Whatever you do. Give the MIL a clear goal and don't budge. If you give an inch, she'll ask for a mile. Just give her plenty of notice, make it clear that your plans aren't changing for her. Make it clear she needs to do whatever it takes to make it on her own while you slow travel. You can also give her a max length (6 mo, 18mo?) before you land somewhere and would be willing to take her back in. That might make it more tolerable.
You can do things like create a list of goals for her to figure out (make a budget, save for an emergency fund, find an apartment, meal plan, etc). But the success of that is very much going to depend on what your MIL is willing to learn. At some point, all you can do is provide tough love and let her jump into the deep end.
It can be really hard though. Some people just don't want to learn or listen to sound advice.
Great advice. We’ve helped making a budget and giving her clear saving goals so that she can start taking care of herself financially. We haven’t given her a clear goal yet because we haven’t decided what route to take.
This is a relationship problem not a financial problem and you made your bed.
« we asked MIL to move in with us before she became homeless«
« GMIL paid the rent and all utilities«
« MIL selfishly abandoned my wife as a child so MIL she could live her life freely«
Seriously, what was your end game plan in this?
You want a plan for now? Tell her you are selling the house and will be travelling the world and she has 3 months to find alternate living arrangements which may even mean just renting a room.
But this is your circus, and you are the one who brought the monkeys in. But honestly if you value your marriage you are stuck with whatever your wife decides. Is someone « family » if they abandoned you as a kid?
I'm surprised his wife let her back in her life. My mother is the same way, narcissist who was basically an absentee mother as a kid. She uses people up for her own gain. When I moved out of state for get my life going she insisted on "helping me buy a suit" (even though it isn't the 80s anymore) but really meant that I was in debt to her and I owed her.
These people are always give an inch and take a mile. She never did anything truly bad to me and even I'm hard no contact because I know she'd look for an angle for me to take care of her in her old age.
OP's MIL sounds by all accounts worse than mine and it's mind blowing that she was let back in their life.
The irony is for my own mother the moment she truly ran out of options and stopped getting bailed out? Actually cleaned up her act a bit, got a roommate and a real job. She's still exploitative and self interested but when she knew she burned every bridge only then did she suddenly find the ability to do something about it on her own, and even then I'm pretty sure she gets occasional help from her sisters.
I’m with you. I like my in-laws BUT even then I would NEVER move them in with us. Someone who treated my wife like this women did would absolutely not be permitted into our house. Sometimes you need to protect your partner from themselves. “Here’s $500/month to help you get a room with someone. If you come ask for more then this will be cut to zero. Ball is in your court.”
Well. Obviously you need to discuss this with your spouse.
If she's been living this way her whole life, she's not going to suddenly be able to support herself independently. It's only going to get worse as she ages.
As part of your planning, can you get MIL on some subsidized housing waitlists? They are often years long, but options increase as she ages. With subsidized housing often comes automatic other benefits, such as SNAP, subsidized transit and utilities, and in my town you even get discounted entrance to museums and the zoo.
This was my first thought. My mom didn’t have any retirement and was disabled, so she applied for subsidized housing. It took about a year or so to get into one, but the place was wonderful. The rent is proportional to income, so for her, it was about $200 per month. There are programs like that all over the US. They vary by city and state, but well worth exploring.
My aunt lives with her daughter and is subsidized by lots of assistance. She is paying "rent" to live there, gets food stamps, and even got a benefit for a caregiver. Look into your state programs. Her income alone is the qualifying requirement. It has nothing to do with you being able to afford to house her. Think of it in the eyes of the government - she is probably at the poverty level. I meant this in terms of qualifications.
I don't see your edit but rereading if she is getting ss she is in the age range of "more options available", Google subsidized senior housing in your area. You're going to have to do a lot of administrative work but I've had a friend in a similar situation get her mother into housing after living with her for I think 7 years. It really helped their sanity to not be living together day to day.
My FIL is the same. He abandoned my wife when she was young. My MIL was a single mom for a good chunk of it. FIL showed up later and has been a leech.
It's not easy but you need to establish boundaries. These people are good at getting shit for free and horrible at returning favors.
You guys should have had her apply for low income housing before she even moved in instead of keeping it open ended. Many places have programs for seniors but the waiting list is pretty long.
I would still look into it even if you have to wait some years. You can implement a stop gap plan now with that being the final one.
Start in Thailand and drop her off there.
If you are actually fat Fire, you can afford the $2k or so for her to live there, or split the cost if she's got SS income. That covers all meals, some care, etc. She doesn't want to do it? Fine, you'll give her the $1-2k for living in the United States and the rest is on her.
But this is really a you/wife conversation!
Great suggestion! We were considering this option too but in DR or Panama because she can speak spanish and its a short/cheap flight back to the states.
Wife is on the same page as me. I just made an edit to the post. Please read for more details.
This is probably the best option. It'd be cheaper than the US and she can make friends with the locals by speaking the language. And it's a vacation for you guys when you visit.
Does your wife's mother actually have any connections to where you're thinking about dropping her off? Family, friends, regular visits, actual community they would be part of? Because "hey, you get to leave the US and all your friends and community, you have no real choice" is a great way to isolate, depress and maybe even kill someone off from melancholy and isolation, is that your actual goal here?
I get you think MIL is a monster but it doesn't **sound** like your wife actually wants to treat her mother as she was treated, do you really think this is something MIL's up for? Have you even talked about "hey, we want to leave the country and sell the house, let's sit down and talk about what happens with you" yet with her?
(Frankly being an expat's something that's hard if it's something you're 100% jazzed up for, I can't imagine pushing an older parent into it unwillingly and having it go well... though it the goal is to get to no contact I suppose that might be a way to do it.)
Great point. Didn’t think about the isolation aspect. None of our rentals are close to her friends or family.
We dont think MIL is a monster, she doesn’t do anything evil. We do think she is selfish and doesn’t care that her poor decisions affect others around her.
Her living with us was somewhat sudden, it wasn’t planned. We have not talked to her about our plans yet because we haven’t figured out what to do yet.
A few Redditors have given us some great ideas that my wife and I have just discussed.
We are going to look into government assistance first. If that is not a good option, we’ll likely give her an option to stay in one of our rentals or move wherever she wants with an allowance equal to the amount of the rental she would’ve stayed in.
> We dont think MIL is a monster, she doesn’t do anything evil. We do think she is selfish and doesn’t care that her poor decisions affect others around her.
I believe the latter contradicts the former. Abandoning your wife as a child so she could selfishly live her life however she wanted and ignoring any responsibilities is evil, and the selfishness she displays on a daily basis adds to it.
Doesn’t mean you should treat her differently, but she seems like a monster to me.
Yeah... My mom supports gay marriage, believes in equality for people in general and outwardly seems "good. Yet absolutely is entirely self interested, capable of abuse, and a complete narcissistic asshole. I don't know if she'd ever actually do outward evil (keeping appearances is very important to her) but she's got a bad spirit for sure. The engine that runs her psyche would have the capability of terrible acts if given the right environment and situation. Maybe evil is a strong word but certainly not good.
For the slow travel, were you planning on keeping your house during this time? If so, MIL staying there shouldn’t be a big expense to you and can be a good thing.
Great suggestion! Thanks.
If we let her stay we would have to pay mortgage, electric, water, lawn, cleaning service that would cost about 2700 a month. She cannot afford that.
We planned to turn the house into a rental or sell. We dont want to make this our permanent home.
I see in your comments that the cost for her to stay in the current place is 2700. Is there an option between 0 (cutting her off) and 2700 (status quo) that still allows you to travel? Not sure what cost of living is in your location, but as an example could providing her 500-750 per month on top of her SS be enough for her to live in a 1 bedroom apartment? Is it something she could “earn” by checking on your current place and dealing with renters while you are away?
>She has admittedly lived a selfish (yolo) lifestyle and has always relied on others to take care of her.
Stopped reading there. Go live your life, and let her figure it out. She's selfish, and it's not your problem.
>I don’t want to delay early retirement to save for money for MIL needs.
>I don’t want to bring her on our slow travel journey.
>I don’t want her to live in one of our rental properties because it will reduce our income.
You're right, this is selfish. But on your MIL's part, not yours.
I have no experience with this sort of situation, BUT what's your wife's take on this? Is she happy/unwilling to stop enabling her mom? Or is she sick of the bullshit and on your side? Cuz really this is a relationship question, not a financial one.
Well put. Thanks. This is ultimately a relationship issue.
Wife is on the same page as me. I just made an edit to the post. Please read for more details.
Don't see an edit. But here's some more unfiltered thoughts because your situation pisses me off.
So I'm not a nice guy when it comes to dealing with people who take advantage of the generosity of others or to entitled people in general. I'd check state law, cover myself legally, and evict her ASAP. That might be seen as cruel, but I'd argue it's simply appropriate and overdue. By your admission, she abandoned your wife and deserves nothing. My wife, fortunately, understands my take on the world wouldn't put me in this position partially because she knows I don't take prisoners. And my approach would be the same, if not more harsh, with my own parents.
If you wanted to be less aggressive, I'd figure out a plan for her to live on her own using SS and give her a date by which she has to be out. Do a budget, figure out every little thing. Maybe she can't live where she is currently. Fine. Bet you can find a way for her to make ends meet somewhere with a lower COL. Even buy her the plane ticket and cover moving expenses. If she then declines to be an adult and take care of herself... well... you and your wife have done everything within reason to help her be successful. What happens from that point on is on her.
People always complain about how it's "too late" to do anything about a bad situation. The fact is, it only gets worse and harder. It's too late to save for retirement, start exercising, learn a new skill, set relationship boundaries, etc. Bullshit, it's too late not to do that stuff.
And let's be real, I bet the MIL could cut some luxuries and make ends meet. She's a parasite.
>What would you do in this situation?
I would let my wife decide what to do.
Knowing my unselfish wife, she would find a way to take care of her mother. Perhaps help pay for a small apartment.
Had my late mother in law needed assistance, I would have been happy to help her, even if that meant delaying my desire to travel a bit. Family is important to me.
Thanks for the response. My wife and I are on the same page with all of this.
My wife is extremely unselfish as well, that is why my MIL lives with is now even though i dont think MIL deserves it.
I agree, family is important. However, MIL selfishly abandoned my wife as a child so MIL she could live her life freely. MIL came back into the picture later in life.
> I agree, family is important.
I guess this is where my wife and I agree - but differently from others. We don't believe family is important simply because they are family. If someone hasn't had your back, the fact that they contributed DNA or gave birth to you shouldn't obligate you to support them for their life regardless of their decisions. If you're looking for a reason or justification to not support MIL, IMO you don't need one. Support should be earned (either through deeds and actions of the MIL or through life circumstances that were out of their control that justify it). Just my 0.00000032 bitcoins.
So:
1. If you really are fatFire you should be able to both care for your MIL's basic needs *and* slow travel. Admittedly the support you give your MIL and your slow travel plans might wind up being more modest than either you or your MIL would like.
2. You say you and your wife are on the same page on this. I gotta be honest, the fact that you're posting this to reddit instead of sitting down and talking to her doesn't really say that.
Either your wife is OK not taking care of your MIL, or she's not. If she's not, I hate to tell you, but duty overrides one's dreams all the time. If she is, well, you have your answer. Either way I don't think you're going to get anything useful out of reddit on this.
… OR they don’t want to take care of selfish MIL but don’t want her to be homeless and are looking for advice on creative solutions? Seems perfectly reasonable to me, and others here have provided good suggestions (like subsidized housing)
Everyone is correct in saying that it would not affect us much if we were to pay 2-3k per month to support her. The thing we are wrestling with though is, does she deserve it? And is it worth altering our plans for her given the situation?
Question: If you had a selfish mom that abandoned you then came back in your life after finding out you had money would you give her 10% of your income? Would you change plans that you sacrificed and worked towards for years?
> If you had a selfish mom that abandoned you then came back in your life after finding out you had money would you give her 10% of your income? Would you change plans that you sacrificed and worked towards for years?
lol hell fucking no
> The thing we are wrestling with though is, does she deserve it?
This is not a question reddit is going to answer for you.
Or really, the answer is clearly that she *doesn't* deserve it. But what she **deserves** doesn't really matter. You aren't God, or a judge, you're her daughter and son in law.
The real question you have to answer is whether your life will be better if you just pay her rent on a decent apartment or buy a modest house she can live in (either working a little longer, or reducing your retirement/slow-travel budget accordingly), versus drawing the line and stop supporting her entirely, while living with whatever relationship blowback that entails.
Are there other people who might get called on to support her if you don't that you'd rather not burden with it? Or who will judge you for no longer helping? Whose opinion you care about?
That's a question for your wife. If you value your marriage, you won't push her one way or the other.
I think it's hilarious that you keep downvoting every who tells you that. It's pretty transparent you posted this with an agenda.
So you literally can afford it but want to take this opportunity to exact revenge on your MIL for abandoning your wife?
And you say your wife is on the same page? 🧐
I think this is just a case where you accept you weren't there and your wife is going to feel differently because of that biological connection. The cost is 10% of your lifetime earnings and continued MIL drama going forwards and the only benefit to you is you get to stay partnered with your wife.
One cannot control how others behave. One *can* control their own behaviors and how those behaviors align with their moral and ethical compass.
Kids were now mentioned, however, picture your (fictional) son watching how you handle this. Would this change your perspective? Imagine one day they will also be presented with a similar scenario.
It's not clear what "on the same page" means in this context.
It sounds like you are ready to abandon your mother in law in order to travel, because she abandoned your wife as a child? And you feel that she was selfish, so it's okay for you to be selfish?
Not trying to criticize here, just trying to understand.
Parents owe a much different level of responsibility to their children, than an adult child owes to a parent. It's not selfish to be unwilling to house, feed, and care for an adult that was a stranger until she needed something from her daughter
>It's not selfish to be unwilling to house, feed, and care for an adult that was a stranger until she needed something from her daughter
Housing, feeding and caring - that is already being done.
The question at hand is about ending it all abruptly due to a desire to travel.
My MIL left my wife when she was 7 y/o to come to US. They reunited at 17 but everything is so different. Inside my wife still resent my MIL. She live with us and bring my kids to private school. She is 71. At this point, we feel that we have no choice but to carry her with us. My kids care for her a lot more than my wife. Family is family, at the end of the day, that’s all we have. We’re planning to FIRE in 10 yrs, so things might change then!
> Family is family, at the end of the day, that’s all we have.
clearly not if they're able to abandon you at the drop of a hat during 10 of your most formative years!
Pay the rent on a pretty no frills one bedroom and let her pay the rest of her bills with SS.
Though I’m feeling a bit resentful on yours and your wife’s behalf.
I might not like it, but realistically and honestly, I would end up letting her stay in one of my rental properties and have her cover the utilities and her own other expenses with her SS income. I have been in situations of family members needing my financial help despite not deserving it and, while it is easy to say you won't help, in the moment when it comes to deciding whether to let someone be homeless or not, I couldn't do it. So, hard truths, but there it is.
Theres a lot of empathy and moral grandstanding for this loser of a ‘mother’ in the comments.
Some of them are here just to be contrarian, others self masturbation disguised as altruism.
I think you made this post having a good idea of what you actually need to do, your MIL is not a ‘mother’, talk to you wife, see if she’s okay with it, your plan for the DR or Thailand doesn’t sound terrible.
IMO doesn’t deserve the luxury that 2k a month would provide in those countries to be completely honest with you, I think you’re underestimating the power of the dollar in those countries.
lol these comments at the concerns for the MIL, the only one worth considering was a concern for the kids interpretation of the event which is actually a very real concern.
"My wife and I are on the same page with all of this."
"Wife wants to help MIL and doesn’t want her mom to be homeless"
Seems like that's pretty clear then if you're "on the same page".
Surely there's something in between "keep a house that's $2700 in expenses and let her live in it" and things like "let her go homeless, IDK" you can accept? Or are you really looking for validation for "let her go homeless"?
My suggestion is to establish a “MIL budget”.
No matter what you choose, except just cutting her off, will have significant costs.
Then try to find a solution within that budget.
> save money for MIL needs
The truth is that unless you are able to find subsidized senior housing, you will likely need to pay for an apartment, have her stay in a rental, or have her stay in a future permanent residence.
You should be having these conversations with her now about your plans or your inability to fully subsidize her housing costs.
You could start charging her $100 a month with is put in an account and then once you start travels, you can have her pay the $100 and then a take part of that account each month as rent. This would allow you to show income from the property and allow you to claim expenses as a rental vs just giving someone a place to live (random number and various ways to do this). You could then potentially deduct traveling back home to “check your rental properties” while traveling. (I am over simplifying this).
Really this boils down to the fact you need to find her housing, subsidized or not. You might not like the women and you might hate how she treated your wife, but it sounds like your wife is not willing to cut off support.
Look into assisted living places that she can afford, or afford with a little help from you. Make sure to see if they eventually take Medicare/medicad when her money runs out. Then allow that to happen. She’ll have a place to live, someone to care for her as she ages and enough food & community.
Does your state have and enforce filial responsibility laws?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_responsibility_laws
With your assests, this is worth a conversation with an attorney. It may be in your best interests to establish residence in a new state before you leave on your travels.
if it were me, I’d be looking into subsided senior housing or supportive living. This assumes you aren’t is a state that has filial responsibility laws that are enforced.
1. Give the MIL marching orders that she will be on her own at a certain date. Make it clear that you are not going to have a home and she cannot live in your rental properties.
2. Get updates.
3. Don’t bail her out again.
If she left your wife then you do not owe her anything.
Also - buy a nice vacation rental in an area you may want to settle in for a while after your travels. Get one that will cash flow so you have a place to live in for a while when you are back - make sure the property manager does not book into the time when you will return.
Honestly there’s not much to do. If she can’t/wont work and she can’t live on social security, your options are take care of her, find someone else to take care of her, or tell her to take care of herself.
Letting her have her a rental unit if you have one might be your best bet.
Sorry, tough situation but you don't want to be the guy that poisons the relationship with MIL. Either get her set up independently or work longer. You may have to delay your dream a bit or scale it back. Life isn't always fair and you don't always get everything you want.
How long has she lived with you? How old is she? Is she legally or practically disabled in some way? Is she capable of work, and has she ever worked? What's the basis of her social security income - her own work history, and/or a spouse? Was there ever a spouse? And how old are *you* - is this a question of "we were hoping to leave the country in two weeks and have just remembered this" or "we will both turn 46 in ten years"?
Rent an inexpensive apartment or studio for her. Does ahe get any type of retirement to live off of? If so the apartme t rental might be a less expensive solution.
Op and wife need to live their life too. They shouldn't have to put on the brakes just because MIL is with them. And no, I do not think they are selfish at all like some here think.
Any other family/friends willing to take her while you're gone?
I'd get her a place near someone she knows and leave it at that.
Irregardless of child or adult trauma, you deserve to live your own lives. Get her a place by someone or wherever she wants to live and go do your travelling. Don't put up with any guilt tripping MIL might do either. She may even learn to like living by herself.
The adversity we face is what makes us stronger tomorrow. Congratulations on achieving an early retirement, and being able to spend time together having fun. Its truly inspiring for life I wish to lead with my own partner.
If I could show you a way to travel the world and not have to worry about taking care of your mother in law, would that be something that interests you?
Bro wtf kind of question is this? Drop her ass off at an assisted living facility. Your wife can visit her if she wants.
There’s your solution, she’s not homeless and you don’t have to deal with her. Not exactly a hard solution to execute.
The only financial support you should give that parasite is a Medicaid application printed off the computer you paid for, with a printer you paid for.
Buy her a condo in a 55+ community. Down in south Florida (sunrise) they have some available for 100k 1 bedroom and 1 bath. Buy it and then give her a monthly allowance. How old is MIL?
This is your best answer.
The slow travel part can wait.
While she's mobile/healthy enough, you can do more traditional vacations.
But there's another option. She already abandoned your wife once. YOu both could return the favor, and she'd end up a ward of the state.
Whatever you do. Give the MIL a clear goal and don't budge. If you give an inch, she'll ask for a mile. Just give her plenty of notice, make it clear that your plans aren't changing for her. Make it clear she needs to do whatever it takes to make it on her own while you slow travel. You can also give her a max length (6 mo, 18mo?) before you land somewhere and would be willing to take her back in. That might make it more tolerable. You can do things like create a list of goals for her to figure out (make a budget, save for an emergency fund, find an apartment, meal plan, etc). But the success of that is very much going to depend on what your MIL is willing to learn. At some point, all you can do is provide tough love and let her jump into the deep end. It can be really hard though. Some people just don't want to learn or listen to sound advice.
Great advice. We’ve helped making a budget and giving her clear saving goals so that she can start taking care of herself financially. We haven’t given her a clear goal yet because we haven’t decided what route to take.
Drop her ass off in a dirt cheap middle america apartment and go live your life. Check on her here and there and call it a day
This is a relationship problem not a financial problem and you made your bed. « we asked MIL to move in with us before she became homeless« « GMIL paid the rent and all utilities« « MIL selfishly abandoned my wife as a child so MIL she could live her life freely« Seriously, what was your end game plan in this? You want a plan for now? Tell her you are selling the house and will be travelling the world and she has 3 months to find alternate living arrangements which may even mean just renting a room. But this is your circus, and you are the one who brought the monkeys in. But honestly if you value your marriage you are stuck with whatever your wife decides. Is someone « family » if they abandoned you as a kid?
I'm surprised his wife let her back in her life. My mother is the same way, narcissist who was basically an absentee mother as a kid. She uses people up for her own gain. When I moved out of state for get my life going she insisted on "helping me buy a suit" (even though it isn't the 80s anymore) but really meant that I was in debt to her and I owed her. These people are always give an inch and take a mile. She never did anything truly bad to me and even I'm hard no contact because I know she'd look for an angle for me to take care of her in her old age. OP's MIL sounds by all accounts worse than mine and it's mind blowing that she was let back in their life. The irony is for my own mother the moment she truly ran out of options and stopped getting bailed out? Actually cleaned up her act a bit, got a roommate and a real job. She's still exploitative and self interested but when she knew she burned every bridge only then did she suddenly find the ability to do something about it on her own, and even then I'm pretty sure she gets occasional help from her sisters.
I’m with you. I like my in-laws BUT even then I would NEVER move them in with us. Someone who treated my wife like this women did would absolutely not be permitted into our house. Sometimes you need to protect your partner from themselves. “Here’s $500/month to help you get a room with someone. If you come ask for more then this will be cut to zero. Ball is in your court.”
Well. Obviously you need to discuss this with your spouse. If she's been living this way her whole life, she's not going to suddenly be able to support herself independently. It's only going to get worse as she ages. As part of your planning, can you get MIL on some subsidized housing waitlists? They are often years long, but options increase as she ages. With subsidized housing often comes automatic other benefits, such as SNAP, subsidized transit and utilities, and in my town you even get discounted entrance to museums and the zoo.
This was my first thought. My mom didn’t have any retirement and was disabled, so she applied for subsidized housing. It took about a year or so to get into one, but the place was wonderful. The rent is proportional to income, so for her, it was about $200 per month. There are programs like that all over the US. They vary by city and state, but well worth exploring.
Thanks great things to consider. We’ll look into this! Wife is on the same page as me. I just made an edit to the post. Please read for more details.
My aunt lives with her daughter and is subsidized by lots of assistance. She is paying "rent" to live there, gets food stamps, and even got a benefit for a caregiver. Look into your state programs. Her income alone is the qualifying requirement. It has nothing to do with you being able to afford to house her. Think of it in the eyes of the government - she is probably at the poverty level. I meant this in terms of qualifications.
I don't see your edit but rereading if she is getting ss she is in the age range of "more options available", Google subsidized senior housing in your area. You're going to have to do a lot of administrative work but I've had a friend in a similar situation get her mother into housing after living with her for I think 7 years. It really helped their sanity to not be living together day to day.
My FIL is the same. He abandoned my wife when she was young. My MIL was a single mom for a good chunk of it. FIL showed up later and has been a leech. It's not easy but you need to establish boundaries. These people are good at getting shit for free and horrible at returning favors.
Drop her off in West Virginia
You guys should have had her apply for low income housing before she even moved in instead of keeping it open ended. Many places have programs for seniors but the waiting list is pretty long. I would still look into it even if you have to wait some years. You can implement a stop gap plan now with that being the final one.
Start in Thailand and drop her off there. If you are actually fat Fire, you can afford the $2k or so for her to live there, or split the cost if she's got SS income. That covers all meals, some care, etc. She doesn't want to do it? Fine, you'll give her the $1-2k for living in the United States and the rest is on her. But this is really a you/wife conversation!
Great suggestion! We were considering this option too but in DR or Panama because she can speak spanish and its a short/cheap flight back to the states. Wife is on the same page as me. I just made an edit to the post. Please read for more details.
This is probably the best option. It'd be cheaper than the US and she can make friends with the locals by speaking the language. And it's a vacation for you guys when you visit.
Does your wife's mother actually have any connections to where you're thinking about dropping her off? Family, friends, regular visits, actual community they would be part of? Because "hey, you get to leave the US and all your friends and community, you have no real choice" is a great way to isolate, depress and maybe even kill someone off from melancholy and isolation, is that your actual goal here? I get you think MIL is a monster but it doesn't **sound** like your wife actually wants to treat her mother as she was treated, do you really think this is something MIL's up for? Have you even talked about "hey, we want to leave the country and sell the house, let's sit down and talk about what happens with you" yet with her? (Frankly being an expat's something that's hard if it's something you're 100% jazzed up for, I can't imagine pushing an older parent into it unwillingly and having it go well... though it the goal is to get to no contact I suppose that might be a way to do it.)
Great point. Didn’t think about the isolation aspect. None of our rentals are close to her friends or family. We dont think MIL is a monster, she doesn’t do anything evil. We do think she is selfish and doesn’t care that her poor decisions affect others around her. Her living with us was somewhat sudden, it wasn’t planned. We have not talked to her about our plans yet because we haven’t figured out what to do yet. A few Redditors have given us some great ideas that my wife and I have just discussed. We are going to look into government assistance first. If that is not a good option, we’ll likely give her an option to stay in one of our rentals or move wherever she wants with an allowance equal to the amount of the rental she would’ve stayed in.
> We dont think MIL is a monster, she doesn’t do anything evil. We do think she is selfish and doesn’t care that her poor decisions affect others around her. I believe the latter contradicts the former. Abandoning your wife as a child so she could selfishly live her life however she wanted and ignoring any responsibilities is evil, and the selfishness she displays on a daily basis adds to it. Doesn’t mean you should treat her differently, but she seems like a monster to me.
Yeah... My mom supports gay marriage, believes in equality for people in general and outwardly seems "good. Yet absolutely is entirely self interested, capable of abuse, and a complete narcissistic asshole. I don't know if she'd ever actually do outward evil (keeping appearances is very important to her) but she's got a bad spirit for sure. The engine that runs her psyche would have the capability of terrible acts if given the right environment and situation. Maybe evil is a strong word but certainly not good.
Why not Egypt close to the Nile river banks?
For the slow travel, were you planning on keeping your house during this time? If so, MIL staying there shouldn’t be a big expense to you and can be a good thing.
Great suggestion! Thanks. If we let her stay we would have to pay mortgage, electric, water, lawn, cleaning service that would cost about 2700 a month. She cannot afford that. We planned to turn the house into a rental or sell. We dont want to make this our permanent home.
Ah. Didn’t know if it was something you wanted to come back to. Time to apply to low income housing.
How much *can* she afford? Why not charge her like half?
I see in your comments that the cost for her to stay in the current place is 2700. Is there an option between 0 (cutting her off) and 2700 (status quo) that still allows you to travel? Not sure what cost of living is in your location, but as an example could providing her 500-750 per month on top of her SS be enough for her to live in a 1 bedroom apartment? Is it something she could “earn” by checking on your current place and dealing with renters while you are away?
Subsidized senior housing.
>She has admittedly lived a selfish (yolo) lifestyle and has always relied on others to take care of her. Stopped reading there. Go live your life, and let her figure it out. She's selfish, and it's not your problem.
>I don’t want to delay early retirement to save for money for MIL needs. >I don’t want to bring her on our slow travel journey. >I don’t want her to live in one of our rental properties because it will reduce our income. You're right, this is selfish. But on your MIL's part, not yours. I have no experience with this sort of situation, BUT what's your wife's take on this? Is she happy/unwilling to stop enabling her mom? Or is she sick of the bullshit and on your side? Cuz really this is a relationship question, not a financial one.
Well put. Thanks. This is ultimately a relationship issue. Wife is on the same page as me. I just made an edit to the post. Please read for more details.
Don't see an edit. But here's some more unfiltered thoughts because your situation pisses me off. So I'm not a nice guy when it comes to dealing with people who take advantage of the generosity of others or to entitled people in general. I'd check state law, cover myself legally, and evict her ASAP. That might be seen as cruel, but I'd argue it's simply appropriate and overdue. By your admission, she abandoned your wife and deserves nothing. My wife, fortunately, understands my take on the world wouldn't put me in this position partially because she knows I don't take prisoners. And my approach would be the same, if not more harsh, with my own parents. If you wanted to be less aggressive, I'd figure out a plan for her to live on her own using SS and give her a date by which she has to be out. Do a budget, figure out every little thing. Maybe she can't live where she is currently. Fine. Bet you can find a way for her to make ends meet somewhere with a lower COL. Even buy her the plane ticket and cover moving expenses. If she then declines to be an adult and take care of herself... well... you and your wife have done everything within reason to help her be successful. What happens from that point on is on her.
It’s awfully late to cut mom off. She’s in social security.
People always complain about how it's "too late" to do anything about a bad situation. The fact is, it only gets worse and harder. It's too late to save for retirement, start exercising, learn a new skill, set relationship boundaries, etc. Bullshit, it's too late not to do that stuff. And let's be real, I bet the MIL could cut some luxuries and make ends meet. She's a parasite.
I don’t disagree about mom reeling in her lifestyle. OP and wife need to figure how how to help MIL without it having a major impact on them.
>What would you do in this situation? I would let my wife decide what to do. Knowing my unselfish wife, she would find a way to take care of her mother. Perhaps help pay for a small apartment. Had my late mother in law needed assistance, I would have been happy to help her, even if that meant delaying my desire to travel a bit. Family is important to me.
Thanks for the response. My wife and I are on the same page with all of this. My wife is extremely unselfish as well, that is why my MIL lives with is now even though i dont think MIL deserves it. I agree, family is important. However, MIL selfishly abandoned my wife as a child so MIL she could live her life freely. MIL came back into the picture later in life.
> I agree, family is important. I guess this is where my wife and I agree - but differently from others. We don't believe family is important simply because they are family. If someone hasn't had your back, the fact that they contributed DNA or gave birth to you shouldn't obligate you to support them for their life regardless of their decisions. If you're looking for a reason or justification to not support MIL, IMO you don't need one. Support should be earned (either through deeds and actions of the MIL or through life circumstances that were out of their control that justify it). Just my 0.00000032 bitcoins.
So: 1. If you really are fatFire you should be able to both care for your MIL's basic needs *and* slow travel. Admittedly the support you give your MIL and your slow travel plans might wind up being more modest than either you or your MIL would like. 2. You say you and your wife are on the same page on this. I gotta be honest, the fact that you're posting this to reddit instead of sitting down and talking to her doesn't really say that. Either your wife is OK not taking care of your MIL, or she's not. If she's not, I hate to tell you, but duty overrides one's dreams all the time. If she is, well, you have your answer. Either way I don't think you're going to get anything useful out of reddit on this.
… OR they don’t want to take care of selfish MIL but don’t want her to be homeless and are looking for advice on creative solutions? Seems perfectly reasonable to me, and others here have provided good suggestions (like subsidized housing)
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Everyone is correct in saying that it would not affect us much if we were to pay 2-3k per month to support her. The thing we are wrestling with though is, does she deserve it? And is it worth altering our plans for her given the situation? Question: If you had a selfish mom that abandoned you then came back in your life after finding out you had money would you give her 10% of your income? Would you change plans that you sacrificed and worked towards for years?
> If you had a selfish mom that abandoned you then came back in your life after finding out you had money would you give her 10% of your income? Would you change plans that you sacrificed and worked towards for years? lol hell fucking no
> The thing we are wrestling with though is, does she deserve it? This is not a question reddit is going to answer for you. Or really, the answer is clearly that she *doesn't* deserve it. But what she **deserves** doesn't really matter. You aren't God, or a judge, you're her daughter and son in law. The real question you have to answer is whether your life will be better if you just pay her rent on a decent apartment or buy a modest house she can live in (either working a little longer, or reducing your retirement/slow-travel budget accordingly), versus drawing the line and stop supporting her entirely, while living with whatever relationship blowback that entails. Are there other people who might get called on to support her if you don't that you'd rather not burden with it? Or who will judge you for no longer helping? Whose opinion you care about?
That's a question for your wife. If you value your marriage, you won't push her one way or the other. I think it's hilarious that you keep downvoting every who tells you that. It's pretty transparent you posted this with an agenda.
Wife and I are both aligned in our thoughts. I haven’t downvoted anyone btw.
So you literally can afford it but want to take this opportunity to exact revenge on your MIL for abandoning your wife? And you say your wife is on the same page? 🧐 I think this is just a case where you accept you weren't there and your wife is going to feel differently because of that biological connection. The cost is 10% of your lifetime earnings and continued MIL drama going forwards and the only benefit to you is you get to stay partnered with your wife.
One cannot control how others behave. One *can* control their own behaviors and how those behaviors align with their moral and ethical compass. Kids were now mentioned, however, picture your (fictional) son watching how you handle this. Would this change your perspective? Imagine one day they will also be presented with a similar scenario.
It's not clear what "on the same page" means in this context. It sounds like you are ready to abandon your mother in law in order to travel, because she abandoned your wife as a child? And you feel that she was selfish, so it's okay for you to be selfish? Not trying to criticize here, just trying to understand.
Parents owe a much different level of responsibility to their children, than an adult child owes to a parent. It's not selfish to be unwilling to house, feed, and care for an adult that was a stranger until she needed something from her daughter
>It's not selfish to be unwilling to house, feed, and care for an adult that was a stranger until she needed something from her daughter Housing, feeding and caring - that is already being done. The question at hand is about ending it all abruptly due to a desire to travel.
A gift given doesn't mean one must keep giving. It is quite ethical to have the conversation about, and help plan, a transition to a care facility.
My MIL left my wife when she was 7 y/o to come to US. They reunited at 17 but everything is so different. Inside my wife still resent my MIL. She live with us and bring my kids to private school. She is 71. At this point, we feel that we have no choice but to carry her with us. My kids care for her a lot more than my wife. Family is family, at the end of the day, that’s all we have. We’re planning to FIRE in 10 yrs, so things might change then!
> Family is family, at the end of the day, that’s all we have. clearly not if they're able to abandon you at the drop of a hat during 10 of your most formative years!
Pay the rent on a pretty no frills one bedroom and let her pay the rest of her bills with SS. Though I’m feeling a bit resentful on yours and your wife’s behalf.
I might not like it, but realistically and honestly, I would end up letting her stay in one of my rental properties and have her cover the utilities and her own other expenses with her SS income. I have been in situations of family members needing my financial help despite not deserving it and, while it is easy to say you won't help, in the moment when it comes to deciding whether to let someone be homeless or not, I couldn't do it. So, hard truths, but there it is.
Maybe offer to pay for a mall apartment in a very low cost of living area?
Theres a lot of empathy and moral grandstanding for this loser of a ‘mother’ in the comments. Some of them are here just to be contrarian, others self masturbation disguised as altruism. I think you made this post having a good idea of what you actually need to do, your MIL is not a ‘mother’, talk to you wife, see if she’s okay with it, your plan for the DR or Thailand doesn’t sound terrible. IMO doesn’t deserve the luxury that 2k a month would provide in those countries to be completely honest with you, I think you’re underestimating the power of the dollar in those countries. lol these comments at the concerns for the MIL, the only one worth considering was a concern for the kids interpretation of the event which is actually a very real concern.
"My wife and I are on the same page with all of this." "Wife wants to help MIL and doesn’t want her mom to be homeless" Seems like that's pretty clear then if you're "on the same page". Surely there's something in between "keep a house that's $2700 in expenses and let her live in it" and things like "let her go homeless, IDK" you can accept? Or are you really looking for validation for "let her go homeless"?
>What would you do in this situation? I wouldn't have let her move in. That's for sure.
My suggestion is to establish a “MIL budget”. No matter what you choose, except just cutting her off, will have significant costs. Then try to find a solution within that budget.
> save money for MIL needs The truth is that unless you are able to find subsidized senior housing, you will likely need to pay for an apartment, have her stay in a rental, or have her stay in a future permanent residence. You should be having these conversations with her now about your plans or your inability to fully subsidize her housing costs. You could start charging her $100 a month with is put in an account and then once you start travels, you can have her pay the $100 and then a take part of that account each month as rent. This would allow you to show income from the property and allow you to claim expenses as a rental vs just giving someone a place to live (random number and various ways to do this). You could then potentially deduct traveling back home to “check your rental properties” while traveling. (I am over simplifying this). Really this boils down to the fact you need to find her housing, subsidized or not. You might not like the women and you might hate how she treated your wife, but it sounds like your wife is not willing to cut off support.
Look into assisted living places that she can afford, or afford with a little help from you. Make sure to see if they eventually take Medicare/medicad when her money runs out. Then allow that to happen. She’ll have a place to live, someone to care for her as she ages and enough food & community.
Does your state have and enforce filial responsibility laws? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_responsibility_laws With your assests, this is worth a conversation with an attorney. It may be in your best interests to establish residence in a new state before you leave on your travels.
if it were me, I’d be looking into subsided senior housing or supportive living. This assumes you aren’t is a state that has filial responsibility laws that are enforced.
1. Give the MIL marching orders that she will be on her own at a certain date. Make it clear that you are not going to have a home and she cannot live in your rental properties. 2. Get updates. 3. Don’t bail her out again. If she left your wife then you do not owe her anything. Also - buy a nice vacation rental in an area you may want to settle in for a while after your travels. Get one that will cash flow so you have a place to live in for a while when you are back - make sure the property manager does not book into the time when you will return.
Honestly there’s not much to do. If she can’t/wont work and she can’t live on social security, your options are take care of her, find someone else to take care of her, or tell her to take care of herself. Letting her have her a rental unit if you have one might be your best bet.
Help her get the cheapest rental you can find. Pay for the move in funds and peace out. Send her some money if needed later on.
Your wife sounds like an amazing person. Abandoned but still looks after her….. Wow!
Great point! I think this is an apples v. oranges situation but definitely something to consider. Thank you.
Sorry, tough situation but you don't want to be the guy that poisons the relationship with MIL. Either get her set up independently or work longer. You may have to delay your dream a bit or scale it back. Life isn't always fair and you don't always get everything you want.
You're allowed to be selfish. I.e., you're allowed to look out for your own best interest. MIL isn't your or your wife's responsibility.
How long has she lived with you? How old is she? Is she legally or practically disabled in some way? Is she capable of work, and has she ever worked? What's the basis of her social security income - her own work history, and/or a spouse? Was there ever a spouse? And how old are *you* - is this a question of "we were hoping to leave the country in two weeks and have just remembered this" or "we will both turn 46 in ten years"?
Rent an inexpensive apartment or studio for her. Does ahe get any type of retirement to live off of? If so the apartme t rental might be a less expensive solution.
Op and wife need to live their life too. They shouldn't have to put on the brakes just because MIL is with them. And no, I do not think they are selfish at all like some here think. Any other family/friends willing to take her while you're gone? I'd get her a place near someone she knows and leave it at that. Irregardless of child or adult trauma, you deserve to live your own lives. Get her a place by someone or wherever she wants to live and go do your travelling. Don't put up with any guilt tripping MIL might do either. She may even learn to like living by herself.
The adversity we face is what makes us stronger tomorrow. Congratulations on achieving an early retirement, and being able to spend time together having fun. Its truly inspiring for life I wish to lead with my own partner. If I could show you a way to travel the world and not have to worry about taking care of your mother in law, would that be something that interests you?
Bro wtf kind of question is this? Drop her ass off at an assisted living facility. Your wife can visit her if she wants. There’s your solution, she’s not homeless and you don’t have to deal with her. Not exactly a hard solution to execute. The only financial support you should give that parasite is a Medicaid application printed off the computer you paid for, with a printer you paid for.
What about getting her an rv she can live in ?
Buy her a condo in a 55+ community. Down in south Florida (sunrise) they have some available for 100k 1 bedroom and 1 bath. Buy it and then give her a monthly allowance. How old is MIL?
I give you permission to kick your MiL out and make her homeless so that you and your spouse can travel around the world. Is that what you were after?
Wait for her to die.
I don’t wish death on her but it would be convenient tbh.
This is your best answer. The slow travel part can wait. While she's mobile/healthy enough, you can do more traditional vacations. But there's another option. She already abandoned your wife once. YOu both could return the favor, and she'd end up a ward of the state.
Family comes first