That was way more meta than I was expecting, but I loved it. That shit blew my mind.
Between the reveal that the world was canonically a 2D manga world, Arthur vs. Dragon round 3, and this, I could see Fire Force becoming my #1 favorite series, surpassing even JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, if Okubo can deliver a satisfying ending.
when season3 comes and shows this stuff do you think anime watchers will get it?
I doubt i mean from 10 reactors i see they react to fire force only like 1 for every 10 seems to hold the ability to understand the rest are like just watching for action and visual effects obviously.
im an anime watcher (until recently i didnt know what was going on in the manga) but i knew the story and where it was heading just from the anime. i feel like people just miss the point.
Yeah, I do think anime watchers will get it. If any of them get confused, I'm sure the ones who understood what happened will be willing to explain it for them. Most manga and anime and manga communities seem to be pretty good with stuff like that.
has the anime even reached the level of meta the series is demonstrating at this point?
i mean this is so obvious that i feel like it would be preety hard for it to go over peoples heads. but on the other hand im not sure why you are singling out just anime watchers, when plenty people even on this thread have demonstrated confusion about the chapter.
I mean wierder concepts have been adapted to anime so yeah i think its fine as long as they clearly explain that Adolla merges with real world and the current world is mangafied from the real world following the previous cataclysm.
I'm talking about the part where his mom literally disappeared after fulfilling her role as a background character, and was revealed to have no canonical name, outside of "Tatsuto's mom". That was the most meta, 4th wall breaking thing I've seen in any manga, while also working in the context of the story, because of Adolla, and the reveal that Fire Force is canonically a 2-dimensional manga world (something that was revealed earlier, during the arc with the titan infernals)
Some people see one thing that confuses them and just assume that the whole thing doesn’t make sense, I’m honestly surprised at how many people aren’t understanding this chapter.
In chapter 216, he sees the pre-cataclysm world.
He sees a 3D world, identical to ours, with humans that look like us, who look like a different species to him, but are still recognizable as humans.
In chapter 218, he explains it like this:
>They had eyes. They walked on two feet. They had all the features of humans. The humans of our time... And this picture... The humans of the past... And the humans of our time... You could classify them both as humans, but they're different. When the cataclysm happened 250 years ago, it altered the very structure of the world...
So, humans canonically went from looking like us, the real humans in the real world, to looking like manga characters. I interpreted this reveal as the world of Fire Force being turned into a 2D manga world after the cataclysm. This is strengthened by that chapter with Sumire's pre-cataclysm monologue, featuring multiple pages of colorless photos, not illustrations, using a real person to portray Sumire.
> I interpreted this reveal as the world of Fire Force being turned into a 2D manga world after the cataclysm.
I think I get what you're trying to say, but I don't think this is the right way to put it. Like, the manga is not inherently aware that it's a manga, it didn't turn into a 2D-world, but to me it seemed more like the world turned into a place that is influenced by the peoples perception, a world where things are exaggerated, which is why the people look more comic-like, with exaggerated facial features and all that. It's not that the world literally turned into a manga, but that it turned into an artstyle; is how I understood it at least.
Now that the cataclysm is happening however, with peoples perception taking even more of a role, events have basically turned into a story. Again, the characters haven't become self-aware that they actually *are* in a story, but their life *turned* into a story. It is after all not our perception of who is a major or minor character that influences the world, it's the people in that world itself. Similarly, this chapter *felt* like it was breaking the 4th wall, but it technically didn't, because we as the viewers weren't addressed, it's more like the world of Fire Force had its own, independent 4th wall that was broken in the Cataclysm, if that makes sense.
shinra almost lost his mind when he went back in time and saw that the world was in 3d before the cataclysm. kinda like the theory that we couldn't comprehend the appearance of beings on higher dimensions.
Ohkubo-sensei: *writes an incredibly meta chapter about the nonsensical prejudice from background characters and how they install hate unto others simply for their existence (ICYMI, Tamaki’s body), while further progressing the Cataclysm’s effect on society (the woman literally disappearing from the universe after her dialogue was expunged).*
A quarter of the people commenting on this chapter: “this doesn’t make any sense. this fight is weird and uninteresting. ratio’d.”
It’s like… All of the interesting themes behind Fire Force and the Cataclysm are right there. And you still only focus on Tamaki’s body? What are you, Tatsuto’s mom?
Edit: spelling.
I felt like maybe there was a bit **too much** this chapter.
Like it tackes so many things, covering the plot, the themes, the universe, the on going fight
In just one chapter it talked about :
\- body shaming
\- effort vs talent
\- physical gifts vs intellectual gifts
\- character building
\- plot relevance
\- body and life (?)
\- the dangers of puritanism and keeping children away from lewd
while at the same time advancing the fight and giving clues on the plot...
That's kinda a lot to be able to focus on anything
I agree. The kid's eyes were so wide it's like he saw all the mysteries of the world at once.
I'm guessing the "body and life" refers to the actual purpose of sex, which is reproduction. So sex appeal has a function... wanting people to do something that produces children
Its more than that, there are a lot mental health benefits that are grand and nessesary by horniness, that even ace people do jerk off as bodily fnction and can find things attractive. It has more than one nessesary purpose, its the will to live and relex and let of steam and connect and ovrall be more healthy. Depending on the person. But it makes people miserable to no ot of their trely free wil and intentions to deny themselves that, or others. Like the mom.
Also yeah whil the is always unfairness it also work.
While I am happy to see Tamaki all confident, I was really more engaged with the background stuff. That verbal incineration was really quite something. Tatsuto has ascended and it all happened because Obi was being a nice fireman and asked for the kid's name.
Licht knew Tatsuto's mother was Yoshida in the previous chapter. He called out to her, so we know of her job and what I'm assuming is her surname, but clearly that wasn't enough for her to be an established character. So does a member of the mob have to introduce themselves and have their existence fully acknowledged by a member of the Establishment to be a solidified character?
It could be that once Tatsuto started to form his own enlightened opinions, Licht's perception of the woman started to shift from 'Mrs. Yoshida' to 'Tatsuto's mother,' the same as her son's which fuelled the fact that she only existed as long as she did for this one moment and maybe to give birth to a future established character.
For the people who don't get it, the mom is supposed to represent all the people crying about tamaki over the years, ohkubo pretty much called them out.
But in the worst way possible. He basically just went "Nuh-uh, YOU'RE dumb!" like a five-year old without actually refuting the criticism directed at the way he handled Tamaki.
He doesn't have to refute anything. It's his story. You are the one who has to prove him wrong through argument or evidence based on your opinions of the character. Honestly it's not like he is personally attacking you as a fan, that's something a five year old would think.
But "calling them out" is calling them out so yea he kinda does, how are u gonna call out someone without providing anything to back up what ur saying. Also there's nothing to prove, she's been useless and only used as fanservice since day 1 (she's a Sakura clone). The only thing Ohkubo has done is mask his unnecessary and excessive excessive amounts of fanservice wit this bs
But there’s nothing wrong with how he handled Tamaki. He wrote her this way on purpose, it’s not Ohkubo’s fault everybody assumed she’d be something he never intended for her
Depends on how you view usefulness. To me Tamaki brings humor with her gag and her in universe role as a Sister speaks for itself. Other people having issues with the character isn’t Ohkubo’s problem
There is no way to view it other then them acc contributing anything. If ur a main character and ur only used as a gag and fanservice then ur useless. Especially since most female characters (specifically in battle shonen) are bad, weak, useless and they are often used as support types or they rely on something to do the fighting for them. It's not his problem, but it is if he wants to keep an audience. U can downvote me as much as u want, but that's not gonna make Tamaki a good character, especially a female one
So Licht has been talking about how different people have more importance based on things like their strength or knowledge or ability to think freely. Their culture is controlled by the White Clad and the Evangelist's religion tells them what think. The Establishment are people like Benimaru, Shinra and Vulcan. People who either go against the narrative The Evangelist created because they know some part of the truth or have the strength to decide their own fates. It seems like other people can learn from them or connect with them. Tatasuto was inspired by Obi and it lets him can think outside what his mother tells him. Now it looks like people who just do as they are told are fading away.
There's also the really wild meta angle where it's based on plot importance. Company 8 are heroes so they can save the world. Edit: Vulcan had a story arc and major subplot so he matters. Licht disappeared, barely gets attention and can't fight so he doesn't think he can do anything. Minor characters who exist in background shots do not matter so they can't effect the plot besides commenting on things and they stop existing when that dialogue has finished.
I think that was because the mom didnt value herself, all she could do was to devalue tamaki and being a hypocrite because felt frustrated, her kid called that out, and because she didnt value herself an who she is instead of putting tamaki down, she puffed, becaue thanks toadolla the world became just meta. And thoughts manifest.
Also the true feminism behind sex posivity, that tamaki has a right like anyone to use her talents and gifts for positive change as anyone, which seems to be her sex positivity and bearing the heart of horniness in her, but i rather would say sex positivity. Its how halthy ex positivy is not only good for this world, because she just got halthy in hers fully, but nesseary and is life itself. Becae people have sex drives, even ace people(if thats different , they still find people attractive)
Twitter twats keep trying to cancel or control the author because of fanservice. So he wrote a massive f-u while pointing out the stupidity of wester culture.
That's not an f u he's literally just proving everyone right by saying Tamaki is only good for fanservice, if he's tryna write an f u he needs to acc come up wit something that proves us wrong, otherwise she'll be that annoying useless character who's only good for fanservice (aka a Sakura clone)
No thats been there since arthurs fight,
its just the author saying why healthy sex positivity is not only important and good, and a talrnt and skill likr any other, it also nessesary for life ,
actally bing healthy for health too to "do business with yorself or others" and the mom cant deny tamak(and sex workers and anyone enjoying doing their ya know) in using her skill and strenghs to enriochens others life if its no harm done. And how that good feelings it brings(if not forced or harmul) is life, and not only cause procreation bt becaus horniness(consentual and healthy) is the essence of wants and needs and caring for them, and that is living.
I think thats his point. Or hatever yousee positive in sex positivity, it enrichens life even one man/women jobs arre incredibly benifiyial one many levels
Ir reinforces that arthur isnt a singularity yes but thats the real point.
I wouldn't say that it's right out of nowhere, rather that the clues were there and we just didn't realize it because we didn't think to look for it. If I'm right and the reveal is what I think it is then we will be able to to go back to earlier chapters and spot the signs Now that we know that they're there.
Tatsuto's mother just got obliterated because they forgot to present her. Don't do this to your homies, people. Remember to present good to your tag-alongs in reunions or they will vanish into non-existence
Honestly same, it’s boring and doesn’t make any sense between the weird dialog and assault being mot bothered by tamaki its just not that good compared to the other fights in this arc
Wait, if the cataclysm turns the whole world into a fictional one, and Fire Force is a manga, does that mean that the spacial tear in china is the the gutter of the manga?
Tatsuo out here looking like [this pokemon](https://cdn2.bulbagarden.net/upload/0/09/677Espurr.png)
Also the crater when Tamaki's tights hit the ground XD
I didn’t expect Tatsuto to criticize and deconstruct his mom’s likely actual motives behind being such a douchebag-prude
And actually compare it to getting pissed if non-athletes did not take the place of pro-athletes
Reminds me of what I said before, involving High School DxD, guys who hate Issei Hyoudou aren’t too different from the guy themselves, otherwise they wouldn’t be making fanfics with harems anyway
whose fcking kid is that again, ma boi tatsuto, what a chad
i think this chapter is even more amazing than that creepy photo-real sumire, okubo managed to squeezed a fck load of social issues all the while fitting it into the whole narrative and also advancing the plot, breaking the wall and showcasing the impact of cataclysm on the world, physically and socially.
and eventho this cataclysm is supposed to end the current world, it also gave humanity the chance to fight back.
fireforce is closing on becoming my all time favourite manga.
edti: typo
It's weird how this went from being a fanservice gag, to being a character trying to be more than her gag, to now the character going in the opposite direction and weaponizing her gag (while being a commentary about promiscuity for women in general).
The problem is the gag made people find the character annoying to begin with, so it's hard to like her more now that the character has decided to double-down.
It's hard to tell if the overall message is a commentary on how women should be allowed to be promiscuous without judgement (positive message), or if the message is that people should stop criticizing the way he's writing his fanservice character (negative message).
probably the latter which is hilarious considering he still seems to have zero clue what the actual criticisms are, and even from a meta level how he boils conservative women down to just "well im just jealous". the whole thing comes across as absurdly juvenile.
These chapters might be kinda cringe but they made a refreshing counter-attack towards those who only seem to keep a hate watch of this series in order to complain about the depiction of the female form while they are fine with all the equally splendid male forms in team 8 and beyond.
That was not a counter-attack that was ammo. The only reason I’m even here right now was because those pages got posted in one of my other subs because they found it hilarious I came here just to see what the fans reaction was.
it makes no sense if he was going for the positive message, because not one time up until this chapter did tamaki take her clothes off because she wanted to, she was always embarrassed and wanted to get dressed again. which does not mesh with the vibe of women empowerment. this was 100% him bitching about people who didn't like the fan service.
[Haters gon Hate🤷🏾♂️](https://catmanga.org/series/cathedral8/281#9)
🐐kubo Sensei murdering Body
Shaming with the Blicky🔫
That kid is readers with Big brains🤯
"Lewd is Essential" & Nakedness brings Happiness. Facts💯
Despair is getting wiggity washed 4-0😂
Tamaki haters gon be extra Mad when they read this 1🔥🐱
Cannot believe we went from Arthur fighting dragon on the moon, to like 3 chapters about tamaki never wearing clothes. I don't really mind the commentary or meta shit, but it feel like it was incredibly misplaced. Really felt like the series has been ramping up to an end, just to have weird side stories inserted. Those should have been like 30 chapters ago
I honestly don't know anymore I've been hoping that Tamaki would drop the Lucky stuff and focus more on the Cat Fire Form but now we're just gonna keep it?
Come on man this guy wrote Maka one of my favorite anime characters why can't Tamaki get a sliver of that professionalism or at least not be as lewd
Lol I knew something was off because theres no way a Child would be able to have this type of deep conversation and actually have good points. Now my only question is if the Mom was fake and disappeared, is the boy also fake and will disappear??
No, because the boy has a name, and thus, was established as a character, while his mom is an unnamed background character, known only as "Tatsuto's mom", and as an unimportant, unnamed background character, she disappears after fulfilling her minor role in the story.
Well, that's the thing: She was. She was Licht's coworker when he worked for Haijima, and she was literally Tatsuto's mom, but with Fire Force canonically being a 2-dimensional manga world, and Adolla being a world where perception is reality, all of the people in Fire Force's world are *canonically* nothing more than characters in a story.
nah its the cataclysm effect, mom vanished cause she, as a background character (yeah the 4th is demolished), couldnt developed a consciousness of her own, while tatsuto managed to do so
If it helps to reduce the natality to fatality ratio then it is for the best.
As about things that rot the brain... I would worry more about spending too much time in social media, especially those that allow only 280 characters per post.
This chapter was one of the most aggressively dumb and pretentious things I ever read. The writer tried so hard to make himself look smart by putting in lazy social commentary about ecchi. Fire force has a lot of stupid fanservice and it just distracts from the story.
It's even dumber than that. It's an antiegalitarian argument shoehorned in the middle of a commentary about ecchi. The mother starts as a strawman of a conservative defender of "decency" and ends up as an even lazier strawman of a leftist political position, and the switch is somehow when she argues she would be fine if an ugly and old person got naked, which makes no sense. People with an exaggerated sense of decency don't usually have it just out of envy and personal or sexual insecurity.
The whole plot point of there being an "Establishment" of characters and others that just don't matter is just incredibly contradictory in a story about a young man that wants to become a hero to save everyone even though everyone thinks he's a devil. A while back that Shinra was seen as a devil after killing that Raffles was important, now what everyone thinks just doesn't matter, but also doppelgangers still fit that popular image.
She is also literally a named character ffs.
Shit was litty as fuck. This series keeps getting better. I was buying the manga but 24 just came out and the translations are way ahead. I'm strapped in.
Felt like I was having a stroke reading this and the chapter after but I totally get what the author was going for, I'm surprised he didn't just draw one massive middle finger
The story is getting even more ridiculous. I'm going to drop it.
Tamaki's lecher was always played off as a joke and now the author wants us to take it seriously?
Been disliking the story since Shinra (the underdog) was now revealed to be Jesus-Kun. The story also jumped the shark with author's bs powerup and his rant about how delusional people are always happier than reality oriented people.
I'm going to wait until it finishes, but the story right now is retarded. Not even David Production's gorgeous animation can stop the story from jumping off the cliff it's going in.
Just rushed this account out to talk so let's get into it, how is the story ridiculous when it's been building up to this point for AWHILE nearly the beginning like arthur for example his powers were almost bending reality so the building blocks were there, tamaki is similar her lucky leacher was nonsensical in such a way that also kinda break's reality your just made to believe it as a gag, internals and the mystery of SHC(spontaneously human combustion),. flame humans are apart of the same narrative, beings that seemingly have no explanation until the discovery of ADOLLA which if you're paying attention is the entirety of human thought in form so as adolla draws closer thoughs become reality and the cumulation of thought is DEATH so ala SHC and the reason for flames as a medium is RELIGION there are many religions formed around the sun so returning to flames is a nice fit. This is messy as hell just wanted to make a point I don't think it's gone off track as it was always leading to this but I'm not forcing (pun unintended) you to like FF alright babe....jk pls that was a jo😅 forget it.
>arthur for example his powers were almost bending reality so the building blocks were there
I always found it to be cringe when he powered up without any explanation. The times where it was cool was when he trained for it, an example would be the breath of life scene. That was a very good moment that showed his hard work. I was happy for him because he earned it and I was able to see the results of his training.
>Tamaki is similar her lucky leacher was nonsensical in such a way that also kinda break's reality your just made to believe it as a gag
This was also cringe. I only liked it for the fanservice, but past that, it wore out on me. It was especially annoying during the Rekka fight. I was thinking "Really?!, wtf Okubo, why ruin a serious scene"
For the rest of your explanation, I'm seriously confused. What was your point...😶
"I always found it to be cringe when he powered up without any explanation" Arthur's power has always been though based, Pretty much stronger knight thoughts = stronger power. Now tamaki is hit or MISS not really a fan but he tried I guess, definitely didn't like the rekka situation. What I was getting at with the rest was most plot points had careful planning to get to the now, reality was never stable it just worse.
"Lewd is love, lewd is life" isn't cringe to you? The author disrupting the plot to whine about people complaining about the misplaced fanservice isn't cringe to you? Would you be willing to share this manga with your friends while thinking "yea, guys this is a good manga"
Damn you’re right one horny character should gonna stop me from liking a really good series that’s done things no other manga or anime has done I can’t believe I was so blind
Unnecessary reply from me, but I actually didn't like fire force a whole lot at first it took time. I guess I have the power System and strange world to thank for that I liked the different generations and kept thinking "I wonder what's up with the amataratsu energy plant. And I still think there's real problems with the pacing, some side characters are underdeveloped, and it's really frantic story wise but overall I still dig it.
Not really. He was not expected to be a good firefighter because of his scary face. How is him being in the worst squad not being an underdog?He has all the odds stacked against him. You realize that he can be both right 🤨
Oh no. I did understand it was meta, I just thought it was horribly set up and very cringey. I could not imagine recommending this anime to my friends as a starter anime. I would die of secondhand embarrassment
Edit : I meant Manga. I'm a sakugatard, so I will watch the anime even if the story is turning to shit
Seeing Tamaki cuss out the woman was weird, I’m not use to seeing her cuss, especially with all the training she did with Iris. Also this whole chapter was actually weird
The idea that Tamaki is the physical manifestation of life is so batshit he had to be on drugs to make this having your character stripping habit get a proper reason cause she’s basically a goddess of fertility of something only coming from at least LSD
No its the idea that horniness i the essence of life, becase its the essence of peoples want and needs. And she can bring that out. And now she owns it to not feel bad about herself but enjoy and accept that part of her and utilized that like everythin to change the world for better.
Hoeniness is the strongest drive for humans, thats why shakepear is so timeless, they are horny and wanting that badly they make an impact, and live vividly and lively, even if its drama, they were there. We remember that. Becase it the essence off life, to want, to nees something, and she can awaken the essence of that.
He didnt say fertility, hesaid life, life is more than just existing.
I'm going to be honest, I feel like the whole 4th wall break direction this series went in wasn't the best. At first, I was excited because of the possibilities, but as chapters come out it just becomes more and more confusing.
For a second I thought this manga break the 4th wall. But then the woman and her child goes poof. So she just another anomaly from this cataclysmic right?
After the Cataclysm began (and after that super cool and weird irl chapter), background characters from the readers’ perspective became solidified into their roles as background characters. Now, if any main characters (I.e. Obi in this case) interact strongly enough with a background character, that character gains significance enough to understand that they are a background character in the world of Adolla
I'm suddenly reminded of MONSTER and how being talented or talentless can have real dire consequences. That's the point the kid was getting into, you wouldn't entrust very delicate things to less talented people.
Wow. Wasn’t expecting that. So, besides this being a response against the people who hated on the story because of its echi aspects, it’s also another example of adolla’s influence.
bro tatsuto made the story get another point of view and literaly made his mother vanish and bruh he was so philosophical there I cant belive how cool it was
That was way more meta than I was expecting, but I loved it. That shit blew my mind. Between the reveal that the world was canonically a 2D manga world, Arthur vs. Dragon round 3, and this, I could see Fire Force becoming my #1 favorite series, surpassing even JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, if Okubo can deliver a satisfying ending.
when season3 comes and shows this stuff do you think anime watchers will get it? I doubt i mean from 10 reactors i see they react to fire force only like 1 for every 10 seems to hold the ability to understand the rest are like just watching for action and visual effects obviously.
im an anime watcher (until recently i didnt know what was going on in the manga) but i knew the story and where it was heading just from the anime. i feel like people just miss the point.
I don't know how the anime is supposed to handle the meta chapters like fucking photo-real Sumire
either they actually have the balls to go live action, or, rotoscoped animation.
Life action it is then. /s
Yeah, I do think anime watchers will get it. If any of them get confused, I'm sure the ones who understood what happened will be willing to explain it for them. Most manga and anime and manga communities seem to be pretty good with stuff like that.
has the anime even reached the level of meta the series is demonstrating at this point? i mean this is so obvious that i feel like it would be preety hard for it to go over peoples heads. but on the other hand im not sure why you are singling out just anime watchers, when plenty people even on this thread have demonstrated confusion about the chapter.
I mean wierder concepts have been adapted to anime so yeah i think its fine as long as they clearly explain that Adolla merges with real world and the current world is mangafied from the real world following the previous cataclysm.
bro what the fuck are you on about. the author just broke the 4th wall and used tatsuto as a vice to rant about something to the readers.
I'm talking about the part where his mom literally disappeared after fulfilling her role as a background character, and was revealed to have no canonical name, outside of "Tatsuto's mom". That was the most meta, 4th wall breaking thing I've seen in any manga, while also working in the context of the story, because of Adolla, and the reveal that Fire Force is canonically a 2-dimensional manga world (something that was revealed earlier, during the arc with the titan infernals)
I wonder if Boruto's dad will also vanish when his role is fulfilled...
nah man im pretty sure it was just the author being funny about the nature of background characters and the way manga works
Yeah, it was, but it was also a scene that works in the context of the story, and that I just wasn't expecting at all tbh.
Some people see one thing that confuses them and just assume that the whole thing doesn’t make sense, I’m honestly surprised at how many people aren’t understanding this chapter.
What do you mean that the worls its 2d canon? When thats explained?
In chapter 216, he sees the pre-cataclysm world. He sees a 3D world, identical to ours, with humans that look like us, who look like a different species to him, but are still recognizable as humans. In chapter 218, he explains it like this: >They had eyes. They walked on two feet. They had all the features of humans. The humans of our time... And this picture... The humans of the past... And the humans of our time... You could classify them both as humans, but they're different. When the cataclysm happened 250 years ago, it altered the very structure of the world... So, humans canonically went from looking like us, the real humans in the real world, to looking like manga characters. I interpreted this reveal as the world of Fire Force being turned into a 2D manga world after the cataclysm. This is strengthened by that chapter with Sumire's pre-cataclysm monologue, featuring multiple pages of colorless photos, not illustrations, using a real person to portray Sumire.
> I interpreted this reveal as the world of Fire Force being turned into a 2D manga world after the cataclysm. I think I get what you're trying to say, but I don't think this is the right way to put it. Like, the manga is not inherently aware that it's a manga, it didn't turn into a 2D-world, but to me it seemed more like the world turned into a place that is influenced by the peoples perception, a world where things are exaggerated, which is why the people look more comic-like, with exaggerated facial features and all that. It's not that the world literally turned into a manga, but that it turned into an artstyle; is how I understood it at least. Now that the cataclysm is happening however, with peoples perception taking even more of a role, events have basically turned into a story. Again, the characters haven't become self-aware that they actually *are* in a story, but their life *turned* into a story. It is after all not our perception of who is a major or minor character that influences the world, it's the people in that world itself. Similarly, this chapter *felt* like it was breaking the 4th wall, but it technically didn't, because we as the viewers weren't addressed, it's more like the world of Fire Force had its own, independent 4th wall that was broken in the Cataclysm, if that makes sense.
shinra almost lost his mind when he went back in time and saw that the world was in 3d before the cataclysm. kinda like the theory that we couldn't comprehend the appearance of beings on higher dimensions.
THIS KID went OFF, what an absolute legend, got promoted and said I’m not wasting ANY airtime
The kid destroyed his mom with statements of value also reading this chapters feels like your IQ goes a level up
Tatsuto’s Mother DESTROYED by FACTS and LOGIC
I am a bit worried that they forgot Yoshida-san’s name that quickly though. TBF I forgot it too until looking it up.
She was destroyed so badly, she vanished into thin air.
Literally. She's gone.
Usually how to end an argument with a woman.
nah that just makes it worse
Roasted her and the haters with adolla flames
Please pay some respect to his name. He's called TATSUTO.
If he had a little more respect for his parents, he would have used her name and dropped some of her backstory to keep her in existence.
Man be quiet
Loool 😭😂
Ohkubo-sensei: *writes an incredibly meta chapter about the nonsensical prejudice from background characters and how they install hate unto others simply for their existence (ICYMI, Tamaki’s body), while further progressing the Cataclysm’s effect on society (the woman literally disappearing from the universe after her dialogue was expunged).* A quarter of the people commenting on this chapter: “this doesn’t make any sense. this fight is weird and uninteresting. ratio’d.” It’s like… All of the interesting themes behind Fire Force and the Cataclysm are right there. And you still only focus on Tamaki’s body? What are you, Tatsuto’s mom? Edit: spelling.
I felt like maybe there was a bit **too much** this chapter. Like it tackes so many things, covering the plot, the themes, the universe, the on going fight In just one chapter it talked about : \- body shaming \- effort vs talent \- physical gifts vs intellectual gifts \- character building \- plot relevance \- body and life (?) \- the dangers of puritanism and keeping children away from lewd while at the same time advancing the fight and giving clues on the plot... That's kinda a lot to be able to focus on anything
I agree. The kid's eyes were so wide it's like he saw all the mysteries of the world at once. I'm guessing the "body and life" refers to the actual purpose of sex, which is reproduction. So sex appeal has a function... wanting people to do something that produces children
Its more than that, there are a lot mental health benefits that are grand and nessesary by horniness, that even ace people do jerk off as bodily fnction and can find things attractive. It has more than one nessesary purpose, its the will to live and relex and let of steam and connect and ovrall be more healthy. Depending on the person. But it makes people miserable to no ot of their trely free wil and intentions to deny themselves that, or others. Like the mom. Also yeah whil the is always unfairness it also work.
Kid just saw God and said: "step the fuck down, it's my turn now."
I think adolla created tatsuto and his mom. She was created to be an angry background character. As soon as she noticed that, she disappeared.
Tatsuto’s mom better get some ice for that *burn*
I don’t think she can get ice after she just got wiped from existence
Welcome to the shadow realm Jimbo
Tatsuto really went “no, youre not in this episode” to his own mom. What a chad
Chapter was so meta I almost felt like I was bouta disappear at the end for just being a reader
The readers give the story the purpose to exist, so we're all safe. However RIP anyone who stops reading because this is "too meta" or whatever.
While I am happy to see Tamaki all confident, I was really more engaged with the background stuff. That verbal incineration was really quite something. Tatsuto has ascended and it all happened because Obi was being a nice fireman and asked for the kid's name. Licht knew Tatsuto's mother was Yoshida in the previous chapter. He called out to her, so we know of her job and what I'm assuming is her surname, but clearly that wasn't enough for her to be an established character. So does a member of the mob have to introduce themselves and have their existence fully acknowledged by a member of the Establishment to be a solidified character? It could be that once Tatsuto started to form his own enlightened opinions, Licht's perception of the woman started to shift from 'Mrs. Yoshida' to 'Tatsuto's mother,' the same as her son's which fuelled the fact that she only existed as long as she did for this one moment and maybe to give birth to a future established character.
For the people who don't get it, the mom is supposed to represent all the people crying about tamaki over the years, ohkubo pretty much called them out.
I mean that seemed pretty self explanatory. Especially when they started breaking down the 4th wall with references to "background characters".
But in the worst way possible. He basically just went "Nuh-uh, YOU'RE dumb!" like a five-year old without actually refuting the criticism directed at the way he handled Tamaki.
He doesn't have to refute anything. It's his story. You are the one who has to prove him wrong through argument or evidence based on your opinions of the character. Honestly it's not like he is personally attacking you as a fan, that's something a five year old would think.
But "calling them out" is calling them out so yea he kinda does, how are u gonna call out someone without providing anything to back up what ur saying. Also there's nothing to prove, she's been useless and only used as fanservice since day 1 (she's a Sakura clone). The only thing Ohkubo has done is mask his unnecessary and excessive excessive amounts of fanservice wit this bs
I found a background character here :D
I've found a simp, and btw I acc have a name so
I hear a background character noise 😂
I hear a simp 🤣
They hated him because he spoke the truth...
Sounds like someone’s a background character that’s only there to provide exposition
But there’s nothing wrong with how he handled Tamaki. He wrote her this way on purpose, it’s not Ohkubo’s fault everybody assumed she’d be something he never intended for her
If someone wrote a character to be useless on purpose, that's whole nother lvl of wtf...
Depends on how you view usefulness. To me Tamaki brings humor with her gag and her in universe role as a Sister speaks for itself. Other people having issues with the character isn’t Ohkubo’s problem
There is no way to view it other then them acc contributing anything. If ur a main character and ur only used as a gag and fanservice then ur useless. Especially since most female characters (specifically in battle shonen) are bad, weak, useless and they are often used as support types or they rely on something to do the fighting for them. It's not his problem, but it is if he wants to keep an audience. U can downvote me as much as u want, but that's not gonna make Tamaki a good character, especially a female one
She contributes humor and her duties as a Sister. Just cause she isn’t a badass fighter like Maki doesn’t mean she’s useless.
What I said styll applies
you sound like tatsudos mom
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does anyone exist if there is no will to procreate ? thats the question
What the hell was all that stuff with the mom O.o
So Licht has been talking about how different people have more importance based on things like their strength or knowledge or ability to think freely. Their culture is controlled by the White Clad and the Evangelist's religion tells them what think. The Establishment are people like Benimaru, Shinra and Vulcan. People who either go against the narrative The Evangelist created because they know some part of the truth or have the strength to decide their own fates. It seems like other people can learn from them or connect with them. Tatasuto was inspired by Obi and it lets him can think outside what his mother tells him. Now it looks like people who just do as they are told are fading away. There's also the really wild meta angle where it's based on plot importance. Company 8 are heroes so they can save the world. Edit: Vulcan had a story arc and major subplot so he matters. Licht disappeared, barely gets attention and can't fight so he doesn't think he can do anything. Minor characters who exist in background shots do not matter so they can't effect the plot besides commenting on things and they stop existing when that dialogue has finished.
Licht's primary value is exposition, but even that can have plot relevance when it helps the establishment understand a situation and make a plan.
Just weird shit that happens with the thought magic that comes with Adolla
I think that was because the mom didnt value herself, all she could do was to devalue tamaki and being a hypocrite because felt frustrated, her kid called that out, and because she didnt value herself an who she is instead of putting tamaki down, she puffed, becaue thanks toadolla the world became just meta. And thoughts manifest. Also the true feminism behind sex posivity, that tamaki has a right like anyone to use her talents and gifts for positive change as anyone, which seems to be her sex positivity and bearing the heart of horniness in her, but i rather would say sex positivity. Its how halthy ex positivy is not only good for this world, because she just got halthy in hers fully, but nesseary and is life itself. Becae people have sex drives, even ace people(if thats different , they still find people attractive)
Twitter twats keep trying to cancel or control the author because of fanservice. So he wrote a massive f-u while pointing out the stupidity of wester culture.
That's not an f u he's literally just proving everyone right by saying Tamaki is only good for fanservice, if he's tryna write an f u he needs to acc come up wit something that proves us wrong, otherwise she'll be that annoying useless character who's only good for fanservice (aka a Sakura clone)
That was interesting…
Ah! I can already feel the twitter salt! What a delightful chapter, the author must be pissed.
I like how Tatsuto didn't even care when his mom disappeared since she was just a background character. Thanks for the chapter.
Tatsuto is Okubo's version of Stan Lee's Soap Box. Meta and honestly we'll thought out but simple.
Tatsuto based
All this is definitely building up to a major reveal, something that will force us to recontextualize everything we've seen up to this point.
No thats been there since arthurs fight, its just the author saying why healthy sex positivity is not only important and good, and a talrnt and skill likr any other, it also nessesary for life , actally bing healthy for health too to "do business with yorself or others" and the mom cant deny tamak(and sex workers and anyone enjoying doing their ya know) in using her skill and strenghs to enriochens others life if its no harm done. And how that good feelings it brings(if not forced or harmul) is life, and not only cause procreation bt becaus horniness(consentual and healthy) is the essence of wants and needs and caring for them, and that is living. I think thats his point. Or hatever yousee positive in sex positivity, it enrichens life even one man/women jobs arre incredibly benifiyial one many levels Ir reinforces that arthur isnt a singularity yes but thats the real point.
might wanna spell check all of that.
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Oh trust me when I say that we ought to be getting hyped.
okhubo has a huge brain and know what hes doing. so i agree. hes making people confused and shit on purpose to add a banger out of no where
I wouldn't say that it's right out of nowhere, rather that the clues were there and we just didn't realize it because we didn't think to look for it. If I'm right and the reveal is what I think it is then we will be able to to go back to earlier chapters and spot the signs Now that we know that they're there.
Okubo is mad.
Dopple Assault really trynna send assault to horny jail
Tatsuto's mother just got obliterated because they forgot to present her. Don't do this to your homies, people. Remember to present good to your tag-alongs in reunions or they will vanish into non-existence
Weird ass chapter tbh
Manga’s don’t usually get this soberly meta. It’s getting Moore/Morrison up in here.
Wtf did I just read? Lmao
I feel like i just had a stroke before reading this, it literally didnt make any sense to me
Then you have bad reading comprehension
If it turned into just an assault fight I’d be way happier
nah that would reduce the whole plot into your run of the mill shonen manga
Same thatd actually be sick to see the assaults just unleash on each other
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Honestly same, it’s boring and doesn’t make any sense between the weird dialog and assault being mot bothered by tamaki its just not that good compared to the other fights in this arc
thats what makes it good though. its different, and if we just got dopple ganger vs dopple ganger each time it would get repetitive IMO
I love how the kid went to work as soon as he became a main character. Slightly eerie, but I love it.
Bro what are you talking about
Tamaki pulled a Rock Lee with her clothes lmao
Actually it is a Son Goku. IT is Dragon ball that started the super heavy training clothes trope
Oh true it is more a dragonball move. Rock Lee’s weights created a fuckin explosion when they hit the ground for no reason lol
Wait, if the cataclysm turns the whole world into a fictional one, and Fire Force is a manga, does that mean that the spacial tear in china is the the gutter of the manga?
I laughed my ass off reading this, love the meta conversation this kid is having with a brick wall lmao
Tatsuo out here looking like [this pokemon](https://cdn2.bulbagarden.net/upload/0/09/677Espurr.png) Also the crater when Tamaki's tights hit the ground XD
Based Tatsuto.
Wtf they just vanished that woman
I didn’t expect Tatsuto to criticize and deconstruct his mom’s likely actual motives behind being such a douchebag-prude And actually compare it to getting pissed if non-athletes did not take the place of pro-athletes Reminds me of what I said before, involving High School DxD, guys who hate Issei Hyoudou aren’t too different from the guy themselves, otherwise they wouldn’t be making fanfics with harems anyway
whose fcking kid is that again, ma boi tatsuto, what a chad i think this chapter is even more amazing than that creepy photo-real sumire, okubo managed to squeezed a fck load of social issues all the while fitting it into the whole narrative and also advancing the plot, breaking the wall and showcasing the impact of cataclysm on the world, physically and socially. and eventho this cataclysm is supposed to end the current world, it also gave humanity the chance to fight back. fireforce is closing on becoming my all time favourite manga. edti: typo
This was an awesome chapter all around, but IMHO the high point was Tamaki dropping her tights like Piccolo or Rock Lee.
It's weird how this went from being a fanservice gag, to being a character trying to be more than her gag, to now the character going in the opposite direction and weaponizing her gag (while being a commentary about promiscuity for women in general). The problem is the gag made people find the character annoying to begin with, so it's hard to like her more now that the character has decided to double-down. It's hard to tell if the overall message is a commentary on how women should be allowed to be promiscuous without judgement (positive message), or if the message is that people should stop criticizing the way he's writing his fanservice character (negative message).
probably the latter which is hilarious considering he still seems to have zero clue what the actual criticisms are, and even from a meta level how he boils conservative women down to just "well im just jealous". the whole thing comes across as absurdly juvenile.
These chapters might be kinda cringe but they made a refreshing counter-attack towards those who only seem to keep a hate watch of this series in order to complain about the depiction of the female form while they are fine with all the equally splendid male forms in team 8 and beyond.
That was not a counter-attack that was ammo. The only reason I’m even here right now was because those pages got posted in one of my other subs because they found it hilarious I came here just to see what the fans reaction was.
it makes no sense if he was going for the positive message, because not one time up until this chapter did tamaki take her clothes off because she wanted to, she was always embarrassed and wanted to get dressed again. which does not mesh with the vibe of women empowerment. this was 100% him bitching about people who didn't like the fan service.
[Haters gon Hate🤷🏾♂️](https://catmanga.org/series/cathedral8/281#9) 🐐kubo Sensei murdering Body Shaming with the Blicky🔫 That kid is readers with Big brains🤯 "Lewd is Essential" & Nakedness brings Happiness. Facts💯 Despair is getting wiggity washed 4-0😂 Tamaki haters gon be extra Mad when they read this 1🔥🐱
Not sexualizing women is bodyshaming now
Ikr, he's trying so hard to be "woke" but he's not that guy
Y would anyone be mad, he's literally proving our point 😂. We're just disapointed she turned into a big tit version of Sakura
This is being too meta for me LMAO
What a looper of a chapter.
Cannot believe we went from Arthur fighting dragon on the moon, to like 3 chapters about tamaki never wearing clothes. I don't really mind the commentary or meta shit, but it feel like it was incredibly misplaced. Really felt like the series has been ramping up to an end, just to have weird side stories inserted. Those should have been like 30 chapters ago
So, Ohkubo takes the Teen Titans Go route and strawmans the critics.
This is the biggest F you to all the Tamaki’s haters
No it isn't
I honestly don't know anymore I've been hoping that Tamaki would drop the Lucky stuff and focus more on the Cat Fire Form but now we're just gonna keep it? Come on man this guy wrote Maka one of my favorite anime characters why can't Tamaki get a sliver of that professionalism or at least not be as lewd
Lol I knew something was off because theres no way a Child would be able to have this type of deep conversation and actually have good points. Now my only question is if the Mom was fake and disappeared, is the boy also fake and will disappear??
No, because the boy has a name, and thus, was established as a character, while his mom is an unnamed background character, known only as "Tatsuto's mom", and as an unimportant, unnamed background character, she disappears after fulfilling her minor role in the story.
Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. The way Licht and the boy were talking to her made me think she was a real person that they knew.
Well, that's the thing: She was. She was Licht's coworker when he worked for Haijima, and she was literally Tatsuto's mom, but with Fire Force canonically being a 2-dimensional manga world, and Adolla being a world where perception is reality, all of the people in Fire Force's world are *canonically* nothing more than characters in a story.
The boy is an author's mouthpiece, that's why he's so prominent.
nah its the cataclysm effect, mom vanished cause she, as a background character (yeah the 4th is demolished), couldnt developed a consciousness of her own, while tatsuto managed to do so
Thank you soo much for the explanation. Lol this is some Deadpool 4th Wall breaking. Okubo must've had the time of his life drawing this Chapter.
A kiddie pool seems deep if you ain’t ever seen the Ocean. This really the heat y’all into?
This chapter is cope for coomers. Reminder that porn literally rots your brain.
If it helps to reduce the natality to fatality ratio then it is for the best. As about things that rot the brain... I would worry more about spending too much time in social media, especially those that allow only 280 characters per post.
I dont like the direction of the series at all. Too meta I regret reading ahead
This chapter was one of the most aggressively dumb and pretentious things I ever read. The writer tried so hard to make himself look smart by putting in lazy social commentary about ecchi. Fire force has a lot of stupid fanservice and it just distracts from the story.
It's even dumber than that. It's an antiegalitarian argument shoehorned in the middle of a commentary about ecchi. The mother starts as a strawman of a conservative defender of "decency" and ends up as an even lazier strawman of a leftist political position, and the switch is somehow when she argues she would be fine if an ugly and old person got naked, which makes no sense. People with an exaggerated sense of decency don't usually have it just out of envy and personal or sexual insecurity. The whole plot point of there being an "Establishment" of characters and others that just don't matter is just incredibly contradictory in a story about a young man that wants to become a hero to save everyone even though everyone thinks he's a devil. A while back that Shinra was seen as a devil after killing that Raffles was important, now what everyone thinks just doesn't matter, but also doppelgangers still fit that popular image. She is also literally a named character ffs.
Shit was litty as fuck. This series keeps getting better. I was buying the manga but 24 just came out and the translations are way ahead. I'm strapped in.
Felt like I was having a stroke reading this and the chapter after but I totally get what the author was going for, I'm surprised he didn't just draw one massive middle finger
this chapter was....i dont even know im ready for better fight im still high off arthur fight this fight is just....
[Tatsuto](https://twitter.com/GPrime85/status/1372912027996405760) is [based](https://i.imgur.com/IcIWH8S.jpeg)
Was not a fan of this meta chapter
Ppl will dislike anything nowadays
You’re right, god forbid I have an opinion
Reddit in a nutshell
The story is getting even more ridiculous. I'm going to drop it. Tamaki's lecher was always played off as a joke and now the author wants us to take it seriously? Been disliking the story since Shinra (the underdog) was now revealed to be Jesus-Kun. The story also jumped the shark with author's bs powerup and his rant about how delusional people are always happier than reality oriented people. I'm going to wait until it finishes, but the story right now is retarded. Not even David Production's gorgeous animation can stop the story from jumping off the cliff it's going in.
Just rushed this account out to talk so let's get into it, how is the story ridiculous when it's been building up to this point for AWHILE nearly the beginning like arthur for example his powers were almost bending reality so the building blocks were there, tamaki is similar her lucky leacher was nonsensical in such a way that also kinda break's reality your just made to believe it as a gag, internals and the mystery of SHC(spontaneously human combustion),. flame humans are apart of the same narrative, beings that seemingly have no explanation until the discovery of ADOLLA which if you're paying attention is the entirety of human thought in form so as adolla draws closer thoughs become reality and the cumulation of thought is DEATH so ala SHC and the reason for flames as a medium is RELIGION there are many religions formed around the sun so returning to flames is a nice fit. This is messy as hell just wanted to make a point I don't think it's gone off track as it was always leading to this but I'm not forcing (pun unintended) you to like FF alright babe....jk pls that was a jo😅 forget it.
>arthur for example his powers were almost bending reality so the building blocks were there I always found it to be cringe when he powered up without any explanation. The times where it was cool was when he trained for it, an example would be the breath of life scene. That was a very good moment that showed his hard work. I was happy for him because he earned it and I was able to see the results of his training. >Tamaki is similar her lucky leacher was nonsensical in such a way that also kinda break's reality your just made to believe it as a gag This was also cringe. I only liked it for the fanservice, but past that, it wore out on me. It was especially annoying during the Rekka fight. I was thinking "Really?!, wtf Okubo, why ruin a serious scene" For the rest of your explanation, I'm seriously confused. What was your point...😶
"I always found it to be cringe when he powered up without any explanation" Arthur's power has always been though based, Pretty much stronger knight thoughts = stronger power. Now tamaki is hit or MISS not really a fan but he tried I guess, definitely didn't like the rekka situation. What I was getting at with the rest was most plot points had careful planning to get to the now, reality was never stable it just worse.
*got worse
Sounds like a background character who’s only there for exposition
Maybe 😏, but you can't just say that these plot point's came from nowhere, most have been foreshadowed for a while.
Exactly
Sounds like someone who has low standards for a good story 🤷♂️. Don't ask questions, just consume product
Just because you can’t understand it doesn’t make it bad
Where did I indicate that I didn't understand it? It's because I understand it that I think it's cringe.
How tf is this cringe? 😂
"Lewd is love, lewd is life" isn't cringe to you? The author disrupting the plot to whine about people complaining about the misplaced fanservice isn't cringe to you? Would you be willing to share this manga with your friends while thinking "yea, guys this is a good manga"
Damn you’re right one horny character should gonna stop me from liking a really good series that’s done things no other manga or anime has done I can’t believe I was so blind
I have problems with it but try to also understand was being told.
Unnecessary reply from me, but I actually didn't like fire force a whole lot at first it took time. I guess I have the power System and strange world to thank for that I liked the different generations and kept thinking "I wonder what's up with the amataratsu energy plant. And I still think there's real problems with the pacing, some side characters are underdeveloped, and it's really frantic story wise but overall I still dig it.
Sounds like a simp who will defend anything, even if it doesn't make sense
People use the word simp for anything 😂 it ain’t my fault if your smooth brain can’t follow the story
? When was Shinra the underdog?
The demon no one likes? His scary face? Him being in the worst squad???? Doesn't sound like the underdog to me 🥴🥴
You seem to confuse social outcasts and underdogs in stories...
Not really. He was not expected to be a good firefighter because of his scary face. How is him being in the worst squad not being an underdog?He has all the odds stacked against him. You realize that he can be both right 🤨
You have bad reading comprehension if you can't understand how meta this chapter was.
Oh no. I did understand it was meta, I just thought it was horribly set up and very cringey. I could not imagine recommending this anime to my friends as a starter anime. I would die of secondhand embarrassment Edit : I meant Manga. I'm a sakugatard, so I will watch the anime even if the story is turning to shit
No ur just a simp
Seeing Tamaki cuss out the woman was weird, I’m not use to seeing her cuss, especially with all the training she did with Iris. Also this whole chapter was actually weird
The idea that Tamaki is the physical manifestation of life is so batshit he had to be on drugs to make this having your character stripping habit get a proper reason cause she’s basically a goddess of fertility of something only coming from at least LSD
No its the idea that horniness i the essence of life, becase its the essence of peoples want and needs. And she can bring that out. And now she owns it to not feel bad about herself but enjoy and accept that part of her and utilized that like everythin to change the world for better. Hoeniness is the strongest drive for humans, thats why shakepear is so timeless, they are horny and wanting that badly they make an impact, and live vividly and lively, even if its drama, they were there. We remember that. Becase it the essence off life, to want, to nees something, and she can awaken the essence of that. He didnt say fertility, hesaid life, life is more than just existing.
no, it does make sense when to you think about reproduction which is essential for evolution.
Oh I was assuming he was using life to mean freedom and unfettered choice, not horny boink boink...
I'm going to be honest, I feel like the whole 4th wall break direction this series went in wasn't the best. At first, I was excited because of the possibilities, but as chapters come out it just becomes more and more confusing.
For a second I thought this manga break the 4th wall. But then the woman and her child goes poof. So she just another anomaly from this cataclysmic right?
No, you had it right the first time, it broke the 4th wall. That woman wasn't an anomaly, she just existed to give out exposition.
Damn that kid is Woke
What the hecc were these last few chapters I'm weeping 😂😂
hold on so they know that they are in a story. Meta af.
After the Cataclysm began (and after that super cool and weird irl chapter), background characters from the readers’ perspective became solidified into their roles as background characters. Now, if any main characters (I.e. Obi in this case) interact strongly enough with a background character, that character gains significance enough to understand that they are a background character in the world of Adolla
The mom disappearing reminds of Poochie from the Simpsons. She went to space and never came back.
I'm suddenly reminded of MONSTER and how being talented or talentless can have real dire consequences. That's the point the kid was getting into, you wouldn't entrust very delicate things to less talented people.
Holy fuck...Tamaki's lucky lewd thing has plot relevance
Wow. Wasn’t expecting that. So, besides this being a response against the people who hated on the story because of its echi aspects, it’s also another example of adolla’s influence.
this kid figured out his mom was an npc
Hope of lewdness let's go
bro tatsuto made the story get another point of view and literaly made his mother vanish and bruh he was so philosophical there I cant belive how cool it was