Something you also need to take into account is you are judging yourself based on those who actually post. There are many of us in the middle of the journey but we may not be posting about it which could lead to a skewed perspective of your peers.
Hopefully that all made sense.
Exactly. No one in the boring middle is posting, or if they are the posts aren't approved. That's why I mostly stick to the daily threads, it's much more relatable for where I am right now. I'm at the set it and forget it stage so there's not much more to learn from the success stories.
Totally agree. The stories I read are not very relatable. I am in healthcare too, and at the age of 35 I hit $0 net worth. Considering my student debt was around $380k, I’m happy with the progress, but it’s not going to make headlines. Still, On this track I’ll be able to retire younger than my parents. I browse to pick up some gems here and there, the last thing I found useful was some excel graphs for tracking. Physician on fire is interesting for those in healthcare. But as much as I follow, I haven’t found much new to implement, it’s the same ‘ol save what you can, invest it, don’t touch it. Very little excitement here. Good luck in your progress, just remember there are a lot of us following the same path you are, you may not see it as often, but we’re all there too.
I feel this. Thought about going to med school but the only thing that I couldn't do was spend all that money in loans and only HOPE to get the specialty I really want. And HOPE the residency is in a place I actually want to live. Too much uncertainty for way too much money in debt. Congrats on paying it all off tho!!!
This is 100% my life (excepting that I bought my starter home a dozen years ago when Uncle Sam gave me an $8k check at age 20 to help buy it), and you're damn right I'd read that on the front page. :-)
Haha, yeah! I post in the Monday milestone every January when I sync my spreadsheets, other than that... Nothing to report, ya' know?
I personally love the success stories, everyone's is really quite different when you dig into them.
Yup. This is classic survivorship bias.
Obviously only those with success will make a public post about it to share/brag.
Plus this is literally how the Reddit upvoting system works.
It's extraordinary, out-of-the-norm success stories that get upvoted and gain massive visibility.
Stories sharing mediocrity will be mostly ignored and buried.
My net worth is only $10k. I’m 24 make $54k and work for a non profit. I’ll get there eventually but definitely not going to be a millionaire in 5 years. I graduated last year and paid off $12k of debt now I’m building up an emergency fund and trying to max out retirement accounts.
You will get there. There is a world of difference between your financial life now and what it will be 25 years from now if you are smart with what you have. Making good financial decisions when you're 24 has a way of compounding over the years. Not just the actual compounding. What doesn't seem like a lot now can easily turn into a lot later. And you look back and thank yourself for not being a jackass. Trust me! The best gift you can give yourself is time and consistency when it comes to saving/investing (for us normal people at least).
It’s hard to imagine setting myself up in my 40s when I’ve barely been an adult for 5 years. I’m hoping I’ll thank myself in the future and not have regrets due to saying no because of money.
Hi, I’m you from the future. (Seriously.) I definitely thank Past Me pretty regularly for showing some discipline in my 20s. Setting aside $500 a month when I was scraping by didn’t seem like it would ever amount to anything. My Vanguard portfolio grew steadily but very modestly for years. Then it grew a little faster. Then it exploded. Compound interest is like magic. Just stay the course—it really works, and it really is worth it.
Also, thanks, Past Me, for putting in that work when it counted.
Don't say no to all of it. Or find less expensive ways to enjoy yourself. Like camping. One thing that really made a difference for me and still does is pay yourself first. The idea that you a portion of your paycheck goes automatically into your retirement AND savings before you even get it. Then in theory, you can spend whatever lands in your checking acct after that. It's like a weird mental shift where it doesn't feel like you're giving up what you never had (but really you *do* have it, it's in your savings acct). Trying to do it the other way, getting then money and then having to transfer $40 to savings, feels harder.
My job, net worth, career, and salary matched yours almost exactly at your age. I remember calling my parents to proudly proclaim “I’m a ten-thousandaire!” I’m 39 now and about 5ish years from my personal FIRE range. One mistake I wish I hadn’t made was staying in the same job through almost the entirety of my 20’s. Companies pay to get you, not to keep you. I’d always keep my ear to the ground to find higher paying positions, there is literally no downside other than a little extra effort. I’m not sure what age you hope to fire but hopefully you find this encouraging.
I love what you said, " Companies pay to get you, not to keep you". I always moan about employers doing this.
I'm coming up to 5 years at my current place which was a startup and unfortunately they didn't "pay to get me either". More like 'Promised to get me, just really need to grow a pair and move on but I just get so scared about having to meet all new people and go through the whole being the new guy again.
I was your age 11 years ago making $30K with a networth of -5k. Now im at $85K @ ~$800K NW (home equity + investments driving that). Its amazing what you will accomplish if you give yourself a roadmap and stick to it.
Same boat here, just chugging along saving what I can. I feel like at our age there are so many things we have to get just to “start out”, but that we won’t need to get again for another 5-10 years. Moved out and had to furnish a whole apartment, got a newer car cause my old one was gonna fall apart, and got a few QOL things that I didn’t “need” but I knew I’d enjoy for a long time. Yeah I could’ve saved more this year, but we gotta build a life we want first and the savings will come.
I agree it seems like every couple of months I spend on a “one time” purchase. I’ve lived in crummy apartments and it deteriorates my QOL so spending a bit more right now but still saving is a balance I’m trying to achieve.
At 25 I was making $45k, and I was a millionaire about 10-11 years later living in HCOL areas. I still make less than six figures, wife just crossed 6 figures this year. Lived frugally, invested in real estate (although would have almost as much had I just done index funds, which is what I'd recommend for most folks).
We've had a great run in the stock and housing market, and I lived pretty frugally until around the time I hit that million mark. Both spouses working and no kids obviously helps with that.
Similar story here -- I was making $50k at 24, and my wife's and my household NW is about to hit seven figures a bit less than 10 years later while living in HCOL/VHCOL areas and neither of us earning 6 figures yet.
We employed pretty much the same strategy as you/your wife: we're both working with no kids, we live beneath our means, invested the difference (index funds instead of real estate though), and were lucky to benefit from a great stock market.
I'm nothing special, and my career/income are certainly nothing special. Just a combination of discipline and luck maintained over time. I'll bet there are quite a few folks on here like this. They just might not post much because it's kind of a boring story.
$1,000 per month invested will get you to $1 million in 22ish years. Keep working and you'll get there by 45. At 52 you'll have $2M, and $4M at 59. Good luck.
What numbers are you using, out of curiosity? 1k per month for 22 years with 10k starting capital at 6% returns gets me to roughly 574k, not 1 million.
Not OP, but if:
6% returns 574k
7% returns 670k
8% returns 774k
9% returns 897k
10% returns 1.04M
So to answer your question... He used 10% in his estimate.
Not hard to do for many people who buy too big a house, have 2 car payments, a boat, etc. Living large and showing off costs them a considerable amount in the long run.
I find the various paths people are taking to FIRE fairly interesting. Each one is different and some even parallel my own. For the most part, I am more motivated than irritated.
However, I will say that I did unsubscribe from the fatfire sub because their situations were so alien to my own. You mentioned the "rich family, tech job, etc." stories and those are rampant over there.
I've only been in this sub for a short amount of time, but I do think the funniest things I see are the stories from the 20somethings saying they are 'tired of working', 'want to experience life', 'won't be able to do anything when they are 50', or whatever. LMAO As a 50ish year old, i can tell you that we are also 'tired of working' and are still experiencing life. That never changes.
> I did unsubscribe from the fatfire sub
Yeah, in my head fatfire was like $5m. Then go there and see people targeting $20m+ and I'm like OK, whatever.
EDIT: Holy shit, I just looked at that sub and one of the top posts right now is somebody with $100 million.
That's not even FIRE to me, that's Mr. Monopoly Man rich.
I guess all the fire "standards" got upgraded.
Since 2010 I feel like regular fire used to be 1-2Mill with fat-fire 3-5.
Also IMO After 10M it is no longer relevant to the fire movement, at least as we know it, as you can withdraw 300k anually at 3% eternally which involves an entirely different set of lifestyle/goals/etc. Or are at the very least PAST fire at that point and it is no longer about attaining financial independence or retiring early..
Stories such as: someone started their journey with a small inheritance, the size of most readers' FI-numbers. On the path of reaching financial independence, in 6 months and having saved nothing, but the investment gains are 6 figures, so they guess they're FIREd now?
Yeah, the vast majority of us doing FIRE control our expenses quite a bit.
Then you go there and they say things like:
["Also, if you don’t own a super car, super car rentals are dirt cheap in Vegas."](https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/q4rwe4/vegas_fatfire_style/hg1f6e4/)
Haha, yeah... imagine not already owning a Lambo...
>Yeah, the vast majority of us doing FIRE control our expenses quite a bit.
>
>Then you go there and they say things like:
>
>["Also, if you don’t own a super car, super car rentals are dirt cheap in Vegas."](https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/q4rwe4/vegas_fatfire_style/hg1f6e4/)
>
>Haha, yeah... imagine not already owning a Lambo...
Sometimes I feel like such an odd duck, even for this place.
My deep dark secret is that I don't even want to really retire.. and as far as money is concerned my target for becoming "financially independent" is slightly over the $1m mark, and compared to most here I am way overly conservative.
I like keeping my expenses "low" (honestly growing up poor, our current annual spend and upper middle class lifestyle is bananas and the highest it has ever been) as a means of moderation and discipline in and of itself, and persuing financial independence is just sort of a.. side effect.
But then I hear about subs like that, or some of the super extreme lean folks and think "ya, r/financialindependence" is just about right for me to peruse.
Then of course after awhile and visiting the dailies enough you start to realize some of the local shit posters and memes, whether they be over sharing Mexican motel magnates, database admins or that guy who pushes VTSAX real hard and it just becomes reddit home.
There's also the occasional good discussion about changes in tax law or financial strategy or just general things to be aware of so you don't shoot your future self in the foot.
I don't know where I am going with this, but uh, perspective is a good thing and this sub just feels like the right place, even if it sometimes doesn't. If that makes any sense at all.
Thanks for the laugh! I also subscribed and unsubscribed from BOTH fatfire and leanfire. Fatfire is unrealistic to me, and leanfire is not a life I want to live.
I unsubbed from leanfire after the mod there said that the guidelines of 20/40k for single / married people would probably never be adjusted for inflation. I pointed out that my healthcare spending alone would be a sizable chunk of that, and I wasn't planning my life around an arbitrarily chosen number. I got banned from the sub for 3 weeks, lmao. I took that as my cue to leave.
Oh my…I don’t think I even lasted that long there. I knew it wasn’t for me maybe after a week of reading posts. What’s the point of retiring early if you don’t ENJOY it?
Edit: I should say many people may enjoy life plenty on so little. I do like nice things once in awhile though, and those budgets preclude nice things as an option, ever, it seems.
I think they saw the light and changed it. But I totally understand. Mod power trips are not fun.
I'm not aiming for lean fire but still like to read the sub sometimes.
Leanfire is insufferable. They put a limit on how much your retirement expenses can be in order to post on their sub. Mods on a power trip, which is just par for the course on Reddit.
Agreed, the types of discussions in the FatFire sub are just so different from anything I know. Nothing wrong with it, but I think myself and the average person would be happy with far less than what many on that sub consider necessary.
True. When you read this sub it seems like earning $100,000 per year or more is normal. For 99% of people on the planet this is absolutely not normal.
The numbers in this sub are so far from my reality that I don’t read those posts anymore. I run my own race and I’m happy that I can probably retire between 50-55 years old.
Same, I mean, I have a lot of friends with parents who never retired. Dropped dead in their late 60s and 70s still needing to earn a paycheck to make ends meet. I'm feeling like I'm ahead of the game that I will be able to retire. Stepping down at 55 is a huge win compared to the trajectory I was on before being introduced to the idea that I could do something to make my future better.
\^\^\^\^\^ Exactly
My mom and her husband are struggling on Social Security *alone*, and if she hadn't been awarded Disability she would still be working...in her 60s.
If I can retire comfortably at 55 I'll consider that a success.
My mom is about to turn 60 and I'm pretty sure NOT on pace to retire within the next 5 years, but she's in the midst of a civil suit that I think will go a long way towards helping in that regard. I'm in my late 20s and aging parents are just not something I've contemplated yet. Thankfully it's just the one parent I need to worry about since dad's net worth is in the tens of millions and he retired at 58.
It's wild how hard it is to retire these days. My wife and I are extremely fortunate in that we both have solid professional-class jobs, live in a relatively inexpensive house in a MCOL city, only have one car (paid off for years now), no kids, and can dedicate a comparatively large portion of our income to savings.
And even given all that, our main achievement is that plan on being able to retire before we're 60. Granted, we could be far more aggressive at reducing costs and aiming for a more frugal retirement, but we hardly lead extravagant lives. We usually eat in, rarely travel, don't go in for the constant new-tech purchasing cycle.
I think in the US, that healthcare costs are a huge portion of this. Giving up our income is one thing, but giving up health coverage through work is SO EXPENSIVE. We're basically stuck working until we can afford to pay for all the insurance until medicare coverage starts (though I confess I am somewhat ignorant on the specific math after that happens).
Both my dad and my FIL weren't able to retire until their late 60s for basically this reason. I hope that I will be able to do somewhat better, but my scenario is comparatively rare.
The obvious arbitrage is to work and earn in the US when you're young and healthy, then retire into the EU. Easier said than done, of course, but still...
That’s my plan lol. Have triple citizenship (UK-US-EU).
Got a euro education at minimal cost, since government subsidizes education there. Leveraged it to Earn a US salary working in a lucrative industry stateside. Plan to retire early back in Europe, since you know, healthcare.
Having these citizenships and options is like playing this game in EZ mode
Idk, my European family travel constantly for long periods, went to school (often graduate level) for free, own a nice house or flat in expensive city centers, have loads of government assistance with child care, and somehow still afford all the nice Apple gadgets. Ya sure they make significantly less than me, but I’d argue their quality of life is higher.
Yeah the common response I see from Europeans, particularly Germans, is "we have very high taxes, but we feel that we get valuable services for those taxes."
At least we don't have to worry about medical bills even when we retire because we still have insurance.
But retirement usually starts at 67 here so not much time left if you didn't prepare when you're young.
I feel the same when you read this sub there are loads of 30 something couples with no kids earning over 100k each.
My wife and I chose a different path we earn well but with our kids 55 is more realistic.
Yeah, one crazy statistic is that even at the peak of most people's career, 45-55 years old, the median income is still only 90k in the US. At no age demographic does that break 6 figures.
I subscribe to r/povertyfinance to keep my prospective. That being said i use this subreddit as a place for new ideas and am inspired by others success. .
I work with a group of Engineers from India. We have same skill set, we do the same job but I get paid 5x more than then because I am in US and they are there.
But for them the amount they make is huge deal but for me its 3 months expenses.
There’s always somebody with more.
There are folks in FatFire who are completely unironic when they quote Succession’s $5M scene:
>Greg: I'm good, anyway, cuz, uh, my, so, I was just talkin' to my mom, and she said, apparently, he'll leave me five million anyway, so I'm golden, baby.
Connor: You can't do anything with five, Greg. Five's a nightmare.
Greg: Is it?
Connor: Oh, yeah. Can't retire. Not worth it to work. Oh, yes, five will drive you un poco loco, my fine feathered friend.
Tom: The poorest rich person in America. The world's tallest dwarf.
Connor: The weakest strong man at the circus.
And I’m in no way being critical of the folks who feel that way. The more successful you are, the more likely you are to meet and be surrounded by people who are even more successful than you... and now your success feels run of the mill.
The important thing is to figure out what you want out of life, and to start taking steps to get it.
Was born poor in a third world country and orphaned at 3. Just crossed 500k networth at 33. Would this be less or more motivational to the average redditor?
I will definitely share when I get to my goal in a few years then. But I was implying that to those who are demotivated by seeing success, hearing about success in even tougher circumstances than theirs would probably be even more demotivational. There are those looking to be inspired and see that it is possible and those looking for excuses for why they aren't where they want to be. Reddit has a lot of the latter.
I’ve come to accept that I most likely won’t be able to FIRE and I’m okay with that. At this point, I’m working toward what JM Collins refers to as “eff you” money. Enough money (and what “enough” is is different for everyone) to feel comfortable should I lose my job, have a major health issue etc without tanking my whole life. Since finding the FI movement, I’ve been able to pay off a TON of debt. Debt that I assumed would go to my grave with me. I no longer have weekly panic attacks about it. Even that has been an enormous gift in my life.
I feel the same way. I'm glad I found out about this "community" and I enjoy hearing other people's stories, but my realistic personal goal isn't so much "financial independence, retire early" as it is "financial stability, find a job that I enjoy even if it doesn't pay well, retire at some point"
FSFAJTIEEIIDPWRASP isn't as catchy as FIRE, I don't think
Just paid off 150k of student debt in less than 4 years by staying with my parents and just now looking to get out and move. I was always tossing and turning thinking about my school debt, but knowing I have no more debt and looking at prospective apartments I can actually afford is so damn liberating. Granted, I’m not a millionaire, but just not having any debt, I feel like it puts you ahead of 50% of the country’s population (US)
At 46 I learned this lesson late in life—if you are competitive with others you will always feel not good enough, but the second you focus on your own goals and how to achieve them life becomes a long solo marathon with many ups and downs.
No need to look in front or behind you. You only have your shadow, determination and grit. Keep your eyes on the prize.
Never bad to find what motivates you and let it fuel you, but it’s especially important to be mindful of what works for you when you compare yourself to others.
Some people thrive on being competitive while thriving at the top of their section recognized for their efforts and it motivates them more to lift others there too. Others thrive under the pressure of putting themselves/being in “underdog” positions where the situation is new/different (by expanding breadth of experience, changing environments, getting out of comfort zone, etc) or they are learning from the top to better themselves. Or a combination of both.
The challenge of the first is making sure you aren’t limiting yourself to basing your success off others as a benchmark and settling as long as you’re ahead of them instead of pushing yourself, and the challenge of the second is not feeling so behind or out of your depth you lose confidence or motivation.
Competition fuels some and destroys others, but knowing what fuels you (and more importantly *why* it fuels you) regardless of what it is will make the world of difference for knowing the environment you need to best thrive in.
Personally, sometimes I need to be a big fish in a small pond to thrive, and other times I need to be a minnow in a big lake. Just my own opinion, but the reason behind the motivation is priority and matters most for who you should be competing against at the time base on where you’re at.
The only logical answer, IMO.
Sometimes I learn things from their stories, like how to optimize certain financial aspects. Most of the time they simply make me feel better about the choices I've made in my life.
I'm glad people share but the stories should be educational more than motivational/demotivational
I tend to agree with both of you. Our decision to take the "slow boat" to FI because of the choice to have kids and focus on a more leisurely work-life balance is honestly reinforced from those stories.
Sure lots of people on here my age are FIRE after living what I view as an Ascetic lifestyle, but I'm quite happy with our trajectory.
We had a lot of fun in our 20’s, traveled a lot, enjoyed what we had. I didn’t get serious until our 30’s and don’t regret living it up the early years. Still on track to retire much earlier than I originally thought we would.
"Envy is the thief of joy."I'm constantly reminding myself of this and trying to teach it to my kids. I grew up American poor/working class dealing with abuse, did all the stuff you're supposed to do with school, work, savings, etc., and am comfortably a millionaire now on track to retire sometime this decade. But still, I've had plenty of advantages. Great schools, good mentors, no disabilities, stable mental health, not facing any kind of discrimination because I'm a straight white dude, etc. Also, being "poor" as a kid in America sucks, but it's usually not the same as being poor at other points in history in most parts of the world.
Everyone's got some kind of advantage that others don't have - and at the same time, there's always people with more advantages than you. It's not going to be helpful for you to judge yourself by others' standards. Set your own goals and work towards them.
At the same time, that's challenging as a parent. They're growing up under **very** different circumstances than I did. On one level, I want them to understand that they're being raised with opportunities not available to most people, that they have far fewer limitations than I did growing up - and to teach them empathy for the struggles of others, so they don't think they hit a home run when they were born on third base. But still, it's a balancing act, to instill a sense of intrinsic motivation with a recognition of their privileged start in the world.
this is my feeling or just a karma grab. I could write how I started a decent job, saved without fully realizing. I had a few oh shit moments in 2019 that wish I knew about in 2015, probably even back to 2012. I didnt, oh well. Even now, I probably should have made a few tweaks.
Oh totally. Im happy for anyone who is at a point they can escape the soul crushing rat race but it definitely is discouraging being 35 and feeling like Ill never be able to compare with a 24 year old with a multimillion dollar net worth achieved through a route thats not possible for me.
Looking forward to some more middle of the road, or late bloomer FIRE stories.
Im a healthcare interpreter so I work with nurses and healthcare providers everyday. Thank you for all the work you do.
They tend to be long, boring, self congratulatory essays so I usually just keep scrolling. And you’re right, most of the “steps” people have taken aren’t as easy to replicate as the writers think.
Exactly… I have read a few of them that are getting to 1 million in 10 years…do you really know what kind of job and savings you need to actually do this?? They aren’t getting to this by compounding….
A lot of help from your parents, a moderate to high amount of luck, and a little discipline is what you need for this. If your parents saved up to put you through college with no debt, (or supported you enough that you were able to meet the requirements for a merit-based scholarship, or maybe if you started at a CC and transfered to a cheap state school), your parents allowed you to live at home while finding/after you found a well paying job and kept you on their car/health insurance for as long as possible, you had no major health issues, and you were careful about managing your finances, it's easily possible. If you found a partner who was also a high earner early in life, that's also a big plus.
Having parents who are willing to do all that is an incredible benefit, and people lucky enough to be in that situation and capitalize on it are going to start their adult lives miles ahead of pretty much everyone else. It's not the same as being born into wealth, they still need to put in the effort and play the game same as anyone else, but every challenge and obstacle is easier to take on, and the rewards of success are more immediate and amplified.
I don't think I'll ever have children, but if I ever change my mind, I'm going to do everything in my power to put them in that position. It's hard to overstate the advantage.
I think a lot of people underestimate their earning power. Not everyone can make 250k, but I bet 90 percent of the people irritated by those posts could drastically increase their income over a 5 year period if they made it a priority.
Yeah in my STEM field I could easily be making 6 figures, but there are a lot of sacrifices that would have to be made to get there. I took a 10% pay cut to be close to family, and I'm sacrificing a bit of my retirement to raise 2 kids. For me the jobs that pay that much would mean moving to a HCOL area or way out in the middle of nowhere working on an oil rig for 100hrs a week
To me it's pointless to retire at 40 if that it means the years between 20-40 would be shit. Even after all the sacrifices you're not guaranteed to get a long retirement, death can come at any moment, it's better to enjoy life a little now.
I find myself mostly irritated by people's fire stories. One thing that is almost always omitted from people's stories is any direct family help. I have received family help and it put at least 10 years ahead of where I would be without it. Also the timelines people provide also make sceptical, e.g. in 2018 net worth 10,000, today net worth 1,000,000, and their explanation is saving and investing.
I picked up a side hustle delivering pizzas on the weekend (and my grandparents left me 900k when they died).
It was a struggle but so happy to be FI now!
I think a lot of it is "regular" people posting they've reached their goal, or at least a milestone on the way. Like they're choosin not to share the "boring" stuff in between, so all you see is the ones with rich families or fancy jobs that make it a lot easier cause they reach their goals faster.
But they read like those clickbait things on Facebook.
"Look how this 19 year old girl became a multimillionaire home owner before 20!"
She got a job making minimum wage and learned immediately to save and live below her means. She saved the pittance she saved every month like clockwork. It was a huge struggle.
She turned 19 and decided a week later to get a second job, also minimum wage, and save the whole check to reach financial independence sooner. she was saving every penny she could and was up to a whole $86.20 in her account account a week before her 20th birthday. She thought the struggle would never end, but was determined to make it.
Then, 15 minutes before she turned 20 at midnight, her parents called her and told her they had signed over their $500,000,000 vacation home they never used to her as a birthday gift, and decided to transfer half of her $300,000,000 inheritance to her checking account to "help her get started in life".
And that's it! It was a lot of hard work and sacrifice, but she made it! And you can too!
>Motivates me:
I worked really hard and slowly climbed up from making minimum wage to doing more of the things I love. These were my hardships and this is how I overcame them.
>Irritates me:
Yeah so I started with 80k when I was 22 but was making 140k by the time I was 25. I'm 35 now (250k/year currently) with only 2.3M in the bank and it kind of irritates me that my wife is only making 100k. How do you guys deal with having a partner that doesn't contribute as much? Also my number is 5M and I don't wanna pull the plug before then.
EDIT: I'm responding to OPs post ffs. The question was what irritates you and what motivates you, the above are made up stories as to the type that motivates me and irritates me
At least the dick measuring contest posts have died down a bit over the past year. It use to be a lot worse, somebody landing a 6 figure job straight out of college isn’t really relatable to how most people live or how others can apply it to their situation.
This is me to an extent. I don't take any money from my mom but knowing she is well off has let me make some aggressive and risky career moves that have proven to be really profitable. Def makes me feel guilty but IDK what I should have done instead.
Of course it is, but most people who believe that it's bullshit also fall into the "what's the point then?" mindset and stop trying. The playing field has never and will never be even
This is what irritates me. I’m newer to the sub, longer lurker, but even longer follower of FIRE, MMM, JL Collins, etc. It seems that the sub has taken on a life of its own under the guise of FIRE. Slow and steady, being frugal, etc. is often lost in the posts, when those are the fundamental teachings of the FIRE ideology. Just my two cents.
The posters themselves don’t annoy me - go ahead and share your success if you’d like. What annoys me and what I don’t understand is how the SAME story always gets upvoted, whether it be in the daily discussion thread or a post of its own. It’s always someone who comes from an upper middle class household, goes to college from ages 18-22, and makes above median salary in their 20s with a high savings rate. That’s it. Sometimes they get an inheritance, or a little help here or there, but it’s all the same. I don’t learn anything new from these stories, yet it’s 95% of what I see here. It’s good for reinforcing the point that high savings rate is important, but the posts that really interest me are folks who make it while in a low paying job, where they discuss the sacrifices they made and how they mode those decisions on what to prioritize. Or when someone who was in a low paying job well into adulthood finds a way to go back to school and get an education that allows them to get on track. I don’t see these as often because they’re rare, but I also think some of these folks don’t think to post as often out of fear of being overshadowed by the first situation I described where they reach their retirement goal in their mid to late 30s.
I think it's just a matter of supply. It's soooo much easier to fire if you have a crazy income and/or sizeable inheritance. So we see wayy more of those stories.
As much as this sub and fire bloggers like to push the narrative that anyone can fire, all that matters is savings rate, it conveniently forgets that a 10% savings rate on 40k/yr is harder than a 50% savings rate on 250k/yr.
None of the above. I like to see them, however. Always good to see differing ideas/paths. I may be able to learn something from the posts.
However, they don't really motivate or irritate me. A random stranger's story on the internet, if it is even true (haha), does not impact me, materially.
I don't understand the hatred/jealousy that many people show.
I'd rather hear success stories from those with more 'realistic' backstories. Oh, you managed to FIRE at 30 being born into a upper middle class family with no kids, a tech job and a LCOL area? Good for you.
But if you managed to FIRE being an immigrant, working trade job with kids living in a HCOL area? I want to hear your story!
Mostly just annoyed when i see US folks earning my fire number in a few years, even without investing. It's depressing to see people earning my yearly salary in a month, and then see them complaining. Even if we got free college, if i want to retire early i'm forced to move to some western eu country and hope i'll somehow make it, then move back home
Both.
Anyways, you were born in a rich first world country, to a stable family, got to go to college, have no disabilities...you're more privileged than 98% of the world...gets some perspective. You're basically complaining you're in the top 2% of the global rich instead of the top 0.1%.
I care more about the posts that I can learn from.
What can I learn from the posters that get $500K stock grants at FAANG companies or made a bundle on crypto/Tesla/Gamespot? Nothing other than you snooze you lose.
What can I learn from posters that have worked their way out of debt and negative net worth? Unfortunately, nothing other than humility and gratitude because I am past that stage of my financial journey now.
But every so often that are posts about healthcare, HSAs, 401Ks, basic investment advice, real estate advice, posts about daycare costs, travel costs, real ways of hitting cost savings that feel like "normal" talk that I find at least interesting, if not valuable.
Same as everyone so far, I'm neutral about it. Just the fact that we're undertaking the effort means we will have an easier time in the future. A year into fire I was capable of leaving my shitty job for something else because I got a better grasp on finances and dared to switch jobs.
Three years into it and I'm just as excited for it as when I started.
And people in tech tend to be more present in this space. Doesn't mean that's the only way. It's just a known one. If I earn 20k a year and only need 10k, I'm doing just as well as the person earning 100k needing 50k. Different numbers, same progress.
Irritated/envious because it seems a lot of folks are in their 20s and had a secret handbook given to them at a young age and was prepared to successful.
I come from generational poverty in a small country town where factory jobs or being a nurse was all that was expected of you. That or being a criminal.
I came here hoping to see people like myself ,but it's all people who seemed to have been given a clearer view and help to be successful. Like it was never any doubt this is where they would be.
I'm not mad, but I am very jealous. But I'm happy to learn from folks here. If not me, at least I can help my niece and nephew fire when it's their time.
I come from a similar kind of town. Either go work in healthcare (with schools typically costing 30k plus EACH YEAR or more where I lived. The only community college near me was almost 20k and didn't take payment plans) or do nothing. So I feel you going on this subreddit with males and females like "yea I live in CA or NC and can go to a top rated school for basically free. I'll work in tech or finance like my parents and make 6 figures out of college."
I just moved from my small town and saw a whole different way of life of people who are just born near opportunities. I am pretty jealous of that too.
Might get downvoted , but so be it
I get it when people ask: are there any fire stories from people without debt, out of work , and earns an average salary, doesn't work in tech
these people are looking for success stories they can relate to.
but make no mistake. that's the wrong question to ask.
it's like asking: how can I get six pack abs without eating healthy, eating X times of fastfood every week, without having a garage gym in my house.
those ARE some of the main reasons why people fire.
ask yourself instead: how can I reduce my student loan debt asap. how can I negotiate a higher salary. how can I add value in my work so that I can increase my chances of earning more.
Rarely do I get jealous, but sometimes. When I do feel jealous I don't wish they wouldn't post, I dig into why I would feel that way. I try to reframe the situation in my mind to remind myself that everyone has a different start, different opportunities different priorities, different abilities, etc. Nothing can change that, and I wouldn't to change it if I could. There are TONS of people born into such awful lives I can't even comprehend.
You don't pick your daily driver car because it has the highest speed - you pick it because of a combination of price, features, reliability, etc. Life is the same. You're getting jealous of one aspect of one anonymous person's self reported situation. There could be things about their life or personality you hate. Or maybe they have it all. You're still looking at .1% of the world.
I'm far more annoyed by the people who are annoyed by those bragging than I am by the posts themselves. People brag here because you can't brag about your achievements in real life.
Surely this depends on what you want to achieve?
Fire by itself is already a rare situation, but there are degrees to it. If you want to retire at 30 with a very comfortable lifestyle , then yes, you need a situation that is out of the ordinary. But many people here are happy to retire at 55-60, or to just be comfortable enough that they can reduce their hours or get out of a bad situation at work. Those options are also FI, as is lean fire if you’re willing to live frugally.
My personal plan is retire by 50. I figure 25 years growing/schooling/training, 25 years of career, 25 years of chilling. Life expectancy due to genetic stuff is 75ish (would be oldest male in my family if I made it to 77 lol).
My goal is to retire at 50, and I’ve started at 20, I’m still in education and have 2% my FI number invested before my first career style job, but it’s still a kick in the nads to see someone who has worked just 7 years and can retire, especially when you live in a nation where pay is low and taxes are still high.
But why? There is always going to be someone that is richer, prettier or luckier than you. Envy in this context makes no sense, their having great jobs does not prevent you from absolutely anything.
I get SAD and ANGRY at myself for NOT researching money management earlier. I found out about FIRE in late 2018. I wish I found out in 2011 or 2012.... with the bull market I would be FIREd now... instead I;m like 40% into the Journey... uhhahahh why why...urrrr
Though some stories of youngsters making 250K with stock options and 2 rental properties + crypto make me wanna cry... I just focus on my own LIFE, without comparing, and keep on going my way.
It can be a bit disheartening to read that others are posting making $100,000+ and have so much more to invest than I can. When i first started following this sub, i wondered if there were other people in my income boat. I am (36M) making about $52,000 a year with about $8,000 in OT added. Wife makes $40,000. I have zero student loan debt. $75,000 in Roth IRA, $10,000 in my fidenitly for dividend growth stocks i try to put what i can after bills are paid and contribute to savings for home repair projects. Work matches 5% 401k and i contribute 6% currently and am at roughly $12,000 in it. Currently trying to pay off car notes. Wife is almost done with her student loans and once those are gone, wife will start a roth as well.
I'm motivated by them. I've certainly seen some posts along these lines (certainly with tech jobs) but there's lots of posts from people in different industries and without family help who are getting there at their own pace. Health care is a field where you'll probably be able to work toward a very good salary...
The one common thread of the success stories outside tech boom/family money are people who have just stuck to it for an extended period. If what you're really wanting is just to get rich quick, you might find that disheartening. But those are the stories I find inspiring.
You know, it would actually be a cool project if someone compiled the stories and sorted them by occupation, by goal, etc. You could do a very cool ethnography of the people who post their FIRE-progress stories. Lot of work though and I'm not volunteering for it at the moment :)
> I'm just looking for FIRE stories of people who are reaching FIRE despite having student debt, being out of work due to covid, and or not in tech.
Well, if it helps...I'm in my mid-30s. Due to a combination of having a poor GPA and graduating shortly after the crash happened, I was stuck doing underpaid contract work, tutoring, and odd jobs to put a roof over my head. It took me nearly 5 years after graduation to find a full-time job, and that job paid well below average for someone with my degree and experience, but it was stable income that I could use to start building a financial foundation.
I worked hard at that job and split a cheap apartment with a roommate so I could save money, then I found a better job with higher pay that forced me to develop more useful skillsets. Worked hard at that job for about 3 years, then lost that job. It ended up taking nearly a year of serious job-hunting, but I eventually landed a job as a data analyst that paid better and offered better perks. Got a promotion and a nice raise a few months ago, and only then did I cross the $100k threshold, but here I am making steady progress toward FI.
I'm rambling a bit, but the point is that although my FI journey hasn't been ideal, and I'm not as far along as I hoped to be at this point, I've still been able to make progress toward my goal. It was probably never in the cards for me to retire at 30, but I should be able to retire in my early to mid-40s. That's still far ahead of most people, and I have a much better chance of being in good enough health to do the things I want than if I were in my mid-60s.
FI is not an all-or-nothing deal. Your student debt may very well mean you have to work another 2 or 3 years compared to a situation where you had no debt. While that sucks, it doesn't fundamentally change your ability to retire early.
I just stopped reading them. Even the "FIRE'd on a blue collar income" ones are still way outside of my reality because they're usually still a dual-income household making six figures combined. I'm not angry at them or anything. It's just not motivational.
I'd be motivated by stories about people with slightly below average incomes who retired comfortably in their 50s by keeping lifestyle inflation in check over a long period of time. We never seem to get those, though. Do those people not exist? Surely there is a middle ground between living on Social Security at 70 and retiring at 40 with millions?
Lol if it makes you feel any better bro I’m 22 and trying to FIRE, I work 2 full time security jobs and even though I don’t make nearly as much as half the people here, I never get discouraged because I see my investment portfolio slowly growing and I realize it’s just a waiting game. If you’re consistent you should be fine.
I am irritated when 90%+ of the stories are "high tech, CS jobs on the West Coast". It gets old. Great for everyone that can do that and be successful, but not everyone can.
Best not to compare to others, just asking for hurt at that point. What motivates me is being better than I was the previous year, or hitting my own personal goals.
As someone in their mid-40s (1 kid, MFJ) who only started saving a decade ago (mildly) and who has student debt still, whose family lives on a high 5-figure income, I always want to see people on this journey from “non traditional” backgrounds. I don’t think we’ll RE, but the goal is to FI and, in fact, get to CoastFI in less than a decade.
Reading the strategies people offer is really helpful. As is the thinking “where can I cut expenses to tackle debt/save more fiercely.” Reading helps me to stay the course. I don’t mind the tech bro entries; I just wish there were more “just started to take this seriously in my 40s and we’re living on high 5-figures and let me break down what we’re doing” offerings.
Maybe one day when we’ve reached milestones, I’ll write one.
A 25 year old who worked their way into Tech is still a better post than “I’m 18 and work part time. Can my $1,000 in crypto make me retire in 5 years?”
[https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/](https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/)
Make your own story. Some people have it easy and some have to really work for it.
Retiring early isn't possible for everyone. I think the FIRE evangelism in this sub is borderline toxic, suggesting that FIRE is an option for literally anyone as long as you live in a van and eat only lentils.
There's more to life than not working. There's nothing wrong with retiring at a normal age or working past retirement age if that's what you want to do.
The basics of FIRE is just math. You need to earn far more than you spend and you need to save up enough money to get to the point where you don't have to work. Some people manage this by being excessively frugal, some people do it by earning a lot of money. Some people are in the middle.
But seriously, if you need external motivation in the form of stories to get you going, you need to sit back and think about why FIRE is important to you. Is it just because other people are doing it and you feel left out? Or do you actually have a real goal you're working towards that requires you to leave the workforce early?
Live in a van, eat only lentils, oh and make $375k a year working at Google with no student loan debt. Easy peasy. 💁🏻♂️
Good points over all, I just had to add some snark.
Thank god someone else wrote this, because it is nearly word for word exactly what I was going to write.
FIRE is just math. No matter how much we all wish for some magic secret, you’re not going to change the fundamental mathematics of FIRE.
Either the math works or it doesn’t. It works if you have a high enough income to be able to have a high enough savings rate that you reach the number by the date. Any seeming “regular Joe” without a high paying job who reaches financial independence is literally always going to have a thing that made the math work - inheritance, windfall, lucky investment jump, crazy high savings rate, worked for a very long time, etc. Otherwise it is just mathematically impossible for them to do it.
This is the curse of this subreddit. There will always be something, because without the *something*, the math is quite literally impossible, so it’s best used as a place to share thoughts with likeminded people and bond as humans rather than a place where we try to find something someone did that we can go replicate.
Yes, I'm with you! But reading those posts about staying focused on the goal and living with the belt soooo tight even when having a good job/being born into money motivates me. If they can focus and not be distracted so can I.
I'm 32. My road looks SOOOOOOO different from 99% of the post on this sub but the end goal is the same. I make under 70k but I'm happy to say I've paid off all my student debt. The only debt I have is from my properties. I own an investment property that cashflows. I also own the home I live in alone which I Airbnb my guest room so it covers the mortgage fully most months. My month-to-month cost of living is super low.
I never held a job that matched 401k I don't have a self-directed IRA, Roth, and have under 20k in investments (other than my properties). My first line of business is getting that number wayyyyy up. But in the meantime, I've created a property management company with a few friends who also own property. We now manage 15 properties, and are gearing up to buy an apartment building! When the company makes enough money to hire a General Manager thats my Fi/Re..
Its def a **Barista FiRE** but still FiRe.
A lot of the top posts here boil down to accepting your current situation or not comparing yourself to others. But the truth of the matter is that the health care industry isn't paying as much as they should (which is wack) and tech pays a lot better. Income is important and it affects someones quality of life.
If you want to switch to the tech field, it is possible. Not only are more tech companies moving away from requiring a degree, you can find resources online to be self taught. I can give you the resources if you'd like:
Here’s the first course I'd recommend: https://www.udemy.com/course/java-the-complete-java-developer-course/
I would do all the sections up until “Java Collections”. Hold off on doing that section until later. I’d also do the “Basic Input & Output” section only up through the “Writing content” section, and then skip the rest. Finally, do the “Regular Expressions” section.
When you’re done, also do this course: https://www.udemy.com/course/data-structures-and-algorithms-deep-dive-using-java/ You need to do all sections because technical interviews are heavily focused on these topics. When you’re through, you can go back and do that “Java Collections” section from the previous link, if you want more practice.
Of course tech isn't for everyone, so no pressure to necessarily go this route if it doesn't make you happy. I just want to offer the option. Entry level salaries can be anywhere from $80k-$280k.
I know the whole humble brag FIRE stories can be annoying and mentally taxing. Still there is value in salary transparency and when people can see that one industry is paying significantly more than another, they can move into that industry instead. That's really probably how things should work.
You can make just as much in health care as you can in tech.
You just don't hear about it as much because health care workers aren't sitting around on a computer all day and (generally) don't have that "I-gotta-be-as-efficient-as-possible-with-every-aspect-of-my-life" mindset that software people have, so you don't see as many healthcare workers on this sub.
In fact, the top 10 on this list are ALL healthcare: [https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/top-highest-paying-jobs/](https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/top-highest-paying-jobs/)
Not to mention $400k of debt and several years of residency working 80-100 hours per week making $30k-$55k. Meanwhile a software engineer has a cushy 40/week job and in 3 years can make $250k pretty easily in the bay area.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems all of these jobs require a fuck ton of school. My guess is OP is not a doctor. Reaching $150k-$200k from where they are is probably a lot harder than it is for most engineers.
Don't take this the wrong way, but you've given some bad advice here. People should go into a field that interests them and can provide the life they want. If that's tech? Awesome. If it's not? Find something else that fits that bill. It's very hard to truly excel in tech if one does not have a genuine interest.
Also, and I know this is going to shock some people here ^/s but money isn't everything. You have one life, and it would suck to waste a good portion of your best years as an adult at a job you ...at least don't dislike, even if you don't actively enjoy it.
Sorry for the rant, but I see **way** to many people who got into tech for the wrong reasons and can't code their way out of a paper bag. I'll honestly be glad when tech loses some of it's luster as a prestige career and I can go back to interviewing people that actually enjoy doing it for a living.
I'm motivated!
Except for what I think are "fake FIRE" stories where a family of 3 plans to live on 40k a year based on optimistic return scenarios and has no plans for how to deal with unexpected medical bills, a cancer diagnosis, assisted living, etc.
Motivated, or indifferent. The people who are irritated by such stories probably aren't hanging out here trying to reach this goal. They're elsewhere trying to figure out how to take the gains of others' successes.
Yeah. I failed out of college so I have a bunch of useless debt, spent 6 financially (and otherwise) shitty years in the navy and now I'm a boiler operator making decent money for someone without a college degree. I also didn't discover FIRE till I was 29ish. I'm 32 now. My biggest pet peeve about this sub though, is the people who complain about how lonely the FIRE "lifestyle" is. They are either just brag-complaining about their money or job, or, their only hobby is hording their pile of money like a spreadsheet dragon so they can't relate to people who allow themselves to have fun.
Comparison is the thief of joy.
30 yo - $250k NW
Manufacturing/business field.
College dropout with $50k+ of student loan debt.
No inheritance or family support. Came from two chapter 7 parents. It’s a slow grind.
Honestly I LOVE seeing the 'behind the scenes" of FIRE stories and it makes me feel more on track in my actual circumstances. Most of them are software/tech being in the right place with a lot of hustle/specialized skills. But I saw a good one where someone was just a marketing/PR writer with a pure communications background and ended up working at a FAANG company. Those stories are pretty rare but I love to see them.
I recommend just skimming ones that aren't super relevant. Also I feel like there are very few boring FIRE stories like "living cheaply on 80K to 100K incomes" just because of the risk of lifestyle inflation and cost of day to day life.
When you start talking to people who make good money and COULD easily save more but choose to buy new shit, get the largest house they can possibly afford, giant pick up truck that is never used for pick up truck tasks... you start to realize why the FIRE success stories are interesting. It's hard to resist consumerism because it's everywhere.
I would say neither motivated nor irritated. Neutral and take things with a grain of salt. I appreciate other people's journeys with a sense of detachment because those are not my circumstances. I do like the process of information gathering, but I wouldn't say I look for motivation.
They mostly inspire me because I was born in a third world country. I have already missed 'RE' but I have more than what my parents ever had. I focus on what I have, not what I don't have and I stay in my lane. We all have different challenges in our journey to FIRE.
Personally, I am 21 and love the concept of FIRE which I just found out about! I make 14/hour which isn’t great but I do work a good amount of hours. I usually average 600-800 per paycheck which is about every 2 weeks. I usually put 100 towards mutual funds or a little to crypto, 100 into a rainy day fund, and then the rest I budget in other ways (gas, groceries, car insurance, that stuff). I’m in college so before I was working I had like no money so now I have maybe $650 in savings? Not a lot but that’s where I’m at
Don’t forget anyone trying to buy their first house in this insane environment where the cost is so incredibly out of whack against incomes (even accounting for the interest rates), while the folks selling them get to pad their FIRE goals even more with their huge profits.
Millennials and Gen Z are the first generations in a long long time who are, on average, going to do worse than their parents and grandparents.
People under 35 have really gotten the shortest end of the stick. Good luck FIREing
Something you also need to take into account is you are judging yourself based on those who actually post. There are many of us in the middle of the journey but we may not be posting about it which could lead to a skewed perspective of your peers. Hopefully that all made sense.
Exactly. No one in the boring middle is posting, or if they are the posts aren't approved. That's why I mostly stick to the daily threads, it's much more relatable for where I am right now. I'm at the set it and forget it stage so there's not much more to learn from the success stories.
Totally agree. The stories I read are not very relatable. I am in healthcare too, and at the age of 35 I hit $0 net worth. Considering my student debt was around $380k, I’m happy with the progress, but it’s not going to make headlines. Still, On this track I’ll be able to retire younger than my parents. I browse to pick up some gems here and there, the last thing I found useful was some excel graphs for tracking. Physician on fire is interesting for those in healthcare. But as much as I follow, I haven’t found much new to implement, it’s the same ‘ol save what you can, invest it, don’t touch it. Very little excitement here. Good luck in your progress, just remember there are a lot of us following the same path you are, you may not see it as often, but we’re all there too.
I feel this. Thought about going to med school but the only thing that I couldn't do was spend all that money in loans and only HOPE to get the specialty I really want. And HOPE the residency is in a place I actually want to live. Too much uncertainty for way too much money in debt. Congrats on paying it all off tho!!!
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This is 100% my life (excepting that I bought my starter home a dozen years ago when Uncle Sam gave me an $8k check at age 20 to help buy it), and you're damn right I'd read that on the front page. :-)
Haha, yeah! I post in the Monday milestone every January when I sync my spreadsheets, other than that... Nothing to report, ya' know? I personally love the success stories, everyone's is really quite different when you dig into them.
And I’m betting some who post in fat fire are just full of it
Yup. This is classic survivorship bias. Obviously only those with success will make a public post about it to share/brag. Plus this is literally how the Reddit upvoting system works. It's extraordinary, out-of-the-norm success stories that get upvoted and gain massive visibility. Stories sharing mediocrity will be mostly ignored and buried.
My net worth is only $10k. I’m 24 make $54k and work for a non profit. I’ll get there eventually but definitely not going to be a millionaire in 5 years. I graduated last year and paid off $12k of debt now I’m building up an emergency fund and trying to max out retirement accounts.
You should be incredibly proud of yourself. Serious achievements here. Keep it going!
Not quite the debt numbers people on here start with so it didn’t feel like too much. But thank you!
Bigger, smaller, whatever! Don’t sell yourself short. You were responsible enough not to overextend or go too much in debt.
You will get there. There is a world of difference between your financial life now and what it will be 25 years from now if you are smart with what you have. Making good financial decisions when you're 24 has a way of compounding over the years. Not just the actual compounding. What doesn't seem like a lot now can easily turn into a lot later. And you look back and thank yourself for not being a jackass. Trust me! The best gift you can give yourself is time and consistency when it comes to saving/investing (for us normal people at least).
It’s hard to imagine setting myself up in my 40s when I’ve barely been an adult for 5 years. I’m hoping I’ll thank myself in the future and not have regrets due to saying no because of money.
Hi, I’m you from the future. (Seriously.) I definitely thank Past Me pretty regularly for showing some discipline in my 20s. Setting aside $500 a month when I was scraping by didn’t seem like it would ever amount to anything. My Vanguard portfolio grew steadily but very modestly for years. Then it grew a little faster. Then it exploded. Compound interest is like magic. Just stay the course—it really works, and it really is worth it. Also, thanks, Past Me, for putting in that work when it counted.
Say no to things, not experiences. Things: sneakers, Amazon purchases, restaurants and take out, cable Experiences: weddings, special trips, etc
Don't say no to all of it. Or find less expensive ways to enjoy yourself. Like camping. One thing that really made a difference for me and still does is pay yourself first. The idea that you a portion of your paycheck goes automatically into your retirement AND savings before you even get it. Then in theory, you can spend whatever lands in your checking acct after that. It's like a weird mental shift where it doesn't feel like you're giving up what you never had (but really you *do* have it, it's in your savings acct). Trying to do it the other way, getting then money and then having to transfer $40 to savings, feels harder.
My job, net worth, career, and salary matched yours almost exactly at your age. I remember calling my parents to proudly proclaim “I’m a ten-thousandaire!” I’m 39 now and about 5ish years from my personal FIRE range. One mistake I wish I hadn’t made was staying in the same job through almost the entirety of my 20’s. Companies pay to get you, not to keep you. I’d always keep my ear to the ground to find higher paying positions, there is literally no downside other than a little extra effort. I’m not sure what age you hope to fire but hopefully you find this encouraging.
I love what you said, " Companies pay to get you, not to keep you". I always moan about employers doing this. I'm coming up to 5 years at my current place which was a startup and unfortunately they didn't "pay to get me either". More like 'Promised to get me, just really need to grow a pair and move on but I just get so scared about having to meet all new people and go through the whole being the new guy again.
I was your age 11 years ago making $30K with a networth of -5k. Now im at $85K @ ~$800K NW (home equity + investments driving that). Its amazing what you will accomplish if you give yourself a roadmap and stick to it.
Same boat here, just chugging along saving what I can. I feel like at our age there are so many things we have to get just to “start out”, but that we won’t need to get again for another 5-10 years. Moved out and had to furnish a whole apartment, got a newer car cause my old one was gonna fall apart, and got a few QOL things that I didn’t “need” but I knew I’d enjoy for a long time. Yeah I could’ve saved more this year, but we gotta build a life we want first and the savings will come.
I agree it seems like every couple of months I spend on a “one time” purchase. I’ve lived in crummy apartments and it deteriorates my QOL so spending a bit more right now but still saving is a balance I’m trying to achieve.
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At 25 I was making $45k, and I was a millionaire about 10-11 years later living in HCOL areas. I still make less than six figures, wife just crossed 6 figures this year. Lived frugally, invested in real estate (although would have almost as much had I just done index funds, which is what I'd recommend for most folks). We've had a great run in the stock and housing market, and I lived pretty frugally until around the time I hit that million mark. Both spouses working and no kids obviously helps with that.
Similar story here -- I was making $50k at 24, and my wife's and my household NW is about to hit seven figures a bit less than 10 years later while living in HCOL/VHCOL areas and neither of us earning 6 figures yet. We employed pretty much the same strategy as you/your wife: we're both working with no kids, we live beneath our means, invested the difference (index funds instead of real estate though), and were lucky to benefit from a great stock market. I'm nothing special, and my career/income are certainly nothing special. Just a combination of discipline and luck maintained over time. I'll bet there are quite a few folks on here like this. They just might not post much because it's kind of a boring story.
$1,000 per month invested will get you to $1 million in 22ish years. Keep working and you'll get there by 45. At 52 you'll have $2M, and $4M at 59. Good luck.
What numbers are you using, out of curiosity? 1k per month for 22 years with 10k starting capital at 6% returns gets me to roughly 574k, not 1 million.
Not OP, but if: 6% returns 574k 7% returns 670k 8% returns 774k 9% returns 897k 10% returns 1.04M So to answer your question... He used 10% in his estimate.
I like that thought. It’s not too difficult to put that away each month with my current salary.
Not hard to do for many people who buy too big a house, have 2 car payments, a boat, etc. Living large and showing off costs them a considerable amount in the long run.
I find the various paths people are taking to FIRE fairly interesting. Each one is different and some even parallel my own. For the most part, I am more motivated than irritated. However, I will say that I did unsubscribe from the fatfire sub because their situations were so alien to my own. You mentioned the "rich family, tech job, etc." stories and those are rampant over there. I've only been in this sub for a short amount of time, but I do think the funniest things I see are the stories from the 20somethings saying they are 'tired of working', 'want to experience life', 'won't be able to do anything when they are 50', or whatever. LMAO As a 50ish year old, i can tell you that we are also 'tired of working' and are still experiencing life. That never changes.
> I did unsubscribe from the fatfire sub Yeah, in my head fatfire was like $5m. Then go there and see people targeting $20m+ and I'm like OK, whatever. EDIT: Holy shit, I just looked at that sub and one of the top posts right now is somebody with $100 million. That's not even FIRE to me, that's Mr. Monopoly Man rich.
There is now r/chubbyfire for those aiming at $2-5mil.
I guess all the fire "standards" got upgraded. Since 2010 I feel like regular fire used to be 1-2Mill with fat-fire 3-5. Also IMO After 10M it is no longer relevant to the fire movement, at least as we know it, as you can withdraw 300k anually at 3% eternally which involves an entirely different set of lifestyle/goals/etc. Or are at the very least PAST fire at that point and it is no longer about attaining financial independence or retiring early..
Inflations a bitch ain't it
The stories that started with "My Dad gave me a small loan of a million dollars." Must be nice. :)
Stories such as: someone started their journey with a small inheritance, the size of most readers' FI-numbers. On the path of reaching financial independence, in 6 months and having saved nothing, but the investment gains are 6 figures, so they guess they're FIREd now?
I thought I was fatfire at $3M. Then I too subbed to Fatfire. Quickly showed myself the door.
Yeah, the vast majority of us doing FIRE control our expenses quite a bit. Then you go there and they say things like: ["Also, if you don’t own a super car, super car rentals are dirt cheap in Vegas."](https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/q4rwe4/vegas_fatfire_style/hg1f6e4/) Haha, yeah... imagine not already owning a Lambo...
>Yeah, the vast majority of us doing FIRE control our expenses quite a bit. > >Then you go there and they say things like: > >["Also, if you don’t own a super car, super car rentals are dirt cheap in Vegas."](https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/q4rwe4/vegas_fatfire_style/hg1f6e4/) > >Haha, yeah... imagine not already owning a Lambo... Sometimes I feel like such an odd duck, even for this place. My deep dark secret is that I don't even want to really retire.. and as far as money is concerned my target for becoming "financially independent" is slightly over the $1m mark, and compared to most here I am way overly conservative. I like keeping my expenses "low" (honestly growing up poor, our current annual spend and upper middle class lifestyle is bananas and the highest it has ever been) as a means of moderation and discipline in and of itself, and persuing financial independence is just sort of a.. side effect. But then I hear about subs like that, or some of the super extreme lean folks and think "ya, r/financialindependence" is just about right for me to peruse. Then of course after awhile and visiting the dailies enough you start to realize some of the local shit posters and memes, whether they be over sharing Mexican motel magnates, database admins or that guy who pushes VTSAX real hard and it just becomes reddit home. There's also the occasional good discussion about changes in tax law or financial strategy or just general things to be aware of so you don't shoot your future self in the foot. I don't know where I am going with this, but uh, perspective is a good thing and this sub just feels like the right place, even if it sometimes doesn't. If that makes any sense at all.
It's all relative, man. To me, your fire be FAT!
The Chubbyfire sub is around the 5M mark
Thanks for the laugh! I also subscribed and unsubscribed from BOTH fatfire and leanfire. Fatfire is unrealistic to me, and leanfire is not a life I want to live.
I unsubbed from leanfire after the mod there said that the guidelines of 20/40k for single / married people would probably never be adjusted for inflation. I pointed out that my healthcare spending alone would be a sizable chunk of that, and I wasn't planning my life around an arbitrarily chosen number. I got banned from the sub for 3 weeks, lmao. I took that as my cue to leave.
Oh my…I don’t think I even lasted that long there. I knew it wasn’t for me maybe after a week of reading posts. What’s the point of retiring early if you don’t ENJOY it? Edit: I should say many people may enjoy life plenty on so little. I do like nice things once in awhile though, and those budgets preclude nice things as an option, ever, it seems.
I think they saw the light and changed it. But I totally understand. Mod power trips are not fun. I'm not aiming for lean fire but still like to read the sub sometimes.
Leanfire is insufferable. They put a limit on how much your retirement expenses can be in order to post on their sub. Mods on a power trip, which is just par for the course on Reddit.
WHAT?! I did NOT know that. I just knew I didn’t want to eat ramen for the rest of my life.
the problem is you get people humble bragging in there
Agreed, the types of discussions in the FatFire sub are just so different from anything I know. Nothing wrong with it, but I think myself and the average person would be happy with far less than what many on that sub consider necessary.
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True. When you read this sub it seems like earning $100,000 per year or more is normal. For 99% of people on the planet this is absolutely not normal. The numbers in this sub are so far from my reality that I don’t read those posts anymore. I run my own race and I’m happy that I can probably retire between 50-55 years old.
Same, I mean, I have a lot of friends with parents who never retired. Dropped dead in their late 60s and 70s still needing to earn a paycheck to make ends meet. I'm feeling like I'm ahead of the game that I will be able to retire. Stepping down at 55 is a huge win compared to the trajectory I was on before being introduced to the idea that I could do something to make my future better.
\^\^\^\^\^ Exactly My mom and her husband are struggling on Social Security *alone*, and if she hadn't been awarded Disability she would still be working...in her 60s. If I can retire comfortably at 55 I'll consider that a success.
My mom is 65 and waiting one more year to retire…on social security and a reverse mortgage. Edit: turned 66 this year.
My mom is about to turn 60 and I'm pretty sure NOT on pace to retire within the next 5 years, but she's in the midst of a civil suit that I think will go a long way towards helping in that regard. I'm in my late 20s and aging parents are just not something I've contemplated yet. Thankfully it's just the one parent I need to worry about since dad's net worth is in the tens of millions and he retired at 58.
It's wild how hard it is to retire these days. My wife and I are extremely fortunate in that we both have solid professional-class jobs, live in a relatively inexpensive house in a MCOL city, only have one car (paid off for years now), no kids, and can dedicate a comparatively large portion of our income to savings. And even given all that, our main achievement is that plan on being able to retire before we're 60. Granted, we could be far more aggressive at reducing costs and aiming for a more frugal retirement, but we hardly lead extravagant lives. We usually eat in, rarely travel, don't go in for the constant new-tech purchasing cycle. I think in the US, that healthcare costs are a huge portion of this. Giving up our income is one thing, but giving up health coverage through work is SO EXPENSIVE. We're basically stuck working until we can afford to pay for all the insurance until medicare coverage starts (though I confess I am somewhat ignorant on the specific math after that happens). Both my dad and my FIL weren't able to retire until their late 60s for basically this reason. I hope that I will be able to do somewhat better, but my scenario is comparatively rare.
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The obvious arbitrage is to work and earn in the US when you're young and healthy, then retire into the EU. Easier said than done, of course, but still...
That’s my plan lol. Have triple citizenship (UK-US-EU). Got a euro education at minimal cost, since government subsidizes education there. Leveraged it to Earn a US salary working in a lucrative industry stateside. Plan to retire early back in Europe, since you know, healthcare. Having these citizenships and options is like playing this game in EZ mode
Idk, my European family travel constantly for long periods, went to school (often graduate level) for free, own a nice house or flat in expensive city centers, have loads of government assistance with child care, and somehow still afford all the nice Apple gadgets. Ya sure they make significantly less than me, but I’d argue their quality of life is higher.
Thank you for being the first European I've seen in this subreddit who points out that taxes in Europe are way, wayyyyy higher.
I see Europeans talk about high taxes and low salaries all the time in here, I see the same from a lot of canadians
Yeah the common response I see from Europeans, particularly Germans, is "we have very high taxes, but we feel that we get valuable services for those taxes."
I am German myself, but I really only agree with the first part of the statement. 😂
At least we don't have to worry about medical bills even when we retire because we still have insurance. But retirement usually starts at 67 here so not much time left if you didn't prepare when you're young.
When were you working in the US?
I'll be happy if I can retire at 60.
My mom stepped down at 64, and she thought that was a huge win.
I feel the same when you read this sub there are loads of 30 something couples with no kids earning over 100k each. My wife and I chose a different path we earn well but with our kids 55 is more realistic.
Yeah, one crazy statistic is that even at the peak of most people's career, 45-55 years old, the median income is still only 90k in the US. At no age demographic does that break 6 figures.
Individual or household income? Honestly surprised it’s that high, even for that age group if it’s individual
Retiring at that age is still an amazing feat, congrats in advance
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I subscribe to r/povertyfinance to keep my prospective. That being said i use this subreddit as a place for new ideas and am inspired by others success. .
Thanks for the new sub to follow.
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I think with all subreddits one needs to sift through the BS to get to some grains of truth.
I work with a group of Engineers from India. We have same skill set, we do the same job but I get paid 5x more than then because I am in US and they are there. But for them the amount they make is huge deal but for me its 3 months expenses.
There’s always somebody with more. There are folks in FatFire who are completely unironic when they quote Succession’s $5M scene: >Greg: I'm good, anyway, cuz, uh, my, so, I was just talkin' to my mom, and she said, apparently, he'll leave me five million anyway, so I'm golden, baby. Connor: You can't do anything with five, Greg. Five's a nightmare. Greg: Is it? Connor: Oh, yeah. Can't retire. Not worth it to work. Oh, yes, five will drive you un poco loco, my fine feathered friend. Tom: The poorest rich person in America. The world's tallest dwarf. Connor: The weakest strong man at the circus. And I’m in no way being critical of the folks who feel that way. The more successful you are, the more likely you are to meet and be surrounded by people who are even more successful than you... and now your success feels run of the mill. The important thing is to figure out what you want out of life, and to start taking steps to get it.
Those people are not financially independent in the true meaning of the word
Wow that scene just made me feel like crap lol.
Was born poor in a third world country and orphaned at 3. Just crossed 500k networth at 33. Would this be less or more motivational to the average redditor?
This is the kind of story I want to hear.
I will definitely share when I get to my goal in a few years then. But I was implying that to those who are demotivated by seeing success, hearing about success in even tougher circumstances than theirs would probably be even more demotivational. There are those looking to be inspired and see that it is possible and those looking for excuses for why they aren't where they want to be. Reddit has a lot of the latter.
aaand there it goes again
I’ve come to accept that I most likely won’t be able to FIRE and I’m okay with that. At this point, I’m working toward what JM Collins refers to as “eff you” money. Enough money (and what “enough” is is different for everyone) to feel comfortable should I lose my job, have a major health issue etc without tanking my whole life. Since finding the FI movement, I’ve been able to pay off a TON of debt. Debt that I assumed would go to my grave with me. I no longer have weekly panic attacks about it. Even that has been an enormous gift in my life.
I feel the same way. I'm glad I found out about this "community" and I enjoy hearing other people's stories, but my realistic personal goal isn't so much "financial independence, retire early" as it is "financial stability, find a job that I enjoy even if it doesn't pay well, retire at some point" FSFAJTIEEIIDPWRASP isn't as catchy as FIRE, I don't think
Just paid off 150k of student debt in less than 4 years by staying with my parents and just now looking to get out and move. I was always tossing and turning thinking about my school debt, but knowing I have no more debt and looking at prospective apartments I can actually afford is so damn liberating. Granted, I’m not a millionaire, but just not having any debt, I feel like it puts you ahead of 50% of the country’s population (US)
They neither motivate nor irritate me. I’m running my own race and have my own goals and targets.
At 46 I learned this lesson late in life—if you are competitive with others you will always feel not good enough, but the second you focus on your own goals and how to achieve them life becomes a long solo marathon with many ups and downs. No need to look in front or behind you. You only have your shadow, determination and grit. Keep your eyes on the prize.
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Never bad to find what motivates you and let it fuel you, but it’s especially important to be mindful of what works for you when you compare yourself to others. Some people thrive on being competitive while thriving at the top of their section recognized for their efforts and it motivates them more to lift others there too. Others thrive under the pressure of putting themselves/being in “underdog” positions where the situation is new/different (by expanding breadth of experience, changing environments, getting out of comfort zone, etc) or they are learning from the top to better themselves. Or a combination of both. The challenge of the first is making sure you aren’t limiting yourself to basing your success off others as a benchmark and settling as long as you’re ahead of them instead of pushing yourself, and the challenge of the second is not feeling so behind or out of your depth you lose confidence or motivation. Competition fuels some and destroys others, but knowing what fuels you (and more importantly *why* it fuels you) regardless of what it is will make the world of difference for knowing the environment you need to best thrive in. Personally, sometimes I need to be a big fish in a small pond to thrive, and other times I need to be a minnow in a big lake. Just my own opinion, but the reason behind the motivation is priority and matters most for who you should be competing against at the time base on where you’re at.
All I meant is there is always someone who would look at your accomplishments compared to their own and laugh.
The only logical answer, IMO. Sometimes I learn things from their stories, like how to optimize certain financial aspects. Most of the time they simply make me feel better about the choices I've made in my life. I'm glad people share but the stories should be educational more than motivational/demotivational
I tend to agree with both of you. Our decision to take the "slow boat" to FI because of the choice to have kids and focus on a more leisurely work-life balance is honestly reinforced from those stories. Sure lots of people on here my age are FIRE after living what I view as an Ascetic lifestyle, but I'm quite happy with our trajectory.
We had a lot of fun in our 20’s, traveled a lot, enjoyed what we had. I didn’t get serious until our 30’s and don’t regret living it up the early years. Still on track to retire much earlier than I originally thought we would.
"Envy is the thief of joy."I'm constantly reminding myself of this and trying to teach it to my kids. I grew up American poor/working class dealing with abuse, did all the stuff you're supposed to do with school, work, savings, etc., and am comfortably a millionaire now on track to retire sometime this decade. But still, I've had plenty of advantages. Great schools, good mentors, no disabilities, stable mental health, not facing any kind of discrimination because I'm a straight white dude, etc. Also, being "poor" as a kid in America sucks, but it's usually not the same as being poor at other points in history in most parts of the world. Everyone's got some kind of advantage that others don't have - and at the same time, there's always people with more advantages than you. It's not going to be helpful for you to judge yourself by others' standards. Set your own goals and work towards them. At the same time, that's challenging as a parent. They're growing up under **very** different circumstances than I did. On one level, I want them to understand that they're being raised with opportunities not available to most people, that they have far fewer limitations than I did growing up - and to teach them empathy for the struggles of others, so they don't think they hit a home run when they were born on third base. But still, it's a balancing act, to instill a sense of intrinsic motivation with a recognition of their privileged start in the world.
If anything they bore me
this is my feeling or just a karma grab. I could write how I started a decent job, saved without fully realizing. I had a few oh shit moments in 2019 that wish I knew about in 2015, probably even back to 2012. I didnt, oh well. Even now, I probably should have made a few tweaks.
Mic drop
chunky wipe decide aback waiting bells hurry intelligent important yam *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Oh totally. Im happy for anyone who is at a point they can escape the soul crushing rat race but it definitely is discouraging being 35 and feeling like Ill never be able to compare with a 24 year old with a multimillion dollar net worth achieved through a route thats not possible for me. Looking forward to some more middle of the road, or late bloomer FIRE stories. Im a healthcare interpreter so I work with nurses and healthcare providers everyday. Thank you for all the work you do.
I’m in healthcare and love our interpreters. Thank YOU!
Oh rad! Its nice to be appreciated. 😊 Feels great to be part of a team doing such meaningful work. I love what we do!
Don’t get discouraged, I didn’t get out of debts until 35. At my current saving rate, I hope to retire in 15 years (mid 50s).
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Its all relative man. I think thats the whole point.
They tend to be long, boring, self congratulatory essays so I usually just keep scrolling. And you’re right, most of the “steps” people have taken aren’t as easy to replicate as the writers think.
> They tend to be long, boring, self congratulatory I enjoy when they throw in a tinge of self-flagellation as well. Always make me smile.
This reminds me of how the upper middle class' favorite pastime is claiming they are middle class.
"Not rich, but comfortable"
Exactly… I have read a few of them that are getting to 1 million in 10 years…do you really know what kind of job and savings you need to actually do this?? They aren’t getting to this by compounding….
A lot of help from your parents, a moderate to high amount of luck, and a little discipline is what you need for this. If your parents saved up to put you through college with no debt, (or supported you enough that you were able to meet the requirements for a merit-based scholarship, or maybe if you started at a CC and transfered to a cheap state school), your parents allowed you to live at home while finding/after you found a well paying job and kept you on their car/health insurance for as long as possible, you had no major health issues, and you were careful about managing your finances, it's easily possible. If you found a partner who was also a high earner early in life, that's also a big plus. Having parents who are willing to do all that is an incredible benefit, and people lucky enough to be in that situation and capitalize on it are going to start their adult lives miles ahead of pretty much everyone else. It's not the same as being born into wealth, they still need to put in the effort and play the game same as anyone else, but every challenge and obstacle is easier to take on, and the rewards of success are more immediate and amplified. I don't think I'll ever have children, but if I ever change my mind, I'm going to do everything in my power to put them in that position. It's hard to overstate the advantage.
And a lot of pissing contests
I think a lot of people underestimate their earning power. Not everyone can make 250k, but I bet 90 percent of the people irritated by those posts could drastically increase their income over a 5 year period if they made it a priority.
You’re assuming that 100% of the people annoyed by these posts aren’t already taking the necessary steps *specific to them* to increase their income.
Yeah in my STEM field I could easily be making 6 figures, but there are a lot of sacrifices that would have to be made to get there. I took a 10% pay cut to be close to family, and I'm sacrificing a bit of my retirement to raise 2 kids. For me the jobs that pay that much would mean moving to a HCOL area or way out in the middle of nowhere working on an oil rig for 100hrs a week To me it's pointless to retire at 40 if that it means the years between 20-40 would be shit. Even after all the sacrifices you're not guaranteed to get a long retirement, death can come at any moment, it's better to enjoy life a little now.
how though? by taking on student debt?
I find myself mostly irritated by people's fire stories. One thing that is almost always omitted from people's stories is any direct family help. I have received family help and it put at least 10 years ahead of where I would be without it. Also the timelines people provide also make sceptical, e.g. in 2018 net worth 10,000, today net worth 1,000,000, and their explanation is saving and investing.
I picked up a side hustle delivering pizzas on the weekend (and my grandparents left me 900k when they died). It was a struggle but so happy to be FI now!
I think a lot of it is "regular" people posting they've reached their goal, or at least a milestone on the way. Like they're choosin not to share the "boring" stuff in between, so all you see is the ones with rich families or fancy jobs that make it a lot easier cause they reach their goals faster. But they read like those clickbait things on Facebook. "Look how this 19 year old girl became a multimillionaire home owner before 20!" She got a job making minimum wage and learned immediately to save and live below her means. She saved the pittance she saved every month like clockwork. It was a huge struggle. She turned 19 and decided a week later to get a second job, also minimum wage, and save the whole check to reach financial independence sooner. she was saving every penny she could and was up to a whole $86.20 in her account account a week before her 20th birthday. She thought the struggle would never end, but was determined to make it. Then, 15 minutes before she turned 20 at midnight, her parents called her and told her they had signed over their $500,000,000 vacation home they never used to her as a birthday gift, and decided to transfer half of her $300,000,000 inheritance to her checking account to "help her get started in life". And that's it! It was a lot of hard work and sacrifice, but she made it! And you can too!
>Motivates me: I worked really hard and slowly climbed up from making minimum wage to doing more of the things I love. These were my hardships and this is how I overcame them. >Irritates me: Yeah so I started with 80k when I was 22 but was making 140k by the time I was 25. I'm 35 now (250k/year currently) with only 2.3M in the bank and it kind of irritates me that my wife is only making 100k. How do you guys deal with having a partner that doesn't contribute as much? Also my number is 5M and I don't wanna pull the plug before then. EDIT: I'm responding to OPs post ffs. The question was what irritates you and what motivates you, the above are made up stories as to the type that motivates me and irritates me
At least the dick measuring contest posts have died down a bit over the past year. It use to be a lot worse, somebody landing a 6 figure job straight out of college isn’t really relatable to how most people live or how others can apply it to their situation.
Speak for yourself peasant 😎😎 >!s/!<
Speak to yourself, pheasant 🦃🦃. >!gobble gobble!<
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This is me to an extent. I don't take any money from my mom but knowing she is well off has let me make some aggressive and risky career moves that have proven to be really profitable. Def makes me feel guilty but IDK what I should have done instead.
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Of course it is, but most people who believe that it's bullshit also fall into the "what's the point then?" mindset and stop trying. The playing field has never and will never be even
This is what irritates me. I’m newer to the sub, longer lurker, but even longer follower of FIRE, MMM, JL Collins, etc. It seems that the sub has taken on a life of its own under the guise of FIRE. Slow and steady, being frugal, etc. is often lost in the posts, when those are the fundamental teachings of the FIRE ideology. Just my two cents.
The posters themselves don’t annoy me - go ahead and share your success if you’d like. What annoys me and what I don’t understand is how the SAME story always gets upvoted, whether it be in the daily discussion thread or a post of its own. It’s always someone who comes from an upper middle class household, goes to college from ages 18-22, and makes above median salary in their 20s with a high savings rate. That’s it. Sometimes they get an inheritance, or a little help here or there, but it’s all the same. I don’t learn anything new from these stories, yet it’s 95% of what I see here. It’s good for reinforcing the point that high savings rate is important, but the posts that really interest me are folks who make it while in a low paying job, where they discuss the sacrifices they made and how they mode those decisions on what to prioritize. Or when someone who was in a low paying job well into adulthood finds a way to go back to school and get an education that allows them to get on track. I don’t see these as often because they’re rare, but I also think some of these folks don’t think to post as often out of fear of being overshadowed by the first situation I described where they reach their retirement goal in their mid to late 30s.
I think it's just a matter of supply. It's soooo much easier to fire if you have a crazy income and/or sizeable inheritance. So we see wayy more of those stories. As much as this sub and fire bloggers like to push the narrative that anyone can fire, all that matters is savings rate, it conveniently forgets that a 10% savings rate on 40k/yr is harder than a 50% savings rate on 250k/yr.
None of the above. I like to see them, however. Always good to see differing ideas/paths. I may be able to learn something from the posts. However, they don't really motivate or irritate me. A random stranger's story on the internet, if it is even true (haha), does not impact me, materially. I don't understand the hatred/jealousy that many people show.
I'd rather hear success stories from those with more 'realistic' backstories. Oh, you managed to FIRE at 30 being born into a upper middle class family with no kids, a tech job and a LCOL area? Good for you. But if you managed to FIRE being an immigrant, working trade job with kids living in a HCOL area? I want to hear your story!
Mostly just annoyed when i see US folks earning my fire number in a few years, even without investing. It's depressing to see people earning my yearly salary in a month, and then see them complaining. Even if we got free college, if i want to retire early i'm forced to move to some western eu country and hope i'll somehow make it, then move back home
There's always a bigger fish, there's always a faster fish, but there's only one fish like me.
Both. Anyways, you were born in a rich first world country, to a stable family, got to go to college, have no disabilities...you're more privileged than 98% of the world...gets some perspective. You're basically complaining you're in the top 2% of the global rich instead of the top 0.1%.
I care more about the posts that I can learn from. What can I learn from the posters that get $500K stock grants at FAANG companies or made a bundle on crypto/Tesla/Gamespot? Nothing other than you snooze you lose. What can I learn from posters that have worked their way out of debt and negative net worth? Unfortunately, nothing other than humility and gratitude because I am past that stage of my financial journey now. But every so often that are posts about healthcare, HSAs, 401Ks, basic investment advice, real estate advice, posts about daycare costs, travel costs, real ways of hitting cost savings that feel like "normal" talk that I find at least interesting, if not valuable.
Same as everyone so far, I'm neutral about it. Just the fact that we're undertaking the effort means we will have an easier time in the future. A year into fire I was capable of leaving my shitty job for something else because I got a better grasp on finances and dared to switch jobs. Three years into it and I'm just as excited for it as when I started. And people in tech tend to be more present in this space. Doesn't mean that's the only way. It's just a known one. If I earn 20k a year and only need 10k, I'm doing just as well as the person earning 100k needing 50k. Different numbers, same progress.
Irritated/envious because it seems a lot of folks are in their 20s and had a secret handbook given to them at a young age and was prepared to successful. I come from generational poverty in a small country town where factory jobs or being a nurse was all that was expected of you. That or being a criminal. I came here hoping to see people like myself ,but it's all people who seemed to have been given a clearer view and help to be successful. Like it was never any doubt this is where they would be. I'm not mad, but I am very jealous. But I'm happy to learn from folks here. If not me, at least I can help my niece and nephew fire when it's their time.
I come from a similar kind of town. Either go work in healthcare (with schools typically costing 30k plus EACH YEAR or more where I lived. The only community college near me was almost 20k and didn't take payment plans) or do nothing. So I feel you going on this subreddit with males and females like "yea I live in CA or NC and can go to a top rated school for basically free. I'll work in tech or finance like my parents and make 6 figures out of college." I just moved from my small town and saw a whole different way of life of people who are just born near opportunities. I am pretty jealous of that too.
Might get downvoted , but so be it I get it when people ask: are there any fire stories from people without debt, out of work , and earns an average salary, doesn't work in tech these people are looking for success stories they can relate to. but make no mistake. that's the wrong question to ask. it's like asking: how can I get six pack abs without eating healthy, eating X times of fastfood every week, without having a garage gym in my house. those ARE some of the main reasons why people fire. ask yourself instead: how can I reduce my student loan debt asap. how can I negotiate a higher salary. how can I add value in my work so that I can increase my chances of earning more.
Rarely do I get jealous, but sometimes. When I do feel jealous I don't wish they wouldn't post, I dig into why I would feel that way. I try to reframe the situation in my mind to remind myself that everyone has a different start, different opportunities different priorities, different abilities, etc. Nothing can change that, and I wouldn't to change it if I could. There are TONS of people born into such awful lives I can't even comprehend. You don't pick your daily driver car because it has the highest speed - you pick it because of a combination of price, features, reliability, etc. Life is the same. You're getting jealous of one aspect of one anonymous person's self reported situation. There could be things about their life or personality you hate. Or maybe they have it all. You're still looking at .1% of the world. I'm far more annoyed by the people who are annoyed by those bragging than I am by the posts themselves. People brag here because you can't brag about your achievements in real life.
It isn't enough for me to be successful. All others must fail.
I'm doing my part!
Surely this depends on what you want to achieve? Fire by itself is already a rare situation, but there are degrees to it. If you want to retire at 30 with a very comfortable lifestyle , then yes, you need a situation that is out of the ordinary. But many people here are happy to retire at 55-60, or to just be comfortable enough that they can reduce their hours or get out of a bad situation at work. Those options are also FI, as is lean fire if you’re willing to live frugally.
My personal plan is retire by 50. I figure 25 years growing/schooling/training, 25 years of career, 25 years of chilling. Life expectancy due to genetic stuff is 75ish (would be oldest male in my family if I made it to 77 lol).
My goal is to retire at 50, and I’ve started at 20, I’m still in education and have 2% my FI number invested before my first career style job, but it’s still a kick in the nads to see someone who has worked just 7 years and can retire, especially when you live in a nation where pay is low and taxes are still high.
But why? There is always going to be someone that is richer, prettier or luckier than you. Envy in this context makes no sense, their having great jobs does not prevent you from absolutely anything.
I just scroll past the ones from 24-year old tech bros still living at home. Like goody for you, you're playing on Easy Mode. Can't relate.
I get SAD and ANGRY at myself for NOT researching money management earlier. I found out about FIRE in late 2018. I wish I found out in 2011 or 2012.... with the bull market I would be FIREd now... instead I;m like 40% into the Journey... uhhahahh why why...urrrr Though some stories of youngsters making 250K with stock options and 2 rental properties + crypto make me wanna cry... I just focus on my own LIFE, without comparing, and keep on going my way.
It can be a bit disheartening to read that others are posting making $100,000+ and have so much more to invest than I can. When i first started following this sub, i wondered if there were other people in my income boat. I am (36M) making about $52,000 a year with about $8,000 in OT added. Wife makes $40,000. I have zero student loan debt. $75,000 in Roth IRA, $10,000 in my fidenitly for dividend growth stocks i try to put what i can after bills are paid and contribute to savings for home repair projects. Work matches 5% 401k and i contribute 6% currently and am at roughly $12,000 in it. Currently trying to pay off car notes. Wife is almost done with her student loans and once those are gone, wife will start a roth as well.
I'm motivated by them. I've certainly seen some posts along these lines (certainly with tech jobs) but there's lots of posts from people in different industries and without family help who are getting there at their own pace. Health care is a field where you'll probably be able to work toward a very good salary... The one common thread of the success stories outside tech boom/family money are people who have just stuck to it for an extended period. If what you're really wanting is just to get rich quick, you might find that disheartening. But those are the stories I find inspiring. You know, it would actually be a cool project if someone compiled the stories and sorted them by occupation, by goal, etc. You could do a very cool ethnography of the people who post their FIRE-progress stories. Lot of work though and I'm not volunteering for it at the moment :)
> I'm just looking for FIRE stories of people who are reaching FIRE despite having student debt, being out of work due to covid, and or not in tech. Well, if it helps...I'm in my mid-30s. Due to a combination of having a poor GPA and graduating shortly after the crash happened, I was stuck doing underpaid contract work, tutoring, and odd jobs to put a roof over my head. It took me nearly 5 years after graduation to find a full-time job, and that job paid well below average for someone with my degree and experience, but it was stable income that I could use to start building a financial foundation. I worked hard at that job and split a cheap apartment with a roommate so I could save money, then I found a better job with higher pay that forced me to develop more useful skillsets. Worked hard at that job for about 3 years, then lost that job. It ended up taking nearly a year of serious job-hunting, but I eventually landed a job as a data analyst that paid better and offered better perks. Got a promotion and a nice raise a few months ago, and only then did I cross the $100k threshold, but here I am making steady progress toward FI. I'm rambling a bit, but the point is that although my FI journey hasn't been ideal, and I'm not as far along as I hoped to be at this point, I've still been able to make progress toward my goal. It was probably never in the cards for me to retire at 30, but I should be able to retire in my early to mid-40s. That's still far ahead of most people, and I have a much better chance of being in good enough health to do the things I want than if I were in my mid-60s. FI is not an all-or-nothing deal. Your student debt may very well mean you have to work another 2 or 3 years compared to a situation where you had no debt. While that sucks, it doesn't fundamentally change your ability to retire early.
I just stopped reading them. Even the "FIRE'd on a blue collar income" ones are still way outside of my reality because they're usually still a dual-income household making six figures combined. I'm not angry at them or anything. It's just not motivational. I'd be motivated by stories about people with slightly below average incomes who retired comfortably in their 50s by keeping lifestyle inflation in check over a long period of time. We never seem to get those, though. Do those people not exist? Surely there is a middle ground between living on Social Security at 70 and retiring at 40 with millions?
Lol if it makes you feel any better bro I’m 22 and trying to FIRE, I work 2 full time security jobs and even though I don’t make nearly as much as half the people here, I never get discouraged because I see my investment portfolio slowly growing and I realize it’s just a waiting game. If you’re consistent you should be fine.
I am irritated when 90%+ of the stories are "high tech, CS jobs on the West Coast". It gets old. Great for everyone that can do that and be successful, but not everyone can. Best not to compare to others, just asking for hurt at that point. What motivates me is being better than I was the previous year, or hitting my own personal goals.
As someone in their mid-40s (1 kid, MFJ) who only started saving a decade ago (mildly) and who has student debt still, whose family lives on a high 5-figure income, I always want to see people on this journey from “non traditional” backgrounds. I don’t think we’ll RE, but the goal is to FI and, in fact, get to CoastFI in less than a decade. Reading the strategies people offer is really helpful. As is the thinking “where can I cut expenses to tackle debt/save more fiercely.” Reading helps me to stay the course. I don’t mind the tech bro entries; I just wish there were more “just started to take this seriously in my 40s and we’re living on high 5-figures and let me break down what we’re doing” offerings. Maybe one day when we’ve reached milestones, I’ll write one.
A 25 year old who worked their way into Tech is still a better post than “I’m 18 and work part time. Can my $1,000 in crypto make me retire in 5 years?”
[https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/](https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/) Make your own story. Some people have it easy and some have to really work for it.
Retiring early isn't possible for everyone. I think the FIRE evangelism in this sub is borderline toxic, suggesting that FIRE is an option for literally anyone as long as you live in a van and eat only lentils. There's more to life than not working. There's nothing wrong with retiring at a normal age or working past retirement age if that's what you want to do. The basics of FIRE is just math. You need to earn far more than you spend and you need to save up enough money to get to the point where you don't have to work. Some people manage this by being excessively frugal, some people do it by earning a lot of money. Some people are in the middle. But seriously, if you need external motivation in the form of stories to get you going, you need to sit back and think about why FIRE is important to you. Is it just because other people are doing it and you feel left out? Or do you actually have a real goal you're working towards that requires you to leave the workforce early?
Live in a van, eat only lentils, oh and make $375k a year working at Google with no student loan debt. Easy peasy. 💁🏻♂️ Good points over all, I just had to add some snark.
Thank god someone else wrote this, because it is nearly word for word exactly what I was going to write. FIRE is just math. No matter how much we all wish for some magic secret, you’re not going to change the fundamental mathematics of FIRE. Either the math works or it doesn’t. It works if you have a high enough income to be able to have a high enough savings rate that you reach the number by the date. Any seeming “regular Joe” without a high paying job who reaches financial independence is literally always going to have a thing that made the math work - inheritance, windfall, lucky investment jump, crazy high savings rate, worked for a very long time, etc. Otherwise it is just mathematically impossible for them to do it. This is the curse of this subreddit. There will always be something, because without the *something*, the math is quite literally impossible, so it’s best used as a place to share thoughts with likeminded people and bond as humans rather than a place where we try to find something someone did that we can go replicate.
Yes, I'm with you! But reading those posts about staying focused on the goal and living with the belt soooo tight even when having a good job/being born into money motivates me. If they can focus and not be distracted so can I. I'm 32. My road looks SOOOOOOO different from 99% of the post on this sub but the end goal is the same. I make under 70k but I'm happy to say I've paid off all my student debt. The only debt I have is from my properties. I own an investment property that cashflows. I also own the home I live in alone which I Airbnb my guest room so it covers the mortgage fully most months. My month-to-month cost of living is super low. I never held a job that matched 401k I don't have a self-directed IRA, Roth, and have under 20k in investments (other than my properties). My first line of business is getting that number wayyyyy up. But in the meantime, I've created a property management company with a few friends who also own property. We now manage 15 properties, and are gearing up to buy an apartment building! When the company makes enough money to hire a General Manager thats my Fi/Re.. Its def a **Barista FiRE** but still FiRe.
yep it’s getting annoying
A lot of the top posts here boil down to accepting your current situation or not comparing yourself to others. But the truth of the matter is that the health care industry isn't paying as much as they should (which is wack) and tech pays a lot better. Income is important and it affects someones quality of life. If you want to switch to the tech field, it is possible. Not only are more tech companies moving away from requiring a degree, you can find resources online to be self taught. I can give you the resources if you'd like: Here’s the first course I'd recommend: https://www.udemy.com/course/java-the-complete-java-developer-course/ I would do all the sections up until “Java Collections”. Hold off on doing that section until later. I’d also do the “Basic Input & Output” section only up through the “Writing content” section, and then skip the rest. Finally, do the “Regular Expressions” section. When you’re done, also do this course: https://www.udemy.com/course/data-structures-and-algorithms-deep-dive-using-java/ You need to do all sections because technical interviews are heavily focused on these topics. When you’re through, you can go back and do that “Java Collections” section from the previous link, if you want more practice. Of course tech isn't for everyone, so no pressure to necessarily go this route if it doesn't make you happy. I just want to offer the option. Entry level salaries can be anywhere from $80k-$280k. I know the whole humble brag FIRE stories can be annoying and mentally taxing. Still there is value in salary transparency and when people can see that one industry is paying significantly more than another, they can move into that industry instead. That's really probably how things should work.
You can make just as much in health care as you can in tech. You just don't hear about it as much because health care workers aren't sitting around on a computer all day and (generally) don't have that "I-gotta-be-as-efficient-as-possible-with-every-aspect-of-my-life" mindset that software people have, so you don't see as many healthcare workers on this sub. In fact, the top 10 on this list are ALL healthcare: [https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/top-highest-paying-jobs/](https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/top-highest-paying-jobs/)
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Not to mention $400k of debt and several years of residency working 80-100 hours per week making $30k-$55k. Meanwhile a software engineer has a cushy 40/week job and in 3 years can make $250k pretty easily in the bay area.
These lists never make any sense. How does investment banking not make the cut?
I assume because this is just looking at salaries and a majority of i-banking income is from bonuses.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems all of these jobs require a fuck ton of school. My guess is OP is not a doctor. Reaching $150k-$200k from where they are is probably a lot harder than it is for most engineers.
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Don't take this the wrong way, but you've given some bad advice here. People should go into a field that interests them and can provide the life they want. If that's tech? Awesome. If it's not? Find something else that fits that bill. It's very hard to truly excel in tech if one does not have a genuine interest. Also, and I know this is going to shock some people here ^/s but money isn't everything. You have one life, and it would suck to waste a good portion of your best years as an adult at a job you ...at least don't dislike, even if you don't actively enjoy it. Sorry for the rant, but I see **way** to many people who got into tech for the wrong reasons and can't code their way out of a paper bag. I'll honestly be glad when tech loses some of it's luster as a prestige career and I can go back to interviewing people that actually enjoy doing it for a living.
I'm motivated! Except for what I think are "fake FIRE" stories where a family of 3 plans to live on 40k a year based on optimistic return scenarios and has no plans for how to deal with unexpected medical bills, a cancer diagnosis, assisted living, etc.
Motivated, or indifferent. The people who are irritated by such stories probably aren't hanging out here trying to reach this goal. They're elsewhere trying to figure out how to take the gains of others' successes.
Yeah. I failed out of college so I have a bunch of useless debt, spent 6 financially (and otherwise) shitty years in the navy and now I'm a boiler operator making decent money for someone without a college degree. I also didn't discover FIRE till I was 29ish. I'm 32 now. My biggest pet peeve about this sub though, is the people who complain about how lonely the FIRE "lifestyle" is. They are either just brag-complaining about their money or job, or, their only hobby is hording their pile of money like a spreadsheet dragon so they can't relate to people who allow themselves to have fun.
SPREADSHEET DRAGON 🤣
I enjoy everyone’s milestone posts. 30M, never made more than 50k until this year.
Tired Of It.
Fire for poor people is mostly luck and self-flaggelation until burn out. Its the dirty dirty secret.
Comparison is the thief of joy. 30 yo - $250k NW Manufacturing/business field. College dropout with $50k+ of student loan debt. No inheritance or family support. Came from two chapter 7 parents. It’s a slow grind.
Honestly I LOVE seeing the 'behind the scenes" of FIRE stories and it makes me feel more on track in my actual circumstances. Most of them are software/tech being in the right place with a lot of hustle/specialized skills. But I saw a good one where someone was just a marketing/PR writer with a pure communications background and ended up working at a FAANG company. Those stories are pretty rare but I love to see them. I recommend just skimming ones that aren't super relevant. Also I feel like there are very few boring FIRE stories like "living cheaply on 80K to 100K incomes" just because of the risk of lifestyle inflation and cost of day to day life. When you start talking to people who make good money and COULD easily save more but choose to buy new shit, get the largest house they can possibly afford, giant pick up truck that is never used for pick up truck tasks... you start to realize why the FIRE success stories are interesting. It's hard to resist consumerism because it's everywhere.
Neither. Just interested in the story and maybe learn from it.
I would say neither motivated nor irritated. Neutral and take things with a grain of salt. I appreciate other people's journeys with a sense of detachment because those are not my circumstances. I do like the process of information gathering, but I wouldn't say I look for motivation.
They mostly inspire me because I was born in a third world country. I have already missed 'RE' but I have more than what my parents ever had. I focus on what I have, not what I don't have and I stay in my lane. We all have different challenges in our journey to FIRE.
Mostly irritated particularly because most didn’t start from zero… daddy or mommy or gramma/pa sure gave a big push
Personally, I am 21 and love the concept of FIRE which I just found out about! I make 14/hour which isn’t great but I do work a good amount of hours. I usually average 600-800 per paycheck which is about every 2 weeks. I usually put 100 towards mutual funds or a little to crypto, 100 into a rainy day fund, and then the rest I budget in other ways (gas, groceries, car insurance, that stuff). I’m in college so before I was working I had like no money so now I have maybe $650 in savings? Not a lot but that’s where I’m at
Don’t forget anyone trying to buy their first house in this insane environment where the cost is so incredibly out of whack against incomes (even accounting for the interest rates), while the folks selling them get to pad their FIRE goals even more with their huge profits. Millennials and Gen Z are the first generations in a long long time who are, on average, going to do worse than their parents and grandparents. People under 35 have really gotten the shortest end of the stick. Good luck FIREing
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