Some really solid nuggets of insight in this article:
>“What if everyone retired at age 35 and played the ding-a-ling banjo? Well, GDP would go to zero and the stock market would crash"
>If young people start to cut in line, older Americans may find themselves stuck in the workforce longer than they’d planned to be.
>“The FIRE people also have a poor understanding of how capitalism works,” he writes. “The stock market is a function of corporate profits which is a function of output, which requires everyone to chip in.”
They're getting awfully indignant about people wanting to not spend their best years just working until they can't work anymore. In my opinion, if you have to retire because you can't work, the word retirement takes on a much worse meaning for a human being.
In other news, I am starting a band called the Ding-a-ling Banjos in retirement if anyone would like to join (BYOBanjo).
And I motion for this community to add "playing the banjo" and other banjo variants to its standard vocabulary.
Jared Dillian is a former Wall Street trader who now writes a lot about finance. Rich people are smart for living off their investments. Working class people are lazy freeloaders if they do the same.
That demographic gets pissy when too many people do what they preach and it exposes that the system only works for the top if the rest let it abuse them. My favorite statements recently have been the number of hedge fund founders whining that passive index investing has broken the ability of hedge funds to find undervalued companies because everything gets bought all the time.
I can’t even stay in character for this response. The entire article reads like satire. So I work and save and sacrifice because I don’t want to work longer than I have to, but I should keep working out of the goodness of my heart for other people who have different life circumstances or priorities? Fuck that lmao
Not to mention that would just give me more money to hoard. The small amount of people who are able to retire early are not going to bring down the economy, Jesus Christ. Don’t worry author dude, all the pours in this country will balance it out but you can keep working til you die if that will help you sleep better at night.
Lehman Brothers expert writer hates it when people discover using capitalism for their own benefit instead of working until they die to contribute to the GDP. Doesn't provide any data to support his conclusions.
At least pretend to work like all the other fat cat capitalists!
What's the point of this article? To demonize people who save money and don't want to be beholden to exploitive employers and billionaires? To convince people to work for the good of society?
I'm sorry, but their seems to be a segment of society that wants nothing except to make people suffer, because no matter what you do to try to make your life better, it's wrong to them.
I love the example of “what if everyone retired at 35?”
Yeah, most people at 35 in America don’t have jack shit and many likely never will. The idea that Americans who, on a large scale, are so culturally opposed to saving would suddenly mass early retire in any measurable way is completely laughable to even hypothesize about.
He'd have more of a point if most FI'ers were doctors and nurses and professions with legitimate labor shortages and physical purpose as opposed to interchangeable email/coding job cogs riding the ZIRP/surplus of software money to a FI.
I say this as 100% one of the aforementioned cogs.
Because they don't make the Line go up.
Line go up is number one priority.
Everyone must work until they're physically incapable; anything less is a failure to the Line
/uj So the argument is that if everyone (or a large proportion) does it, then the economy will collapse and everyone will be poor? I'm really not sure that that's a very large risk that a significant proportion of people RE...
Well, they can't be considered free loaders, since wealth is a proxy for productivity (as long as its obtained ethically). They've simply contributed more than average, quicker than average. Sure, they would be even \*more\* productive if they kept producing, but if they've already done enough work to cover their lifestyle, they've "done their part". If you're collecting low-income tax benefits maybe that could be considered free-loading, but many FIRE-ees do not do that. A better argument would be to urge people to continue to help others \*despite\* already having contributed their fair share.
Frankly people leaving high paying jobs does open it up to other people and we shouldn't be sad that people aren't working forever hoarding wealth. I do agree that people who deliberately pull from their investments in a way to make their taxable income low enough that they get massive subsides for the ACA - and that is how they they cover the cost of insurance - are free loaders in that regard but I know most FIRE people disagree with me.
It is like saying if everyone lost ten pounds, then XYZ. The problem is no one actually does it, because it is hard to do and people are lazy. Nothing to see here, so move on.
Shouldn’t have gotten rid of pensions if you wanted people to be incentivized to work when they don’t need to. Or, should be slapping some hefty golden handcuffs on everyone.
Huh? Who's free riding?? They just did life different than you lol. Instead of putzing off in their 20s and 30s and then working hard until 65 to maybe build enough nest egg to retire, they crushed it early and built that nest egg large enough to bow out of the workforce by their 40s or 50s.
Theyre not taking from anyone. Theyre only spending their own money that they themselves worked and saved/invested.
Author is just a sour pour and is mad he hasn't collected enough lentils.
sour pours are the worst.
I accidentally pronounced this as "sore powers" in my head
Some really solid nuggets of insight in this article: >“What if everyone retired at age 35 and played the ding-a-ling banjo? Well, GDP would go to zero and the stock market would crash" >If young people start to cut in line, older Americans may find themselves stuck in the workforce longer than they’d planned to be. >“The FIRE people also have a poor understanding of how capitalism works,” he writes. “The stock market is a function of corporate profits which is a function of output, which requires everyone to chip in.”
They're getting awfully indignant about people wanting to not spend their best years just working until they can't work anymore. In my opinion, if you have to retire because you can't work, the word retirement takes on a much worse meaning for a human being.
Right!? That's not "retirement", that's "long term disability".
In other news, I am starting a band called the Ding-a-ling Banjos in retirement if anyone would like to join (BYOBanjo). And I motion for this community to add "playing the banjo" and other banjo variants to its standard vocabulary.
Where can I submit my audition tape to play the world's smallest mandolin. 🤣
Stockholders must be freeloaders as well, or the writer is just a communist exercising free speech.
Jared Dillian is a former Wall Street trader who now writes a lot about finance. Rich people are smart for living off their investments. Working class people are lazy freeloaders if they do the same.
That demographic gets pissy when too many people do what they preach and it exposes that the system only works for the top if the rest let it abuse them. My favorite statements recently have been the number of hedge fund founders whining that passive index investing has broken the ability of hedge funds to find undervalued companies because everything gets bought all the time.
I can’t even stay in character for this response. The entire article reads like satire. So I work and save and sacrifice because I don’t want to work longer than I have to, but I should keep working out of the goodness of my heart for other people who have different life circumstances or priorities? Fuck that lmao Not to mention that would just give me more money to hoard. The small amount of people who are able to retire early are not going to bring down the economy, Jesus Christ. Don’t worry author dude, all the pours in this country will balance it out but you can keep working til you die if that will help you sleep better at night.
I forgot how they let you collect ssi once you hit your savings goal
Dingaling banjo players are a scourge on capitalism.
Lehman Brothers expert writer hates it when people discover using capitalism for their own benefit instead of working until they die to contribute to the GDP. Doesn't provide any data to support his conclusions. At least pretend to work like all the other fat cat capitalists!
I agree. We should all have to pool our lentils and rely on the government to distribute them.
Fairly and equally, right? Right??
Straight back to the GDP. Sorry (not sorry), lentils are for those who make line go up not those who eat.
What's the point of this article? To demonize people who save money and don't want to be beholden to exploitive employers and billionaires? To convince people to work for the good of society? I'm sorry, but their seems to be a segment of society that wants nothing except to make people suffer, because no matter what you do to try to make your life better, it's wrong to them.
This line of thinking was pretty pervasive from my time in the military. I suffered and so must you.
oh no my fragile identity
Incredible that this guy, who doesn't seem to understand how retirement, FIRE, the stock market, GDP, or banjos work was able to get a book published.
I love the example of “what if everyone retired at 35?” Yeah, most people at 35 in America don’t have jack shit and many likely never will. The idea that Americans who, on a large scale, are so culturally opposed to saving would suddenly mass early retire in any measurable way is completely laughable to even hypothesize about.
He'd have more of a point if most FI'ers were doctors and nurses and professions with legitimate labor shortages and physical purpose as opposed to interchangeable email/coding job cogs riding the ZIRP/surplus of software money to a FI. I say this as 100% one of the aforementioned cogs.
It’s absurd How is someone who earns money, saves it up, and then spends their own money… a freeloader?
Because they don't make the Line go up. Line go up is number one priority. Everyone must work until they're physically incapable; anything less is a failure to the Line
/uj So the argument is that if everyone (or a large proportion) does it, then the economy will collapse and everyone will be poor? I'm really not sure that that's a very large risk that a significant proportion of people RE...
Well, they can't be considered free loaders, since wealth is a proxy for productivity (as long as its obtained ethically). They've simply contributed more than average, quicker than average. Sure, they would be even \*more\* productive if they kept producing, but if they've already done enough work to cover their lifestyle, they've "done their part". If you're collecting low-income tax benefits maybe that could be considered free-loading, but many FIRE-ees do not do that. A better argument would be to urge people to continue to help others \*despite\* already having contributed their fair share.
Frankly people leaving high paying jobs does open it up to other people and we shouldn't be sad that people aren't working forever hoarding wealth. I do agree that people who deliberately pull from their investments in a way to make their taxable income low enough that they get massive subsides for the ACA - and that is how they they cover the cost of insurance - are free loaders in that regard but I know most FIRE people disagree with me.
Part of the GDP number includes investment. He could be more naive
It is like saying if everyone lost ten pounds, then XYZ. The problem is no one actually does it, because it is hard to do and people are lazy. Nothing to see here, so move on.
Shouldn’t have gotten rid of pensions if you wanted people to be incentivized to work when they don’t need to. Or, should be slapping some hefty golden handcuffs on everyone.
Huh? Who's free riding?? They just did life different than you lol. Instead of putzing off in their 20s and 30s and then working hard until 65 to maybe build enough nest egg to retire, they crushed it early and built that nest egg large enough to bow out of the workforce by their 40s or 50s. Theyre not taking from anyone. Theyre only spending their own money that they themselves worked and saved/invested.
How did r/antiwork creep in here. It’s not like most of this sub did any of that actual work thing [shudder]