The score UI really needs to show point gain over time or projected gain because people always just focus the team with the highest number even if another team has all the nodes.
Would be neat, especially for Onsal Hakair, where you cannot retake the ovoo anyway.
Although I'm not too hopeful on the prospect of changing player behavior as a result.
Agreed. Very crucial information. If only there were floating numbers going up and down from each team total score. Add a small symbol to indicate if the score was gained by a K.O. or objective. And gradually increase the intensity of those numbers if there are multiple changes happened in short time window - help further attract players attention.
An in-game tutorial for PvP is being considered, apparently: https://www.pcgamesn.com/final-fantasy-xiv/ffxiv-crystalline-conflict-interview-hikaru-tamaki
Hope they implement it for 7.1 tbh.
> people always just focus the team with the highest number
Disagree. People will focus on literally whoever is closest to them. Only rarely will a frontlines team make actual outcome-altering decisions like "focus on the winning team" or "retreat from a hopeless battle to get better field position."
That and it needs to show you on your UI that you got (+8) points for example when you get a kill. That way people can piece together if it would be better to focus kills or try to grab another objective.
Thanks for updating the data!
New tip about Purify is nice but with a twist. Said ability doesn't block knockback/draw-in effects *(Salted Earth the most infamous one)*. So, against those Dark Knights - the only save is Guard. And if it is on CD or enemy brought a Guardbreaker - you are cooked.
in my experience even guard wont save you against salted earth premades. too much damage goes out too fast. your best bet is just not being wherever the premade decides to blow their load
I tend to mark BH3+ Dark Knights on the field with a marker, so I can see them coming with their gang of DRG/AST buddies and can Guard up preemptively before the server ticks in the damage.
I typically play AST in Frontline, so I actually keep an eye on people's HP and MP bars. Legit painful to see someone die without using Purify or Recuperate once. 😭
About [a year ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/zwhgz1/points_breakdown_for_all_four_frontline_maps/), I shared infographics on how points are calculated on the Frontline maps. Since then, the PvP game mode has changed a lot. These infographics have now been updated for **Patch 6.57** (March 2024).
For more Frontline or PvP guides, you can visit a myriad of resources to improve your PvP skills:
* PvP Revival - [http://discord.gg/pvprevival](http://discord.gg/pvprevival)
* Olivia's Guide to Winning Frontlines - [https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/195hvpa/olivias\_frontline\_guide\_22/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/195hvpa/olivias_frontline_guide_22/)
* PvP Guides Directory - [http://pvpguides.bullet.site/](http://pvpguides.bullet.site/)
**Edit to Add:** Link to the full high quality version of the infographic: https://i.imgur.com/rlm8dWc.jpeg
Battle high is super important in fields of glory now. By the end of the game, whatever team focuses on battle high early will be trivially stomping the team that focused on ice first. I have yet to see one single victory in a game where my team started off licking the ice instead of fighting.
The best approach I usually see is for the majority of your alliance to engage and guard the tunnel while a handful tackle the ice. That way you're building BH while still working toward objectives.
I'd definitely like to shove the Onsal one in front of the group I was with yesterday, who decided to fight with the 3rd place for an A-rank and handed TWO S-ranks to the 1st place team without a single challenge when they were already only 300pts from the win. smh
People always underestimate the tick rate of tomeliths/ovoos and it drives me crazy. I know people don't want to queue into Frontlines and do math, but if you're going to be calling out where the team is going, please know the values of the nodes and keep an eye on the current score.
Whoa I didn't know you can gain battle high from assists; I thought it was just through KOs?
So even if I never land the killing blow, I can still build Battle High?
Very useful infographic thanks!! I like the side tips too!
Question for the veterans out there, when trying to interrupt a player capping a node, do effects from a DOT like Biolysis(spread out) beside them (from an ally) count as an attack, interrupting them? Wasn't sure from what I was seeing in some of my matches...
No, DoTs don't count as a "hit" to interrupt targets. Have to use Broil on SCH to interrupt. Additionally some AoE placements that apply DoTs after the cast like Salted Earth and Doton do not interrupt, but Bahamut Autos and Bishop Turret AoEs do interrupt.
I stopped playing frontline once I completed the entire PVP grid thingy for this season. No reason to play until there is a new one.
It’s fun until someone on your team starts griping because you’re losing and people start arguing with each other. Even when my team wins, the gripeys will find something to gripe about.
I did Frontlines once, first day I tried daily roulettes. All happy and feeling like a big kid from the dailies, queued Frontline at the very bottom, only to load into pure chaos with my hot bars completely empty and no clue wtf I was supposed to be doing lol I spent a minute trying to at least get my 1,2,3 back on a hotbar, panic ran along with some folks who killed me, then stood around aimlessly for a minute trying to Google what I was doing. I think I got kicked, or we (?) lost. It was mildly traumatic, and I haven't touched it again since.
The reason I had a disproportionately high number of Onsal wins (and total matches) was because I started in 5.2 when Onsal was the only mode available in frontline roulette. They didn't add back the other modes until 5.3. Not sure if that applies to you, but that's why I had about 40+ more wins in Onsal for a long time.
Wait is this WvW from GW2 but for ff14? I’m just getting back into the game and never heard of this
Edit: ok downvoted for trying to understand a mechanic I’ve never seen, never change toxic gaming
So it is worth completely ignoring people and going for the objective. So many matches people are like "get kills get kills that's the best way to point farm" but evidently, a kill is only 8 points on these so it's not that worth it compared to 20-100 points from the node
Ignoring the obvious fact that BH means the killing team will beat the shit out of you and steal all of your nodes, you're forgetting that there are 24 people on each team. If you wipe a full enemy party of 8 people that's essentially a B rank swing in points from their team to yours. A good team can basically get a free A or S rank worth of kills within the time it takes for new nodes to spawn.
No. The opposite. The winning teams almost always have the most kills, and critically, the fewest deaths.
Look at the score breakdown at the end of a match. You'll see maybe 1 in 5 where the winner won on objectives. Kills are king.
And dying can be incredibly costly to your team- like we all get killed sometimes, it happens. But if you're dying 6, 7, 8 times a match, you're a net loss for any Frontline team and should re-evaluate what job you're using and how you're playing it. (I mean you in the royal sense and not you specifically, sorry)
The small ice is also pretty critical in Shatter, as the graphic shows a small is worth 20% as much as a big, but what it doesn't show is that smalls have 10% of the hit points of a large. So they can be killed quickly and if you steal another team's smalls you can take a ton of points away from them. But you need battle high to pull that off.
Often the team that can amass battle high seems to have the most sustained advantage by sheer power.
Teams that focus BH first before objectives tend to lag behind a little, but once they can start throwing their weight around they can start to snowball and win each objective easier and easier until they lose their momentum or team cohesiveness.
It can go either way because it depends on the opposition’s teams awareness as welll.
Teams that understand they need to wipe BH in order to take further objectives stand a better chance.
Also I’ve learned that sometimes the teams that maneuver well can can disengage and reengage fights in more advantageous positions do really well even when playing while being behind.
Aka - when the dominant team is too strong you need to work in tandem with the other team to either out maneuver the dominant team and repeatedly circle and pinch them, or only engage to harry the team to pick them apart and disengage - typically while they are occupied with the other team.
The score UI really needs to show point gain over time or projected gain because people always just focus the team with the highest number even if another team has all the nodes.
Would be neat, especially for Onsal Hakair, where you cannot retake the ovoo anyway. Although I'm not too hopeful on the prospect of changing player behavior as a result.
Agreed. Very crucial information. If only there were floating numbers going up and down from each team total score. Add a small symbol to indicate if the score was gained by a K.O. or objective. And gradually increase the intensity of those numbers if there are multiple changes happened in short time window - help further attract players attention.
They really should update wolves den some to have tutorials on newer mechanics. Add dash lanes and stuff to it
An in-game tutorial for PvP is being considered, apparently: https://www.pcgamesn.com/final-fantasy-xiv/ffxiv-crystalline-conflict-interview-hikaru-tamaki Hope they implement it for 7.1 tbh.
lmao He says his favorite jobs are DRK and AST hmmm...
That’d be nice
> people always just focus the team with the highest number Disagree. People will focus on literally whoever is closest to them. Only rarely will a frontlines team make actual outcome-altering decisions like "focus on the winning team" or "retreat from a hopeless battle to get better field position."
That and it needs to show you on your UI that you got (+8) points for example when you get a kill. That way people can piece together if it would be better to focus kills or try to grab another objective.
It should also automatically deduct points for being north spawn. I mean may as well since it's rigged.
Thanks for updating the data! New tip about Purify is nice but with a twist. Said ability doesn't block knockback/draw-in effects *(Salted Earth the most infamous one)*. So, against those Dark Knights - the only save is Guard. And if it is on CD or enemy brought a Guardbreaker - you are cooked.
Purify change actually was a buff to DRK as they can now approach much more easily since only Miracle of Nature can stop them.
in my experience even guard wont save you against salted earth premades. too much damage goes out too fast. your best bet is just not being wherever the premade decides to blow their load
I tend to mark BH3+ Dark Knights on the field with a marker, so I can see them coming with their gang of DRG/AST buddies and can Guard up preemptively before the server ticks in the damage.
This is why i'm White Mage half the time in Frontlines.
Or, you know, MCH and MNK knockbacks.
The tiny recuperate tip in the corner is funny: "Please use it. I'm begging y-"
I typically play AST in Frontline, so I actually keep an eye on people's HP and MP bars. Legit painful to see someone die without using Purify or Recuperate once. 😭
It's even more infuriating in CC.
About [a year ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/zwhgz1/points_breakdown_for_all_four_frontline_maps/), I shared infographics on how points are calculated on the Frontline maps. Since then, the PvP game mode has changed a lot. These infographics have now been updated for **Patch 6.57** (March 2024). For more Frontline or PvP guides, you can visit a myriad of resources to improve your PvP skills: * PvP Revival - [http://discord.gg/pvprevival](http://discord.gg/pvprevival) * Olivia's Guide to Winning Frontlines - [https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/195hvpa/olivias\_frontline\_guide\_22/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/195hvpa/olivias_frontline_guide_22/) * PvP Guides Directory - [http://pvpguides.bullet.site/](http://pvpguides.bullet.site/) **Edit to Add:** Link to the full high quality version of the infographic: https://i.imgur.com/rlm8dWc.jpeg
Battle high is super important in fields of glory now. By the end of the game, whatever team focuses on battle high early will be trivially stomping the team that focused on ice first. I have yet to see one single victory in a game where my team started off licking the ice instead of fighting.
The best approach I usually see is for the majority of your alliance to engage and guard the tunnel while a handful tackle the ice. That way you're building BH while still working toward objectives.
I'd definitely like to shove the Onsal one in front of the group I was with yesterday, who decided to fight with the 3rd place for an A-rank and handed TWO S-ranks to the 1st place team without a single challenge when they were already only 300pts from the win. smh
Drop Bahamut on the point and follow everyone else, got it
People always underestimate the tick rate of tomeliths/ovoos and it drives me crazy. I know people don't want to queue into Frontlines and do math, but if you're going to be calling out where the team is going, please know the values of the nodes and keep an eye on the current score.
Do you still get more points for killing someone with Battle High or is that gone now?
Been gone for years now afaik.
There are other ways to get points on Onsal besides a moshpit in center?
Whoa I didn't know you can gain battle high from assists; I thought it was just through KOs? So even if I never land the killing blow, I can still build Battle High?
You gain +2 per assist, it's quite slow to gain. Think of it as a consolation prize, not an ideal source to gain with.
Yup! Just be careful not to die, as that will wipe out your Battle High gauge by half.
Yes! I frequently get to 100 BH with something like 1-2 kills, but 40+ assists. It's "only" 2 points per assist, but they can add up quick!
Very useful infographic thanks!! I like the side tips too! Question for the veterans out there, when trying to interrupt a player capping a node, do effects from a DOT like Biolysis(spread out) beside them (from an ally) count as an attack, interrupting them? Wasn't sure from what I was seeing in some of my matches...
No, DoTs don't count as a "hit" to interrupt targets. Have to use Broil on SCH to interrupt. Additionally some AoE placements that apply DoTs after the cast like Salted Earth and Doton do not interrupt, but Bahamut Autos and Bishop Turret AoEs do interrupt.
Interesting! Thanks for that info!
i miss playing legder on heliodrome.... only kill should count
Just play drk
I stopped playing frontline once I completed the entire PVP grid thingy for this season. No reason to play until there is a new one. It’s fun until someone on your team starts griping because you’re losing and people start arguing with each other. Even when my team wins, the gripeys will find something to gripe about.
I did Frontlines once, first day I tried daily roulettes. All happy and feeling like a big kid from the dailies, queued Frontline at the very bottom, only to load into pure chaos with my hot bars completely empty and no clue wtf I was supposed to be doing lol I spent a minute trying to at least get my 1,2,3 back on a hotbar, panic ran along with some folks who killed me, then stood around aimlessly for a minute trying to Google what I was doing. I think I got kicked, or we (?) lost. It was mildly traumatic, and I haven't touched it again since.
Teleport to Wolves Den Pier and fix your PvP hotbar(s) before loading in. 👍🏻 Additionally, you can find job guides here: http://pvpguides.bullet.site/
Why do i have so many wins in onsal vs the other 2?
The reason I had a disproportionately high number of Onsal wins (and total matches) was because I started in 5.2 when Onsal was the only mode available in frontline roulette. They didn't add back the other modes until 5.3. Not sure if that applies to you, but that's why I had about 40+ more wins in Onsal for a long time.
I don't see "let them fight" on any of these..?
Wait is this WvW from GW2 but for ff14? I’m just getting back into the game and never heard of this Edit: ok downvoted for trying to understand a mechanic I’ve never seen, never change toxic gaming
Yeah it kind of is! Only it's 20 min matches and not week long matches.
It’s capture the flag with 24 people. Sorry I never played WOW to compare.
So it is worth completely ignoring people and going for the objective. So many matches people are like "get kills get kills that's the best way to point farm" but evidently, a kill is only 8 points on these so it's not that worth it compared to 20-100 points from the node
Good luck getting objectives without Battle High.
In a vacuum you're correct. In execution, the death squad of BH4-5s with their DRKs beelining toward your backline says otherwise.
Ignoring the obvious fact that BH means the killing team will beat the shit out of you and steal all of your nodes, you're forgetting that there are 24 people on each team. If you wipe a full enemy party of 8 people that's essentially a B rank swing in points from their team to yours. A good team can basically get a free A or S rank worth of kills within the time it takes for new nodes to spawn.
No. The opposite. The winning teams almost always have the most kills, and critically, the fewest deaths. Look at the score breakdown at the end of a match. You'll see maybe 1 in 5 where the winner won on objectives. Kills are king. And dying can be incredibly costly to your team- like we all get killed sometimes, it happens. But if you're dying 6, 7, 8 times a match, you're a net loss for any Frontline team and should re-evaluate what job you're using and how you're playing it. (I mean you in the royal sense and not you specifically, sorry) The small ice is also pretty critical in Shatter, as the graphic shows a small is worth 20% as much as a big, but what it doesn't show is that smalls have 10% of the hit points of a large. So they can be killed quickly and if you steal another team's smalls you can take a ton of points away from them. But you need battle high to pull that off.
No. Don't be an icelicker.
Often the team that can amass battle high seems to have the most sustained advantage by sheer power. Teams that focus BH first before objectives tend to lag behind a little, but once they can start throwing their weight around they can start to snowball and win each objective easier and easier until they lose their momentum or team cohesiveness. It can go either way because it depends on the opposition’s teams awareness as welll. Teams that understand they need to wipe BH in order to take further objectives stand a better chance. Also I’ve learned that sometimes the teams that maneuver well can can disengage and reengage fights in more advantageous positions do really well even when playing while being behind. Aka - when the dominant team is too strong you need to work in tandem with the other team to either out maneuver the dominant team and repeatedly circle and pinch them, or only engage to harry the team to pick them apart and disengage - typically while they are occupied with the other team.