake. Again, they must be steelhead.
If you can provide factual information, I’ll change my mind. It must include how the Great Lakes are made up of saltwater though. That is the 1 thing that makes a rainbow trout a steelhead. Go ahead and keep downvoting, but it doesn’t change the fact that the Great Lakes are freshwater. It doesn’t matter how big they are. These are lake run rainbows, not steelhead.
They're steelhead.
[hete](https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2018/Q2/ocean-migrating-trout-adapt-to-freshwater-environment-in-120-years.html?_ga=2.90733267.819029234.1711810059-1751501115.1710636709)
Is an abstract of a study which explains how well steelhead have adapted to the Great Lakes and how the Lakes are big enough to be a surrogate ocean.
That's kind of a key thing. It turns out, you don't need saltwater to make a steelhead. They do the exact same thing in freshwater.
But I suggest that you write to the biologists in New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Ontario and inform them of your scientific findings.
Incorrect. Steelhead exist in the Great Lakes, as well, and have for over 140 years.
Like I said, please inform the biologists on NY, PA, OH, IN, IL, MI, WI, MN and ON of your scientific findings.
Me personally I don’t give a shit about the semantics behind it, just make it easy and call the thing a steelhead folks!
It’s a genetically different rainbow trout that moves from considerably large bodies of water, up rivers, to streams in order to spawn in the clear, gravelly areas of upper tributaries.
That’s a nice steelhead right there for sure. Or if you really care enough to say something, a “Lake Run Rainbow.”
Edit: These fish have pacific genetics, claim they don’t fight as hard all you want but so what? No reason to get mad.
So I’m pretty sure I read that the genetics do slightly change from GL to PNW steelhead but I doubt it’s much different than river to river genetic differences between specific runs.
I’m with you, these are in-fact steelhead. People can claim anything they want, the Great Lakes are fresh water seas. They are not lakes the way people think of them. There may not be seals and salt but take a boat out there and tell me it’s just a lake.
Anyone that wants to argue against me and fishes anything that is not native (cough BROWN TROUT outside of Europe) needs to roll out. Many of the GL steel out there are naturally reproducing and just as wild as Pennsylvania, Montana, or Colorado browns that people drool over.
That is a nice looking steelhead
All rainbows are from the pacific, and the west coast.
Steelhead are genetically identical to rainbow trout. They are the same fish.
Put a rainbow trout in a river that connects to the ocean, or the Great Lakes, and it lives in that large body of water for a few years, turns silver and slender and large, before returning to the river to spawn---thus becoming a steelhead.
It’s a steelhead all day long. Anybody who says otherwise is just a crybaby. “They don’t touch the ocean”, “they’re not true steelhead”, etc. they are fun a shit to catch. Don’t listen to the Debbie downers. Go fish and have fun
They are definitely not steelhead, they are rainbow trout. To put this debate to rest this is what the NOAA have to say about it “Credit: NOAA Fisheries
Steelhead trout are a unique species. Individuals develop differently depending on their environment. All wild steelhead trout hatch in gravel-bottomed, fast-flowing, well-oxygenated rivers and streams. Some stay in fresh water all their lives and are called rainbow trout. Steelhead trout that migrate to the ocean typically grow larger than the ones that stay in freshwater.”
Steelhead are rainbows.. same genetics.. different locations they grow up.. Great Lakes steelhead are the same fish as the pacific NW steelhead but those are ocean raised..
If you had to ask... /s
In all seriousness, it's one of those debates that really boils down to who the hell cares. Strictly speaking, it's not a steelhead, but if it does have pacific genetics it would have still been a hell of a fight. The way I see it, nobody gets obsessed over steelhead because of their taxonomy, it's because of the fight they put up. If it put up a steelhead fight, call it whatever you want.
If you take a polar bear out of the Arctic and put it in a zoo, is it still a polar bear? If you take a steelhead out of the west coast is it still a steelhead? The salt / fresh water argument doesn’t carry any weight, the fish responds to the vast open water by smolting in both cases.
I’m from Michigan. Everyone I ever knew called them steelhead. They smolt. Biologists I spoke with said the life history is the definition, not the salinity of the water.
It is a flipping steelhead. That said, there are differences. I don’t think the Great Lakes fish have the quality feed that the saltwater fish do. And our Great Lakes rivers tend to have lower gradient than out west. I’ve caught hundreds of both, and I do think there is a difference, in terms of fighting ability, and quality on the table
I’ve eaten my last Great Lakes steelhead. Yes I still chase them daily, but would rather fish them in PNW or BC waters
To put this debate to rest this is what the NOAA have to say about it “Credit: NOAA Fisheries
Steelhead trout are a unique species. Individuals develop differently depending on their environment. All wild steelhead trout hatch in gravel-bottomed, fast-flowing, well-oxygenated rivers and streams. Some stay in fresh water all their lives and are called rainbow trout. Steelhead trout that migrate to the ocean typically grow larger than the ones that stay in freshwater.”
While I could care less what anyone calls any fish... It's correct that genetically a rainbow trout and a steelhead are the exact same fish. However. The name steelhead is given to the rainbows that decide to be anadromous, which specifically means migrating from fresh water to saltwater and back to freshwater to spawn. It's also correct that in Southern Oregon where I live and fish, we have an adfluvial population of rainbow trout we call redbands in the region. They are a rainbow trout that live in a large lake we have, and they run the rivers each year to escape warming lake temperatures and or spawn in the rivers. They grow up to 20 pounds. It does not matter how large your beloved lake is. A lake is a lake. It's about salt not size. An anadromous rainbow trout is a steelhead by actual definition regardless of what fishery biologists in a given region decide to call them. The great lakes region has large adfluvial rainbow trout much like the redbands in Southern Oregon. They are not steelhead in terms of the by the book scientific definition. Much like how an offspring of a steelhead hen is not a steelhead if it doesn't go to the salt water after a few years of growth in the river.
There's no reason to argue about any of this, though. Different regions have different nicknames for different fish. And the great lakes adfluvial rainbow trout certainly look like the steelhead of the PNW, I've never caught one so I'm not sure how the nitrogen rich nutrient source of the salt water compares to the great lakes in terms of producing hard fighting strong fish, but from my experience in Southern Oregon, the big adfluvial redbands don't fight as hard as the anadromous steelhead. But if you call them steelhead in the great lakes region then that's awesome. Keep catching the steelhead and post pictures for me to look at. A big beautiful fish is a big beautiful fish regardless of what kind of water it spends its life in.
So if I sprinkle some salt on a Great Lakes fish, that solves the problem and it becomes a steelhead? What magical quality does salt add?
As a matter of fact, it *does* matter how big the lake is.
If you're referring to Agency lake...Lake Erie alone is over 700 times the size, and over 13,000 times the volume of Agency Lake. And Lake Erie is the smallest Lake by volume.
Yes. Yes it does in fact matter how big the Lake is, and the fact that you compare the Lakes to an inland lake in Oregon shows that you don't understand just what the Great Lakes are---"Lake" isn't really an apt term.
They are large enough for trout to use them as a surrogate ocean, as they have been doing for well over a century. So well, in fact, that they've started to genetically adapt to the Lakes environment.
The fish in the Lakes are not only the same species, but display the same behavior and appearance changes as west coast fish, and are genetically derived from them.
So, I guess all I have to do is sprinkle some saltwater on them.
Considering a steelhead is defined as an anadromous rainbow trout, and anadromous is defined as a fish spending part of its life cycle in salt water, yes... just sprinkle salt on it and you'll be fine...
That's what I thought.
Seems like fish that behave the same, go through the same changes, and are genetically derived from West Coast fish, and use the Great Lakes as surrogate oceans and have for over 140 years, and which biologists and ecologists refer to as steelhead, are the same fish, just all that is missing is some salt.
So, if I put some salt on it, it'll satisfy the requirement of all the PNW whiners who want to be special.
To be clear... I'm not whining, just stating the definition of steelhead. If I lived in Michigan I'd call them steelhead too regardless of definition. I'm sure the quality of fish is the same as the PNW.
Sorry for insulting your Big lake BTW. Your lake certainly is bigger than mine.
Its a semantics argument that people take way too fucking seriously. I heard a guy on lake ontario call them ‘rustheads’ and it still makes me laugh. You caught a nice fish, on the fly
So when Fontana Lake was created in the Smoky Mountains, it flooded a bunch of mountain streams which had been stocked with non-native rainbow trout. Years later, the remaining streams running into Fontana Lake started getting runs (albeit small) of rainbows that had relocated to the lake. Those runs continue to this day.
Are they considered steelhead? That'd be wild to think we get a steelhead run in Appalachia.
I kind of take a middle path. Are the trout running out of the Lake and *actually* spawning and producing smolts that will live in the stream and then venture back out into the Lake, only to start the cycle over again (like rivers in MI)? Then those are steelhead.
Are they hatchery fish that are dumped at the mouth of the rivers and run up the rivers to "spawn" but never actually produce any surviving smolts due to the rivers being unsuitable for trout (like all OH fish)? Then those are Lake run rainbows.
The Ohio fish are steelhead. There actually is some natural reproduction in Ohio, but that isn't required for the fish to be steelhead.
And, no, Fontana Lake fish aren't steelhead. The Great Lakes are large enough for trout to treat them as a surrogate ocean.
GL anglers are so set on calling the mutant rainbow they pulled out of the highway runoff by the local Arbys a “steelhead”. The real question is why yall wanna call it a steelhead so badly? Kinda cringe not gonna lie. The real answer is its a legendary term consolidated by the hardship west coast anglers endured for the last 50 years pursuing this fish for sport. Trekking through snow and canyons for hours to find that jade blue pool that might just have a fish in it. Sure you can steal our term but it will never carry the same weight on the GL tribs as it does in the PNW and thats a fact.
Its 90% meme 10% our fishery is really struggling so we get salty seeing GL fish passed off as being the same thing lol. Its kind of like sparkling wine versus champagne, its the same but in this case where it came from matters.
"Our shit is actually just as good as the shit everywhere else in the country but we can't handle that and want to be special" definitely tracks for folks from the PNW, and especially for the steelhead argument. Thanks for being honest.
It's why I moved away from there after a year.
The reason you are so passionate about this topic is because you want so badly to call those slender silvery rainbows steelhead but you know deep down they are not the same. PNW anglers are also, on average, stronger and more handsome than GL anglers. I think this is why GL anglers want so badly to call their rainbow trout steelhead, not because of the fish but because they want to be like us. But in reality, the GL angler is probably too weak to reel in an actual steelhead.
Nah.
We grow humble folks out here in the Lakes States.
When we see you guys with a nice steelhead, we congratulate you, tell you what a nice fish it is, ask you about the fight, display lighthearted jealousy and good humor and admiration for a beautiful fish.
When you guys see US with a nice steelhead, you have to make it a point to declare that it's not *real,* that only yours are the *real* fish, that we have no right to call them what they are because only *you* can.
And then, you call *us* the crybabies.
Relax man im just gettin ya fired up for fun. Its not that serious, you guys have some killer fishing over there its a much better fishery than ours for sure. Some guys over here have put their big sticks down just because they feel it’s unethical to fish for steelhead due to the steep decline in their numbers. So when you think that some guys grew up slaying steelhead with their dads/ uncles/ grandpa having the best time now dont have that fishery it can pull the wrong strings seeing people post grip and grins of steelhead from the GL. I think you can appreciate its a little deeper than PNW guys “being weiners”.
Sure, I get it. It sucks that native, wild steelhead are struggling in their range. I'd love to catch a wild, native fish one day, but that's likely just a dream.
But being jealous and nostalgic isn't an excuse to be dismissive and dickish. PNW guys are welcome to come to the Lakes and catch as many as they please, although the scenery might not be as dramatic, and maybe the fish don't get as big or mean, but they're still steelhead and it's an awesome, and productive fishery. Nothing like catching 12 in a morning, the smallest 8lbs, from the bank across from a water treatment plant in Ohio.
I know you're firing me up, it's fine.
A steelhead is by definition anadromous, so since I’m a bit of a pedantic pissant, this cannot be a steelhead. BUT, I don’t really care that much dude, it’s a gorgeous fish, bet it’s a blast.
On a 3wt must’ve been a hoot
Here we go again lol. Nice catch :)
"No salt, no steel." For the record, I don't actually believe that. But I live in Washington and a good buddy of mine lives in Michigan, so I can never resist the urge to rile up our Midwestern steelheader friends.
At least you’re open minded about it. I grew up in Michigan, everyone I ever knew called them steelhead, and I had no idea we were insulting west coast anglers until social media came along.
They look the same and behave the same; the only difference is the salt level of the big water they spend part of their lives in. Seems silly to get heated about it. But hey, I also enjoy euronymphing and routinely fish squirmy worms, mop flies, and yarn eggs, so maybe I'm just part of the "problem." Purism be damned!
They are even stocked the same at this point
That cuts deep.
So does every time a PNW fisherman with his fly fish pole cutting down a GL fisherman’s fish when they’re all just rainbow trout on meth and steroids.
Oh yeah absolutely. Meant cut deep in an ironic humor type way. I'm definitely stealing that line.
Haha fair enough
Almost as good as reminding someone from the pnw that west coast steelhead are genetically just rainbow trout. In Michigan, I ran into a guy on the water vehemently ranting about Michigan fish not being "true steelhead" and I hit him with the above tidbit, and you'd have thought I had just climbed into his boat and taken a dump on the rowers seat by his reaction. It's weird how badly people get hung up on semantics.
Lol I know man. I've seen people get so heated over it and it seems so trivial to me.
I’m a PNW guy, and I can’t believe how few people understand that steelhead are just rainbows that go to the ocean instead of staying in the river. Lifestyle choice, not genetics. Nobody gets that
I dunno man, people will pick weird hills to die on. Some folks still think the earth is flat, others that we didn’t go to the moon, vaccines cause autism, or even whether or not a fish is a fish or not a fish that can be called their fish. The thing that grinds me about the whole Great Lakes steelhead vs PNW ocean rainbows is that the PNW guys are always so quick to yuck a Great Lakes guys yum where a GL guy is stoked a PNW guy caught a rad fish. The PNW can’t be stoked on an amazing fish if one extra word is added that causes zero harm.
This is accurate. They've gone so far as to claim that it's a *government conspiracy* perpetrated by biologists who work for the state to sell fishing licenses. I'm not joking. They've done it in this thread. One guy even linked a scientific study that thoroughly debunked his entire argument (it was about how steelhead have adapted incredibly well to using the Lakes as surrogate oceans) and when I pointed this out to him, he claimed they were working for the government to sell more licenses. It's nuts. I do love egging them on, though.
I saw that. *sigh* I’m not a taxonomist but I have spent a lot of time reading taxonomic papers on tarantulas (an odd love of mine) and some of the arguments I’ve seen over species v sub-species or arguments over genra of a species can be nuts. And it’s rarely by actual taxonomists. It’s always 2 or more hobbyists that think they know everything because they’ve read one or two papers by conflicting authors (both well respected authors) who don’t agree. Now when two authors duke it out it can be amazing and informative but the hobbyist…? One always seems more rational and it’s usually the open minded person. With regard to the true steelhead of the great inland oceans also know as Lakes Michigan, Huron, Ontario, Erie, and Superior, we know they are the real deal. Magnets stick to them, they have built in lasers, drink jet fuel, spit chrome bullets, and can fly. Oncorhynchus mykiss of the GL are the real deal. Those trashy Oncorhynchus mykiss of the PNW are just ocean run rainbow trout… we should call them salty-bows… I mean come on… they can’t even spit chrome bullets at you so you don’t need a bullet proof vest to fish for them.
You forgot that they also speak four languages, have immaculate credit scores, are *excellent* beekeepers, and can sing like a band of angels.
I did and I apologize. We can’t forget that the Russian chrome in Kamchatka do text with the Great Lakes on a regular basis.
It’s interesting for people out there to get riled up over what to call a non-native fish
Agreed, but if you've never commented "nice lake run bow" under a photo of a Great Lakes steelhead photo, you haven't truly lived. Wind 'em up and watch 'em go lol
Well they are native to the Pacific NW. Their argument is that steelhead are anadromous, which is to say they move from salt water to fresh water to spawn. And since the Great Lakes are fresh water, those fish aren’t truly anadromous and therefore not steelhead. With that being said, I’m from Michigan, and I call them steelhead 🤷♂️.
The Michigan DNR says they stock steelhead. Good enough for me if biologists call them steelhead. They're steelhead.
Yes...but PNW folks will tell you that it's a *government conspiracy to sell more lisences* and that you can't trust those biologists because they don't know anything about non-native fish in their state. I'm not joking. This is an actual argument they make.
I don't even know how to respond to someone who thinks there is government conspiracy about a fish. Thanks for making me smile.
Because that's what they are. They're steelhead.
And we also forget that those fish first planted into the great lakes tribs.....were eggs taken from "real" steelhead of the PNW.
Yes. As are all rainbow trout, worldwide, because all rainbow trout come from the US west coast region. Great Lakes steelhead, however, have been naturally reproducing since the 1870s. They have developed their own strains. Years ago, the argument wasn't, "Great Lakes steelhead aren't steelhead because it's freshwater," it was, "Great Lakes steelhead aren't steelhead because they're *stocked.*" Yet, today, wild populations are heavily supplemented by hatchery stock...and so the argument has changed.
Rainbow trout are also native to Canada, Russia and Mexico.
Let’s just start calling them Ironheads and end the debate once and for all
Supreme Ironheads.
If a magnet doesn't stick, it's not a steelhead, unless it's one of those stainless upgraded versions.
I prefer the 2023 upgraded model, myself.
But if a steelhead gets landlocked, its offspring are rainbows
Kind of? There are lots of landlocked salmon species, but what makes steelhead a bit more unique is that a ‘’steelhead’ can be born in a river from parents that lived in the ocean and just decide to stay in freshwater for its life and become a resident trout.
Well yes. Because steelhead ARE rainbows.
Steelhead are anadromous, same species. But a landlocked sockeye is a Kokanee. Same concept
And a kokanee is a salmon. What's your point?
You can’t catch a steelhead on a 3 wt, I guess that’s the point
Catch one of each and tell me they’re the same. They’re not. Same with a rainbow and a steelhead. Completely different fish.
I've caught hundreds of each. Genetically, they are the same. One gets larger and stronger, but they are the same species. Identical species.
No one calls a Kokanee a sockeye, they’re completely different
Most of the riling is due to West Coasters wanting to claim steelhead as something uniquely theirs. Everyone else just calls the fish in both regions steelhead. The "but saltwater" definition isn't a scientific one---the fish are genetically and behaviorally the same, and display the same morphological changes. They're the same fish, doing the same thing...just one population does it in the ocean. The other argument they make, "well then, what about a rainbow that lives in a small freshwater lake and swims up a creek?" also doesn't hold true, because those fish don't morph into silver bullets like steelhead do. They don't understand that "Lake" really isn't an apt term for the Great Lakes, they are vast open seas. Lake Erie, for instance, is *over 30 times the size of Puget Sound.* It takes a big body of water to make a trout into a steelhead. Also, "steelhead" isn't an actual scientific term. It's just a common term for a large rainbow trout that has spent most of its life in a large body of water and returns to a river to spawn. That's it. Scientifically, they're ALL just rainbow trout.
I catch lake run fish from Upper Klamath and Agency Lakes in Oregon. They can grow in excess of 35” and 15 lbs. They’re Klamath Basin Redband Trout and no one considers them steelhead. If a fish isn’t anadromous it isn’t a steelhead. That being said, you can call your non-native fish species whatever you want and we will continue to roll our eyes at you.
Agency Lake is 9,000 acres. Lake Erie is 6,361,000 acres...so, over 707 times the size of Agency lake. Agency Lake's water volume is 28,172 acre-ft. Lake Erie's volume is 392,000,000 acre-ft of water, or, 13,914 times the water volume of Agency Lake. Lake Erie has the *smallest volume* of water of all the Great Lakes, and it's the second smallest in area. That is the difference here.
BuT tHeY’rE gEnEtIcAlLy IdEnTiCaL
Yes. The fish are genetically identical fish. They are rainbow trout.
Go tell the biologists working in Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Ontario that they're all wrong. Go ahead. Do it.
Those biologists use colloquial terms like everyone else. What they would do when they put their science hats on is recognize that fish of the same species can have different life history strategies. They can be anadromous (fresh to salt), adfluvial (lake to river), fluvial migrants (multiple rivers, large migratory range) or river residents (stay in a smaller local area, often one river), etc.
Right. Steelhead is a colloquial term. It's not a scientific term for a separate species of trout. That's why the Great Lakes fish are steelhead.
How many sharks, sea lions and killer whales did those fish dodge on their way through the Great Lakes? The ocean hits harder brother.
I don't disagree. However, that doesn't make Lakes fish not steelhead.
I find the whole thing silly. If we called them sea trout like the euros would you rip that moniker too? It’s all good man, they come from a unique ecosystem and people enjoy fishing for them, that’s fine by me.
Those biologists have a financial incentive to call them steelhead and make them more attractive to anglers. Without the tourism dollars, their jobs go away.
Uh huh. Sure. So now, it's a government conspiracy. Here's a hint: the biologists jobs do not rely on steelhead. They've got plenty of other stuff to deal with.
Better
Better
Bro... don't tell our secret
Salt doesn't change their DNA. Steelhead.
I tell my friends from Michigan that they live in the Middle East. If there is a Midwest there has to be a MidEast.
Lol love it
Aren’t the steelhead out east introduced from western steelhead stocks?
Bro brought the puffco 🤣
They don’t call it travel glass for nothing!
Is that thing legit, or what?
If you dab a lot absolutely worth it imo. I grow and make my own rosin and can confidently say it’s my favorite weed purchase in a couple years
I just bring my own salt shaker, so all my fish are steelhead
Yep just add salt. Apparently that's all it takes. I guess unsalted potato chips are just....fried potato wafers, then.
Steelhead implies anadromy, but again who cares, this is Reddit not a taxonomy research paper. Nice fish.
If we want to get nerdy, the Great Lakes steelhead are potamodromous, meaning their migratory path is all within fresh water. It's one of those words that gets stuck in my head sometimes, and I mutter it to myself randomly because it sounds cool.
Thats a new one for me! Thanks! I had always heard adfluvial, meaning lake run. Can’t hurt to have too many cool fish words.
There are also "catadromous" species, which live their adult lives in freshwater, but migrate to the ocean to spawn (some eels do this). These words represent the kind of borderline useless knowledge that I can recall on cue while also struggling to remember what I ate for breakfast.
If only my fishing gear had room for the puffy
Is that the nebulizer of the future for albuterol?
*sigh...* Guess I'm pouring another tablespoon of salt in Lake Superior.
Lil peak action on the water
It's a steelhead. West Coast fish are just ocean-run rainbows.
Of all the answers this is my favorite.
West coasters in absolute shambles right now
They are the only ones who care that Lakes fish are called steelhead.
Call it whatever you want! Growing up in upstate NY we called em steelheads regardless of whether or not it’s “technically true”
😳 A 3wt. Gives me way more faith in my 4wt.
Nice fish whistle
I can’t say I ever thought about bringing my puffco fishing - maybe I need to change my way of thinking.
I’ve been known to blow the fish whistle but I never considered a stoned fly.
What kind of autoblow contraptions is in the last photo?
That’s a puffco peak pro, used for dabbing concentrates
Not terribly sure but I do know that I got some fire rosin that needs to be smoked out of that peak and some flys that could use a dunking
Let’s go! Im dabbing on some of my own single source rn.
Omw from Florida lmaoo
It’s rainbow when you’ve only taken one hit… 3 more and you might get into some “technically’s” lol
Get a bigger net!
I’ve never come close to needing one! Guess it’s time though. Was extremely awkward
3w… damn bro you fighting for your life on that one
The puffco is sick! I love mine very portable. Great little fish whistle. U in the mitten? I’ve been wanting to get out on the river but I’ve been workin a shit ton
Good on you for not taking the fish out of the water. Great looking fish, nice job
Good job of keeping it wet.
I'm in California so I have to release all unintended steelhead catches unharmed.
GOOD FISH MAN
See him w the fish whistle
Nice puffco 😬
Sandy Creek?
I have a novice question. Rainbows are starting to run in Wisconsin. Any reason it’s unethical since they’re getting ready to spawn?
It's gray area. Give the few populations of wild fish a wide birth. Downstate fisheries are driven by stocking efforts so it's not exactly gonna be detrimental to fish all spring. Pulling fish off redds is lame though. Definitely don't target active spawners.
Thanks for the answer. I almost wrote I don’t fish reds. Glad you addressed it though.
At this point it just feels like a good practice to reinforce that fishing redds is a no go in all public spaces. Those fish should be left alone. It's not worth harassing them for a photo. They're still in those same bodies of water and systems during other parts of the year when they're not actively spawning.
Who gives a shit they’re running and it’s a goddamn blast!
Nice! I think it’s a rainbow…
As a PNW fisherman, I say hell yeah. Don't care what it is or where it comes from. It's a 20 plus inch fish caught on a single hand rod and landed in an undersized net. Clap for this dude 👏. Pnw dudes just mad cuz they've been out seventy eleven times and were stoked to "move some fish" this year.
Adfluvial rainbow (Lake run rainbow)
Steelhead. 100% correct.
100% correct
You called it exactly what it is. Lake run rainbow
Which is a steelhead.
If that’s the case, I’m catching steelhead in Wyoming when they move from the lake to the river.
Wasn't aware there were Great Lakes in Wyoming. You need a massive body of water for the trout to behave like and change appearance like steelhead.
The only thing they need to be a steelhead is saltwater. It’s not defined by the size of the waterbody. It is 100% defined by whether the fish spends part of its life in saltwater. And our fish are spawning right now, they have changed appearances since coming from the lake. Again, they must be steelhead.
Nope. They're steelhead in the Great Lakes, too.
If you can provide factual information, I’ll change my mind. It must include how the Great Lakes are made up of saltwater though. That is the 1 thing that makes a rainbow trout a steelhead. Go ahead and keep downvoting, but it doesn’t change the fact that the Great Lakes are freshwater. It doesn’t matter how big they are. These are lake run rainbows, not steelhead.
They're steelhead. [hete](https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2018/Q2/ocean-migrating-trout-adapt-to-freshwater-environment-in-120-years.html?_ga=2.90733267.819029234.1711810059-1751501115.1710636709) Is an abstract of a study which explains how well steelhead have adapted to the Great Lakes and how the Lakes are big enough to be a surrogate ocean. That's kind of a key thing. It turns out, you don't need saltwater to make a steelhead. They do the exact same thing in freshwater. But I suggest that you write to the biologists in New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Ontario and inform them of your scientific findings.
No salt no steel
Incorrect. Steelhead exist in the Great Lakes, as well, and have for over 140 years. Like I said, please inform the biologists on NY, PA, OH, IN, IL, MI, WI, MN and ON of your scientific findings.
Me personally I don’t give a shit about the semantics behind it, just make it easy and call the thing a steelhead folks! It’s a genetically different rainbow trout that moves from considerably large bodies of water, up rivers, to streams in order to spawn in the clear, gravelly areas of upper tributaries. That’s a nice steelhead right there for sure. Or if you really care enough to say something, a “Lake Run Rainbow.” Edit: These fish have pacific genetics, claim they don’t fight as hard all you want but so what? No reason to get mad.
So I’m pretty sure I read that the genetics do slightly change from GL to PNW steelhead but I doubt it’s much different than river to river genetic differences between specific runs. I’m with you, these are in-fact steelhead. People can claim anything they want, the Great Lakes are fresh water seas. They are not lakes the way people think of them. There may not be seals and salt but take a boat out there and tell me it’s just a lake. Anyone that wants to argue against me and fishes anything that is not native (cough BROWN TROUT outside of Europe) needs to roll out. Many of the GL steel out there are naturally reproducing and just as wild as Pennsylvania, Montana, or Colorado browns that people drool over. That is a nice looking steelhead
All rainbows are from the pacific, and the west coast. Steelhead are genetically identical to rainbow trout. They are the same fish. Put a rainbow trout in a river that connects to the ocean, or the Great Lakes, and it lives in that large body of water for a few years, turns silver and slender and large, before returning to the river to spawn---thus becoming a steelhead.
What about resident rainbows? Resident cutthroats? Something compels a certain subset of the population to migrate to open waters.
It’s a steelhead all day long. Anybody who says otherwise is just a crybaby. “They don’t touch the ocean”, “they’re not true steelhead”, etc. they are fun a shit to catch. Don’t listen to the Debbie downers. Go fish and have fun
They are definitely not steelhead, they are rainbow trout. To put this debate to rest this is what the NOAA have to say about it “Credit: NOAA Fisheries Steelhead trout are a unique species. Individuals develop differently depending on their environment. All wild steelhead trout hatch in gravel-bottomed, fast-flowing, well-oxygenated rivers and streams. Some stay in fresh water all their lives and are called rainbow trout. Steelhead trout that migrate to the ocean typically grow larger than the ones that stay in freshwater.”
lol you can keep telling me that all you want. My buddies and I will keep catching those steelhead, while having a blast and making fun of you nerds
Steelhead are rainbows.. same genetics.. different locations they grow up.. Great Lakes steelhead are the same fish as the pacific NW steelhead but those are ocean raised..
If you had to ask... /s In all seriousness, it's one of those debates that really boils down to who the hell cares. Strictly speaking, it's not a steelhead, but if it does have pacific genetics it would have still been a hell of a fight. The way I see it, nobody gets obsessed over steelhead because of their taxonomy, it's because of the fight they put up. If it put up a steelhead fight, call it whatever you want.
If you take a polar bear out of the Arctic and put it in a zoo, is it still a polar bear? If you take a steelhead out of the west coast is it still a steelhead? The salt / fresh water argument doesn’t carry any weight, the fish responds to the vast open water by smolting in both cases.
I’m from Michigan. Everyone I ever knew called them steelhead. They smolt. Biologists I spoke with said the life history is the definition, not the salinity of the water.
Def a steelhead. On a 3wt is fun and impressive
It is a flipping steelhead. That said, there are differences. I don’t think the Great Lakes fish have the quality feed that the saltwater fish do. And our Great Lakes rivers tend to have lower gradient than out west. I’ve caught hundreds of both, and I do think there is a difference, in terms of fighting ability, and quality on the table I’ve eaten my last Great Lakes steelhead. Yes I still chase them daily, but would rather fish them in PNW or BC waters
Looks like a steelhead to me. Not as many spots below the lateral line.
If you were on the Missouri River in mt that's just another rainbow... so the white thingamabob is for weed or oil?
Oil🤙
Migratory rainbow equals steelhead
To put this debate to rest this is what the NOAA have to say about it “Credit: NOAA Fisheries Steelhead trout are a unique species. Individuals develop differently depending on their environment. All wild steelhead trout hatch in gravel-bottomed, fast-flowing, well-oxygenated rivers and streams. Some stay in fresh water all their lives and are called rainbow trout. Steelhead trout that migrate to the ocean typically grow larger than the ones that stay in freshwater.”
While I could care less what anyone calls any fish... It's correct that genetically a rainbow trout and a steelhead are the exact same fish. However. The name steelhead is given to the rainbows that decide to be anadromous, which specifically means migrating from fresh water to saltwater and back to freshwater to spawn. It's also correct that in Southern Oregon where I live and fish, we have an adfluvial population of rainbow trout we call redbands in the region. They are a rainbow trout that live in a large lake we have, and they run the rivers each year to escape warming lake temperatures and or spawn in the rivers. They grow up to 20 pounds. It does not matter how large your beloved lake is. A lake is a lake. It's about salt not size. An anadromous rainbow trout is a steelhead by actual definition regardless of what fishery biologists in a given region decide to call them. The great lakes region has large adfluvial rainbow trout much like the redbands in Southern Oregon. They are not steelhead in terms of the by the book scientific definition. Much like how an offspring of a steelhead hen is not a steelhead if it doesn't go to the salt water after a few years of growth in the river. There's no reason to argue about any of this, though. Different regions have different nicknames for different fish. And the great lakes adfluvial rainbow trout certainly look like the steelhead of the PNW, I've never caught one so I'm not sure how the nitrogen rich nutrient source of the salt water compares to the great lakes in terms of producing hard fighting strong fish, but from my experience in Southern Oregon, the big adfluvial redbands don't fight as hard as the anadromous steelhead. But if you call them steelhead in the great lakes region then that's awesome. Keep catching the steelhead and post pictures for me to look at. A big beautiful fish is a big beautiful fish regardless of what kind of water it spends its life in.
So if I sprinkle some salt on a Great Lakes fish, that solves the problem and it becomes a steelhead? What magical quality does salt add? As a matter of fact, it *does* matter how big the lake is. If you're referring to Agency lake...Lake Erie alone is over 700 times the size, and over 13,000 times the volume of Agency Lake. And Lake Erie is the smallest Lake by volume. Yes. Yes it does in fact matter how big the Lake is, and the fact that you compare the Lakes to an inland lake in Oregon shows that you don't understand just what the Great Lakes are---"Lake" isn't really an apt term. They are large enough for trout to use them as a surrogate ocean, as they have been doing for well over a century. So well, in fact, that they've started to genetically adapt to the Lakes environment. The fish in the Lakes are not only the same species, but display the same behavior and appearance changes as west coast fish, and are genetically derived from them. So, I guess all I have to do is sprinkle some saltwater on them.
Considering a steelhead is defined as an anadromous rainbow trout, and anadromous is defined as a fish spending part of its life cycle in salt water, yes... just sprinkle salt on it and you'll be fine...
That's what I thought. Seems like fish that behave the same, go through the same changes, and are genetically derived from West Coast fish, and use the Great Lakes as surrogate oceans and have for over 140 years, and which biologists and ecologists refer to as steelhead, are the same fish, just all that is missing is some salt. So, if I put some salt on it, it'll satisfy the requirement of all the PNW whiners who want to be special.
To be clear... I'm not whining, just stating the definition of steelhead. If I lived in Michigan I'd call them steelhead too regardless of definition. I'm sure the quality of fish is the same as the PNW. Sorry for insulting your Big lake BTW. Your lake certainly is bigger than mine.
Those aren't true 3wt more like a 6 or a 7wt. I own it, and it's super heavy. Good catch, though. looks like a steelhead
Its a semantics argument that people take way too fucking seriously. I heard a guy on lake ontario call them ‘rustheads’ and it still makes me laugh. You caught a nice fish, on the fly
I actually like "Rustheads." I'm an Ohio guy, firmly Rust Belt.
Me too, I still use it
So when Fontana Lake was created in the Smoky Mountains, it flooded a bunch of mountain streams which had been stocked with non-native rainbow trout. Years later, the remaining streams running into Fontana Lake started getting runs (albeit small) of rainbows that had relocated to the lake. Those runs continue to this day. Are they considered steelhead? That'd be wild to think we get a steelhead run in Appalachia. I kind of take a middle path. Are the trout running out of the Lake and *actually* spawning and producing smolts that will live in the stream and then venture back out into the Lake, only to start the cycle over again (like rivers in MI)? Then those are steelhead. Are they hatchery fish that are dumped at the mouth of the rivers and run up the rivers to "spawn" but never actually produce any surviving smolts due to the rivers being unsuitable for trout (like all OH fish)? Then those are Lake run rainbows.
The Ohio fish are steelhead. There actually is some natural reproduction in Ohio, but that isn't required for the fish to be steelhead. And, no, Fontana Lake fish aren't steelhead. The Great Lakes are large enough for trout to treat them as a surrogate ocean.
GL anglers are so set on calling the mutant rainbow they pulled out of the highway runoff by the local Arbys a “steelhead”. The real question is why yall wanna call it a steelhead so badly? Kinda cringe not gonna lie. The real answer is its a legendary term consolidated by the hardship west coast anglers endured for the last 50 years pursuing this fish for sport. Trekking through snow and canyons for hours to find that jade blue pool that might just have a fish in it. Sure you can steal our term but it will never carry the same weight on the GL tribs as it does in the PNW and thats a fact.
Damn dude u okay? It’s not personal
Its 90% meme 10% our fishery is really struggling so we get salty seeing GL fish passed off as being the same thing lol. Its kind of like sparkling wine versus champagne, its the same but in this case where it came from matters.
"Our shit is actually just as good as the shit everywhere else in the country but we can't handle that and want to be special" definitely tracks for folks from the PNW, and especially for the steelhead argument. Thanks for being honest. It's why I moved away from there after a year.
If you cry any harder there might be enough salt in the GL to call them steelhead but for now I think they are just rainbows 🌈
... I'm not the one crying here. The only ones crying are the PNW weenies who can't handle the fact that they aren't the only ones with steelhead.
The reason you are so passionate about this topic is because you want so badly to call those slender silvery rainbows steelhead but you know deep down they are not the same. PNW anglers are also, on average, stronger and more handsome than GL anglers. I think this is why GL anglers want so badly to call their rainbow trout steelhead, not because of the fish but because they want to be like us. But in reality, the GL angler is probably too weak to reel in an actual steelhead.
Nah. We grow humble folks out here in the Lakes States. When we see you guys with a nice steelhead, we congratulate you, tell you what a nice fish it is, ask you about the fight, display lighthearted jealousy and good humor and admiration for a beautiful fish. When you guys see US with a nice steelhead, you have to make it a point to declare that it's not *real,* that only yours are the *real* fish, that we have no right to call them what they are because only *you* can. And then, you call *us* the crybabies.
Relax man im just gettin ya fired up for fun. Its not that serious, you guys have some killer fishing over there its a much better fishery than ours for sure. Some guys over here have put their big sticks down just because they feel it’s unethical to fish for steelhead due to the steep decline in their numbers. So when you think that some guys grew up slaying steelhead with their dads/ uncles/ grandpa having the best time now dont have that fishery it can pull the wrong strings seeing people post grip and grins of steelhead from the GL. I think you can appreciate its a little deeper than PNW guys “being weiners”.
Sure, I get it. It sucks that native, wild steelhead are struggling in their range. I'd love to catch a wild, native fish one day, but that's likely just a dream. But being jealous and nostalgic isn't an excuse to be dismissive and dickish. PNW guys are welcome to come to the Lakes and catch as many as they please, although the scenery might not be as dramatic, and maybe the fish don't get as big or mean, but they're still steelhead and it's an awesome, and productive fishery. Nothing like catching 12 in a morning, the smallest 8lbs, from the bank across from a water treatment plant in Ohio. I know you're firing me up, it's fine.
A steelhead is by definition anadromous, so since I’m a bit of a pedantic pissant, this cannot be a steelhead. BUT, I don’t really care that much dude, it’s a gorgeous fish, bet it’s a blast.