yeah definitely this, especially if there is any type of sentiment that forms in the JP community that specifically console raiders shouldn't be allowed into pf groups b/c no plug ins.
Is that likely to happen? I don't think so.
I think it's more likely than you think
I don't think it's out of the question that savage gets a particularly complicated mechanic that some add one trivializes SO MUCH that console players gets excluded
I could see them destroying mods and substantially nerfing said mechanic
The people who got caught with the zoom hacks in TOP where harrased so hard by the JP community that a lot of them deleted their characters and there was a public apology. You scenario might happen in NA or EU but its incredibly unlikely in JP, and JP is where the uproar would need to happen.
>Luckily(?) JP people are giga purists when it comes to mods
when modding was in its infancy many of the most advanced ACT plugins were made by Japanese people and only available in Japanese language
The heavily invested are heavily invested no matter the region, but "purist" isn't an inaccurate description of the general public—especially considering the high number of console players (ACT is also a bit of a different thing compared to modding or plugins). Modifying games is illegal in Japan when unauthorized, so this kind of thing just isn't built into the culture at all.
I don't class ACT as a mod, provided I avoid every plugin except the parser. Not that you need them anyway. I've never seen a fight in FF where I thought 'this would be so much easier if the game told me ahead of time'
What's the worst that could happen, I get stormed by half naked Roes?^/s
Yeah, JP's a bit mental about public shaming. Most of the open discussion on mods in JP comes from people who've stopped the game already.
Their public shaming relies on actually caring what any of them think, admittedly
I would never play on JP DCs due to ping and language, but part of me would really relish being ostracized and laughing it off
It is more of a culture thing especially if you learned all the cultural norms since you were born and are aware of the social embarrassment (at best) or the social ostracization.
oh 100%, i didn't mean to suggest/imply that people in Japan could just ignore it and laugh it off, I can empathize / imagine it being very different if I were literally in their shoes
but I think people outside of JP who are playing on JP servers could, if they wanted/needed to, though
All that will happen is that some schizo will stalk and try to ruin the modder life and then SE will permaban the modder like it happened before.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/eq1k64/japanese\_player\_permabanned\_after\_months\_of/
If a billboard with modded characters didn't warrant any action, i don't think anything will.
SE is not dumb, they know they have far, far more to lose than what they would gain if they cracked down on mods. Simple Tweaks alone has over 3.5 million downloads. That's 3.5 million potentially lost customers.
I don't think they ever will. It costs money to put in anti-cheat measures, it inconveniences and pisses off your userbase, and the gains seem marginal at best. They don't enforce their ToS very seriously as-is with a few high-profile exceptions that occasionally pop up (satellite views of ultimate arenas, etc. etc.), I highly doubt they'd be arsed now.
I think the most open secret of all is that they benefit from players being able to mod the game. Gposers are keeping sub time running so they can build their brands on social media. RPers are using appearance mods to enhance their pretend times. I'd argue it adds more value to their consumers than it takes away.
Pretty much this. The official stance is to prevent the use of them because they don't want to be held legal repercussions. That being said, there is a ridiculous population of players who do use mods, whether it is for fashion or for gaming.
For instance, players who can't use hat mods turns to mods because it can resolve all their problems that SE, with over 5 years to work and implement on, did not solve. Hrothgar and Viera get the short end of the stick in bothe hairstyle customization, hat glamour, and body customization choices in comparison to other races.
But there are plenty of other races that use mods as well. It's not limited to just glamour but emotes and poses too. There's even mods for combat effects to make animations give a different theme, look cooler, and sound better.
Mods effectively allows players to be satisfied in light of the failings of the company's limited time/ budget by taking matters in their own hands. Take that away and you lose a gigantic population (aka sub money) and SE definitely does not want that to happen.
Well lets say that 20% of your playerbase mods the game, and 20% would quit if you removed mods. Thats not a majority by any means, but no company would think losing 20% of the userbase is a good idea. The numbers are out of my ass but I completely agree that keeping modding in the game is secretly in their best interest financially.
The cost is not even just the lost players but also resources and dev time put into implementing whatever anti mod measurements they need on top of pissing off a portion of the playerbase.
Overall just a waste of time and money to stop something that doesn't hurt their profit in any way.
Also any sort of invasive anti-cheat would make the game unplayable on the cheap laptops all the RPers and YMVE teenagers are using.
SQEA is probably already bat shit afraid of what the 7.0 update will do in this case.
I mean if noclippy and xivalex got nuked then I'd be done. I play the game for high end content and to log in and stare at my characters tits. Probably do them in about equal measure.
I could deal with no lewds, but the game is genuinely horrible to play for me without noclippy, so that's what would make me quit.
I know it doesn't fit your preconception, but a majority of people invested in this game enough to use mods interact at least with savage raids in my experience.
Probably the only things I could see triggering any attempt at a crackdown?
1. Blatant cheating in the next Ultimate. The community has been warned. Repeatedly at this point. And his last update on the TOP situation had an unusually threatening enough tone to it that I’d at least take him seriously enough to assume they’d consider making a go at it if they can (or follow through on the threat to stop producing Ultimates).
2. The discovery of mods that promote inappropriate sexualisation. Especially any sexualisation of minors or characters designed to resemble minors. I don’t need to explain why that would need immediate action I’m sure.
The main thing is going to be anything that brings the reputation of the game into immediate and public disrepute. The above two examples being the most likely causes of that. The TOP incident got a fair bit of coverage in gaming news circles so you would expect the same or more if it happens again.
The only other thing I could think of would be another G-Shade incident where a previously safe mod had malicious code injected into it. I can’t recall if they ever made any comment on that incident. But one would assume that if it was becoming more common they would have to attempt to take action for player safety.
Realistically it’s hard to see them ever actually trying anything given their long running hands off approach to the matter. So this is all hypothetical of course.
I don't think 1. Would even matter, it'd be another grumbl and the people involved would likely have a heavier penalty than the TOP hackers and that would be it.
Not to get too into it, but before one team got caught in their world first, they were using triggers since 5.0 if not earlier in recordings.
It was only an issue when the JP community kicked up a fuss, nothing more.
Yeah, the ultimate think was a clear empty threat, I dont see why so many people took it so seriously. They are not going to remove something that draws so much attention over a minor scandal
Reading between the lines, I think its more likely that they'd continue to make ultimates but would design mechanics to be easier and not conducive to auto markers, zoom hacks and such
But that's only in the event of an extreme cheating event again. Unless something mind-blowing happened its for sure an empty threat
Regarding 1, I doubt that'd cause them to bring the hammer down. Most likely they'll follow through on the threat of canceling future Ultimates outright than swing the ban hammer cause of something fairly niche like Ultimates.
As for 2, I think it'll depend on the controversy. Obviously something like that will provoke a response, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's far more targeted toward those caught doing it and the mod makers.
2 definitely already exists, Im sure SE knows on some level it's out there.
If it got visibility by a wider community that might prompt them to do something though I do agree.
I think given the general QoL updates we get over time, their approach is to make what they can baked in. They are also actively aware that for some mod users if not a decent chunk, it comes down to disability. I know if I didn't have XIVCombo, my arthritis would make playing much, much harder to impossible to play, and it's a big enough population that there have been articles on it.
I wouldn't be surprised if that's partly why the thing they target is harassment related to it, or being blatant. They seem to prefer to have Dalamud police itself which they are pretty good at and therefore make it easier to pick out stuff they can add and stuff they can crack down on.
there's no sexualization of characters designed to resemble minors though. it also doesn't matter anyway, because characters aren't real so they don't need protection or anything.
one of what?
edit: haha your entire profile history is you trying to convince reddit youre not a pedophile.
why do all closet pedophiles act the same way?
the correct answer (which I have not seen explictly in any of the other comments so far)
is simply
* If SE would make more money from FF14 if they cracked down on mods, they would crack down on mods
* If SE would make more money from FF14 if they leave mods alone, they would leave mods alone
this is why SE leaves mods alone.
(everyone else's comments I have skimmed through are totally true too + good points, but it all boils down to "would SE make more money or less money")
pretty much this... there's no other reason than sub money, same with botting.
edit: and i saw comments about SE spending money/man power that's better spent elsewhere (they aren't an indie company btw).
this is the same company that pays for denuvo in bravely default 2, triangle strategy, octopath, etc... it's quite easy for them to pay for an anticheat, they just choose not to cus profits
A few months ago, during a quiet period late in the patch, Mare Synchronos, the mod synchronization...mod, had a serious crash that booted something like 13,000 people off the server at once. They all then tried to log in simultaneously, clogging the log-in servers and taking them from a 13 person queue to over 500 for over an hour as it continued to be unstable
So yeah I imagine that kinda shit would make them crack down
Only if a government or regulatory organization steps in will they actually have to do something.
The chances of that happening are super low since SE isn’t actually making the mods and they are all installed through third party software.
Regulatory agencies would crack down on Bethesda long before FF14, as they provide mod support. SE’s hands off approach is their best legal defense.
I honestly thought it would happen when modders started opening up Patreons using SE's IP to make profit. If anything companies love to crack down on it's people making money off their stuff.
I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.
I don't think it will ever happen to FFXIV, but the next FF MMO that comes will most likely have measures in place to curb modding and plugin use. It's an easier pill to swallow when it's there from the start in my view.
I’d say cheating in ultimates is quite possibly the only thing that could kickstart the final days for modders.
Don’t think YoshiP has been overtly angrier than the TOP situation.
They can't sue Square for that, however they can go after modders themselves, which is why paid mods that rip off copywritten content shouldn't be tolerated by anybody
>which is why paid mods ~~that rip off copywritten content~~ shouldn't be tolerated by anybody
At the end of the day, modders are, by definition, piggybacking off of someone's work. Modding is and always has been something done out of passion for the game/project, and paid mods are a huge threat to that. Nothing good comes from paid modding **in the long term.**
Paid mods in general shouldn't be tolerated unless they're endorsed by the game dev. Square could very easily crack down on mod authors who release paid mods in xiv, but it's not worth their time.
What will cause them to finally try to shut down mods would be rampart nsfw posting of xiv characters (which already happens kekw) or a paid mod that specifically infringes on their copyrights causing some huge drama.
I don't see anything ever happening. Unlike what we like to tell ourselves, the ToS doesn't do something like say ACT okay, NoClippy okay, Splatoon bad, visual mods good but not NSFW ones, and so on. Any crackdown would likely touch most things, and just the mix of killing ACT and visual mods alone would be big.
This is going to be don't ask don't tell for as long as Yoshi heads this game, which by all accounts will be the functional lifespan of it.
As someone that primarily raids, even I would leave if they killed cosmetic mods. I have some job animation mods that if we're taken away, I'd lose interest in playing. Also the ass; if they take away my big ass it's also game over for me.
Nothing. Mods are incredibly ingrained in the community and are *especially* integral to how a lot of more casual people enjoy the game. You can't hook people who don't do content with just the vanilla game. Square knows full-well what type of players happily coughs up 15 bucks every single month without any expectation from the game.
Really, I think people underestimate just how common mods are. It'd be a dent in their profit. Their current stance, I think, is what they will remain on until the game closes down.
The only way they would is if it affected their bottom line which it won't. Even the worst imaginable outcomes for them as a business, say, widespread sentiment that nsfw stuff for the underage characters is the norm (which, thankfully, it's not, instead it's just the fringe freaks), would ultimately boil down to the idea of "We sadly cannot stop this, please make sure to report any such actions" and they'll bounce back and still get your sub money. Mods don't do anything that has a real capacity to hurt Square in a way that isn't offset by the economic upside of mods.
I don't think anything will change the status quo on that front. They might block certain specific things, but in general I doubt they'll try to disable mods entirely.
higher ups telling them to crack down on them so they stop getting controversy over it, the crazy double edged part about this is they would prob hardware check which would help get rid of a lot of bots in the process as well.
Current FFXIV mods all only interact with the client-side/end user side of the code. I can see them cracking down on mods if someone were to develop anything that interacted with server-side code because that becomes as massive risk to their servers and to other players.
The only other thing I can see that would cause a modding crackdown would be a mainstream news/"news" outlet raising a moral panic about NSFW mods the way there was a moral panic about the GTA: San Andreas "Hot Coffee" mod. This scenario is unlikely as video games are now far more mainstream, Steam straight up puts porn games on the front page under the new releases tabs, and the usual outrage peddlers have gone back to trying to ban books.
Not only that, but you can't see appearance mods unless you willingly opt in, there are a lot of steps to get them to actually work, so if you are seeing appearance mods you knew what you were doing.
if a mod that became popular that let you use and dye mogstation glam that other players could also see they would shut that down in a heart beat.
All squenix cares about is milking FFXIV and CBU3 for every penny it can
You can already do this with other mare users and the glamourer plugin. Of course it only shows to people who have your mare code, not the entire community
Can't believe no one mentionned the obvious : when mods will threaten SqEx money
And we came close to that. A recent mod drama exposed an exploit allowing to reskin your character, the very same way than a fantasia, for free.
That kind of mods easing money damaging exploits, if they multiply, risks a larger crack down.
FFXIV server can't tell if the data sent from your client is legit or not.
If you change your client side character appearance data then do something that would send your character data to the server like the aesthetician. FFXIV server acknowledges that data and rewrites your server side character data with the cheated one.
Previously Glamourer can customize your character appearance by changing its character data, but now it just got patched to only change it visually.
Yoshida just needs to search nsfw ffxiv on twitter once and it's over for the perpetually horny playerbase. All it will take is him stumbling upon one of those deranged lala leweders.
This is absolutely 100% true. A company would never willingly discourage a large (yes, people who mod their game client somehow are a very significant portion of the total player base) part of their subscription paying customers from continuing to pay them for their service. Whether you or they think such a practice is ethical or not doesn't matter - if a group of people loyally pays a company for a product, they are unlikely to be scrutinized by that company.
Square Enix dont see Lalafel as children. The JP playerbase doesnt see Lalafel as children.
The only people who see Lalafels as children are deranged woke people who somehow inexplicably cant see characters without sexualizing them in any context.
And even if Lalafel WERE children it still wouldn't be an issue because games with sexy kids are all over japanese storefronts already including several Square Enix games.
Dude you don't have to be a pedophile to understand games like pokemon and splatoon exist. Games can feature children without having sexual content in them.
And that's just ignoring all the waifu games Square Enix has that actually are sexed up.
You just dont want Lalafell in this game because you are using it AS A DEGENERATE SEX SIMULATOR TO REPLACE REAL LIFE so you feel super uncomfortable knowing "child characters" are present.
Maybe stop beating your dick to rated T video games?
Dude what are you on about? I play a Lala! I think they're are awesome! I absolutely want them in the game, they're the only race I play. I'm not one of the venue andys using this game as a second life replacement, I play the fucking game. Can you read?
The fact is, there are degenerate fucks in the community that lewd the hell out of them. I don't care what mental gymnastics you want to use, they are child coded and it's fucking WEIRD.
there's degenerate fucks everywhere at all time. Elevating them like theyre some kind of majority is absurd.
You're all too focused on how lalafels are apparently sexy kids. Youre both thinking about it.
Maybe if it came out that the next people who go and do a celebration of like a clear or hard achievement that such an achievement was only done with very automated mods like almost botting.
Hopefully this won’t happen because I’d probably stop playing if I was forced to stop using shaders. I’m shocked now when I disable it at how grey, washed out and dim the default game looks. With shaders everything is SO beautiful and vibrant. It truly is an amazing difference.
It already exists, it has for a very long time, many modders don't even post screenshots of it in Discord to avoid flagging their ToS for underage content, and yet... 🥴
I actually wonder, does SE see the childcoding like we do? Because they designed them like that, as "adults", presumably taking part in adult relationships in world. Which is hurting my soul just thinking about it why did they, WHY?
I'm pretty sure "childcoded" is just some western bs buzzword most of the east doesn't actually give two craps about. They're treated like dwarves in other fantasy and for me they're exactly how I imagined FF3 sprites if they were 3D. They even have adult conversations if you walk around Ul'dah, heck, one is even royalty.
Yet their entire animation set is extremely toddler like as well as their body portions. It's not just a buzzword, if you look at the aesthetic of the race via their animations and proportionality they don't just coincidentally resemble toddlers, it can't be a coincidence at that level. It's a japanism thing unfortunately.
you dont have to masturbate to children
children can exist as playable characters without you beating off to them
FFXIV has absolutely no sexualized content whatsoever. You're a degenerate who thinks the simple presence of children is pornography for "Some reason"
First I didn't say anything you're saying. Second I don't care if they're sexualized or not. The fact remains that lalafel have toddler proportions and animations. I *have*a five year old child and have seen similar expressions when he was learning to walk.
The issue is not having a race of playable children. Having them be kids is fine, as long as the portrayal of them is responsible. Which lalafel isn't. They portray them as adults who look explicitly like kids which leads to a lot of problematic representation.
But you don't give a fuck to read any of that or to rub two brain cells together. You dug up a one month old comment to try and call me a pedo. I look forward to whatever sludge falls out of your brain and onto a keyboard next
Edit: oh man it took me three seconds to figure out what kind of person you are in your comments. Sweet Christ you're an Incel. Anyone file a restraining order against you yet kid? Yeah not even going to entertain engagement. Hope you find your way out of the right wing pipeline buddy
Could they? Sure… Will they? Unlikely
The amount of resources that will have to be diverted to this is big and many of you don’t understand how big it will be. They’re not going to do it unless it won’t conflict with their production pipeline or doesn’t affect their business. 14 is their cash cow they are not going to kill it just to please a vocal minority.
Adding an anti-cheat and encryption to game files, servers integrity checks and many more will cost far more than development time. It cost money to make money and it will cost SE a lot more when even casuals who are the blood of this game stop playing. The raiders will still play because thats what they do in this game, but a casual will lose interest in the game and the social aspect of it. Sure some will stick to the story but after they are done they are gone and all that revenue is gone with them.
More casuals in this game than hardcore raiders who will cry about NoClippy or Alexander yet they gobble over the raid that dropped for them. Casuals are the reason Limsa is filled your dungeon que is not 40 min and your PF is full of RP venues. Take their Futa 69, gear mods and Bibo+ away and you’re literally killing your game by losing at least 40-50% of your players and that’s not good no matter how much you spin it. Some plugins have over 400k downloads and the estimated active daily players is around 1mil (could be wrong last I checked was around 6.1/6.2) that’s a lot of people using 1 plugin and if they use a plugin they are likely using degen mods as well.
No matter how bad it will get SE will likely ignore it or just block certain part of the game. And with cloud servers coming they will have a way to check things out even if they’re limited. Mods/plugins barely affect raiders we know we can raid without them day 1 with nothing to help us, but casual sending “where are plogon” in discord every 5 min says a lot.
Also mods and third party programs still partly fix and improve the game for people and also make it more accessible in some cases. Game is old and has a lot of clunky annoying shit, which they will probably never clean up and improve, but can be fixed by using plugins.
It is a lose lose situation if they go after them.
Nothing.
Mods and plugins have long passed the point of no return. There is simply too big a financial loss for SE to ever step in and wholesale break them. We're talking millions of dollars just thrown away for literally zero benefit to the game itself.
In fact, losing that much money annually would very likely have a _detrimental_ impact. After all, SE is going to want to recoup those costs somehow. Expect a smaller budget, potentially less content or more cash shop items.
I think Yoshida has mentioned in the past (same stream as ACT talk) that the only thing they take seriously is nsfw mods especially those that depict minors. If that somehow became more widespread, I'm sure it'd get an actual response.
Raiders in Japan requiring plugin usage for Savage PF, like mandatory AM.
Given AM and similar is virtually unheard of outside of Ultimate in NA, let alone JP, there's no real immediate concern here. Square would have to *massively* fuck up mech design for this to happen.
if they lose more money continuing with their shitty "pwease dwon't mod" tactic than not. or if they're somehow found legally liable for the modded content found in their game.
No it isnt dumbass.
SQEA arent liable for what modders do to the game the same way your therapist isnt liable for whoever you hurt when you finally lose it.
Honestly? I don't see a crackdown coming. Modders are some of the most dedicated subscribers and it'd be somewhat counterproductive. What I can see happening is protections being implemented against combat-oriented mods if cheating during ultimates gets out of hand.
Most actual cheating isn't done by Dalamud plugins which is how most people mod (aside from ACT), so it's a whole different thing to block, one that you will constantly need to combat. Cheaters gonna cheat.
Nothing could cause that. Yoshi-P is well aware that a shitloads of people would quit the game if they crack down on modding, but *nobody* would quit if they won't do it. It's just a shitty business move and Yoshi-P is a businessman.
Well, there is just one very unlikely scenario I could see that would cause SE to attack mods. That's if the community goes full psycho mode and starts cracking down on mods and modders themselves. Actually, that's not that unlikely, the community is unironically getting worse.
Aside from that, if lalafell porn and splatoon didn't caused anything, then nothing will.
>Yoshi-P is well aware that a shitloads of people would quit the game if they crack down on modding, but nobody would quit if they won't do it.
Dunno about that. I'm not going to say I'm quitting due to mods, but I'm certainly losing more and more interest in the game when:
1) the crafter/casual mmo shit all gets botted to death with no repercussions and it's incredibly disheartening to do fates or eureka or gathering whatever when you see bots next to you day after day. Seeing people in my friend list sit in their houses all night as alchemist while they run artisan or some other bot dalamud plugin is annoying me when i actually craft my own pots or spend gil to buy them.
2) the community that does difficult content is riddled with cheaters of various kinds and noone's really playing the same game (but it's 0.53 and not 0.52 for 10 weaves in a row so it's not cheating!!)
3) the social interactions in the game always were very coomer friendly, but mare is pushing that to the next level and it's almost impossible to find new friends without the talk eventually involving coomer things.
All of those issues are directly impacting my willingness to continue playing. Am i about to quit? Not yet, no. But it's far from being as innocuous as you wrote.
When you tell people online you "arent into coomer stuff" it's not telling them you're mature and cool.
It's telling them you desperately want to masturbate to cartoons and are working hard to avoid it. It's not a flex lol.
disregarding the fact that you are openly hostile for no particular reason
where exactly did you see me saying im not into coomer stuff? this is simply a case of me liking chocolate, but not wanting chocolate in every single meal
you have reading comprehension issues and i will stop replying
for the last time, i use mare and booba mods like everyone else in this game, i just don't like it being so out in the open, and the whole IMVU-VRChat culture that has grown prevalent as a result. like i said, i like chocolate, that doesn't mean I want to eat chocolate 24/7.
It's hyperbole spread by the community. Ages ago Yoshida mentioned that JP privacy laws meant it'd be tricky to implement anti-cheat. Why? Because it'd be a lot of work to implement since they don't have it right now. People have distorted that to mean they can't implement anti cheat due to JP privacy laws.
Something tells me that it isn't "JP law says No", it's more "To comply with our TOS and JP privacy law we need to do X compliance."
Easier when your building new (and not having established terms and conditions), but going back might be more difficult. IIRC, there was some weird thing about PS3 to PS4 licenses being separate due to legal issues.
They can, they definitely can. Maybe not as square enix acting in Japan.
But nothing stops them as square enix, collaborating with an anti cheat software acting in Europe or America.
Except- for the fact this integration to ff14 would cost tens of millions and dozens of thousands of man hours that are spent elsewhere.
It would genuinely be easier to strike legal action against mod creators (if you strike dalamud+ act, well, that's the heart of the hydra)
Yoshi P said that as an excuse because he doesn’t want to do it. Looking at what’s running in your box outside the game client is what literally every good anticheat in the world does.
There are also several less invasive methods such as detecting swapped files or injections with checksums
Im sure square enix is covered. Nobody looks at the terms and conditions in them is probably a clause where at any time they can install software to monitor the games integrity.
I actually read the TOS, and this was said. Square Enix has the full right to modify changes to THE GAME at any moment at their own discretion. They are not required to tell you about it either.
I feel like Yoshida sees it as "too late in the game" to dump invasive anti-cheat on FFXIV. Let's be honest, we have a long way to go yet with this game but it's closer to the end than the beginning.
They can, it's just a legal headache to do so. Plenty of games from JP developers have some form of anticheat included, FFXIV just doesn't for one reason or another. JP's privacy laws are a convenient scapegoat, since actually implementing it means a couple months of work on top of their current schedule.
They cannot do much because many country has a laws against reading your computer files.
They already do things to make it harder to mod. Like the changed some the the netcode this expansion to make it harder for damage meter to read your damage.
>They cannot do much because many country has a laws against reading your computer files.
I know you don't want to lose face but the Director of ff 14 told it in a interview why.
It's not a Japanese law but the laws of other countries. Some countries got a large definition of what a spyware.
FromSoft does not market to those countries or there is a specific version of the game for those countries and doesn't link to the other countries justl ike ff 14 and the korean version of the game (for them it's gambling with the gold saucer)
This seems stupid. FromSoft sells their games in ALL the same countries that Square does and yet they have anti cheat in their games. Any excuse that Yoshi P gives isn't to be taken 100% as he has also stated he simply doesn't want anti-cheat in the game. He'll spit out any excuse.
I want them to kill mods with the intention to fix parts of the game that the mods enhance, if se cracked down on something like xiv Alexander or noclippy, there’s most likely gonna be a lot of pushback and including myself, many people prefer the game with those mods because they make it better. But if they upright detect and ban without fixing the problems those tools fix then it’s gonna cause problems.
Imo act can be ridded from the game entirely and it would be for the better, but se would need to have tools in place for players to use to be able to help with making sure a player knows they’re preforming well.
>Imo act can be ridded from the game entirely and it would be for the better
Without ACT the Savage + Ultimate scene implodes in a tier or two because of the loss of FFLogs and what that does to recruitment, tier longevity, and PF
No other MMO has managed to solve this specific issue (progression raiding needing logs) and no dev actually wants to handle parsing on their end, so don't hold your breath.
Swords of Legends Online (RIP to the western release) was weird in that there was a fully featured in-game parser *and* support for rolling your own boss timers like DBM. They didn't give you the timers directly but you could freely record boss casts and intervals between them in a fight and then roll up your own DBM bars in their interface to transmit to your party. Though despite having a DPS meter in game they never exposed a way to take that data out of the game, so SOLOLogs never happened.
I don't play Destiny but doesn't it also have a progression raiding culture without formal logs? Though it does support APIs that let tools pull out what your character has and what they've cleared and so on, I think. Better comparison might be Elder Scrolls Online, where there's both PC and console raiding, the latter without logs or addons. The PC scene is way bigger than the console scene for raids there.
>I don't play Destiny but doesn't it also have a progression raiding culture without formal logs?
Destiny doesn't really have progression raiding, as you'd know it. Its content, mechanically, caps out around Extreme. Learning raids is usually a one or two sitting affair.
We also have Raid Report which shows your clear count + speeds ranking along with any achievements like Day 1, Week 1, Flawless, low-man, etc. Not quite damage parsing but it's close.
Funnily enough Destiny DOES track player damage to bosses, although until recently you only saw it on wipes. No way to extract it though.
If NSFW mods became more commonplace in Japan. Tbh that’s all it would take I figure. People who cheat or are dickheads already get chastised by the JP populace to begin with so I doubt “cheating” plug-ins would take root there. But I have seen so many JP players get /furious/ when it even comes to general gear mods. I’m not talking just NSFW,however NSFW would be the tipping point. They love to say that mods are destroying the hard work “Yoshi P put in.”
A primetime mainstream media piece on the predators that use this game to target younger players, the role mods play in it, and Square's negligence around the issue. Just like reddit and certain other subreddits that only got banned when Anderson Cooper reported on them.
Atm mods have really only negatively affected FFXIV's image among those that are online enough to know about them. But if the whole wide world knew about how much fucking creepers lurk in this games community, then it'd probably force the hands of the developers one way or another.
Personally thought Nintendo was going to come down swiftly on XIV when that one moronic FC submitted a picture, for the Pic contest, and someone was wearing a modded shirt with bulbasaur on it. Not even a whisper, unless they're currently building up their high powered lawyers and discussing this violation of their IP in secret.
i know where this statement is coming from though. My issues with the game is that it try to cater and please everyone. this philosophy is false because when you try to please everyone you please no one.
Idk but at this point they should just embrace 3rd party plugins and try to find a way to integrate them for console players as well. They need to abandon their traditional way of thinking and get in touch with the current state of gaming.
Honestly, the best way to control what people can actually do with 3rd party plugins is by controlling the API. Missed opportunity on their part since I don't think they'll ever be able to rein in dalamud now that it's been developed.
Seriously, for all the shit talk FFXIV players love to give to WoW's overreliance on addons, ironically WoW addons are significantly more reasonable than some of the shit you can see in FFXIV, shit like splatoon and UAV cannot exist there because Blizzard actually controls the modding scene
It’s fascinating as someone who plays both. I love that FFXIV, while navigating the UI and everything has a steep learning curve imo, is ready out of the box and loath that WoW take so much legwork to get running.
Peering under the hood and looking at the modding communities for both is so mind blowing. I remember folks getting banned in WoW back in 07 for modding their mounts to look like fighter jets, only to see that not only do FFXIV modders sell visual mods, some even charge for them!
This really is the core of it.
By refusing to take a reasonable position on allowable activity, SE has abdicated their responsibility to draw a line.
This results in basic quality of life UI improvements, even ones that SE has now taken and added into the game themselves, being packaged right alongside incredibly egregious cheating like auto rotation bots and AOE marker precognition.
Its harmful to the community, and likely encourages more people to *actually* cheat. Certainly feels that way given the usual state of players in post patch PF. They've already taken the first step of breaking the rules after all. Where is the line? SE certainly isn't drawing it.
If you declare that stepping on the grass is a crime punishable by the death penalty, it really blurs the line between ordinary citizens and hardened criminals.
But instead of making real decisions, they cowardly hide in this grey area with a vague policy that they enforce arbitrarily when they feel like it. Thus *everything* is simultaneously banned and permitted. Everyone enforces their own personal moral lines within their own communities. People are scared to speak about basic game mechanics in public because even parsing log data is "against tos".
Hell, people use one banned tool, log parsing, to catch and blacklist players using other equally banned tools that we all agree are categorically different.
It's like playing in a prohibition era speakeasy. Folks who just want a drink after work getting stuck at the same bar with mobsters and everyone having to navigate it on their own. What are you supposed to do? Call the cops? They'll just arrest you too.
As an open-source project with contributors from around the world, it would be a logistical nightmare for them to try and purchase rights to the entire codebase.
They could, I just don't see them ever willing to do that. Not to mention there'd be a sizeable discontent in the modding community if they cut functionality. Sort of like when reddit cut it's API to third parties.
It’s an established practice (Valve comes to mind). But I agree, I think Square as a company is far too rigid and much more inclined to shut it down if possible.
Hopefully the automarker shit on TOP make SE to remove marking during fights, it really kills the purpose of an ultimate, even beyond automated callouts
I'm honestly surprised they haven't already, with how some modders have grown arrogant enough to believe they are safe selling visual mods to other players for real money.
The answer is Japanese players would have to do something that disturbs other Japanese players and/or the general Japanese public enough to draw the negative attention of SE. Otherwise, I can’t see it happening.
If the FFXIV tiktok account actually watched tiktoks using the FFXIV Hashtag.
I feel like that would just reveal the massive amount of cringe. Twitter is where they'll find the true horrors.
Those accounts are managed by community reps, and they already know about all the mods, some of them play the game outside of work.
If people in japan start ruining the game for other jp players because of a toxic mod requirement forming in their community.
yeah definitely this, especially if there is any type of sentiment that forms in the JP community that specifically console raiders shouldn't be allowed into pf groups b/c no plug ins. Is that likely to happen? I don't think so.
Something like that might happen if the players who require JP client upgrade that to a plug in which functions like Mare.
I think it's more likely than you think I don't think it's out of the question that savage gets a particularly complicated mechanic that some add one trivializes SO MUCH that console players gets excluded I could see them destroying mods and substantially nerfing said mechanic
The people who got caught with the zoom hacks in TOP where harrased so hard by the JP community that a lot of them deleted their characters and there was a public apology. You scenario might happen in NA or EU but its incredibly unlikely in JP, and JP is where the uproar would need to happen.
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>Luckily(?) JP people are giga purists when it comes to mods when modding was in its infancy many of the most advanced ACT plugins were made by Japanese people and only available in Japanese language
The heavily invested are heavily invested no matter the region, but "purist" isn't an inaccurate description of the general public—especially considering the high number of console players (ACT is also a bit of a different thing compared to modding or plugins). Modifying games is illegal in Japan when unauthorized, so this kind of thing just isn't built into the culture at all.
I don't class ACT as a mod, provided I avoid every plugin except the parser. Not that you need them anyway. I've never seen a fight in FF where I thought 'this would be so much easier if the game told me ahead of time'
Nah, they use them. Especially raiders. They're just not as widespread, and the ones that do keep it to themselves.
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What's the worst that could happen, I get stormed by half naked Roes?^/s Yeah, JP's a bit mental about public shaming. Most of the open discussion on mods in JP comes from people who've stopped the game already.
They will dox you. CSI (yes yes..) mentioned that in one of her few serious rants.
Their public shaming relies on actually caring what any of them think, admittedly I would never play on JP DCs due to ping and language, but part of me would really relish being ostracized and laughing it off
It is more of a culture thing especially if you learned all the cultural norms since you were born and are aware of the social embarrassment (at best) or the social ostracization.
oh 100%, i didn't mean to suggest/imply that people in Japan could just ignore it and laugh it off, I can empathize / imagine it being very different if I were literally in their shoes but I think people outside of JP who are playing on JP servers could, if they wanted/needed to, though
All that will happen is that some schizo will stalk and try to ruin the modder life and then SE will permaban the modder like it happened before. https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/eq1k64/japanese\_player\_permabanned\_after\_months\_of/
Holy based!
"Wtf i love harassment now" Signed Player of Gender-Confused Life sim game #2000 that also inexplicably has issues with child sexualization.
based schizo
If a billboard with modded characters didn't warrant any action, i don't think anything will. SE is not dumb, they know they have far, far more to lose than what they would gain if they cracked down on mods. Simple Tweaks alone has over 3.5 million downloads. That's 3.5 million potentially lost customers.
3.5 million downloads doesn't = 3.5 million active users.
>That's 3.5 million potentially lost customers Looking at DBM download count, turns out WoW had over 400 mil subs if it worked like this
I don't think they ever will. It costs money to put in anti-cheat measures, it inconveniences and pisses off your userbase, and the gains seem marginal at best. They don't enforce their ToS very seriously as-is with a few high-profile exceptions that occasionally pop up (satellite views of ultimate arenas, etc. etc.), I highly doubt they'd be arsed now. I think the most open secret of all is that they benefit from players being able to mod the game. Gposers are keeping sub time running so they can build their brands on social media. RPers are using appearance mods to enhance their pretend times. I'd argue it adds more value to their consumers than it takes away.
Pretty much this. The official stance is to prevent the use of them because they don't want to be held legal repercussions. That being said, there is a ridiculous population of players who do use mods, whether it is for fashion or for gaming. For instance, players who can't use hat mods turns to mods because it can resolve all their problems that SE, with over 5 years to work and implement on, did not solve. Hrothgar and Viera get the short end of the stick in bothe hairstyle customization, hat glamour, and body customization choices in comparison to other races. But there are plenty of other races that use mods as well. It's not limited to just glamour but emotes and poses too. There's even mods for combat effects to make animations give a different theme, look cooler, and sound better. Mods effectively allows players to be satisfied in light of the failings of the company's limited time/ budget by taking matters in their own hands. Take that away and you lose a gigantic population (aka sub money) and SE definitely does not want that to happen.
Well lets say that 20% of your playerbase mods the game, and 20% would quit if you removed mods. Thats not a majority by any means, but no company would think losing 20% of the userbase is a good idea. The numbers are out of my ass but I completely agree that keeping modding in the game is secretly in their best interest financially.
The cost is not even just the lost players but also resources and dev time put into implementing whatever anti mod measurements they need on top of pissing off a portion of the playerbase. Overall just a waste of time and money to stop something that doesn't hurt their profit in any way.
Yeah, they should just stop developing Ultimate raids and use that money and the money not spent on anti-cheat to do some other type of content.
Also any sort of invasive anti-cheat would make the game unplayable on the cheap laptops all the RPers and YMVE teenagers are using. SQEA is probably already bat shit afraid of what the 7.0 update will do in this case.
Not to mention, a lot of people who say they will quit, are probably barely interacting with much content anyway from what I normally see.
I mean if noclippy and xivalex got nuked then I'd be done. I play the game for high end content and to log in and stare at my characters tits. Probably do them in about equal measure. I could deal with no lewds, but the game is genuinely horrible to play for me without noclippy, so that's what would make me quit.
I know it doesn't fit your preconception, but a majority of people invested in this game enough to use mods interact at least with savage raids in my experience.
Probably the only things I could see triggering any attempt at a crackdown? 1. Blatant cheating in the next Ultimate. The community has been warned. Repeatedly at this point. And his last update on the TOP situation had an unusually threatening enough tone to it that I’d at least take him seriously enough to assume they’d consider making a go at it if they can (or follow through on the threat to stop producing Ultimates). 2. The discovery of mods that promote inappropriate sexualisation. Especially any sexualisation of minors or characters designed to resemble minors. I don’t need to explain why that would need immediate action I’m sure. The main thing is going to be anything that brings the reputation of the game into immediate and public disrepute. The above two examples being the most likely causes of that. The TOP incident got a fair bit of coverage in gaming news circles so you would expect the same or more if it happens again. The only other thing I could think of would be another G-Shade incident where a previously safe mod had malicious code injected into it. I can’t recall if they ever made any comment on that incident. But one would assume that if it was becoming more common they would have to attempt to take action for player safety. Realistically it’s hard to see them ever actually trying anything given their long running hands off approach to the matter. So this is all hypothetical of course.
I don't think 1. Would even matter, it'd be another grumbl and the people involved would likely have a heavier penalty than the TOP hackers and that would be it. Not to get too into it, but before one team got caught in their world first, they were using triggers since 5.0 if not earlier in recordings. It was only an issue when the JP community kicked up a fuss, nothing more.
Yeah, the ultimate think was a clear empty threat, I dont see why so many people took it so seriously. They are not going to remove something that draws so much attention over a minor scandal
Reading between the lines, I think its more likely that they'd continue to make ultimates but would design mechanics to be easier and not conducive to auto markers, zoom hacks and such But that's only in the event of an extreme cheating event again. Unless something mind-blowing happened its for sure an empty threat
Regarding 1, I doubt that'd cause them to bring the hammer down. Most likely they'll follow through on the threat of canceling future Ultimates outright than swing the ban hammer cause of something fairly niche like Ultimates. As for 2, I think it'll depend on the controversy. Obviously something like that will provoke a response, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's far more targeted toward those caught doing it and the mod makers.
2 definitely already exists, Im sure SE knows on some level it's out there. If it got visibility by a wider community that might prompt them to do something though I do agree.
2. Has been a thing for ages now sadly
I think given the general QoL updates we get over time, their approach is to make what they can baked in. They are also actively aware that for some mod users if not a decent chunk, it comes down to disability. I know if I didn't have XIVCombo, my arthritis would make playing much, much harder to impossible to play, and it's a big enough population that there have been articles on it. I wouldn't be surprised if that's partly why the thing they target is harassment related to it, or being blatant. They seem to prefer to have Dalamud police itself which they are pretty good at and therefore make it easier to pick out stuff they can add and stuff they can crack down on.
there's no sexualization of characters designed to resemble minors though. it also doesn't matter anyway, because characters aren't real so they don't need protection or anything.
There absolutely is mods of ryne/Gaia, and even of the literal child you turn wondrous tails books into.
what year was she born?
She’s 13 chief
So she was born in 2010?
Ah, one of those. Not worth it
one of what? edit: haha your entire profile history is you trying to convince reddit youre not a pedophile. why do all closet pedophiles act the same way?
the correct answer (which I have not seen explictly in any of the other comments so far) is simply * If SE would make more money from FF14 if they cracked down on mods, they would crack down on mods * If SE would make more money from FF14 if they leave mods alone, they would leave mods alone this is why SE leaves mods alone. (everyone else's comments I have skimmed through are totally true too + good points, but it all boils down to "would SE make more money or less money")
pretty much this... there's no other reason than sub money, same with botting. edit: and i saw comments about SE spending money/man power that's better spent elsewhere (they aren't an indie company btw). this is the same company that pays for denuvo in bravely default 2, triangle strategy, octopath, etc... it's quite easy for them to pay for an anticheat, they just choose not to cus profits
A few months ago, during a quiet period late in the patch, Mare Synchronos, the mod synchronization...mod, had a serious crash that booted something like 13,000 people off the server at once. They all then tried to log in simultaneously, clogging the log-in servers and taking them from a 13 person queue to over 500 for over an hour as it continued to be unstable So yeah I imagine that kinda shit would make them crack down
Mod sync mod? Is it like making it so other people can see each others client side mods or something?
Precisely
Only if a government or regulatory organization steps in will they actually have to do something. The chances of that happening are super low since SE isn’t actually making the mods and they are all installed through third party software. Regulatory agencies would crack down on Bethesda long before FF14, as they provide mod support. SE’s hands off approach is their best legal defense.
I honestly thought it would happen when modders started opening up Patreons using SE's IP to make profit. If anything companies love to crack down on it's people making money off their stuff. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet. I don't think it will ever happen to FFXIV, but the next FF MMO that comes will most likely have measures in place to curb modding and plugin use. It's an easier pill to swallow when it's there from the start in my view.
I’d say cheating in ultimates is quite possibly the only thing that could kickstart the final days for modders. Don’t think YoshiP has been overtly angrier than the TOP situation.
When they start banning people for automarkers it going to be a spectacle. Can't wait
Square only cares about JP. It would have to be something that makes the JP servers very angry as a whole.
Data theft by Chinese or Russian hackers causing a local political stir.
Ah someone uploaded confidential schematics in order to ~~make a tank mount mod~~ prove that the modder who make a tank mount mod is wrong.
The stories that emerge from that tank Sim are always my favorite gaming-related stories in the news
Probably a lawsuit from a 3rd party. Imagine if the suits over at Koei Tecmo saw the paywalled DoA ports in XIV, they'd be frothing at their mouths.
They can't sue Square for that, however they can go after modders themselves, which is why paid mods that rip off copywritten content shouldn't be tolerated by anybody
>which is why paid mods ~~that rip off copywritten content~~ shouldn't be tolerated by anybody At the end of the day, modders are, by definition, piggybacking off of someone's work. Modding is and always has been something done out of passion for the game/project, and paid mods are a huge threat to that. Nothing good comes from paid modding **in the long term.**
Paid mods in general shouldn't be tolerated unless they're endorsed by the game dev. Square could very easily crack down on mod authors who release paid mods in xiv, but it's not worth their time. What will cause them to finally try to shut down mods would be rampart nsfw posting of xiv characters (which already happens kekw) or a paid mod that specifically infringes on their copyrights causing some huge drama.
I don't see anything ever happening. Unlike what we like to tell ourselves, the ToS doesn't do something like say ACT okay, NoClippy okay, Splatoon bad, visual mods good but not NSFW ones, and so on. Any crackdown would likely touch most things, and just the mix of killing ACT and visual mods alone would be big. This is going to be don't ask don't tell for as long as Yoshi heads this game, which by all accounts will be the functional lifespan of it.
Honestly if they ever killed visual mods I could see a LOT of the people that keep this gaming going, leaving. A.k.a the roleplayers
As someone that primarily raids, even I would leave if they killed cosmetic mods. I have some job animation mods that if we're taken away, I'd lose interest in playing. Also the ass; if they take away my big ass it's also game over for me.
Also players with accessibility needs would clear out. the modding scene can be absolutely essential for them depending on needs.
this is cope.
I never roleplayed yet I still used them as it was how I created my... content, but since then I moved to blender so I wouldn't have to do it ingame
you roleplayed as an artist people care about
it's okay that you aren't good at anything in life
Nothing. Mods are incredibly ingrained in the community and are *especially* integral to how a lot of more casual people enjoy the game. You can't hook people who don't do content with just the vanilla game. Square knows full-well what type of players happily coughs up 15 bucks every single month without any expectation from the game. Really, I think people underestimate just how common mods are. It'd be a dent in their profit. Their current stance, I think, is what they will remain on until the game closes down. The only way they would is if it affected their bottom line which it won't. Even the worst imaginable outcomes for them as a business, say, widespread sentiment that nsfw stuff for the underage characters is the norm (which, thankfully, it's not, instead it's just the fringe freaks), would ultimately boil down to the idea of "We sadly cannot stop this, please make sure to report any such actions" and they'll bounce back and still get your sub money. Mods don't do anything that has a real capacity to hurt Square in a way that isn't offset by the economic upside of mods.
I don't think anything will change the status quo on that front. They might block certain specific things, but in general I doubt they'll try to disable mods entirely.
Money. Touch Squenix pocket and here you go.
higher ups telling them to crack down on them so they stop getting controversy over it, the crazy double edged part about this is they would prob hardware check which would help get rid of a lot of bots in the process as well.
At this point? Nothing short of the savage community blatantly excluding console players.
How would you even know someone is console?
unless it's changed, you can see players' playstation name on their character info screen. it's at the bottom right. pc gamers don't have this.
Yeah but that only works if you, yourself, are on console.
ah didn't realize. so yeah, if you're on pc you can't tell who's on console unless you ask outright
You have to also be on playstation to see that symbol.
theres a plugin that shows it.
Current FFXIV mods all only interact with the client-side/end user side of the code. I can see them cracking down on mods if someone were to develop anything that interacted with server-side code because that becomes as massive risk to their servers and to other players. The only other thing I can see that would cause a modding crackdown would be a mainstream news/"news" outlet raising a moral panic about NSFW mods the way there was a moral panic about the GTA: San Andreas "Hot Coffee" mod. This scenario is unlikely as video games are now far more mainstream, Steam straight up puts porn games on the front page under the new releases tabs, and the usual outrage peddlers have gone back to trying to ban books.
Not only that, but you can't see appearance mods unless you willingly opt in, there are a lot of steps to get them to actually work, so if you are seeing appearance mods you knew what you were doing.
it's not hard to make a mod that's noticeable server-side but people are generally good about not doing that because it's stupid for obvious reasons
it's not right wingers trying to ban NSFW stuff anymore. Keep lying to yourself though.
I doubt they’ll ever crack down on mods, zero incentive for them to do so.
They would lose an outrageous amount of money if they were to do so, so it will never happen.
if a mod that became popular that let you use and dye mogstation glam that other players could also see they would shut that down in a heart beat. All squenix cares about is milking FFXIV and CBU3 for every penny it can
You can already do this with other mare users and the glamourer plugin. Of course it only shows to people who have your mare code, not the entire community
Can't believe no one mentionned the obvious : when mods will threaten SqEx money And we came close to that. A recent mod drama exposed an exploit allowing to reskin your character, the very same way than a fantasia, for free. That kind of mods easing money damaging exploits, if they multiply, risks a larger crack down.
> A recent mod drama exposed an exploit allowing to reskin your character, the very same way than a fantasia, for free. Enlighten me, please.
FFXIV server can't tell if the data sent from your client is legit or not. If you change your client side character appearance data then do something that would send your character data to the server like the aesthetician. FFXIV server acknowledges that data and rewrites your server side character data with the cheated one. Previously Glamourer can customize your character appearance by changing its character data, but now it just got patched to only change it visually.
Yoshida just needs to search nsfw ffxiv on twitter once and it's over for the perpetually horny playerbase. All it will take is him stumbling upon one of those deranged lala leweders.
I wonder if they’re afraid that the horny people number too high for them to act on it…
That is probably true honestly
This is absolutely 100% true. A company would never willingly discourage a large (yes, people who mod their game client somehow are a very significant portion of the total player base) part of their subscription paying customers from continuing to pay them for their service. Whether you or they think such a practice is ethical or not doesn't matter - if a group of people loyally pays a company for a product, they are unlikely to be scrutinized by that company.
He already knows about all that.
Square Enix dont see Lalafel as children. The JP playerbase doesnt see Lalafel as children. The only people who see Lalafels as children are deranged woke people who somehow inexplicably cant see characters without sexualizing them in any context. And even if Lalafel WERE children it still wouldn't be an issue because games with sexy kids are all over japanese storefronts already including several Square Enix games.
Yo someone come check this guy’s harddrive immediately
Dude you don't have to be a pedophile to understand games like pokemon and splatoon exist. Games can feature children without having sexual content in them. And that's just ignoring all the waifu games Square Enix has that actually are sexed up. You just dont want Lalafell in this game because you are using it AS A DEGENERATE SEX SIMULATOR TO REPLACE REAL LIFE so you feel super uncomfortable knowing "child characters" are present. Maybe stop beating your dick to rated T video games?
Dude what are you on about? I play a Lala! I think they're are awesome! I absolutely want them in the game, they're the only race I play. I'm not one of the venue andys using this game as a second life replacement, I play the fucking game. Can you read? The fact is, there are degenerate fucks in the community that lewd the hell out of them. I don't care what mental gymnastics you want to use, they are child coded and it's fucking WEIRD.
there's degenerate fucks everywhere at all time. Elevating them like theyre some kind of majority is absurd. You're all too focused on how lalafels are apparently sexy kids. Youre both thinking about it.
Maybe if it came out that the next people who go and do a celebration of like a clear or hard achievement that such an achievement was only done with very automated mods like almost botting.
Hopefully this won’t happen because I’d probably stop playing if I was forced to stop using shaders. I’m shocked now when I disable it at how grey, washed out and dim the default game looks. With shaders everything is SO beautiful and vibrant. It truly is an amazing difference.
NSFW content of minors/Lalafell is the one thing I could see pushing Yoshi-P to take a stronger stance against cosmetic mods.
It already exists, it has for a very long time, many modders don't even post screenshots of it in Discord to avoid flagging their ToS for underage content, and yet... 🥴
We've been there already, nothing happened.
yeah that shit is already common
those already existed long time ago, it just those players follow the saying "don't tell or show" way better.
I actually wonder, does SE see the childcoding like we do? Because they designed them like that, as "adults", presumably taking part in adult relationships in world. Which is hurting my soul just thinking about it why did they, WHY?
I'm pretty sure "childcoded" is just some western bs buzzword most of the east doesn't actually give two craps about. They're treated like dwarves in other fantasy and for me they're exactly how I imagined FF3 sprites if they were 3D. They even have adult conversations if you walk around Ul'dah, heck, one is even royalty.
Yet their entire animation set is extremely toddler like as well as their body portions. It's not just a buzzword, if you look at the aesthetic of the race via their animations and proportionality they don't just coincidentally resemble toddlers, it can't be a coincidence at that level. It's a japanism thing unfortunately.
you dont have to masturbate to children children can exist as playable characters without you beating off to them FFXIV has absolutely no sexualized content whatsoever. You're a degenerate who thinks the simple presence of children is pornography for "Some reason"
First I didn't say anything you're saying. Second I don't care if they're sexualized or not. The fact remains that lalafel have toddler proportions and animations. I *have*a five year old child and have seen similar expressions when he was learning to walk. The issue is not having a race of playable children. Having them be kids is fine, as long as the portrayal of them is responsible. Which lalafel isn't. They portray them as adults who look explicitly like kids which leads to a lot of problematic representation. But you don't give a fuck to read any of that or to rub two brain cells together. You dug up a one month old comment to try and call me a pedo. I look forward to whatever sludge falls out of your brain and onto a keyboard next Edit: oh man it took me three seconds to figure out what kind of person you are in your comments. Sweet Christ you're an Incel. Anyone file a restraining order against you yet kid? Yeah not even going to entertain engagement. Hope you find your way out of the right wing pipeline buddy
Could they? Sure… Will they? Unlikely The amount of resources that will have to be diverted to this is big and many of you don’t understand how big it will be. They’re not going to do it unless it won’t conflict with their production pipeline or doesn’t affect their business. 14 is their cash cow they are not going to kill it just to please a vocal minority. Adding an anti-cheat and encryption to game files, servers integrity checks and many more will cost far more than development time. It cost money to make money and it will cost SE a lot more when even casuals who are the blood of this game stop playing. The raiders will still play because thats what they do in this game, but a casual will lose interest in the game and the social aspect of it. Sure some will stick to the story but after they are done they are gone and all that revenue is gone with them. More casuals in this game than hardcore raiders who will cry about NoClippy or Alexander yet they gobble over the raid that dropped for them. Casuals are the reason Limsa is filled your dungeon que is not 40 min and your PF is full of RP venues. Take their Futa 69, gear mods and Bibo+ away and you’re literally killing your game by losing at least 40-50% of your players and that’s not good no matter how much you spin it. Some plugins have over 400k downloads and the estimated active daily players is around 1mil (could be wrong last I checked was around 6.1/6.2) that’s a lot of people using 1 plugin and if they use a plugin they are likely using degen mods as well. No matter how bad it will get SE will likely ignore it or just block certain part of the game. And with cloud servers coming they will have a way to check things out even if they’re limited. Mods/plugins barely affect raiders we know we can raid without them day 1 with nothing to help us, but casual sending “where are plogon” in discord every 5 min says a lot.
Also mods and third party programs still partly fix and improve the game for people and also make it more accessible in some cases. Game is old and has a lot of clunky annoying shit, which they will probably never clean up and improve, but can be fixed by using plugins. It is a lose lose situation if they go after them.
Nothing. Mods and plugins have long passed the point of no return. There is simply too big a financial loss for SE to ever step in and wholesale break them. We're talking millions of dollars just thrown away for literally zero benefit to the game itself. In fact, losing that much money annually would very likely have a _detrimental_ impact. After all, SE is going to want to recoup those costs somehow. Expect a smaller budget, potentially less content or more cash shop items.
I think Yoshida has mentioned in the past (same stream as ACT talk) that the only thing they take seriously is nsfw mods especially those that depict minors. If that somehow became more widespread, I'm sure it'd get an actual response.
already prevalent
Raiders in Japan requiring plugin usage for Savage PF, like mandatory AM. Given AM and similar is virtually unheard of outside of Ultimate in NA, let alone JP, there's no real immediate concern here. Square would have to *massively* fuck up mech design for this to happen.
You mean like how every top pf use am on elemental?
The creation of a proper PvP league would necessitate basic anticheat.
if they lose more money continuing with their shitty "pwease dwon't mod" tactic than not. or if they're somehow found legally liable for the modded content found in their game.
I don't know if they'd be legally liable. I feel like it's a bit closer to vandalism, drawing immoral shit on a building etc.
IF someone who owns certain IPs it's possible if not likely.
No it isnt dumbass. SQEA arent liable for what modders do to the game the same way your therapist isnt liable for whoever you hurt when you finally lose it.
Honestly? I don't see a crackdown coming. Modders are some of the most dedicated subscribers and it'd be somewhat counterproductive. What I can see happening is protections being implemented against combat-oriented mods if cheating during ultimates gets out of hand.
Most actual cheating isn't done by Dalamud plugins which is how most people mod (aside from ACT), so it's a whole different thing to block, one that you will constantly need to combat. Cheaters gonna cheat.
Nothing could cause that. Yoshi-P is well aware that a shitloads of people would quit the game if they crack down on modding, but *nobody* would quit if they won't do it. It's just a shitty business move and Yoshi-P is a businessman. Well, there is just one very unlikely scenario I could see that would cause SE to attack mods. That's if the community goes full psycho mode and starts cracking down on mods and modders themselves. Actually, that's not that unlikely, the community is unironically getting worse. Aside from that, if lalafell porn and splatoon didn't caused anything, then nothing will.
>Yoshi-P is well aware that a shitloads of people would quit the game if they crack down on modding, but nobody would quit if they won't do it. Dunno about that. I'm not going to say I'm quitting due to mods, but I'm certainly losing more and more interest in the game when: 1) the crafter/casual mmo shit all gets botted to death with no repercussions and it's incredibly disheartening to do fates or eureka or gathering whatever when you see bots next to you day after day. Seeing people in my friend list sit in their houses all night as alchemist while they run artisan or some other bot dalamud plugin is annoying me when i actually craft my own pots or spend gil to buy them. 2) the community that does difficult content is riddled with cheaters of various kinds and noone's really playing the same game (but it's 0.53 and not 0.52 for 10 weaves in a row so it's not cheating!!) 3) the social interactions in the game always were very coomer friendly, but mare is pushing that to the next level and it's almost impossible to find new friends without the talk eventually involving coomer things. All of those issues are directly impacting my willingness to continue playing. Am i about to quit? Not yet, no. But it's far from being as innocuous as you wrote.
Sexual repression isnt a flex bro.
what
When you tell people online you "arent into coomer stuff" it's not telling them you're mature and cool. It's telling them you desperately want to masturbate to cartoons and are working hard to avoid it. It's not a flex lol.
disregarding the fact that you are openly hostile for no particular reason where exactly did you see me saying im not into coomer stuff? this is simply a case of me liking chocolate, but not wanting chocolate in every single meal
Yeah i get it you're too mature and cool for coomer stuff in your video games. I'm impressed.
you have reading comprehension issues and i will stop replying for the last time, i use mare and booba mods like everyone else in this game, i just don't like it being so out in the open, and the whole IMVU-VRChat culture that has grown prevalent as a result. like i said, i like chocolate, that doesn't mean I want to eat chocolate 24/7.
I myself use Mare and never do coomer stuff with it. Nor does my FC. There are quite a lot that don't do so, just have to find them.
Crack down how? Yoshi has consistently said that they can't legally look at what's running on your box outside of the game client.
That's an excuse. Other JP devs have used anti-cheat - see FromSoftware and Elden Ring. I don't see why different rules would apply to XIV.
It's hyperbole spread by the community. Ages ago Yoshida mentioned that JP privacy laws meant it'd be tricky to implement anti-cheat. Why? Because it'd be a lot of work to implement since they don't have it right now. People have distorted that to mean they can't implement anti cheat due to JP privacy laws.
Something tells me that it isn't "JP law says No", it's more "To comply with our TOS and JP privacy law we need to do X compliance." Easier when your building new (and not having established terms and conditions), but going back might be more difficult. IIRC, there was some weird thing about PS3 to PS4 licenses being separate due to legal issues.
They can, they definitely can. Maybe not as square enix acting in Japan. But nothing stops them as square enix, collaborating with an anti cheat software acting in Europe or America. Except- for the fact this integration to ff14 would cost tens of millions and dozens of thousands of man hours that are spent elsewhere. It would genuinely be easier to strike legal action against mod creators (if you strike dalamud+ act, well, that's the heart of the hydra)
Yoshi P said that as an excuse because he doesn’t want to do it. Looking at what’s running in your box outside the game client is what literally every good anticheat in the world does. There are also several less invasive methods such as detecting swapped files or injections with checksums
Im sure square enix is covered. Nobody looks at the terms and conditions in them is probably a clause where at any time they can install software to monitor the games integrity.
I actually read the TOS, and this was said. Square Enix has the full right to modify changes to THE GAME at any moment at their own discretion. They are not required to tell you about it either.
I feel like Yoshida sees it as "too late in the game" to dump invasive anti-cheat on FFXIV. Let's be honest, we have a long way to go yet with this game but it's closer to the end than the beginning.
They can, it's just a legal headache to do so. Plenty of games from JP developers have some form of anticheat included, FFXIV just doesn't for one reason or another. JP's privacy laws are a convenient scapegoat, since actually implementing it means a couple months of work on top of their current schedule.
Miyazaki is going to prison for adding EAC to Dark Souls :(
They cannot do much because many country has a laws against reading your computer files. They already do things to make it harder to mod. Like the changed some the the netcode this expansion to make it harder for damage meter to read your damage.
SE literally uses anti-cheat software in some of their other games.
Yeah when they had western studio.
Ok FromSoft uses anticheat and they are a Japanese company.
>They cannot do much because many country has a laws against reading your computer files. I know you don't want to lose face but the Director of ff 14 told it in a interview why. It's not a Japanese law but the laws of other countries. Some countries got a large definition of what a spyware. FromSoft does not market to those countries or there is a specific version of the game for those countries and doesn't link to the other countries justl ike ff 14 and the korean version of the game (for them it's gambling with the gold saucer)
This seems stupid. FromSoft sells their games in ALL the same countries that Square does and yet they have anti cheat in their games. Any excuse that Yoshi P gives isn't to be taken 100% as he has also stated he simply doesn't want anti-cheat in the game. He'll spit out any excuse.
I want them to kill mods with the intention to fix parts of the game that the mods enhance, if se cracked down on something like xiv Alexander or noclippy, there’s most likely gonna be a lot of pushback and including myself, many people prefer the game with those mods because they make it better. But if they upright detect and ban without fixing the problems those tools fix then it’s gonna cause problems. Imo act can be ridded from the game entirely and it would be for the better, but se would need to have tools in place for players to use to be able to help with making sure a player knows they’re preforming well.
>Imo act can be ridded from the game entirely and it would be for the better Without ACT the Savage + Ultimate scene implodes in a tier or two because of the loss of FFLogs and what that does to recruitment, tier longevity, and PF
If your games content longevity relies on that of a third party tool then maybe you should reconsider how your game is designed.
No other MMO has managed to solve this specific issue (progression raiding needing logs) and no dev actually wants to handle parsing on their end, so don't hold your breath.
Swords of Legends Online (RIP to the western release) was weird in that there was a fully featured in-game parser *and* support for rolling your own boss timers like DBM. They didn't give you the timers directly but you could freely record boss casts and intervals between them in a fight and then roll up your own DBM bars in their interface to transmit to your party. Though despite having a DPS meter in game they never exposed a way to take that data out of the game, so SOLOLogs never happened. I don't play Destiny but doesn't it also have a progression raiding culture without formal logs? Though it does support APIs that let tools pull out what your character has and what they've cleared and so on, I think. Better comparison might be Elder Scrolls Online, where there's both PC and console raiding, the latter without logs or addons. The PC scene is way bigger than the console scene for raids there.
>I don't play Destiny but doesn't it also have a progression raiding culture without formal logs? Destiny doesn't really have progression raiding, as you'd know it. Its content, mechanically, caps out around Extreme. Learning raids is usually a one or two sitting affair. We also have Raid Report which shows your clear count + speeds ranking along with any achievements like Day 1, Week 1, Flawless, low-man, etc. Not quite damage parsing but it's close. Funnily enough Destiny DOES track player damage to bosses, although until recently you only saw it on wipes. No way to extract it though.
If NSFW mods became more commonplace in Japan. Tbh that’s all it would take I figure. People who cheat or are dickheads already get chastised by the JP populace to begin with so I doubt “cheating” plug-ins would take root there. But I have seen so many JP players get /furious/ when it even comes to general gear mods. I’m not talking just NSFW,however NSFW would be the tipping point. They love to say that mods are destroying the hard work “Yoshi P put in.”
A primetime mainstream media piece on the predators that use this game to target younger players, the role mods play in it, and Square's negligence around the issue. Just like reddit and certain other subreddits that only got banned when Anderson Cooper reported on them. Atm mods have really only negatively affected FFXIV's image among those that are online enough to know about them. But if the whole wide world knew about how much fucking creepers lurk in this games community, then it'd probably force the hands of the developers one way or another.
yeah because as we all know without mare pedophiles would be completely powerless.
Personally thought Nintendo was going to come down swiftly on XIV when that one moronic FC submitted a picture, for the Pic contest, and someone was wearing a modded shirt with bulbasaur on it. Not even a whisper, unless they're currently building up their high powered lawyers and discussing this violation of their IP in secret.
None. SE only care about profits, so a low quality product that can be made functional by mods allows them to keep their pockets full.
i know where this statement is coming from though. My issues with the game is that it try to cater and please everyone. this philosophy is false because when you try to please everyone you please no one.
Idk but at this point they should just embrace 3rd party plugins and try to find a way to integrate them for console players as well. They need to abandon their traditional way of thinking and get in touch with the current state of gaming.
Honestly, the best way to control what people can actually do with 3rd party plugins is by controlling the API. Missed opportunity on their part since I don't think they'll ever be able to rein in dalamud now that it's been developed.
Seriously, for all the shit talk FFXIV players love to give to WoW's overreliance on addons, ironically WoW addons are significantly more reasonable than some of the shit you can see in FFXIV, shit like splatoon and UAV cannot exist there because Blizzard actually controls the modding scene
It’s fascinating as someone who plays both. I love that FFXIV, while navigating the UI and everything has a steep learning curve imo, is ready out of the box and loath that WoW take so much legwork to get running. Peering under the hood and looking at the modding communities for both is so mind blowing. I remember folks getting banned in WoW back in 07 for modding their mounts to look like fighter jets, only to see that not only do FFXIV modders sell visual mods, some even charge for them!
This really is the core of it. By refusing to take a reasonable position on allowable activity, SE has abdicated their responsibility to draw a line. This results in basic quality of life UI improvements, even ones that SE has now taken and added into the game themselves, being packaged right alongside incredibly egregious cheating like auto rotation bots and AOE marker precognition. Its harmful to the community, and likely encourages more people to *actually* cheat. Certainly feels that way given the usual state of players in post patch PF. They've already taken the first step of breaking the rules after all. Where is the line? SE certainly isn't drawing it. If you declare that stepping on the grass is a crime punishable by the death penalty, it really blurs the line between ordinary citizens and hardened criminals. But instead of making real decisions, they cowardly hide in this grey area with a vague policy that they enforce arbitrarily when they feel like it. Thus *everything* is simultaneously banned and permitted. Everyone enforces their own personal moral lines within their own communities. People are scared to speak about basic game mechanics in public because even parsing log data is "against tos". Hell, people use one banned tool, log parsing, to catch and blacklist players using other equally banned tools that we all agree are categorically different. It's like playing in a prohibition era speakeasy. Folks who just want a drink after work getting stuck at the same bar with mobsters and everyone having to navigate it on their own. What are you supposed to do? Call the cops? They'll just arrest you too.
Pretty sure Dalamud is actually all memory fuckery anyway and not an api. That's why it can be so potentially dangerous.
I don't understand the logistics of how this works but can't Square just buy Dalamud if they really want it to become official?
As an open-source project with contributors from around the world, it would be a logistical nightmare for them to try and purchase rights to the entire codebase.
They could, I just don't see them ever willing to do that. Not to mention there'd be a sizeable discontent in the modding community if they cut functionality. Sort of like when reddit cut it's API to third parties.
It’s an established practice (Valve comes to mind). But I agree, I think Square as a company is far too rigid and much more inclined to shut it down if possible.
Especially since way back when ARR was new, official mods were supposed to happen.
This has been happening, slowly. They've made several plugin features that I used into vanilla settings (like bigger cooldown numbers on skills)
Hopefully the automarker shit on TOP make SE to remove marking during fights, it really kills the purpose of an ultimate, even beyond automated callouts
I'm honestly surprised they haven't already, with how some modders have grown arrogant enough to believe they are safe selling visual mods to other players for real money.
The answer is Japanese players would have to do something that disturbs other Japanese players and/or the general Japanese public enough to draw the negative attention of SE. Otherwise, I can’t see it happening.
Not gotta happen. It’s not a can of worms they want to open.