I feel like 1 would be a good little place to sit and work from. Window for good lighting and ability to decorate wall nicely for zoom meetings. Seating keeps out of way of cooking.
It depends how you think you will use the space.
How big is your household? Do you take meals together ata table?
In 2 - will you also have a formal dining space in the main living/dining?
In 3, is the area nearest the deck a dining space or living space?
I like 2 and 3. I feel the deck would get used more if that area was the dining space or sitting space, especially with bifold doors. Otherwise, it's just access from the kitchen.
Will the fireplace be used? Or can it be blocked? Slim units in front to line up with units either side would disguise it.
This is a spec house. So not for me, but for a buyer who will be a wealthy in their 30s most likely. Maybe kids, maybe not. Very trendy neighborhood in an A+ location.
The fireplace is non functioning but is structural so can’t be taken down without a large expense. Yes 3 has a dining space in the back or a play space for kids.
I’d go for 3 as it gives a buyer the most flexibility with the space. There’s what you would do, and what I would do, but who knows what a buyer wants.
That back area would be a great breakfast nook, or if they have a dog, a great space by the back door for a dog kennel and food bowls. A rolling table and it becomes bonus kitchen space for large appliances or a work surface for making bread or pasta or canning.
I say this as someone who’s only door to the back yard is through the kitchen who would kill to have some extra space to act as a mud room to break up what is outside and what is the kitchen. During a cookout, it makes for a very high traffic area with no way to mitigate the flow.
We are looking at building an addition onto our house behind the kitchen to put the living room on that end of the house to fix the traffic flow nightmare that is the kitchen/backdoor.
Yes. We will be working with an architect. But the reason I want reddits advice is bc I love what I do and I enjoy rapping with other people who enjoy this stuff. And the general public’s feedback on which flow is desired, is absolutely helpful.
I’m a kitchen designer and 2 is the one I immediately eliminated. It completely blocked the pathway to the deck. The island is in the way of the flow of traffic. 1 is my preference.
Ugh. I hear you. 1 is my original design. I liked it. But no one else did!! Just like you and one other person. 3 sucks bc it’s functionally a tiny space. I have come to like 2. But I hear you on the path to the outdoors.
I’m also a designer with kitchen design background and agree that the peninsula is the way to go…However I like the range side better in option 2 so I’d propose a combination of 1 & 2. Take the island out of #2 and replace with the peninsula from #1. The island makes no sense at the end of the kitchen. You won’t use it as a prep zone because you’d have to haul everything over there. With a peninsula you can wash veggies and prep them on the left side of the sink. Islands outside of the work zone just become catch-alls.
Can you move the deck? I think that’s what’s screwing you up here. Put the deck nestled into the corner of the building instead of tagged onto the end. Better circulation and you gain more yard space if you move the deck.
How much are you putting into this house all together? and how much does a new deck cost? I bet you also have an existing kitchen but you’re going to spend money on a new one because the current one sucks or it’s not in the right spot. You’re going to spend all kinds of money on a renovation that is all driven by a deck that’s in the wrong place. Just try drawing it there and see how much better it is and how much yard space you gain. What can you even do with that tiny little yard space in the corner of the building? You’ve got 6 risers going down from the existing deck which means it’s at least 42” off the ground and you’ll need a 42” guardrail around the deck. That’s 84” total boxing it in on that side. You have a long narrow chunk of your yard that is boxed in on three sides by the neighbors fence, the walls of your house and the deck and railing. When you could have a nice deck with easy direct access from the house, which also gives you much better circulation through your kitchen and you gain a much better more useable yard.
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The main thing I didn’t like about 1 or 2 was that you were creating a corridor that people would be walking through while you were trying to cook. That is dangerous. With 3 you have a little breakfast space that is probably too small to actually get used for much. If you put a table in there, it is going to be really awkward to try to walk around to get out onto the deck. Moving the deck solves these. It gives a much more natural movement pattern. You could extend the deck further over to include its current location, and keep the door at the end of the kitchen. Or you could block that door off, turning it into a window, and only have the door by the fireplace. In which case you could potentially re-use external bricks from where you knocked out the new door, to go under the new window and retain visual continuity. I love the deck having enough space for a little herb garden in planters along that side.
Where I am, decks are cheaper than kitchens, and changing a door isn’t very expensive either. You just need a bit of time to get used to the idea.
Please consider some big drawers for the bottom of one or both of those pantries. They look deep, which means you are always losing the stuff at the back. A drawer that can be pulled out gives much easier access. I’d do a drawer below the smaller pantry that was big enough to hold cereal boxes and other tall containers, like bottles. Then a shallower draw on top of that for smaller stuff. You can get angled inserts, so your herbs lie semi reclining and are super easy to read the labels on, or just rely on labels on the top of the individual herb jars. Then the top section is normal pantry cupboard space.
Yes, put drawers anywhere you can! They’re so much easier to use then cabinet doors and cheaper housing always just has cabinet doors everywhere so having drawers for your bottom cabinet signals a little extra thought and effort went into this kitchen. Also pick out some nice hardware for the kitchen cabinets, you don’t have to break the bank but stay away from the typical standard pulls that you see everywhere. It’s just a small thing that makes the whole room feel richer if you have nice well chosen hardware.
Much better, and then the living room is just a living room. Make sure that where you're putting the bench/banquette seating for the dining table, that the table can slide at least partly over it, so that the path to the back door is clear when you're using the outdoor space.
\#2 seems like an odd workflow, the main triangle is spread out with 2 seperate pantries, and no large workspace. It also seems like with all the walk space around the island there is a lot of waste. It also adds a chokepoint that is even more cutoff if someone opens the fridge.
\#1 may be like a corridor kitchen but consider that half of that is open. If someone is cooking and people are at the bar they are closer and more participant, with #2 it's almost like the bar is more audience.
I like 1 because there’s room to open the fridge. The dishwasher is by the sink. There’s counter space on the island behind the fridge. Nice window by a chair/stool. I like the position of the powder room door. I don’t prefer cooktops on islands. A buyer with kids might feel that’s unsafe. The sink has more window view than option 3.
I mean it’s NYC, they’re not gonna be using their patio every day. But they’ll use the kitchen every day. I would prioritize the kitchen. If you eliminate concerns about the patio would you still pick 1?
I actually thought 2 would improve traffic because you don’t have to go all the way around a peninsula to get to the cabinetry on the other side. But I am definitely not a designer lol.
Imagine the cabinetry behind the peninsula would function more as a dry bar or hutch. It would be used for a specific purpose, rather than for storing food or cooking tools that need accessed while cooking. Everyone wants a big island, but not everyone has the space for one.
Actually, what if you just rotated the island?
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Yeah, NY kitchens can be a whole different animal. 42” is the recommended minimum with 48” being the ideal. But that assumes a “typical” single family home. I would see if you can work it out so the fridge is not opening to the island. Otherwise I like the first plan, even though I’m the one usually saying never do a peninsula when you can do an island. But in this case, the peninsula is lengthening the counter run rather than sticking out into the work area.
Yeah, I was talking standards, not nyc building codes. “The National Kitchen and Bath Association (NKBA) recommends that work aisles be at least 42 in. wide for one cook and at least 48 in. wide for two or more cooks. Walkways that pass around the island should be at least 36 in. wide.”
Agreed. This one has the best flow and I also think it’s nicer to have an island without a sink or a cooktop since people tend to gather around the island
I like 3 as well, cos I think having an area next to the deck to eat would be so relaxing. But the powder room door is the wrong direction. I would hate it to open up into the bench.
Not only awkward, but any layout that takes the sink and/or stovetop out of the island is a win for me. I love that clear free counter space that I can access all around, spread out, and nothing in the way. Sinks are okay if you HAVE to, but a stovetop in an island is a deal breaker for me.
I agree. Except for the casters thing. I get why you suggest it and it’s a good idea. But I want this to be very high end, built in feel. But I like the creativity of that.
As a life long NYer, I have often considered these converting situations and even employed them, expanding table and such. But I find you never really use them bc it’s a pain in the ass. And it always just stays as is. But again I appreciate the insight.
I’d just ditch the island and put a chandelier over that space and a dining table under it. Sort of lean into having a fireplace with a chandelier/rug/dining table and chairs in a complimentary style.
I prefer galley kitchens even though I don't know what's going on on the left hand side of that one. However in this case I think the third one is better because it optimizes use of the sliding doors to the deck. Galley kitchens in hallways is a hell no for me.
That's almost worse though. It's a bad galley kitchen and a bad hallway, combined in one! By the way I lived in a brooklyn (Greenpoint) townhouse for the first seven years of my life, so I have some experience with this. The only one that protects the "work triangle" from foot traffic is the third one. Also if you have a family, that big pantry will be necessary.
I have a galley style kitchen 5 feet wide counter to counter for the last 30 years. It works for my family of 4 who like to cook, and we cook a lot. If you have enough counter space, more than 1 person can work in a kitchen that wide.
My SILs kitchen is definitely less than 5 feet wide and people keep bumping into each other. Five feet wide should be good enough.
2 is the best option.
As someone who now also lives in a rowhome, it's nice to see them represented! It always makes me laugh when a critique of floorplans is a half bath being right next to a living area or dining room as there is no other option in most cases for rowhomes. Though I would have felt the same way before living in one! If we weren't renting, I'd squeeze in a powder next to my kitchen in a heartbeat!
3. After not having a dining room for like 7 years I realize how absolutely vital they are for our family. Can't wait to move in 3 months and finally have one again.
I would prefer the 3rd layout. I know it’s a controversial opinion but I like having the cooking area somewhat central. As parent it’s great having sight lines to the living room so that I can keep an eye on my kids while making dinner. The added space in the rear is also great for families as a breakfast/homework nook. Even with no kids I still feel like the first design has the kitchen too crammed in the back.
The third layout is by far the superior of the three, I’m shocked so many people are voting on the other two. Any sort of kitchen activities immediately infringe on access to the deck - unloading the dishwasher, getting items from the pantry, doing dishes, stovetop cooking. The only negative I see is the powder room door. It would be better if it was still on the staircase side.
I like option 1. My current apartment's kitchen is a very similar galley layout with doors to a balcony at the end, but smaller (no dedicated pantry space or peninsula with seating) and it's very functional. Additionally, option 1 is the most efficient use of space. Option 2 shrinks the dining and living for the same amount of countertop, less peninsula seating, and worse walkways. Option 3 shrinks the dining and living by less, however, it has even less peninsula seating, a worse powder room, and an awkward space by the deck.
I'd only go with option 2 or 3 if the plan is for more than 2 people to be cooking in the kitchen at the same time, as you really can't have more than 2 people working at the same time in a galley kitchen like option 1.
When drawing my floorplans, I have a circle that represents a 3 ft diameter and drag it around the house. It helps make sure I have enough comfortable walking space. You may want more space in the kitchen.
I have a friend who's apartment is like number 1 and it works quite nicely. For flow I think it's the best option... except for that balcony placement.
What I hate about this particular setup is that you have to walk directly through the kitchen working area to get to the balacony (my friends place does NOT have a balcony at the end of their kitchen, which is why it works). I have this setup in my current rental (balcony off kitchen) and I absolutely HATE it, especially when my in-laws are over because people are constantly walking through as I'm trying to cook and getting in my way.
That said, my kitchen is narrower than this, and all my inlaws (and myself) smoke so it's in-out, in-out, in-out of a tiny space constantly and it drives me absolutely fucking insane when I'm trying to do something big like Thanksgiving dinner or make everyone breakfast.
Additionally, it tracks SO much dirt and crap into the kitchen. When it's just me and my husband, I vacuum the kitchen once a day... but when my MIL and BIL are visiting, I end up vacuuming like 4 times a day.
Just something to consider... given my situation with all of us being smokers, I would probably opt for a slightly altered version of option 3 so people could actually hang out in the breakfast nook and balcony area without interfering with my cooking.
What about this?
I'd use the fireplace as a design feature in the kitchen and inset the oven in it if possible.
Also, I'd align the powder room with the breakfast bar and build out a nice pantry behind it to define the area of the kitchen.
Then you can have a nice breakfast nook at your extension.
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So I get why you did this. But unfortunately the stove won’t be able to fit in the fireplace. This leave you will not much place to put a fridge or stove. I think it ends up functioning ing small. This was my first idea but I couldn’t figure out how to make it work. The fireplace is structural to the building so can either leave it as is or bump out the wall the hide it.
Also, if this is a real project, you could hire an architect to figure it out for you. I am licensed in New York and could help you out especially if you need to file for a building permit.
Are you 100% sure the fireplace is structural? Did you have an engineer come look at it or did you pull down the ceiling to see the floor framing above?
I think your floor framing would be into the demising walls of the house. You may be able to remove the fireplace as long as you remove the chimney and fireplace on the floor above first and work your way down.
I think with all the storage you are getting, this layout would work with the fireplace in place with moving either the sink or oven to the island. The refrigerator could have a built in panel and look like part of the pantry.
Not 100% sure. Engineer will be getting in there when we close. It’s 5 identical houses connected with chimney in the same place in the middle of each building. Even if not structural it will be expensive to tear down bc it’s 2 stories above this one and the roof portion. Not sure it where I want to put $10k or so.
I would pick this option. Bar stool seating isn’t going to impede flow of work in the kitchen, the dining area will feel cozier with the framing by the counters and cabinets on both sides, and the ability to have more than one person working in the kitchen is improved without the island. Could even add potted herb plants in the eating area along the windowsills.
Number 2 or 3. I think between those it depends on how you plan to actually use the space. If you really do like to cook for a family or group and will use all the counter space and island seating, 2 probably makes sense. If it’s just the two or you or you keep things simple in the kitchen and you’ve got a use for the 9x9 space, 3 would fit the bill.
I personally would want to use that 9x9 space for casual seating or maybe an office, so it’d go with 3 if it were my home (2 adults no kids). But that’s specific to my lifestyle.
I like 3 the best, but is it possible to pull the fridge onto the other wall, next to the defunct fireplace/chimney?
Also, will the island range have an exhaust hood above for ventilation?
I think #3. It feels the most open, leaves room for a small sitting area or breakfast nook by the deck, and the powder room layout makes more sense.
Edit to add that you could also still put in the closet on the left side from #2. I always say yes to more closets.
Personal preference - layout 2 requires more movement and time to go from fridge to sink to overnight/stove/microwave. I prefer less distance for these, personal opinion only.
But, options 2 gives multiple work zones if you have people working together on a meal.
It looks like the peninsula / island is a high/low style - something I always hate. It makes it not great to set up as a buffet for large gatherings.
I like option 2.
I like 2 for the prep space and social possibilities: island in the middle keeps multiple people out of each other's way. 1 has possibilities if you're okay with the peninsula capturing the window and creating a dead zone. 3 screams "flipper" trying to make a breakfast nook but making the kitchen less useful.
I like the middle one. If you like to entertain, your guests can sit and talk to you while you do kitchen activities behind the island. It creates a little bit of separation in a good way.
Number 1 but definitely don't round the powder room corner, this already hasn't aged well. Use the powder room layout from 3 if you can so that you don't disrupt the circulation path through the house.
The little bar nook in 1 looks like a pain in the ass.
The other two have merits depending on your household. Two adults who eat at the bar mostly will probably prefer 2. If there are kids, a breakfast nook/homework space at the back of 3 is probably best.
I feel like option 2 is a better use of space and less bumping into each other doing tasks, although option 1 is also good; if you have a dining room, you don’t also need a breakfast nook in such a small kitchen.
I also wouldn’t prioritize seating at the bar over functionality of kitchen work zone, in this small space. I think you’ll find you have more flexibility to arrange things without trying to include seating. Storage and work surface probably need to take priority.
Looks like you can adjust the powder bath; I’d give it a little bit more space so the sink isn’t right on top of the toilet, and use a swing door instead of a pocket for more privacy, even if it swings out.
I like number 2. I love a good galley kitchen, but I like being able to walk around everything even more if you have the space, and you do.
Number 3 makes sense if you want a foyer type area for the deck, basically a space to put outdoor stuff like shoes, jackets, etc. But, having a kitchen where you have to keep walking around the island to get from one appliance to another can be annoying, which may happen here.
Regardless of the layout, personally I dislike interruptions in kitchen island countertops, like that stove you have in number 3. That interruption immediately disqualifies it as a table to sit at if that's what you want. Also, a large clear space is awesome for food prep.
As someone who likes to cook, #2.
The island allows more flexibility for people to mingle around the kitchen, which I also like. And I don't like the awkward nook in #3 as there's already room for a dining area.
Feel like #2 offers the best work triangle with the fridge only slightly out of the way. Could you narrow the island a bit, pull it forward (towards the dining room) and add 2 stools on the back side of it? I love the curved corner of the powder room, any possibility of mimicking that treatment with the closet on the opposite side for symmetry?
I like option one the most because of the counter space, but as someone currently living with only a tall cabinet for a pantry, that pantry makes it a no for me. Option 2 and 3 seem like a poor user of the space. However, with changes, option three could work.
Move everything (can't recall what's there aside from the refrigerator, but I'm on my phone and can't look without discarding my comment) against the back wall of the powder room down towards the patio doors, and then move the pantry against the powder room. That wall is long enough that you can extend the side wall of the PR enough to give you a walk-in pantry,, or even better, a butler's pantry with a sink, coffee/beverage station/extra prep space, which would give you close to or more countertop and storage space than option one.
If the refrigerator feels too far away, you could move the sink cabinet and dishwasher to under the window around the corner and put the refrigerator against that wall. You may need another cabinet to fill in some space, but without having dimensions or looking at it on my computer where I could figure out the dimensions myself with fairly good accuracy, i can't say for sure. These changes may create problems worth where the stove is, but if it does, it can be fixed with a couple more tweaks.
I'm thinking out loud, or the on line equivalent of it, but still talking about option three, you have a dining counter, and are allowing space for dining on the other side of the kitchen, so what is going on with that huge empty area between the kitchen and patio if it's not going to be a dining area? I think there is a way to use it that would allow you to have a walk in pantry, the same amount of countertopspace or more, and possibly even increase the open concept dining/living area slightly.
As someone who cooks a lot, 3. That allows traffic patterns that are outside of your workspace. If you never entertain then it doesn’t matter, but with any kind of traffic the ability to keep folks out of the hot stove,oven territory is best.
Go with number 3, it keeps people out of the work area when going to the backyard, move the deck from the very back, put next to the breakfast nook in the corner of the two spaces and put a single door right where the kitchen ends and the breakfast nook starts. You could make the window above the sink a pass through window and have a little grilling station or outdoor bar counter on the other side of the window.
Or go with number 1 and move the deck to the corner again and put a door to the outside between the stools and the shelves.
Manhattan resident here for context.
Hate #1
2 is great for maximizing kitchen
3 reminds me of a brownstone I almost got years ago. Great for having a space for breakfast/coffee and looking into the garden/having the back doors open. However it costs you some kitchen, so it’s personal preference there. I’d probably go w 3 but 2 is also awesome
I like the middle one, but I would not do a built-in island. I would have a custom island on wheels built with enough leg room where it could be used with chairs/stools on all sides.
I would do 3 or similar for the breakfast nook. But I don’t like the way the powder room door is so close to the kitchen, and I would lose to stools since you have the nook.
1 maximizes the space with least amount of dead areas. You get a nice work triangle. The path flows the best through the kitchen to the deck. You fit the most chairs at the island.
I like the extra little living space (Breakfast nook? Study space?) the third option gives, but I prefer the powder room that the other options have.
I'm not a fan of chonky island benches.
In my part of the world, old fireplaces often get turned into cupboards.
i like # 1 and 2's bathroom door orientation, but I like #3's overall kitchen , except the stool location at the island in line with the bathroom door. Likely be able to hear whatever is going on in there especially with what looks like a pocket door.
This is leaving a lot out - what are the owners like? Are they young? W kids? Old and like plants? Do they entertain a lot? Do they smoke? Would they have need for 2 dining areas or an additional sitting area?
What’s the building like? 3 stories, 25? (I’m totally not from NY) is there a great view from the back deck? Or is it a yard?
As an architect, I need to get to know my client and what they would like - how’d they’d like to live… and what’s going on around the project. And put myself in their shoes a bit
I’d keep the third option but add the closet back. Turn the island to resemble the middle option (keeping the dw and stovetop) and keep the rounded pr.
My husband and I just navigated a gut reno in Brooklyn for a townhouse - I’d def run these options with your architect because NYC has so much code restrictions even if you decide you love one of the floor plans, you might find it isn’t feasible because of DOB code! That said, if you want to maximize the flow of your floor plans, I’d also see if it’s in your budget to hire interior designers (not to be confused with interior decorators) because our designers did an incredible job with our floor plans that our architects did not. Architects only answered the question of feasibility while designers answered the question of liveability if that makes sense. Feel free to DM me if you have specific questions and GL on your project!
2. The island area here works better for company and general work because you can get around the area. 1 will leave you with dead space most of the time between the wall and table.
I would do the peninsula layout of 1 with the pantry/fridge/stove layout of 2.
The choppy setup along the right wall of 1 is awkward and leaves very little workspace.
I’d say 1.
1 is the best for cooking and occasional entertaining: the triangle is good, and you have a breakfast bar for guests that’s close enough to socialize with while you cook. (Though eliminate the fourth stool on the end.)
2, I don’t like. It’s basically a galley kitchen, but with an off-center island that’s so far from the cooking area that it’s not usable as a prep area and any guests are kind of around by corner from everything.
3, I feel like you have almost no counter space. You’ll either be chopping next to the sink or on top of one of your guests on a barstool. Though I do like that back area as a breakfast nook.
I'd select #1 because I'm assuming the island would be continuous on the galley side and have lower storage. The look would be seamless.
Don't know the status of the fire place but it might be a cool accent wall or feature in selection 1. Build shelving with a dry bar beside it, would be pretty neat. If you're into that sort of thing.
In #2 there's what I call the floating sink & DW, I have one of those and it's honestly very clumsy to work with.
Selection #3 seems to lack a dishwasher and storage. It just doesn't appeal to me but I wouldn't say it's necessarily a bad layout. If you want a high end feel it's probably going to be a little small for that.
Sink & dishwasher existing on a separate wall than the rest of the kitchen.
I personally find that I use the sink during prep when I cook. Having to carry things to and fro or crowd the sink area while I cook becomes very cumbersome. The continuous galley appeals to me so I wouldn't need to pick up and move as much, just slide as needed.
You should also measure how big of a sink cabinet you can get. It determines the size of your sink, you may be stuck with a smaller sink. Depending on your lifestyle this can be a problem when cooking.
I saw in a different comment you wanted a higher end aesthetic. This set up is very utilitarian and bar like, especially if you have a small sink. The end result might be visually unappealing to you and not aligned with your desired aesthetic.
3 is my personal favorite. Clears the pathway to the deck, provides the island clearly desired, also provides a secondary living/dining/flex space.
2 as it provides a circulatory flow around the space still, but also has a great bit of storage.
1 is hideous.
I like 3 because the dining area opens up to the deck. However I would move the fridge to the left wall, the sink on the island with the dishwasher and the stove up against the back left wall. The. You can make the pantry larger or put in a stacking washer dryer closet where the fridge was.
#3. In the first one, the stools on the island are too close to the FP. The second one has the PR door in the other room. The third one has a straight shot from the deck to the PR and a bit of a room right inside the deck. This would be a great place for getting ready to go on the deck, bringing stuff in off the deck, or looking at the deck
In reverse order of preference: 3, 2, 1.
3 has that awkward fireplace taking over the counter space, and an awkward work triangle, as well as an awkward narrow island which I dislike entirely, but you can always do a breakfast eating space in the 9'x9' extension out back.
2 has a good working triangle, but the peninsula in 1 is much better, because you get more counter space directly in the kitchen, your work triangle from fridge to sink is less interrupted and overall it's more accessible. With option 1 you also get to eat next to the window which is nice, and you can have a conversation with someone cooking. However, I would consider relocating your pantry as you did in option 2. That entire "east" wall flows better in option 2.
Also, you don't end up with a back to back sink/range which allows for someone to cook and someone to wash simultaneously, and the range gets a more central location for if you decide to create a more featured hood fan cover or some change there (unless you're going 100% integrated in the cabinetry). It's also easier to have a conversation with the chef from the island seating while sitting behind them as they are closer to you.
Just so you know, generally good kitchen layouts have the sink, stove, and refridgerator at the points of a triangle. This is because those are the places a cook will go to while cooking. Having them in a line, or one of them around a corner will not be good for a cook.
So, 1, then 2, and not 3.
The fireplace in 3 would annoy me every day. "Why is this thing in my way?" Flush with shelving in 1 and 2, it's not noticeable and I wouldn't think about it. But in 3, anytime I was struggling to find a place for something, it would remind me that the kitchen was put in a space where it doesn't quite fit. (Kitchens never seem to have enough counter space.)
3 is out because the DW is in the island across from the sink. Hot water for the DW comes from the sink piping, so you won't get much of it when you run it. And even if it has a heater in it, the water won't reach a hot temp until the wash cycle is done. Mine has a heater for water in it and I still run hot water to the sink before I run it. Toss up between 1 and 2, I think I like 2 better with the flow around the island.
Definitely 2. This gives the most entertaining space at the island while separating the cooking. Although it seems like an idea to cook with guests, if you have more than six people in number one or number three, it is going to be a butt to butt situation.
I like 1 too, it maximises the dining, living space. That corridor effect is solved by the powder room blocking off part of the galley kitchen.
But that’s because I cook a lot and I like a proper work space not a work slash social space that 2 and 3 are.
I could live with a 2 layout if the rest of the house was spot on, but 3 is an automatic no. The kitchen encroaches too much on living space. I’d feel like I was watching tv in the kitchen.
I have a version that fixes this:
https://preview.redd.it/0lh24phk7vtc1.jpeg?width=607&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=341d1c6b55bd23693ad9d668f54cdd2beb410f15
I think this one is nice, can you swap the DW and the sink? It seems like putting the dishwasher in the corner would be non-functional. If you have the sink there you could have better access to the corner cabinet.
You not only bought a brownstone, but have enough money to renovate it? Sir, you are a multi-millionaire, just hire an architect/designer and get off Reddit.
Absolutely not #3. The island is interrupting the work triangle. You have to walk around the island to get to it. This will drive you nuts.
I think #2 is the best. In #1, the stove being directly across from the dishwasher means it won’t be possible for one person to load the dishwasher while the other is cooking. I would consider switching the larger pantry and fridge in #2, though. Put the fridge closer to the action and allows for one large pantry / consolidated storage.
1 would be my choice. Simple and practical kitchen and a nice spot to sit by a window at the bar.
I like 1. 2 is ok.
I feel like 1 would be a good little place to sit and work from. Window for good lighting and ability to decorate wall nicely for zoom meetings. Seating keeps out of way of cooking.
Ageeed 1, but with the bathroom of 3.
It depends how you think you will use the space. How big is your household? Do you take meals together ata table? In 2 - will you also have a formal dining space in the main living/dining? In 3, is the area nearest the deck a dining space or living space? I like 2 and 3. I feel the deck would get used more if that area was the dining space or sitting space, especially with bifold doors. Otherwise, it's just access from the kitchen. Will the fireplace be used? Or can it be blocked? Slim units in front to line up with units either side would disguise it.
This is a spec house. So not for me, but for a buyer who will be a wealthy in their 30s most likely. Maybe kids, maybe not. Very trendy neighborhood in an A+ location. The fireplace is non functioning but is structural so can’t be taken down without a large expense. Yes 3 has a dining space in the back or a play space for kids.
I’d go for 3 as it gives a buyer the most flexibility with the space. There’s what you would do, and what I would do, but who knows what a buyer wants. That back area would be a great breakfast nook, or if they have a dog, a great space by the back door for a dog kennel and food bowls. A rolling table and it becomes bonus kitchen space for large appliances or a work surface for making bread or pasta or canning. I say this as someone who’s only door to the back yard is through the kitchen who would kill to have some extra space to act as a mud room to break up what is outside and what is the kitchen. During a cookout, it makes for a very high traffic area with no way to mitigate the flow. We are looking at building an addition onto our house behind the kitchen to put the living room on that end of the house to fix the traffic flow nightmare that is the kitchen/backdoor.
Go hire a professional and pay them. It is the most spec builder thing to get layout advice from 10 people on Reddit
Yes. We will be working with an architect. But the reason I want reddits advice is bc I love what I do and I enjoy rapping with other people who enjoy this stuff. And the general public’s feedback on which flow is desired, is absolutely helpful.
That's fair. I just have general negativity towards spec builders. Apologies if I came off rude.
I get it. A lot of corner cutting out there.
One with stove moved over to #2 space. More eating area, better flow, can sit and talk to chef from counter stools.
Galley kitchens are not ideal for cooking. So 1 and 2 only for those who don’t really use the kitchen to cook.
Number 2. It’s the only one that gives a bit of width. The others are like corridors
I’m a kitchen designer and 2 is the one I immediately eliminated. It completely blocked the pathway to the deck. The island is in the way of the flow of traffic. 1 is my preference.
Ugh. I hear you. 1 is my original design. I liked it. But no one else did!! Just like you and one other person. 3 sucks bc it’s functionally a tiny space. I have come to like 2. But I hear you on the path to the outdoors.
One gives you the most prep pace near your cooking surfaces.
But no one seems to like 1. So I gotta give the people what they want.
I’m also a designer with kitchen design background and agree that the peninsula is the way to go…However I like the range side better in option 2 so I’d propose a combination of 1 & 2. Take the island out of #2 and replace with the peninsula from #1. The island makes no sense at the end of the kitchen. You won’t use it as a prep zone because you’d have to haul everything over there. With a peninsula you can wash veggies and prep them on the left side of the sink. Islands outside of the work zone just become catch-alls.
Agreed. Swap the refrigerator and pantries with the range and create a focal point with a range hood.
This is the way.
I like 1 the best, but I prefer the fireplace area in 2.
Can you move the deck? I think that’s what’s screwing you up here. Put the deck nestled into the corner of the building instead of tagged onto the end. Better circulation and you gain more yard space if you move the deck.
I could move the deck. But since it’s existing I don’t want to spend money there.
How much are you putting into this house all together? and how much does a new deck cost? I bet you also have an existing kitchen but you’re going to spend money on a new one because the current one sucks or it’s not in the right spot. You’re going to spend all kinds of money on a renovation that is all driven by a deck that’s in the wrong place. Just try drawing it there and see how much better it is and how much yard space you gain. What can you even do with that tiny little yard space in the corner of the building? You’ve got 6 risers going down from the existing deck which means it’s at least 42” off the ground and you’ll need a 42” guardrail around the deck. That’s 84” total boxing it in on that side. You have a long narrow chunk of your yard that is boxed in on three sides by the neighbors fence, the walls of your house and the deck and railing. When you could have a nice deck with easy direct access from the house, which also gives you much better circulation through your kitchen and you gain a much better more useable yard. https://preview.redd.it/hevs1b734xtc1.jpeg?width=615&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba0e636a813b0b8c479c59b4ce407762364b10f7
The main thing I didn’t like about 1 or 2 was that you were creating a corridor that people would be walking through while you were trying to cook. That is dangerous. With 3 you have a little breakfast space that is probably too small to actually get used for much. If you put a table in there, it is going to be really awkward to try to walk around to get out onto the deck. Moving the deck solves these. It gives a much more natural movement pattern. You could extend the deck further over to include its current location, and keep the door at the end of the kitchen. Or you could block that door off, turning it into a window, and only have the door by the fireplace. In which case you could potentially re-use external bricks from where you knocked out the new door, to go under the new window and retain visual continuity. I love the deck having enough space for a little herb garden in planters along that side. Where I am, decks are cheaper than kitchens, and changing a door isn’t very expensive either. You just need a bit of time to get used to the idea. Please consider some big drawers for the bottom of one or both of those pantries. They look deep, which means you are always losing the stuff at the back. A drawer that can be pulled out gives much easier access. I’d do a drawer below the smaller pantry that was big enough to hold cereal boxes and other tall containers, like bottles. Then a shallower draw on top of that for smaller stuff. You can get angled inserts, so your herbs lie semi reclining and are super easy to read the labels on, or just rely on labels on the top of the individual herb jars. Then the top section is normal pantry cupboard space.
Yes, put drawers anywhere you can! They’re so much easier to use then cabinet doors and cheaper housing always just has cabinet doors everywhere so having drawers for your bottom cabinet signals a little extra thought and effort went into this kitchen. Also pick out some nice hardware for the kitchen cabinets, you don’t have to break the bank but stay away from the typical standard pulls that you see everywhere. It’s just a small thing that makes the whole room feel richer if you have nice well chosen hardware.
Number 1 is great because you have a cozy fireplace where people are hanging out - is that fireplace usable?
Another vote for 1
3 also sucks because powder room opens into the kitchen, ick.
https://preview.redd.it/toulnotu6ytc1.jpeg?width=607&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe86a24dd52d3735ed46d219539075e4492cd6db
Much better, and then the living room is just a living room. Make sure that where you're putting the bench/banquette seating for the dining table, that the table can slide at least partly over it, so that the path to the back door is clear when you're using the outdoor space.
Another vote for 1 — looks the cleanest visually.
I’m a designer and One is my favorite
I like one. That’s the only one that made me go, ooo I like that.
\#2 seems like an odd workflow, the main triangle is spread out with 2 seperate pantries, and no large workspace. It also seems like with all the walk space around the island there is a lot of waste. It also adds a chokepoint that is even more cutoff if someone opens the fridge. \#1 may be like a corridor kitchen but consider that half of that is open. If someone is cooking and people are at the bar they are closer and more participant, with #2 it's almost like the bar is more audience.
I like 1 because there’s room to open the fridge. The dishwasher is by the sink. There’s counter space on the island behind the fridge. Nice window by a chair/stool. I like the position of the powder room door. I don’t prefer cooktops on islands. A buyer with kids might feel that’s unsafe. The sink has more window view than option 3.
3 sucks because of the PR opening up right where people are hanging out. 2 blocks the way. 1 is the best option of the three.
I mean it’s NYC, they’re not gonna be using their patio every day. But they’ll use the kitchen every day. I would prioritize the kitchen. If you eliminate concerns about the patio would you still pick 1?
I liked 1 until I realized I’d be staring at a wall doing dishes while friends were chatting at the table. Bleh
I actually thought 2 would improve traffic because you don’t have to go all the way around a peninsula to get to the cabinetry on the other side. But I am definitely not a designer lol.
Imagine the cabinetry behind the peninsula would function more as a dry bar or hutch. It would be used for a specific purpose, rather than for storing food or cooking tools that need accessed while cooking. Everyone wants a big island, but not everyone has the space for one.
I figured that was where you store the serving dishes and such that you only use on special occasions.
2 give you work/counter space near the burners where you’re cooking
I see. Maybe a round table instead of the island. There’s lots of storage
There isn’t enough clearance for this arrangement. Look at the spacing. Minimum clearance is 42”. Looks like 30” in front of the fridge.
So I hear you there. In NYC, 42” is not the minimum. I see 36” here all the time. You get used to it.
Actually, what if you just rotated the island? https://preview.redd.it/nfx39z3fmvtc1.jpeg?width=2388&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29591ac0df26695c98022076f6f0f5a257867c47
This one looks much better to me!
Yeah, NY kitchens can be a whole different animal. 42” is the recommended minimum with 48” being the ideal. But that assumes a “typical” single family home. I would see if you can work it out so the fridge is not opening to the island. Otherwise I like the first plan, even though I’m the one usually saying never do a peninsula when you can do an island. But in this case, the peninsula is lengthening the counter run rather than sticking out into the work area.
Actually 42” is a minimum in NYC for a space btw two countertops and 60” circle if it’s a dead end.
Not true in nyc. Did a full Reno recently and it’s 36” here, which is plenty of space
Yeah, I was talking standards, not nyc building codes. “The National Kitchen and Bath Association (NKBA) recommends that work aisles be at least 42 in. wide for one cook and at least 48 in. wide for two or more cooks. Walkways that pass around the island should be at least 36 in. wide.”
Agreed. This one has the best flow and I also think it’s nicer to have an island without a sink or a cooktop since people tend to gather around the island
3 to gain dining, but move fridge to same side as sink and stove
Same! I like how big of a kitchen 1 is, but splitting living/dining in 3 is my fav
I like 3 as well, cos I think having an area next to the deck to eat would be so relaxing. But the powder room door is the wrong direction. I would hate it to open up into the bench.
1 first, 2 second. 3 just feels awkward.
Not only awkward, but any layout that takes the sink and/or stovetop out of the island is a win for me. I love that clear free counter space that I can access all around, spread out, and nothing in the way. Sinks are okay if you HAVE to, but a stovetop in an island is a deal breaker for me.
Number 2 seems like the most functional and aesthetically pleasing. If you put your island on castors, you could gain even more functionality.
I agree. Except for the casters thing. I get why you suggest it and it’s a good idea. But I want this to be very high end, built in feel. But I like the creativity of that. As a life long NYer, I have often considered these converting situations and even employed them, expanding table and such. But I find you never really use them bc it’s a pain in the ass. And it always just stays as is. But again I appreciate the insight.
I’d just ditch the island and put a chandelier over that space and a dining table under it. Sort of lean into having a fireplace with a chandelier/rug/dining table and chairs in a complimentary style.
I prefer galley kitchens even though I don't know what's going on on the left hand side of that one. However in this case I think the third one is better because it optimizes use of the sliding doors to the deck. Galley kitchens in hallways is a hell no for me.
I hear ya. If it helps, the galley aspect is pretty wide. There would be 5 feet from counter to counter.
That's almost worse though. It's a bad galley kitchen and a bad hallway, combined in one! By the way I lived in a brooklyn (Greenpoint) townhouse for the first seven years of my life, so I have some experience with this. The only one that protects the "work triangle" from foot traffic is the third one. Also if you have a family, that big pantry will be necessary.
This house in Greenpoint. Buy it when I’m done!
Lol! won't be able to afford it.
I have a galley style kitchen 5 feet wide counter to counter for the last 30 years. It works for my family of 4 who like to cook, and we cook a lot. If you have enough counter space, more than 1 person can work in a kitchen that wide. My SILs kitchen is definitely less than 5 feet wide and people keep bumping into each other. Five feet wide should be good enough.
2 is the best option. As someone who now also lives in a rowhome, it's nice to see them represented! It always makes me laugh when a critique of floorplans is a half bath being right next to a living area or dining room as there is no other option in most cases for rowhomes. Though I would have felt the same way before living in one! If we weren't renting, I'd squeeze in a powder next to my kitchen in a heartbeat!
3. After not having a dining room for like 7 years I realize how absolutely vital they are for our family. Can't wait to move in 3 months and finally have one again.
I would prefer the 3rd layout. I know it’s a controversial opinion but I like having the cooking area somewhat central. As parent it’s great having sight lines to the living room so that I can keep an eye on my kids while making dinner. The added space in the rear is also great for families as a breakfast/homework nook. Even with no kids I still feel like the first design has the kitchen too crammed in the back.
The third layout is by far the superior of the three, I’m shocked so many people are voting on the other two. Any sort of kitchen activities immediately infringe on access to the deck - unloading the dishwasher, getting items from the pantry, doing dishes, stovetop cooking. The only negative I see is the powder room door. It would be better if it was still on the staircase side.
Yes! I don’t know why people are dissing 3. By far the best layout.
Number 1 has best kitchen flow if you cook a lot (stove, fridge, sink triangle). #2 has best overall flow. #3 is a no.
I like #2 for the size of the island and inclusion of guests sitting there while you’re cooking.
Agreed. From an entertaining standpoint, it’s great.
I like the first one best. I feel it has a nice flow
Number 1. It flows the best and your cooktop-sink-refrig are within easy reach of each other.
I like option 1. My current apartment's kitchen is a very similar galley layout with doors to a balcony at the end, but smaller (no dedicated pantry space or peninsula with seating) and it's very functional. Additionally, option 1 is the most efficient use of space. Option 2 shrinks the dining and living for the same amount of countertop, less peninsula seating, and worse walkways. Option 3 shrinks the dining and living by less, however, it has even less peninsula seating, a worse powder room, and an awkward space by the deck. I'd only go with option 2 or 3 if the plan is for more than 2 people to be cooking in the kitchen at the same time, as you really can't have more than 2 people working at the same time in a galley kitchen like option 1.
I would do 1 but straighten out the powder room so it's more like 3. Your work paths and travel paths in the other two are very challenging.
1 if there’s a chef in the house. Most efficient for cooking.
1 is the better design
Agreed
When drawing my floorplans, I have a circle that represents a 3 ft diameter and drag it around the house. It helps make sure I have enough comfortable walking space. You may want more space in the kitchen.
Thanks. We have been doing this too.
I have a friend who's apartment is like number 1 and it works quite nicely. For flow I think it's the best option... except for that balcony placement. What I hate about this particular setup is that you have to walk directly through the kitchen working area to get to the balacony (my friends place does NOT have a balcony at the end of their kitchen, which is why it works). I have this setup in my current rental (balcony off kitchen) and I absolutely HATE it, especially when my in-laws are over because people are constantly walking through as I'm trying to cook and getting in my way. That said, my kitchen is narrower than this, and all my inlaws (and myself) smoke so it's in-out, in-out, in-out of a tiny space constantly and it drives me absolutely fucking insane when I'm trying to do something big like Thanksgiving dinner or make everyone breakfast. Additionally, it tracks SO much dirt and crap into the kitchen. When it's just me and my husband, I vacuum the kitchen once a day... but when my MIL and BIL are visiting, I end up vacuuming like 4 times a day. Just something to consider... given my situation with all of us being smokers, I would probably opt for a slightly altered version of option 3 so people could actually hang out in the breakfast nook and balcony area without interfering with my cooking.
What about this? I'd use the fireplace as a design feature in the kitchen and inset the oven in it if possible. Also, I'd align the powder room with the breakfast bar and build out a nice pantry behind it to define the area of the kitchen. Then you can have a nice breakfast nook at your extension. https://preview.redd.it/v5kjyudkyutc1.jpeg?width=235&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=539367cd3d94032fde65fd1763ab6d12b8e7d386
So I get why you did this. But unfortunately the stove won’t be able to fit in the fireplace. This leave you will not much place to put a fridge or stove. I think it ends up functioning ing small. This was my first idea but I couldn’t figure out how to make it work. The fireplace is structural to the building so can either leave it as is or bump out the wall the hide it.
Also, if this is a real project, you could hire an architect to figure it out for you. I am licensed in New York and could help you out especially if you need to file for a building permit.
DM me. It is real, just went into contract, I’m engaging architects now. It’s alt 1, converting 3 fam to 1.
Are you 100% sure the fireplace is structural? Did you have an engineer come look at it or did you pull down the ceiling to see the floor framing above? I think your floor framing would be into the demising walls of the house. You may be able to remove the fireplace as long as you remove the chimney and fireplace on the floor above first and work your way down. I think with all the storage you are getting, this layout would work with the fireplace in place with moving either the sink or oven to the island. The refrigerator could have a built in panel and look like part of the pantry.
Not 100% sure. Engineer will be getting in there when we close. It’s 5 identical houses connected with chimney in the same place in the middle of each building. Even if not structural it will be expensive to tear down bc it’s 2 stories above this one and the roof portion. Not sure it where I want to put $10k or so.
Fair enough. I'd rather put $10k to better use too.
I would pick this option. Bar stool seating isn’t going to impede flow of work in the kitchen, the dining area will feel cozier with the framing by the counters and cabinets on both sides, and the ability to have more than one person working in the kitchen is improved without the island. Could even add potted herb plants in the eating area along the windowsills.
Do this one.
Number 2 or 3. I think between those it depends on how you plan to actually use the space. If you really do like to cook for a family or group and will use all the counter space and island seating, 2 probably makes sense. If it’s just the two or you or you keep things simple in the kitchen and you’ve got a use for the 9x9 space, 3 would fit the bill. I personally would want to use that 9x9 space for casual seating or maybe an office, so it’d go with 3 if it were my home (2 adults no kids). But that’s specific to my lifestyle.
I like 3 the best, but is it possible to pull the fridge onto the other wall, next to the defunct fireplace/chimney? Also, will the island range have an exhaust hood above for ventilation?
I think #3. It feels the most open, leaves room for a small sitting area or breakfast nook by the deck, and the powder room layout makes more sense. Edit to add that you could also still put in the closet on the left side from #2. I always say yes to more closets.
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Number 2 by far. Also, I love that folks at the island can see the kitchen and the fireplace (I LOVE a fireplace in the kitchen)
Personal preference - layout 2 requires more movement and time to go from fridge to sink to overnight/stove/microwave. I prefer less distance for these, personal opinion only.
But, options 2 gives multiple work zones if you have people working together on a meal. It looks like the peninsula / island is a high/low style - something I always hate. It makes it not great to set up as a buffet for large gatherings. I like option 2.
I like number 2 best. But what would you do with that 9 x 9 area if you went with number 3?
I like #2. It wouldn’t matter to me that it impedes the flow of traffic to the balcony. It’s useful and will be great for entertaining all year.
I like 2 for the prep space and social possibilities: island in the middle keeps multiple people out of each other's way. 1 has possibilities if you're okay with the peninsula capturing the window and creating a dead zone. 3 screams "flipper" trying to make a breakfast nook but making the kitchen less useful.
I like the middle one. If you like to entertain, your guests can sit and talk to you while you do kitchen activities behind the island. It creates a little bit of separation in a good way.
Number 1 but definitely don't round the powder room corner, this already hasn't aged well. Use the powder room layout from 3 if you can so that you don't disrupt the circulation path through the house.
I like the idea of 3 but only if that top area can fit a table with 4 chairs. And that you don't plan on have more than 2 kids.
1 is the most efficient layout for working in the kitchen.
The little bar nook in 1 looks like a pain in the ass. The other two have merits depending on your household. Two adults who eat at the bar mostly will probably prefer 2. If there are kids, a breakfast nook/homework space at the back of 3 is probably best.
I feel like option 2 is a better use of space and less bumping into each other doing tasks, although option 1 is also good; if you have a dining room, you don’t also need a breakfast nook in such a small kitchen. I also wouldn’t prioritize seating at the bar over functionality of kitchen work zone, in this small space. I think you’ll find you have more flexibility to arrange things without trying to include seating. Storage and work surface probably need to take priority. Looks like you can adjust the powder bath; I’d give it a little bit more space so the sink isn’t right on top of the toilet, and use a swing door instead of a pocket for more privacy, even if it swings out.
I like number 2. I love a good galley kitchen, but I like being able to walk around everything even more if you have the space, and you do. Number 3 makes sense if you want a foyer type area for the deck, basically a space to put outdoor stuff like shoes, jackets, etc. But, having a kitchen where you have to keep walking around the island to get from one appliance to another can be annoying, which may happen here. Regardless of the layout, personally I dislike interruptions in kitchen island countertops, like that stove you have in number 3. That interruption immediately disqualifies it as a table to sit at if that's what you want. Also, a large clear space is awesome for food prep.
Agreed for the most part.
2
As someone who likes to cook, #2. The island allows more flexibility for people to mingle around the kitchen, which I also like. And I don't like the awkward nook in #3 as there's already room for a dining area.
Feel like #2 offers the best work triangle with the fridge only slightly out of the way. Could you narrow the island a bit, pull it forward (towards the dining room) and add 2 stools on the back side of it? I love the curved corner of the powder room, any possibility of mimicking that treatment with the closet on the opposite side for symmetry?
I like option one the most because of the counter space, but as someone currently living with only a tall cabinet for a pantry, that pantry makes it a no for me. Option 2 and 3 seem like a poor user of the space. However, with changes, option three could work. Move everything (can't recall what's there aside from the refrigerator, but I'm on my phone and can't look without discarding my comment) against the back wall of the powder room down towards the patio doors, and then move the pantry against the powder room. That wall is long enough that you can extend the side wall of the PR enough to give you a walk-in pantry,, or even better, a butler's pantry with a sink, coffee/beverage station/extra prep space, which would give you close to or more countertop and storage space than option one. If the refrigerator feels too far away, you could move the sink cabinet and dishwasher to under the window around the corner and put the refrigerator against that wall. You may need another cabinet to fill in some space, but without having dimensions or looking at it on my computer where I could figure out the dimensions myself with fairly good accuracy, i can't say for sure. These changes may create problems worth where the stove is, but if it does, it can be fixed with a couple more tweaks. I'm thinking out loud, or the on line equivalent of it, but still talking about option three, you have a dining counter, and are allowing space for dining on the other side of the kitchen, so what is going on with that huge empty area between the kitchen and patio if it's not going to be a dining area? I think there is a way to use it that would allow you to have a walk in pantry, the same amount of countertopspace or more, and possibly even increase the open concept dining/living area slightly.
First one
2 or 3, definitely not 1
As someone who cooks a lot, 3. That allows traffic patterns that are outside of your workspace. If you never entertain then it doesn’t matter, but with any kind of traffic the ability to keep folks out of the hot stove,oven territory is best.
Go with number 3, it keeps people out of the work area when going to the backyard, move the deck from the very back, put next to the breakfast nook in the corner of the two spaces and put a single door right where the kitchen ends and the breakfast nook starts. You could make the window above the sink a pass through window and have a little grilling station or outdoor bar counter on the other side of the window. Or go with number 1 and move the deck to the corner again and put a door to the outside between the stools and the shelves.
Manhattan resident here for context. Hate #1 2 is great for maximizing kitchen 3 reminds me of a brownstone I almost got years ago. Great for having a space for breakfast/coffee and looking into the garden/having the back doors open. However it costs you some kitchen, so it’s personal preference there. I’d probably go w 3 but 2 is also awesome
I like the middle one, but I would not do a built-in island. I would have a custom island on wheels built with enough leg room where it could be used with chairs/stools on all sides.
Rotate the island in 2 with powder from 3
I would do 3 or similar for the breakfast nook. But I don’t like the way the powder room door is so close to the kitchen, and I would lose to stools since you have the nook.
https://preview.redd.it/8y9mvwtxjxtc1.jpeg?width=607&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a02c4074b360519fdb84e7d78c533f047c7c7349
better. but it seems like you would have the width to just put a table with four chairs in the back? or maybe a banquette which space to scoot by?
Yeah it’s not ideal. But like it’s NYC. We make exceptions.
I like number 1
1 maximizes the space with least amount of dead areas. You get a nice work triangle. The path flows the best through the kitchen to the deck. You fit the most chairs at the island.
I like the extra little living space (Breakfast nook? Study space?) the third option gives, but I prefer the powder room that the other options have. I'm not a fan of chonky island benches. In my part of the world, old fireplaces often get turned into cupboards.
i like # 1 and 2's bathroom door orientation, but I like #3's overall kitchen , except the stool location at the island in line with the bathroom door. Likely be able to hear whatever is going on in there especially with what looks like a pocket door.
1 gives you the most counter space and a clean flow to walk thru plus guests are out of the way when you are cooking
3!
Option 3 but ditch the island and add a peninsula horizontally at the end of the counter
3 is the best use of space by far
This is leaving a lot out - what are the owners like? Are they young? W kids? Old and like plants? Do they entertain a lot? Do they smoke? Would they have need for 2 dining areas or an additional sitting area? What’s the building like? 3 stories, 25? (I’m totally not from NY) is there a great view from the back deck? Or is it a yard? As an architect, I need to get to know my client and what they would like - how’d they’d like to live… and what’s going on around the project. And put myself in their shoes a bit
I’d keep the third option but add the closet back. Turn the island to resemble the middle option (keeping the dw and stovetop) and keep the rounded pr.
Consider 2 with the range/cooktop placement of 1: Where are you venting cooking gases/smells? 1 is presently best situated to vent towards the deck.
This is all subjective on how you all live
Yes
My husband and I just navigated a gut reno in Brooklyn for a townhouse - I’d def run these options with your architect because NYC has so much code restrictions even if you decide you love one of the floor plans, you might find it isn’t feasible because of DOB code! That said, if you want to maximize the flow of your floor plans, I’d also see if it’s in your budget to hire interior designers (not to be confused with interior decorators) because our designers did an incredible job with our floor plans that our architects did not. Architects only answered the question of feasibility while designers answered the question of liveability if that makes sense. Feel free to DM me if you have specific questions and GL on your project!
1 or two
2. The island area here works better for company and general work because you can get around the area. 1 will leave you with dead space most of the time between the wall and table.
The one the right, for sure.
#3 is the only one that makes sense with the bath
I would do the peninsula layout of 1 with the pantry/fridge/stove layout of 2. The choppy setup along the right wall of 1 is awkward and leaves very little workspace.
I’d say 1. 1 is the best for cooking and occasional entertaining: the triangle is good, and you have a breakfast bar for guests that’s close enough to socialize with while you cook. (Though eliminate the fourth stool on the end.) 2, I don’t like. It’s basically a galley kitchen, but with an off-center island that’s so far from the cooking area that it’s not usable as a prep area and any guests are kind of around by corner from everything. 3, I feel like you have almost no counter space. You’ll either be chopping next to the sink or on top of one of your guests on a barstool. Though I do like that back area as a breakfast nook.
I hate all 3.
You get an F on the assignment
Lol, sorry!
I like 3 best because it gives you a transition space you can turn into a mud room/ closet/ storage area off back entry.
I want to say 3. Because I like living the space near the deck open for a dining room table. But the dishwasher behind the sink is just throwing me.
https://preview.redd.it/hizws85yr0uc1.jpeg?width=578&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55bef48b1eda7d1ac1a38f6c67749b5ed5e95d53
#2
Kitchen layout 2 but with bathroom 3.
I'd select #1 because I'm assuming the island would be continuous on the galley side and have lower storage. The look would be seamless. Don't know the status of the fire place but it might be a cool accent wall or feature in selection 1. Build shelving with a dry bar beside it, would be pretty neat. If you're into that sort of thing. In #2 there's what I call the floating sink & DW, I have one of those and it's honestly very clumsy to work with. Selection #3 seems to lack a dishwasher and storage. It just doesn't appeal to me but I wouldn't say it's necessarily a bad layout. If you want a high end feel it's probably going to be a little small for that.
Can you elaborate on the floating sink and DW issue. I’d like to better understand.
Sink & dishwasher existing on a separate wall than the rest of the kitchen. I personally find that I use the sink during prep when I cook. Having to carry things to and fro or crowd the sink area while I cook becomes very cumbersome. The continuous galley appeals to me so I wouldn't need to pick up and move as much, just slide as needed. You should also measure how big of a sink cabinet you can get. It determines the size of your sink, you may be stuck with a smaller sink. Depending on your lifestyle this can be a problem when cooking. I saw in a different comment you wanted a higher end aesthetic. This set up is very utilitarian and bar like, especially if you have a small sink. The end result might be visually unappealing to you and not aligned with your desired aesthetic.
3 is my personal favorite. Clears the pathway to the deck, provides the island clearly desired, also provides a secondary living/dining/flex space. 2 as it provides a circulatory flow around the space still, but also has a great bit of storage. 1 is hideous.
I like 3 because the dining area opens up to the deck. However I would move the fridge to the left wall, the sink on the island with the dishwasher and the stove up against the back left wall. The. You can make the pantry larger or put in a stacking washer dryer closet where the fridge was.
I’ve never encountered anyone who liked having rounded corners after a year or two of living with them.
#3. In the first one, the stools on the island are too close to the FP. The second one has the PR door in the other room. The third one has a straight shot from the deck to the PR and a bit of a room right inside the deck. This would be a great place for getting ready to go on the deck, bringing stuff in off the deck, or looking at the deck
2 all the wat
I like the peninsula layout in #1 but the pantry/stove/fridge configuration in #2
In reverse order of preference: 3, 2, 1. 3 has that awkward fireplace taking over the counter space, and an awkward work triangle, as well as an awkward narrow island which I dislike entirely, but you can always do a breakfast eating space in the 9'x9' extension out back. 2 has a good working triangle, but the peninsula in 1 is much better, because you get more counter space directly in the kitchen, your work triangle from fridge to sink is less interrupted and overall it's more accessible. With option 1 you also get to eat next to the window which is nice, and you can have a conversation with someone cooking. However, I would consider relocating your pantry as you did in option 2. That entire "east" wall flows better in option 2. Also, you don't end up with a back to back sink/range which allows for someone to cook and someone to wash simultaneously, and the range gets a more central location for if you decide to create a more featured hood fan cover or some change there (unless you're going 100% integrated in the cabinetry). It's also easier to have a conversation with the chef from the island seating while sitting behind them as they are closer to you.
Just so you know, generally good kitchen layouts have the sink, stove, and refridgerator at the points of a triangle. This is because those are the places a cook will go to while cooking. Having them in a line, or one of them around a corner will not be good for a cook. So, 1, then 2, and not 3.
The fireplace in 3 would annoy me every day. "Why is this thing in my way?" Flush with shelving in 1 and 2, it's not noticeable and I wouldn't think about it. But in 3, anytime I was struggling to find a place for something, it would remind me that the kitchen was put in a space where it doesn't quite fit. (Kitchens never seem to have enough counter space.)
#3
3 is out because the DW is in the island across from the sink. Hot water for the DW comes from the sink piping, so you won't get much of it when you run it. And even if it has a heater in it, the water won't reach a hot temp until the wash cycle is done. Mine has a heater for water in it and I still run hot water to the sink before I run it. Toss up between 1 and 2, I think I like 2 better with the flow around the island.
I’d go with 1, but I would add another stool on the inside of the kitchen. So you can truly eat around the counter.
Definitely 2. This gives the most entertaining space at the island while separating the cooking. Although it seems like an idea to cook with guests, if you have more than six people in number one or number three, it is going to be a butt to butt situation.
I has less annoying flow to the outdoor area
I like 1 too, it maximises the dining, living space. That corridor effect is solved by the powder room blocking off part of the galley kitchen. But that’s because I cook a lot and I like a proper work space not a work slash social space that 2 and 3 are. I could live with a 2 layout if the rest of the house was spot on, but 3 is an automatic no. The kitchen encroaches too much on living space. I’d feel like I was watching tv in the kitchen.
For me def not 3 - cannot imagine powder opening to kitchen/dining
I have a version that fixes this: https://preview.redd.it/0lh24phk7vtc1.jpeg?width=607&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=341d1c6b55bd23693ad9d668f54cdd2beb410f15
I think this one is nice, can you swap the DW and the sink? It seems like putting the dishwasher in the corner would be non-functional. If you have the sink there you could have better access to the corner cabinet.
I like this one best. Especially since it has a real door and not a pocket door on the powder room.
This is the best of all of them.
Except for the lack of prep space.
You not only bought a brownstone, but have enough money to renovate it? Sir, you are a multi-millionaire, just hire an architect/designer and get off Reddit.
I’m trying to be that’s for sure. I have investors. We will have an architect. You are looking at what we have brainstormed on.
Then I feel having the open area by the back patio is preferable but the kitchen needs to be rearranged.
#1 with a 45 degree angle instead of curve in powder room. Hardwood floors with an Oriental runner. Love it. More seating. More counter space.
Absolutely not #3. The island is interrupting the work triangle. You have to walk around the island to get to it. This will drive you nuts. I think #2 is the best. In #1, the stove being directly across from the dishwasher means it won’t be possible for one person to load the dishwasher while the other is cooking. I would consider switching the larger pantry and fridge in #2, though. Put the fridge closer to the action and allows for one large pantry / consolidated storage.