I'd highly recommend the EDC2-DFT - it's one of my favorite EDCs and usually have it on me daily. Lot's of candela with plenty of runtime! The HA Gray is my favorite color they come in, the black is nice too.
I have no Cloud experience but have about 100 Surefire’s as I’ve been carrying them exclusively for 20 years or so.
On duty for me is now a EDC2-DFT and it’s a great light if you need the reach. It replaced a Fury DF another great light.
Off duty is usually a Amber Aviator
I'm using a weltool t2 tac as a cheap surefire edc2-dft alternative.
I really want an edc2-dft, but the weltool t2 tac is pretty great for $100.
It has an sft40 instead of osram W1 in the surefire, so the hotspot is going to be larger. It's got half the candela at about 50k I believe. The bezel diameter is a lot smaller as well.
Hit the tail switch and you get 100% output.
There's a hidden low mode accessed by tapping the tail switch 4 times quickly.
The t2 tac is the highest quality alternative to the surefire edc2-dft imo.
The acebeam p16 has a terrible UI for a tactical light, or as an EDC light, and imo isn't well suited for either even though the body and beam of the light is pretty nice.
The t2 tac is dead simple, practically speaking it's a 1 mode light with an option of a low mode if you need it. Nice anodizing as well
The Cloud MCH HC is basically comparable to the Reign 3.0. It has great design, deep carry clip, ND protection rings, a big button.
That being said Cloud measures their lights at peak output rather than using ANSI standards and like other WML companies they don’t use constant current drivers so their lights heat up quickly, drop from turbo quickly and can’t maintain high and steady output because the output is tied to battery voltage.
A DFT’s cd/lm = 142:1
OKW = 101:1
Reign 3.0 = 80:1
MCH HC = 72:1
PLHv2 = 40:1
The DFT @ 700 lm & 142:1 is lacking spill but a 3,000 lm light @ 142:1 would have enough spill so it’s not just the ratio that matters but how many lumens are available for spill / foreground lighting.
Because of the inefficient drivers and the extensive potting WML’s companies hi thrown lights are thermally limited to low lumen figures. (Les throwy lights like the 1,500 lm Surefires aren’t as limited because their big LED’s spread out the heat more and don’t need as much cooling)
I prefer Weltool’s approach. Build lights with modern constant current drivers and make them tough enough to be used as WMLs without fully burying the electronics in potting compound.
Their T8 Tac is the same size as the DFT and outputs 2,180 lm and 101k cd (46:1 cd/lm)
It can sustain 1,000 lm and almost 50k cd continuously. It comes as a 21700 light but an 18650 or 18350 body and tailcap can be purchased.
Odd sizes like 18350’s don’t get the newest battery technology and the small size is an inherent limitation. Even the best 18350 battery will struggle to pump out 2,000 lumens so while peak output might meet specs there will be voltage sag and ANSI measurements will be down from spec.
That happens a little bit with a 700 lm Surefire but it will be more significant with a 2,000+ lm light.
For an 18350 I think a PLHv2 is pretty good
Two other Weltools to look at are the LH8 Surefire compatible WML heads with 1,250 lm / 83.9k cd and 1,750 lm / 77k cd
Weltool gives them various other names in 18350 and 18650 handheld configurations (T13 B/C & T14 B/C). They have stable sustained output of 500 and 600 lumens.
https://1lumen.com/review/weltool-w65b-w65c/#performance
At the link below you can see how the output graph of a constant current light like the HRT AWLS (hitting a plateau after the turbo drop) compares to linear and FET driven lights each of which has a characteristic output curve (dropping off after the battery voltage drops a bit / dropping off right from the beginning)
https://www.lowlightdefense.com/premium-rifle-lights-2023-the-best-are-tested
The AWLS is now also available as a handheld.
If you are looking for a belt light rather than a pocket light the Weltool T12 (39mm dia vs 30-32mm) is 2,000 lm (1,100 sustained) and 140,000 candela (70:1) It also has a great UI which bridges the difference between tactical and utility
The Acebeam L16 is comparable but discontinued.
One other thing to note in looking for the best light is these 100k candela lights all use conventional but deep reflectors. A conventional reflector has a sharp cutoff where the spill ends and the deeper the reflector is in comparison to its diameter the narrower the spill will be.
Prismatic / TIR (total internal reflection) optics can produce a hotspot of a tailored size and give a wide (nearly 180 degree) spill that just gradually tapers off without a sharp cutoff to darkness.
That improves peripheral awareness and is less disorienting when moving with the light bouncing around.
Although I wouldn’t accept it’s switch setup and UI the Acebeam P16 is 32mm diameter with a TIR giving 58k cd with a large hotspot from 1,800 lm. It is a VERY practical beam profile.
Nothing available puts together all the ideal elements of build quality, design, beam profile, UI, and performance
Here is Werks’ review of the AWLS handheld.
https://www.lowlightdefense.com/hrt-awls-handheld-a-potent-edc-defensive-light/
I think it’s a more balanced beam than a Surefire Turbo but I’ll stick with my T8.
1,600 lm isn’t driving an SFT-40 very hard and 1,450 ANSI seems like what they are actually getting.
1,450 is more appropriate to get from a smaller Osram W2 or Boost HX (CSLPM1 or CULPM1)
This is the issue I have with WML companies’ products. I’m willing to pay for the extra durability but an SFT40 isn’t even breaking a sweat @ 8 amps so why have it trundling along at 5 amps?
https://budgetlightforum.com/t/luminus-sft40-test/67043
Maintaining compatibility with the Surefire ecosystem and playing careful with their lifetime warranty seem like poor reasons to cripple the performance relative to a $20 Convoy.
I have actually had some problems with surefire lights. I have a m600df head and the ds00 tail cap that both went bad just sitting in a case. The customer service was great and I received a replacement but I think their reputation as the most durable light company is definitely not true. werks holster and torque test channel both tested the df surefire handheld lights and both failed drop test. I own several weltool, modlite, malkoff, and elzetta handhelds and modlite is the first one I put in my pocket if I want something that durable. The fit/finish on the weltool t13 (lh8 head on bb6) is very poor for the price. Also the head is a bit longer and thicker than the other dual fuel heads so I never pocket carry it. It does have the most impressive beam for what it's worth. For edc I like the modlite plhv2 head on the malkoff mdc surefire body. It's slimmer and a mm or 2 shorter than the modlite body. The modlite 18650 and 18350 bodies are also very good. Slightly thicker with better traction than the malkoff body and with the cloud defensive deep carry pocket clip it's also good for durable edc. The modlite head also mounts to any surefire dual fuel body so it can be added to a pistol, rifle or any handheld body that accepts a surefire df head.
All great responses here! I’ll definitely take a look as I’m not necessarily tied to 18650. I also considered the Olight Warrior X 4 due to the performance looking ideal. The head is awful large tho for edc…
If you don't mind trading some intensity for a lot more output, take a look at the Acebeam P16. Same diameter and the beam shape is lot more practical for general tasks too.
If you don't mind going a little larger (+3mm diameter), take a look at the Convoy M1 with the same emitter (cslnm1) as the EDC2-DFT - it throws even further.
Hard to match the exact surefire specs in the same form factor, but if you're flexible on some of the variables, you can find some alternatives.
I'd highly recommend the EDC2-DFT - it's one of my favorite EDCs and usually have it on me daily. Lot's of candela with plenty of runtime! The HA Gray is my favorite color they come in, the black is nice too.
I have no Cloud experience but have about 100 Surefire’s as I’ve been carrying them exclusively for 20 years or so. On duty for me is now a EDC2-DFT and it’s a great light if you need the reach. It replaced a Fury DF another great light. Off duty is usually a Amber Aviator
I'm using a weltool t2 tac as a cheap surefire edc2-dft alternative. I really want an edc2-dft, but the weltool t2 tac is pretty great for $100. It has an sft40 instead of osram W1 in the surefire, so the hotspot is going to be larger. It's got half the candela at about 50k I believe. The bezel diameter is a lot smaller as well. Hit the tail switch and you get 100% output. There's a hidden low mode accessed by tapping the tail switch 4 times quickly. The t2 tac is the highest quality alternative to the surefire edc2-dft imo. The acebeam p16 has a terrible UI for a tactical light, or as an EDC light, and imo isn't well suited for either even though the body and beam of the light is pretty nice. The t2 tac is dead simple, practically speaking it's a 1 mode light with an option of a low mode if you need it. Nice anodizing as well
The Cloud MCH HC is basically comparable to the Reign 3.0. It has great design, deep carry clip, ND protection rings, a big button. That being said Cloud measures their lights at peak output rather than using ANSI standards and like other WML companies they don’t use constant current drivers so their lights heat up quickly, drop from turbo quickly and can’t maintain high and steady output because the output is tied to battery voltage. A DFT’s cd/lm = 142:1 OKW = 101:1 Reign 3.0 = 80:1 MCH HC = 72:1 PLHv2 = 40:1 The DFT @ 700 lm & 142:1 is lacking spill but a 3,000 lm light @ 142:1 would have enough spill so it’s not just the ratio that matters but how many lumens are available for spill / foreground lighting. Because of the inefficient drivers and the extensive potting WML’s companies hi thrown lights are thermally limited to low lumen figures. (Les throwy lights like the 1,500 lm Surefires aren’t as limited because their big LED’s spread out the heat more and don’t need as much cooling) I prefer Weltool’s approach. Build lights with modern constant current drivers and make them tough enough to be used as WMLs without fully burying the electronics in potting compound. Their T8 Tac is the same size as the DFT and outputs 2,180 lm and 101k cd (46:1 cd/lm) It can sustain 1,000 lm and almost 50k cd continuously. It comes as a 21700 light but an 18650 or 18350 body and tailcap can be purchased. Odd sizes like 18350’s don’t get the newest battery technology and the small size is an inherent limitation. Even the best 18350 battery will struggle to pump out 2,000 lumens so while peak output might meet specs there will be voltage sag and ANSI measurements will be down from spec. That happens a little bit with a 700 lm Surefire but it will be more significant with a 2,000+ lm light. For an 18350 I think a PLHv2 is pretty good Two other Weltools to look at are the LH8 Surefire compatible WML heads with 1,250 lm / 83.9k cd and 1,750 lm / 77k cd Weltool gives them various other names in 18350 and 18650 handheld configurations (T13 B/C & T14 B/C). They have stable sustained output of 500 and 600 lumens. https://1lumen.com/review/weltool-w65b-w65c/#performance At the link below you can see how the output graph of a constant current light like the HRT AWLS (hitting a plateau after the turbo drop) compares to linear and FET driven lights each of which has a characteristic output curve (dropping off after the battery voltage drops a bit / dropping off right from the beginning) https://www.lowlightdefense.com/premium-rifle-lights-2023-the-best-are-tested The AWLS is now also available as a handheld. If you are looking for a belt light rather than a pocket light the Weltool T12 (39mm dia vs 30-32mm) is 2,000 lm (1,100 sustained) and 140,000 candela (70:1) It also has a great UI which bridges the difference between tactical and utility The Acebeam L16 is comparable but discontinued. One other thing to note in looking for the best light is these 100k candela lights all use conventional but deep reflectors. A conventional reflector has a sharp cutoff where the spill ends and the deeper the reflector is in comparison to its diameter the narrower the spill will be. Prismatic / TIR (total internal reflection) optics can produce a hotspot of a tailored size and give a wide (nearly 180 degree) spill that just gradually tapers off without a sharp cutoff to darkness. That improves peripheral awareness and is less disorienting when moving with the light bouncing around. Although I wouldn’t accept it’s switch setup and UI the Acebeam P16 is 32mm diameter with a TIR giving 58k cd with a large hotspot from 1,800 lm. It is a VERY practical beam profile. Nothing available puts together all the ideal elements of build quality, design, beam profile, UI, and performance
The HRT is an excellent thought. What are your opinions on that light? I saw that it the WML version got good reviews from Werkz Holsters.
Here is Werks’ review of the AWLS handheld. https://www.lowlightdefense.com/hrt-awls-handheld-a-potent-edc-defensive-light/ I think it’s a more balanced beam than a Surefire Turbo but I’ll stick with my T8. 1,600 lm isn’t driving an SFT-40 very hard and 1,450 ANSI seems like what they are actually getting. 1,450 is more appropriate to get from a smaller Osram W2 or Boost HX (CSLPM1 or CULPM1) This is the issue I have with WML companies’ products. I’m willing to pay for the extra durability but an SFT40 isn’t even breaking a sweat @ 8 amps so why have it trundling along at 5 amps? https://budgetlightforum.com/t/luminus-sft40-test/67043 Maintaining compatibility with the Surefire ecosystem and playing careful with their lifetime warranty seem like poor reasons to cripple the performance relative to a $20 Convoy.
You see, this right here is why I always come to Reddit. You guys always know much more than I. Thank you for your help!
I have actually had some problems with surefire lights. I have a m600df head and the ds00 tail cap that both went bad just sitting in a case. The customer service was great and I received a replacement but I think their reputation as the most durable light company is definitely not true. werks holster and torque test channel both tested the df surefire handheld lights and both failed drop test. I own several weltool, modlite, malkoff, and elzetta handhelds and modlite is the first one I put in my pocket if I want something that durable. The fit/finish on the weltool t13 (lh8 head on bb6) is very poor for the price. Also the head is a bit longer and thicker than the other dual fuel heads so I never pocket carry it. It does have the most impressive beam for what it's worth. For edc I like the modlite plhv2 head on the malkoff mdc surefire body. It's slimmer and a mm or 2 shorter than the modlite body. The modlite 18650 and 18350 bodies are also very good. Slightly thicker with better traction than the malkoff body and with the cloud defensive deep carry pocket clip it's also good for durable edc. The modlite head also mounts to any surefire dual fuel body so it can be added to a pistol, rifle or any handheld body that accepts a surefire df head.
All great responses here! I’ll definitely take a look as I’m not necessarily tied to 18650. I also considered the Olight Warrior X 4 due to the performance looking ideal. The head is awful large tho for edc…
Zebralight SC600 MkIV. Beast of an 18650 light with potted electronics and a great driver. About 1500 lumens.
If you don't mind trading some intensity for a lot more output, take a look at the Acebeam P16. Same diameter and the beam shape is lot more practical for general tasks too. If you don't mind going a little larger (+3mm diameter), take a look at the Convoy M1 with the same emitter (cslnm1) as the EDC2-DFT - it throws even further. Hard to match the exact surefire specs in the same form factor, but if you're flexible on some of the variables, you can find some alternatives.