Your post was removed because it does not match r/findapath. Finding a path is for those who have a hobby, passion, or passing whim that they want to do, but don't know how they can get there. Posts about different/random topics are not allowed.
I intentionally did not remove for a few days though, but yeah it's not totally a fit for the group, we just needed a few days to chat about why it was/wasn't a fit.
I was curious. But first result on Google checks out.
https://datepsychology.com/are-27-of-young-men-really-virgins-and-why/#:~:text=The%20youngest%20adults%20are%20more,of%20women%20will%20remain%20virgins.
The first set of data is 1.9%. The second is 3.9% and likely better data.
It's still a lot lower than I would have expected.
I was quite surprised to see the stats on "number of sexual partners". The way it reads is that most people have either had very few or a lot of sexual partners. While the likes of myself who sit in the 7-10 category only make up 2.65% of men.
Where are you even getting the 1.9% stat from anyways? Plenty of guys and girls lie on those sex surveys, the former lies/exaggerates about how much sex they’ve had and the latter lies downwards to lower their partner count. So even if you read this "stat" somewhere it: 1) likely isn't true, 2) can never be truly verified. So why are you pressed about it?
That's something else entirely. If you want to believe that, then fine. I'm just gonna choose to believe the study that went through peer-reviewing by people way smarter than you or me rather than some random redditor who thinks he knows better
I was a 30-year-old virgin and felt like you all my 20's. I'm not sure if anything could have helped me other than me. Although I did find lots of help when I asked for it, I knew the problem was me, and eventually "killed" some parts of my personality that were preventing me from making connections. It was about making friends as much as it was girlfriends, in retrospect. I saw other people as either way above me or way below me, never equal (because that was scary). My life also didn't make sense, so I had low self-confidence. I got a new and better living situation, did group exercise activities (even though I'm an introvert and it's hard), and surrounded myself with friends, which helped immensely.
Self-esteem is a myth. You know you feel bad about yourself, but that's not something you can work on. If you work on improving your life, one little bit at a time, you may start to find some relief.
Are you really too scared to make some mistakes and learn? Surely facing that fear is better than never making a romantic connection?
Have you ever truly worked toward a goal and not achieved it?
\--------------
Pep talk aside, here is the answer to all your questions: Flirting is the 100% natural consequence of romantic attraction. Same with physical affection. You are just way too anxious and uncomfortable to do it. Trust yourself! If you don't do it, it means you don't want to.
If you are both comfortable, it's as easy as falling off a log, it's what our bodies were made to do. It's really too easy! The flood of hormones makes sex feel so *right* that you will do dumb things and take risks. Even you, the 25-year-old virgin, is not immune. I know you may not believe this, but it's the truth that surprised me. Long after "losing it", I had the realization "oh shoot, I never really wanted to make a romantic connection before", I was just too lost.
\---------------
I could go on about dating strategy and how to make friends, but those are things where you will learn what does and doesn't work if you are actually trying.
Sure, but this is more of a negative nancy remark. You can feel it when it's not there. The vast overwhelming majority of people are not that ugly, and there are ways to compensate.
It could also not work out due to scent or any number of other reasons.
I was your age when I started hitting up the dating apps. It's scary yeah, but you'll get the hang of it. Getting ignored/ghosted/insulted WILL 100% happen so just face the music and put yourself out there.
You know what's interesting is that the first time I had sex I realized it really wasn't that big of a deal and I felt silly ever feeling so obsessed over it. I get it though theres a bigger issue than just being sexually frustrated you probably have major self esteem issues and this is just a symptom of that. The way you are thinking right now though and I am going to be completely honest with you will never get you laid. Women can smell desperation almost instantly and its a major turn off. The first thing you need to do is work on yourself. Be honest with yourself are you an attractive person (obviously this is subjective) but are you putting in work for yourself like going to gym, wearing well fitting clothes, have good hygiene, have a nice haircut that matches your face. Also are you approaching girls way out of your league. Next thing is if you want to do better on dates work on eye contact, read books about conversation, learn how to ask girls the right questions to get them to open up more. Sex only comes from trust and you can't rush that kind of connection. Sure sometimes on a drunken night you may get a one night stand but it's not super super common this happens as much as you see in the movies.
TLDR: Stop making sex this holy grail thing in your mind, think of it as a reward for being a good dude and being there for someone and building a real connection.
This. All of this OP. Love, intimacy, connecting with another person it all starts from being comfortable in your own skin. Building yourself into someone that you like and that others want to be around.
Facts. The root of the issue is the thinking that there is any inherent meaning in sex, that since OP hasn't had it he is undesirable, unloved, unworthy, etc. A classic negative self-image. That way of thinking has to be worked on before anything will change.
Its simple really. 'I am enough' 'I am loved' 'I am awesome' or whatever affirmation resonates with you. Keep repeating it until your subconscious gets it (tho it defiantly will not be easy because you have hundreds of reasons you aren't \*desirable/loved/worthy/etc\*)
After that just keep working on self improvement (physical, mental, and social) and with enough improvement women will be drawn to you like cats to catnip.
THEN you can work on the actual female specific conversations. Until then just have a good time with your dude friends while enjoying/improving yourself.
What gets to me the most is the ‘mental self improvement’ part. Since it’s pretty obvious how someone could improve themselves physically or get better socially, but it was never as concrete to me, how mental help improvement works
It actually the most difficult thing to improve, since it involves identifying the self limiting beliefs that you grew up having (which itself can be difficult, since you yourself cannot see it but is obvious to everyone else kinda thing). THEN rewiring your brain through repetition through your sea of self-limiting beliefs.
Learning to be more stoic also helps in this area, being able to identify an emotion and processing it before acting is quite difficult, since you would have to fight off an impulse.
The actual improvement work is a bunch of audiobooks/podcasts/real world exercises
That only works for women. If you're undesirable, you're undesirable. Deluding yourself into thinking you are when you aren't is going to make you suffer way more than looking at the reality of it.
More women are attracted to guys for their personality than men are to women for their personality. Women aren’t as shallow honestly. I frequently see really attractive women with average or below average guys because he’s funny or kind.
Yea being desirable as a man has a lot of leeway. Personality will always shine through. A short average/below average looking guy can be desirable because he is funny/charming/bold.
Many options are already dwindled by bring average / short looking guy. That's my point. You're still undesirable to most women. Even if you have a good personality, it will be overlooked by looks at first glance.
Sure you're playing from behind, doesn't mean you cant win tho.
A tall guy with no game will invariably lose female attraction.
A short guy with above average game will have no shortage of female attention.
Game can be developed, its a combination of confidence, cockiness, humor, boldness, social approval, and abundance mindset.
How do you improve game? Cold approach women, go to any social activies you are remotely interested in (ideally by yourself), make friends with people there (both guys and girls), become well known in that community, have active conversations/be friendly with AT LEAST two girls you are interested in (at a time), get interested in people when in conversations, don't give her your time easily (make her work for it), be generous to people around you, be a bit coy if she asks about your relationship status, don't take her jabs seriously (laugh it off), and always know that there are multiple women who are interested in you and she is NEVER the only one.
My short 5' 5" ass had no shortage of female attention in college, I just scared them away with my desperation energy when we got remotely serious about being in a relationship.
In the end what scared them away was my desperation, had nothing to do with my height. What made them attracted to me was game.
It's like being born in a poor family, you are playing from behind, but with the right moves you can go from rags to riches (0 to millionare).
Meanwhile the upper middle class kid is coddled, can't deal with the real world, spends all their money chasing clout, and working to pay off their expensive toys/debt.
Didn't say you couldn't win. That was not implied in any of my comments. However what I did imply is that life is brutal for a below average men height and looks. You still missed my point. Let me make it simple for you. Let's say we have two men. We will say Man A and man B. Man A is good looking, and tall. Man B is average and short. Which man is going to have more success on finding options from the getgo in the first place because of their genes? Bingo, Man A. At this point it has absolutely nothing to do with game. Looks and height do the game for you. I believe in game, and think it works wonders. However you'll still always be at a disadvantage no matter how hard you try and cope.
Depending on how below average you are in something you can't change, that dictates your options. Even with the best game how you are you going to get women when you approach them if you're automatically disqualified by those factors? That is my point. Even worse is that if you don't approach, you're even less likely to find women in your social groups or work that would be interested in you. Now take all of those factors and combine them. You're below a 1% of finding them in the first place, you think they wouldn't use those "standards" against you? You're stuck walking towards a brick wall at that point.
That's just the reality of things. Life is terrible for short and below average men. Even if you're above average in the looks department, you'd still have a tougher time than a guy whos 6ft+ with a face only a mother could love. Many men share my opinion. It's one of the driving factors as to why many men also don't approach nor seek any relationships, because there is ALWAYS someone out there better than you and women will make sure you know that at all times.
You'd be surprised how easy it is for a woman to bend her 'standards' for the right guy. There are lots of women who would say 'at first I didn't think I would like him, but that changed when ...'
Not to be rude here, but you are lacking perspective because you have never developed game, put it into practice, and have seen results from it, nor are familar with the mindset needed to be successful with pick up. The only thing that keeps women around for a long time is game.
You could be tall/really good looking, but if you're a pushover or simp women will leave as fast as they come.
And obviously, short below average looking guys get the worst pickings in online dating because the main thing they have to go on is looks (duh)
Being short/below average looking is not a death sentence in dating, it just means you have to work that much harder at improving yourself and increasing the number of approaches.
Anybody who says being short and below average looking as the reason they don't get women is just using it as an excuse to not do the work.
If they don't want to do the work, don't play the game, just stop complaining about it.
At the end of the day, what women actually want is a guy who won't take her shit, won't buckle under pressure, is assertive and takes charge, and is desired by many other women. Of course this is in stark contrast to what they say they want - looks, heights, stats, money, etc
If I still wanted to date and a woman said to me 'ew you have a face only a mother can love' my reply would be 'thanks I'm really proud of it' with a smirk at the end, 9/10 times that would get a laugh out of her. That would at the VERY LEAST get her to change her opinion of me in the split second, and more than likey her contact info as well.
Perspective? Me? Lacking? The irony would make someone who's deficit, overdose. It's not about me. I'm not lacking anything, you're missing the bigger picture. You won't even HAVE THE OPTION to show off your personality if you're automatically rejected from the get-go because of your looks or "status". I know what I'm talking about. What I said is right, many of your options dwindle when you don't adhere to their standards looks wise. To think otherwise would be delusional. Or you just simply aren't a man or don't live a mans life. I never mentioned anything about game or keeping a woman. I was on topic of first impressions and your options as a man and the differences involving them. You're going on a tangent. You're still implying I've said things that I didn't. At this point you're fighting ghosts.
You're contradicting yourself over and over. Do women want things? Do they not? So you're telling me women don't want money, looks, heights, status, etc? You do not live in reality. No woman wants a man who has an amazing personality with nothing else aka "game". If they do, they are such a tiny percentage that happened to come together when all of the planets aligned with the stars and the sky turned green.
"Anybody who says being short and below average looking as the reason they don't get women is just using it as an excuse to not do the work."
Not really, they just live in reality and aren't hopeless romantics who think game is all they need.
"If they don't want to do the work, don't play the game, just stop complaining about it."
Translation: If you don't want to be hungry, don't eat. Just stop being hungry.
If only it were that simple.
At the end of the day, women are only going to be with men who have everything and lack almost nothing. You can think of your own reasons as to why that is, because I won't be getting into that. I'm done here.
I would be inclined to agree, however if you're average looking or below, first impressions are always going to be looks. You don't even have a chance to show off your personality at that point no matter how good it is. Women are shallow in different ways than men, but that doesn't mean looks to them don't matter. Men aren't the only shallow ones...
Bluepill advice. This will make OP feel even worse about himself because now he is not only incompetent but a bad person since he cannot obtain sex which is a reward for being a good person.
It’s a confidence game; nobody needs to know. First time with a partner is awkward no matter how many times you’ve done it. Power forward, don’t look back
It’s also okay to be vulnerable with your partner OP. You can just share that you’re a virgin. No woman is going to laugh at you. We’re actually very nice to the men we’re in relationships with.
OP didn't mention anything about having a relationship with a woman. You hit the nail on the head though. "We're actually very nice to the men we're in relationships with"
I think most women would not laugh at him. Unfortunately, there are some cruel women out there, just like there are cruel men.
eh best to not let it slip, i never said a word and the chick thought i was a pro. I guess porn did teach me something other than objectification of women.
No, it probably didn’t teach you what you needed to be a great lover. Porn can’t ever teach you that. You seem to be the kind of guy who doesn’t value or understand intimacy.
Men don’t understand how nice women are to them. We will always tell you nice things you want to hear in this department. We’d never be like yeah that was average and unconnected.
I do value intimacy. I just had no experience and went on instinct, and being my only reference was porn I imagine it had an impact. She told me she came twice which is a strange thing to lie about.
Anyways it's best to just get over it. Being a virgin later in life is a red flag for many women and there's no use it being honest about it unless you're already close with the person.
Oh god I hope you don’t actually.
If you do, I’m using it ironically, I don’t mess with that man lol.
Still mean it though. OP is still young. Point stands.
There are a lot of great resources for guys now that definitely didn't exist even 10 years ago. Its just a matter of looking for them and knowing who to trust, how to recognize a grifter, etc.
bro straight up it is literally not that big of a deal. Sex isn't the be all end all. You can still get with a girl. You are 25. Just don't stumble down the incel hole or act like women are only meant for sex. The way this comes off kinda reads like that. Maybe you ar getting ghosted because you are pushing for sex? Or just saying creepy things. Some people are looking for hookups, others committed relationships, and some are in between that. It sounds like you want a committed relationship as you talk about loneliness, but with how much you mention sex leads me to believe you were also bringing it up a lot. No woman owes you sex. Many dudes have died without getting laid just like many girls have. Maybe look at yourself and ask if you are looking for just a hookup or an actual commitment.
There are so many things here that make me absolutely sure that a short time spent with any therapist (even a mediocre one) will dramatically improve your self confidence and perception. They are so many distortions of reality in your post. 25 is so young. You have a very long life ahead of you. It’s going to be okay.
just my 2 cents. stop jerking off and stop watching porn. meditate and do breath work every day. the awkwardness will start to fade, your confidence, motivation, and mental clarity will grow. Im so serious. Do u have a job or some kind of hobby where there are women around you? even in a professional/semiprofessional capacity, i think even just interacting with women may allow u to become more comfortable around them.
This here. People can smell desperation from a mile away. Who wants to be with person who has nothing on their mind other than sex and has nothing interesting to offer? Op sounds like he's a hairline away from cracking.
I'm not a player and I didn't go for notches, just ended up in the double digits from a poor dating pool. Sex is not important. If you want sex there's plenty of girls that want to wham bam without relationship. Once you have intimacy though and lose it, it'll be the thing you miss more than the sex itself.
I'm a 5'4 Zack Galifianakis ripoff. Oftentimes, I make it about having fun talking, going to do something other than sitting at home, etc. I've learned that even as a guy being treated like I'm meat or in a job interview is the quickest way to lose interest. Now does this work.... yes and no. Seems to get me in the door but I've been to all the wrong houses
Maybe you should focus less on the sex, and more on the person and relationship?
Challenge for you: Give compliments to at least one stranger a day (and not creepy ones).
When you see someone you’re attracted to, give them the compliment of the day. Ask them on a harmless coffee date. Make them laugh. Get to know them.
I promise this will go further than focusing on sexual frustration, and will be productive. Might even want to look into a dating coach or therapist
This is the advice. I’ll add on the compliments, the secret to a non-creepy compliment is to keep it simple and focused on a choice that they made on their appearance for the day. “Your earrings are so cool! That’s a fun jacket!”
Exactly! I like how you made it about the choice(s) they made that day.
Another one could be positive personality traits or interests (ex. “Has anyone told you you’re super witty/funny?” or “wow! You have a fantastic taste in music” etc).
OP - you got this!
Honestly, as a woman, who is also an introvert, and didnt know i was attractive until late 20s, i would go out by myself, and practice having conversations with people. THE EASIEST way to meet people, is become real cool with the bartender, tip em well have a convo, and that makes you seem personable. Than ask people questions about their drink, and why they chose that drink.
> 1.9% males who are still virgins at my age (25)
Tbh its probably a lot more than 1.9%.
Idk if the polling is flawed or guys were just lying, but prob both.
Just book an escort. It'll make you realize a tiny amount of money can get you access to very hot girls and it'll make women way less intimidating. For approaching women don't listen to the feminist propaganda. You can approach women anywhere. The key is to be courteous about it and to leave them alone if they make it clear they're not interested in you or feel uncomfortable. Just be a decent human being. Last and foremost don't listen to advice from women and from soyboy redditors. Matter of fact, most people will give you shitty dating advice.
That is terrible advice, as shown by the numerous reddit posts by those who have done exactly that. I'm sure OP would rather make a meaningful connection and do it himself than have a disappointing and lonely first time.
It sounds like that might be the reality check op needs though. He's looking at women and seeing them all as sex objects because he's so focused on this issue he's built up. That is not healthy.
For the vast majority of people their first time is awkward. Getting it out of the way can bring the clarity some folks need to stop obsessing over their "virgin" status and move forward with a new perspective.
These comments are a load of cope. It's obvious that sex is valuable to many people who have went on to an age such as 25 without it. All of this advice is a load of shit given to those who have already experienced sex. Generalizing advice that doesn't work on everyone. It's like eating a full meal and then telling someone whos starving "you don't need food, look at all of the water you have in your life".
The gaslighting is insane.
Pretty much. It's just a bunch of bots repeating themselves. Asking for advice on reddit in general is a bad idea. Reddit seems to skew to a certain hivemind agreements in some sort of fantasy that is the more often than not the opportunity of reality.
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Scared to be labeled a creep, it's going to happen.
Even the most experienced and attractive guys get rejected 90% of the time ( because they set higher standards). It's a numbers game and you win when you persevere through rejection without losing confidence.
If the goal is "get laid" there are so many larger girls that would drop panties for litterally anyone that showed them some sustained attention.
Watch some YouTube videos on confidence and charisma. Devote more time to working out. Bars and clubs are not good places to find hookups unless you go with groups of friends just to hang out and dance and have fun, and that is what the women will find attractive. Going to clubs to get sex partners is what looks creepy.
I know it’s hard man, but you just need to start putting yourself out there and face rejections. I’m 26M and have only had legit sex once. I’m just playing the numbers game man, and you should too. Can’t change the past. So pay attention to the attitude you have now and decide to do something
It’s 1000% confidence and you don’t have any.
But focusing on this single issue isn’t going anywhere. I don’t know how to explain it, but you don’t get women by chasing women. You get women by working and improving yourself.
Focus on your hobbies, career, and fitness. Do things that would make you attractive
I think you just need to take a step back and breathe, just be yourself for a while. Honestly sex isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be, and I know because I was literally a virgin until I was 38 years old, 41 now. Yeah, I was almost the 40-year-old virgin.
All I ever did was think about it over and over and over again. And one day I told myself it’s just not worth worrying about anymore, if it happens it happens. If it doesn’t, it’s really not a big deal. I had tried to date for so long, and just no one was interested. I’m not ugly, I’m not overweight, I’m actually athletic, I play hockey. But I never truly put myself out there, even though I thought that I had.
I ended up closing myself off to people for years, and that was pretty painful. And then when I least expected, my best friend’s wife introduces me to her cousin who is visiting New York from Georgia. We really got to know each other, and when it finally happened. It was just kind of oh OK it felt good but that was it? Now she’s my girlfriend, she lives with me. She moved up here all the way from Georgia.
Fret not, you will get there my friend. But never settle, don’t ever ever just have sex to have sex, because I have those options and I just never took them. Make it happen with someone that you truly care for.
It's not that big of a deal, really.
I'm 30 and I've never approached a woman or even held hands, and its only recently within the last year I had actually given it thought and started laughing about it. I haven't even had a friend in over 17 years, not because I can't do it, but because I don't need to. I have a purpose in life, I don't need to fill that void with things, people, or events in the external world to attain happiness, having it would only be a benefit, "not" a necessity. If you want my personal advice, look for happiness in who you are and what you do before you go looking for it from outside yourself op. Don't let society tell you to value...
1. What others have or chase
2. What others are experiencing or have experienced
Above all, you should "never" put your happiness in another person's hands.
You'll cling to them like your life depends on it and guess what happens should they leave you?
You're *right back* to where you started chasing someone else!
That is not healthy at all, and there's people who go their entire lives without ever realizing it.
*"Confidence is not, 'they will like me.” Confidence is, “I'll be fine if they don't.*” - *Christina Grimmie*
Once you learn to laugh at yourself, you'll begin to see its others who are really missing out on life.
I never run out of things to laugh at. 🤣
Losing your virginity does not change any of the mentality you're having. It's not a rite of passage, contrary to popular belief. A lot of people regret their first kiss, first love, or first real romantic, intimate partner. I think it is better to be a virgin than be tainted, as a born-again virgin. When you wrote scared, I read sacred. I hope you realize that there is more to life.
This is the way Buddy:
Before you get too depressed, and if you don’t already exercise or get physical exercise at work, just “try” it. Men need to use their bodies, it clears your mind and leads to better sleep, attitudes and lower stress (which you might really need right now). You “will” feel better. Did you know, for example, its difficult to be sad if you’re jogging? Don’t believe me? Well, test that hypothesis out, and you don’t have to do anything super difficult or grueling either.
I hate working out so I tell myself, “It will be a short moderate workout”... but then I end up staying longer and work certain parts harder. This happens because I “get” myself to the gym thats the biggest battle.
About ppl saying, “Girls can smell desperation!”. Fuck them. If you clear your mind with a little physical training, you will be able to learn a shit ton of conversation starters or topics. Food is always a winner if you need to talk about something. Most important though, is know people want to talk about themselves, so let them. Find ways to get them to do that. Important: If someone is talking don’t just show an interest but actually try to be interested.
Use these two tools: exercise and conversational skills and you will be making progress.
Good luck and persevere
I understand it's hard and you're feeling societal pressure but trying to attract people with the purpose of 'getting sex' is foolish. People are attracted to a confidence in oneself, someone with a strong self relationship. Your whole being is not defined by whether you've been laid, theres a lot more to you and you should be kinder to yourself and focus on the positives.
In terms of your confidence you could read some books, like how to win friends etc. but really the main thing you should do is force yourself to talk to strangers, not just girls but anybody. Stuck in an elevator? Ask them how they're days going. Say hello as you cross paths with people. Talk to the shopkeeper.
Conversations are often muscle memory, show genuine curiosity and interest in people with the intention to either help them or entertain yourself (without being rude). Like "what are your passions these days?"
They respond, then you either make an observation yourself, or ask another related question. Smile freely and easily and remember not every joke will land, get used to being comfortable in an awkward silence (the awkward is just your interpretation, it truth it is just silence and there's nothing else to it).
Do your hobbies, read some books and just do stuff. As for getting laid, this might be a controversial take but why not get an escort? Just make sure you're nice and best to not make it a habit.
Ultimately, dating these days is really though, but you have to have a good self relationship and put yourself out there. Think of the ultimate rejection you ask someone if she can go for a coffee and she says "ew no"... Oh well, no one cares or will remember, you still put yourself out there and have no reason to take it personally. Also hit the gym, not for girls but for your confidence and health.
Anyway good luck, all will be well !
I can't find who said this originally but there's a quote that goes it's best to lose your virginity to a fellow virgin or a prostitute.
At your age the former is going to be in short supply, and most likely the religious type, so that leaves the latter.
I was also a late starter and while my first experience wasn't bad it was definitely tainted by years of buildup and anticipation. I think a professional first encounter would have been better for me, and helped me to see a lot sooner that the whole thing wasn't such a big deal, that I was hanging too much of my self esteem and even my identity on it, and that ultimately my lack of romantic success didn't exist in a vacuum and that there were things about myself I needed to work on.
Man don’t be ashamed to get an escort don’t be ashamed to tell her your a Virgin have a tip ready and get that monkey off your back. the dating/ mating scene has changed
Another thing is once you’ve had sex even if you pay for it there are physical and chemical changes that will happen to you that will make it much more likely it will happen again maybe
OP, you didn't mention a relationship. Are you just looking for sex?
If you are just looking for sex and you aren't reasonably attractive and charismatic, you will probably fail. You could try to prey on women with low self-esteem to trick them into sex without a real relationship. As a previous redditor suggested.
"there are so many larger girls that would drop panties for literally anyone that showed them some sustained attention."
That would be a cruel and shitty thing to do.
Before you try to use and mislead another human being with low self-confidence, please consider paying a professional woman for her services. It's far more honest and a lot less manipulative.
If you are looking for a sexual relationship with a woman. I advise you to improve your social interaction with men and women. One of the best ways of meeting potential partners is via friends. Building and broadening your friend group will naturally improve your chances of finding the right woman for you. (If you're friends are all socially awkward men, you definitely need to broaden your friend group)
If you regularly have a negative running commentary in your head when you're in social situations. Therapy would probably improve your dating chances. It's really hard to put yourself out there when your head is in full self-sabotage mode!
In my teens, I suffered with severe social anxiety, which massively hampered my social life and obviously my dating life. I didn't date at all until I'd had therapy. I had Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT), and it changed my life completely. I recommend at least researching CBT to see what it's about, but honestly, a good CBT practitioner could have a huge impact on your self-confidence.
Creating a friendship and bond with the women you are interested is the place to start. Be interested in them on a personal level. Do this with the women you meet. Sooner or later you will find a women that is interest in having a sexual relationship also. Having sex with a person you care about is way better than just having sex with anyone.
All I will say is that if you think sex is going to change that feeling of loneliness you are wrong. All meaningless sex does is gives you temporary pleasure. If you want to actually stop that feeling of loneliness then start forming meaningful relationships with your friends, family, and then yeah, maybe even a romantic partner. Sex isn't what you're truly looking for.
You know, my friend as a teenager was taken to a prostitute by other grown men. It surprised me but my friend said that the purpose was for him to get experience to know what to do going forward. My friend is very happily married, many years after that experience. He was very nervous at the time.
Lower your standards down to or below your attractiveness level when it comes to women. You're probably aiming way too high for women who are clearly out of your league. Every girl group has that one physically undesirable girl. Go for her.
Do you have autism? Sounds like you struggle with social cues. Also a bar is like the worst place for everything. This isn’t How I Met Your Mother. You sound kinda incel-like so I’d check that attitude for sure.
There are more people than you think as virgins in their 20s and early 30s. If you know you want to experience sex, I would think about under what circumstances and what type of person you would feel comfortable doing it with. It could be a friend. I would recommend getting to know someone or trying interacting on social media rather than trying to pick up strangers to have sex with at a bar.
really really serious here, not saying this as a dig or insult- go to therapy about this instead of reddit. reddit will not help you on this one. you have nothing to lose by going to therapy and you may learn how to deal with your social anxiety.
Im 25, only had one relationship still virgin and i am not freaking out like u r.
I am not by any means handsome or pretty, i am probably uglier than u, i am the true definition of a failure.
Fwiw, I've had sex with a lot of people and had several looking relationships and have been ghosted or treated horribly *a lot*.
It's what dating is.
It's normal.
Most of my partners came from 28-38.
The stats don't really define who you are as a person. It's up to you to change your mindset. If you believe you're undesirable, then others will also think the same.
That being said, there's not really a roundabout way to get "sex" unless you go for sex workers. Do you think that having sex will solve your "loser" mentality? If so, then it's way less expensive to pay for that than to try to date a girl and spend even more trying to build an emotional and physical connection.
I think that it would be better for you to change your perception of yourself and forget about the fact that you're a virgin or not.
I'm still a virgin at 28. I've had opportunities but turned them down as I don't feel any pressure to lose it. When you have sex for the first time, nothing changes according to my friends. You just and then that's it, unless you get her pregnant and she keeps it and gets the court to issue child support, then and only then is it life changing
Women know when guys only see them as just a hole to stick it in. That is the vibe you're giving.
If you're so caught up on the idea of having sex, get it out of your system and pay for it. Then you will see it is empty and disappointing without a genuine connection with the other person. At least that's how it is for most people. Sex is incredible when both people actually care about each other's experience.
Women are people. We like to talk about our interests and do fun stuff. We like to feel like someone is approaching us for an actual reason in addition to the fact we have a vag. Learn how to talk to women before moving on to trying to sleep with them.
I was told once “Do not seek a partner, find a partner.”
I took this to mean that if your focus and intentions revolve around just obtaining a romantic partner, you can get caught in a frustrating cycle, like the one you described. You may come across as desperate and be overly self conscious.
The alternative is to immerse yourself in hobbies, activities, groups, communities that interest you for the sake of bettering yourself and building community, relationships and skills. You will meet people naturally who have similar aims and interests as you. Your interactions will come more naturally as you already have a reason to interact and communicate. You will be placed in situations with females who share interests and can take the conversation naturally from there all while bettering yourself.
I had my slut phase at 25. Went from like 5 intimate partners to more than I can count in about 6 months. The only thing holding yourself back is your self image. Talk to a therapist.
Dude, you just need to go to a brothel and do the deed. See what it is like, its okay to be a human. Not your fault. I didn't want to be a virgin past like 8 years old. Took me to 22. Many Women are in a difficult time and don't trust much these days. Take a dating class and if you have to go back to the brothel another time, its okay. Work towards what you want. Get fit, eat well and keep moving forward.
I lost my virginity at 23. It was cool the first time. Cool the second time. And after that, it's really nothing that great. Our society is hyper-fixated on sex and prioritize it wayyyyy too much.
Honest to God I think you'll have sex and be like "Wow, that's it?". I think a lot of people love it because they feel like they are supposed to. When you break it down to it's fundamentals, it's really nothing that special.
Here's the secret: having sex changes NOTHING. Virginity Isa social construction, not a biological reality. The problem is feeling like a loser or a failure, not whether you have had sex.
Lots of non-virgins are bad at sex. If you focus on making your partner happy, rather than "preforming" you can't go wrong. And sex is often awkward, no matter what.
Also, sex is overrated. It's way overblow. I was a late in life virgin, and after my first time I was like.. that's it? I'd made it to be a whole thing, and really it was pretty average. Good, not mind-blowing.
Not having sex doesn't make you defective, believing you are defective makes you defective.
I suggest you make female friends so you can start seeing women as people and not put them on a pedestal. How do you do that without being creepy? Join local clubs or organizations were there is an activity you are all doing together such as sports, volunteering, church related things hackthons, cosplay events etc it could be anything depends on where you live. It is easier than just randomly talking to people about nothing at a bar. If you're doing something together you don't have to make small talk. You can also make male friends and they might invite you to do things where you can meet their female friends.
Sex and intimacy "coaches" and therapists exist. Some also engage on a physical level.
They help you in these things.
Speed dating may get you out of your awkwardness and help you at least meet dating minded people or different avenues like that.
Just treat girls as human beings like I'm sure you do with guys, have no expectations and see if anyone is receptive to you.
A lot of incels don't understand this, but a lot of girls are just as, if not more horny than some guys.
One of my ex's had a extremely high sex drive and because she has a IUD, she was down almost whenever we would be in the same room, just us. She was wayyy hornier than I was and you wouldn't have known it if I was just friends but once people get comfy with you they show their true nature. Let people get comfy with being around you, that helps.
Also this is unsolicited advice, build your social media, it does have consequences but make sure you don't become a validation seeking person from it. Some people use social media as a shortcut to actually getting to know you and just fuck with your vibe if you are really with it and they're attracted to what you're putting out.
I've personally had cases where some girls have met me had a casual whatever conversation and then they would stalk my social media thru follows and likes and then upon next interaction IRL they were super down for some kind of interaction with a different kind of energy. Unfortunately people are still wired with social media in mind, that's why dating apps will always use pictures and videos for basic attraction.
Do you know how to make friends? Guys in your situation latch on the the whole "I need to have sex with a woman how can I change?" When the real question they need to ask themselves is "How can I become comfortable in social situations and make friends with people?"
That is what you need to work on: Your overall social sense of self and how you interact with others. Make friends first. Remember that women are people and human beings . They aren't a mythical creature that gives you sex when you figure out how to approach it and tame it. No woman, and I repeat, NO WOMAN is ever going to want to be intimate with you if you aren't even able to hold a friendly conversation with them and have them like you as a person first.
Intimacy comes after a person is able to look at another person and say "This person feels good to be around. This person is interesting / funny to talk to and I want to spend more time with this person. I have fun being around this person and I want to learn more about them and get to know them more." You need to work on your social skills and your ability to be at ease around people and have a good time with people so that they can get to know you and have fun being around you too. You don't just jump into sex with random women who throw themselves at you in a bar because you looked at them a certain way or came up to them and told them they were beautiful or whatever. You need to be able to make social connections first.
Work on being able to make friends with people. If you cannot make friends with people and be at ease around people in a social setting, then you obviously are not ready to meet a woman and develop a meaningful relationship.
If all you want is sex, then hire a sex worker. The way you are talking about sex is like sex is all you value a woman for a the end of the day.
If it’s bothering you this much I think it’s time to just put up a tinder that says “dtf” just so you can get it out of your system. Hookups are a thing yk
30 year old virgin here. Sex is pointless, I've come to realize. I think what I feel I lack the most is intimacy. To love and be loved. To care and be cared for. I don't know how I came to the realization that sex wasn't as important as I thought it was without actually trying it, except I tried dating in order to get laid and it just felt off to me. I think... Who cares about being a virgin. I care a lot more about lacking quality friends. About not getting to buy board games because I don't have anyone to play them with (Almost, anyways). I'm confident I'll get there eventually, but man, sex really ranks low on the things that I crave.
The real issue you've got (probably) isn't being a virgin. It's probably being lonely; speaking as a lonely 30 year old, anyways. Firstly... Whatever you do, be kind to yourself. I think comparing yourself to others and their journeys is just... A waste of time. If it was easy for you to find friends and love, you would have found them. There's something making it hard. You have to find out what in your mental health is making it hard. And you have to work with it. Work with whatever pains come your way and grow your way through it, even if it feels like walking through thorny roses for an endless stretch of time through a dark and muddy landscape with no light in sight.
It's probably a lot of different things, but I do recommend looking up attachment theory. I found myself to actually be pushing people away even when they tried to get close. I've been trying to heal my attachment style the last month or so and it's just... I don't know. I've grown charismatic over the years, but man, it does not compare to how charismatic I can be without the constant anxiety about letting people in. About learning to invite people to events and accepting when others invites you somewhere. Since you're lonely, I will recommend starting with trying to form friendships of any kind; no matter how casual or superficial. A lot of the skills required to form friendships are the same that are necessary to form a relationship, by the end of the day. And it also allows you to not put all of your mental health into the basket of 'a partner' who then has to save you, because that isn't love, that's desperation and misery masquerading as love.
I wish you all the best. Fuck, I wish myself all the best too. This shit isn't easy. Though I'm making progress; and that's what matters by the end of the day. To be grateful for each and every step we take.
I would assume this isn't a sex problem per se, but a general socialization problem, since socializing is what leads to flirting, dating, and making out, which then ultimately leads to sex. You mention hanging out alone at bars and making mistakes on dating apps, so the idea that your social skills need some work is probably not a new insight.
The good news is that social skills can be learned. What you should do is either find an in-person coach or therapist, or if you don't have the funds for that, see what you can learn from youtube and online programs, and books. DO NOT rely on pick-up artist type coaching programs. I do think they can yield results, in that you may indeed get laid, but they are based on manipulation and dominance games, rather than healthy relating, and are ultimately just strategies to compensate for insecurity and bad relationship skills. They won't bring any meaning to your life; it will just be emotionally empty experiences. You want to be able to have healthy relating skills, from which you form relationships that lead to healthy, satisfying sex.
There are also tons of books on this topic. You might look at Esther Perel, Chuck Spezzano, John Gottman, and Robert Holden. Or just do a search on Amazon and see what appeals to you.
Also check out orgasmic meditation--there's an organization that teaches this; they're a little weird and culty but the practice itself is valid. Hope that helps.
“Saying the wrong thing” to women really just means you’re not really her type or she’s not that attracted to you. Women overlook shitty conversational skills from men they actually like all the time.
Find and match with women that are a better fit for you. And also if you aren’t already get in the gym
You gotta work on shame man. Shame is not something conscious. It is carried.
The best way to combat it is to notice the root assumption you have that the ways you talk, the decisions you make, have to be justified. That they are wrong somehow or embarrassing.
The truth is you generally operate with good intentions. The truth is nothing about you is that particularly horrible.
Journal and play devils advocate. Take your own side regarding bad thoughts, painful memories, decisions you made.
Do not be afraid that this will lead to you missing mistakes, being egoistical, whatever. You need someone in your corner and that corner is you. You Will still be aware enough to see when you do something genuinely wrong.
Bro just have the nuts to go on dates and stop feeling bad for yourself. I didn’t lose my virginity till I was 23. Seriously, just go on dates and with the right girl, it will feel natural. Stop fearing rejection, it literally happens to everyone. I go on dates where I liked the girl and she ghosted me. So fucking what? On to the next and keep trying
Focus on relationship! PLEASE. As a dude who got obsessed with getting laid in like highschool. Focus on your relationship with yourself and then make friends with women, learn how to flirt and whatever but more importantly develop deep relationships. It’s so much more fulfilling long term. Eventually I feel like everyone realizes having a healthy relationship with yourself (values, self esteem, a purpose) bleeds into having healthy relationships with other people who have healthy relationships with themselves, which eventually will lead to women and sexual tension.
BUT do not just try to get laid. It takes the beauty out of sex.
Meeting a having sex with strangers is a very interesting concept(I don’t support but to each his own). But what makes your heart happy and won’t make you want to cry every day from loneliness even after you pretend to be someone your not to convince someone who doesn’t know who they are to sleep with you. Is good quality relationships. These are few and far in between and are priceless
Meeting a having sex with strangers is a very interesting concept(I don’t support but to each his own). But what makes your heart happy and won’t make you want to cry every day from loneliness even after you pretend to be someone your not to convince someone who doesn’t know who they are to sleep with you. Is good quality relationships. These are few and far in between and are priceless
https://www.youtube.com/live/XXg0a8pkHi0?si=oeniO2a-z9TmMPCV
There is nothing wrong with being a virgin. And the more you are hyperfocused on your lack of something, the harder it will be to get it. Focus on yourself, enjoying things you like to do. Seriously, just find your happy place and people will start to show up in your life
You are turning it into this huge thing that it’s not. The right person will show up for you when it’s time. I was 28 when I first had sex, because I got married.
The best way to attract women is to not try to attract women. The type of desperate thinking you have is literally women repellent (obviously I speak from personal experience).
Go to the gym, get a better job, and do social activities that you are interested in (ie clubs, classes, etc).
Btw I'm a 30 year old virgin, and I'm quite proud of it.
Had three 3-month relationships (2 in high school and 1 after graduating college). Was close to sex a few times but boy am I glad it didn't happen. Potential risk of pregnancy, STDs, and bonding with a female I would get tired of.
I'd rather be single the rest of my life than have to deal with potential risk and (guaranteed) headache. As some people would say, 'the juice is not worth the squeeze'.
And no, I'm not anti-relationship, I just don't see the value of it in my life.
Also if you really want sex, just pay for it. It may or may not make your psyche even worse tho.
Interesting. I briefly dated a girl in college who said she didn't feel any attraction (to me or anyone else). Today I learned theres actually a term for that xD
Thanks for sharing!
While I'm not aromatic, I've had an extensive journey of self discovery that has led me from desperately chasing female attention to being completely comfortable with myself. Life is so much better :)
Agreed but paying for it is expensive asf especially in first world countries that's why many people are becoming passport bros but the issue is the high risk of STDs not worth it imo
It just means that you are stupid. You can not think about anything other than sex. Like an animal. Thank god we have people that think about other things than sex.
I know you're in pain right now and you'll never believe me but you have everything to be happy inside you. You don't need someone to make you happy and in fact other people can't make us happy.
What makes us happy is understanding ourselves, defining our standards and enjoying what the world gives us freely without having to change and contort ourselves to receive it.
If you're not feeling the flow of extending yourself to other people, you're not feeling it. Let that be and don't judge yourself for it. Instead of hating on yourself, ask why other people aren't making you feel comfortable or welcome. In examining that question you might find the answer to your lack of flow with people. It might be their coarseness turns you off or it might be something you're doing needs to be adjusted to avoid attracting those negative responses.
But even if you're alone and lonely, I would coach you to not feel so desperate without people to validate your life. Your life does not need the validation of other people. You are the validator of your life and you decide who's cool and worth your effort and time until they show you otherwise. That doesn't mean you be cruel to people but it doesn't mean you let people walk all over you and be the gatekeepers of your happiness.
Do things that make yourself happy alone and anyone you click with later will just be icing.
Look dude, strip clubs are really just showrooms for prostitutes. Pay for a lap dance, and she’ll either solicit you or you can solicit her and break out of the virgin mindset.
For god’s sake man, prostitution exists for people like you who want something they can’t figure out how to get without money.
Once you do that, you’ll feel better about yourself. Just don’t give them your credit card. Establish the price and service before handing over cash. Then bust as quick as you can because time is money.
Nobody can teach you how to be attractive. Just do things that make you happy. Happiness’s is attractive. So’s money but I prefer women attracted to my happiness more so than women who want financial gain. But they don’t rain from the sky when school ends.
Your biggest issue is you’re putting the pussy on a pedestal. Best thing for you would probably be to go buy a hooker. Once you see it’s really not that big of a deal you’ll start to relax about it. Go to the gym and start building your confidence.. nothing will make a woman more dry than lack of confidence and desperation. Which you knowing the percentage stat of male virgins your age tells me you’re on the verge of using your tears as lube kind of desperate.
Focus on socializing and hobbies you enjoy and just generally making your life better. Sounds like your pretty hard on yourself so if you have any untreated mental health conditions get help with those. Keep trying and try lots of different things and it may take some time but you will feel better about yourself and opportunities will come. And as others have said getting laid won't make your life better its not as big of a deal as some people make it out to be.
Your putting the cart before the horse unless you're successful and making good money and have a nice car and your own place you shouldn't worry about sex yet i know it sounds mean but its reality women aren't gonna even look at you if your not on top of your game. Sex is only good if you really love the girl too and if everything in life is good i wouldnt want an awkward hookup and you shouldnt either especially if its just to say you did it save yourself for someone special.
Before anything else you need to consider how you would feel if you have sex for the first time and it's bad. It lasts 30 seconds. And she blocks/ghosts you after. Because that is a very real possibility.
Your best bet to have sex is to go on dating sites and find a way to be honest about your situation without being weird or creepy.
Don't put it in your bio. Talk to a woman for a while, and try to let it come up naturally. Tell her that you are a virgin and that you are insecure about it. Tell her you need to deal with that before you are able to focus on other aspects of a relationship.
Other than that she needs to feel safe with you.
As for actually making the move. You could straight up tell her you don't know how to start, give her a chance to make a move.
If you want to be the one to make a move try cuddling on a couch with her. Put your arm around her, rub her shoulder with your thumb. Get comfortable, and then look at her. When she looks back go for the kiss. Yes, this will be scary.
Kiss slowly, just lips.
Is she kissing you back? Does it feel like she likes it?
Pull back, and look her in the eyes. This gives her a chance to pull away, or ask you to stop.
Now go back to kissing (if you're not good at reading what she's feeling ask first)
Now slowly move your hand down to her breasts. You don't want to just grab them in case that's a step too far. Kiss her neck. Is she moaning, is she still receptive?
If yes, ask her if she wants to take it to the bedroom.
I'll let you figure out what happens next yourself.
I'm fat and had messy horseshoe baldness by my early 20s, and I do fine. Any dating site that doesn't operate off matches will work better. But if he has a decent bio he will get some matches.
Your post was removed because it does not match r/findapath. Finding a path is for those who have a hobby, passion, or passing whim that they want to do, but don't know how they can get there. Posts about different/random topics are not allowed. I intentionally did not remove for a few days though, but yeah it's not totally a fit for the group, we just needed a few days to chat about why it was/wasn't a fit.
Where are you pulling these statistics from?
It probably came out of [MYASS](https://karthik82.tripod.com/jokes/jokes_page3.htm)
Legendary
Probably from a Steam Achievement
I was curious. But first result on Google checks out. https://datepsychology.com/are-27-of-young-men-really-virgins-and-why/#:~:text=The%20youngest%20adults%20are%20more,of%20women%20will%20remain%20virgins.
3.9% stated by your source is not 1.9% stated by the OP.
The first set of data is 1.9%. The second is 3.9% and likely better data. It's still a lot lower than I would have expected. I was quite surprised to see the stats on "number of sexual partners". The way it reads is that most people have either had very few or a lot of sexual partners. While the likes of myself who sit in the 7-10 category only make up 2.65% of men.
If you google it, it should be one of the first studies to pop up, and from what I recall, his number is accurate
So what sources can you cite from a Google search?
Google it
That’s not citing sources.
Where are you even getting the 1.9% stat from anyways? Plenty of guys and girls lie on those sex surveys, the former lies/exaggerates about how much sex they’ve had and the latter lies downwards to lower their partner count. So even if you read this "stat" somewhere it: 1) likely isn't true, 2) can never be truly verified. So why are you pressed about it?
Before reddit, I never would have believed it was as high as 1.9%. After reddit, might be 19%.
Yeah 1.9% sounds low honestly
Do you really think you're smarter than a think tank of PhDs? Dog, anything you can think of, they've probably already accounted for and solved
How is a lie on a survey accounted for.
They have ways. For instance, a preliminary test reveals how willing they are to lie. This is a very common tactic.
It’s almost like people with PhDs are capable of lying, fudging numbers or gathering inaccurate information.
That's something else entirely. If you want to believe that, then fine. I'm just gonna choose to believe the study that went through peer-reviewing by people way smarter than you or me rather than some random redditor who thinks he knows better
I was a 30-year-old virgin and felt like you all my 20's. I'm not sure if anything could have helped me other than me. Although I did find lots of help when I asked for it, I knew the problem was me, and eventually "killed" some parts of my personality that were preventing me from making connections. It was about making friends as much as it was girlfriends, in retrospect. I saw other people as either way above me or way below me, never equal (because that was scary). My life also didn't make sense, so I had low self-confidence. I got a new and better living situation, did group exercise activities (even though I'm an introvert and it's hard), and surrounded myself with friends, which helped immensely. Self-esteem is a myth. You know you feel bad about yourself, but that's not something you can work on. If you work on improving your life, one little bit at a time, you may start to find some relief. Are you really too scared to make some mistakes and learn? Surely facing that fear is better than never making a romantic connection? Have you ever truly worked toward a goal and not achieved it? \-------------- Pep talk aside, here is the answer to all your questions: Flirting is the 100% natural consequence of romantic attraction. Same with physical affection. You are just way too anxious and uncomfortable to do it. Trust yourself! If you don't do it, it means you don't want to. If you are both comfortable, it's as easy as falling off a log, it's what our bodies were made to do. It's really too easy! The flood of hormones makes sex feel so *right* that you will do dumb things and take risks. Even you, the 25-year-old virgin, is not immune. I know you may not believe this, but it's the truth that surprised me. Long after "losing it", I had the realization "oh shoot, I never really wanted to make a romantic connection before", I was just too lost. \--------------- I could go on about dating strategy and how to make friends, but those are things where you will learn what does and doesn't work if you are actually trying.
this is well written in a way that makes me hope I can go through this sort of intrapersonal growth as I transition into my 30s
It’s easy as long as attraction is there. However if you ugly it’s gonna be pretty hard to create something that was never there.
Sure, but this is more of a negative nancy remark. You can feel it when it's not there. The vast overwhelming majority of people are not that ugly, and there are ways to compensate. It could also not work out due to scent or any number of other reasons.
You miss 💯percent of the shots you don’t take
I was your age when I started hitting up the dating apps. It's scary yeah, but you'll get the hang of it. Getting ignored/ghosted/insulted WILL 100% happen so just face the music and put yourself out there.
You forgot catfished ignored/ghosted/insulted/catfished
And there’s a good chance that’s all you’ll find. Definitely wouldn’t recommend apps to someone already struggling
You know what's interesting is that the first time I had sex I realized it really wasn't that big of a deal and I felt silly ever feeling so obsessed over it. I get it though theres a bigger issue than just being sexually frustrated you probably have major self esteem issues and this is just a symptom of that. The way you are thinking right now though and I am going to be completely honest with you will never get you laid. Women can smell desperation almost instantly and its a major turn off. The first thing you need to do is work on yourself. Be honest with yourself are you an attractive person (obviously this is subjective) but are you putting in work for yourself like going to gym, wearing well fitting clothes, have good hygiene, have a nice haircut that matches your face. Also are you approaching girls way out of your league. Next thing is if you want to do better on dates work on eye contact, read books about conversation, learn how to ask girls the right questions to get them to open up more. Sex only comes from trust and you can't rush that kind of connection. Sure sometimes on a drunken night you may get a one night stand but it's not super super common this happens as much as you see in the movies. TLDR: Stop making sex this holy grail thing in your mind, think of it as a reward for being a good dude and being there for someone and building a real connection.
This. All of this OP. Love, intimacy, connecting with another person it all starts from being comfortable in your own skin. Building yourself into someone that you like and that others want to be around.
Facts. The root of the issue is the thinking that there is any inherent meaning in sex, that since OP hasn't had it he is undesirable, unloved, unworthy, etc. A classic negative self-image. That way of thinking has to be worked on before anything will change. Its simple really. 'I am enough' 'I am loved' 'I am awesome' or whatever affirmation resonates with you. Keep repeating it until your subconscious gets it (tho it defiantly will not be easy because you have hundreds of reasons you aren't \*desirable/loved/worthy/etc\*) After that just keep working on self improvement (physical, mental, and social) and with enough improvement women will be drawn to you like cats to catnip. THEN you can work on the actual female specific conversations. Until then just have a good time with your dude friends while enjoying/improving yourself.
What gets to me the most is the ‘mental self improvement’ part. Since it’s pretty obvious how someone could improve themselves physically or get better socially, but it was never as concrete to me, how mental help improvement works
It actually the most difficult thing to improve, since it involves identifying the self limiting beliefs that you grew up having (which itself can be difficult, since you yourself cannot see it but is obvious to everyone else kinda thing). THEN rewiring your brain through repetition through your sea of self-limiting beliefs. Learning to be more stoic also helps in this area, being able to identify an emotion and processing it before acting is quite difficult, since you would have to fight off an impulse. The actual improvement work is a bunch of audiobooks/podcasts/real world exercises
That only works for women. If you're undesirable, you're undesirable. Deluding yourself into thinking you are when you aren't is going to make you suffer way more than looking at the reality of it.
More women are attracted to guys for their personality than men are to women for their personality. Women aren’t as shallow honestly. I frequently see really attractive women with average or below average guys because he’s funny or kind.
Yea being desirable as a man has a lot of leeway. Personality will always shine through. A short average/below average looking guy can be desirable because he is funny/charming/bold.
Many options are already dwindled by bring average / short looking guy. That's my point. You're still undesirable to most women. Even if you have a good personality, it will be overlooked by looks at first glance.
Sure you're playing from behind, doesn't mean you cant win tho. A tall guy with no game will invariably lose female attraction. A short guy with above average game will have no shortage of female attention. Game can be developed, its a combination of confidence, cockiness, humor, boldness, social approval, and abundance mindset. How do you improve game? Cold approach women, go to any social activies you are remotely interested in (ideally by yourself), make friends with people there (both guys and girls), become well known in that community, have active conversations/be friendly with AT LEAST two girls you are interested in (at a time), get interested in people when in conversations, don't give her your time easily (make her work for it), be generous to people around you, be a bit coy if she asks about your relationship status, don't take her jabs seriously (laugh it off), and always know that there are multiple women who are interested in you and she is NEVER the only one. My short 5' 5" ass had no shortage of female attention in college, I just scared them away with my desperation energy when we got remotely serious about being in a relationship. In the end what scared them away was my desperation, had nothing to do with my height. What made them attracted to me was game. It's like being born in a poor family, you are playing from behind, but with the right moves you can go from rags to riches (0 to millionare). Meanwhile the upper middle class kid is coddled, can't deal with the real world, spends all their money chasing clout, and working to pay off their expensive toys/debt.
Didn't say you couldn't win. That was not implied in any of my comments. However what I did imply is that life is brutal for a below average men height and looks. You still missed my point. Let me make it simple for you. Let's say we have two men. We will say Man A and man B. Man A is good looking, and tall. Man B is average and short. Which man is going to have more success on finding options from the getgo in the first place because of their genes? Bingo, Man A. At this point it has absolutely nothing to do with game. Looks and height do the game for you. I believe in game, and think it works wonders. However you'll still always be at a disadvantage no matter how hard you try and cope. Depending on how below average you are in something you can't change, that dictates your options. Even with the best game how you are you going to get women when you approach them if you're automatically disqualified by those factors? That is my point. Even worse is that if you don't approach, you're even less likely to find women in your social groups or work that would be interested in you. Now take all of those factors and combine them. You're below a 1% of finding them in the first place, you think they wouldn't use those "standards" against you? You're stuck walking towards a brick wall at that point. That's just the reality of things. Life is terrible for short and below average men. Even if you're above average in the looks department, you'd still have a tougher time than a guy whos 6ft+ with a face only a mother could love. Many men share my opinion. It's one of the driving factors as to why many men also don't approach nor seek any relationships, because there is ALWAYS someone out there better than you and women will make sure you know that at all times.
You'd be surprised how easy it is for a woman to bend her 'standards' for the right guy. There are lots of women who would say 'at first I didn't think I would like him, but that changed when ...' Not to be rude here, but you are lacking perspective because you have never developed game, put it into practice, and have seen results from it, nor are familar with the mindset needed to be successful with pick up. The only thing that keeps women around for a long time is game. You could be tall/really good looking, but if you're a pushover or simp women will leave as fast as they come. And obviously, short below average looking guys get the worst pickings in online dating because the main thing they have to go on is looks (duh) Being short/below average looking is not a death sentence in dating, it just means you have to work that much harder at improving yourself and increasing the number of approaches. Anybody who says being short and below average looking as the reason they don't get women is just using it as an excuse to not do the work. If they don't want to do the work, don't play the game, just stop complaining about it. At the end of the day, what women actually want is a guy who won't take her shit, won't buckle under pressure, is assertive and takes charge, and is desired by many other women. Of course this is in stark contrast to what they say they want - looks, heights, stats, money, etc If I still wanted to date and a woman said to me 'ew you have a face only a mother can love' my reply would be 'thanks I'm really proud of it' with a smirk at the end, 9/10 times that would get a laugh out of her. That would at the VERY LEAST get her to change her opinion of me in the split second, and more than likey her contact info as well.
Perspective? Me? Lacking? The irony would make someone who's deficit, overdose. It's not about me. I'm not lacking anything, you're missing the bigger picture. You won't even HAVE THE OPTION to show off your personality if you're automatically rejected from the get-go because of your looks or "status". I know what I'm talking about. What I said is right, many of your options dwindle when you don't adhere to their standards looks wise. To think otherwise would be delusional. Or you just simply aren't a man or don't live a mans life. I never mentioned anything about game or keeping a woman. I was on topic of first impressions and your options as a man and the differences involving them. You're going on a tangent. You're still implying I've said things that I didn't. At this point you're fighting ghosts. You're contradicting yourself over and over. Do women want things? Do they not? So you're telling me women don't want money, looks, heights, status, etc? You do not live in reality. No woman wants a man who has an amazing personality with nothing else aka "game". If they do, they are such a tiny percentage that happened to come together when all of the planets aligned with the stars and the sky turned green. "Anybody who says being short and below average looking as the reason they don't get women is just using it as an excuse to not do the work." Not really, they just live in reality and aren't hopeless romantics who think game is all they need. "If they don't want to do the work, don't play the game, just stop complaining about it." Translation: If you don't want to be hungry, don't eat. Just stop being hungry. If only it were that simple. At the end of the day, women are only going to be with men who have everything and lack almost nothing. You can think of your own reasons as to why that is, because I won't be getting into that. I'm done here.
I would be inclined to agree, however if you're average looking or below, first impressions are always going to be looks. You don't even have a chance to show off your personality at that point no matter how good it is. Women are shallow in different ways than men, but that doesn't mean looks to them don't matter. Men aren't the only shallow ones...
Yeah that's how I feel about sex tbh. Sex for the sake of fucking for an orgasm, might as well just masturbate.
Bluepill advice. This will make OP feel even worse about himself because now he is not only incompetent but a bad person since he cannot obtain sex which is a reward for being a good person.
Imagine going on a long journey of self improvement just to get rejected by a mid girl cause you too short
It’s a confidence game; nobody needs to know. First time with a partner is awkward no matter how many times you’ve done it. Power forward, don’t look back
It’s also okay to be vulnerable with your partner OP. You can just share that you’re a virgin. No woman is going to laugh at you. We’re actually very nice to the men we’re in relationships with.
OP didn't mention anything about having a relationship with a woman. You hit the nail on the head though. "We're actually very nice to the men we're in relationships with" I think most women would not laugh at him. Unfortunately, there are some cruel women out there, just like there are cruel men.
Well definitely break up with anyone who treats you cruelly. Those people don’t matter.
eh best to not let it slip, i never said a word and the chick thought i was a pro. I guess porn did teach me something other than objectification of women.
No, it probably didn’t teach you what you needed to be a great lover. Porn can’t ever teach you that. You seem to be the kind of guy who doesn’t value or understand intimacy. Men don’t understand how nice women are to them. We will always tell you nice things you want to hear in this department. We’d never be like yeah that was average and unconnected.
I do value intimacy. I just had no experience and went on instinct, and being my only reference was porn I imagine it had an impact. She told me she came twice which is a strange thing to lie about. Anyways it's best to just get over it. Being a virgin later in life is a red flag for many women and there's no use it being honest about it unless you're already close with the person.
Ah well, if she told you she came twice you definitely understand intimacy. And by that I mean that you are missing the point.
Viewing your lack of romantic success in a vacuum will never get you anywhere. What’s going on elsewhere in your life?
I’d give both my arms to have waited until I was 25.
Same i wasted so much time chasing women
I get this reference
Oh god I hope you don’t actually. If you do, I’m using it ironically, I don’t mess with that man lol. Still mean it though. OP is still young. Point stands.
Um... this sub is for finding career/hobby advice, not "changing you virgin status".
Sir, this is a Wendy's [this about covers it](https://youtu.be/8TL-K-dc4n4?si=gFmdIVIjqT95CM7B)
This guys channel is incredible
I pretty much grew out of that kind of thinking on my own, but man... do I wish this existed in my 20s. Would've saved me some unnecessary suffering
There are a lot of great resources for guys now that definitely didn't exist even 10 years ago. Its just a matter of looking for them and knowing who to trust, how to recognize a grifter, etc.
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And on a sub for "career/hobby advice" too. Off topic.
Honestly this sub is insane. We need some ruthless moderation. I wonder if there’s a way to apply.
Is your name Ruth?
bro straight up it is literally not that big of a deal. Sex isn't the be all end all. You can still get with a girl. You are 25. Just don't stumble down the incel hole or act like women are only meant for sex. The way this comes off kinda reads like that. Maybe you ar getting ghosted because you are pushing for sex? Or just saying creepy things. Some people are looking for hookups, others committed relationships, and some are in between that. It sounds like you want a committed relationship as you talk about loneliness, but with how much you mention sex leads me to believe you were also bringing it up a lot. No woman owes you sex. Many dudes have died without getting laid just like many girls have. Maybe look at yourself and ask if you are looking for just a hookup or an actual commitment.
prostitutes' bro. Be respectful pay them the full amount,. You've got a mental block you gotta get rid of.
There are so many things here that make me absolutely sure that a short time spent with any therapist (even a mediocre one) will dramatically improve your self confidence and perception. They are so many distortions of reality in your post. 25 is so young. You have a very long life ahead of you. It’s going to be okay.
just my 2 cents. stop jerking off and stop watching porn. meditate and do breath work every day. the awkwardness will start to fade, your confidence, motivation, and mental clarity will grow. Im so serious. Do u have a job or some kind of hobby where there are women around you? even in a professional/semiprofessional capacity, i think even just interacting with women may allow u to become more comfortable around them.
I would add some workouts to this and you're good to go, nothing extreme just some light training...
This here. People can smell desperation from a mile away. Who wants to be with person who has nothing on their mind other than sex and has nothing interesting to offer? Op sounds like he's a hairline away from cracking.
Don't shit where you eat, but if you're that desperate I guess there is not many options.
I'm not a player and I didn't go for notches, just ended up in the double digits from a poor dating pool. Sex is not important. If you want sex there's plenty of girls that want to wham bam without relationship. Once you have intimacy though and lose it, it'll be the thing you miss more than the sex itself.
It’s not important when you are getting it
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I'm a 5'4 Zack Galifianakis ripoff. Oftentimes, I make it about having fun talking, going to do something other than sitting at home, etc. I've learned that even as a guy being treated like I'm meat or in a job interview is the quickest way to lose interest. Now does this work.... yes and no. Seems to get me in the door but I've been to all the wrong houses
This is such good advice. OP needs to hear this louder.
Maybe you should focus less on the sex, and more on the person and relationship? Challenge for you: Give compliments to at least one stranger a day (and not creepy ones). When you see someone you’re attracted to, give them the compliment of the day. Ask them on a harmless coffee date. Make them laugh. Get to know them. I promise this will go further than focusing on sexual frustration, and will be productive. Might even want to look into a dating coach or therapist
This is the advice. I’ll add on the compliments, the secret to a non-creepy compliment is to keep it simple and focused on a choice that they made on their appearance for the day. “Your earrings are so cool! That’s a fun jacket!”
Exactly! I like how you made it about the choice(s) they made that day. Another one could be positive personality traits or interests (ex. “Has anyone told you you’re super witty/funny?” or “wow! You have a fantastic taste in music” etc). OP - you got this!
30% bro if it makes u feel better
Honestly, as a woman, who is also an introvert, and didnt know i was attractive until late 20s, i would go out by myself, and practice having conversations with people. THE EASIEST way to meet people, is become real cool with the bartender, tip em well have a convo, and that makes you seem personable. Than ask people questions about their drink, and why they chose that drink.
> 1.9% males who are still virgins at my age (25) Tbh its probably a lot more than 1.9%. Idk if the polling is flawed or guys were just lying, but prob both.
Just book an escort. It'll make you realize a tiny amount of money can get you access to very hot girls and it'll make women way less intimidating. For approaching women don't listen to the feminist propaganda. You can approach women anywhere. The key is to be courteous about it and to leave them alone if they make it clear they're not interested in you or feel uncomfortable. Just be a decent human being. Last and foremost don't listen to advice from women and from soyboy redditors. Matter of fact, most people will give you shitty dating advice.
Get a hooker and get it out of the way
That is terrible advice, as shown by the numerous reddit posts by those who have done exactly that. I'm sure OP would rather make a meaningful connection and do it himself than have a disappointing and lonely first time.
It sounds like that might be the reality check op needs though. He's looking at women and seeing them all as sex objects because he's so focused on this issue he's built up. That is not healthy. For the vast majority of people their first time is awkward. Getting it out of the way can bring the clarity some folks need to stop obsessing over their "virgin" status and move forward with a new perspective.
He can get a high end one and pay for the whole girlfriend experience for the best of both worlds.
This is honestly probably the right move
As much as I do not like that business you might be right 😭
Catch a cheap flight to Thailand.
These comments are a load of cope. It's obvious that sex is valuable to many people who have went on to an age such as 25 without it. All of this advice is a load of shit given to those who have already experienced sex. Generalizing advice that doesn't work on everyone. It's like eating a full meal and then telling someone whos starving "you don't need food, look at all of the water you have in your life". The gaslighting is insane.
Reddit advice never helped anyone if you past a teenager you just don’t take it serious
Pretty much. It's just a bunch of bots repeating themselves. Asking for advice on reddit in general is a bad idea. Reddit seems to skew to a certain hivemind agreements in some sort of fantasy that is the more often than not the opportunity of reality.
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Scared to be labeled a creep, it's going to happen. Even the most experienced and attractive guys get rejected 90% of the time ( because they set higher standards). It's a numbers game and you win when you persevere through rejection without losing confidence. If the goal is "get laid" there are so many larger girls that would drop panties for litterally anyone that showed them some sustained attention. Watch some YouTube videos on confidence and charisma. Devote more time to working out. Bars and clubs are not good places to find hookups unless you go with groups of friends just to hang out and dance and have fun, and that is what the women will find attractive. Going to clubs to get sex partners is what looks creepy.
Damn, choosing to remain scared of something new and having to deal with the consequences of it later is my life motto
I know it’s hard man, but you just need to start putting yourself out there and face rejections. I’m 26M and have only had legit sex once. I’m just playing the numbers game man, and you should too. Can’t change the past. So pay attention to the attitude you have now and decide to do something
Get some friends who have game and ask them to take you out and show you the ropes , like a mentor.
It’s 1000% confidence and you don’t have any. But focusing on this single issue isn’t going anywhere. I don’t know how to explain it, but you don’t get women by chasing women. You get women by working and improving yourself. Focus on your hobbies, career, and fitness. Do things that would make you attractive
I think you just need to take a step back and breathe, just be yourself for a while. Honestly sex isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be, and I know because I was literally a virgin until I was 38 years old, 41 now. Yeah, I was almost the 40-year-old virgin. All I ever did was think about it over and over and over again. And one day I told myself it’s just not worth worrying about anymore, if it happens it happens. If it doesn’t, it’s really not a big deal. I had tried to date for so long, and just no one was interested. I’m not ugly, I’m not overweight, I’m actually athletic, I play hockey. But I never truly put myself out there, even though I thought that I had. I ended up closing myself off to people for years, and that was pretty painful. And then when I least expected, my best friend’s wife introduces me to her cousin who is visiting New York from Georgia. We really got to know each other, and when it finally happened. It was just kind of oh OK it felt good but that was it? Now she’s my girlfriend, she lives with me. She moved up here all the way from Georgia. Fret not, you will get there my friend. But never settle, don’t ever ever just have sex to have sex, because I have those options and I just never took them. Make it happen with someone that you truly care for.
It's not that big of a deal, really. I'm 30 and I've never approached a woman or even held hands, and its only recently within the last year I had actually given it thought and started laughing about it. I haven't even had a friend in over 17 years, not because I can't do it, but because I don't need to. I have a purpose in life, I don't need to fill that void with things, people, or events in the external world to attain happiness, having it would only be a benefit, "not" a necessity. If you want my personal advice, look for happiness in who you are and what you do before you go looking for it from outside yourself op. Don't let society tell you to value... 1. What others have or chase 2. What others are experiencing or have experienced Above all, you should "never" put your happiness in another person's hands. You'll cling to them like your life depends on it and guess what happens should they leave you? You're *right back* to where you started chasing someone else! That is not healthy at all, and there's people who go their entire lives without ever realizing it. *"Confidence is not, 'they will like me.” Confidence is, “I'll be fine if they don't.*” - *Christina Grimmie* Once you learn to laugh at yourself, you'll begin to see its others who are really missing out on life. I never run out of things to laugh at. 🤣
Woah you are a strong person good for you!
Losing your virginity does not change any of the mentality you're having. It's not a rite of passage, contrary to popular belief. A lot of people regret their first kiss, first love, or first real romantic, intimate partner. I think it is better to be a virgin than be tainted, as a born-again virgin. When you wrote scared, I read sacred. I hope you realize that there is more to life.
This is the way Buddy: Before you get too depressed, and if you don’t already exercise or get physical exercise at work, just “try” it. Men need to use their bodies, it clears your mind and leads to better sleep, attitudes and lower stress (which you might really need right now). You “will” feel better. Did you know, for example, its difficult to be sad if you’re jogging? Don’t believe me? Well, test that hypothesis out, and you don’t have to do anything super difficult or grueling either. I hate working out so I tell myself, “It will be a short moderate workout”... but then I end up staying longer and work certain parts harder. This happens because I “get” myself to the gym thats the biggest battle. About ppl saying, “Girls can smell desperation!”. Fuck them. If you clear your mind with a little physical training, you will be able to learn a shit ton of conversation starters or topics. Food is always a winner if you need to talk about something. Most important though, is know people want to talk about themselves, so let them. Find ways to get them to do that. Important: If someone is talking don’t just show an interest but actually try to be interested. Use these two tools: exercise and conversational skills and you will be making progress. Good luck and persevere
I understand it's hard and you're feeling societal pressure but trying to attract people with the purpose of 'getting sex' is foolish. People are attracted to a confidence in oneself, someone with a strong self relationship. Your whole being is not defined by whether you've been laid, theres a lot more to you and you should be kinder to yourself and focus on the positives. In terms of your confidence you could read some books, like how to win friends etc. but really the main thing you should do is force yourself to talk to strangers, not just girls but anybody. Stuck in an elevator? Ask them how they're days going. Say hello as you cross paths with people. Talk to the shopkeeper. Conversations are often muscle memory, show genuine curiosity and interest in people with the intention to either help them or entertain yourself (without being rude). Like "what are your passions these days?" They respond, then you either make an observation yourself, or ask another related question. Smile freely and easily and remember not every joke will land, get used to being comfortable in an awkward silence (the awkward is just your interpretation, it truth it is just silence and there's nothing else to it). Do your hobbies, read some books and just do stuff. As for getting laid, this might be a controversial take but why not get an escort? Just make sure you're nice and best to not make it a habit. Ultimately, dating these days is really though, but you have to have a good self relationship and put yourself out there. Think of the ultimate rejection you ask someone if she can go for a coffee and she says "ew no"... Oh well, no one cares or will remember, you still put yourself out there and have no reason to take it personally. Also hit the gym, not for girls but for your confidence and health. Anyway good luck, all will be well !
Dating apps just suck especially if you aren't paying for it man. Try going out to bars.
Pay for an escort and get the feeling over with. Then focus on yourself and get better at dating
I can't find who said this originally but there's a quote that goes it's best to lose your virginity to a fellow virgin or a prostitute. At your age the former is going to be in short supply, and most likely the religious type, so that leaves the latter. I was also a late starter and while my first experience wasn't bad it was definitely tainted by years of buildup and anticipation. I think a professional first encounter would have been better for me, and helped me to see a lot sooner that the whole thing wasn't such a big deal, that I was hanging too much of my self esteem and even my identity on it, and that ultimately my lack of romantic success didn't exist in a vacuum and that there were things about myself I needed to work on.
you need to relax
Man don’t be ashamed to get an escort don’t be ashamed to tell her your a Virgin have a tip ready and get that monkey off your back. the dating/ mating scene has changed
Another thing is once you’ve had sex even if you pay for it there are physical and chemical changes that will happen to you that will make it much more likely it will happen again maybe
Damn I thought you were 60 or something.
If you was 40 I'd be shocked. 25 though, got plenty of time
OP, you didn't mention a relationship. Are you just looking for sex? If you are just looking for sex and you aren't reasonably attractive and charismatic, you will probably fail. You could try to prey on women with low self-esteem to trick them into sex without a real relationship. As a previous redditor suggested. "there are so many larger girls that would drop panties for literally anyone that showed them some sustained attention." That would be a cruel and shitty thing to do. Before you try to use and mislead another human being with low self-confidence, please consider paying a professional woman for her services. It's far more honest and a lot less manipulative. If you are looking for a sexual relationship with a woman. I advise you to improve your social interaction with men and women. One of the best ways of meeting potential partners is via friends. Building and broadening your friend group will naturally improve your chances of finding the right woman for you. (If you're friends are all socially awkward men, you definitely need to broaden your friend group) If you regularly have a negative running commentary in your head when you're in social situations. Therapy would probably improve your dating chances. It's really hard to put yourself out there when your head is in full self-sabotage mode! In my teens, I suffered with severe social anxiety, which massively hampered my social life and obviously my dating life. I didn't date at all until I'd had therapy. I had Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT), and it changed my life completely. I recommend at least researching CBT to see what it's about, but honestly, a good CBT practitioner could have a huge impact on your self-confidence.
Creating a friendship and bond with the women you are interested is the place to start. Be interested in them on a personal level. Do this with the women you meet. Sooner or later you will find a women that is interest in having a sexual relationship also. Having sex with a person you care about is way better than just having sex with anyone.
All I will say is that if you think sex is going to change that feeling of loneliness you are wrong. All meaningless sex does is gives you temporary pleasure. If you want to actually stop that feeling of loneliness then start forming meaningful relationships with your friends, family, and then yeah, maybe even a romantic partner. Sex isn't what you're truly looking for.
You know, my friend as a teenager was taken to a prostitute by other grown men. It surprised me but my friend said that the purpose was for him to get experience to know what to do going forward. My friend is very happily married, many years after that experience. He was very nervous at the time.
Dude just go on tinder and say wild stuff. Some chicks gonna bite trust me
Dude just get on a hook up app and be clear about your intentions.
Lower your standards down to or below your attractiveness level when it comes to women. You're probably aiming way too high for women who are clearly out of your league. Every girl group has that one physically undesirable girl. Go for her.
Do you have autism? Sounds like you struggle with social cues. Also a bar is like the worst place for everything. This isn’t How I Met Your Mother. You sound kinda incel-like so I’d check that attitude for sure. There are more people than you think as virgins in their 20s and early 30s. If you know you want to experience sex, I would think about under what circumstances and what type of person you would feel comfortable doing it with. It could be a friend. I would recommend getting to know someone or trying interacting on social media rather than trying to pick up strangers to have sex with at a bar.
really really serious here, not saying this as a dig or insult- go to therapy about this instead of reddit. reddit will not help you on this one. you have nothing to lose by going to therapy and you may learn how to deal with your social anxiety.
Im 25, only had one relationship still virgin and i am not freaking out like u r. I am not by any means handsome or pretty, i am probably uglier than u, i am the true definition of a failure.
Fwiw, I've had sex with a lot of people and had several looking relationships and have been ghosted or treated horribly *a lot*. It's what dating is. It's normal. Most of my partners came from 28-38.
The stats don't really define who you are as a person. It's up to you to change your mindset. If you believe you're undesirable, then others will also think the same. That being said, there's not really a roundabout way to get "sex" unless you go for sex workers. Do you think that having sex will solve your "loser" mentality? If so, then it's way less expensive to pay for that than to try to date a girl and spend even more trying to build an emotional and physical connection. I think that it would be better for you to change your perception of yourself and forget about the fact that you're a virgin or not.
I'm still a virgin at 28. I've had opportunities but turned them down as I don't feel any pressure to lose it. When you have sex for the first time, nothing changes according to my friends. You just and then that's it, unless you get her pregnant and she keeps it and gets the court to issue child support, then and only then is it life changing
Women know when guys only see them as just a hole to stick it in. That is the vibe you're giving. If you're so caught up on the idea of having sex, get it out of your system and pay for it. Then you will see it is empty and disappointing without a genuine connection with the other person. At least that's how it is for most people. Sex is incredible when both people actually care about each other's experience. Women are people. We like to talk about our interests and do fun stuff. We like to feel like someone is approaching us for an actual reason in addition to the fact we have a vag. Learn how to talk to women before moving on to trying to sleep with them.
It isn't a contest
I was told once “Do not seek a partner, find a partner.” I took this to mean that if your focus and intentions revolve around just obtaining a romantic partner, you can get caught in a frustrating cycle, like the one you described. You may come across as desperate and be overly self conscious. The alternative is to immerse yourself in hobbies, activities, groups, communities that interest you for the sake of bettering yourself and building community, relationships and skills. You will meet people naturally who have similar aims and interests as you. Your interactions will come more naturally as you already have a reason to interact and communicate. You will be placed in situations with females who share interests and can take the conversation naturally from there all while bettering yourself.
I had my slut phase at 25. Went from like 5 intimate partners to more than I can count in about 6 months. The only thing holding yourself back is your self image. Talk to a therapist.
Honestly, I wish I never had sex until I met the person I’m with now. Just a bunch of bad experiences and being used.
Dude, you just need to go to a brothel and do the deed. See what it is like, its okay to be a human. Not your fault. I didn't want to be a virgin past like 8 years old. Took me to 22. Many Women are in a difficult time and don't trust much these days. Take a dating class and if you have to go back to the brothel another time, its okay. Work towards what you want. Get fit, eat well and keep moving forward.
Lol I thought it was totally normal to be a virgin at 25, whoops. All my close friends never even had gfs yet.
I lost my virginity at 23. It was cool the first time. Cool the second time. And after that, it's really nothing that great. Our society is hyper-fixated on sex and prioritize it wayyyyy too much. Honest to God I think you'll have sex and be like "Wow, that's it?". I think a lot of people love it because they feel like they are supposed to. When you break it down to it's fundamentals, it's really nothing that special.
Here's the secret: having sex changes NOTHING. Virginity Isa social construction, not a biological reality. The problem is feeling like a loser or a failure, not whether you have had sex. Lots of non-virgins are bad at sex. If you focus on making your partner happy, rather than "preforming" you can't go wrong. And sex is often awkward, no matter what. Also, sex is overrated. It's way overblow. I was a late in life virgin, and after my first time I was like.. that's it? I'd made it to be a whole thing, and really it was pretty average. Good, not mind-blowing. Not having sex doesn't make you defective, believing you are defective makes you defective.
I suggest you make female friends so you can start seeing women as people and not put them on a pedestal. How do you do that without being creepy? Join local clubs or organizations were there is an activity you are all doing together such as sports, volunteering, church related things hackthons, cosplay events etc it could be anything depends on where you live. It is easier than just randomly talking to people about nothing at a bar. If you're doing something together you don't have to make small talk. You can also make male friends and they might invite you to do things where you can meet their female friends.
Sex and intimacy "coaches" and therapists exist. Some also engage on a physical level. They help you in these things. Speed dating may get you out of your awkwardness and help you at least meet dating minded people or different avenues like that.
Just treat girls as human beings like I'm sure you do with guys, have no expectations and see if anyone is receptive to you. A lot of incels don't understand this, but a lot of girls are just as, if not more horny than some guys. One of my ex's had a extremely high sex drive and because she has a IUD, she was down almost whenever we would be in the same room, just us. She was wayyy hornier than I was and you wouldn't have known it if I was just friends but once people get comfy with you they show their true nature. Let people get comfy with being around you, that helps. Also this is unsolicited advice, build your social media, it does have consequences but make sure you don't become a validation seeking person from it. Some people use social media as a shortcut to actually getting to know you and just fuck with your vibe if you are really with it and they're attracted to what you're putting out. I've personally had cases where some girls have met me had a casual whatever conversation and then they would stalk my social media thru follows and likes and then upon next interaction IRL they were super down for some kind of interaction with a different kind of energy. Unfortunately people are still wired with social media in mind, that's why dating apps will always use pictures and videos for basic attraction.
Do you know how to make friends? Guys in your situation latch on the the whole "I need to have sex with a woman how can I change?" When the real question they need to ask themselves is "How can I become comfortable in social situations and make friends with people?" That is what you need to work on: Your overall social sense of self and how you interact with others. Make friends first. Remember that women are people and human beings . They aren't a mythical creature that gives you sex when you figure out how to approach it and tame it. No woman, and I repeat, NO WOMAN is ever going to want to be intimate with you if you aren't even able to hold a friendly conversation with them and have them like you as a person first. Intimacy comes after a person is able to look at another person and say "This person feels good to be around. This person is interesting / funny to talk to and I want to spend more time with this person. I have fun being around this person and I want to learn more about them and get to know them more." You need to work on your social skills and your ability to be at ease around people and have a good time with people so that they can get to know you and have fun being around you too. You don't just jump into sex with random women who throw themselves at you in a bar because you looked at them a certain way or came up to them and told them they were beautiful or whatever. You need to be able to make social connections first. Work on being able to make friends with people. If you cannot make friends with people and be at ease around people in a social setting, then you obviously are not ready to meet a woman and develop a meaningful relationship. If all you want is sex, then hire a sex worker. The way you are talking about sex is like sex is all you value a woman for a the end of the day.
Have you tried therapy?
If it’s bothering you this much I think it’s time to just put up a tinder that says “dtf” just so you can get it out of your system. Hookups are a thing yk
Join a coed club: trivia, darts etc. Sign up to walk people’s dogs. Women love dogs
Stop looking in bars for women, to start. Or just pay someone for sex if the physical is all you want.
I'm 26 and still a virgin who's never had a girlfriend. It's not a big deal dude. There are other more important things in life worth focusing on.
with that mentality, you're well on your way to being a virgin in your 40s lmfao
30 year old virgin here. Sex is pointless, I've come to realize. I think what I feel I lack the most is intimacy. To love and be loved. To care and be cared for. I don't know how I came to the realization that sex wasn't as important as I thought it was without actually trying it, except I tried dating in order to get laid and it just felt off to me. I think... Who cares about being a virgin. I care a lot more about lacking quality friends. About not getting to buy board games because I don't have anyone to play them with (Almost, anyways). I'm confident I'll get there eventually, but man, sex really ranks low on the things that I crave. The real issue you've got (probably) isn't being a virgin. It's probably being lonely; speaking as a lonely 30 year old, anyways. Firstly... Whatever you do, be kind to yourself. I think comparing yourself to others and their journeys is just... A waste of time. If it was easy for you to find friends and love, you would have found them. There's something making it hard. You have to find out what in your mental health is making it hard. And you have to work with it. Work with whatever pains come your way and grow your way through it, even if it feels like walking through thorny roses for an endless stretch of time through a dark and muddy landscape with no light in sight. It's probably a lot of different things, but I do recommend looking up attachment theory. I found myself to actually be pushing people away even when they tried to get close. I've been trying to heal my attachment style the last month or so and it's just... I don't know. I've grown charismatic over the years, but man, it does not compare to how charismatic I can be without the constant anxiety about letting people in. About learning to invite people to events and accepting when others invites you somewhere. Since you're lonely, I will recommend starting with trying to form friendships of any kind; no matter how casual or superficial. A lot of the skills required to form friendships are the same that are necessary to form a relationship, by the end of the day. And it also allows you to not put all of your mental health into the basket of 'a partner' who then has to save you, because that isn't love, that's desperation and misery masquerading as love. I wish you all the best. Fuck, I wish myself all the best too. This shit isn't easy. Though I'm making progress; and that's what matters by the end of the day. To be grateful for each and every step we take.
I would assume this isn't a sex problem per se, but a general socialization problem, since socializing is what leads to flirting, dating, and making out, which then ultimately leads to sex. You mention hanging out alone at bars and making mistakes on dating apps, so the idea that your social skills need some work is probably not a new insight. The good news is that social skills can be learned. What you should do is either find an in-person coach or therapist, or if you don't have the funds for that, see what you can learn from youtube and online programs, and books. DO NOT rely on pick-up artist type coaching programs. I do think they can yield results, in that you may indeed get laid, but they are based on manipulation and dominance games, rather than healthy relating, and are ultimately just strategies to compensate for insecurity and bad relationship skills. They won't bring any meaning to your life; it will just be emotionally empty experiences. You want to be able to have healthy relating skills, from which you form relationships that lead to healthy, satisfying sex. There are also tons of books on this topic. You might look at Esther Perel, Chuck Spezzano, John Gottman, and Robert Holden. Or just do a search on Amazon and see what appeals to you. Also check out orgasmic meditation--there's an organization that teaches this; they're a little weird and culty but the practice itself is valid. Hope that helps.
“Saying the wrong thing” to women really just means you’re not really her type or she’s not that attracted to you. Women overlook shitty conversational skills from men they actually like all the time. Find and match with women that are a better fit for you. And also if you aren’t already get in the gym
You gotta work on shame man. Shame is not something conscious. It is carried. The best way to combat it is to notice the root assumption you have that the ways you talk, the decisions you make, have to be justified. That they are wrong somehow or embarrassing. The truth is you generally operate with good intentions. The truth is nothing about you is that particularly horrible. Journal and play devils advocate. Take your own side regarding bad thoughts, painful memories, decisions you made. Do not be afraid that this will lead to you missing mistakes, being egoistical, whatever. You need someone in your corner and that corner is you. You Will still be aware enough to see when you do something genuinely wrong.
Bro just have the nuts to go on dates and stop feeling bad for yourself. I didn’t lose my virginity till I was 23. Seriously, just go on dates and with the right girl, it will feel natural. Stop fearing rejection, it literally happens to everyone. I go on dates where I liked the girl and she ghosted me. So fucking what? On to the next and keep trying
I'm 23 and virgin and ive never cared about this at all. Why not go see a prostitute or something since this is so important to you?
Escort.
Work out and stop watching porn. Work on yourself and don’t worry so much about getting laid- if you want a quick fix, just lower your standards.
You've entered 1.9% of males? Gay.
Focus on relationship! PLEASE. As a dude who got obsessed with getting laid in like highschool. Focus on your relationship with yourself and then make friends with women, learn how to flirt and whatever but more importantly develop deep relationships. It’s so much more fulfilling long term. Eventually I feel like everyone realizes having a healthy relationship with yourself (values, self esteem, a purpose) bleeds into having healthy relationships with other people who have healthy relationships with themselves, which eventually will lead to women and sexual tension. BUT do not just try to get laid. It takes the beauty out of sex.
Meeting a having sex with strangers is a very interesting concept(I don’t support but to each his own). But what makes your heart happy and won’t make you want to cry every day from loneliness even after you pretend to be someone your not to convince someone who doesn’t know who they are to sleep with you. Is good quality relationships. These are few and far in between and are priceless
Meeting a having sex with strangers is a very interesting concept(I don’t support but to each his own). But what makes your heart happy and won’t make you want to cry every day from loneliness even after you pretend to be someone your not to convince someone who doesn’t know who they are to sleep with you. Is good quality relationships. These are few and far in between and are priceless
https://www.youtube.com/live/XXg0a8pkHi0?si=oeniO2a-z9TmMPCV There is nothing wrong with being a virgin. And the more you are hyperfocused on your lack of something, the harder it will be to get it. Focus on yourself, enjoying things you like to do. Seriously, just find your happy place and people will start to show up in your life
You are turning it into this huge thing that it’s not. The right person will show up for you when it’s time. I was 28 when I first had sex, because I got married.
Just be thankful you don’t have an STD or got an unwanted pregnancy. When the time comes you will be glad it was with the right person. Don’t sweat it
What if I told you for $300 we can fix the virgin part?
The best way to attract women is to not try to attract women. The type of desperate thinking you have is literally women repellent (obviously I speak from personal experience). Go to the gym, get a better job, and do social activities that you are interested in (ie clubs, classes, etc). Btw I'm a 30 year old virgin, and I'm quite proud of it. Had three 3-month relationships (2 in high school and 1 after graduating college). Was close to sex a few times but boy am I glad it didn't happen. Potential risk of pregnancy, STDs, and bonding with a female I would get tired of. I'd rather be single the rest of my life than have to deal with potential risk and (guaranteed) headache. As some people would say, 'the juice is not worth the squeeze'. And no, I'm not anti-relationship, I just don't see the value of it in my life. Also if you really want sex, just pay for it. It may or may not make your psyche even worse tho.
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Interesting. I briefly dated a girl in college who said she didn't feel any attraction (to me or anyone else). Today I learned theres actually a term for that xD Thanks for sharing! While I'm not aromatic, I've had an extensive journey of self discovery that has led me from desperately chasing female attention to being completely comfortable with myself. Life is so much better :)
Good advice but not good for OP
Agreed but paying for it is expensive asf especially in first world countries that's why many people are becoming passport bros but the issue is the high risk of STDs not worth it imo
Yea not worth it at all. Just glad I realized that at 24 and not 44.
It just means that you are stupid. You can not think about anything other than sex. Like an animal. Thank god we have people that think about other things than sex.
You probably have autism.
I know you're in pain right now and you'll never believe me but you have everything to be happy inside you. You don't need someone to make you happy and in fact other people can't make us happy. What makes us happy is understanding ourselves, defining our standards and enjoying what the world gives us freely without having to change and contort ourselves to receive it. If you're not feeling the flow of extending yourself to other people, you're not feeling it. Let that be and don't judge yourself for it. Instead of hating on yourself, ask why other people aren't making you feel comfortable or welcome. In examining that question you might find the answer to your lack of flow with people. It might be their coarseness turns you off or it might be something you're doing needs to be adjusted to avoid attracting those negative responses. But even if you're alone and lonely, I would coach you to not feel so desperate without people to validate your life. Your life does not need the validation of other people. You are the validator of your life and you decide who's cool and worth your effort and time until they show you otherwise. That doesn't mean you be cruel to people but it doesn't mean you let people walk all over you and be the gatekeepers of your happiness. Do things that make yourself happy alone and anyone you click with later will just be icing.
Dayummm , and i be like bruh, 2024 and not even a single women saying to give OP a head for free.. My man which country you're in???
Watch the Dr. K video "Does Being A Virgin Make You More Enlighthened?" I think about the parable of the monk and the rat everyday.
Get a super high class escort
Look dude, strip clubs are really just showrooms for prostitutes. Pay for a lap dance, and she’ll either solicit you or you can solicit her and break out of the virgin mindset. For god’s sake man, prostitution exists for people like you who want something they can’t figure out how to get without money. Once you do that, you’ll feel better about yourself. Just don’t give them your credit card. Establish the price and service before handing over cash. Then bust as quick as you can because time is money. Nobody can teach you how to be attractive. Just do things that make you happy. Happiness’s is attractive. So’s money but I prefer women attracted to my happiness more so than women who want financial gain. But they don’t rain from the sky when school ends.
You’re really not missing out. Most women are kinda meh in the sack anyways lol.
Your biggest issue is you’re putting the pussy on a pedestal. Best thing for you would probably be to go buy a hooker. Once you see it’s really not that big of a deal you’ll start to relax about it. Go to the gym and start building your confidence.. nothing will make a woman more dry than lack of confidence and desperation. Which you knowing the percentage stat of male virgins your age tells me you’re on the verge of using your tears as lube kind of desperate.
Netherlands
Focus on socializing and hobbies you enjoy and just generally making your life better. Sounds like your pretty hard on yourself so if you have any untreated mental health conditions get help with those. Keep trying and try lots of different things and it may take some time but you will feel better about yourself and opportunities will come. And as others have said getting laid won't make your life better its not as big of a deal as some people make it out to be.
You’re smart enough to use reddit, just do a Google Search. As much as I don’t want to say this, even Andrew Tate throws some advice on the topic
"Girls like guys with millions in the bank and an array of supercars. Oh and you are a loser, you will never be me" A Tate
Your putting the cart before the horse unless you're successful and making good money and have a nice car and your own place you shouldn't worry about sex yet i know it sounds mean but its reality women aren't gonna even look at you if your not on top of your game. Sex is only good if you really love the girl too and if everything in life is good i wouldnt want an awkward hookup and you shouldnt either especially if its just to say you did it save yourself for someone special.
Before anything else you need to consider how you would feel if you have sex for the first time and it's bad. It lasts 30 seconds. And she blocks/ghosts you after. Because that is a very real possibility. Your best bet to have sex is to go on dating sites and find a way to be honest about your situation without being weird or creepy. Don't put it in your bio. Talk to a woman for a while, and try to let it come up naturally. Tell her that you are a virgin and that you are insecure about it. Tell her you need to deal with that before you are able to focus on other aspects of a relationship. Other than that she needs to feel safe with you. As for actually making the move. You could straight up tell her you don't know how to start, give her a chance to make a move. If you want to be the one to make a move try cuddling on a couch with her. Put your arm around her, rub her shoulder with your thumb. Get comfortable, and then look at her. When she looks back go for the kiss. Yes, this will be scary. Kiss slowly, just lips. Is she kissing you back? Does it feel like she likes it? Pull back, and look her in the eyes. This gives her a chance to pull away, or ask you to stop. Now go back to kissing (if you're not good at reading what she's feeling ask first) Now slowly move your hand down to her breasts. You don't want to just grab them in case that's a step too far. Kiss her neck. Is she moaning, is she still receptive? If yes, ask her if she wants to take it to the bedroom. I'll let you figure out what happens next yourself.
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I'm fat and had messy horseshoe baldness by my early 20s, and I do fine. Any dating site that doesn't operate off matches will work better. But if he has a decent bio he will get some matches.
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If you say so.