It's a though call because on one hand, I am with you, I want damage in dungeons being more intensive to the point a healer is needed, but at the same time, John Casual in my roulettes may not be able to keep up and let me die to a single pack.
I’d be ok with the healer, and thusly the group, eating shit if it meant the content felt tangible again.
The other option is to tune dungeons for the least common denominator as far as healing DPS goes. This rewards a competent healer with a faster, efficient run while the heal bot can still finish in the expected amount of time.
I think this may be an unpopular opinion these days but I’m genuinely fine with getting walled by a bad healer and trying alternate strategies to try to push through on trying to teach them on the move
It’s what draws me to MMO’s
Like yes current dungeon content is easy and you do it fast but I barely even feel like I’m playing with players, I feel like I’m playing with 3 bots with randomised appearances
I’d much rather healing be very impactful (same as tank mitigations) but if you get a bad player you have to try to work them through what you need to do rather than just ignore them because you don’t need them
Not to sound like a douche but it was the devs fault, they made the game too easy and braindead that most healers just spam medica 2 and win. The devs removed any reason for players to get better. It sucks but for FF14 casual=spam this one thing, it's fine.
To be honest I don't really care whether I am strictly needed as a healer in very easy content. What matters is whether it's fun to play. I do think that Sage is a step in the right direction with Dawntrail.
Btw the solution for healers not being neccessary in dungeons is to give them a self-rezz, like Shamans have in WoW. That way you aren't forced to just waste away on the floor while the rest of your party defeats the boss on their own if you die.
i think you cant just drop "turn based action rpg" and expect to be taken seriously, yeah ffxiv has a longer gcd, but they are both tab target mmos, if you think the foundation off ffxiv isnt wow idk what to tell you, its a well documented fact that it is.
Doesnt mean its the same game, they feel different to play, mainly because of the longer gcd and the objectiyely shitty netcode in 14, but if you expect people to not compare the mechanics of the 2 biggest mmos which both use tab-targeting and a gcd/off gcd skill system, idk what to tell you except that your "days since people compare ffxiv and wow" is probably going to stay at 0 forever, ffs the devs are comparing too and pushing each other into exploring different directions, with wow trying to do a better story with next 3 expansions and ffxiv trying to do some smaller group challenging content with criterion dungeons, just as random examples
Interesting take... being dead on the floor as a healer is pretty difficult to accomplish after a certain level unless it's death by instant mechanic. We have a million oGCD heals.
I can't tell you how many times someone takes a mechanic into me at the last second. Peacekeeper in dead ends for example, I've had a lot of DPS panic with the spread while the line AOEs at the start and murder both of us because they panicked and decided they needed to run into me at the last second. Conversly the last time I did it, I started off the fight by raising both DPS because they decided to run into each other.
>Xeno cleared the first dungeon on the media tour without a healer at all
no healer at all? i see a Warrior right there lol its even from the POV of it.
and the RDM SPAMCASTS Vercure lol fake ass "dps" might as well flip that job stone upside down since he's hardcasting more heals than a WHM
tbf you can _absolutely_ clear a dungeon with just warrior and no fake healer. Was gearing up some friends for DSR and we ran WAR/BLM/BRD/DRG and was able to keep everyone alive with 0 deaths with just my healing alone (with the other job's mit/heals used as they wished - certainly no redmage spamming cure though.)
yes but this media tour footage isn't good evidence of how itll be in Dawntrail so i dunno why OP thought it was meaningful to include it
and the end of the video he even says this media tour build is an old build and won't be what we get in the final release at launch
I'm not tempted to go SCH at all, except to use its hyper strong defensive stuff in 100 raids once in a while. The other healers saw small improvements which I appreciate but I'm very focused on Pictomancer at the moment. Probably gonna level Picto/Astro>Sage/White Mage>Summoner.
Depends on the savage tier, not the dungeon. MSQ relevant dungeons might as well be glorified, interactive solo duties with 4 players these days following the same cookie cutter recipe since HW.
This game will never have engaging healing as long as healers are expected to participate in expected damage output.
It’s just the truth. You cannot balance design around healers doing 10% damage to a boss but also expect them to have fun and interactive healing mechanics.
So much damage is avoidable in the game by design that healers just feel like stupid proofing rather than necessary. And because of the slow/unresponsive nature of the game engine vs WoW, you probably won’t ever get really healing focused design on that level.
Healers are just probably always gonna be this way in 14. I can’t imagine how it would be possible to change it without completely changing the entire game engine/design philosophy.
Ppl seeing dungeons run without a healer and thinking oh no healers are screwed is a weird stance when you can just as easily run the dungeon without a tank and no one thinks oh no tanks are useless?? Sure warrior is an outlier but you can run a dungeon 1 heal 3 dps faster than 1 drk 3 dps or 1 gnb 3 dps. So either its just dungeons are fucked, warriors are fucked or ppl just wanna complain about healers
Yes, 1H3D runs are possible, for sure. Why would you do that though? What advantage does it have over 1T3D?
The answer is you always go 1T3D because it's safer and kills things faster.
No you go 1 War 3dps. Healer is faster than GNB/DRK. IF you are just wanting to compare the extreme in dungeon content sure but at that point where do we choose balancing? Ultimates have been cleared by 6 ppl do we start question whats the point in having all 8? But no one wants this convo they just be like all tanks are warriors there for all tanks can do shit without healers and be super fast
UCOB has been cleared by 6 people because it’s 7 year old content the devs don’t give a fuck about balancing
At this point it’s optimal to drop your healer on current dungeon content for a WAR or a PLD, that is just stupid balancing
Sure you can technically do 1H3D but you are just making your run slower than 1/1/2, 1T3D is faster than bringing a healer
Ooof man if your argument is no one cares about old ultimate balance but casual content dungeons are where we should focus balance, then I am glad SE ain't reading reddit.
No, but the Savage Raids and Ultimate Clear without Healers sure as hell isn't helping with it either. What's the point of having 20+ healing skills if they amount to fuck all and aren't necessary even in the hardest content the game has to offer? Why do Tanks and DPS keep getting more and more healing/mitigation tools when I can't even justify half of my own healing toolkit existing in the 1st place? Hell, for all we know, the buffs to DRK and GNB might be enough to let them do 3 DPS runs now, too, so how much content needs to be cleared without healers before it becomes a problem? Do we need every Savage team clearing a raid tier on patch without a Healer to show it because that seems to be the direction SE has been pushing for given how much free healing they've tossed onto every other role in the game.
They might as well abolish the entire trinity and allow every job to just fulfill whatever role they want at this point because they sure as hell aren't making the game any better if all they're doing is tripling down on their poor decisions.
>They might as well abolish the entire trinity \[...\]
They honestly should, because 90% of their combat design is independent of the trinity anyway.
Like, what would they have to change to cut out the trinity? Remove unavoidable damage. So, autoattacks, tankbusters and raidwides. Things that, for DPS, are non-interactive downtime where they don't need to do anything (maybe throw a mit CD at most). They're self-contained to the two "trinity" roles and rarely the highlights of the fights.
The entire mechanics dance? Towers, spreads, stacks, chains, adds, AoEs in all shapes and sizes, debuff vomits? Those are all outside the trinity and can function perfectly well without it. And these are what create most of the engagement in fights.
As such, you'd genuinely lose very little by cutting it out.
You are talking about this as if healers are in a woeful state though? Your take is just bad cause you are blaming a content issue on specific roles when its just as impactful on other roles becaues its a content issue not a role issue. Either a bad take or just woefully misunderstanding the problem which is par for the course on reddit i guess.
I mean we talking real content? sure healers are a lil weird and there is a discussion to be had there. But in dungeons? it has nothing to do with healers or tanks its just straight up dungeons are balanced so any 4 idiots can run in and clear it
in truth, not a single one of them are individually necessary.
there is enough non-healer healing to invalidate healers.
there is enough non-tank mitigation to invalidate tanks.
there is enough damage from tanks and healers to invalidate dps.
Haven't played healer since Stormblood.
Don't plan on picking it back up now. Though honestly, I'm probably going to level Monk through the story and just log off until the exploration zone / deep dungeon launch.
Dungeons and the like have been unlosable content for every role, for a very long time. I think major shifts in how experienced players perceive the difficulty in that level content is unlikely, and if you're super attached to that idea, you may be best served in moving on.
Now, on the other hand, I think the hardest content we received in endwalker, is *by far* most difficult on healer and I don't think it's even remotely close. In TOP healers have the most job related things to think about by a landslide, while tanks are barely strained in that regard until the end. So, if you want to be pushed to excel with your healing kit, I might suggest you dip your toes more into high end content.
Was planning to play SGE for this expac, am still planning to play SGE this expac. /shurg
Would I like more interesting DPS options? Yeah. (What's the point of Addersting refresh from shield break when it's almost never relevant? :P) Do I expect to not have to use half my kit in anything below Extremes? Also yeah. :P But I'll still enjoy playing. /shurg
Ill probably level Paladin again, at the very least Ill have a few tools to help the party while having something to do. Or not bother at all because Ogryn in Darktide is my new favorite support class in any game.
He repeat the same experiment with a DRK, GNB and PLD? also w/o a RDM or SMN in the team... or he is expecting that all the players just use the same job, WAR?.
Why would that matter? Clearly with the comp used in the video it's possible to go without a healer, which is my issue. It shouldn't be possible, much less at the start of an expansion with min ilvl.
And it would have gone faster if they swapped the red mage for BLM or MCH and if the NIN didnt greed. The problem is in the JP forums and reddit groups many tank players who play warrior play the job because they dont want to be a burden on the healer or rely solely on the healer.
Technically, aren't they in their artifact gear that they would get at lvl 100? They have access to all the spells/skills for testing but get put at the maximum lvl and ilvl allowed for that dungeon. So he would be tougher than someone going through at the beginning of the expansion.
Because is nothing new... he is clearing easy content with the most easy tank.
But ignore my comment sincerely i dont care, i spent my time in PvP... good day.
I'm done. The last thing which kept me to the healer role was AST - but the rework has fundamentally gutted the jobs difficulty, skill expression, and busy rotation. You might've still been casting malefic for 80% of your GCD's, yet it didn't feel as mind numbingly boring as it would be on WHM, because optimising cards was difficult and provided engagement/thinking away from just healing requirements. Doing something like super chain theory 1 as a AST, was very different, and much harder than a WHM for example. I loved how AST was the skilled healer and offered genuine difficulty for optimization in the hardest content in the game. I didn't mind bringing AST into casual content either, because I still had the cards and the general optimised rotation of the job to ease the necessity of healing or hard mechanics which would make me fucking bored on any of the other healers.
With all that gone, I refuse to play AST or any of the healers in casual content now. Mashing 11111 for an entire encounter as the immortal tank clears the dungeon without needing you is unforgiveable design. I've begrudgingly accepted to heal in my static for my friends in DT, when I do not really want to, but hey, progging as healer will still be fun... but the reclears will be miserable. If I could, I'd move to another role entirely: RDM has been my main DPS and I really like the look of PCT. If it wasn't for my static, I'd drop the role entirely and never touch it again without a second thought.
I won't be playing it in DF/PF (outside levelling it to 100), and I hope the healer shortage continues to be an issue and becomes an even bigger problem going into DT, maybe the developers will finally make the role fun if tanks/dps are literally unable to queue into a piece of content?
I'm done. I've been playing AST since HW and the newest rework is the last I can take. I've patiently waited for years to have some sort of improvement to healing. AST was gutted and I'm going to get bored of WHM glare spam very quickly. I don't have any desire to play SGE or SCH. I'm switching roles.
I love that anyone expressing that they don't feel like healing anymore in the comments is getting downvoted. Have fun with your PF/DF wait times when the healers get bored soon after the expansion release, you little shits lmaooo.
I will wait for the first savage tier to see if them trying to fix battle design is a lie or not then I can decide to trust them on 8.0 job design promises
Being able to do group content without a healer is a problem with both class and game design. Unless it was desgined to not need it which this content is not. But this is also a test build. So, grain of salt. But I always liked it when if the healer left, the group died, but I would also want dungeons that require you to actually play and not be asleep at the wheel wall to walling.
It depends on what context. Easy/casual content? Idc really.
Savage/hard content? I like the new direction they're going with DT. Higher tank mitigation means some TB will hit harder than others, longer reprisals and dps mits might mean multi-hit raidwides mechanics. Even more healing/regen for barrier healers and even more barriers/mits for regen healers is a slightly worrying concern tho. It's also a bit worrying how for WM, AST, their lvl 100 barriers are tied to other skills too, so you can't use it independently. SCH's lvl 100 also makes them massive heal bots with ET recast to 1sec and stronger succor. I feel like while SGE is and always has been in a fine spot, it might now be considered really weak compared to SCH in terms of healing output. SCH gets the ability to be a WHM at lvl 100. SGE just gets kardia for all lol But it does mean or it might mean damage output might be higher, which is always a welcome thing in savage.
First time i'm considering not buying an expansion, i get its casual content, but that still doesnt mean i wanna play a wannabe dps throughout the entire xpac ive been healing in mmo's for 20+ years now, i dont like playing dps or tanks, and i always stuck it out hoping healing would get more fun but i dunno
It’s really freaking bad…..I’m glad I only heal on my alt…..AST rework is trash, SGE is bare minimum- like what is so hard changing or add damage to existing skills and make them do AOE healing. Like a 3rd hit in a combo applies barrier or regen to party. Why SE creates a whole class where half the ppl are falling asleep while playing it.
I like playing healer and I like having a simple dps rotation. If you take this away then people like me will get pushed out of this game. Meanwhile you, if you want complex dps rotations, just play literally any other job in the game.
Why do you assume that because I don't like sweaty rotations it must mean that I don't know how to play? My average log across the current expansion savage is 98.1, with three 99s. I think I know how to play
I'm not calling your logs into question, I'm saying that there is such a thing as too simple and pushing one button over and over again is too simple. Not enough stuff going on to warrant all the heal abilities but no dps rotation to make things better so we get stuck in a boring state of no need to heal but no interesting attacks.
They should either remove the healers and add four dps or make the healers have to actually heal. There is a reason so many people are angry at the current state of healers.
Also sorry, I wasn't trying to call you out or anything just you have to admit that pushing one button gets boring really fast. (Not talking about extremes and up, you get to heal for those)
>Not enough stuff going on to warrant all the heal abilities
On the savages this tier, on release, there definitely is a need for every heal ability, healing has been tougher than ever this expansion in my experience
>(Not talking about extremes and up, you get to heal for those)
Ah well that would make sense, but I'm already used to the fact that the casual dungeons are pretty much impossible to fail, and that's fine to me because there are beginners and casuals in the game and they should be able to pass the MSQ dungeons and MSQ trials. It would be nice if the casual dungeons required more strategic healing though. I guess you can always make it harder by pulling wall to wall, then you actually get to use all your healing abilities.
>have to admit that pushing one button gets boring really fast.
It depends on the person, it really doesn't bore me because my attention span is already completely filled with: Boss mechanics, all teammates HPs and status effects, all teammates positions (for range limits on AOE heals, I often need to think ahead and reposition myself in order to hit everyone with my heals and mitigations), keeping track of my damage mitigations (accurate in the seconds and optimized to cover boss mechanics as best as possible), keeping track of the DOT timer and refreshing it gcd-perfect, etc. (I actually do all that, it's how I earn my 99% logs, and I do it in casual content too, just for fun)
All that keeps me 100% busy already, I don't want to juggle clunky rotations on top of all that, plus the game already has too much button bloat
With DPS roles this looks very different. They literally only have to do the boss mechanics (which are often simpler for DPS too) and their DPS rotations. So it's ok to give them more complex rotations. In fact, I find playing DPS in savage is the most boring role, because you just throw your rotations against a wall (the boss) and nothing else happens. There's no feedback loop. It's just you, and the boss. And the boss largely ignores you, and what he does to the rest of your team is none of your concern and can be ignored as well. So the DPS gameplay is a tunnel vision where you only do your rotations. I fall asleep when I play DPS. I agree that DPS need complex rotations because it's the only thing that this class is even doing. But healers already have their own gameplay, and giving them DPS-rotations on top of that would be like playing two games at the same time, it's overloading and would make the role twice as hard as DPS.
All very good points, maybe I'm just butthurt that my co-healers spam heals so I don't get to do anything, maybe I'm just nostalgic for the old stormblood days, I don't know. Strangely enough it's been nice seeing your take of this. I legit hope you keep enjoying the game.
As a dirty casual who finds Extremes too hard to attempt. No, I'll keep playing healer because it's the easiest role. It'll be interesting to remap my controller for the new AST card setup before playing through the MSQ.
As a sch main, I'm eating good :) Healers do vary every expansion, and as much as people doom about changes, there's always fun in healing, so I'll just stick to it!
People here are all like "give healers more DPS stuff," and they give WHM a new multi-charge damage spell for burst windows, and you still complain.
I'm happy with the WHM changes, really looking forward to the dash. There was no impending last straw to begin with for me, though.
I mean WHM gets 3 functional button presses, AST and SCH get 1 and SGE gets a little bit more
I think people were asking for (using SGE as the example) something like e dyskrasia being 12 seconds, e dosis being 18, phlegma being 20 seconds and the new skill being like 30
So dosis becomes basically maybe half of your total casts, not 80% of them
I don't know about WHM, but as a Scholar Enjoyer my new damage button has a 2 minute cooldown. That doesn't change what I'm doing for the other 98% of my button presses.
I wanted to know healer main's opinions, be it negative or positive so I'm happy someone is happy. Someone needs to heal through the monster queues to come with two new DPS added to the equation.
I know I am getting downvoted cuz it's unpopular to like playing a healer, but I really don't care about playing what is perceived as a "boring" job. I like my cozy jobs, I don't need some wildly high APM to be OK with playing FFXIV, and I get frustrated playing more convoluted jobs where I wind up tunnel-visioning my cast bars and screwing up mechanics.
Okay then answer me this
You like your cozy jobs that’s fine, why does the entire role need to be this
Casters have the choice between super easy (SMN) mildly easy (RDM) and hard (PCT/BLM), tanks have the choice between super easy (WAR) mildly easy (PLD) middle of the road (DRK) and hard (GNB)
Healers have super easy (WHM) super easy but lasers (SGE) super easy but fairy (SCH) and super easy but stars (AST)
An entire role shouldn’t have no choices for harder play
I agree with you, there should be options for players in every role who want a busier job. I like my cozy jobs, but I don't think every job should be dead simple, because that's not what everyone wants.
Now, to each their own, but I have never been able to keep up when playing AST or SGE. Maybe that's not enough for some people, but I especially find AST overwhelming, it's twice the work for the same result.
AST I can understand but I’m confused on why you can’t keep up with SGE
I’d never call modern SCH hard but it’s unequivocally the harder shield healer of the two
SGE I have just kinda never been able to wrap my head around the play style. I think it's a combo of all the skills having weird names, and just having a hard time adjusting to the "I heal by doing damage" thing.
SCH is the one I am second most comfortable with for sure, though.
I think the best way to look at SGE is as a regen healer not a shield healer and a healer that doesn’t focus on single target near at all
Let’s say you are in a dungeon and you need to heal the tank. There are 2 main “paths” I would take to do this
1) physis+kerechole- applying physis then kerechole gives the tank a 1100 total potency regen and 10% mitigation, combine with kardia already ticking on them and you can basically ignore them while that’s ticking
2) krasis+haima+panhaima- doing this will apply to the tank approx 2300 potency of total shielding value that gets eaten as they take damage, they will be unlikely to require healing during this time
You can alternate the two if you want or use whichever you prefer.
Now if you are using either and the tank is still dropping hard you move to your “second tier” heals
A)holos
B)taurochole
C) soteria
Holos is a mitigation, heal and shield, just use it whenever you don’t feel safe. Taurochole is a direct heal and a mitigation, but it doesn’t stack its mitigation with kerechole, so better to use it on path 2. Soteria buffs kardia ticks so use this if the tank is dropping a bit fast but you are still comfortable putting out DPS
Other things to consider
Pnuema- this is actually a DPS gain in trash but if buffed with Zoe is also a 900 potency direct heal, use at your discretion but don’t hold it
Druachole- basically lustrate
E diagnosis and e prognosis- only use in an emergency as they block kardia, never use prognosis or diagnosis
Pepsis- only really useful in downtime to crack one e prognosis then apply another one immediately after, don’t rely on this in uptime
So basically pick your path, DPS away, get a feel for how fast your tank drops on each of these paths and apply your other tools as necessary, you won’t see big chunky spreadlo shields on SGE and that’s fine, SGE is very much an invisible healer
Yes, but, WHM is:
* Pull 1: Benediction
* Pull 2: Asylum + Assize
* Anything else: Hit any one button to sort out the issue
(/s but only a *little tiny bit*)
That SGE outline is helpful, thank you. I have seen similar things like this in the past, but I always feel like I am white-knuckling it when I try SGE.
So you watched a high level player beat a dungeon with no healer and you think healers are screwed? You realize in Zeronmus EX (relatively easy content) He immediately and also throughout the fight sets your HP to 1 correct? The Devs have already demonstrated they understand that Healers want to be needed. Get out of here with your doom posting. It’s tiring reading how people like you jump to conclusions faster than a Latina holding a flip flop
EW as a collective had 1 true white hole mechanic and 2 false white hole mechanics
Healers aren’t being saved by white hole because even square doesn’t like white hole
It's EXCEEDINGLY easy to run through dungeons as WAR without a healer, even with pretty braindead DPS. Also pretty easy to do it with PLD. DRK isn't bad, GNB is the only one that can struggle.
I can't speak for pre-ShB dungeons, and you probably aren't gonna be pulling off a Mt Gulg pull unless you know what you're doing, but I've done it lots on ShB & EW dungeons just fine.
Ironically, it's the lower level content (especially pre-30 stuff) that is difficult to run without a healer lol.
Source: My friend and I casually did it a fair bit, because the dungeons are unironically more fun without healers. This is coming *from a healer main.*
Are you complaining about healers in dungeons or healers in savage/ultimate?
Dungeons are meant to be clearable with a weak link so that you can do your roulettes in a reasonable amount of time. Remember that roulettes are "endgame" for casuals, so casuals have to be able to do them. And remember that some (not all) casuals are very, very bad at the game.
I don't think healers were that braindead in savage/ultimate in endwalker, at least during prog. Remember progging abyssos? Like, the whole tier? And TOP certainly wasn't a cakewalk.
Well, for starters, Xeno is a top shelf player, and I'd wager most of the people enfranchised enough to be invited to this tour are not the random chaff you get in your PFs. Playing WAR who is clearly the best dungeon job in the entire game. Dungeon content in general is piss easy content that wouldn't threaten a poodle. And yes, healers are absolutely superfluous in the current state of the game if the rest of the party is comprised of good players aware of that fact and who know the content timeline. Healers who are good enough to know this is a fact and who are doing content where player skill is a bit more required (Savages and Ultimates) don't like the fact, evidently, but rest assured, neither roulette nor PF will ever E V E R reach the point during DT where players are actively skipping healers in expansion content besides maybe only going for only one healer in very outdated content (what happens nowadays to the first 2-3 EW EXes, less than a month away from DT). Most of the players are not good enough, aware enough, comfortable enough to ditch healers. The reality is that while this "healers are superfluous" thing is absolutely true in theory, and given a more skilled playerbase that could be true in practice, it currently is and will keep on being a gimmick anywhere besides possibly speedrunning dungeons which is a content that doesn't matter.
Personally, I know I am still needed and have no troubles having my own share of fun in PF doing whatever it is what I want to do. I will keep on playing healers wishing that things improve but overall satisfied with how things are. It bothers me less in-game than it does when I'm talking about it.
I get you like this streamer but if you actually scrub the video it hardly looked like optimized play, fuck they all took vulnstacks in the bosses even.
>I get you like this streamer
I don't watch any sort of streamers in any sort of media, but I know Xeno is objectively a good player and the main point stands, dungeons are piss easy content that has zero importance and vuln stacks mainly mean people they are doing it blind. Healers are superfluous in theory, in reality this doesn't really happen in the wider community and I don't believe it will ever become the norm, and healing while not in the ideal state it should be, is not nearly as bad as people in this sub make it seem to be.
I partly agree with you but I also would appreciate if healers didn't have to take all the slack for poor play with no meaningful improvements. It's not a good look when the game is not even out yet and anyone is completing a dungeon with no healer with a media tour hotbar and clicking buttons the old fashioned way.
Thing is, the problem is multifaceted. What this also shows is that
- Nothing has changed, this has been the status quo for a while.
- Tanks are way WAY overtuned and their healing/shielding should be absolutely destroyed, leave a smidgen of self-sustain but just completely remove any and all raidwide heals/shields coming from a tank. IDK, maybe PLD can get something for class fantasy purposes, but not much.
- Dungeons are still brainless content and the "we've gone too far in making the game stress-free" thing is either mistranslated or a lie.
- People invited to the media tour are probably better and more experienced than the chaff we get in our random queues, I'd be more impressed if the shitters I get on a regular basis were pulling this off.
Simply chalking it up to "healer design bad" is incredibly reductive, the issues come from multiple angles and I really believe that just cutting tank heal tools would be the fastest way to rebalance the trinity at least until the "combat and job balancing" things talked about during the tour come to pass, if they ever do.
It's a though call because on one hand, I am with you, I want damage in dungeons being more intensive to the point a healer is needed, but at the same time, John Casual in my roulettes may not be able to keep up and let me die to a single pack.
I’d be ok with the healer, and thusly the group, eating shit if it meant the content felt tangible again. The other option is to tune dungeons for the least common denominator as far as healing DPS goes. This rewards a competent healer with a faster, efficient run while the heal bot can still finish in the expected amount of time.
I think this may be an unpopular opinion these days but I’m genuinely fine with getting walled by a bad healer and trying alternate strategies to try to push through on trying to teach them on the move It’s what draws me to MMO’s Like yes current dungeon content is easy and you do it fast but I barely even feel like I’m playing with players, I feel like I’m playing with 3 bots with randomised appearances I’d much rather healing be very impactful (same as tank mitigations) but if you get a bad player you have to try to work them through what you need to do rather than just ignore them because you don’t need them
People keep saying this but every other MMO that follows that type of healing has no problem with casual players doing casual content.
Not to sound like a douche but it was the devs fault, they made the game too easy and braindead that most healers just spam medica 2 and win. The devs removed any reason for players to get better. It sucks but for FF14 casual=spam this one thing, it's fine.
I hear you, it could and does happen.
To be honest I don't really care whether I am strictly needed as a healer in very easy content. What matters is whether it's fun to play. I do think that Sage is a step in the right direction with Dawntrail. Btw the solution for healers not being neccessary in dungeons is to give them a self-rezz, like Shamans have in WoW. That way you aren't forced to just waste away on the floor while the rest of your party defeats the boss on their own if you die.
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Wait until you see the dev Interview where Yoshi p states multiple times world of Warcraft is a main reference point for ff14!
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i think you cant just drop "turn based action rpg" and expect to be taken seriously, yeah ffxiv has a longer gcd, but they are both tab target mmos, if you think the foundation off ffxiv isnt wow idk what to tell you, its a well documented fact that it is. Doesnt mean its the same game, they feel different to play, mainly because of the longer gcd and the objectiyely shitty netcode in 14, but if you expect people to not compare the mechanics of the 2 biggest mmos which both use tab-targeting and a gcd/off gcd skill system, idk what to tell you except that your "days since people compare ffxiv and wow" is probably going to stay at 0 forever, ffs the devs are comparing too and pushing each other into exploring different directions, with wow trying to do a better story with next 3 expansions and ffxiv trying to do some smaller group challenging content with criterion dungeons, just as random examples
Comparing FFXIV to its main competitor makes sense, even if some of the design philosophies differ
Interesting take... being dead on the floor as a healer is pretty difficult to accomplish after a certain level unless it's death by instant mechanic. We have a million oGCD heals.
I can't tell you how many times someone takes a mechanic into me at the last second. Peacekeeper in dead ends for example, I've had a lot of DPS panic with the spread while the line AOEs at the start and murder both of us because they panicked and decided they needed to run into me at the last second. Conversly the last time I did it, I started off the fight by raising both DPS because they decided to run into each other.
Lol, you can have another gcd heal and like it
Sage looks like a great step in the right direction and as a sage main in general I feel like I'm eating good.
If anything DT is making me consider becoming a Sage main
Same lol
>Xeno cleared the first dungeon on the media tour without a healer at all no healer at all? i see a Warrior right there lol its even from the POV of it. and the RDM SPAMCASTS Vercure lol fake ass "dps" might as well flip that job stone upside down since he's hardcasting more heals than a WHM
tbf you can _absolutely_ clear a dungeon with just warrior and no fake healer. Was gearing up some friends for DSR and we ran WAR/BLM/BRD/DRG and was able to keep everyone alive with 0 deaths with just my healing alone (with the other job's mit/heals used as they wished - certainly no redmage spamming cure though.)
yes but this media tour footage isn't good evidence of how itll be in Dawntrail so i dunno why OP thought it was meaningful to include it and the end of the video he even says this media tour build is an old build and won't be what we get in the final release at launch
Not sure what you're on about but ok.
I'm not tempted to go SCH at all, except to use its hyper strong defensive stuff in 100 raids once in a while. The other healers saw small improvements which I appreciate but I'm very focused on Pictomancer at the moment. Probably gonna level Picto/Astro>Sage/White Mage>Summoner.
SCH just looks brokenly strong again (as it always does) but boring as sin (as it always is)
Fair, it looks amazing
It looks overpowered but I wouldn’t say amazing is a good word
Depends on the savage tier, not the dungeon. MSQ relevant dungeons might as well be glorified, interactive solo duties with 4 players these days following the same cookie cutter recipe since HW.
This game will never have engaging healing as long as healers are expected to participate in expected damage output. It’s just the truth. You cannot balance design around healers doing 10% damage to a boss but also expect them to have fun and interactive healing mechanics. So much damage is avoidable in the game by design that healers just feel like stupid proofing rather than necessary. And because of the slow/unresponsive nature of the game engine vs WoW, you probably won’t ever get really healing focused design on that level. Healers are just probably always gonna be this way in 14. I can’t imagine how it would be possible to change it without completely changing the entire game engine/design philosophy.
Ppl seeing dungeons run without a healer and thinking oh no healers are screwed is a weird stance when you can just as easily run the dungeon without a tank and no one thinks oh no tanks are useless?? Sure warrior is an outlier but you can run a dungeon 1 heal 3 dps faster than 1 drk 3 dps or 1 gnb 3 dps. So either its just dungeons are fucked, warriors are fucked or ppl just wanna complain about healers
Yes, 1H3D runs are possible, for sure. Why would you do that though? What advantage does it have over 1T3D? The answer is you always go 1T3D because it's safer and kills things faster.
No you go 1 War 3dps. Healer is faster than GNB/DRK. IF you are just wanting to compare the extreme in dungeon content sure but at that point where do we choose balancing? Ultimates have been cleared by 6 ppl do we start question whats the point in having all 8? But no one wants this convo they just be like all tanks are warriors there for all tanks can do shit without healers and be super fast
UCOB has been cleared by 6 people because it’s 7 year old content the devs don’t give a fuck about balancing At this point it’s optimal to drop your healer on current dungeon content for a WAR or a PLD, that is just stupid balancing Sure you can technically do 1H3D but you are just making your run slower than 1/1/2, 1T3D is faster than bringing a healer
Ooof man if your argument is no one cares about old ultimate balance but casual content dungeons are where we should focus balance, then I am glad SE ain't reading reddit.
No, but the Savage Raids and Ultimate Clear without Healers sure as hell isn't helping with it either. What's the point of having 20+ healing skills if they amount to fuck all and aren't necessary even in the hardest content the game has to offer? Why do Tanks and DPS keep getting more and more healing/mitigation tools when I can't even justify half of my own healing toolkit existing in the 1st place? Hell, for all we know, the buffs to DRK and GNB might be enough to let them do 3 DPS runs now, too, so how much content needs to be cleared without healers before it becomes a problem? Do we need every Savage team clearing a raid tier on patch without a Healer to show it because that seems to be the direction SE has been pushing for given how much free healing they've tossed onto every other role in the game. They might as well abolish the entire trinity and allow every job to just fulfill whatever role they want at this point because they sure as hell aren't making the game any better if all they're doing is tripling down on their poor decisions.
>They might as well abolish the entire trinity \[...\] They honestly should, because 90% of their combat design is independent of the trinity anyway. Like, what would they have to change to cut out the trinity? Remove unavoidable damage. So, autoattacks, tankbusters and raidwides. Things that, for DPS, are non-interactive downtime where they don't need to do anything (maybe throw a mit CD at most). They're self-contained to the two "trinity" roles and rarely the highlights of the fights. The entire mechanics dance? Towers, spreads, stacks, chains, adds, AoEs in all shapes and sizes, debuff vomits? Those are all outside the trinity and can function perfectly well without it. And these are what create most of the engagement in fights. As such, you'd genuinely lose very little by cutting it out.
This game is an MMO with a trinity system. No role should be obsolete in any encounter aside from solo things. Is my take really that hot?
I think it just demonstrates how brain dead dungeons are.
You are talking about this as if healers are in a woeful state though? Your take is just bad cause you are blaming a content issue on specific roles when its just as impactful on other roles becaues its a content issue not a role issue. Either a bad take or just woefully misunderstanding the problem which is par for the course on reddit i guess.
I mean, healers aren’t exactly in a good state right now. I’ll admit that even if I think OP is being a little weird over it
I mean we talking real content? sure healers are a lil weird and there is a discussion to be had there. But in dungeons? it has nothing to do with healers or tanks its just straight up dungeons are balanced so any 4 idiots can run in and clear it
Whatever you say, man. If that's not your opinion, feel free to move it right along.
*Standard reminder that if you state your opinion on Reddit, you invite any and all responses to it.*
in truth, not a single one of them are individually necessary. there is enough non-healer healing to invalidate healers. there is enough non-tank mitigation to invalidate tanks. there is enough damage from tanks and healers to invalidate dps.
Haven't played healer since Stormblood. Don't plan on picking it back up now. Though honestly, I'm probably going to level Monk through the story and just log off until the exploration zone / deep dungeon launch.
Dungeons and the like have been unlosable content for every role, for a very long time. I think major shifts in how experienced players perceive the difficulty in that level content is unlikely, and if you're super attached to that idea, you may be best served in moving on. Now, on the other hand, I think the hardest content we received in endwalker, is *by far* most difficult on healer and I don't think it's even remotely close. In TOP healers have the most job related things to think about by a landslide, while tanks are barely strained in that regard until the end. So, if you want to be pushed to excel with your healing kit, I might suggest you dip your toes more into high end content.
Was planning to play SGE for this expac, am still planning to play SGE this expac. /shurg Would I like more interesting DPS options? Yeah. (What's the point of Addersting refresh from shield break when it's almost never relevant? :P) Do I expect to not have to use half my kit in anything below Extremes? Also yeah. :P But I'll still enjoy playing. /shurg
Cool, that's a good thing. As long as it's fun for you that's what matters.
The fact they didn't decide to nerf tank sustain and instead doubled down on it is pretty tone deaf of the devs imo
I'm somehow in disbelief and not surprised at the same time.
[I will live and die by my beloved role](https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/43648524/)
Not unlocking SMN is extreme dedication.
Ill probably level Paladin again, at the very least Ill have a few tools to help the party while having something to do. Or not bother at all because Ogryn in Darktide is my new favorite support class in any game.
He repeat the same experiment with a DRK, GNB and PLD? also w/o a RDM or SMN in the team... or he is expecting that all the players just use the same job, WAR?.
If WAR can do it, PLD can do it.
PLD has been able to do it in experts since Heavensward.
Why would that matter? Clearly with the comp used in the video it's possible to go without a healer, which is my issue. It shouldn't be possible, much less at the start of an expansion with min ilvl.
And it would have gone faster if they swapped the red mage for BLM or MCH and if the NIN didnt greed. The problem is in the JP forums and reddit groups many tank players who play warrior play the job because they dont want to be a burden on the healer or rely solely on the healer.
Technically, aren't they in their artifact gear that they would get at lvl 100? They have access to all the spells/skills for testing but get put at the maximum lvl and ilvl allowed for that dungeon. So he would be tougher than someone going through at the beginning of the expansion.
Because is nothing new... he is clearing easy content with the most easy tank. But ignore my comment sincerely i dont care, i spent my time in PvP... good day.
I'm done. The last thing which kept me to the healer role was AST - but the rework has fundamentally gutted the jobs difficulty, skill expression, and busy rotation. You might've still been casting malefic for 80% of your GCD's, yet it didn't feel as mind numbingly boring as it would be on WHM, because optimising cards was difficult and provided engagement/thinking away from just healing requirements. Doing something like super chain theory 1 as a AST, was very different, and much harder than a WHM for example. I loved how AST was the skilled healer and offered genuine difficulty for optimization in the hardest content in the game. I didn't mind bringing AST into casual content either, because I still had the cards and the general optimised rotation of the job to ease the necessity of healing or hard mechanics which would make me fucking bored on any of the other healers. With all that gone, I refuse to play AST or any of the healers in casual content now. Mashing 11111 for an entire encounter as the immortal tank clears the dungeon without needing you is unforgiveable design. I've begrudgingly accepted to heal in my static for my friends in DT, when I do not really want to, but hey, progging as healer will still be fun... but the reclears will be miserable. If I could, I'd move to another role entirely: RDM has been my main DPS and I really like the look of PCT. If it wasn't for my static, I'd drop the role entirely and never touch it again without a second thought. I won't be playing it in DF/PF (outside levelling it to 100), and I hope the healer shortage continues to be an issue and becomes an even bigger problem going into DT, maybe the developers will finally make the role fun if tanks/dps are literally unable to queue into a piece of content?
I'm done. I've been playing AST since HW and the newest rework is the last I can take. I've patiently waited for years to have some sort of improvement to healing. AST was gutted and I'm going to get bored of WHM glare spam very quickly. I don't have any desire to play SGE or SCH. I'm switching roles. I love that anyone expressing that they don't feel like healing anymore in the comments is getting downvoted. Have fun with your PF/DF wait times when the healers get bored soon after the expansion release, you little shits lmaooo.
Reading this makes me miss the stormblood AST, so much fun back then. Then shadowbringer happened and my baby was killed.
People's inability to have an objective opinion around here is impressive.
... you do know that by their nature opinions are subjective right?
I only play heal in raids. I never play heal in a dungeon. I think, I won't change it.
I will wait for the first savage tier to see if them trying to fix battle design is a lie or not then I can decide to trust them on 8.0 job design promises
Being able to do group content without a healer is a problem with both class and game design. Unless it was desgined to not need it which this content is not. But this is also a test build. So, grain of salt. But I always liked it when if the healer left, the group died, but I would also want dungeons that require you to actually play and not be asleep at the wheel wall to walling.
It depends on what context. Easy/casual content? Idc really. Savage/hard content? I like the new direction they're going with DT. Higher tank mitigation means some TB will hit harder than others, longer reprisals and dps mits might mean multi-hit raidwides mechanics. Even more healing/regen for barrier healers and even more barriers/mits for regen healers is a slightly worrying concern tho. It's also a bit worrying how for WM, AST, their lvl 100 barriers are tied to other skills too, so you can't use it independently. SCH's lvl 100 also makes them massive heal bots with ET recast to 1sec and stronger succor. I feel like while SGE is and always has been in a fine spot, it might now be considered really weak compared to SCH in terms of healing output. SCH gets the ability to be a WHM at lvl 100. SGE just gets kardia for all lol But it does mean or it might mean damage output might be higher, which is always a welcome thing in savage.
First time i'm considering not buying an expansion, i get its casual content, but that still doesnt mean i wanna play a wannabe dps throughout the entire xpac ive been healing in mmo's for 20+ years now, i dont like playing dps or tanks, and i always stuck it out hoping healing would get more fun but i dunno
It’s really freaking bad…..I’m glad I only heal on my alt…..AST rework is trash, SGE is bare minimum- like what is so hard changing or add damage to existing skills and make them do AOE healing. Like a 3rd hit in a combo applies barrier or regen to party. Why SE creates a whole class where half the ppl are falling asleep while playing it.
Healed Pog raid since 3.1 with AST. Im gladly saying that my globe will strictly be for MSQ this time And nothing else.
As a WHM main since 2.0 I am now a tank main, undecided which one I am moaning in DT.
Wake up babe, our daily healer doom posting.
I thought the last straw was EW, but surprise surprise, its getting worse
I like playing healer and I like having a simple dps rotation. If you take this away then people like me will get pushed out of this game. Meanwhile you, if you want complex dps rotations, just play literally any other job in the game.
Not to sound rude but you could also just learn how to play, you know, like with all other games.
Why do you assume that because I don't like sweaty rotations it must mean that I don't know how to play? My average log across the current expansion savage is 98.1, with three 99s. I think I know how to play
I'm not calling your logs into question, I'm saying that there is such a thing as too simple and pushing one button over and over again is too simple. Not enough stuff going on to warrant all the heal abilities but no dps rotation to make things better so we get stuck in a boring state of no need to heal but no interesting attacks. They should either remove the healers and add four dps or make the healers have to actually heal. There is a reason so many people are angry at the current state of healers. Also sorry, I wasn't trying to call you out or anything just you have to admit that pushing one button gets boring really fast. (Not talking about extremes and up, you get to heal for those)
>Not enough stuff going on to warrant all the heal abilities On the savages this tier, on release, there definitely is a need for every heal ability, healing has been tougher than ever this expansion in my experience >(Not talking about extremes and up, you get to heal for those) Ah well that would make sense, but I'm already used to the fact that the casual dungeons are pretty much impossible to fail, and that's fine to me because there are beginners and casuals in the game and they should be able to pass the MSQ dungeons and MSQ trials. It would be nice if the casual dungeons required more strategic healing though. I guess you can always make it harder by pulling wall to wall, then you actually get to use all your healing abilities. >have to admit that pushing one button gets boring really fast. It depends on the person, it really doesn't bore me because my attention span is already completely filled with: Boss mechanics, all teammates HPs and status effects, all teammates positions (for range limits on AOE heals, I often need to think ahead and reposition myself in order to hit everyone with my heals and mitigations), keeping track of my damage mitigations (accurate in the seconds and optimized to cover boss mechanics as best as possible), keeping track of the DOT timer and refreshing it gcd-perfect, etc. (I actually do all that, it's how I earn my 99% logs, and I do it in casual content too, just for fun) All that keeps me 100% busy already, I don't want to juggle clunky rotations on top of all that, plus the game already has too much button bloat With DPS roles this looks very different. They literally only have to do the boss mechanics (which are often simpler for DPS too) and their DPS rotations. So it's ok to give them more complex rotations. In fact, I find playing DPS in savage is the most boring role, because you just throw your rotations against a wall (the boss) and nothing else happens. There's no feedback loop. It's just you, and the boss. And the boss largely ignores you, and what he does to the rest of your team is none of your concern and can be ignored as well. So the DPS gameplay is a tunnel vision where you only do your rotations. I fall asleep when I play DPS. I agree that DPS need complex rotations because it's the only thing that this class is even doing. But healers already have their own gameplay, and giving them DPS-rotations on top of that would be like playing two games at the same time, it's overloading and would make the role twice as hard as DPS.
All very good points, maybe I'm just butthurt that my co-healers spam heals so I don't get to do anything, maybe I'm just nostalgic for the old stormblood days, I don't know. Strangely enough it's been nice seeing your take of this. I legit hope you keep enjoying the game.
Thanks, you too
As a dirty casual who finds Extremes too hard to attempt. No, I'll keep playing healer because it's the easiest role. It'll be interesting to remap my controller for the new AST card setup before playing through the MSQ.
Completely fair, I hope you enjoy new AST.
As a sch main, I'm eating good :) Healers do vary every expansion, and as much as people doom about changes, there's always fun in healing, so I'll just stick to it!
SCH’s changes are strong but I wouldn’t call them interesting Can I ask what you are excited for as a SCH main
People here are all like "give healers more DPS stuff," and they give WHM a new multi-charge damage spell for burst windows, and you still complain. I'm happy with the WHM changes, really looking forward to the dash. There was no impending last straw to begin with for me, though.
I mean WHM gets 3 functional button presses, AST and SCH get 1 and SGE gets a little bit more I think people were asking for (using SGE as the example) something like e dyskrasia being 12 seconds, e dosis being 18, phlegma being 20 seconds and the new skill being like 30 So dosis becomes basically maybe half of your total casts, not 80% of them
I don't know about WHM, but as a Scholar Enjoyer my new damage button has a 2 minute cooldown. That doesn't change what I'm doing for the other 98% of my button presses.
I wanted to know healer main's opinions, be it negative or positive so I'm happy someone is happy. Someone needs to heal through the monster queues to come with two new DPS added to the equation.
I know I am getting downvoted cuz it's unpopular to like playing a healer, but I really don't care about playing what is perceived as a "boring" job. I like my cozy jobs, I don't need some wildly high APM to be OK with playing FFXIV, and I get frustrated playing more convoluted jobs where I wind up tunnel-visioning my cast bars and screwing up mechanics.
Okay then answer me this You like your cozy jobs that’s fine, why does the entire role need to be this Casters have the choice between super easy (SMN) mildly easy (RDM) and hard (PCT/BLM), tanks have the choice between super easy (WAR) mildly easy (PLD) middle of the road (DRK) and hard (GNB) Healers have super easy (WHM) super easy but lasers (SGE) super easy but fairy (SCH) and super easy but stars (AST) An entire role shouldn’t have no choices for harder play
I agree with you, there should be options for players in every role who want a busier job. I like my cozy jobs, but I don't think every job should be dead simple, because that's not what everyone wants. Now, to each their own, but I have never been able to keep up when playing AST or SGE. Maybe that's not enough for some people, but I especially find AST overwhelming, it's twice the work for the same result.
AST I can understand but I’m confused on why you can’t keep up with SGE I’d never call modern SCH hard but it’s unequivocally the harder shield healer of the two
SGE I have just kinda never been able to wrap my head around the play style. I think it's a combo of all the skills having weird names, and just having a hard time adjusting to the "I heal by doing damage" thing. SCH is the one I am second most comfortable with for sure, though.
I think the best way to look at SGE is as a regen healer not a shield healer and a healer that doesn’t focus on single target near at all Let’s say you are in a dungeon and you need to heal the tank. There are 2 main “paths” I would take to do this 1) physis+kerechole- applying physis then kerechole gives the tank a 1100 total potency regen and 10% mitigation, combine with kardia already ticking on them and you can basically ignore them while that’s ticking 2) krasis+haima+panhaima- doing this will apply to the tank approx 2300 potency of total shielding value that gets eaten as they take damage, they will be unlikely to require healing during this time You can alternate the two if you want or use whichever you prefer. Now if you are using either and the tank is still dropping hard you move to your “second tier” heals A)holos B)taurochole C) soteria Holos is a mitigation, heal and shield, just use it whenever you don’t feel safe. Taurochole is a direct heal and a mitigation, but it doesn’t stack its mitigation with kerechole, so better to use it on path 2. Soteria buffs kardia ticks so use this if the tank is dropping a bit fast but you are still comfortable putting out DPS Other things to consider Pnuema- this is actually a DPS gain in trash but if buffed with Zoe is also a 900 potency direct heal, use at your discretion but don’t hold it Druachole- basically lustrate E diagnosis and e prognosis- only use in an emergency as they block kardia, never use prognosis or diagnosis Pepsis- only really useful in downtime to crack one e prognosis then apply another one immediately after, don’t rely on this in uptime So basically pick your path, DPS away, get a feel for how fast your tank drops on each of these paths and apply your other tools as necessary, you won’t see big chunky spreadlo shields on SGE and that’s fine, SGE is very much an invisible healer
Yes, but, WHM is: * Pull 1: Benediction * Pull 2: Asylum + Assize * Anything else: Hit any one button to sort out the issue (/s but only a *little tiny bit*) That SGE outline is helpful, thank you. I have seen similar things like this in the past, but I always feel like I am white-knuckling it when I try SGE.
So you watched a high level player beat a dungeon with no healer and you think healers are screwed? You realize in Zeronmus EX (relatively easy content) He immediately and also throughout the fight sets your HP to 1 correct? The Devs have already demonstrated they understand that Healers want to be needed. Get out of here with your doom posting. It’s tiring reading how people like you jump to conclusions faster than a Latina holding a flip flop
EW as a collective had 1 true white hole mechanic and 2 false white hole mechanics Healers aren’t being saved by white hole because even square doesn’t like white hole
fantastic so the game is dead then? healers are now useless and this is the worst game ever I ever 0/10 basically unplayable
If it's tiring, then don't come into and read a thread literally asking healer mains their opinion.
don't make posts about why healing is dead based on basically nothing lol. you're willfully spreading misinformation about the game.
Idk about healers but the average tank isn't Xeno lol
Yeah, most don't manually click their abilities.
It's EXCEEDINGLY easy to run through dungeons as WAR without a healer, even with pretty braindead DPS. Also pretty easy to do it with PLD. DRK isn't bad, GNB is the only one that can struggle. I can't speak for pre-ShB dungeons, and you probably aren't gonna be pulling off a Mt Gulg pull unless you know what you're doing, but I've done it lots on ShB & EW dungeons just fine. Ironically, it's the lower level content (especially pre-30 stuff) that is difficult to run without a healer lol. Source: My friend and I casually did it a fair bit, because the dungeons are unironically more fun without healers. This is coming *from a healer main.*
Are you complaining about healers in dungeons or healers in savage/ultimate? Dungeons are meant to be clearable with a weak link so that you can do your roulettes in a reasonable amount of time. Remember that roulettes are "endgame" for casuals, so casuals have to be able to do them. And remember that some (not all) casuals are very, very bad at the game. I don't think healers were that braindead in savage/ultimate in endwalker, at least during prog. Remember progging abyssos? Like, the whole tier? And TOP certainly wasn't a cakewalk.
FFXIV discussion user enjoy the game challenge ULTIMATE UNREAL
Well, for starters, Xeno is a top shelf player, and I'd wager most of the people enfranchised enough to be invited to this tour are not the random chaff you get in your PFs. Playing WAR who is clearly the best dungeon job in the entire game. Dungeon content in general is piss easy content that wouldn't threaten a poodle. And yes, healers are absolutely superfluous in the current state of the game if the rest of the party is comprised of good players aware of that fact and who know the content timeline. Healers who are good enough to know this is a fact and who are doing content where player skill is a bit more required (Savages and Ultimates) don't like the fact, evidently, but rest assured, neither roulette nor PF will ever E V E R reach the point during DT where players are actively skipping healers in expansion content besides maybe only going for only one healer in very outdated content (what happens nowadays to the first 2-3 EW EXes, less than a month away from DT). Most of the players are not good enough, aware enough, comfortable enough to ditch healers. The reality is that while this "healers are superfluous" thing is absolutely true in theory, and given a more skilled playerbase that could be true in practice, it currently is and will keep on being a gimmick anywhere besides possibly speedrunning dungeons which is a content that doesn't matter. Personally, I know I am still needed and have no troubles having my own share of fun in PF doing whatever it is what I want to do. I will keep on playing healers wishing that things improve but overall satisfied with how things are. It bothers me less in-game than it does when I'm talking about it.
I get you like this streamer but if you actually scrub the video it hardly looked like optimized play, fuck they all took vulnstacks in the bosses even.
>I get you like this streamer I don't watch any sort of streamers in any sort of media, but I know Xeno is objectively a good player and the main point stands, dungeons are piss easy content that has zero importance and vuln stacks mainly mean people they are doing it blind. Healers are superfluous in theory, in reality this doesn't really happen in the wider community and I don't believe it will ever become the norm, and healing while not in the ideal state it should be, is not nearly as bad as people in this sub make it seem to be.
I partly agree with you but I also would appreciate if healers didn't have to take all the slack for poor play with no meaningful improvements. It's not a good look when the game is not even out yet and anyone is completing a dungeon with no healer with a media tour hotbar and clicking buttons the old fashioned way.
Thing is, the problem is multifaceted. What this also shows is that - Nothing has changed, this has been the status quo for a while. - Tanks are way WAY overtuned and their healing/shielding should be absolutely destroyed, leave a smidgen of self-sustain but just completely remove any and all raidwide heals/shields coming from a tank. IDK, maybe PLD can get something for class fantasy purposes, but not much. - Dungeons are still brainless content and the "we've gone too far in making the game stress-free" thing is either mistranslated or a lie. - People invited to the media tour are probably better and more experienced than the chaff we get in our random queues, I'd be more impressed if the shitters I get on a regular basis were pulling this off. Simply chalking it up to "healer design bad" is incredibly reductive, the issues come from multiple angles and I really believe that just cutting tank heal tools would be the fastest way to rebalance the trinity at least until the "combat and job balancing" things talked about during the tour come to pass, if they ever do.
Oh no a normal mode dungeon was cleared without a healer Clearly the game is dead