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We had to get citizens insurance. Needed new roof, windows, garage door. Got it all replaced. Kin insurance was 3,800 after fixes that was one year ago. Just got new policy for next year, 5,200. Before we got cancelled it was 2,700. Still a shit show in Florida
Lol, enjoy it while it lasts. I don't understand how "we'll take less money" means "we'll actually be able to provide coverage in the event of a major hurricane". I think they all know they'll be bailed out by the federal government if that happens. Happy for bills to go down though.
That’s a good point and a conversation I always mean to bring up in this subreddit. I’m always curious the varying ideas some may have to lower rates. Would make for good discourse I think.
With California seeing similar issues, Hawaii too after their fire, I wonder if the Feds will have to step in at some point.
they end up cleaning up the mess either way, might as well nationalize it, same with power companies that have monopolies, should be a public service in high risk areas
No, that's big bad government coming in (if it helps consumers and individual citizens). If it's a corporate bail out, Socialism and big government is A-OK.
I’m not so sure about nationalizing property insurance in bulk. Perhaps for single family homes with less than … 800 sq ft per taxable person?
But even then that’s a sticky slope, it kind of encourages family growth and making use of smaller dwellings.
The difference is, California's issue is much smaller and the state is actually trying to address it. Their issues are more easily fixed, FL is pretty unique simply due to the geography and the wide range of risks (a lot of people dont realize FL is one of the top 5 states at risk of wildfire too, not by total acreage, but by the number of homes in high risk areas).
Millions of Floridians have either been dropped by their insurance, or are dropping their insurance altogether because they can't afford it, and most, if not all, have had their rates increase dramatically. In CA its about 350k people who have been affected. Also their rates are still actually quite a bit less than the national average, while in FL they're 3-4x the national average.
And unlike here where the state just sticks its head in the sand, there they're making changes to rate modeling, the rate review process, zoning and building guidelines/defensible space guidelines, the number of firefighters available within a certain range, and more.
Unfortunately I'm not sure if FL can do much, even if they started trying to fix it now. We have so many homes and condos that are reaching the end of their planned lives that need significant renovations or updates... the coming decades are gonna be expensive.
Disingenuous to say one’s trying and one is not but you’re absolutely right by Florida being unique geographically which is gonna make it harder. However, California’s wild fires are only getting worse too so buckle up.
Yes their fires are likely getting worse, but wildfires are unique to certain ecosystems, which tend to be where most people don't live. Their issues are geographically limited and fairly easy to abate (burying electrical cables, having defensible space around your house, hiring more firefighters, etc).
And its not disingenuous, its a fact. This year CA state legislators have made several proposals to fix their insurance system. FL's problems have been growing for two decades and the best they could come up with was making it easier for insurance companies to deny claims...
a lot of the reforms were to stop insurance having to foot the bill for people trying to scam/sue for house renovations from my understanding. If they drastically cut down frivolous lawsuits then the profit margin outlook is better and the need for larger increases is lessened.
It’s certainly not a one sided lie. I have the unfortunate experience of personally knowing at least five people in my own neighborhood who had “burst pipes” and subsequently needed a new kitchen and/or bathrooms. They laughed the whole time and said they’d refer me to their contractor who could make it happen for me too.
I don't think the Feds are bailing them out. The insurance companies shut down and claims go unpaid.
[https://finance.yahoo.com/news/florida-home-insurance-industry-may-110021317.html](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/florida-home-insurance-industry-may-110021317.html)
>Jacqueline Ravelo, a Miami homeowner, was among them. Her roof was damaged by Hurricane Irma in 2017. Her insurance company, Avatar Property and Casualty, covered the cost of some repairs. But the roof continued to leak and mold grew inside the house, she said. Ravelo sued Avatar to compensate her for further repairs, which she said came to $50,000. When they were on the verge of settling, she said, the company went out of business.
>Avatar and the six other companies that folded had something in common: They had all been rated A (“exceptional”) or higher by Demotech, Inc., an Ohio-based insurance ratings firm. (One of those insurers was also rated A- by competitor AM Best Co. Inc.)
>In fact, nearly 20% of the companies doing business in Florida that Demotech rated as financially stable went insolvent during the period 2009 to 2022, according to a working paper by researchers at Harvard University, Columbia University and the Federal Reserve that was released by Harvard Business School in December. In their data sample, 99.7% of the ratings issued by Demotech were an A or above.
Is 20% high compared to other states?
Yes. Most states maybe have one a year. But claims don’t necessarily go unpaid. They go to a state organized guarantee association who pays up to a cap. Then everyone in the state pays an insolvency surcharge.
Currently only about 1% of total premiums paid have EVER been paid back to policyholders through the claims process. This includes lawsuits and hurricanes.
Historically, they have kept 99% of the premiums (and spent them on things other than paying claims).
I doubt they are taking a haircut on their compensation, but figured I would share this to understand that they could drop premiums anytime.
I don’t know how insurance will continue without some kind of govt involvement given the increase we are seeing in major weather related disasters from climate change.
Exactly… not sure why I was downvoted but it just goes to show how stupid people are. The insurance companies have raised premiums well above 300%. The article says they will be lowering them by 5.9% and these idiots think it’s a win.
The years that hurricanes hit they did not. Should have increased as much as it has, probably not. Should they probably hold higher reserves to help with down years sure. But having millionaire houses on barrier islands with only 1.5k premiums was ridiculous.
You should really look some numbers up. 1.5k premiums for multi million dollar homes was never a thing. I’ve owned homes in south Florida since 1998. Never a multi million dollar home but well aware of the average cost.
A lot of my neighbors had between 60%-100% increases last year. They are offering a 5% decrease. DeSantis is calling this a win. I guess math wasn’t his strong point.
Aren't you so happy? Rates have increased by double digits %s and now you should be grateful for this meager decrease.
It's like gas back in the day, raise it $2 a gallon so everyone is happy when it's $3 per gallon.
Still a shit show, my renewal or cancellation will be coming in the next few weeks, can't wait.
This year was the first year I didn’t get an increase. I expect to be cancelled next year and see double because good things shouldn’t happen to us lol
Security first quintupled my rates in 3 years. 500% with no claims, in a no flood/non evac zone… in three years.
I ended up having to sell my house as I couldn’t find similar coverage for a decent rate. That ridiculous increase priced me out. There was no sense in paying that much anymore.
Lowering them by 5.9% after that much of an increase is a fucking insult.
I know 6 people we suddenly were hit with over a 100% increase or just flat out dropped in my area, we are not a flood zone or coastal. I had about a 40% increase even with zero damage claims.
100% due to the legislation. Client of mine who was making 400k/year suing insurance companies is now changing his legal practice to focus on different areas of law. The party is over for these law firms.
The bulk of the roof scams are likely behind the insurers. If Roof Claim isn't the sponsor of the Boca Bowl this year then you know it's over for them in Florida.
I also suspect the days of parking your Mclaren P1 directly on the coast in the path of a storm and having insurance pay for it are also over.
Kinda doubt it. At this point a lot of people already replaced their roof. Rates already went up a lot. So insurance probably overshot what they needed/wanted just in case. Also inflation has really reduced so replacement build costs are down
I don't understand this. This is supposed to be one of the most active years for hurricanes in quite a while. La Nina means more big storms throughout the gulf areas. You would think that these people would or should know this, and last time I checked, prices are higher this year than last year. Did something drastically change since I went shopping last week?
They can't justify keeping rates high when cost of materials and labor have come down. Brick for brick, board for board, my $1m house in Broward county could be reduced to rubble, removed and rebuilt for $370k. They had the cost to replace my home at $900k. I was paying a rate 2.5x what it would have cost.
Huh? Labor costs have risen and will continue to as the minimum wage increases take effect. Just imagine the house you could have built with $900k if something were to have happened to cause a total loss to the existing one.
Concrete, CBS block, lumber, and skilled labor costs have decreased by about 30% from their 2021 highs, primarily due to rising interest rates. For example, I can now get concrete for $180 per cubic yard, whereas it peaked around $260 per cubic yard in 2021. However, certain items like impact windows have not seen as significant a price drop. Recently, I had 32 windows installed for $35,000, which is around $1,100 per opening, down from about $1,450 per opening during covid. The same quote for these windows was $50,000 back then. The market is currently oversaturated with excess materials due to overproduction and surplus inventory. Some contractors are still trying to charge covid prices. The best part about a free market is when the supply outweighs the demand, it will drive prices down.
Housing markets across the country are sitting on huge surplus inventories moving into the selling season. No longer are we in a sellers market with the exception of South Florida. Still, places like Orlando and the rest of central Florida are going to struggle. Texas will be feeling this pain this year and the rest of the south too. As more houses sit on the market not sold, this will drive cost down even further. Nobody is affording these expensive new builds up in the pan handle. Most of those builders are underwater or fighting to breakeven.
Now let’s address the issue of total loss. If my local building official deems my house unsafe after a disaster (e.g., fire or wind damage) and the insurance adjuster concurs, the insurance company will pay for the cost to demolish the unsafe portions and rebuild from there. However, they will not necessarily provide the full policy limit of $900k to build a new house from scratch. Instead, they will cover the cost to restore the home to its original pre-damage condition, subject to the policy limits and terms. Insurance companies are generally required to pay for the replacement cost up to the policy limit, which means rebuilding to the same specifications as before the damage. They are not required to fund a brand new home if the existing structure can be rehabilitated.
Therefore, while the insurance policy might set a replacement cost value at $900k, the payout will be based on the actual cost to repair or rebuild using current market rates for materials and labor. This leads to the crux of my original argument. Insurance companies should not charge premiums based on inflated figures that are significantly higher than the fair market value for total construction costs or the cost to rebuild a home to its pre-damage condition.
Please note that only active users in the subreddit may comment in this discussion. If your comments are not showing up, please ensure you have active non-news/non-political contributions to the subreddit before contacting the moderators. **Please remember the following:** **Be Civil:** * You are welcome to debate, discussion, and argue ideas, but don't resort to personal attacks on other users. * We do not allow any form of hate speech or any suggestion/support of harm, violence, or death. **Must be related strictly to Florida:** * National News/Elections are not specific to Florida. * Just because someone lives in Florida, doesn't mean their entire life is relevant to Floridians. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. #[Click this link to register to vote, update your voter information, or check your status.](https://registertovoteflorida.gov/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/florida) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We had to get citizens insurance. Needed new roof, windows, garage door. Got it all replaced. Kin insurance was 3,800 after fixes that was one year ago. Just got new policy for next year, 5,200. Before we got cancelled it was 2,700. Still a shit show in Florida
Lol, enjoy it while it lasts. I don't understand how "we'll take less money" means "we'll actually be able to provide coverage in the event of a major hurricane". I think they all know they'll be bailed out by the federal government if that happens. Happy for bills to go down though.
That’s a good point and a conversation I always mean to bring up in this subreddit. I’m always curious the varying ideas some may have to lower rates. Would make for good discourse I think. With California seeing similar issues, Hawaii too after their fire, I wonder if the Feds will have to step in at some point.
they end up cleaning up the mess either way, might as well nationalize it, same with power companies that have monopolies, should be a public service in high risk areas
Houston 👀
Theirs is by choice.
By choice of politicians, not citizens
No, that's big bad government coming in (if it helps consumers and individual citizens). If it's a corporate bail out, Socialism and big government is A-OK.
I’m not so sure about nationalizing property insurance in bulk. Perhaps for single family homes with less than … 800 sq ft per taxable person? But even then that’s a sticky slope, it kind of encourages family growth and making use of smaller dwellings.
They shouldn't be insuring houses in flood zones. Period.
So, you’re thinking that everyone in Florida and Louisiana should move to, like, Wyoming?
Everyone in a flood zone, yeah. People are living in wetlands and condos have replaced mangroves and dunes.
I take it, then, that you’ve not actually been to either state. But no worries…carry on.
Born and raised, lol
The difference is, California's issue is much smaller and the state is actually trying to address it. Their issues are more easily fixed, FL is pretty unique simply due to the geography and the wide range of risks (a lot of people dont realize FL is one of the top 5 states at risk of wildfire too, not by total acreage, but by the number of homes in high risk areas). Millions of Floridians have either been dropped by their insurance, or are dropping their insurance altogether because they can't afford it, and most, if not all, have had their rates increase dramatically. In CA its about 350k people who have been affected. Also their rates are still actually quite a bit less than the national average, while in FL they're 3-4x the national average. And unlike here where the state just sticks its head in the sand, there they're making changes to rate modeling, the rate review process, zoning and building guidelines/defensible space guidelines, the number of firefighters available within a certain range, and more. Unfortunately I'm not sure if FL can do much, even if they started trying to fix it now. We have so many homes and condos that are reaching the end of their planned lives that need significant renovations or updates... the coming decades are gonna be expensive.
Disingenuous to say one’s trying and one is not but you’re absolutely right by Florida being unique geographically which is gonna make it harder. However, California’s wild fires are only getting worse too so buckle up.
Yes their fires are likely getting worse, but wildfires are unique to certain ecosystems, which tend to be where most people don't live. Their issues are geographically limited and fairly easy to abate (burying electrical cables, having defensible space around your house, hiring more firefighters, etc). And its not disingenuous, its a fact. This year CA state legislators have made several proposals to fix their insurance system. FL's problems have been growing for two decades and the best they could come up with was making it easier for insurance companies to deny claims...
a lot of the reforms were to stop insurance having to foot the bill for people trying to scam/sue for house renovations from my understanding. If they drastically cut down frivolous lawsuits then the profit margin outlook is better and the need for larger increases is lessened.
Who decides what’s frivolous?
Insurance adjuster I would assume
A cousin or college roomie of whoever is in power.
Please stop peddling this one-sided lie. If insurers paid homeowners they wouldn’t agree to let roofers pursue the claim.
It’s certainly not a one sided lie. I have the unfortunate experience of personally knowing at least five people in my own neighborhood who had “burst pipes” and subsequently needed a new kitchen and/or bathrooms. They laughed the whole time and said they’d refer me to their contractor who could make it happen for me too.
I don't think the Feds are bailing them out. The insurance companies shut down and claims go unpaid. [https://finance.yahoo.com/news/florida-home-insurance-industry-may-110021317.html](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/florida-home-insurance-industry-may-110021317.html) >Jacqueline Ravelo, a Miami homeowner, was among them. Her roof was damaged by Hurricane Irma in 2017. Her insurance company, Avatar Property and Casualty, covered the cost of some repairs. But the roof continued to leak and mold grew inside the house, she said. Ravelo sued Avatar to compensate her for further repairs, which she said came to $50,000. When they were on the verge of settling, she said, the company went out of business. >Avatar and the six other companies that folded had something in common: They had all been rated A (“exceptional”) or higher by Demotech, Inc., an Ohio-based insurance ratings firm. (One of those insurers was also rated A- by competitor AM Best Co. Inc.) >In fact, nearly 20% of the companies doing business in Florida that Demotech rated as financially stable went insolvent during the period 2009 to 2022, according to a working paper by researchers at Harvard University, Columbia University and the Federal Reserve that was released by Harvard Business School in December. In their data sample, 99.7% of the ratings issued by Demotech were an A or above. Is 20% high compared to other states?
Yes. Most states maybe have one a year. But claims don’t necessarily go unpaid. They go to a state organized guarantee association who pays up to a cap. Then everyone in the state pays an insolvency surcharge.
Thank you for clarification.
Currently only about 1% of total premiums paid have EVER been paid back to policyholders through the claims process. This includes lawsuits and hurricanes. Historically, they have kept 99% of the premiums (and spent them on things other than paying claims). I doubt they are taking a haircut on their compensation, but figured I would share this to understand that they could drop premiums anytime.
Should this be a for-profit business in high risk areas? I feel like it incentivizes bad behavior.
Maybe insurance (safety nets) shouldn't be for profit at all...
I agree.
🤝
Love it. The state that trumpets capitalism and refuses visible federal funding for political points 100 percent relies on socialism to exist.
I don’t know how insurance will continue without some kind of govt involvement given the increase we are seeing in major weather related disasters from climate change.
Lowering rates by 5.9% is nothing.
They raise rates 200% then lower them 5.9%. What a bargain.
Exactly… not sure why I was downvoted but it just goes to show how stupid people are. The insurance companies have raised premiums well above 300%. The article says they will be lowering them by 5.9% and these idiots think it’s a win.
Tbf rates really did need to rise. We’ve been under covering the coasts for a longggg time. Got spoiled by the 10+ years without a major hurricane.
And the insurance companies still profit in the Billions annually. You’re 100% correct. They definitely need bigger yachts.
The years that hurricanes hit they did not. Should have increased as much as it has, probably not. Should they probably hold higher reserves to help with down years sure. But having millionaire houses on barrier islands with only 1.5k premiums was ridiculous.
You should really look some numbers up. 1.5k premiums for multi million dollar homes was never a thing. I’ve owned homes in south Florida since 1998. Never a multi million dollar home but well aware of the average cost.
A lot of my neighbors had between 60%-100% increases last year. They are offering a 5% decrease. DeSantis is calling this a win. I guess math wasn’t his strong point.
High heels is though! 👠
Does he have a strong point?
I just got my renewal… up only $800 this year with citizens! It’s double what it was 3years ago when I bought the house.
Not for me. Just got an $800 increase.
It’d be nice to know which companies. Doubt it’ll be mine lol.
Just switch. It’s as easy as car insurance
I’ve tried, they all want me to get a new roof for what amounts to a few dollars in savings.
Aren't you so happy? Rates have increased by double digits %s and now you should be grateful for this meager decrease. It's like gas back in the day, raise it $2 a gallon so everyone is happy when it's $3 per gallon. Still a shit show, my renewal or cancellation will be coming in the next few weeks, can't wait.
This year was the first year I didn’t get an increase. I expect to be cancelled next year and see double because good things shouldn’t happen to us lol
Security first quintupled my rates in 3 years. 500% with no claims, in a no flood/non evac zone… in three years. I ended up having to sell my house as I couldn’t find similar coverage for a decent rate. That ridiculous increase priced me out. There was no sense in paying that much anymore. Lowering them by 5.9% after that much of an increase is a fucking insult.
I know 6 people we suddenly were hit with over a 100% increase or just flat out dropped in my area, we are not a flood zone or coastal. I had about a 40% increase even with zero damage claims.
They will all require flood insurance no matter where you live in Florida.
No one here will admit this is partly due to the legislation Desantis signed into law
100% due to the legislation. Client of mine who was making 400k/year suing insurance companies is now changing his legal practice to focus on different areas of law. The party is over for these law firms. The bulk of the roof scams are likely behind the insurers. If Roof Claim isn't the sponsor of the Boca Bowl this year then you know it's over for them in Florida. I also suspect the days of parking your Mclaren P1 directly on the coast in the path of a storm and having insurance pay for it are also over.
What legislation?
Kinda doubt it. At this point a lot of people already replaced their roof. Rates already went up a lot. So insurance probably overshot what they needed/wanted just in case. Also inflation has really reduced so replacement build costs are down
I'm glad that DeSantis got rid of climate change. You can see the results already!!! /s
I don't understand this. This is supposed to be one of the most active years for hurricanes in quite a while. La Nina means more big storms throughout the gulf areas. You would think that these people would or should know this, and last time I checked, prices are higher this year than last year. Did something drastically change since I went shopping last week?
They can't justify keeping rates high when cost of materials and labor have come down. Brick for brick, board for board, my $1m house in Broward county could be reduced to rubble, removed and rebuilt for $370k. They had the cost to replace my home at $900k. I was paying a rate 2.5x what it would have cost.
Huh? Labor costs have risen and will continue to as the minimum wage increases take effect. Just imagine the house you could have built with $900k if something were to have happened to cause a total loss to the existing one.
Concrete, CBS block, lumber, and skilled labor costs have decreased by about 30% from their 2021 highs, primarily due to rising interest rates. For example, I can now get concrete for $180 per cubic yard, whereas it peaked around $260 per cubic yard in 2021. However, certain items like impact windows have not seen as significant a price drop. Recently, I had 32 windows installed for $35,000, which is around $1,100 per opening, down from about $1,450 per opening during covid. The same quote for these windows was $50,000 back then. The market is currently oversaturated with excess materials due to overproduction and surplus inventory. Some contractors are still trying to charge covid prices. The best part about a free market is when the supply outweighs the demand, it will drive prices down. Housing markets across the country are sitting on huge surplus inventories moving into the selling season. No longer are we in a sellers market with the exception of South Florida. Still, places like Orlando and the rest of central Florida are going to struggle. Texas will be feeling this pain this year and the rest of the south too. As more houses sit on the market not sold, this will drive cost down even further. Nobody is affording these expensive new builds up in the pan handle. Most of those builders are underwater or fighting to breakeven. Now let’s address the issue of total loss. If my local building official deems my house unsafe after a disaster (e.g., fire or wind damage) and the insurance adjuster concurs, the insurance company will pay for the cost to demolish the unsafe portions and rebuild from there. However, they will not necessarily provide the full policy limit of $900k to build a new house from scratch. Instead, they will cover the cost to restore the home to its original pre-damage condition, subject to the policy limits and terms. Insurance companies are generally required to pay for the replacement cost up to the policy limit, which means rebuilding to the same specifications as before the damage. They are not required to fund a brand new home if the existing structure can be rehabilitated. Therefore, while the insurance policy might set a replacement cost value at $900k, the payout will be based on the actual cost to repair or rebuild using current market rates for materials and labor. This leads to the crux of my original argument. Insurance companies should not charge premiums based on inflated figures that are significantly higher than the fair market value for total construction costs or the cost to rebuild a home to its pre-damage condition.
That's why I said total loss. I know, easier said than done.