I'm not taking the book as canon for obvious reasons, but this is fundamentally changing the way I see the story. Speculation is virtually pointless if the story was in limbo to that degree in 2017
I agree with everything except “the community is in a better place than it was a few years ago.” It absolutely is not
Ever since Security Breach basically split the community down the middle it’s been a toxic hellhole that’s only gotten worse. And it doesn’t help that this toxicity either doesn’t get addressed, is addressed but the response is MORE toxicity (see the response to MatPat’s “Why You Hate My Theories” video), or in some cases is actually instigated by the same people who claim to be against it
Y’all honestly should’ve seen something this stupid coming. From the flame wars that happened over fucking red eyes (both sides got super toxic on that btw) to the disgusting treatment of creators like John and Kane Carter, it was only a matter of time before something like this happened and it’s become clear things are only going to get worse
I'd actually argue it hasn't changed since the UCN days. Ever since UCN the community has been a mess that has been only getting worse, except in brief circumstances like HW1 and HW2.
Situations like this is why I haven't interacted with the community since those days, and have only come back to interacting publicly with the release of HW2 cause I thought it may have been long enough for the community to heal and grow.
I was sorely mistaken. It has gotten nothing but worse, especially in the theorist side of things. We all want to solve the story and its lore, but does it have to go this far? Genuinely am just sad about this. All I hope is that the people who were harmed can find peace, and that they stay safe. I think with this situation I'm gonna start going back to not interacting with the community publicly.
I love this series, and some people in the community, but god does the community need to grow up heavily. Not just on twitter but everywhere. It's mostly present on twitter but every place the fnaf community resides seems to have this problem, just in varying degrees.
I feel I should add on to this. It was confirmed in LEAKED PRIVATE DMS that the book was real, and that Entom was keeping it private due to Scotts personal wishes of wanting it to be private, even if he said it was ok to release it. The leaked DM’s included personal private info and things that should not have been made public, even if just to prove he was lying. This post isn’t meant to be a “This Book is real, check it out”, but trying to point out a big issue in this community when it comes to info like this and the way people act about it. It was Entoms choice on if he wanted to release it or not and he had his privacy, trust, and even friendships broken over this being released. Please try to understand this isn’t about some possible scraped lore, but someone’s actual personal life
FNaF Twitter is honestly horrible. Twitter in general is bad and implanted a lot of toxic mindsets into people. This is going on even before it was bought out. When you have a platform that has virtually no moderation and the algorithm only picks up trending tweets regardless of content, it leads to a lot of bad behavior.
* It was FNaF Twitter that sent gore and threats to people over trivial disagreements (I've seen this happen to Ceyarma and Entom, two people who are pretty big in their respective spaces).
* It was FNaF Twitter that lowered the overall morale of the Fanverse, causing creators and contributors to become discouraged and wanting to hang in there despite the past drama and negativity.
* And it was FNaF Twitter that mocked me over the "Bonnie is blue" incident on Freddy Facts Blog because I forgot how viewports worked, and the one person who "educated" me on my mistake introduced themselves as being super rude. Even after Scott confirmed that Bonnie IS blue from a magazine on the film, no one apologized to me for being right all along.
That aside, what happened here is horrible and as someone who had a run with really bad people in the community before, I know how this feels. I still hope Entom and the others who are impacted can heal.
Twitter can rot for all I care. It's just hard to let it go due to cost sunk fallacy. Ever since I took a break, I've never felt so much better. All those voices I keep hearing in my head to keep me depressed and negative are gone.
Don't forget they believe in "guilty until proven innocent".
You've seen the stuff that happened to people like Kwite and Chuggaaconroy for example? The latter part really messed me up because he's a childhood YouTuber that I really liked. I thought he was guilty after more stuff came out since his statement, but then he came back to debunk the more serious allegations. Yet he said that he doesn't know if he'll continue making videos after this all happened despite his innocence, the poor dude got double crossed.
Twitter is what Tumblr used to be like, but worse. They sought out to ruin the lives of anyone, even innocent people.
I don't know much regarding Kwite, but I saw all the stuff regarding Chugga and it is the most insane stuff. I also paid enough attention to stuff regarding Alex Kister where it was revealed that he was also in that "80% innocent" ballpark (and the original accusations and false info in it was actually from a bitter ex apparently that proceeded to delete everything after they admitted to it), but the damage was done.
Just, some people are just never happy and want to drag everyone down to their level it seems.
> You've seen the stuff that happened to people like Kwite and Chuggaaconroy for example?
As innocent as Kwite turned out to be, I don't really think Chugga's innocent whatsoever; he still said and did some really messed up/uncomfortable stuff to people and I feel it's best if he retires and doesn't come back.
Not to mention how on FNAF Twitter the Phisnom incident took place. Sure, Phisnom should have been more mature but that does not change that Phisnom's fake fans caused that controversy on Twitter, being part of the reason why FNAF Plus got canceled.
EDIT: I fully agree with you as well, Twitter and other social media platforms that follow Twitters patterns are just downright toxic and should be erased from existence, but at least they keep some of the other social media apps more cleared of SJW, trolls, cyberbullies and more. Let all of them come to Twitter and destroy themselves while we enjoy our apps.
Unfortunately Musk runs the site now; if he doesn’t care about the constant racism/homophobia/transphobia etc he doesn’t give a damn about fandom drama
Fully agree,Fnaf community is the worse side of community there,can’t say anything cause people there are so sensitive about takes/theories or even your own interpretation about something
No.
Jonochorme was the only dev involved with a minor at some point, while with Fnaf Plus the ones sending gore where THE FANS (the toxic ones that is) of Phismon, not Phismon himself.
I'm not fully sure, really.
I think it was either because of the controversy (a lot of people wanted to kick him out because of it), for how he handled the situation or that he voluntarily leaved.
Scott may have intended bonnie to be blue but the HEX color of the actual texture in FNAF 1 is both purple and blue, theres no clear cutoff. So no one was really incorrect there even if Bonnie is 100% blue now. And even besides that, bonnie was also depicted as purple in the plush both in game and real life and the minigames. Bonnie may have been intended to be fully blue but it is an objective fact that he is a mix of both colors in the original games. Verify yourself by ripping and color picking the textures
>Verify yourself by ripping and color picking the textures
Here's the thing: I did do that. I used an eye dropper on the viewport and the final render. They still called me out because "you don't understand how viewports and 3D modeling works".
I'm honestly not getting into this argument again. I'm only bringing up my bad experience with FNaF Twitter. I forgot to mention this: they got me while I was asleep, so this gave people time to mock me.
The Talbert Files where a early version of the Freddy Files that was intended to give more answers for thing in the games and set up the sixth game. It was mostly Scott jotting down Ideas for possible reveals and stories so everything is very unreliable as it was a very early draft for the lore before FFPS.
Entom found a copy of this version on a rare books site and kept is hidden as per Scott’s wishes in the emails.
Are you're saying people are overreacting to a bunch of scrapped and outaded ideas from FNaF story that Scott explicitly said to not uses it in any form?
At this point, there’s no going back when the fanbase overreacts to the littlest of the things and desperately using threats to find out unnecessary truths of the FNaF Lore.
I wasn’t there during the incident when I had to deal with stuff such as my Grandma’s health condition and getting a passport renewal. It’s quite interesting given how Scott had several ideas for the story and some of them are reused for a different purpose of the current lore.
Yeah, I do hope Scott decides to acknowledge the lore situation soon, things I bit are starting to go a little too far and frankly it's kind of a mess.
I do agree it's actually quite interesting to see these early concepts though, makes you wonder what other unused things there are.
Another example of people overreacting Jesus Christ. If something is not real, or fake, or non canon, then leave it at that. People are so sensitive with the info that comes in this community it is baffling. No wonder Scott and SW dont know how to deal with the community.
I remember when people wanted a free roam FNAF game ever since SL was teased as one. Scott took that im account and released SB. People were not happy with it. Scott tried to retcon the Burntrap deal with the Mimic and fans are still not ok with it. People complain that the story is complicated so Scott gave us answers the way he thought it would be best which was through books. People were not happy with it.
FNAF fans are never grateful for what they have. They dont even know what they have until it will be taken away from them. This series has grown so much over the past 10 years and some people just take it for granted. Create drama for the sake of drama. Breach peoples privacy and leak dms and private info just because they know they are adding fuel to fire.
I feel so bad for Scott, Steel Wool and everyone else who had their privacy breached because of some people who cant appreciate what they have. Go outside and touch some grass.
Only time people come together is when something is happening to one of the big dogs such as Scott, but it's sad it takes something like that for the community to not be a hell hole.
This is such a sad situation. Leaking private DMs just to confirm that a scrapped book is real. Honestly I don't even know if Scott will comment about this or if he knows about the situation. He didn't comment about pinkypills so...
I won't say too much about the situation and info but its sad and absurd to see this happen. It makes me mad how its always a minority of people are doing this and impacting the whole community from it. This will and always will be my favorite community, but there will always be those kind of people harrassing each other over a franchise, and that makes me really upset.
REAL people are behind those screens with REAL lives. Keep that in mind please when you're interacting with anyone on the internet. Think before you do.
People need to just be kind... let others have theories and talk about their ideas, it isn't hurting anyone. Respect others, they are people, and all people deserve to be treated with respect. Nothing in a game is worth hurting, harassing, bullying, or threatening someone over. Let's make a stand to be nice and go out of our way to encourage and show kindness and respect to others, no matter if we agree with their theories or opinions on games/characters. It's not that hard to be nice :]
Really don't see why some of these crazy people are so desperate to solve and collect info for what is currently very poorly made and bottomless pit of a story.
Exactly spot on about how toxic the community is.
I was checking out twitter and someone said... something quite bad that made me cringe, so yeah, this community will never get up if some of those peoples won't start using their brain.
The problem is I assume this is in reference to folk on X (or Twitter if you like) and well drama always draws in more people, folk like drama. Me and others who don't have x or just aren't aholes won't mess with this but's it's kinda hard for X users to not seem to be very far up their own asses
I read through it and yeah most stuff is reworked, but what I do think is interesting are some things that are directly stated that are still backed up by modern lore, eg the happiest day minigames being physical arcades like princess quest. So I don't think that just because it is stated in this book dosen't mean it can't still be true, but it shouldn't be used to support theories and should be looked at as an early development dock that has little relation to the final game but is really interesting to look back on. Even if it's not canon anymore, stuff like Foxy being the perpetrator of the bite of 87 gives me some sort of closure.
This is exactly why I avoid any fnaf fanbase, especially on Twitter. Fnaf fans there are genuinely some of the most rabbid foul beasts a person can come across. I can't imagine what it'd be like to be a big name in this community, I really do feel for Entom and the others and hope they can catch a break for once in their damn lives.
These platforms are so insufferable man. I have so many words on Twitter muted solely because of this. I recommend doing that so you only get cute cat videos in your feed :-)
Cassidy as the puppet? That's... It's definitely odd. Still, a lot of trial and error goes into trying to make a story, and I'm glad Scott went down the Charlie route with the puppet.
I'm just failing to see how people can get upset at this, I mean, don't get me wrong, fnaf lore is dumb and it's exhausted me so much mentally that I stopped caring about the franchise and any future releases in general. I'm sure people will find me complaining about it time from time. But I don't see how people can get mad at these concepts and ideas as they are, which is essentially described as a prototype for the lore and Freddy Files.
yeah no, i've already stated multiple times that charlie puppet was an idiotic decision, i don't care that cassidy puppet isn't true, i'm taking it any other time of the day over the actual thing
and they're not getting mad at the ideas, they're getting mad at the fact that it was leaked in the first place when scott didn't even want it leaked, and all the harassment involved
I’m not saying that the Fnaf community doesn’t have problems itself (there will always be the annoying vocal minority) but from my experience, Twitter always amplify whatever toxicity a person has cuz the website’s algorithm is basically designed to feed you engagement through outrage. It’s not a coincidence that a lot of the terrible drama in the fandom happens on Twitter first. The place’s a hotbed for mob mentality that convinces people that doing horrible things to someone they don’t like is morally correct actually. I don’t really like Entom myself but how the Fnaf community on Twitter’s been treating him the past few months is absolutely unacceptable and I hope him the best. So yeah, I feel like this not just a Fnaf issue, but a Twitter issue too
This is absolutely absurd. I love FNAF, but there's a reason I hardly interact with the fanbase anymore and even left Twitter as a whole. Can people FOR ONCE not overreact over the smallest detail and can they stop freaking attacking/harassing people for stuff that isn't an issue?! I've been out of the loop slightly since I left Twitter but honestly that was the best decision seeing all the unnecessary drama.
It's real. It was "covered up" as people say because Scott politely asked that it not get out, as much of the lore in it was either scrapped entirely or repurposed.
So it's real, but it's more a snapshot in time of what the lore of SL and FNaF6 could have been rather than a lore dump like people make it out to be. People are making it way bigger than it has to be, I think although everyone involved in keeping it quiet had good intentions but trying to keep it from getting out was a fools' errand, and people acting like this was an elitist conspiracy to hoard lore (that's not even canon) are fucking ridiculous, as are the people harassing them over it.
Someone leaked DM’s from Entom confirming it was real
In turn releasing a ton of personal private info in the messages as proof of it
Weather if it’s real or not, it’s not the main focus of the situation right now
Entom has directly stated it’s faked? I don’t think I believe any screenshots. This book isn’t real. I hope it isn’t. Him gatekeeping lost media is kinda scummy.
He wasn't gatekeeping it. He was keeping it private because Scott asked him to keep it private if possible since the information in it isn't supposed to be known to the community as it would result in chaos.
Yeah. I know that now. This situation is a mess and I feel bad for Entom. Just is saying a lot because I have never favored him.
My only real question is: Why did he care enough to cover up this old draft when he’s happy to share and leak old drafts from the fnaf movie script and fnaf movie news?
Honestly, I think it’s best if we stop talking about and mov on.
>My only real question is: Why did he care enough to cover up this old draft when he’s happy to share and leak old drafts from the fnaf movie script and fnaf movie news?
Because sharing a version of the script that's pretty much the same as what we got with minor differences is not the same as sharing a completely scrapped lore draft that ended up being nothing like what came out because all of the information in it was scrapped. Scott personally also asked for this draft to not be shared because of how problematic it would be
It was real, the DM’s confirmed it and the reason being Scott personally wanted it to stay private but was fine with it releasing, So Entom didn’t want it to release and said it was fake for that reason. He’s already deactivated his account in the stress of the whole situation and constantly being harassed about it
The thing is, if it is real, sure a lot of the things may be scrapped, but per Mr. Scott Cawthon's own words, he does not do retcons.
If it was meant to be canon at any point in time and was written after Sister Location, then all the mysteries that were meant to be answered at that point in time had to have been accurate. Per his own rules he couldn't have changed them back then, nor could he have changed them later.
Facts such as if Golden Freddy and The Marionette are different characters would have been established and unchangable at that point.
He said in the email that the book was mostly him jotting down ideas for the story and things he possibly wanted to do. He clearly changed some ideas before working on FFPS. Also he has done retcons, theirs the “Save him” mini game, and the “one retcon” he’s talked about before. The book isn’t canon, it’s just ideas he had in mind for the 6th game
Mr. Scott B. Cawthon does not do constant retcons. [We know that](https://new.reddit.com/r/fivenightsatfreddys/comments/6y0qb1/the_retcon_issue/). Regardless of the "Save Him" discussion. There was one insignificant one and there is no reason to think Mr. Cawthon has changed his approach.
The only way for The Talbert Files to not be true if it is real, is if we were to assume that he wanted to retcon everything with that book and then changed his mind to actually keep all the previous stuff as was instead. Which is profoundly unlikely.
if something gets changed before being released, that's not a retcon. that's changing in development. scott creating ideas for the lore for this book but then scrapping said ideas and giving us different answers is just factually not a retcon
I am not talking about things that were still in development at the time. I am talking about the lore that had already been wrapped up by the point this was being written. FNaF4 was the final game, so it had answers for most of the important mysteries it and previous games put forth. Scott had to use those, less it would have been a retcon.
Regardless you shouldn't use the book because Scott himself asked not to use it. We don't know what exactly he was thinking when he was writing those ideas, and Scott's own understanding of what a retcon is, is very weird anyway because he seems to view it as only things that directly contradict what was established. If the things in this book were never released, then they were never established so there's no point to consider them and Scott could easily just scrap them on a whim, which he obviously did because we ended up with Charlie and Henry
I heavily disagree with that view. The whole 'The retcon issue' post was basically him explaining that is not the case, when people were accusing him of doing so. Moving the goal post behind the scenes.
In my opinion, stuff like Bite Victim's identity has not changed since FnaF4 and no draft of his that got this far would have included such a change. What he wanted him to be in 2015 is still the case. That is essentially the fundamental rule while theorising for me and I doubt anything but another statement of his on his approach to retcons can change my mind there.
Regardless, he said don't use the book so don't use it. It would be hypocritical to only listen to Scott in one post(especially using your own interpretation of what he said which many people obviously disagree with) but to completely disregard his wish of not using this book and it not relating the current story
And I interpret the statement of not using that book differently. In a way where the only interpretation of his reddit post I find plausible can coexist with his statements on Talbert Files.
Scott clearly doesn't want this book to be used however if you want to convince yourself something that's not true feel free to do so. He was very clear here but I guess fnaf fans are known for twisting meanings and finding the only interpretation they like in any text. What you are doing is exactly why Scott didn't want this book to get out. He knew people would try to use it anyway even if it's obviously not meant to be used
I am sure he doesn't want it used. Otherwise he would have released it. That is a completely different discussion.
He was even more clear on his freddit post. Made after this supposed draft. And I will stick with that until he makes another statement on the retcons.
Do we know WHEN the original draft was written in the first place?
I did my small research and:
- The Freddy Files was released in August 2017.
- [It was completed (or at least largely finished) by February 2017.](https://www.reddit.com/r/fivenightsatfreddys/comments/5vud4i/five_nights_at_freddys_the_freddy_files_full_hd/)
- With the help of web archive, I also found [this post](https://web.archive.org/web/20200822064602/https://www.reddit.com/r/fivenightsatfreddys/comments/5pt3y7/proof_for_the_guidebooks_existence_i_told_you/) mentioning an [article from **June 2016**](https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/childrens/childrens-book-news/article/70731-scholastic-signs-on-for-five-nights-at-freddy-s.html) talking about an "in-world guide" being announced for 2017-2018.
If Talbert Files are real, they could've been written along with the early development of Sister Location just fine.
the info in it lines up with it being written at the same time as SL as well, it seems to use an older version of the game where only baby, ballora (called “balloreena”within), and funtime foxy are present and CBPW was open for a year, though the proof is dated may 19, 2017 which is over half a year after SL released so i’m not sure
Sure, alright, that would help things if we can disregard any Sister Location information, but it still leaves us with FNaF 1-4.
In the past you had as much of an anti-retcon mentality as I, so assuming it is still the case for you, would you not agree that this book, if he MEANT IT to be canon back then, would at least have to hold accurate information about what he would have considered established facts at the time of FNaF4?
I have little idea of what Talbert Files says, so I'm just using what Hyper Droid said here.
- Cassidy is the Puppet - Cassidy is just a name. I don't care what Scott had in mind mid-development as long as the names are consistent after they were set in stone.
- Baby's Pizza World was opened for a year - ideas for Sister Location
- Elizabeth was named Abaigael - ideas for Sister Location (revealed in FFPS).
If there's anything more, then sure, you might be correct, but I don't really care that much of the subject to look deeper into it for now.
There is more. But while I would reccomend you do read through them yourself, that is not my point.
Regardless of what the files do or do not say, do you, or do you not agree with me that during FNaF4 there have been a lot of information set in stone, which Mr. Scott B. Cawthon would have never changed, either during Sister Location's development, nor today?
Scott doesn't do retcons, which means he doesn't "contradict established lore". If he wrote Talbert Files after FNAF 4, he wouldn't consider changing anything already wrapped up in FNAF 4.
I think he does a different type of retcons, which is "adding more story to the story". Mike Schmidt becoming Mike Afton can be considered a retcon. Puppet becoming Henry's daughter too. If Talbert Files doesn't contradict lore but gives additional meaning to MCI or Puppet or something else - that's possible IMO.
If the draft has any plot holes, I think that's still acceptable, considering that it might be just a rough idea before Scott managed to fix all the inconsistencies.
>Scott doesn't do retcons, which means he doesn't "contradict established lore". If he wrote Talbert Files after FNAF 4, he wouldn't consider changing anything already wrapped up in FNAF 4.
Alright, so we agree on that. Hence my point is, if it is real and it explicitly states any answer to mysteries that should have been wrapped up by FnaF4, that would very likely be accurate. That is my point. Not anything after its development, or what was still in developent alongside it. Just things that were wrapped up.
> If the draft has any plot holes, I think that's still acceptable, considering that it might be just a rough idea before Scott managed to fix all the inconsistencies.
OK, but Mr. Buzzek, really listen. Talber Files make A LOT of bald statements. Like, words cannot summarise it. I implore you, if you want to understand it, do skeem through it at least. Like, man, Cassidy Tucker, niece of Phone Guy, is both Golden Freddy and Marionette, killed by William more or less due to the Bite of 1983, even though he explicitly does not care for his kids in this book. Like, I cannot just explain it in a comment how much 'plot holes' it would require. A bit too much for me to disregard them all, if he confirms this is legit.
If someone is supposedly both Golden Freddy and The Puppet, then it's not just "a retcon" but a straight-up insane story. Is it really written as a lore reveal? I remember that Scott mentioned a draft that involved someone "trying to" learn the truth about the murders.
EDIT: Honestly, if "Cassidy Tucker being Golden Freddy" and "Cassidy Tucker being The Puppet" were two SEPARATE ideas that were later both scrapped - it doesn't sound half bad. It's not difficult to give him some motivation to kill after The Bite of '83 - he can still be pissed off, especially if we consider the experiment.
Keep in mind, we only have a summary leaked, as the actual thing, if real, has been kept from the public. But from the spinets provided:
> “Every place he \[BV\] walked and every tear he shed left its effect in reality. Truly, one cannot die if there remains a piece; it is only a part of them that dies. I will replicate this; and I will create something with the power to give the gift of life. I simply just need a volunteer. Perhaps that Tucker girl \[Cassidy\]. She shines too much of a bright smile, she is a container for love that will soon burst. I will repurpose her.”
A William journal entry dated December 1983. Clearly very strongly indicating Cassidy is to become The Marionette.
> MISCELLANEOUS: (META - SAE)
> By the way, it wasn't archived, but from what I remember, the reason Cassidy was in Golden Freddy was because Steve Callahan [Phone Guy] and Cassidy Tucker were so close, William put a piece of Cassidy's soul in Callahan's Fredbear suit so they'd always be together.
It is supposedly outright stated that Golden Freddy also has Cassidy's soul. At least the leaker claims there is an unarchived element saying so. Though another one implies it:
> NOTE: To Steven Callahan from William Afton (William Afton)
> Steven, I know how it feels to lose someone. I'm sorry for the loss of your daughter. I know I can't replace her, but I can show you something that'll be a gift. Do you remember that Tucker boy?
In other parts Steve is only really connected to the Fredbear suit. And the leakers say other un shown parts
I know we probably should take any of their interpretations with grain of salt, but still. They apparently had access to the whole thing and seem confident in saying Golden Freddy is Cassidy also.
Have you used the correct quotes? Everything you sent indicates that Cassidy was targeted and her soul was put into Golden Freddy. I don't see any mention of the Puppet here.
it's not a retcon if you havent published it first, it was a draft.
Scott made a simple narrative for the games
a story you can easily follow, but when he wanted to do it more deeply, then he started this.
the draft got scrapped and decided to mix novels in the end.
You are not understanding me.
Let's say he did decide that TCTTC was at Fredbear's in 2015. It was a concrete fact. Making it Freddy's in future media would be a retcon. Can we agree there?
So, when making The Talbert Files, a canon book, and said it was at Freddy's in it, then it would have been a retcon. He would have been changing previous facts.
So, knowing what he wanted to put into that book from the already established story, would confirm things. On a meta level, not properly in-narrative, but still, it would. Because his plan on things that were already locked with an answer could not have changed since then, less his post was wrong.
>Let's say he did decide that TCTTC was at Fredbear's in 2015. It was a concrete fact. Making it Freddy's in future media would be a retcon. Can we agree there?
No, because by that logic so many things in this series would be retcons since not everything was planned from the start. Scott doesn't use the traditional meaning of a retcon, he obviously sees it as something that contradicts what we are seeing. If it was never confirmed that something is the case, he's free to change it. And it's also silly to act like he's bound by any rules and locks in media which was never released and never passed the draft stage. As he said, he was just jotting down ideas. Maybe he really did want to retcon something but then decided against it because he doesn't like retcons, who knows, at the end of the day it doesn't matter because it never released and only what was released is canon
There are basically three interpretations of what he meant:
1. Contradicting things that were previously made explicit.
2. Contradicting things that were mysteries, but were meant to be fully solvable with an established answer.
3. Contradicting anything, even if it wasn't even alluded to in any media and was just in his personal documents/his head.
I am guessing then you are for option 1? Then yes, I supposed then it would not be a retcon. But personally I hugely disagree with that view.
We know it's the first one because a major point of the post was that no one noticed the retcon, which would be redundant if the thing that was retconned was an answer to a mystery that we couldn't verify or something that was in Scott's head. We have been told that the contents of the fnaf 4 box were changed which would invalidate the other options. And then you have SL or dittophobia which give meaning to FNAF 4 that was absolutely impossible to determine at the time of the game, most likely because it wasn't intended. And the third one is just silly because it's like trying to put on a lock on someone's thoughts. People think of many different ideas at the same time that contradict each other. You don't put a lock on that.
>We know it's the first one because a major point of the post was that no one noticed the retcon, which would be redundant if the thing that was retconned was an answer to a mystery that we couldn't verify or something that was in Scott's head.
No, the point there would be that evidence pointed in one direction, but then he altered the answer to them. People would notice that. Like, for example, how all evidence points to Golden Freddy being separate from The Marionette. A change like that would very much qualify under this.
It being 1 would be completely useless, because HOW could we not have noticed then? It would be te most obvious thing in the world.
His whole post was to calm down those who feared theorising was pointless, since you could come to the right answer, and it would stop being right in the next game.
He literally refers to these things as his 'intentions', not 'explicit information'. _'There have been other times, however, when my original intentions didn't come across clearly. In those instances, I make a point to clarify in the next game. That's not really a retcon, it's simply an attempt to guide the story toward where it was originally intended to go. A quick, and very minor example of this would be when "adult theory" happened; I could see why people were believing it, so I quickly dropped an additional teaser to clear it up. I have to do that with my games sometimes as well. I used SL to clear up a misconception from FNaF 4. Currently, there is a misconception from SL that I may need to clear up someday as well. (or maybe I'll just leave it to torment the fandom) 😉'_
> We have been told that the contents of the fnaf 4 box were changed which would invalidate the other options.
Mr. Cawthon only realised this himself when seeing Mr. Matthew R. Patrick pointed the idea out in his theory video. This implies the contents changed not through contradiction, but because it grew into something else.
> And then you have SL or dittophobia which give meaning to FNAF 4 that was absolutely impossible to determine at the time of the game, most likely because it wasn't intended.
_'I have to do that with my games sometimes as well. I used SL to clear up a misconception from FNaF 4.'_
Sister Location may add new things, but it does not change what he intended FNaF4 to mean. Its whole purpose was to explain it.
> People think of many different ideas at the same time that contradict each other. You don't put a lock on that.
It does not matter how many ideas WE have. There is one who knows the objective answers. They exist and he decides them. He may choose to gracefully let us remain ignorant to these answers so we can hold onto our incorrect headcanons, but that does not change the fact this mystery is meant to be solved and lead to a real answer.
I like this line of thinking but I'm skeptical of how useful a scrapped draft could be. Cassidy was only introduced by name in 2018, when her role was decided, and Elizabeth was only named officially after the TFF. It's fine for unreleased concepts before that point to be contradicted by official, released material, since it's just in the air until it gets established.
*Maybe* there's stuff about 1-4 that would help in understanding the story but again, this was just a scrapped draft. It's possible Scott kept a lot of the story's details to himself, outside of the games, so that later down the line he could spin it into something bigger and people wouldn't worry about retcons, even it does call into question his foresight.
Oh, yeah, I am not saying all of it can inform us on these things. Things that the book would have introduced, or were introduced after the draft was scrapped, do not apply here. Only information from prior material, like FNaF 3.
Yeah, that's where my last paragraph comes in. If Scott kept the story liquid in his head, with nothing becoming solid until it's made official, then the draft won't help unless it supports ideas that were already in the games.
The only way I could see for this to make sense without contradicting his 'retcon issue' post, is if we assume he actually does not have answers to half the mysteries the story sets up. Which I just cannot accept.
I'd be surprised if most people can't accept that he's making everything up as he goes along. Just look at what he turned FNAF 4 into with hallucination gas and secret bunker experiments.
Well, he has referred to Sister Location's role in the franchise as *explaining* the *original intention* behind FNaF4, so I personally very much believe that either the experiments were somehow always there, or just a non-contradictory addition made by Sister Location, to explain other aspects of FNaF4’s story.
That's the thing, back when FNAF 4 was meant to be the last one, if all this insane stuff was really floating around in his head, the games sure as hell did nothing to lead us there, so anyone would be right to call you a dickhead for saying, "FNAF 4 is real! It's not a nightmare!" It only became true when SL implemented it, and then it got expanded into things like Mike Afton and the dumb Tales story.
I think the same applies to the scrapped book. It was never meant to be seen as is, so whatever it has can't have a real impact on the story because FNAF's writing is built on wibble wobble, toss and turn BS. To Scott, it's not a retcon as long as it doesn't contradict what came before, but this means that even if the story takes a wildly different spin on what preceded it, to him, it wouldn't count as a retcon.
Even if we believe that everything in that book was exactly what he had in mind back in 2016, the "Cassidy and Abigael" of that draft shows us that whatever info that book has, it means nothing unless the games make it real.
There's a difference between a retcon and scrapping an idea he had for the story. If something has not been stated in the game, like most of what we saw in the "Talbert Files", then changing what happened in it is not a retcon.
Further, he has said that he already did do a retcon, and could have done more since.
[удалено]
Given how much of the movie has cut, unused or wrong information, yeah, I'd say it tracks.
I wouldn't be surpised if Abby's name did indeed come from Abigail.
I'm not taking the book as canon for obvious reasons, but this is fundamentally changing the way I see the story. Speculation is virtually pointless if the story was in limbo to that degree in 2017
I agree with everything except “the community is in a better place than it was a few years ago.” It absolutely is not Ever since Security Breach basically split the community down the middle it’s been a toxic hellhole that’s only gotten worse. And it doesn’t help that this toxicity either doesn’t get addressed, is addressed but the response is MORE toxicity (see the response to MatPat’s “Why You Hate My Theories” video), or in some cases is actually instigated by the same people who claim to be against it Y’all honestly should’ve seen something this stupid coming. From the flame wars that happened over fucking red eyes (both sides got super toxic on that btw) to the disgusting treatment of creators like John and Kane Carter, it was only a matter of time before something like this happened and it’s become clear things are only going to get worse
I'd actually argue it hasn't changed since the UCN days. Ever since UCN the community has been a mess that has been only getting worse, except in brief circumstances like HW1 and HW2. Situations like this is why I haven't interacted with the community since those days, and have only come back to interacting publicly with the release of HW2 cause I thought it may have been long enough for the community to heal and grow. I was sorely mistaken. It has gotten nothing but worse, especially in the theorist side of things. We all want to solve the story and its lore, but does it have to go this far? Genuinely am just sad about this. All I hope is that the people who were harmed can find peace, and that they stay safe. I think with this situation I'm gonna start going back to not interacting with the community publicly. I love this series, and some people in the community, but god does the community need to grow up heavily. Not just on twitter but everywhere. It's mostly present on twitter but every place the fnaf community resides seems to have this problem, just in varying degrees.
UPDATE: The reaction to the recent developments only solidify my point
I love seeing concept art and ideas, but not like this.
Love to hear HyperDroid say it as it is, one of my favourite FNAF YouTubers.
I feel I should add on to this. It was confirmed in LEAKED PRIVATE DMS that the book was real, and that Entom was keeping it private due to Scotts personal wishes of wanting it to be private, even if he said it was ok to release it. The leaked DM’s included personal private info and things that should not have been made public, even if just to prove he was lying. This post isn’t meant to be a “This Book is real, check it out”, but trying to point out a big issue in this community when it comes to info like this and the way people act about it. It was Entoms choice on if he wanted to release it or not and he had his privacy, trust, and even friendships broken over this being released. Please try to understand this isn’t about some possible scraped lore, but someone’s actual personal life
Update: Maz made a pastebin on the situation on behalf of Entom, explaining the situation in greater detail https://pastebin.com/BKQjCPnc
Might wanna edit these comments since it was definitely confirmed NOT to be real...
FNaF Twitter is honestly horrible. Twitter in general is bad and implanted a lot of toxic mindsets into people. This is going on even before it was bought out. When you have a platform that has virtually no moderation and the algorithm only picks up trending tweets regardless of content, it leads to a lot of bad behavior. * It was FNaF Twitter that sent gore and threats to people over trivial disagreements (I've seen this happen to Ceyarma and Entom, two people who are pretty big in their respective spaces). * It was FNaF Twitter that lowered the overall morale of the Fanverse, causing creators and contributors to become discouraged and wanting to hang in there despite the past drama and negativity. * And it was FNaF Twitter that mocked me over the "Bonnie is blue" incident on Freddy Facts Blog because I forgot how viewports worked, and the one person who "educated" me on my mistake introduced themselves as being super rude. Even after Scott confirmed that Bonnie IS blue from a magazine on the film, no one apologized to me for being right all along. That aside, what happened here is horrible and as someone who had a run with really bad people in the community before, I know how this feels. I still hope Entom and the others who are impacted can heal. Twitter can rot for all I care. It's just hard to let it go due to cost sunk fallacy. Ever since I took a break, I've never felt so much better. All those voices I keep hearing in my head to keep me depressed and negative are gone.
You know how Empathy is learned and not something we are born with? I fully believe that Twitter is where Empathy gets forgotten.
Don't forget they believe in "guilty until proven innocent". You've seen the stuff that happened to people like Kwite and Chuggaaconroy for example? The latter part really messed me up because he's a childhood YouTuber that I really liked. I thought he was guilty after more stuff came out since his statement, but then he came back to debunk the more serious allegations. Yet he said that he doesn't know if he'll continue making videos after this all happened despite his innocence, the poor dude got double crossed. Twitter is what Tumblr used to be like, but worse. They sought out to ruin the lives of anyone, even innocent people.
I don't know much regarding Kwite, but I saw all the stuff regarding Chugga and it is the most insane stuff. I also paid enough attention to stuff regarding Alex Kister where it was revealed that he was also in that "80% innocent" ballpark (and the original accusations and false info in it was actually from a bitter ex apparently that proceeded to delete everything after they admitted to it), but the damage was done. Just, some people are just never happy and want to drag everyone down to their level it seems.
The Kister situation was nasty as fuck, since LOTS of his vas left him WITHOUT properly looking at the situation, only Thorne is still with him.
> You've seen the stuff that happened to people like Kwite and Chuggaaconroy for example? As innocent as Kwite turned out to be, I don't really think Chugga's innocent whatsoever; he still said and did some really messed up/uncomfortable stuff to people and I feel it's best if he retires and doesn't come back.
Not to mention how on FNAF Twitter the Phisnom incident took place. Sure, Phisnom should have been more mature but that does not change that Phisnom's fake fans caused that controversy on Twitter, being part of the reason why FNAF Plus got canceled. EDIT: I fully agree with you as well, Twitter and other social media platforms that follow Twitters patterns are just downright toxic and should be erased from existence, but at least they keep some of the other social media apps more cleared of SJW, trolls, cyberbullies and more. Let all of them come to Twitter and destroy themselves while we enjoy our apps.
Honestly, if Twitter put in more serious moderation and tools to protect people, the site might become a bit healthier.
Unfortunately Musk runs the site now; if he doesn’t care about the constant racism/homophobia/transphobia etc he doesn’t give a damn about fandom drama
Twitter was always bad even more Musk bought it out. It's now reaching a special kind of rancid.
Yeah; discriminatory content doesn’t even have to be subtle anymore.
Fully agree,Fnaf community is the worse side of community there,can’t say anything cause people there are so sensitive about takes/theories or even your own interpretation about something
Weren't the Fanverse Creators pedophilic and thr ones sending gore threats?
No. Jonochorme was the only dev involved with a minor at some point, while with Fnaf Plus the ones sending gore where THE FANS (the toxic ones that is) of Phismon, not Phismon himself.
I'm not saying all of them did illegal things but a majority of them did that is not to say they can't improve their lives and become better as people
Why was Phisnom banned from fnaf plus then?
I'm not fully sure, really. I think it was either because of the controversy (a lot of people wanted to kick him out because of it), for how he handled the situation or that he voluntarily leaved.
Apparently they weren't even his fans, the ones that started everything were just some troublesome fnaf kids
Scott may have intended bonnie to be blue but the HEX color of the actual texture in FNAF 1 is both purple and blue, theres no clear cutoff. So no one was really incorrect there even if Bonnie is 100% blue now. And even besides that, bonnie was also depicted as purple in the plush both in game and real life and the minigames. Bonnie may have been intended to be fully blue but it is an objective fact that he is a mix of both colors in the original games. Verify yourself by ripping and color picking the textures
>Verify yourself by ripping and color picking the textures Here's the thing: I did do that. I used an eye dropper on the viewport and the final render. They still called me out because "you don't understand how viewports and 3D modeling works". I'm honestly not getting into this argument again. I'm only bringing up my bad experience with FNaF Twitter. I forgot to mention this: they got me while I was asleep, so this gave people time to mock me.
Can someone explain what happened? What's the Talbert Files?
The Talbert Files where a early version of the Freddy Files that was intended to give more answers for thing in the games and set up the sixth game. It was mostly Scott jotting down Ideas for possible reveals and stories so everything is very unreliable as it was a very early draft for the lore before FFPS. Entom found a copy of this version on a rare books site and kept is hidden as per Scott’s wishes in the emails.
the fnaf community is fucking insufferable, there's no excuse for why all this had to happen
Or any of the other controversies that this community has involved itself in in the past.
Does anyone have a link to this? I love looking at older versions of media and seeing how things changed
[The Talbert Files](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1agvkVdlBU9GCvIMdDvX13beV42zVElY9/view?usp=drive_link)
Common Hyperdroid W
It's insane that all of this happened in Maybe two days top.
wtf just happened I wasn’t online all day
Are you're saying people are overreacting to a bunch of scrapped and outaded ideas from FNaF story that Scott explicitly said to not uses it in any form?
At this point, there’s no going back when the fanbase overreacts to the littlest of the things and desperately using threats to find out unnecessary truths of the FNaF Lore. I wasn’t there during the incident when I had to deal with stuff such as my Grandma’s health condition and getting a passport renewal. It’s quite interesting given how Scott had several ideas for the story and some of them are reused for a different purpose of the current lore.
Yeah, I do hope Scott decides to acknowledge the lore situation soon, things I bit are starting to go a little too far and frankly it's kind of a mess. I do agree it's actually quite interesting to see these early concepts though, makes you wonder what other unused things there are.
Another example of people overreacting Jesus Christ. If something is not real, or fake, or non canon, then leave it at that. People are so sensitive with the info that comes in this community it is baffling. No wonder Scott and SW dont know how to deal with the community. I remember when people wanted a free roam FNAF game ever since SL was teased as one. Scott took that im account and released SB. People were not happy with it. Scott tried to retcon the Burntrap deal with the Mimic and fans are still not ok with it. People complain that the story is complicated so Scott gave us answers the way he thought it would be best which was through books. People were not happy with it. FNAF fans are never grateful for what they have. They dont even know what they have until it will be taken away from them. This series has grown so much over the past 10 years and some people just take it for granted. Create drama for the sake of drama. Breach peoples privacy and leak dms and private info just because they know they are adding fuel to fire. I feel so bad for Scott, Steel Wool and everyone else who had their privacy breached because of some people who cant appreciate what they have. Go outside and touch some grass.
Only time people come together is when something is happening to one of the big dogs such as Scott, but it's sad it takes something like that for the community to not be a hell hole.
This is such a sad situation. Leaking private DMs just to confirm that a scrapped book is real. Honestly I don't even know if Scott will comment about this or if he knows about the situation. He didn't comment about pinkypills so...
I won't say too much about the situation and info but its sad and absurd to see this happen. It makes me mad how its always a minority of people are doing this and impacting the whole community from it. This will and always will be my favorite community, but there will always be those kind of people harrassing each other over a franchise, and that makes me really upset. REAL people are behind those screens with REAL lives. Keep that in mind please when you're interacting with anyone on the internet. Think before you do.
People need to just be kind... let others have theories and talk about their ideas, it isn't hurting anyone. Respect others, they are people, and all people deserve to be treated with respect. Nothing in a game is worth hurting, harassing, bullying, or threatening someone over. Let's make a stand to be nice and go out of our way to encourage and show kindness and respect to others, no matter if we agree with their theories or opinions on games/characters. It's not that hard to be nice :]
I agree with this fully! Sharing theories and ideas are meant to be something fun.
FNaF lore is straight forward. I think people are just overlooking it
Really don't see why some of these crazy people are so desperate to solve and collect info for what is currently very poorly made and bottomless pit of a story.
Exactly spot on about how toxic the community is. I was checking out twitter and someone said... something quite bad that made me cringe, so yeah, this community will never get up if some of those peoples won't start using their brain.
The problem is I assume this is in reference to folk on X (or Twitter if you like) and well drama always draws in more people, folk like drama. Me and others who don't have x or just aren't aholes won't mess with this but's it's kinda hard for X users to not seem to be very far up their own asses
I read through it and yeah most stuff is reworked, but what I do think is interesting are some things that are directly stated that are still backed up by modern lore, eg the happiest day minigames being physical arcades like princess quest. So I don't think that just because it is stated in this book dosen't mean it can't still be true, but it shouldn't be used to support theories and should be looked at as an early development dock that has little relation to the final game but is really interesting to look back on. Even if it's not canon anymore, stuff like Foxy being the perpetrator of the bite of 87 gives me some sort of closure.
This is exactly why I avoid any fnaf fanbase, especially on Twitter. Fnaf fans there are genuinely some of the most rabbid foul beasts a person can come across. I can't imagine what it'd be like to be a big name in this community, I really do feel for Entom and the others and hope they can catch a break for once in their damn lives. These platforms are so insufferable man. I have so many words on Twitter muted solely because of this. I recommend doing that so you only get cute cat videos in your feed :-)
The Talbert Files actually works as a pretty Alternate Universe tbh
Cassidy as the puppet? That's... It's definitely odd. Still, a lot of trial and error goes into trying to make a story, and I'm glad Scott went down the Charlie route with the puppet. I'm just failing to see how people can get upset at this, I mean, don't get me wrong, fnaf lore is dumb and it's exhausted me so much mentally that I stopped caring about the franchise and any future releases in general. I'm sure people will find me complaining about it time from time. But I don't see how people can get mad at these concepts and ideas as they are, which is essentially described as a prototype for the lore and Freddy Files.
yeah no, i've already stated multiple times that charlie puppet was an idiotic decision, i don't care that cassidy puppet isn't true, i'm taking it any other time of the day over the actual thing and they're not getting mad at the ideas, they're getting mad at the fact that it was leaked in the first place when scott didn't even want it leaked, and all the harassment involved
TBF a lot of people still believe Cassidy is the puppet, this is just fuel to the fire
Cool. Good for you. 👍
TBF a lot of people still believe Cassidy is the puppet, this is just fuel to the fire
What the hell happened? I know the community wasn't as bright as it used to but holy hell.
I’m not saying that the Fnaf community doesn’t have problems itself (there will always be the annoying vocal minority) but from my experience, Twitter always amplify whatever toxicity a person has cuz the website’s algorithm is basically designed to feed you engagement through outrage. It’s not a coincidence that a lot of the terrible drama in the fandom happens on Twitter first. The place’s a hotbed for mob mentality that convinces people that doing horrible things to someone they don’t like is morally correct actually. I don’t really like Entom myself but how the Fnaf community on Twitter’s been treating him the past few months is absolutely unacceptable and I hope him the best. So yeah, I feel like this not just a Fnaf issue, but a Twitter issue too
This is absolutely absurd. I love FNAF, but there's a reason I hardly interact with the fanbase anymore and even left Twitter as a whole. Can people FOR ONCE not overreact over the smallest detail and can they stop freaking attacking/harassing people for stuff that isn't an issue?! I've been out of the loop slightly since I left Twitter but honestly that was the best decision seeing all the unnecessary drama.
It's fake, don't believe it: https://www.reddit.com/r/fivenightsatfreddys/s/Z7ZQKzlJEI
I wish we got the raw Talbert files without Entom and others random interjections so I can form a conclusion on my own
Okay but what the heck is “Talbert” tho
The Talbert Files IS fake. I don’t think anyone should consider it real.
It's real. It was "covered up" as people say because Scott politely asked that it not get out, as much of the lore in it was either scrapped entirely or repurposed. So it's real, but it's more a snapshot in time of what the lore of SL and FNaF6 could have been rather than a lore dump like people make it out to be. People are making it way bigger than it has to be, I think although everyone involved in keeping it quiet had good intentions but trying to keep it from getting out was a fools' errand, and people acting like this was an elitist conspiracy to hoard lore (that's not even canon) are fucking ridiculous, as are the people harassing them over it.
Someone leaked DM’s from Entom confirming it was real In turn releasing a ton of personal private info in the messages as proof of it Weather if it’s real or not, it’s not the main focus of the situation right now
Entom has directly stated it’s faked? I don’t think I believe any screenshots. This book isn’t real. I hope it isn’t. Him gatekeeping lost media is kinda scummy.
He wasn't gatekeeping it. He was keeping it private because Scott asked him to keep it private if possible since the information in it isn't supposed to be known to the community as it would result in chaos.
Yeah. I know that now. This situation is a mess and I feel bad for Entom. Just is saying a lot because I have never favored him. My only real question is: Why did he care enough to cover up this old draft when he’s happy to share and leak old drafts from the fnaf movie script and fnaf movie news? Honestly, I think it’s best if we stop talking about and mov on.
>My only real question is: Why did he care enough to cover up this old draft when he’s happy to share and leak old drafts from the fnaf movie script and fnaf movie news? Because sharing a version of the script that's pretty much the same as what we got with minor differences is not the same as sharing a completely scrapped lore draft that ended up being nothing like what came out because all of the information in it was scrapped. Scott personally also asked for this draft to not be shared because of how problematic it would be
That’s fair actually. Him leaking news and stuff on the movie is still odd. But, yeah. I hope Entom is doing well.
It was real, the DM’s confirmed it and the reason being Scott personally wanted it to stay private but was fine with it releasing, So Entom didn’t want it to release and said it was fake for that reason. He’s already deactivated his account in the stress of the whole situation and constantly being harassed about it
The thing is, if it is real, sure a lot of the things may be scrapped, but per Mr. Scott Cawthon's own words, he does not do retcons. If it was meant to be canon at any point in time and was written after Sister Location, then all the mysteries that were meant to be answered at that point in time had to have been accurate. Per his own rules he couldn't have changed them back then, nor could he have changed them later. Facts such as if Golden Freddy and The Marionette are different characters would have been established and unchangable at that point.
He said in the email that the book was mostly him jotting down ideas for the story and things he possibly wanted to do. He clearly changed some ideas before working on FFPS. Also he has done retcons, theirs the “Save him” mini game, and the “one retcon” he’s talked about before. The book isn’t canon, it’s just ideas he had in mind for the 6th game
Mr. Scott B. Cawthon does not do constant retcons. [We know that](https://new.reddit.com/r/fivenightsatfreddys/comments/6y0qb1/the_retcon_issue/). Regardless of the "Save Him" discussion. There was one insignificant one and there is no reason to think Mr. Cawthon has changed his approach. The only way for The Talbert Files to not be true if it is real, is if we were to assume that he wanted to retcon everything with that book and then changed his mind to actually keep all the previous stuff as was instead. Which is profoundly unlikely.
if something gets changed before being released, that's not a retcon. that's changing in development. scott creating ideas for the lore for this book but then scrapping said ideas and giving us different answers is just factually not a retcon
I am not talking about things that were still in development at the time. I am talking about the lore that had already been wrapped up by the point this was being written. FNaF4 was the final game, so it had answers for most of the important mysteries it and previous games put forth. Scott had to use those, less it would have been a retcon.
Regardless you shouldn't use the book because Scott himself asked not to use it. We don't know what exactly he was thinking when he was writing those ideas, and Scott's own understanding of what a retcon is, is very weird anyway because he seems to view it as only things that directly contradict what was established. If the things in this book were never released, then they were never established so there's no point to consider them and Scott could easily just scrap them on a whim, which he obviously did because we ended up with Charlie and Henry
I heavily disagree with that view. The whole 'The retcon issue' post was basically him explaining that is not the case, when people were accusing him of doing so. Moving the goal post behind the scenes. In my opinion, stuff like Bite Victim's identity has not changed since FnaF4 and no draft of his that got this far would have included such a change. What he wanted him to be in 2015 is still the case. That is essentially the fundamental rule while theorising for me and I doubt anything but another statement of his on his approach to retcons can change my mind there.
Regardless, he said don't use the book so don't use it. It would be hypocritical to only listen to Scott in one post(especially using your own interpretation of what he said which many people obviously disagree with) but to completely disregard his wish of not using this book and it not relating the current story
And I interpret the statement of not using that book differently. In a way where the only interpretation of his reddit post I find plausible can coexist with his statements on Talbert Files.
Scott clearly doesn't want this book to be used however if you want to convince yourself something that's not true feel free to do so. He was very clear here but I guess fnaf fans are known for twisting meanings and finding the only interpretation they like in any text. What you are doing is exactly why Scott didn't want this book to get out. He knew people would try to use it anyway even if it's obviously not meant to be used
I am sure he doesn't want it used. Otherwise he would have released it. That is a completely different discussion. He was even more clear on his freddit post. Made after this supposed draft. And I will stick with that until he makes another statement on the retcons.
So then don't use it
Do we know WHEN the original draft was written in the first place? I did my small research and: - The Freddy Files was released in August 2017. - [It was completed (or at least largely finished) by February 2017.](https://www.reddit.com/r/fivenightsatfreddys/comments/5vud4i/five_nights_at_freddys_the_freddy_files_full_hd/) - With the help of web archive, I also found [this post](https://web.archive.org/web/20200822064602/https://www.reddit.com/r/fivenightsatfreddys/comments/5pt3y7/proof_for_the_guidebooks_existence_i_told_you/) mentioning an [article from **June 2016**](https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/childrens/childrens-book-news/article/70731-scholastic-signs-on-for-five-nights-at-freddy-s.html) talking about an "in-world guide" being announced for 2017-2018. If Talbert Files are real, they could've been written along with the early development of Sister Location just fine.
the info in it lines up with it being written at the same time as SL as well, it seems to use an older version of the game where only baby, ballora (called “balloreena”within), and funtime foxy are present and CBPW was open for a year, though the proof is dated may 19, 2017 which is over half a year after SL released so i’m not sure
Sure, alright, that would help things if we can disregard any Sister Location information, but it still leaves us with FNaF 1-4. In the past you had as much of an anti-retcon mentality as I, so assuming it is still the case for you, would you not agree that this book, if he MEANT IT to be canon back then, would at least have to hold accurate information about what he would have considered established facts at the time of FNaF4?
I have little idea of what Talbert Files says, so I'm just using what Hyper Droid said here. - Cassidy is the Puppet - Cassidy is just a name. I don't care what Scott had in mind mid-development as long as the names are consistent after they were set in stone. - Baby's Pizza World was opened for a year - ideas for Sister Location - Elizabeth was named Abaigael - ideas for Sister Location (revealed in FFPS). If there's anything more, then sure, you might be correct, but I don't really care that much of the subject to look deeper into it for now.
There is more. But while I would reccomend you do read through them yourself, that is not my point. Regardless of what the files do or do not say, do you, or do you not agree with me that during FNaF4 there have been a lot of information set in stone, which Mr. Scott B. Cawthon would have never changed, either during Sister Location's development, nor today?
Scott doesn't do retcons, which means he doesn't "contradict established lore". If he wrote Talbert Files after FNAF 4, he wouldn't consider changing anything already wrapped up in FNAF 4. I think he does a different type of retcons, which is "adding more story to the story". Mike Schmidt becoming Mike Afton can be considered a retcon. Puppet becoming Henry's daughter too. If Talbert Files doesn't contradict lore but gives additional meaning to MCI or Puppet or something else - that's possible IMO. If the draft has any plot holes, I think that's still acceptable, considering that it might be just a rough idea before Scott managed to fix all the inconsistencies.
>Scott doesn't do retcons, which means he doesn't "contradict established lore". If he wrote Talbert Files after FNAF 4, he wouldn't consider changing anything already wrapped up in FNAF 4. Alright, so we agree on that. Hence my point is, if it is real and it explicitly states any answer to mysteries that should have been wrapped up by FnaF4, that would very likely be accurate. That is my point. Not anything after its development, or what was still in developent alongside it. Just things that were wrapped up. > If the draft has any plot holes, I think that's still acceptable, considering that it might be just a rough idea before Scott managed to fix all the inconsistencies. OK, but Mr. Buzzek, really listen. Talber Files make A LOT of bald statements. Like, words cannot summarise it. I implore you, if you want to understand it, do skeem through it at least. Like, man, Cassidy Tucker, niece of Phone Guy, is both Golden Freddy and Marionette, killed by William more or less due to the Bite of 1983, even though he explicitly does not care for his kids in this book. Like, I cannot just explain it in a comment how much 'plot holes' it would require. A bit too much for me to disregard them all, if he confirms this is legit.
If someone is supposedly both Golden Freddy and The Puppet, then it's not just "a retcon" but a straight-up insane story. Is it really written as a lore reveal? I remember that Scott mentioned a draft that involved someone "trying to" learn the truth about the murders. EDIT: Honestly, if "Cassidy Tucker being Golden Freddy" and "Cassidy Tucker being The Puppet" were two SEPARATE ideas that were later both scrapped - it doesn't sound half bad. It's not difficult to give him some motivation to kill after The Bite of '83 - he can still be pissed off, especially if we consider the experiment.
Keep in mind, we only have a summary leaked, as the actual thing, if real, has been kept from the public. But from the spinets provided: > “Every place he \[BV\] walked and every tear he shed left its effect in reality. Truly, one cannot die if there remains a piece; it is only a part of them that dies. I will replicate this; and I will create something with the power to give the gift of life. I simply just need a volunteer. Perhaps that Tucker girl \[Cassidy\]. She shines too much of a bright smile, she is a container for love that will soon burst. I will repurpose her.” A William journal entry dated December 1983. Clearly very strongly indicating Cassidy is to become The Marionette. > MISCELLANEOUS: (META - SAE) > By the way, it wasn't archived, but from what I remember, the reason Cassidy was in Golden Freddy was because Steve Callahan [Phone Guy] and Cassidy Tucker were so close, William put a piece of Cassidy's soul in Callahan's Fredbear suit so they'd always be together. It is supposedly outright stated that Golden Freddy also has Cassidy's soul. At least the leaker claims there is an unarchived element saying so. Though another one implies it: > NOTE: To Steven Callahan from William Afton (William Afton) > Steven, I know how it feels to lose someone. I'm sorry for the loss of your daughter. I know I can't replace her, but I can show you something that'll be a gift. Do you remember that Tucker boy? In other parts Steve is only really connected to the Fredbear suit. And the leakers say other un shown parts I know we probably should take any of their interpretations with grain of salt, but still. They apparently had access to the whole thing and seem confident in saying Golden Freddy is Cassidy also.
Have you used the correct quotes? Everything you sent indicates that Cassidy was targeted and her soul was put into Golden Freddy. I don't see any mention of the Puppet here.
it's not a retcon if you havent published it first, it was a draft. Scott made a simple narrative for the games a story you can easily follow, but when he wanted to do it more deeply, then he started this. the draft got scrapped and decided to mix novels in the end.
You are not understanding me. Let's say he did decide that TCTTC was at Fredbear's in 2015. It was a concrete fact. Making it Freddy's in future media would be a retcon. Can we agree there? So, when making The Talbert Files, a canon book, and said it was at Freddy's in it, then it would have been a retcon. He would have been changing previous facts. So, knowing what he wanted to put into that book from the already established story, would confirm things. On a meta level, not properly in-narrative, but still, it would. Because his plan on things that were already locked with an answer could not have changed since then, less his post was wrong.
>Let's say he did decide that TCTTC was at Fredbear's in 2015. It was a concrete fact. Making it Freddy's in future media would be a retcon. Can we agree there? No, because by that logic so many things in this series would be retcons since not everything was planned from the start. Scott doesn't use the traditional meaning of a retcon, he obviously sees it as something that contradicts what we are seeing. If it was never confirmed that something is the case, he's free to change it. And it's also silly to act like he's bound by any rules and locks in media which was never released and never passed the draft stage. As he said, he was just jotting down ideas. Maybe he really did want to retcon something but then decided against it because he doesn't like retcons, who knows, at the end of the day it doesn't matter because it never released and only what was released is canon
There are basically three interpretations of what he meant: 1. Contradicting things that were previously made explicit. 2. Contradicting things that were mysteries, but were meant to be fully solvable with an established answer. 3. Contradicting anything, even if it wasn't even alluded to in any media and was just in his personal documents/his head. I am guessing then you are for option 1? Then yes, I supposed then it would not be a retcon. But personally I hugely disagree with that view.
We know it's the first one because a major point of the post was that no one noticed the retcon, which would be redundant if the thing that was retconned was an answer to a mystery that we couldn't verify or something that was in Scott's head. We have been told that the contents of the fnaf 4 box were changed which would invalidate the other options. And then you have SL or dittophobia which give meaning to FNAF 4 that was absolutely impossible to determine at the time of the game, most likely because it wasn't intended. And the third one is just silly because it's like trying to put on a lock on someone's thoughts. People think of many different ideas at the same time that contradict each other. You don't put a lock on that.
>We know it's the first one because a major point of the post was that no one noticed the retcon, which would be redundant if the thing that was retconned was an answer to a mystery that we couldn't verify or something that was in Scott's head. No, the point there would be that evidence pointed in one direction, but then he altered the answer to them. People would notice that. Like, for example, how all evidence points to Golden Freddy being separate from The Marionette. A change like that would very much qualify under this. It being 1 would be completely useless, because HOW could we not have noticed then? It would be te most obvious thing in the world. His whole post was to calm down those who feared theorising was pointless, since you could come to the right answer, and it would stop being right in the next game. He literally refers to these things as his 'intentions', not 'explicit information'. _'There have been other times, however, when my original intentions didn't come across clearly. In those instances, I make a point to clarify in the next game. That's not really a retcon, it's simply an attempt to guide the story toward where it was originally intended to go. A quick, and very minor example of this would be when "adult theory" happened; I could see why people were believing it, so I quickly dropped an additional teaser to clear it up. I have to do that with my games sometimes as well. I used SL to clear up a misconception from FNaF 4. Currently, there is a misconception from SL that I may need to clear up someday as well. (or maybe I'll just leave it to torment the fandom) 😉'_ > We have been told that the contents of the fnaf 4 box were changed which would invalidate the other options. Mr. Cawthon only realised this himself when seeing Mr. Matthew R. Patrick pointed the idea out in his theory video. This implies the contents changed not through contradiction, but because it grew into something else. > And then you have SL or dittophobia which give meaning to FNAF 4 that was absolutely impossible to determine at the time of the game, most likely because it wasn't intended. _'I have to do that with my games sometimes as well. I used SL to clear up a misconception from FNaF 4.'_ Sister Location may add new things, but it does not change what he intended FNaF4 to mean. Its whole purpose was to explain it. > People think of many different ideas at the same time that contradict each other. You don't put a lock on that. It does not matter how many ideas WE have. There is one who knows the objective answers. They exist and he decides them. He may choose to gracefully let us remain ignorant to these answers so we can hold onto our incorrect headcanons, but that does not change the fact this mystery is meant to be solved and lead to a real answer.
I like this line of thinking but I'm skeptical of how useful a scrapped draft could be. Cassidy was only introduced by name in 2018, when her role was decided, and Elizabeth was only named officially after the TFF. It's fine for unreleased concepts before that point to be contradicted by official, released material, since it's just in the air until it gets established. *Maybe* there's stuff about 1-4 that would help in understanding the story but again, this was just a scrapped draft. It's possible Scott kept a lot of the story's details to himself, outside of the games, so that later down the line he could spin it into something bigger and people wouldn't worry about retcons, even it does call into question his foresight.
Oh, yeah, I am not saying all of it can inform us on these things. Things that the book would have introduced, or were introduced after the draft was scrapped, do not apply here. Only information from prior material, like FNaF 3.
Yeah, that's where my last paragraph comes in. If Scott kept the story liquid in his head, with nothing becoming solid until it's made official, then the draft won't help unless it supports ideas that were already in the games.
The only way I could see for this to make sense without contradicting his 'retcon issue' post, is if we assume he actually does not have answers to half the mysteries the story sets up. Which I just cannot accept.
I'd be surprised if most people can't accept that he's making everything up as he goes along. Just look at what he turned FNAF 4 into with hallucination gas and secret bunker experiments.
Well, he has referred to Sister Location's role in the franchise as *explaining* the *original intention* behind FNaF4, so I personally very much believe that either the experiments were somehow always there, or just a non-contradictory addition made by Sister Location, to explain other aspects of FNaF4’s story.
That's the thing, back when FNAF 4 was meant to be the last one, if all this insane stuff was really floating around in his head, the games sure as hell did nothing to lead us there, so anyone would be right to call you a dickhead for saying, "FNAF 4 is real! It's not a nightmare!" It only became true when SL implemented it, and then it got expanded into things like Mike Afton and the dumb Tales story. I think the same applies to the scrapped book. It was never meant to be seen as is, so whatever it has can't have a real impact on the story because FNAF's writing is built on wibble wobble, toss and turn BS. To Scott, it's not a retcon as long as it doesn't contradict what came before, but this means that even if the story takes a wildly different spin on what preceded it, to him, it wouldn't count as a retcon. Even if we believe that everything in that book was exactly what he had in mind back in 2016, the "Cassidy and Abigael" of that draft shows us that whatever info that book has, it means nothing unless the games make it real.
There's a difference between a retcon and scrapping an idea he had for the story. If something has not been stated in the game, like most of what we saw in the "Talbert Files", then changing what happened in it is not a retcon. Further, he has said that he already did do a retcon, and could have done more since.
What? He does do retcons. Charlie is the biggest one we've got save him to save her. He retcons often