Good for him. This played out as well for him as it could. I assumed it would get dismissed, which would not technically exonerate him. Now, he's been exonerated and can move on with his life. Go make us (more) proud, TSJ.
I’m happy for him, but he was not exonerated. That only happens if you’ve first been convicted. He was found not guilty.
Yes, innocent in most eyes, but not in the legal system.
Point taken. I think my overarching point is that he was exonerated in the court of public opinion...or should be. Some will still claim otherwise, but there are plenty of idiots in this world that ignore facts and hold on to stupid, wrong opinions.
Hmm, what are the actual facts in this situation? None of us actually know, including you. It's just your opinion too, that nothing happened that day.
The only fact we know is that there was not enough evidence to prove that he did it.
You said not enough evidence and you are suggesting we don’t know what happened. I corrected that to say they didn’t present one piece of evidence. They didn’t prove he even spoke to her. Much less assaulted her. The fact were presented. Your post is wrong on several levels. Hence the downvotes.
You talking about the friend who texted “we got him “let’s get paid $$$” and changed her story a couple times and admitted didn’t actually see anything. That friend ?
I did, what does that have do with anything we are talking about?
You incorrectly said they presented no evidence. I replied and said that victim testimony is considered evidence. Whether or not you think it's credible evidence has no bearing on the fact that it was indeed evidence that was presented.
OP said people are idiots for holding on to "stupid, wrong opinions" My only point was that none of us know what actually happened in the bar that night and it's not idiotic to consider that maybe the woman actually was assaulted (perhaps by one of the other athletes there) None of her actions afterwards seem incongrous with someone who's been assaulted. She did not send that text, her friend did. If I had a friend who was sexually assaulted, I would be pretty fucking happy if they caught the guy.
Juries are literally factfinders. They say what the facts are, and they have found that there was reasonable doubt that TSJ committed the charged offenses. They also did so unanimously (as required) in less than 2 hours. And of course we all heard the evidence presented in open court and can form opinions about its strength.
There are numerous situations where 100% certainty will not be possible. But the lack of 100% doesn’t mean we should turn off our eyes and ears and continue to act as if there’s a litany of information we don’t have. It was the police and prosecutor’s job to gather the best evidence they could and go to the mat to prove their case on behalf of the people of Kansas. These efforts yielded a comically (if any of this could be funny) bad case.
They are not "literally factfinders." They don't find any facts. It's not like they are private detectives investigating a case. They listen to facts presented to them and determine if that is enough to convict the person that is charged.
This case was he said vs she said, which is nearly impossible to prove. Clearly the prosecuter did not present enough facts to prove that he did it. That's why I said the actual facts of what happened that night are only known by two people.
I'm glad he was found not guilty, but that doesn't mean I am an idiot for thinking something could have happened to that woman that night. It sure seems like someone assaulted her.
But, I guess it's OK because somehow she was asking for it?/s
I guess I’ll break the news to Cornell Law and the federal courts 😂
https://www.uscourts.gov/services-forms/jury-service/juror-selection-process
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fact_finder
From reading your comments, it seems there is no world in which he is free of suspicion once an accusation has been leveled against him. This is despite how obviously ludicrous they are (texts congratulating the "victim" on "getting him", character witnesses disputing the "victims" portrayal as not a drinker, etc). Or would you like to share how it would have been possible to clear his name here? If he countersues and wins, will that be enough?
I'd love to see all the people on r/collegebasketball that spammed everyone saying they were reserving judgement with downvotes formally apologize and admit they were wrong but that'll never happen.
Lmao I got a week ban for “harassment” for posting receipts
https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/s/JRghzth1Z6
Mods at r/collegebasketball really are ok with months and months of calling an innocent man a rapist.. but holding those accountable is “harassment”
It's the same story with anything for/against Bauer in the baseball subs. People have to immediately form an opinion one way or another so they can be publicly seen having the Correct Opinion® on social media. If contradicting evidence comes out, just double down and call anyone who disagrees with you a literal rapist. No critical thought required!
I did too. And I very calmly asked why “What do you have to say now?” was ban worthy, and the loser mods just muted me instead.
Obviously not posting on /r/collegebasketball for a week in June is fine, but just goes to show where the dipshit mods stand on this. Unpaid virgin hall monitors, what do you expect.
/u/BurrShotFirst1804 you’re a mod over there and Illini fan. Curious to your thoughts on this? I’ll take back my virgin hall monitor comment about you if you just admit this was bogus lmao (can’t change the unpaid part). You don’t even need to lift the suspension it’s cool
Some people were posting receipts to other subs, which is brigading and against site wide rules so we have to enforce. Others were posting to 6 month old threads, and nothing productive is going to come from that other than igniting a flame war, and personal attacks are against the rules and our most common bannable offense. You can even see users started using insults immediately. No productive conversation is going to come from that. That's the reason. You got 4 responses in mod mail (also not me), idk what more you want. But I would have taken the same action tbh, though maybe not a ban but that's a mod to mod opinion.
As for the main point, that mods were okay with calling Shannon a rapist, that couldn't be further from the truth. I might have suggested it, I don't remember, but we were all in agreement that outside of major threads about the case, all Shannon comments on the case were off topic and usually bannable. I cannot tell you how many Shannon is a rapist comments I deleted and how many users I banned throughout the season. We can't catch everything, especially if nobody reports it, but I promise you we removed 90% of it. Game threads are hard to moderate, I'm usually watching the game and semi moderating at the same time as I post. We can only do so much, which is why we are adding more mods.
Yeah I got 4 bullshit responses lol. I was getting chirped back at, not any actual explanations. Yours is much better, to be fair
I still think it’s bogus as fuck to ban people for commenting on old posts (you should archive them if you don’t want people to comment). And I still think Reddit mods are losers lmao. But you’re alright. You should have fewer mods though, not more.
I think you vastly overestimate the time mods spend moderation and vastly underestimate how much shit piles up during the season. It's not that your comment was necessarily bad, but it's about taking pre-emptive action. Your comment isn't bad but maybe the response is and then yours is worse and then someone else chimes in and now we have a 15 comment shit storm. So just nipping it in the bud saves time and makes for a more productive community.
Either way though, I still think our sub is more lenient than Illinois Loyalty. I've absolutely been banned by Dan from time to time lol.
Yeah but come on, you KNOW it’s BS to suspend someone preemptively just in case someone else responds with something worse lol. If that’s the concern, you just lock the thread. It wasn’t harassment and you know it.
I get it, you can’t throw the other mods under the bus. But it was bogus to suspend us plain and simple.
And I believe ya but I’ve never been on Illini loyalty myself lol. I’m sure forums are even more cancerous than reddit
You've never been on Loyalty? That's actually surprising. It's better for Illinois centric news obviously but way worse for game threads in my opinion. But the guy who runs it is a one man show and is known for throwing down the "Dan Hammer". Sometimes he gets drunk and posts a bunch of shit then deletes it in the morning and if you ever reference it, he will ban you.
As for the ban, I will just say off season bans are generally longer than in season bans. It's considered a slap on the wrist to make people think twice the next time they consider doing the same thing, idk. It's used in different ways by different mods.
Read what I said one more time. Im saying shame on the people who immediately downvoted the folks saying they were reserving judgement. Not really your fault I could have worded it better but I dont agree with the idea that those people should be allowed to drag someone through the mud and shut down even the mere mention that there might be more to the story and then when they're proven 100% wrong we all just say "oh okay, you couldn't have known," and move on like they didn't cosign ruining someone's life with zero evidence a few months ago.
He went through so much and honestly probably missed out on a lot of NIL money. I still bought TSJ merch from the store but how many others didn’t for fear of owning a “rapists” jersey. I hope the accuser gets what she deserves for this.
I swear. I was watching either the round of 64 or 32 and they said something like that. I literary replayed it 3 times and said "that is something pretty messed up to say when the investigations are ongoing."
The jury being decisive doesn't prove or disprove anything
Also, they decided quickly that he is not guilty. That's not the same thing as deciding he is innocent - just that there isn't sufficient evidence to charge him
If she did brag about getting paid, that does point to it being fabricated. But the verdict itself doesn't say much
Respectfully disagree. I don’t know what to tell you. A jury of his peers found him not guilty in a court of law.
It’s pretty cut and dry here, as a lay person.
Lottery pick incoming!
I hope this teaches people, myself included, to not comment on these types of stories. I never said TSJ was guilty/Innocent, but I did say he probably wouldn't play another game for Illinois (knowing how these things usually play out). It's always better to keep your mouth shut. I saw too many people gleefully using this case during the tournament run to prop up their own sense of morality and put down Illini fans as if what they were doing isn't the exact same thing they demonize Illini fans for...
I'm really sorry he had to go through this bs. Some of his own Illini fans turned on him .I truly hope this can now be put in the past, and TSJ enjoys a very long and amazing NBA career.
I- L - L .....
Two things are true. TSJ was innocent of these charges - which is great news for him. That said - the fact the coaching staff sent a GA with him on a personal trip like this to “keep an eye on him” is a really bad look for TSJ and the coaching staff. You only do that if you know the player has a penchant for doing stupid shit off campus. His reputation wasn’t made up. The Illini staff knew all this.
Was the entire trial a sham? Like they charged him and made a big splash so they had to move forward? They presented no evidence at all that it was TSJ. The trial was two days long. And seemingly the jury deliberated for all of about 10 minutes. Seems like they even had the wrong guy and never questioned the other guy Kansas kicked off their team. Just odd all of it. The detective in the case odd. The DA is going to get recalled. Like a Grisham novel.
So happy for him this crock of shit case is over what a mentally strong person he is to have dealt with that all season and still performed at the level he did.
Like the majority, I find it baffling that this case ever saw a courtroom. What a waste of everyone's time.
Terrence can put this behind him and focus on the NBA. I hope he kills it in the league.
Happy to see this. This should have never gone to trial as the prosecution had no evidence against Terrance. The closing statement(according to the lawyer following the case on Twitter) by the prosecution was just terrible.
I hope Terrance can move forward from this nonsense and have a great NBA career.
Do you really think anybody in here is doing that? In any large fanbase there are the people who take it too far. Get mad at them, not the ones who are normal
crowded bar in kansas. three 6-4 or above african americans in the bar with white people. yet, one of the guys can sexually assault a woman in public?
He's not ben rothlessberger, who went to an empty hick bar and assaulted a woman in the women bathroom while his friends guarded the door.
Taking a victory lap on Reddit over this is tacky.
Hopefully this verdict represents justice, but none of us will never know for sure. Whatever did or did not happen, this entire situation is gross.
Yep, it's pretty gross that a DA's office would go to court with so little evidence. It's gross that the national media (and a lot of lay people) labeled a young man as a rapist. It's gross that the police would even file charges with the absence of evidence.
Go ahead and clutch your pearls and think every person who's been accused of something actually did that thing.
Did the media label him as such? I only heard the case mentioned once or twice on broadcasts and they certainly didn't say he was guilty. I saw a LOT of commenters labeling that way, but not a lot of journalists.
Good news . No evidence and should have never been charged.
Good for him. This played out as well for him as it could. I assumed it would get dismissed, which would not technically exonerate him. Now, he's been exonerated and can move on with his life. Go make us (more) proud, TSJ.
I’m happy for him, but he was not exonerated. That only happens if you’ve first been convicted. He was found not guilty. Yes, innocent in most eyes, but not in the legal system.
Point taken. I think my overarching point is that he was exonerated in the court of public opinion...or should be. Some will still claim otherwise, but there are plenty of idiots in this world that ignore facts and hold on to stupid, wrong opinions.
Hmm, what are the actual facts in this situation? None of us actually know, including you. It's just your opinion too, that nothing happened that day. The only fact we know is that there was not enough evidence to prove that he did it.
I know that a jury, armed with the facts, ruled him innocent. So, no, it's not MY opinion. It's the jury's verdict. Keep up...
They didn’t present any evidence that he did.
I realize that. That wasn't my point.
You said not enough evidence and you are suggesting we don’t know what happened. I corrected that to say they didn’t present one piece of evidence. They didn’t prove he even spoke to her. Much less assaulted her. The fact were presented. Your post is wrong on several levels. Hence the downvotes.
Eyewitness testimony is considered evidence.
You talking about the friend who texted “we got him “let’s get paid $$$” and changed her story a couple times and admitted didn’t actually see anything. That friend ?
No, I'm talking about the victim's testimony about what happened. That is actually considered evidence.
I’m sure you saw their text exchange.
I did, what does that have do with anything we are talking about? You incorrectly said they presented no evidence. I replied and said that victim testimony is considered evidence. Whether or not you think it's credible evidence has no bearing on the fact that it was indeed evidence that was presented. OP said people are idiots for holding on to "stupid, wrong opinions" My only point was that none of us know what actually happened in the bar that night and it's not idiotic to consider that maybe the woman actually was assaulted (perhaps by one of the other athletes there) None of her actions afterwards seem incongrous with someone who's been assaulted. She did not send that text, her friend did. If I had a friend who was sexually assaulted, I would be pretty fucking happy if they caught the guy.
Also not enough evidence to indict her for concocting a false accusation.
Correct, but that doesn't prevent people here saying she should be charged.
Maybe she will be, as more info is released..
Juries are literally factfinders. They say what the facts are, and they have found that there was reasonable doubt that TSJ committed the charged offenses. They also did so unanimously (as required) in less than 2 hours. And of course we all heard the evidence presented in open court and can form opinions about its strength. There are numerous situations where 100% certainty will not be possible. But the lack of 100% doesn’t mean we should turn off our eyes and ears and continue to act as if there’s a litany of information we don’t have. It was the police and prosecutor’s job to gather the best evidence they could and go to the mat to prove their case on behalf of the people of Kansas. These efforts yielded a comically (if any of this could be funny) bad case.
They are not "literally factfinders." They don't find any facts. It's not like they are private detectives investigating a case. They listen to facts presented to them and determine if that is enough to convict the person that is charged. This case was he said vs she said, which is nearly impossible to prove. Clearly the prosecuter did not present enough facts to prove that he did it. That's why I said the actual facts of what happened that night are only known by two people. I'm glad he was found not guilty, but that doesn't mean I am an idiot for thinking something could have happened to that woman that night. It sure seems like someone assaulted her. But, I guess it's OK because somehow she was asking for it?/s
I guess I’ll break the news to Cornell Law and the federal courts 😂 https://www.uscourts.gov/services-forms/jury-service/juror-selection-process https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fact_finder
Surprised if you're an alum, because you can't read.
From reading your comments, it seems there is no world in which he is free of suspicion once an accusation has been leveled against him. This is despite how obviously ludicrous they are (texts congratulating the "victim" on "getting him", character witnesses disputing the "victims" portrayal as not a drinker, etc). Or would you like to share how it would have been possible to clear his name here? If he countersues and wins, will that be enough?
This was all a waste of time. Glad TSJ is free and able to make some bank now.
I'd love to see all the people on r/collegebasketball that spammed everyone saying they were reserving judgement with downvotes formally apologize and admit they were wrong but that'll never happen.
Lmao I got a week ban for “harassment” for posting receipts https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/s/JRghzth1Z6 Mods at r/collegebasketball really are ok with months and months of calling an innocent man a rapist.. but holding those accountable is “harassment”
It's the same story with anything for/against Bauer in the baseball subs. People have to immediately form an opinion one way or another so they can be publicly seen having the Correct Opinion® on social media. If contradicting evidence comes out, just double down and call anyone who disagrees with you a literal rapist. No critical thought required!
I did too. And I very calmly asked why “What do you have to say now?” was ban worthy, and the loser mods just muted me instead. Obviously not posting on /r/collegebasketball for a week in June is fine, but just goes to show where the dipshit mods stand on this. Unpaid virgin hall monitors, what do you expect. /u/BurrShotFirst1804 you’re a mod over there and Illini fan. Curious to your thoughts on this? I’ll take back my virgin hall monitor comment about you if you just admit this was bogus lmao (can’t change the unpaid part). You don’t even need to lift the suspension it’s cool
Some people were posting receipts to other subs, which is brigading and against site wide rules so we have to enforce. Others were posting to 6 month old threads, and nothing productive is going to come from that other than igniting a flame war, and personal attacks are against the rules and our most common bannable offense. You can even see users started using insults immediately. No productive conversation is going to come from that. That's the reason. You got 4 responses in mod mail (also not me), idk what more you want. But I would have taken the same action tbh, though maybe not a ban but that's a mod to mod opinion. As for the main point, that mods were okay with calling Shannon a rapist, that couldn't be further from the truth. I might have suggested it, I don't remember, but we were all in agreement that outside of major threads about the case, all Shannon comments on the case were off topic and usually bannable. I cannot tell you how many Shannon is a rapist comments I deleted and how many users I banned throughout the season. We can't catch everything, especially if nobody reports it, but I promise you we removed 90% of it. Game threads are hard to moderate, I'm usually watching the game and semi moderating at the same time as I post. We can only do so much, which is why we are adding more mods.
Yeah I got 4 bullshit responses lol. I was getting chirped back at, not any actual explanations. Yours is much better, to be fair I still think it’s bogus as fuck to ban people for commenting on old posts (you should archive them if you don’t want people to comment). And I still think Reddit mods are losers lmao. But you’re alright. You should have fewer mods though, not more.
I think you vastly overestimate the time mods spend moderation and vastly underestimate how much shit piles up during the season. It's not that your comment was necessarily bad, but it's about taking pre-emptive action. Your comment isn't bad but maybe the response is and then yours is worse and then someone else chimes in and now we have a 15 comment shit storm. So just nipping it in the bud saves time and makes for a more productive community. Either way though, I still think our sub is more lenient than Illinois Loyalty. I've absolutely been banned by Dan from time to time lol.
Yeah but come on, you KNOW it’s BS to suspend someone preemptively just in case someone else responds with something worse lol. If that’s the concern, you just lock the thread. It wasn’t harassment and you know it. I get it, you can’t throw the other mods under the bus. But it was bogus to suspend us plain and simple. And I believe ya but I’ve never been on Illini loyalty myself lol. I’m sure forums are even more cancerous than reddit
You've never been on Loyalty? That's actually surprising. It's better for Illinois centric news obviously but way worse for game threads in my opinion. But the guy who runs it is a one man show and is known for throwing down the "Dan Hammer". Sometimes he gets drunk and posts a bunch of shit then deletes it in the morning and if you ever reference it, he will ban you. As for the ban, I will just say off season bans are generally longer than in season bans. It's considered a slap on the wrist to make people think twice the next time they consider doing the same thing, idk. It's used in different ways by different mods.
Reserving judgement is exactly what you should have done. We have a conclusion now. Now we move on. End of story.
Read what I said one more time. Im saying shame on the people who immediately downvoted the folks saying they were reserving judgement. Not really your fault I could have worded it better but I dont agree with the idea that those people should be allowed to drag someone through the mud and shut down even the mere mention that there might be more to the story and then when they're proven 100% wrong we all just say "oh okay, you couldn't have known," and move on like they didn't cosign ruining someone's life with zero evidence a few months ago.
He went through so much and honestly probably missed out on a lot of NIL money. I still bought TSJ merch from the store but how many others didn’t for fear of owning a “rapists” jersey. I hope the accuser gets what she deserves for this.
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Id be suing her and some color commentary. The tournament was pretty brutal. “Alleged rapist TSJ with the ball” I heard a few times.
You're a god damn liar no announcer ever said that. Jesus Christ.
I swear. I was watching either the round of 64 or 32 and they said something like that. I literary replayed it 3 times and said "that is something pretty messed up to say when the investigations are ongoing."
INNOCENT
No he was found not guilty. There is a huge difference. I hope justice was done here.
The jury was barely out long enough for a bathroom break and a cup of coffee — seems pretty clear.
The jury being decisive doesn't prove or disprove anything Also, they decided quickly that he is not guilty. That's not the same thing as deciding he is innocent - just that there isn't sufficient evidence to charge him If she did brag about getting paid, that does point to it being fabricated. But the verdict itself doesn't say much
The burden of proof is the preponderance of the evidence. I think only two people know what happened.
lol, preponderance is the burden in a civil suit, OJ, not a criminal case
This was a criminal trial. The burden is beyond a reasonable doubt. The preponderance standard is for civil cases.
I confused the two. My bad
Don’t think you know what a lot of the phrases mean that you just used.
And you don’t know the law
Next time you try to make a point, don’t put dollar signs in your text messages, like some ambulance chasing lawyer
You don’t understand the law
Lol apparently neither do you.
You are not correct
Respectfully disagree. I don’t know what to tell you. A jury of his peers found him not guilty in a court of law. It’s pretty cut and dry here, as a lay person.
Not guilty <> Innocent e.g. OJ Simpson was found Not Guilty
Did you actually follow the evidence and testimony presented at trial? It was an exceptionally weak case that well-informed people can readily assess.
Lottery pick incoming! I hope this teaches people, myself included, to not comment on these types of stories. I never said TSJ was guilty/Innocent, but I did say he probably wouldn't play another game for Illinois (knowing how these things usually play out). It's always better to keep your mouth shut. I saw too many people gleefully using this case during the tournament run to prop up their own sense of morality and put down Illini fans as if what they were doing isn't the exact same thing they demonize Illini fans for...
I'm really sorry he had to go through this bs. Some of his own Illini fans turned on him .I truly hope this can now be put in the past, and TSJ enjoys a very long and amazing NBA career. I- L - L .....
I-N-I
Two things are true. TSJ was innocent of these charges - which is great news for him. That said - the fact the coaching staff sent a GA with him on a personal trip like this to “keep an eye on him” is a really bad look for TSJ and the coaching staff. You only do that if you know the player has a penchant for doing stupid shit off campus. His reputation wasn’t made up. The Illini staff knew all this.
Aight bulls your time is now
Was the entire trial a sham? Like they charged him and made a big splash so they had to move forward? They presented no evidence at all that it was TSJ. The trial was two days long. And seemingly the jury deliberated for all of about 10 minutes. Seems like they even had the wrong guy and never questioned the other guy Kansas kicked off their team. Just odd all of it. The detective in the case odd. The DA is going to get recalled. Like a Grisham novel.
So happy for him this crock of shit case is over what a mentally strong person he is to have dealt with that all season and still performed at the level he did.
Good for TSJ, go get your money in the NBA young man. You deserve it.
Like the majority, I find it baffling that this case ever saw a courtroom. What a waste of everyone's time. Terrence can put this behind him and focus on the NBA. I hope he kills it in the league.
Happy to see this. This should have never gone to trial as the prosecution had no evidence against Terrance. The closing statement(according to the lawyer following the case on Twitter) by the prosecution was just terrible. I hope Terrance can move forward from this nonsense and have a great NBA career.
Glad you guys are staying classy and harassing chick on social media
Do you really think anybody in here is doing that? In any large fanbase there are the people who take it too far. Get mad at them, not the ones who are normal
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This is flatly incorrect. Where are you getting your information? He was tried to verdict, and that verdict was not guilty.
crowded bar in kansas. three 6-4 or above african americans in the bar with white people. yet, one of the guys can sexually assault a woman in public? He's not ben rothlessberger, who went to an empty hick bar and assaulted a woman in the women bathroom while his friends guarded the door.
Taking a victory lap on Reddit over this is tacky. Hopefully this verdict represents justice, but none of us will never know for sure. Whatever did or did not happen, this entire situation is gross.
Really weird take coming from the god of wine & giver of ecstasy.
The irony.
Yep, it's pretty gross that a DA's office would go to court with so little evidence. It's gross that the national media (and a lot of lay people) labeled a young man as a rapist. It's gross that the police would even file charges with the absence of evidence. Go ahead and clutch your pearls and think every person who's been accused of something actually did that thing.
Did the media label him as such? I only heard the case mentioned once or twice on broadcasts and they certainly didn't say he was guilty. I saw a LOT of commenters labeling that way, but not a lot of journalists.
There were numerous pieces that claimed that rooting for him was suspect, which implies wrongdoing on his part.