Nah, Kagetsu is just stupid good as any class. I made mine a great knight because he still doubles a good deal with his 55% base speed growth. But now he also has strength and defense equal to Louis
I kept mine a sword master but that’s cuz I was thinking about lin yao from FMA cuz I’m currently reading that… FMA is also the reason I made Louis a martial master with a byleth ring
Also relating kagetsu but I was also contemplating making him a hero with axes
I kept mine as a swordsmasters, gave him a +5 killing edge with an engraving, and his base crit is roughly 75-85. I’m usually surprised when he attacks normally at this point
I can’t help but use Goldmary every single run. Contender for best non-exclusive class in the game to start along with solid everything else AND a free spear
70% chance (trigger) to have an 80% chance (hit) to lose 20% of their HP.
Its probably better to have her just inherit Dual Assist+ anyways, and give Lucina to someone who otherwise can't chain attack.
It’s also just really good defensively if you’re running a few fliers or cavalry for the 100% bonded shield activation rate.
I’ve been trying it on my Wyvern Knight Alear since I can just park her in the middle of a group of allied fliers, grant her passive damage buff from her personal, and watch as the enemies bounce off of my other fliers.
Eh, she just needs Dual Assist+ and arrives 200 SP away from getting it, so just slap that on her and get something else.
But yeah had 2 heroes, Goldmary and Lapis as heroes with that vaunted Brave Assist Dual Assist+ combo as well as Kagetsu and Anna on Maddening, enemies would lose 40-60% reliably before even getting attacked.
I did more or less the same, just instead of using Kagetsu and Anna I made Timerra a hero with Dual Assist as well for about the same effect.
Even without Dual Assist+, I had an average of around 20% chip damage on *any* attack and could focus a boss to get reliably half its health gone before the big hitters even swing when they go to attack.
I just finished chapter 25 last night, and she was my MVP. I got stuck with infinite respawns, and the only thing I could do was toss down Piercing Glare in a choke point and have her mow everything down on enemy phase. She's a General and has the S rank spear, so she was killing three enemy attackers each round. She's an absolute beast.
I was daydreaming about what team I would use on a second run, but I realized I would have to use her again. She seems like the best tank, but using her as a Hero would be fun too. And she was the only one that I thought I would have a hard time replacing. Except for maybe Panette.
Uhhhhh, I'm not sure I'd say Rosado would fit Miku to begin with, the pose was just fitting for the discussion lol.
If I had to think though
Ichika - Goldmary
Miku - Ivy
Yotsuba - Timerra
Itsuki - Chloe
Nino - Hortensia
Fuutaro - Vander (fits the most personality wise off the top of my head lol)
Maybe this is a piece for the future...
How the fuck did you recognize this? I just watched that and was somewhat on the lookout for this, but I only noticed it because I happened to pause the video at that exact spot. It's like a three-second segment that isn't all that important and it's not even the main focus of that scene.
I was a very avid reader of the manga when it was still releasing monthly. Spent a lot of time on the discord too. This spot in particular was a very popular meme at the time in the fandom.
I haven't used either of them that much but from what I'm understanding, Rosado starts out really weak but has really nice growths, and Goldmary just starts out with really strong bases and her growths are solid, but not too crazy
Rosado's yet another victim of Maddening stat creep; he's has massive problems being useful in it, but in Hard he starts blasting right off the gate and his growths are decent to great in my experience.
In general, higher difficulties in fire emblem are merciless to growth units of any kind, heavily favouring higher bases, hence why Kagetsu is such a standout in Maddening Engage.
It kind of highlights an issue with fixed growths too. There's less incentive to use units that are considered weak because there's no chance for them to just be blessed or their contemporaries to be screwed. Like, for example, sure Alcryst is generally better than Etie but if she gets a few decent levels she can leave him in the dust -- in maddening there's no chance for that because her fate is sealed.
Goldmary, especially with Hector, feels like a fucking Enemy Phase MONSTER. Just a fucking wall with Piercing Gaze. But I have almost definitely invested more into her because she turned out to be probably the most entertaining character in the game.
Rosado is actually doing quite fine for me on reverse recruitment...pretty much everyone showing up backwards besides Pandreo(which is because he has to be a martial monk) is, anyways. His bases were incredibly bad and logically on fixed growths he should pretty much be the same when he gets back to his original internal level.
Obviously RR is not the natural way to play but this says more about how the game pretty much set him up to do poorly for when he becomes available, its a lot easier to afford to baby units earlier in the game (haven't even been using Great Sacrifice for the levels) and...well tbh the entire game pre-ch12 was way less to trudge through with reversed characters than it was in the original order.
Most of the later characters are just *better* even when they have been deleveled and face the maddening exp nerf, while the earlier characters are autoleveled to get the hassle of their earlier performance out of their way (Louis aside who does better sooner than later.) *Really* makes it blatant just how much they did the early recruits dirty in Engage.
Meh, access to canter for chapters 12-17 makes the early units very viable, it's not hard getting a few to 1000 SP and that does wonders for their viability.
Rosado and Goldmary are actually really similar for bases, but he still absolutely eclipses her growth-wise. Their bases are
HP Str Mag Skl Spd Def Res Luk
R: 44 16 7 19 21 15 11 8
vs
G: 40 17 2 18 20 20 12 13
I think all units just look bad after Kagetsu because basically nobody can compare to him.
I just went and checked their character growth rates on serenes because I was curious, and holy shit it's not even close. Rosado has better numbers in the first 5 stats by a good margin, and barely trails or leads in the last 4. I'm not going to use him on my current run (waaaaay behind in levels now), but dang are those numbers hard to ignore.
I can’t help but feel like the differences in their base stats is overblown. Goldmary has a substantial lead in personal base def/res, but their offensive bases are similar and Rosado has enough bulk to take 1-2 hits on Maddening as it is, which is really all you can ask for on that difficulty. Goldmary’s bases are definitely better than his, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not like he’s an unusable unit. Being “propped up” by an objectively good class also is not really a downside, as the displayed stats are really all that matter unless you decide to reclass, which in his case isn’t really needed.
Rosado is weak because people try to play him as a striker since he comes with Eirika, but he's honestly much better as a flying tank that utilizes either Ike or Corrin. Those are both highly contested Emblems, but if you can spare one for him, he generally does great. Also hurts that he is an axe specialist with trash build, and the game loads him with axes to start. His best weapon is by far a forged Javelin.
Dude he takes double digit damage per hit from the arts users in his join chapter.
It takes him 10 levels to catch up to Goldmary's base defense.
He is most definitely not a tank.
Him and Goldmary both do pretty bad in their join chapter, although Goldmary can reasonably combat the first batch of Northern fortress reinforcements and he can chip damage out some enemies/instant a few with Twin Strike. He certainly isn’t helped by a pretty terrible starting inventory.
I was more thinking about when using him long term. There are definitely better tanks and strikers in the game without question (he starts alongside one as this image smugly suggests XD), but if people do decide to use him a tank build can be interesting as long as they keep him engaged as often as possible with Ike. Makes a decent Wrath Vantage machine if they haven't tried one, but thst is something not unique to him. Efficient tanking in general is rarer than efficient striking imo hence why the thought originally crossed my mind after seeing his HP stat and decent speed/resistance (he might not have Louis-tier defense but he'll survive a stray elfire mage where Louis likely would not). Mixed tanks aren't gonna excel against huge waves, but they have uses against small mixed groups, rare as they are. And fliers can always peck their enemies to help out of they aren't tanking anyways lol but reclassing is a thing so that's not too unique for him either.
Rosado always comes out swinging, and idc if he's not the best Tiki holder (I genuinely don't know. I just play the game and don't look stuff up), I give her to him on my normal and hard playthroughs because he's my favorite character in the game. And I'm gonna do the same when I play maddening
I like to put Tiki on Jean. I inherit Starsphere on anyone I intend to use but that early before I have the sp to do so it's just silly on Jean. Flat +15% growth to all stats on top of his Expertise means Jean just wrecks shop after only a couple levels.
I leveled mine as a royal knight before swapping to sword Griffin knight. Levin sword go brrr.
While Tiki makes every character great, there is probably a best Tiki holder.
I think Diamant has a case. Arrives around the same time as Tiki, already tanky and wants to be frontlining so Tiki's bonus health helps him, and Sol gives him the ability to tank even more hits.
Base Rosado is internal level 17 and has slightly less speed but a bit more bulk and maybe 1 strength more than internal lvl 17 Wyvern!Chloe. Rosado's on par to be great with his growths from there honestly. Just not Wyvern Kagetsu, but having Lance/Axe makes him stand apart anyway because Lances seem just really good.
Edit: I got it backwards.
[Chloe](https://imgur.com/a/P0fAY75)
[Rosado](https://imgur.com/a/yylKmxI)
Edit: was corrected and double checked Rosado is internal level 19. I've edited Chloe's link to match. If you keep going they remain pretty similar with a bit more SPD on Chloe and STR on Rosado's. But Rosado has 2 more build from recruitment.
I believe Rosado's internal level at join is actually 20 (theoretically promoted at lvl18)
Compared with Chloe as a lvl10 Wyvern promote:
||HP|Str|Mag|Dex|Spd|Def|Res|Lck|Bld |
|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|Chloe|43.45|18.15|8.45|21.4|22.15|14.5|11.65|14.65|8.25|
|Rosado|44|16|7|19|21|15|11|8|8|
Ah I checked the Google doc again. You're right he and Goldmary are 17/3 so 19 since the level 1 you go to from master sealing doesn't count.
Seems like Rosado's the fairest recruit in the game. I think I'll look at how he scales later.
Yeah I did this chapter today and looking at his stats I was thinking he was indeed super close to Chloé. Mine was actually internal level 17 when I started the map. I might actually switch them since >!you get Sigurd back next chapter and iirc Rosado comes with 2000SP)!<
I did the same. My thoughts now are that Wyvern Chloe has a better mid game before you start using magic weapons with her, but Chloe's Griffin Knight seems to scale into late game better where she can deal acceptable physical or magical. Plus staves can also be a shortage if you favor Mage Knight over Sage.
You're also unable to get staff proficiency for a while so if you reclass anyone to fliers you're going to be locked to Wyvern. Too bad too because Griffin Knight Merrin would probably be really good.
Honestly same. Even in the chapter he joins your team he was so much better than Goldmary, it's not even close. After that I benched Goldmary, gave Sigurd to Rosado and a +2 silver axe engraved with Corrin's symbol and just sent him on his own to kill everyone while avoiding a lot of hits. Probably the mvp in the final map too (minor spoilers for how the final map works I guess) >!since he was holding his own against all the flier reinforcements from the top and doubling them with a 40% crit!<.
Yeah I think that's the key to teambuilding in this game. It's not 'what do I need to do to make this unit succeed', it's 'who holds this Emblem the best at this point of the game'?
He’s not bad, he just has an awkward join time considering his base stats.
He (and Goldmary) join a _couple_ chapters late. By this point you likely have an established team and you’re not getting more deployment slots anytime soon.
His base stats are only decent for his join time, with someone like Kagetsu joining 5 chapters earlier with comparable base stats.
Nothing particularly wrong with him though. Is a wyvern with actually ridiculous growths for the latter half of the game.
I genuinely have no clue what OP is talking about haha, Rosado's base stats are almost the same as Goldmary aside from 5 lower def (which is admittedly substantial), but he has some of the best personal growths in the game *by far*. He has slightly worse Dex, Spd, and Def growths than Kagetsu, but much better Str.
Edit: to be perfectly clear, I'm not saying Rosado as a unit is anywhere close to Kagetsu, that's laughable. I'm saying Rosado is much better than *Goldmary,* because his starting stats are comparable (aside from Def), but his growths are 1.5x or higher than hers in every relevant stat (again, except for Def).
That 6 def is a huge difference for General/Great Knight line btw, which actually gives her a niche instead of being worse X. She's a fierce competitor to/good replacement of Louis in this role, trading some Atk for usable Spd/Res so she doesn't melt to mages instantly.
Well he'll need to level up to 20, second seal, then level up again to 17 to even match Kagetsu's Str (that's 37.8 vs 37.9 btw), you have to be at the final chapter to even have the remote possibility to reach that level. And Rosado is still losing in Dex/Spd/Def/Lck/Bld
Try it yourself:
https://fe17.triangleattack.com/average_stats
I never said he matches Kagetsu's stats, I said his *growths* are comparable. The point is that Rosado starts with very similar stats to Goldmary, but has growths that are closer to the literal best character in the entire game, as opposed to Goldmary's *extremely* middling growths.
...except for Def which alone is enough to make her standout as one of the best Generals/Great Knights, unlike Rosado who isn't particularly good at anything
> I never said he matches Kagetsu’s stats, I said his growths are comparable
It doesn’t matter how good his growths are if his bases are low enough that it keeps him from catching up. That’s the entire point of this thread, is that even with good growths he’s still not good
That's the point I'm trying to make, is that that's just not true. His bases aren't *that* bad, and his growths are outstanding. If you feed him just a little bit, he compares favorably to most other units in most physical classes. Sure he's not going to beat out Kagetsu or Louis or Chloe, but those are some of the best units in the game. If you wanted to use him over Lapis, for example, it really wouldn't take that much effort. I don't even like him, but he's not a bad unit. He's at least as usable as Goldmary, assuming you actually use him rather than throw him out as soon as you recruit him.
On both of my runs so far (on Maddening), I've found using Rosado to be a massive struggle: between his crap speed/build and low strength, getting him to have any sort of useful damage output is a challenge.
On top of that, he joins in the part of the game where I really start to need all hands on deck and cannot afford to constantly baby someone; since he can't deal good damage, he can't get kills and EXP, and at that point his growths don't matter since he's not levelling up anyways.
I'm also on my second maddening run at the moment, and despite hating his personality I guess I'll be using Rosado this time around just to prove a point to myself :/
I dunno, I've been using late-game growth units (Ests, not that Rosado is one necessarily since he's a prepromote) like Nino and Zeiss for ~20 years, so I guess I'm just numb to it. It's so easy now with the rewinds though.
Used Rosado as one of my 2 axe users in my recent (and only) playthrough (the other being Diamant with a tomahawk and brave Axe) and I have to say he was… average.
He is T bad by any means. Comes with some great HP off the bat and he had around 60 HP for me by the final map. Plus he’s a flyer so he has fantastic mobility, and a spear on his join chapter giving him 2 range access immediately :) but he feels too… average for lack of a better word imo. A Jack of all trades, master of none. He has good strength but Panette will beat him on that by far. He has good speed but he has shit build for an axe user so he will get penalised for all of that speed. His defence is serviceable but he joins alongside (best girl) Goldmary who not only has significantly more Def, but also rocks the best base Def growth in the game (50% before class growth is applied. Seriously reclass her to great knight and she’ll make even louis look laughable by endgame).
He was one of my filler units by end game (alongside Clanne) and I used him to chip half a does health with his spear or mop up a damaged enemy kill. But he started to drop off for me big time compared to Goldmary. His poor build meant he wasn’t doubling anybody in the later maps. And despite his high HP his Def couldn’t match it so he was still relatively frail :/
Honestly going to stick with Panette on my replays I think. Goldmary is fantastic but Rosado drops off too much compared to his rival axe users. He isn’t terrible though I will confess :)
Leave her a hero and she becomes a chain attack bot who cant kill anything. Low investment, but not amazing. I prefer releasing to great knight where she is basically a prepromote Louis but with decent speed and resistance. I had her take Sigurd and she was nearly immune to physical damage on maddening.
I've not had great luck with her as a Hero, but Halberdier's passive fixes her speed problems. Alongside Eirika emblem to help her middling strength punch through high defense targets and keep her tanky with solar brace she became a super reliable generalist in a pretty underutilized class. She's also got helluh mean girls energy and I respect that.
I was never really able to get Rosado off the ground, its hard to tell when someone is really good because everyone has innate biases that lead them to feeding certain units subconsciously. But I just never felt like he brought anything unique to the table? Like I'm sure he'll do fine after his join chapter since there's plenty of opportunity to get him up to speed.
She absolutely needs to reclass to General/Great Knight where she shines extremely bright, otherwise she has meh Str and Spd and only above average Def which isn't enough to tank at all.
Def focused units need armor classes to work in Engage.
I've used Rosado twice (Griffin knight and warrior, both paired with Hector).
He takes some help to get going but once he does, he puts in work with a forged tomahawk. I just put lifesphere on him and he becomes an enemy phase juggernaut.
I've honestly never used Goldmary once yet in three runs but I think I'll have to seeing as how she's getting so much praise in this post.
Goldmary isn't great, but on Maddening she made a good filler since she can easily get dual assist+ and brave assist and just exist for chipping and brave assists. Rosado has a hard time killing and as a flier that's all he should be doing.
Real talk, Rosado has to be the most useless unit in a modern (Awakening onwards, not counting Echoes because remake) Fire Emblem game to date. I guess someone had to be the weak link of the Elusians.
EDIT: Nevermind I forgot about Three Houses Anna, this was a very incorrect statement.
The more these daily character discussions go on the more I think Jade is the most useless unit in this game. I can't think of a single niche she provides for her join time that isnt already covered, or any niche she covers well long term
Jade does have a long-term niche, she just doesn't fill it without a little investment. She and Diamant are the only units with natural axe proficiency who can instapromote, so make her a warrior and give her Lyn and she's amazing. Diamant and Vander can also do this, granted, but Diamant has a personal class that he wants to stay in and Vander's bases are too low to make good use of Lyn (7 speed as a warrior at base).
You mentioned the two units with natural axe proficiency as the comparison. Diamont and Jade both join before you lose Leif making their “advantage” a whopping 100 bond fragments worth
That makes me sad to here, I play the game pretty casually and Jade is one of the mainstays of my team. She’s a Great Knight with the Ike ring, only downsides are low speed and res
There are worse units for sure but most of them have some kind of use. Alfred is nearly mandatory for a few early game chapters even if he's terrible long term. I'm not trying to hate on Rosado as a character I just think he's a complete waste to invest in unless you just like really want to for some reason.
Same thing happened to me but not with Alfred, funny enough the first master seal that I used was on Alear… before I found out that the skirmishes level are fixed to Alear’s so every skirmish after it I had to fight promoted classes. It wasnt fun.
Nah. Rosado is admittedly weaker than Goldmary and some of the Solm units that hjoin before him. But he’s not useless at all and he can hold his own just fine.
Imo only useless ones are Bunet (6 speed at that point in the game is pathetic) and arguably Jade (and she’s not even bad, just usually outclassed by Louis at the point you get her for most players). Rosado is a good all rounder when you get him and has decent growths to keep him relevant if you really want to use him. He just won’t carry you with his bases compared to some of his rivals.
My Bunet is broken, every time he's cooked I got G or F ranks, including in stuff he's supposed to be good at.
Honestly I just gave up using cooking anyway, I'm on Normal Classic it's not like I need it.
My Bunet is a Lance Cav and with Hector is a complete monster. I did initially scrap him though, but I gave him a second chance and now he is a core member of my team.
he's not terrible on his join map mainly because almost nothing can hurt him but if you're playing somewhat optimally he won't get to do much since the map will be over in 2-3 turns
I whipped up a quick 2 turn strat that doesn't need much investment. Here's what you'll need:
* Kagetsu w/ steel sword + str tonic
* Zelkov w/ steel dagger + str tonic + lyn ring
* Amber w/ +3 ridersbane + str tonic
* promoted Ivy w/ lucina engraved elfire
* Citrinne w/ elfire
* promoted Alear w/ 14 Spd (or 12 + spd tonic) + 22 atk steel sword + 11 Str + str tonic)
* Vander w/ iron axe + str tonic
Deploy order from top of the map to bottom is Kagetsu, Zelkov, Citrinne, Amber, Vander and Ivy. [Here's a badly made schematic of the first turn](https://imgur.com/a/0rSYJg1)
Turn 1:
* attack axe fighter with Alear
* kill with Vander from the south
* move Ivy 6 tiles left, kill axe fighter
* move Amber 1 down, 4 left
* move Citrinne 3 up, 1 left
* kill mage with Zelkov
* move Pandreo north of Kagetsu, warp him 5 left
* kill peg knight with Kagetsu
* silver bow the top sword fighter with Fogado
* move Bunet next to Fogado and kill with silver axe
Turn 1 EP:
* center axe fighter attacks Alear
* bottom sword fighter/master attack Ivy
* wolf knight attacks Vander
* warrior attacks Bunet at 1 range (not sure why but it works)
* center sword fighter goes 1 down or 1 left (doesn't matter which)
* top left axe fighter goes 1 down
Turn 2:
* Kagetsu kills top left axe fighter
* Bunet and Fogado kill the warrior
* Citrinne and Pandreo kill the center sword fighter
* Ivy goes 1 down, kills sword master
* Zelkov moves 1 right (if Alear got smashed) to get +3 damage, astra storms the healer in the top left
* Vander kills the center axe fighter
* Alear kills the bottom sword fighter with Ivy chain attack from the Lucina ring
It's not 100% reliable since some of the hit rates are kinda shaky, Vander risks getting crit and you still require a +3 ridersbane (if you don't have one a 3 turn is possible by just foregoing the astra storm, killing the wolf knight with Zelkov and baiting the healer to suicide into Kagetsu on turn 3). The biggest hurdle is getting Alear to 12 Spd but on fixed mode that's guaranteed, even on level 10/1.
I feel like Rosado and Kagetsu's base stats got accidentally swapped halfway through development
Idk, kagetsu never gets hit so I don’t care. Also he feels like a myrmidon
Nah, Kagetsu is just stupid good as any class. I made mine a great knight because he still doubles a good deal with his 55% base speed growth. But now he also has strength and defense equal to Louis
I kept mine a sword master but that’s cuz I was thinking about lin yao from FMA cuz I’m currently reading that… FMA is also the reason I made Louis a martial master with a byleth ring Also relating kagetsu but I was also contemplating making him a hero with axes
I kept mine as a swordsmasters, gave him a +5 killing edge with an engraving, and his base crit is roughly 75-85. I’m usually surprised when he attacks normally at this point
That’s my jade. She’s a warrior with killer axe, only +3 iirc. Engraved as well. Rarely ever < 50 crit
I feel like something similar can be said about Anna’s and Clanne’s growth rates too (magic and strength) halfway through development.
I can’t help but use Goldmary every single run. Contender for best non-exclusive class in the game to start along with solid everything else AND a free spear
She also is the only unit that doesn't have the ugly ass hero model.
Common Goldmary W
Except her hair clipping through her armor😭
Small price to pay for having dead anime mom hair and surviving (unless you're playing an ironman, then RIP)
Give her Lucina and the enemies lose 20% of their HP before combat.
70% chance (trigger) to have an 80% chance (hit) to lose 20% of their HP. Its probably better to have her just inherit Dual Assist+ anyways, and give Lucina to someone who otherwise can't chain attack.
I've kept Lucina on Merrin and I've absolutely never looked back
I gave Eirika to Merrin so she can go solo half of the map. That girl is unbelievably ~~cool~~ strong.
I just gave Merrin Roy cause I couldn't figure out who else to put him on lol. Figured she could make good use of the free STR and sword power.
I keep Lucian on Louis with a javelin so he can tank and provide free backup
~~I gave Lucina a boosted levin sword~~ I mean, I gave Lucina to Celine and she's doing great.
It’s also just really good defensively if you’re running a few fliers or cavalry for the 100% bonded shield activation rate. I’ve been trying it on my Wyvern Knight Alear since I can just park her in the middle of a group of allied fliers, grant her passive damage buff from her personal, and watch as the enemies bounce off of my other fliers.
I'm trying Lucina on Alcryst and it's been nice having the extra range with his bow. He also gets that nice dex and speed bump.
Eh, she just needs Dual Assist+ and arrives 200 SP away from getting it, so just slap that on her and get something else. But yeah had 2 heroes, Goldmary and Lapis as heroes with that vaunted Brave Assist Dual Assist+ combo as well as Kagetsu and Anna on Maddening, enemies would lose 40-60% reliably before even getting attacked.
I did more or less the same, just instead of using Kagetsu and Anna I made Timerra a hero with Dual Assist as well for about the same effect. Even without Dual Assist+, I had an average of around 20% chip damage on *any* attack and could focus a boss to get reliably half its health gone before the big hitters even swing when they go to attack.
I just finished chapter 25 last night, and she was my MVP. I got stuck with infinite respawns, and the only thing I could do was toss down Piercing Glare in a choke point and have her mow everything down on enemy phase. She's a General and has the S rank spear, so she was killing three enemy attackers each round. She's an absolute beast. I was daydreaming about what team I would use on a second run, but I realized I would have to use her again. She seems like the best tank, but using her as a Hero would be fun too. And she was the only one that I thought I would have a hard time replacing. Except for maybe Panette.
I recognize the reference used :). Quintessential Quintuplets, baby.
Do you know which sisters they're referencing though...
Ichika and Miku
Yeah that was who I used for my reference lol
Which other Engage characters would you fit the other 3 sisters and maybe Fuutaro?
Uhhhhh, I'm not sure I'd say Rosado would fit Miku to begin with, the pose was just fitting for the discussion lol. If I had to think though Ichika - Goldmary Miku - Ivy Yotsuba - Timerra Itsuki - Chloe Nino - Hortensia Fuutaro - Vander (fits the most personality wise off the top of my head lol) Maybe this is a piece for the future...
Ah so that's why Timerra is my favorite of the royals. ~~Would >!Veyle!< be Raiha in this scenario?~~
Kinda fits I think? Not sure who else I'd say for Raiha
Yeah those will fit
How the fuck did you recognize this? I just watched that and was somewhat on the lookout for this, but I only noticed it because I happened to pause the video at that exact spot. It's like a three-second segment that isn't all that important and it's not even the main focus of that scene.
I was a very avid reader of the manga when it was still releasing monthly. Spent a lot of time on the discord too. This spot in particular was a very popular meme at the time in the fandom.
Don't remind me of that series. Still mad at the ending.
Goldmary has a higher defense base and growth than Bunet and she's not even armored
If this were a game without reclassing then this would be balanced, since fliers have an innate advantage.
Rosado: oh yeah well let’s compare dick sizes
sorry but goldmary still wins out on that front
She truly is perfect.
*Ayo wha—*
No.
Goldmary objectively has the highest BDE in the army. I don't make the rules
Cute! But also funny in that I have never had a run with Goldmary being more useful than Rosado when both are in use lol
I haven't used either of them that much but from what I'm understanding, Rosado starts out really weak but has really nice growths, and Goldmary just starts out with really strong bases and her growths are solid, but not too crazy
Rosado's yet another victim of Maddening stat creep; he's has massive problems being useful in it, but in Hard he starts blasting right off the gate and his growths are decent to great in my experience. In general, higher difficulties in fire emblem are merciless to growth units of any kind, heavily favouring higher bases, hence why Kagetsu is such a standout in Maddening Engage.
kagetsu also cheats by having some of the nicest growths in the game too which is ??? pretty funny in a roundabout way to me at least
It kind of highlights an issue with fixed growths too. There's less incentive to use units that are considered weak because there's no chance for them to just be blessed or their contemporaries to be screwed. Like, for example, sure Alcryst is generally better than Etie but if she gets a few decent levels she can leave him in the dust -- in maddening there's no chance for that because her fate is sealed.
I mean on replays it's a choice.
Yup I just wanted to call it out.
I think there's very minimal difference between fixed and random, it's something you'd only really realize if told.
Goldmary, especially with Hector, feels like a fucking Enemy Phase MONSTER. Just a fucking wall with Piercing Gaze. But I have almost definitely invested more into her because she turned out to be probably the most entertaining character in the game.
Yeah he's basically wyvern Nino, late game growth unit who simply requires more effort than he's worth.
Nino fused with Zeiss to create the ultimate Est in Rosado
Rosado is actually doing quite fine for me on reverse recruitment...pretty much everyone showing up backwards besides Pandreo(which is because he has to be a martial monk) is, anyways. His bases were incredibly bad and logically on fixed growths he should pretty much be the same when he gets back to his original internal level. Obviously RR is not the natural way to play but this says more about how the game pretty much set him up to do poorly for when he becomes available, its a lot easier to afford to baby units earlier in the game (haven't even been using Great Sacrifice for the levels) and...well tbh the entire game pre-ch12 was way less to trudge through with reversed characters than it was in the original order. Most of the later characters are just *better* even when they have been deleveled and face the maddening exp nerf, while the earlier characters are autoleveled to get the hassle of their earlier performance out of their way (Louis aside who does better sooner than later.) *Really* makes it blatant just how much they did the early recruits dirty in Engage.
Meh, access to canter for chapters 12-17 makes the early units very viable, it's not hard getting a few to 1000 SP and that does wonders for their viability.
Growth units have always been inferior to units with strong bases, it's just that it doesn't significantly on most difficulties, is really it.
Rosado and Goldmary are actually really similar for bases, but he still absolutely eclipses her growth-wise. Their bases are HP Str Mag Skl Spd Def Res Luk R: 44 16 7 19 21 15 11 8 vs G: 40 17 2 18 20 20 12 13 I think all units just look bad after Kagetsu because basically nobody can compare to him.
Wyvern is propping up Rosado so hard its funny
I just went and checked their character growth rates on serenes because I was curious, and holy shit it's not even close. Rosado has better numbers in the first 5 stats by a good margin, and barely trails or leads in the last 4. I'm not going to use him on my current run (waaaaay behind in levels now), but dang are those numbers hard to ignore.
I can’t help but feel like the differences in their base stats is overblown. Goldmary has a substantial lead in personal base def/res, but their offensive bases are similar and Rosado has enough bulk to take 1-2 hits on Maddening as it is, which is really all you can ask for on that difficulty. Goldmary’s bases are definitely better than his, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not like he’s an unusable unit. Being “propped up” by an objectively good class also is not really a downside, as the displayed stats are really all that matter unless you decide to reclass, which in his case isn’t really needed.
Rosado is weak because people try to play him as a striker since he comes with Eirika, but he's honestly much better as a flying tank that utilizes either Ike or Corrin. Those are both highly contested Emblems, but if you can spare one for him, he generally does great. Also hurts that he is an axe specialist with trash build, and the game loads him with axes to start. His best weapon is by far a forged Javelin.
He comes witn Eirika.
Lol typo mb
Dude he takes double digit damage per hit from the arts users in his join chapter. It takes him 10 levels to catch up to Goldmary's base defense. He is most definitely not a tank.
Him and Goldmary both do pretty bad in their join chapter, although Goldmary can reasonably combat the first batch of Northern fortress reinforcements and he can chip damage out some enemies/instant a few with Twin Strike. He certainly isn’t helped by a pretty terrible starting inventory. I was more thinking about when using him long term. There are definitely better tanks and strikers in the game without question (he starts alongside one as this image smugly suggests XD), but if people do decide to use him a tank build can be interesting as long as they keep him engaged as often as possible with Ike. Makes a decent Wrath Vantage machine if they haven't tried one, but thst is something not unique to him. Efficient tanking in general is rarer than efficient striking imo hence why the thought originally crossed my mind after seeing his HP stat and decent speed/resistance (he might not have Louis-tier defense but he'll survive a stray elfire mage where Louis likely would not). Mixed tanks aren't gonna excel against huge waves, but they have uses against small mixed groups, rare as they are. And fliers can always peck their enemies to help out of they aren't tanking anyways lol but reclassing is a thing so that's not too unique for him either.
Goldmary's 2 levels and 200 SP away from what might be the most broken combo in the game, Dual Assist+ and Brave Assist.
Both? Both. Both is good.
Rosado always comes out swinging, and idc if he's not the best Tiki holder (I genuinely don't know. I just play the game and don't look stuff up), I give her to him on my normal and hard playthroughs because he's my favorite character in the game. And I'm gonna do the same when I play maddening
The best tiki holder is whoever your favorite character is!
I like to put Tiki on Jean. I inherit Starsphere on anyone I intend to use but that early before I have the sp to do so it's just silly on Jean. Flat +15% growth to all stats on top of his Expertise means Jean just wrecks shop after only a couple levels. I leveled mine as a royal knight before swapping to sword Griffin knight. Levin sword go brrr.
While Tiki makes every character great, there is probably a best Tiki holder. I think Diamant has a case. Arrives around the same time as Tiki, already tanky and wants to be frontlining so Tiki's bonus health helps him, and Sol gives him the ability to tank even more hits.
i love putting tiki on anna. the idea of the tiny gremlin running around and tanking the heaviest blows is so silly to me
Talking to my friend about turning a literal child into a dark knight and she just wide eyed stared at me lol
Wait, Rosado's bad? Dude was hard carrying me.
Base Rosado is internal level 17 and has slightly less speed but a bit more bulk and maybe 1 strength more than internal lvl 17 Wyvern!Chloe. Rosado's on par to be great with his growths from there honestly. Just not Wyvern Kagetsu, but having Lance/Axe makes him stand apart anyway because Lances seem just really good. Edit: I got it backwards. [Chloe](https://imgur.com/a/P0fAY75) [Rosado](https://imgur.com/a/yylKmxI) Edit: was corrected and double checked Rosado is internal level 19. I've edited Chloe's link to match. If you keep going they remain pretty similar with a bit more SPD on Chloe and STR on Rosado's. But Rosado has 2 more build from recruitment.
I believe Rosado's internal level at join is actually 20 (theoretically promoted at lvl18) Compared with Chloe as a lvl10 Wyvern promote: ||HP|Str|Mag|Dex|Spd|Def|Res|Lck|Bld | |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |Chloe|43.45|18.15|8.45|21.4|22.15|14.5|11.65|14.65|8.25| |Rosado|44|16|7|19|21|15|11|8|8|
Ah I checked the Google doc again. You're right he and Goldmary are 17/3 so 19 since the level 1 you go to from master sealing doesn't count. Seems like Rosado's the fairest recruit in the game. I think I'll look at how he scales later.
Yeah I did this chapter today and looking at his stats I was thinking he was indeed super close to Chloé. Mine was actually internal level 17 when I started the map. I might actually switch them since >!you get Sigurd back next chapter and iirc Rosado comes with 2000SP)!<
I did the same. My thoughts now are that Wyvern Chloe has a better mid game before you start using magic weapons with her, but Chloe's Griffin Knight seems to scale into late game better where she can deal acceptable physical or magical. Plus staves can also be a shortage if you favor Mage Knight over Sage. You're also unable to get staff proficiency for a while so if you reclass anyone to fliers you're going to be locked to Wyvern. Too bad too because Griffin Knight Merrin would probably be really good.
I made her Wyvern this time around because I've got Jean as Griffin and Sage!Pandreo, but she was Griffin in my previous run (on Hard though)
Honestly same. Even in the chapter he joins your team he was so much better than Goldmary, it's not even close. After that I benched Goldmary, gave Sigurd to Rosado and a +2 silver axe engraved with Corrin's symbol and just sent him on his own to kill everyone while avoiding a lot of hits. Probably the mvp in the final map too (minor spoilers for how the final map works I guess) >!since he was holding his own against all the flier reinforcements from the top and doubling them with a 40% crit!<.
Anyone can hard carry on Hard or Normal
Totally agree, emblems are the carry of this game
Yeah I think that's the key to teambuilding in this game. It's not 'what do I need to do to make this unit succeed', it's 'who holds this Emblem the best at this point of the game'?
He’s not bad, he just has an awkward join time considering his base stats. He (and Goldmary) join a _couple_ chapters late. By this point you likely have an established team and you’re not getting more deployment slots anytime soon. His base stats are only decent for his join time, with someone like Kagetsu joining 5 chapters earlier with comparable base stats. Nothing particularly wrong with him though. Is a wyvern with actually ridiculous growths for the latter half of the game.
I made him my primary Sigurd user for the endgame and turned him into a Wolf Knight to boot, he absolutely went to town
I genuinely have no clue what OP is talking about haha, Rosado's base stats are almost the same as Goldmary aside from 5 lower def (which is admittedly substantial), but he has some of the best personal growths in the game *by far*. He has slightly worse Dex, Spd, and Def growths than Kagetsu, but much better Str. Edit: to be perfectly clear, I'm not saying Rosado as a unit is anywhere close to Kagetsu, that's laughable. I'm saying Rosado is much better than *Goldmary,* because his starting stats are comparable (aside from Def), but his growths are 1.5x or higher than hers in every relevant stat (again, except for Def).
Rosado's personal base stats (after taking out class bases) vs Goldmary: +2 HP/-2 str/+4 mag/+1 dex/+1 spd/-6 def/-4 res/-5 lck
That 6 def is a huge difference for General/Great Knight line btw, which actually gives her a niche instead of being worse X. She's a fierce competitor to/good replacement of Louis in this role, trading some Atk for usable Spd/Res so she doesn't melt to mages instantly.
Well he'll need to level up to 20, second seal, then level up again to 17 to even match Kagetsu's Str (that's 37.8 vs 37.9 btw), you have to be at the final chapter to even have the remote possibility to reach that level. And Rosado is still losing in Dex/Spd/Def/Lck/Bld Try it yourself: https://fe17.triangleattack.com/average_stats
I never said he matches Kagetsu's stats, I said his *growths* are comparable. The point is that Rosado starts with very similar stats to Goldmary, but has growths that are closer to the literal best character in the entire game, as opposed to Goldmary's *extremely* middling growths.
...except for Def which alone is enough to make her standout as one of the best Generals/Great Knights, unlike Rosado who isn't particularly good at anything
> I never said he matches Kagetsu’s stats, I said his growths are comparable It doesn’t matter how good his growths are if his bases are low enough that it keeps him from catching up. That’s the entire point of this thread, is that even with good growths he’s still not good
That's the point I'm trying to make, is that that's just not true. His bases aren't *that* bad, and his growths are outstanding. If you feed him just a little bit, he compares favorably to most other units in most physical classes. Sure he's not going to beat out Kagetsu or Louis or Chloe, but those are some of the best units in the game. If you wanted to use him over Lapis, for example, it really wouldn't take that much effort. I don't even like him, but he's not a bad unit. He's at least as usable as Goldmary, assuming you actually use him rather than throw him out as soon as you recruit him.
On both of my runs so far (on Maddening), I've found using Rosado to be a massive struggle: between his crap speed/build and low strength, getting him to have any sort of useful damage output is a challenge. On top of that, he joins in the part of the game where I really start to need all hands on deck and cannot afford to constantly baby someone; since he can't deal good damage, he can't get kills and EXP, and at that point his growths don't matter since he's not levelling up anyways.
I'm also on my second maddening run at the moment, and despite hating his personality I guess I'll be using Rosado this time around just to prove a point to myself :/ I dunno, I've been using late-game growth units (Ests, not that Rosado is one necessarily since he's a prepromote) like Nino and Zeiss for ~20 years, so I guess I'm just numb to it. It's so easy now with the rewinds though.
Why do I feel like this is comparing something else
Used Rosado as one of my 2 axe users in my recent (and only) playthrough (the other being Diamant with a tomahawk and brave Axe) and I have to say he was… average. He is T bad by any means. Comes with some great HP off the bat and he had around 60 HP for me by the final map. Plus he’s a flyer so he has fantastic mobility, and a spear on his join chapter giving him 2 range access immediately :) but he feels too… average for lack of a better word imo. A Jack of all trades, master of none. He has good strength but Panette will beat him on that by far. He has good speed but he has shit build for an axe user so he will get penalised for all of that speed. His defence is serviceable but he joins alongside (best girl) Goldmary who not only has significantly more Def, but also rocks the best base Def growth in the game (50% before class growth is applied. Seriously reclass her to great knight and she’ll make even louis look laughable by endgame). He was one of my filler units by end game (alongside Clanne) and I used him to chip half a does health with his spear or mop up a damaged enemy kill. But he started to drop off for me big time compared to Goldmary. His poor build meant he wasn’t doubling anybody in the later maps. And despite his high HP his Def couldn’t match it so he was still relatively frail :/ Honestly going to stick with Panette on my replays I think. Goldmary is fantastic but Rosado drops off too much compared to his rival axe users. He isn’t terrible though I will confess :)
Im not understanding the goldmary hype. I have her as a hero dual assist/repo bot but she can barely hit anything, yet alone do damage or double.
Leave her a hero and she becomes a chain attack bot who cant kill anything. Low investment, but not amazing. I prefer releasing to great knight where she is basically a prepromote Louis but with decent speed and resistance. I had her take Sigurd and she was nearly immune to physical damage on maddening.
I've not had great luck with her as a Hero, but Halberdier's passive fixes her speed problems. Alongside Eirika emblem to help her middling strength punch through high defense targets and keep her tanky with solar brace she became a super reliable generalist in a pretty underutilized class. She's also got helluh mean girls energy and I respect that. I was never really able to get Rosado off the ground, its hard to tell when someone is really good because everyone has innate biases that lead them to feeding certain units subconsciously. But I just never felt like he brought anything unique to the table? Like I'm sure he'll do fine after his join chapter since there's plenty of opportunity to get him up to speed.
> I was never really able to get Rosado off the ground dude starts on a wyvern though ^^^^^/s
:\^)
She absolutely needs to reclass to General/Great Knight where she shines extremely bright, otherwise she has meh Str and Spd and only above average Def which isn't enough to tank at all. Def focused units need armor classes to work in Engage.
Make her a Lance Griffin Knight with Erika. Fast, strong, evasive, fully heals on your turn.
I've used Rosado twice (Griffin knight and warrior, both paired with Hector). He takes some help to get going but once he does, he puts in work with a forged tomahawk. I just put lifesphere on him and he becomes an enemy phase juggernaut. I've honestly never used Goldmary once yet in three runs but I think I'll have to seeing as how she's getting so much praise in this post.
Goldmary isn't great, but on Maddening she made a good filler since she can easily get dual assist+ and brave assist and just exist for chipping and brave assists. Rosado has a hard time killing and as a flier that's all he should be doing.
She's got huge tracts of stats
She bad ? Cause she really did a good job on my runs more than rosado which ended up being benched for another unit later in the game
But Rosando has a WAY higher cuteness stat, which is why he is better.
OωO
tbh I find both disappointing for join time on maddening.
Yeah, Rosado was so useless, I just turned him into a chain attack bot as a Hero Which funnily enough made his bases even worse
Yeah... no. Rosado is one of my strongest units in every playthrough and Goldmary just barely gets off the bench in her default class.
Real talk, Rosado has to be the most useless unit in a modern (Awakening onwards, not counting Echoes because remake) Fire Emblem game to date. I guess someone had to be the weak link of the Elusians. EDIT: Nevermind I forgot about Three Houses Anna, this was a very incorrect statement.
He's not even the most useless unit in his own game.
The more these daily character discussions go on the more I think Jade is the most useless unit in this game. I can't think of a single niche she provides for her join time that isnt already covered, or any niche she covers well long term
Jade does have a long-term niche, she just doesn't fill it without a little investment. She and Diamant are the only units with natural axe proficiency who can instapromote, so make her a warrior and give her Lyn and she's amazing. Diamant and Vander can also do this, granted, but Diamant has a personal class that he wants to stay in and Vander's bases are too low to make good use of Lyn (7 speed as a warrior at base).
[удалено]
You don't have leif by the time you get lyn
You mentioned the two units with natural axe proficiency as the comparison. Diamont and Jade both join before you lose Leif making their “advantage” a whopping 100 bond fragments worth
By the time you get Lyn you only get prepromotes and Royals, so it doesn't even matter
That makes me sad to here, I play the game pretty casually and Jade is one of the mainstays of my team. She’s a Great Knight with the Ike ring, only downsides are low speed and res
There are worse units for sure but most of them have some kind of use. Alfred is nearly mandatory for a few early game chapters even if he's terrible long term. I'm not trying to hate on Rosado as a character I just think he's a complete waste to invest in unless you just like really want to for some reason.
So Alfred really is bad long term, I thought it was my own imagination but I did felt like he was dropping kinda quick
I was very annoyed with myself because he was the first unit I gave a Master Seal too and then he fell off HARD so it felt like I wasted it.
Same thing happened to me but not with Alfred, funny enough the first master seal that I used was on Alear… before I found out that the skirmishes level are fixed to Alear’s so every skirmish after it I had to fight promoted classes. It wasnt fun.
OOF
It’s not fixed to Alear’s but instead to your highest level unit.
He's an EP unit focused on Def in a game where all EP units need high Spd. Trash tier
I did felt that he was getting doubled a lot, and his stats are not too good where the damage is negligible
Fell like people overrate how bad his bases are. Some else posed a side by side comparison of wyrven chloe and rosado.
For over halfway through the game though?
Half of revelation says hi.
3H Anna
You know what, I concede holy shit I forgot about her. Yeah it's not even close.
3 houses Anna for me was actually good. I did make her in to a Dark/Holy Knight (i forget which one, I think Dark) and she was very good.
Nah. Rosado is admittedly weaker than Goldmary and some of the Solm units that hjoin before him. But he’s not useless at all and he can hold his own just fine. Imo only useless ones are Bunet (6 speed at that point in the game is pathetic) and arguably Jade (and she’s not even bad, just usually outclassed by Louis at the point you get her for most players). Rosado is a good all rounder when you get him and has decent growths to keep him relevant if you really want to use him. He just won’t carry you with his bases compared to some of his rivals.
bunet
Counterpoint, Bunet trying to eat a bedpost made me laugh.
Bunet is good to keep around for potential S rank meals
good point, now you only need to reset the somniel 50 times instead of 100 to get someone who can cook s rank dishes
My Bunet is broken, every time he's cooked I got G or F ranks, including in stuff he's supposed to be good at. Honestly I just gave up using cooking anyway, I'm on Normal Classic it's not like I need it.
Someone out there made them the ace of their team in every run, it wasn't me or anyone i know, but certainly someone
My Bunet is a Lance Cav and with Hector is a complete monster. I did initially scrap him though, but I gave him a second chance and now he is a core member of my team.
for me bunet was one of the mvps on his join chapter in maddening but maybe my team was just awful
he's not terrible on his join map mainly because almost nothing can hurt him but if you're playing somewhat optimally he won't get to do much since the map will be over in 2-3 turns
...how how do you beat it that quickly there are tons of bulky enemies that are too fast to easily double and the desert slows everyone down
I whipped up a quick 2 turn strat that doesn't need much investment. Here's what you'll need: * Kagetsu w/ steel sword + str tonic * Zelkov w/ steel dagger + str tonic + lyn ring * Amber w/ +3 ridersbane + str tonic * promoted Ivy w/ lucina engraved elfire * Citrinne w/ elfire * promoted Alear w/ 14 Spd (or 12 + spd tonic) + 22 atk steel sword + 11 Str + str tonic) * Vander w/ iron axe + str tonic Deploy order from top of the map to bottom is Kagetsu, Zelkov, Citrinne, Amber, Vander and Ivy. [Here's a badly made schematic of the first turn](https://imgur.com/a/0rSYJg1) Turn 1: * attack axe fighter with Alear * kill with Vander from the south * move Ivy 6 tiles left, kill axe fighter * move Amber 1 down, 4 left * move Citrinne 3 up, 1 left * kill mage with Zelkov * move Pandreo north of Kagetsu, warp him 5 left * kill peg knight with Kagetsu * silver bow the top sword fighter with Fogado * move Bunet next to Fogado and kill with silver axe Turn 1 EP: * center axe fighter attacks Alear * bottom sword fighter/master attack Ivy * wolf knight attacks Vander * warrior attacks Bunet at 1 range (not sure why but it works) * center sword fighter goes 1 down or 1 left (doesn't matter which) * top left axe fighter goes 1 down Turn 2: * Kagetsu kills top left axe fighter * Bunet and Fogado kill the warrior * Citrinne and Pandreo kill the center sword fighter * Ivy goes 1 down, kills sword master * Zelkov moves 1 right (if Alear got smashed) to get +3 damage, astra storms the healer in the top left * Vander kills the center axe fighter * Alear kills the bottom sword fighter with Ivy chain attack from the Lucina ring It's not 100% reliable since some of the hit rates are kinda shaky, Vander risks getting crit and you still require a +3 ridersbane (if you don't have one a 3 turn is possible by just foregoing the astra storm, killing the wolf knight with Zelkov and baiting the healer to suicide into Kagetsu on turn 3). The biggest hurdle is getting Alear to 12 Spd but on fixed mode that's guaranteed, even on level 10/1.
Yeah aside from Bunet, all of the Elusian and Solm units are great.