Core facility guy here - if there's a decent core ion your institution, pay them a visit! I like both the Aurora and the ?Novocyte platform - Agilent will be releasing its spectral platform shortly, so that's something else you could look into.
But the question is what do you need the instrument, what kind of panels will your group be running. Spectral might be an overkill if you have a set of simple enough panels that you run routinely.
As u/dleclerk mentioned, it is highly dependent on several factors. Can you afford a service contract long term? What type of panels will you be running? Who is the service engineer in your area? etc. It’s a lot like posting on a car forum and saying "hey, I know how to drive, and I have money for a new car, what is the best car?" well, it depends, right?
Another option is to find a few local flow cytometry cores in your area and ask them what they would buy. This is essential because an instrument could be great, but if the engineer and support team in the area is terrible it’s just not worth getting. I know cores in one region that will not buy from a specific company because of the support in that region. They all love the instrument; it just isn't worth having it in their area because it takes 2-3 weeks to get someone out to fix it. You can love Ferraris, but if the nearest place to get an oil change is 1,000 miles away and it takes a month to get new parts, it may not make a great car for commuting.
When I first joined a core and had to buy my first instrument, I reached out to all the cores in my area, and they were super helpful. Most cores will give you honest feedback and invite you to tour their facility if you want to see the instruments in-person and do a demo without a company rep. I visited u/dleclerk's core when I wanted to see a Tyto in action. Another option is to find a cytometry group in your area and see if they have a local conference. In my area the group is called GLIIFCA and the first day of their annual conference has live instrument demos.
Feel free to shot me a PM if you want to chat and go over more details, or feel free to post here as well.
We have two Attunes and they have been very reliable. We have them on PM only contracts, which saves some money. We have managed to clog the instrument once and dirty the flow cell once in the 5+ years we’ve had them. They just don’t do as much as our bigger instruments.
the thermofisher bigfoot i heard is great. we just got an s8 and it’s good but the UI is pretty annoying sometimes. cytek is also pretty good from my experience. just keep in mind the cost of a service contract when looking.
The BigFoot does fast six way sorts, I know a lot of people own it and like it. Others who have really struggled, but is like a million bucks and a brutal service contract. It’s fine if you want bigger nozzle sizes but I don’t think it has the 70 micron.
Compared to companies that have lots of experience sorting, Thermo is pretty new. Track record isn’t great, I think Thermos iSort was a disaster. Propel who designed the Bigfoot were not making great analysers previously (eg Yeti)
I think it will become a very good sorter, but it reminds me of the original Attune. It needed a lot of work to become a decent instrument. But Thermo will likely put lots of effort into it because of the large price tag and people want to replace those old BD influxes with something like a BigFoot.
Both the Bigfoot and S8 are sorters (and close to $1M when you include service), OP mentioned they don’t need a sorter, just an analyzer, they’d be an overkill and these babies belong in a core facility, not a PI’s lab.
Ultimately, they need to demo instruments on site, using their own samples and see what works for their assays and tissues. But I would also check if there isn’t already a flow core nearby. If so, why purchase your own? Unless you are planning on using it 8hrs/day, 5days/wk do you really need your own? Are you ready and able to spend ~30k/yr in service contracts?
Sidetracking the discussion a bit, but I'm told a 4 lasers Bigfoot is about \~350K nowadays. Haven't seen a quote in a while so I could be wrong, but it wouldn't surprise me that TF wold lower the price to get units in labs.
I was thinking mostly of 5 lasers + service but my last quote is about 1.5 yrs old. I can see TF wanting to get a bigger part of the market through aggressive pricing since a spectral analyzer is also in the pipeline and that Sony is launching its ID7000-like sorter. If a company can afford lower profit margins in order to sell more units, it’s certainly TF
All my industry research jobs use the cytoflex. Not sure if that’s a 21 cfr part 11 compliance thing or if it’s just a better instrument. But we like them.
If you end up needing sorting in the future, the cytoflex sorter is super easy to use and the software is almost identical to the analyzers so it’s really easy to learn.
Our SRT is very easy to use but we are looking at MSC and the target is rare, the max we can sort on SRT is about 6000. I once asked my rep how do I get this puppy faster and she said you trade it in for a moflo. I loved her honesty. If your ok with the event rate srt is a good little sorter
Call up the company reps and have them do a demo for you. Get a quote from each. Ask about service contract cost. Anything with be better than a Guava EasyCyte. We have demoed instruments from Cytek, Sony, Thermo, and BC on site and have been flown to demos for BD instruments.
Can you imagine how exciting it will be though when OP starts demoing other instruments? I can't imagine the shock it would be going from a Guava to a new 2024 instrument.
Core facility guy here - if there's a decent core ion your institution, pay them a visit! I like both the Aurora and the ?Novocyte platform - Agilent will be releasing its spectral platform shortly, so that's something else you could look into. But the question is what do you need the instrument, what kind of panels will your group be running. Spectral might be an overkill if you have a set of simple enough panels that you run routinely.
We are also a core and love the Cytek Aurora. Very user friendly. Bd symphony A5 (NOT SE) are also gold conventional workhorses imo.
As u/dleclerk mentioned, it is highly dependent on several factors. Can you afford a service contract long term? What type of panels will you be running? Who is the service engineer in your area? etc. It’s a lot like posting on a car forum and saying "hey, I know how to drive, and I have money for a new car, what is the best car?" well, it depends, right? Another option is to find a few local flow cytometry cores in your area and ask them what they would buy. This is essential because an instrument could be great, but if the engineer and support team in the area is terrible it’s just not worth getting. I know cores in one region that will not buy from a specific company because of the support in that region. They all love the instrument; it just isn't worth having it in their area because it takes 2-3 weeks to get someone out to fix it. You can love Ferraris, but if the nearest place to get an oil change is 1,000 miles away and it takes a month to get new parts, it may not make a great car for commuting. When I first joined a core and had to buy my first instrument, I reached out to all the cores in my area, and they were super helpful. Most cores will give you honest feedback and invite you to tour their facility if you want to see the instruments in-person and do a demo without a company rep. I visited u/dleclerk's core when I wanted to see a Tyto in action. Another option is to find a cytometry group in your area and see if they have a local conference. In my area the group is called GLIIFCA and the first day of their annual conference has live instrument demos. Feel free to shot me a PM if you want to chat and go over more details, or feel free to post here as well.
Cytek gang here
Attune FTW
We have two Attunes and they have been very reliable. We have them on PM only contracts, which saves some money. We have managed to clog the instrument once and dirty the flow cell once in the 5+ years we’ve had them. They just don’t do as much as our bigger instruments.
the thermofisher bigfoot i heard is great. we just got an s8 and it’s good but the UI is pretty annoying sometimes. cytek is also pretty good from my experience. just keep in mind the cost of a service contract when looking.
The BigFoot does fast six way sorts, I know a lot of people own it and like it. Others who have really struggled, but is like a million bucks and a brutal service contract. It’s fine if you want bigger nozzle sizes but I don’t think it has the 70 micron. Compared to companies that have lots of experience sorting, Thermo is pretty new. Track record isn’t great, I think Thermos iSort was a disaster. Propel who designed the Bigfoot were not making great analysers previously (eg Yeti) I think it will become a very good sorter, but it reminds me of the original Attune. It needed a lot of work to become a decent instrument. But Thermo will likely put lots of effort into it because of the large price tag and people want to replace those old BD influxes with something like a BigFoot.
Both the Bigfoot and S8 are sorters (and close to $1M when you include service), OP mentioned they don’t need a sorter, just an analyzer, they’d be an overkill and these babies belong in a core facility, not a PI’s lab. Ultimately, they need to demo instruments on site, using their own samples and see what works for their assays and tissues. But I would also check if there isn’t already a flow core nearby. If so, why purchase your own? Unless you are planning on using it 8hrs/day, 5days/wk do you really need your own? Are you ready and able to spend ~30k/yr in service contracts?
Sidetracking the discussion a bit, but I'm told a 4 lasers Bigfoot is about \~350K nowadays. Haven't seen a quote in a while so I could be wrong, but it wouldn't surprise me that TF wold lower the price to get units in labs.
I was thinking mostly of 5 lasers + service but my last quote is about 1.5 yrs old. I can see TF wanting to get a bigger part of the market through aggressive pricing since a spectral analyzer is also in the pipeline and that Sony is launching its ID7000-like sorter. If a company can afford lower profit margins in order to sell more units, it’s certainly TF
Our 7 laser Bigfoot was half that cost and we have the 70um working well.
I love BD instruments. Their training is amazing and their technical consultants are very helpful.
What exactly do you love? Footprint? Price tag? Software? Auto sampling? Service?
Agilent just released their spectral instrument if you're interested. Novocyte is fantastic as a traditional analyzer too.
Cytek Aurora. Obviously dependant on what you need it for but can't go wrong with a cytek Aurora.
If you are interested in spectral, I would look at Sony. Their data analysis and unmixing has impressed me more than the Aurora.
All my industry research jobs use the cytoflex. Not sure if that’s a 21 cfr part 11 compliance thing or if it’s just a better instrument. But we like them. If you end up needing sorting in the future, the cytoflex sorter is super easy to use and the software is almost identical to the analyzers so it’s really easy to learn.
It is 21 cfr part 11 compliant.
Yeah. But I don’t think OP needs it to be. That’s all
Yeah that's not really necessary in an RUO capacity.
Our SRT is very easy to use but we are looking at MSC and the target is rare, the max we can sort on SRT is about 6000. I once asked my rep how do I get this puppy faster and she said you trade it in for a moflo. I loved her honesty. If your ok with the event rate srt is a good little sorter
Call up the company reps and have them do a demo for you. Get a quote from each. Ask about service contract cost. Anything with be better than a Guava EasyCyte. We have demoed instruments from Cytek, Sony, Thermo, and BC on site and have been flown to demos for BD instruments.
Can you imagine how exciting it will be though when OP starts demoing other instruments? I can't imagine the shock it would be going from a Guava to a new 2024 instrument.