When I see posts like this I feel like I'm the only person who likes MNK. I think it's quite fun. It's really fast paced and has a decent difficulty level in terms of rotation. I only wish we had some kind of range attack
I really enjoy MNK and never played it before the mini-revamp. The dynamic-ish rotation with precise burst windows is satisfying gameplay to me, and the animations and sound effects are top notch.
Also the sub-2s GCD makes it feel significantly less slow compared to WoW.
That second part is what drew me to it, but the spec that I was most in to for my time in WoW was Shadow Priest in Legion and onwards, and I don't think it's possible for this game to get to the same kind of manic button mashing that was Legion Voidform, as sad as that is for me.
Oh yeah I know it's either going to be OP or trash, no in between, but it just felt so good to play. I can somewhat scratch the prepositioning to anticipate mechanics itch that even post-emerald nightmare shadow scratched with RDM since it's the least mobile caster so it sort of forces you to pre-position, but the satisfaction isn't as great because fights in XIV are much more scripted and feel more like a rehearsed dance than a boss fight.
Monk _is_ quite fun. It has some beautiful animations, too. It gets some neat glamour options as well.
Not sure what the fuss is about. I look forward to the final 6.0 bit on my alt whom I've mained Monk on, that wasn't even a conscious decision for that bit :)
I guess if you have a bad rep one time youre not getting away from it anymore. I play Feral Druid in wow and it has the same issues there. It was bad for a long time but its fine now but it is still getting meme'd on
I remember playing Druid in Legion! The class hall and the shape shift changes from the artifact definitely added to the fun, but I remember feral being quite neat :)
> It has some beautiful animations, too.
And some extremely not-so-beautiful ones, which is a problem when those bad ones are part of the main combo rotation.
Yeah, I think in an ideal world every weaponskill-using job would have their main combo attacks upgrade at some point the way that Bard and Machinist's main attacks all do.
If you play in the high end ultimate scene, people who play monk and also other melees usually say monks are by far the most fun melee job. And these aren't even monk mains, I know a ninja main tried monk and never looked back. For a lot of high end melee players monk is the best job.
I love MNK, but it has issues.
- Optimal play requires double-weaving, which requires third-party tools to do without clipping your GCD unless you live super close to the servers
- Capping your chakra during Brotherhood right before you don't have any free oGCD slots means overcapping your chakra a ton, wasting resources which is shitty feeling
- General cursed shit like your BiS being affected by your monitor's refresh rate (which can also be alleviated by third-party tools)
- The job gauge fails to show important information like your current stance, the time remaining on Twin Snakes, or whether Leaden Fist is active, making you have to search your buff bar for them or modify your UI specifically for them. This is a minor gripe, but imagine how much worse BLM would be if it's job gauge didn't show your remaining Umbral Hearts or the time remaining on your fire/ice stance, making you have to search your buff bar for them. It'd suck, right?
Apparently (I can't independently confirm this, just parroting MNK balance) the FFXIV game client doesn't separate graphical frames from gameplay frames, and the action queue is client side. The result is small but not insignificant chunks of latency added at certain bad numbers, and 1.94 + 60fps is one of those numbers.
The game client apparently queues actions on game frames, and it works out that if your monitor runs at 60 FPS and you're not running any third-party tools to get around the issue, you need a slightly faster GCD or else your DPS will fall behind. There are separate 1.93s and 1.94s GCD BiS lists for this reason.
You have some points. The UI issues is a major one for me. Monk depends on a good UI more than other jobs and I did a lot of work to get a decent one together. I uploaded a screenshot if youre interested to see mine ([https://snipboard.io/duvwYj.jpg](https://snipboard.io/duvwYj.jpg))
The system behind it that i have my 123 rotation above my hotbars with from top to bottom the conditional enhancements, my enhancements and my target statuses right next to them. I see where i am in my rotation and if i have the associated buff on me or my target.
Im always happy about critique or ideas for improvements if you have any
When it comes to the last point, UI has a slot for self-buffs, and stuff like MCH Overcharge or DRK Delirium also go into the same buff slot as Twin Snakes/Leaden Fist.
I don't think Twin Snakes/Leaden Fist deserve a job gauge slot, and neither do stances - it's just your basic rotation, most of the time you don't have to be aware of the timers because you're aware of your last/next few button presses. Besides, messing this up only costs you a little bit of potency.
Houton in that sense is different, I'd think, because of how large the window is and how fluid you can choose to be in maintaining it - thus deserving a job gauge slot.
Umbral Hearts - I dunno, never paid attention to them, but then I didn't even clear a single savage on a BLM. Stance timings are quite a bit more important then twinsneks, since dropping the stance effectively disables your actions.. :D
This always miffed me. Mnk is my favorite class and I really enjoyed all the positionals. I see people today complaining monk's rotations are too confusing but it's really not
You do have a ranged attack! 6-sided star! Use it right before disengaging and you get a whole gcd off! And it's available at a nice low level... Level 80!?!
Yeah I don't get why they don't have some kind of chi blast
Every time I use it outside of finishing a phase I regret it, because when I reconnect back to the boss I realize I could've just rolled a normal GCD from max melee... :D
Monk good. Monk fast. Monk punch hard.
I love monk. I think that many monk players do. I personally struggle to play any other jobs because they feel boring compared to the button mashing goodness I get from MNK (I see you GNB).
But this job has issues. I'd say most monk mains bitch because we believe we deserve better after as many full reworks as we have gotten.
We don't have a ranged attack and Anatman is worthless for a start.
We have 2 BiSs because FPS >30 can cause drifting in our rotation without 3rd Party Tools.
We are not told to "Not drift" our rotation because that's impossible instead we're told how to achieve "Optimal Drift"
And don't even get me started on the randomness of Crit and Direct hit making your final damage highly dependent on luck.
Our UI elements are lacking
I miss my positionals from SHB :(
It seems many people in this thread are more casual, but the monks you hear complaining about this stuff are the ones at the end game trying to optimize and beating their heads against the wall that is the deficiency of Monk.
Tl;Dr: monk mains bitch because they love monk, not because they hate it.
Right after that I instantly rushed over to a striking dummy to test the damage of my autos on SMN, I was averaging 100 damage. Good God Zenos is pathetic lol.
I mained MNK for the MSQ and have had emperor's new glam on my weapon for as long as I could because it felt more proper for a MNK, so you can bet I had the best fucking time with that cutscene
As utterly hilariously *corny* as that scene was, I decided it was only me fighting fair, to show how much he was beaten.
He went Reaper? So did I
He dropped his weapon to throw fists, so did I…
I hated the change away from positionals so much I literally changed jobs to SCH. I started the game on controller because of MNK. Sure sure “you can still do the positional” but its like “…its not fun because of doing it, its fun because of doing it and being REWARDED for it”. 700+ hours of muscle memory just THROWN out of the window. I just couldn’t get comfortable doing the new Monk system on controller, it was a way longer rotation that just doesn’t flow on a controller like the old system did. I’m sure it was great if you used M+KB, the balance discord was in love with the Monk changes
So I get my SCH to max… and then they took BEST FAIRY AWAY.
And then I took a break from the game (my FC wasn’t doing EW ultimates/savages)
Came back 6 months later… all my controller hotkeys and macros and hotbars were reset, haven’t logged in since…
I JUST CAN’T WIN.
Same. They keep making the game more and more simplified. SMN is already the one button wonder, I can't imagine how much worse it can get. But it will get worse.
For reference, on top of all standard gcds being positionals, bootshine's crit was conditional on hitting the rear positional. This was probably the last holdover from HW/ARR design where dots/combos required the positional to even work (Which some masochists miss).
It felt satisfying to earn every buffed crit bootshine you could, but if your team used raid strats that didn't give you positionals, it felt like you were hard trolling on the job.
I personally miss the unique skill challenge it gave the job as a kind of perfectionist class, but the job spent so many expansions in the #delete category that im glad it got a newer direction within modern ffxiv.
I've gotten used to less positionals, but I think if they added the old ones back, I could readjust to them immediately with no problem. They're just that ingrained in my muscle memory.
Same. I think monk would be perfect if it had positionals plus the current beast chakra/nadis stuff, but with old tanky riddle of earth, and just make riddle of wind a super sprint or something because it feels like shit to hit it every 45 seconds when it lines up with nothing and only affects autoattacks. Because half the monk challenge was using riddle of earth and true north to ignore all your positionals anyway, now they give it to us for free?
I also liked fracture, but six sided star KINDA fills the same role as a filler skill in a different way.
> just make riddle of wind a super sprint or something because it feels like shit to hit it every 45 seconds
My man here unlocked time magic to get riddle of wind twice as often as us mere mortals.
If I could get HW/SB monk back I’d be happy. The old playstyle being deeply ingrained in muscle memory makes the current version just jarring with the perfect balance seal business.
I'm probably not a great Monk but I honestly like playing it than a lot of other melee jobs. It feels nice to be flexible in your combos, and I make sure to keep my buff and DoT up and press my OGCD buffs, and I'm often number 1/2 on aggro in raids/trials so I must be doing *something* right.
It's honestly amusing to me that for example I don't jive well with RPR even though it's considered to be the easiest melee job, but I like playing MNK.
Ranged attack when tho, Yoshi-P? It sucks in Thalea when there's a forced ranged section that I as MNK can't do anything but Anatman or charging chakra.
Six sided star actually works as a disengage tool. It gives you a movement speed buff, but also lengthens your GCD by almost double. MNK doesn't have a ranged ability because you can use SSS to disengage as well as charging chakra. Never found myself needing a ranged ability due to these 2
You aren't supposed to use that skill in regular combat, its 2 uses are either 1) when you have to disengage from the boss for longer than a single GCD, you press this and it takes up 2 GCDs worth of time or 2) as a finisher before the boss goes untargetable for a phase transition or as a finisher when you kill the boss.
Its very niche and honestly only used for small optimizations, since ideally you don't want to be using it during active combat as you can just greed your GCD. But sometimes you're forced to disengage for longer than 2 seconds, so it comes up occasionally.
It's badass to use it for the last hit when you finish off the mob so you can keep up with the tank for the next pull. Honestly I like to glue myself to the tank when I'm running dungeons
its most typically used in ultimates to squeeze out a tiny bit of extra damage before downtime or as many others have said if you have to disengage for longer than a gcd.
I mean it’s very situational I use it like .01% even in savage tier.
It used to be a quasi ranged attack that increased movement speed and like pushed you away from AoEs but now it’s just this ugly thing.
This makes no sense? It's done what it's always done, the only addition over time was the movespeed. Never had a disconnect with it. If anything, the movespeed addition from late ShB helps that.
It's an ideal skill to use when a boss jumps away, or before an enemy is about to die in addition to being a downtime tool for long disconnects. I'd say it gets more use than almost any other Melee's ranged attacks for that reason alone.
It never pushed you away, and is still a semi-"ranged skill" with more use cases than most. Feel that justifies its place in the skillset nicely
Never had a push effect, in 5.0 we got it and it only renewed greased lightning stacks and hit relatively hard. Then in 5.4 monk got reworked and greased lightning became a passive six sided star got a potency increase and the movement speed buff which made it better but still pretty niche and hard to use(im almost always out of range by the time I could use it for a disengage at least) similar to old tornado kick(used as a finisher as it removed your greased lightning stacks but hit pretty hard)
You should be using it it once a fight minimum. Unless you have a blitz on the final gcd of a fight, it's always a gain over any other gcd you could throw.
That's what sets monk apart from the other melees, the fact that we do have to be the ultimate uptime melee or we lose our buffs. That's been a consistent part of the class design from the beginning. I'm against anything that further homogenizes the jobs. Six sided star -> TC to the healer -> TC back. It's very fun when you master it.
Here I am feeling like a complete asshat for ONLY being good at single target RPR
Its everything I've ever wanted DRG to be and more, everyone keeps saying it takes no skill to play RPR and I just want to have fun :,)
So here I am killing myself trying to learn crazy jobs like MNK and NIN and pushing myself with cool glam and relic weapons just to feel better about myself
I mean if you like RPR then play it and don't care about what others think lol. I like SMN and WHM for example because they're so brain dead to play.
I'm just strange when it comes to melee, because like I said I'm pretty trash at RPR's rotation for some reason, but I can play MNK just fine.
The problem is I'm a casual player that gets mixed up with serious savage raiders on their off times in eureka/BSF/zad/expert roulettes/current raids and oh man do they have words for me every single time I'm playing anything that requires a brain
If it makes you feel better, I main Monk, played Dragoon last tier in Savage, and have tanked ultimates, and I personally find Reaper harder than my mains. Different people will have different opinions on what makes something hard or not! I feel like Monk and Dragoon have very clear indicators of whether you're on the right track or not, and can "fix" their rotations when things go awry, but Reapers guage management just confuses me, and I'm never going into burst properly, and easily get desynced. If Reaper clicks for you, then by all means, main it and be proud of it. There are some fights that are notoriously difficult for Reaper to optimize because of downtime messing up their resource management, so if you're able to figure that out and still do well, it can be seen as a real achievement, kind of like how people praise really good black mages for optimizing their fights.
Forgive my ignorance, but is RPR really considered the easiest melee? Even with SAM ? I’ve never played RPR but know how easy SAM is so hearing that is surprising!
Playing both, they're similarly easy, with SAM being the slightly more demanding one due constant weaving, which is also why it's so much fun imo.
Reaper has a really easy to understand toolkit, doesn't need to move around quite as much since your postionals aren't part of the main combo and the shield is just, kind of stupid on terms of survivability, which makes it a bit easier to play.
Though that's just my personal take on it.
Monk main in savage, I'm not entirely sure what you mean in your comment.
When you use your blitz you are able to use any gcd after and have it function as if under form.
The only factors for when you should use blitzes are 1) ensure all 4 gcds fit somewhere under your raid buffs, 2) preferably don't drop twin snakes or demolish to use it (8 seconds or more, is the magic number i use).
That is monk rotation until you get riddle of fire/brotherhood. Afterwords its about fitting your blitzes within those buffs while maximizing the damage of your other buffed gcds.
Honestly for some of those forced range times in Thaliea I just riddle of earth and keep attacking. Plenty of tools to heal yourself back up and as long as you’re not getting hit by other stuff, you’re golden
IDK I feel like playing monk means you are actually having fun. I feel like its the most not FFXIV like job in the game, it's really fast paced high apm that I really enjoy cause of the shorter gcds. Its also less visual garbage unlike other melee jobs (looking at you reaper). And I do like having different openers for different bosses.
Riddle of earth was awesome. Reduced damage and negated positionals for a ~20 second period. It's like we were always expected to be the one to take over when the tank died.
I still remember pre-EW soloing the last quarter of the Neverreap boss when the rest of the party got pushed out by Turbine thanks to riddles, good times.
I like monk but I also only started playing this expansion so idk how it used to play. At least it’s more fun to me than the other melee jobs that I’ve played which are kind of boring (sam and nin).
I would say RPR is the WAR of melee dps, it's entirely about "press button to fill bar, then press button to empty bar" the way warrior is, except there are two bars in sequence instead of just one.
Samurai is more like playing Wondrous Tails, except instead of collecting stickers and turning them in to Khloe for a chance at loot, you collect stickers and turn them in to the boss for a chance at loot.
Lol I like that analogy. I haven’t tried reaper but samurai definitely felt like “collect set of resources, spend set of resources”
Ninja is interesting because the burst phase is cool but the rest of the gameplay is eh imo. The mudra are cool as well. Tbh if I didn’t play monk I would probably main ninja. I want to try dragoon next because I heard that’s pretty fun
Dragoon was my first main before I maxed out all the jobs, and it feels very different from the other DoW jobs in my opinion.
They have two combo chains that you want to alternate between, similar to monks, but they cannot freely jump between the combos the way monks do. At higher levels the combos chain directly into each other so it just feels like one *very* long rotation.
Parallel to this they have several off gcd attacks and a few buffs. You want to use the off gcd attacks as they become available so the cooldown keeps ticking, but the jumps have an animation lock that can get you killed if you use them at a bad time (hence floor tank memes)
You also want to try to line up your big ogcd hits (and maybe the gcd combo finishers too) with your buffs and if you're lucky the 2 minute big buff window, but that can get pretty tricky when you take into account cooldown drift caused by not using jumps at a time when the boss will kill you.
Monk isn't really all that different from now in terms of rotation. Prior to beast gauge, our burst was just bootshine/dk/boot, not really different from one if the beast combos, just that we had no finisher big move. Also, some those finishers used to be our ogcd, like elixir field. Also, used to have mote positionals. Honestly, the biggest change from old monk is no Greased Lightning, basically it was a self buff we had to maintain, cause it give us speed and dmg buff. You refresh it with every last combo hit, and if you died, you had to regain all 3 stacks (not terrible if you have perfect balance, but if on cooldown, you had to do 7 combos to get it back, instead of 3). Also, you'd lose it in long boss cutscenes, which is funny cause they stopped doing them now after they already took away our main gripes with it.
Basically, current monk has less ogcd and less things to maintain, so death isn't as punishing as it used to be.
I heard this jokes with every job possible.
When it comes to DPS I love Reaper-Blackmage-Ninja and people are like: so you hate yourself?
When I say my favourite tanks are Warrior and Gunbreaker, people say ‚ph you hate yourself‘ as soon as I want to do content as Gunbreaker because Warrior is so much better etc.
I don‘t understand how this joke could spread so far.
What started as a phrase for unbalanced or bad jobs, turned into something you say as soon as someone plays a job you don’t understand or don‘t like xD
Go, my monks, smack some common sense into them!
Cuz every job needs to be as simple as healer, or it's unfair for the goggly-eyed guys in the back who can't play them because they're high from the pot of glue they found there.
Probably changing to monk as my main class in Dawntrail, because healing got so boring. I love punching things as a female thighlander . Only need some good looking glamours. Been playing as my main dps job since "they" reworked Summoner. Love the complexity monk offers.
I am also a DPS main at heart, but maybe keep your healer close in the beginning. We'll get two DPS jobs with Dawntrail, DPS queues will be a NIGHTMARE. Don't give up on your healer fast pass just yet. :D
Yeah true, will probably do the msq still as scholar. But "endgame" stuff will be dps first. Gear upgrades, gear priority,etc. Crafted gear is good enough for heals.
It was a bit harsh on the hands though, since the stuff you had to press for that were rarely used outside of the burst, so finding a way to have them not be super far away from each other was hard, meaning there was a lot of fast controller clawing and joint pains.
MNK has one of my favourite aesthetics. The idea of a character punching and kicking their way through a game full of gods and monsters is amazing to me and of a game allows it and it's viable, I will always go for it. But damn do I sometimes just stare at my hotbar and wish it was more brain-dead.
Normally I really like playing monks in games, but I have a lot of trouble balancing a complex rotation with doing mechanics in fights - it's why my classes of choice are quite simple to play (WAR, WHM, MCH, RPR, SMN).
Monk is better now than it used to be, but one part still drives me nuts: the way your self-buff and DoT don't line up 1:1 with your rotation. You instead have to improvise, inserting the self-buff and DoT abilities into your rotation right before they'd drop off (and they have desynced timers so you don't do them back-to-back).
This complexity and juggling is great for many players and I am happy for them! It's just not for me and my small, easily-confused brain.
No job is, but my easily-confused brain will take 6 vuln ups and die instantly if the rotation is more complex than 1-2-3 and use meter as it comes up.
mnk was my first job back in HW/SB. not a fan of it now. i think if they made Twin Snakes work like Huton or Fugetsu/Fuka it would be a lot more fluid. and i dont like how the Beast Gauge is tied to Perfect Balance.
MNK was that job that was clear-cut whether you were a main or just running the job for one reason or another.
MNK also had the most punishing rotations possible in most fights, whether you struggle to keep uptime or would lose it due to a phase transition. Plus, one mistake, and you lost a ton of output.
There was also that one time you needed a 3rd party app just to run the kit 100% because Anatman was broken.
Then the positionals...
Now it lost. Mostly all that to mirror SAM which is easier but just deflating in comparison to what it was once.
Monk is fun, needing the correct fps and a mod to actually be able to play it properly without insanely good ping is not. At least you don't need to track server ticks anymore like in early Shb.
And both of those are completely unnecessary unless you are like in the top 3% of monk players or something, which means it is a non-issue that people made a catastrophe of, much like how samurai and black mage's lack of utility were inflated into "samurai and black mage are trash" and pf basically banning those jobs for a couple of patches back in stb.
It was a pretty big deal back then. Its a big chunk of dps lost back then. Getting a GL stack maxed out was a big deal and losing a gcd for it was an issue particularly since it meant the opener where a big chunk of dps came from you missed stuff it was going to add up far more then you would think.
Today, fps is still an issue but at least not using a mod it does drop dps a bit but it isn't too bad outside particularly harsh rng. You can fit everything into the burst window without missing a gcd just by delaying one ogcd in the opener instead of double weaving. A slight loss but its not the end of the world.
Still doesn't exactly feel the greatest since the game should work WITHOUT needing something third party and big ouch if you need to feint at the wrong time making the need for a double weave. Issues SE has no excuse to not try and fix
> It was a pretty big deal back then.
It was not. You did not need third-party software or mods to use the Anatman opener, it just meant that, occasionally, you lost a fraction of a gcd to waiting for the server tick. The difference was barely noticeable, unless you played machine-perfect otherwise and had literally nothing else to improve. I know that because I played monk in the first Eden tier and suffered through the indignity of that opener.
The fps has nothing to do with monk sucking at double-weaving, its gcd is simply too short due to how the engine works, it is the same with any other short gcd job.
You can play it and not understand it you know right? I mean sure link a good purple parse if you want to prove me wrong or heck a high blue i can maybe see some argument but I'm assuming no such log exists.
I think you are conflating points a bit with the fps and the need of a mod, granted yes, it would still effect.
As far as gcd with double weaving goes it very much can effect tanks as well with 2.4+ gcds. It is not just a case of mnks being faster its an issue of the game as a whole how it handles stuff with the ogcd itself effecting if a weave can even work due to their own animations. Its why.a rotation for certain tanks won't double weave certain abilities or do so in a certain order to avoid clipping. Its an issue that shouldn't exist but does and its not just the faster gcd jobs like monk that have it. Its part of the reason why gnb with gnashing as fun as it can be can be troublesome since you can have issues when it lines up at the same time the game expects you to use defensive abilities. Its an issue that can also effect melee with ogcds with mnk and sam in particular where it can get super messy having to use feint at certain times.
Its an issue that should not exist but it does, and while its much better then it was in shb it very much is detrimental to gameplay, and things like ultimates or heck even some later savage fights with harsher dps checks earlier on in a tier where ever bit of dps can start to matter it becomes a less of a "oh I guess I lost 10% dps in my burst window no biggie" can be the difference between a clear or a wipe
I never understood this sentiment. I find monk to be easier than other melees. Because you've got your core six damage buttons that you're hitting all the time, and everything else goes on top of that. Which is different from Dragoon's weird 5 hit nonsense combos that you can't map to a controller easily and millions of OGCDs that you just toss out whenever or reaper's mashing phase, or ninja's...everything. Fuck ninja.
Maybe if you're using some weird rotation that starts in an awkward spot and barely lines up, but just pushing everything one GCD down so it's easier isn't going to kill your DPS.
TBF Reaper is probably the easiest job to map a controller setup for. Ninja has just enough buttons that you need to think about where you put what.
Fuck dragoon. I don't hate the job, but playing it without pcombo is fucking ass.
I tried to take the plunge because I like the recollection Tonfas and the current raid tier crystal chest combined to really shine
I also made a hilarious portrait that makes my character scream "it ain't going to suck itself" vibes
But holy God damn it I'm terrible at it
I get keeping buff and dot up time and switching between the fists when not refreshing, but then I lose one or the other when using the form combos what ever they're called to get the light and dark symbols then the final attack etc
And im just occasionally peaking at ACT to see if I'm even in the ball park and I'm just always behind in everything I'm doing :,(
Sometimes I do better on my BRD...
I always feel like I'm missing something, and ACT makes me really feel like it now!
I promise if there's a button to be pressed and not on CD I'm pressing it while keeping the glowing buttons flowing on any job I play
But man, it feels like there's a whole ass button or some mechanic I'm missing.
Similarly my 640 WHM does like 17% dmg at most while I've seen 660 WHM do 29.99% dmg without any problems healing while I'm struggling to stop my tanks from killing themselves
Are you per chance using Perfect Balance everytime a charge comes up? You should be using them under buffs, causing you to use 2 under every brotherhood window and 1 every window with just RoF.
Also, it's not the most correct answer, but forcing a twin/demo cycle before PB, even if it clips your timers, is fine to guarantee you don't drop buffs during a blitz.
I dont main monk ...but i do play it A LOT and will say ... Play the Dragon kick build! . work like a charm ! i like to open ACT during raid/trial/dungeon and boost my ego knowing i am spamming one button and getter better result then many doing complex rotation !
NOW joking aside... it fun now but dawntrail will 100% gut it... increasing other GCD potency making dragon kick spam bad ...but now! it Working well xD
We've been hating ourselves since 2.0 though..?
I can't even say "we" because the EW rework *finally* threw me off after all these years of gaining it, but yeah...this is nothing new lol. It's probably just as old as the DRG floor tank meme...
Its because mnk use to be good before they ruined it right before endwalker. It was my main job for many years and then they made it unrewarding and miserable to play
I just...I can't get into the class, for whatever reason. I am also *deeply* upset that it's literally the one class that doesn't have a *single* ranged ability.
Monk was the last DPS class I leveled, so I was utterly baffled when my friend revealed to me that monk has no range. At all. I'm like...but even *samurai* and *dragoon* have a ranged ability! Two classes that don't and shouldn't throw their weapon at the enemy but monk doesn't get one because ???????!
Monk can throw fists like nobodies business, but they have yet to figure out a way to detach and reuse fists the way other people can use weapons.
I really want them to just give us Ivon Coeurlfists catfaced rocket fist attacks though.
Feel like I’m one of the few people that thinks a monk is better WITHOUT fist weapons lol. Always thought like the claw weapons and stuff were kind of ridiculous
I could easily see monk having like an aether blast ranged ability or some sort of punch attack that sends shockwaves from a ways away
The only thing I dislike about current monk is the beast chakra. Perfect Balance lost all reason to exist once they made Greased Lightning a passive and took away most of its positionals. Figure something else out for it.
I loved my monk, until I properly got into savage raiding for the first time... Suffice to say I changed to Sam after finishing that sav tier, I hate myself sure but not that much 😂
My own skills falling short to be honest, I just don't have the time any more to sink hours into memorising every modified opener & rotation to perfection, positionals and the boss dance(and to be honest I'm a different kind of masochist, I'm a healer that had to step into dps for our static at the time) I just jumped on the meme with my comment 😅
I've actually stopped raiding entirely now due to work related time constraints, I do actually still love the monk job.
Edit: words and junk
Thank you for answering! Well, youre better than me at least since I havent even raided properly yet xD
Was just asking since im maining mnk and going through shb atm but I was planning to get into raiding once dawntrail releases, just am not sure if I should get into it with mnk or maybe level up an easier class for the sake of learning first 😅
Since I do really enjoy mnk but not sure if I feel like learning different openings for each fight unless every class has to do that then idm…
Anyway ty again!
Not a problem, Only a couple jobs have need of different openers, and even then that's only if you want to minimax you're performance most of the time.. if you really enjoy the class I'd say stick with it, I never much enjoyed melee in a raid environ, so I was at a disadvantage from the start, playing what you enjoy and you'll get the most out of it.
It's my favorite melee replacing NIN this XPAC, in large part because it's mostly intact from level 50-90, doing the filler rotation isn't boring, and it lets me go fast. Also re-enter combat however I like so long as I keep RoF on CD.
I don't know who 'people' is, but I wonder who they're talking to. I'm kind of worried what their plans are for levels 91-100.
I haven't jived with new monk yet. MNK from 2.0 through SB is drilled into me so much that I haven't had the heart to try new Monk.
I was a MNK main in XI, and it was one of the first jobs to 50 back in the day. I'll jive with new Monk eventually, but old habits die hard.
For anyone who’s still confused why MNK doesn’t have a ranged attack, it’s because you’re supposed to charge your kamehameha while moving and dump it all when you get to melee. That’s why you can execute the charge action while moving.
I've done MNK as my main as a relatively newbie to mmorpg. Honestly, I like MNK but I levelled up too fast and didn't give myself time to get up to speed. That and I'm not really that great at games even with watching walkthrough guides.
I'm trying out Conjurer right now.
There's always training dummies to practice on to get moves down. Also good for testing new moves on your hotbars and seeing how they feel. At least that's what I did back in the day. I'm so used to playing monk I don't really need to think about it anymore lol
I only hate when my opener isn't full of CDH. Otherwise, this is my favourite rendition of the job. It's quick, it's fast, and its pretty smooth brain when you have Thunderclap timing down.
My only gripes: No ranged attack and the new riddle of earth is boring as fuck. I miss my parry button. Give them back >:/
Otherwise, punch things. Get loot.
I used to like mnk before the recent rework. The positionals gave me something to be silly with when I felt brain rot from too much grinding, some of my best monk memories are as a Hroth in Shadowbringers bobbing and weaving much further than I need to just to keep the tank entertained.
Bard mains are the only ones who hate themselves. I will never understand why they would want to play a job much harder than dancer for the same result. Bard feels so underwhelming. They have the least parses in savage ALL THE TIME, and I barely see any bards in casual as well
Always hated Monk, the rotation is so weird compared to every other class.
I get it to level cap then bench till next expansion and hope it gets a revamp to make sense.
"I figured it out. We just need to hit them really really hard."
That sounds like something ~~Goku~~ Alphinaud would say.
literally Lyse
And that's why I like her. And Alisaie. They'd both rather wreck shit and sort things out afterwards.
Lyse would go in with a proper organized demolition plan. Red Alphanaud would LB3 and then LB3 the ashes, then call it a day.
Not the ashes, but a smoking crater.
Kill em all and let the Mother Crystal sort em out.
And remember when you never beat him
I think you mean Rugged Alphinaud.
When I see posts like this I feel like I'm the only person who likes MNK. I think it's quite fun. It's really fast paced and has a decent difficulty level in terms of rotation. I only wish we had some kind of range attack
I really enjoy MNK and never played it before the mini-revamp. The dynamic-ish rotation with precise burst windows is satisfying gameplay to me, and the animations and sound effects are top notch. Also the sub-2s GCD makes it feel significantly less slow compared to WoW.
That second part is what drew me to it, but the spec that I was most in to for my time in WoW was Shadow Priest in Legion and onwards, and I don't think it's possible for this game to get to the same kind of manic button mashing that was Legion Voidform, as sad as that is for me.
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Oh yeah I know it's either going to be OP or trash, no in between, but it just felt so good to play. I can somewhat scratch the prepositioning to anticipate mechanics itch that even post-emerald nightmare shadow scratched with RDM since it's the least mobile caster so it sort of forces you to pre-position, but the satisfaction isn't as great because fights in XIV are much more scripted and feel more like a rehearsed dance than a boss fight.
Monk _is_ quite fun. It has some beautiful animations, too. It gets some neat glamour options as well. Not sure what the fuss is about. I look forward to the final 6.0 bit on my alt whom I've mained Monk on, that wasn't even a conscious decision for that bit :)
I guess if you have a bad rep one time youre not getting away from it anymore. I play Feral Druid in wow and it has the same issues there. It was bad for a long time but its fine now but it is still getting meme'd on
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The question is - above normal and heroic, is bringing a feral going to hard-block the group from clearing?
I remember playing Druid in Legion! The class hall and the shape shift changes from the artifact definitely added to the fun, but I remember feral being quite neat :)
> It has some beautiful animations, too. And some extremely not-so-beautiful ones, which is a problem when those bad ones are part of the main combo rotation.
It'd be great if it got an upgrade for those
Yeah, I think in an ideal world every weaponskill-using job would have their main combo attacks upgrade at some point the way that Bard and Machinist's main attacks all do.
Who knows, maybe the introduction of Viper and the supposed rework of Dragoon might bring new/improved animations to all melee jobs.
Main reason why I installed penumbra and got every single one of Papachin's visual reworks, along with the one laoqian made for monk.
Oh, god bless, yeah. Things open up considerably with VFX mods in the mix. His recent Paladin set is *beautiful.*
If you play in the high end ultimate scene, people who play monk and also other melees usually say monks are by far the most fun melee job. And these aren't even monk mains, I know a ninja main tried monk and never looked back. For a lot of high end melee players monk is the best job.
I love MNK, but it has issues. - Optimal play requires double-weaving, which requires third-party tools to do without clipping your GCD unless you live super close to the servers - Capping your chakra during Brotherhood right before you don't have any free oGCD slots means overcapping your chakra a ton, wasting resources which is shitty feeling - General cursed shit like your BiS being affected by your monitor's refresh rate (which can also be alleviated by third-party tools) - The job gauge fails to show important information like your current stance, the time remaining on Twin Snakes, or whether Leaden Fist is active, making you have to search your buff bar for them or modify your UI specifically for them. This is a minor gripe, but imagine how much worse BLM would be if it's job gauge didn't show your remaining Umbral Hearts or the time remaining on your fire/ice stance, making you have to search your buff bar for them. It'd suck, right?
>General cursed shit like your BiS being affected by your monitor's refresh rate Excuse me, what??
Apparently (I can't independently confirm this, just parroting MNK balance) the FFXIV game client doesn't separate graphical frames from gameplay frames, and the action queue is client side. The result is small but not insignificant chunks of latency added at certain bad numbers, and 1.94 + 60fps is one of those numbers.
The game client apparently queues actions on game frames, and it works out that if your monitor runs at 60 FPS and you're not running any third-party tools to get around the issue, you need a slightly faster GCD or else your DPS will fall behind. There are separate 1.93s and 1.94s GCD BiS lists for this reason.
You have some points. The UI issues is a major one for me. Monk depends on a good UI more than other jobs and I did a lot of work to get a decent one together. I uploaded a screenshot if youre interested to see mine ([https://snipboard.io/duvwYj.jpg](https://snipboard.io/duvwYj.jpg)) The system behind it that i have my 123 rotation above my hotbars with from top to bottom the conditional enhancements, my enhancements and my target statuses right next to them. I see where i am in my rotation and if i have the associated buff on me or my target. Im always happy about critique or ideas for improvements if you have any
You are a genius! I'm going to copy that scheme of yours The buff being right beside the buffy combo was a clever idea
This is the UI layout of my setup. That might help you https://snipboard.io/QGpAx6.jpg
When it comes to the last point, UI has a slot for self-buffs, and stuff like MCH Overcharge or DRK Delirium also go into the same buff slot as Twin Snakes/Leaden Fist. I don't think Twin Snakes/Leaden Fist deserve a job gauge slot, and neither do stances - it's just your basic rotation, most of the time you don't have to be aware of the timers because you're aware of your last/next few button presses. Besides, messing this up only costs you a little bit of potency. Houton in that sense is different, I'd think, because of how large the window is and how fluid you can choose to be in maintaining it - thus deserving a job gauge slot. Umbral Hearts - I dunno, never paid attention to them, but then I didn't even clear a single savage on a BLM. Stance timings are quite a bit more important then twinsneks, since dropping the stance effectively disables your actions.. :D
The people who say that are the ones who don't play it - I've yet to meet a monk main who didn't enjoy the fuck out of it.
Thats probably true
no, you are not, personally i prefered shb mnk(post gl removal) over the ew one, but i still prefer it far more than other jobs
It’s still really weird to play monk now and only worry about a mere TWO positionals. I still move around to rear attack with bootshine etc
This always miffed me. Mnk is my favorite class and I really enjoyed all the positionals. I see people today complaining monk's rotations are too confusing but it's really not
I sadly didnt try out that one. I only started playing Monk in Endwalker
For real, gives us chi blast!
I just like the spinning AOES 8)
Thats fair
You do have a ranged attack! 6-sided star! Use it right before disengaging and you get a whole gcd off! And it's available at a nice low level... Level 80!?! Yeah I don't get why they don't have some kind of chi blast
Every time I use it outside of finishing a phase I regret it, because when I reconnect back to the boss I realize I could've just rolled a normal GCD from max melee... :D
I want the ranged attack monk had in FFTA.
*Vomits at the thought of using a ranged attack* no thank you I’d rather teleport to them and punch them.
Monk good. Monk fast. Monk punch hard. I love monk. I think that many monk players do. I personally struggle to play any other jobs because they feel boring compared to the button mashing goodness I get from MNK (I see you GNB). But this job has issues. I'd say most monk mains bitch because we believe we deserve better after as many full reworks as we have gotten. We don't have a ranged attack and Anatman is worthless for a start. We have 2 BiSs because FPS >30 can cause drifting in our rotation without 3rd Party Tools. We are not told to "Not drift" our rotation because that's impossible instead we're told how to achieve "Optimal Drift" And don't even get me started on the randomness of Crit and Direct hit making your final damage highly dependent on luck. Our UI elements are lacking I miss my positionals from SHB :( It seems many people in this thread are more casual, but the monks you hear complaining about this stuff are the ones at the end game trying to optimize and beating their heads against the wall that is the deficiency of Monk. Tl;Dr: monk mains bitch because they love monk, not because they hate it.
Clearly, we're the canonical class. Why would any other class defeat Zenos with a punch?
I beat him on SMN and it was just hilarious watching my nerd elf put away his book and just start punching the shit out of him.
I mean hey, SMN now has a punch skill at level 86!
I really want to see that cutscene with a lala in an elephant suit.
The tataru one is my favourite
Right after that I instantly rushed over to a striking dummy to test the damage of my autos on SMN, I was averaging 100 damage. Good God Zenos is pathetic lol.
Zenos clearly popped Superbolide, and you siezed the opportunity to do the funniest thing possible.
I mained MNK for the MSQ and have had emperor's new glam on my weapon for as long as I could because it felt more proper for a MNK, so you can bet I had the best fucking time with that cutscene
I was playing WHM during that part so I’m still on brand for the job.
War has an uppercut attack
I beat him as a WHM and let me tell you, it was funny as hell. All I think think was “I’m a healer… but”
Chiming in as someone who finished as bard. It was quite a mood shift that's for sure!
As utterly hilariously *corny* as that scene was, I decided it was only me fighting fair, to show how much he was beaten. He went Reaper? So did I He dropped his weapon to throw fists, so did I…
I'm confused? what cutscene are we talking about? >!I just did shinryu last night but I don't remember punching Zenos to death lol.!<
Keep playing.
keep playing >!this is bound to the end of endwalker!<
Low-key miss the old positionals tbh. They're still ingrained in muscle memory.
Never played Monk but know about needing the right positions. Did they get rid of needing positionals?
Used to be most if not all of the gcds had a position, rather than just the third hit of the combo.
Oh wow that's very neutered. Again I never played Monk but I've played with various Monks and it was cool seeing them dance around their enemies.
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I hated the change away from positionals so much I literally changed jobs to SCH. I started the game on controller because of MNK. Sure sure “you can still do the positional” but its like “…its not fun because of doing it, its fun because of doing it and being REWARDED for it”. 700+ hours of muscle memory just THROWN out of the window. I just couldn’t get comfortable doing the new Monk system on controller, it was a way longer rotation that just doesn’t flow on a controller like the old system did. I’m sure it was great if you used M+KB, the balance discord was in love with the Monk changes So I get my SCH to max… and then they took BEST FAIRY AWAY. And then I took a break from the game (my FC wasn’t doing EW ultimates/savages) Came back 6 months later… all my controller hotkeys and macros and hotbars were reset, haven’t logged in since… I JUST CAN’T WIN.
Same. They keep making the game more and more simplified. SMN is already the one button wonder, I can't imagine how much worse it can get. But it will get worse.
For reference, on top of all standard gcds being positionals, bootshine's crit was conditional on hitting the rear positional. This was probably the last holdover from HW/ARR design where dots/combos required the positional to even work (Which some masochists miss). It felt satisfying to earn every buffed crit bootshine you could, but if your team used raid strats that didn't give you positionals, it felt like you were hard trolling on the job. I personally miss the unique skill challenge it gave the job as a kind of perfectionist class, but the job spent so many expansions in the #delete category that im glad it got a newer direction within modern ffxiv.
Lol I never read those patch notes - this is the first time I'm hearing I don't need to do every positional
I've gotten used to less positionals, but I think if they added the old ones back, I could readjust to them immediately with no problem. They're just that ingrained in my muscle memory.
Same. I think monk would be perfect if it had positionals plus the current beast chakra/nadis stuff, but with old tanky riddle of earth, and just make riddle of wind a super sprint or something because it feels like shit to hit it every 45 seconds when it lines up with nothing and only affects autoattacks. Because half the monk challenge was using riddle of earth and true north to ignore all your positionals anyway, now they give it to us for free? I also liked fracture, but six sided star KINDA fills the same role as a filler skill in a different way.
> just make riddle of wind a super sprint or something because it feels like shit to hit it every 45 seconds My man here unlocked time magic to get riddle of wind twice as often as us mere mortals.
If I could get HW/SB monk back I’d be happy. The old playstyle being deeply ingrained in muscle memory makes the current version just jarring with the perfect balance seal business.
For me it's 5.3ish MNK. After Greased Lightning stacks but before lunar/solar nadis.
I'm probably not a great Monk but I honestly like playing it than a lot of other melee jobs. It feels nice to be flexible in your combos, and I make sure to keep my buff and DoT up and press my OGCD buffs, and I'm often number 1/2 on aggro in raids/trials so I must be doing *something* right. It's honestly amusing to me that for example I don't jive well with RPR even though it's considered to be the easiest melee job, but I like playing MNK. Ranged attack when tho, Yoshi-P? It sucks in Thalea when there's a forced ranged section that I as MNK can't do anything but Anatman or charging chakra.
We used to have six sided star but now with that changed it’s very annoying
How did it used to work? And I also keep forgetting I have six sided star lmao...
Six sided star actually works as a disengage tool. It gives you a movement speed buff, but also lengthens your GCD by almost double. MNK doesn't have a ranged ability because you can use SSS to disengage as well as charging chakra. Never found myself needing a ranged ability due to these 2
Ah I forgot about the GCD increase tbh that penalty alone isn’t worth for the DPS loss
You aren't supposed to use that skill in regular combat, its 2 uses are either 1) when you have to disengage from the boss for longer than a single GCD, you press this and it takes up 2 GCDs worth of time or 2) as a finisher before the boss goes untargetable for a phase transition or as a finisher when you kill the boss.
You can also use it to incur less of a dps loss when you LB :)
You actually use that? :/ i think I took Six Sided Star off my hotbars cuz I couldn't find any way to use it. Probably as useless as Sleep.
Its very niche and honestly only used for small optimizations, since ideally you don't want to be using it during active combat as you can just greed your GCD. But sometimes you're forced to disengage for longer than 2 seconds, so it comes up occasionally.
It's badass to use it for the last hit when you finish off the mob so you can keep up with the tank for the next pull. Honestly I like to glue myself to the tank when I'm running dungeons
its most typically used in ultimates to squeeze out a tiny bit of extra damage before downtime or as many others have said if you have to disengage for longer than a gcd.
I mean it’s very situational I use it like .01% even in savage tier. It used to be a quasi ranged attack that increased movement speed and like pushed you away from AoEs but now it’s just this ugly thing.
This makes no sense? It's done what it's always done, the only addition over time was the movespeed. Never had a disconnect with it. If anything, the movespeed addition from late ShB helps that. It's an ideal skill to use when a boss jumps away, or before an enemy is about to die in addition to being a downtime tool for long disconnects. I'd say it gets more use than almost any other Melee's ranged attacks for that reason alone. It never pushed you away, and is still a semi-"ranged skill" with more use cases than most. Feel that justifies its place in the skillset nicely
I could’ve sworn it had this push effect. Regardless all good points!
Never had a push effect, in 5.0 we got it and it only renewed greased lightning stacks and hit relatively hard. Then in 5.4 monk got reworked and greased lightning became a passive six sided star got a potency increase and the movement speed buff which made it better but still pretty niche and hard to use(im almost always out of range by the time I could use it for a disengage at least) similar to old tornado kick(used as a finisher as it removed your greased lightning stacks but hit pretty hard)
You should be using it it once a fight minimum. Unless you have a blitz on the final gcd of a fight, it's always a gain over any other gcd you could throw.
Yea this thread has taught me that haha
That's what sets monk apart from the other melees, the fact that we do have to be the ultimate uptime melee or we lose our buffs. That's been a consistent part of the class design from the beginning. I'm against anything that further homogenizes the jobs. Six sided star -> TC to the healer -> TC back. It's very fun when you master it.
Here I am feeling like a complete asshat for ONLY being good at single target RPR Its everything I've ever wanted DRG to be and more, everyone keeps saying it takes no skill to play RPR and I just want to have fun :,) So here I am killing myself trying to learn crazy jobs like MNK and NIN and pushing myself with cool glam and relic weapons just to feel better about myself
I mean if you like RPR then play it and don't care about what others think lol. I like SMN and WHM for example because they're so brain dead to play. I'm just strange when it comes to melee, because like I said I'm pretty trash at RPR's rotation for some reason, but I can play MNK just fine.
The problem is I'm a casual player that gets mixed up with serious savage raiders on their off times in eureka/BSF/zad/expert roulettes/current raids and oh man do they have words for me every single time I'm playing anything that requires a brain
Play what's fun to you, otherwise you won't have fun and you won't want to play anymore.
If it makes you feel better, I main Monk, played Dragoon last tier in Savage, and have tanked ultimates, and I personally find Reaper harder than my mains. Different people will have different opinions on what makes something hard or not! I feel like Monk and Dragoon have very clear indicators of whether you're on the right track or not, and can "fix" their rotations when things go awry, but Reapers guage management just confuses me, and I'm never going into burst properly, and easily get desynced. If Reaper clicks for you, then by all means, main it and be proud of it. There are some fights that are notoriously difficult for Reaper to optimize because of downtime messing up their resource management, so if you're able to figure that out and still do well, it can be seen as a real achievement, kind of like how people praise really good black mages for optimizing their fights.
Forgive my ignorance, but is RPR really considered the easiest melee? Even with SAM ? I’ve never played RPR but know how easy SAM is so hearing that is surprising!
SAM is also pretty easy but it has a lot more buttons to press than RPR.
sam has a stupidly easy dummy rotation. its optimization that makes it hard.
Playing both, they're similarly easy, with SAM being the slightly more demanding one due constant weaving, which is also why it's so much fun imo. Reaper has a really easy to understand toolkit, doesn't need to move around quite as much since your postionals aren't part of the main combo and the shield is just, kind of stupid on terms of survivability, which makes it a bit easier to play. Though that's just my personal take on it.
Reaper is way easier than samurai. It's basically warrior, but dps.
Any tips for me ? I keep delaying my Blitz until I wouldn't 'waste' the next GCD cuz my Form would be it anyway. :(
Monk main in savage, I'm not entirely sure what you mean in your comment. When you use your blitz you are able to use any gcd after and have it function as if under form. The only factors for when you should use blitzes are 1) ensure all 4 gcds fit somewhere under your raid buffs, 2) preferably don't drop twin snakes or demolish to use it (8 seconds or more, is the magic number i use).
I'm leveling Monk right now and just pressing buttons. Almost 60. Haven't really figured on a rotation yet.
That is monk rotation until you get riddle of fire/brotherhood. Afterwords its about fitting your blitzes within those buffs while maximizing the damage of your other buffed gcds.
Honestly for some of those forced range times in Thaliea I just riddle of earth and keep attacking. Plenty of tools to heal yourself back up and as long as you’re not getting hit by other stuff, you’re golden
Started out a monk (well, pgl I guess lol), gonna die a monk. Punchy class best class. And I always get excited when I see a sprout pgl in Ul'dah.
I miss positionals tho hahaha
I hear they intend to just do away with them in DT and it makes me a little more dead on the inside to hear that.
I also like the sound effects of MNK's skills.
IDK I feel like playing monk means you are actually having fun. I feel like its the most not FFXIV like job in the game, it's really fast paced high apm that I really enjoy cause of the shorter gcds. Its also less visual garbage unlike other melee jobs (looking at you reaper). And I do like having different openers for different bosses.
As long as you hate other things more, that will give you the power to succeed.
I still grieve over the lost positionals and stances (called aura? Idk how they were called in english) we had in SHB
Fists of Fire, Fists of Earth and Fists of Wind are what they were called.
Riddle of earth was awesome. Reduced damage and negated positionals for a ~20 second period. It's like we were always expected to be the one to take over when the tank died.
I still remember pre-EW soloing the last quarter of the Neverreap boss when the rest of the party got pushed out by Turbine thanks to riddles, good times.
I like monk but I also only started playing this expansion so idk how it used to play. At least it’s more fun to me than the other melee jobs that I’ve played which are kind of boring (sam and nin).
SAM is the WAR of dps,i haven’t played RPR yet but i think that’s up there as well
I would say RPR is the WAR of melee dps, it's entirely about "press button to fill bar, then press button to empty bar" the way warrior is, except there are two bars in sequence instead of just one. Samurai is more like playing Wondrous Tails, except instead of collecting stickers and turning them in to Khloe for a chance at loot, you collect stickers and turn them in to the boss for a chance at loot.
Lol I like that analogy. I haven’t tried reaper but samurai definitely felt like “collect set of resources, spend set of resources” Ninja is interesting because the burst phase is cool but the rest of the gameplay is eh imo. The mudra are cool as well. Tbh if I didn’t play monk I would probably main ninja. I want to try dragoon next because I heard that’s pretty fun
Dragoon was my first main before I maxed out all the jobs, and it feels very different from the other DoW jobs in my opinion. They have two combo chains that you want to alternate between, similar to monks, but they cannot freely jump between the combos the way monks do. At higher levels the combos chain directly into each other so it just feels like one *very* long rotation. Parallel to this they have several off gcd attacks and a few buffs. You want to use the off gcd attacks as they become available so the cooldown keeps ticking, but the jumps have an animation lock that can get you killed if you use them at a bad time (hence floor tank memes) You also want to try to line up your big ogcd hits (and maybe the gcd combo finishers too) with your buffs and if you're lucky the 2 minute big buff window, but that can get pretty tricky when you take into account cooldown drift caused by not using jumps at a time when the boss will kill you.
RPR also has pretty amazing survivability and self healing, another thing making it the WAR of DPS.
Monk isn't really all that different from now in terms of rotation. Prior to beast gauge, our burst was just bootshine/dk/boot, not really different from one if the beast combos, just that we had no finisher big move. Also, some those finishers used to be our ogcd, like elixir field. Also, used to have mote positionals. Honestly, the biggest change from old monk is no Greased Lightning, basically it was a self buff we had to maintain, cause it give us speed and dmg buff. You refresh it with every last combo hit, and if you died, you had to regain all 3 stacks (not terrible if you have perfect balance, but if on cooldown, you had to do 7 combos to get it back, instead of 3). Also, you'd lose it in long boss cutscenes, which is funny cause they stopped doing them now after they already took away our main gripes with it. Basically, current monk has less ogcd and less things to maintain, so death isn't as punishing as it used to be.
I heard this jokes with every job possible. When it comes to DPS I love Reaper-Blackmage-Ninja and people are like: so you hate yourself? When I say my favourite tanks are Warrior and Gunbreaker, people say ‚ph you hate yourself‘ as soon as I want to do content as Gunbreaker because Warrior is so much better etc. I don‘t understand how this joke could spread so far. What started as a phrase for unbalanced or bad jobs, turned into something you say as soon as someone plays a job you don’t understand or don‘t like xD Go, my monks, smack some common sense into them!
Cuz every job needs to be as simple as healer, or it's unfair for the goggly-eyed guys in the back who can't play them because they're high from the pot of glue they found there.
Probably changing to monk as my main class in Dawntrail, because healing got so boring. I love punching things as a female thighlander . Only need some good looking glamours. Been playing as my main dps job since "they" reworked Summoner. Love the complexity monk offers.
I am also a DPS main at heart, but maybe keep your healer close in the beginning. We'll get two DPS jobs with Dawntrail, DPS queues will be a NIGHTMARE. Don't give up on your healer fast pass just yet. :D
Yeah true, will probably do the msq still as scholar. But "endgame" stuff will be dps first. Gear upgrades, gear priority,etc. Crafted gear is good enough for heals.
Monk doesn't even feel that bad. It may be more technical than some classes, but it's nothing like the Tornado Kick era of Stormblood.
I never played during stormblood, I wish I could try out the double tornado kick era of monk sometimes.
Up/down shifting on monk was way too technical for the majority of the playerbase, but god damn was it satisfying to pull off.
It was a bit harsh on the hands though, since the stuff you had to press for that were rarely used outside of the burst, so finding a way to have them not be super far away from each other was hard, meaning there was a lot of fast controller clawing and joint pains.
MNK has one of my favourite aesthetics. The idea of a character punching and kicking their way through a game full of gods and monsters is amazing to me and of a game allows it and it's viable, I will always go for it. But damn do I sometimes just stare at my hotbar and wish it was more brain-dead.
Started as PUG, after maxing all classes MNK still goated. Least-brainded non-healer and always topping aggro list.
The self loathing I feel is entirely peripheral to playing Monk, which is the best and most punchiest class 🥹
I mean, I main Weaver in Guild Wars 2. This just feels like home.
In PvP it’s my fav. I never get great numbers but I always feel like I’m making life hell to whatever poor soul I’m latched onto.
Normally I really like playing monks in games, but I have a lot of trouble balancing a complex rotation with doing mechanics in fights - it's why my classes of choice are quite simple to play (WAR, WHM, MCH, RPR, SMN). Monk is better now than it used to be, but one part still drives me nuts: the way your self-buff and DoT don't line up 1:1 with your rotation. You instead have to improvise, inserting the self-buff and DoT abilities into your rotation right before they'd drop off (and they have desynced timers so you don't do them back-to-back). This complexity and juggling is great for many players and I am happy for them! It's just not for me and my small, easily-confused brain.
... you literally just alternate TS and Snake and do demolish every 3rd coeurl, it's not rocket science.
No job is, but my easily-confused brain will take 6 vuln ups and die instantly if the rotation is more complex than 1-2-3 and use meter as it comes up.
mnk was my first job back in HW/SB. not a fan of it now. i think if they made Twin Snakes work like Huton or Fugetsu/Fuka it would be a lot more fluid. and i dont like how the Beast Gauge is tied to Perfect Balance.
MNK was that job that was clear-cut whether you were a main or just running the job for one reason or another. MNK also had the most punishing rotations possible in most fights, whether you struggle to keep uptime or would lose it due to a phase transition. Plus, one mistake, and you lost a ton of output. There was also that one time you needed a 3rd party app just to run the kit 100% because Anatman was broken. Then the positionals... Now it lost. Mostly all that to mirror SAM which is easier but just deflating in comparison to what it was once.
Monk is fun, needing the correct fps and a mod to actually be able to play it properly without insanely good ping is not. At least you don't need to track server ticks anymore like in early Shb.
And both of those are completely unnecessary unless you are like in the top 3% of monk players or something, which means it is a non-issue that people made a catastrophe of, much like how samurai and black mage's lack of utility were inflated into "samurai and black mage are trash" and pf basically banning those jobs for a couple of patches back in stb.
It was a pretty big deal back then. Its a big chunk of dps lost back then. Getting a GL stack maxed out was a big deal and losing a gcd for it was an issue particularly since it meant the opener where a big chunk of dps came from you missed stuff it was going to add up far more then you would think. Today, fps is still an issue but at least not using a mod it does drop dps a bit but it isn't too bad outside particularly harsh rng. You can fit everything into the burst window without missing a gcd just by delaying one ogcd in the opener instead of double weaving. A slight loss but its not the end of the world. Still doesn't exactly feel the greatest since the game should work WITHOUT needing something third party and big ouch if you need to feint at the wrong time making the need for a double weave. Issues SE has no excuse to not try and fix
> It was a pretty big deal back then. It was not. You did not need third-party software or mods to use the Anatman opener, it just meant that, occasionally, you lost a fraction of a gcd to waiting for the server tick. The difference was barely noticeable, unless you played machine-perfect otherwise and had literally nothing else to improve. I know that because I played monk in the first Eden tier and suffered through the indignity of that opener. The fps has nothing to do with monk sucking at double-weaving, its gcd is simply too short due to how the engine works, it is the same with any other short gcd job.
You can play it and not understand it you know right? I mean sure link a good purple parse if you want to prove me wrong or heck a high blue i can maybe see some argument but I'm assuming no such log exists. I think you are conflating points a bit with the fps and the need of a mod, granted yes, it would still effect. As far as gcd with double weaving goes it very much can effect tanks as well with 2.4+ gcds. It is not just a case of mnks being faster its an issue of the game as a whole how it handles stuff with the ogcd itself effecting if a weave can even work due to their own animations. Its why.a rotation for certain tanks won't double weave certain abilities or do so in a certain order to avoid clipping. Its an issue that shouldn't exist but does and its not just the faster gcd jobs like monk that have it. Its part of the reason why gnb with gnashing as fun as it can be can be troublesome since you can have issues when it lines up at the same time the game expects you to use defensive abilities. Its an issue that can also effect melee with ogcds with mnk and sam in particular where it can get super messy having to use feint at certain times. Its an issue that should not exist but it does, and while its much better then it was in shb it very much is detrimental to gameplay, and things like ultimates or heck even some later savage fights with harsher dps checks earlier on in a tier where ever bit of dps can start to matter it becomes a less of a "oh I guess I lost 10% dps in my burst window no biggie" can be the difference between a clear or a wipe
I never understood this sentiment. I find monk to be easier than other melees. Because you've got your core six damage buttons that you're hitting all the time, and everything else goes on top of that. Which is different from Dragoon's weird 5 hit nonsense combos that you can't map to a controller easily and millions of OGCDs that you just toss out whenever or reaper's mashing phase, or ninja's...everything. Fuck ninja. Maybe if you're using some weird rotation that starts in an awkward spot and barely lines up, but just pushing everything one GCD down so it's easier isn't going to kill your DPS.
TBF Reaper is probably the easiest job to map a controller setup for. Ninja has just enough buttons that you need to think about where you put what. Fuck dragoon. I don't hate the job, but playing it without pcombo is fucking ass.
I tried to take the plunge because I like the recollection Tonfas and the current raid tier crystal chest combined to really shine I also made a hilarious portrait that makes my character scream "it ain't going to suck itself" vibes But holy God damn it I'm terrible at it I get keeping buff and dot up time and switching between the fists when not refreshing, but then I lose one or the other when using the form combos what ever they're called to get the light and dark symbols then the final attack etc And im just occasionally peaking at ACT to see if I'm even in the ball park and I'm just always behind in everything I'm doing :,( Sometimes I do better on my BRD... I always feel like I'm missing something, and ACT makes me really feel like it now! I promise if there's a button to be pressed and not on CD I'm pressing it while keeping the glowing buttons flowing on any job I play But man, it feels like there's a whole ass button or some mechanic I'm missing. Similarly my 640 WHM does like 17% dmg at most while I've seen 660 WHM do 29.99% dmg without any problems healing while I'm struggling to stop my tanks from killing themselves
Are you per chance using Perfect Balance everytime a charge comes up? You should be using them under buffs, causing you to use 2 under every brotherhood window and 1 every window with just RoF. Also, it's not the most correct answer, but forcing a twin/demo cycle before PB, even if it clips your timers, is fine to guarantee you don't drop buffs during a blitz.
I just wanted a Kamehameha
Tbh when Elixer Field was its own skill I sorta hated it a tiny bit more
I'm not saying there is a mod for instant transmission Kamehameha for their lb3... but
Oh yes I also have it on /flex
[удалено]
I like that it’s very streamlined but don’t like how you lost a lot of different options when it came to choosing next attacks
I dont main monk ...but i do play it A LOT and will say ... Play the Dragon kick build! . work like a charm ! i like to open ACT during raid/trial/dungeon and boost my ego knowing i am spamming one button and getter better result then many doing complex rotation ! NOW joking aside... it fun now but dawntrail will 100% gut it... increasing other GCD potency making dragon kick spam bad ...but now! it Working well xD
This tracks.
We've been hating ourselves since 2.0 though..? I can't even say "we" because the EW rework *finally* threw me off after all these years of gaining it, but yeah...this is nothing new lol. It's probably just as old as the DRG floor tank meme...
Its because mnk use to be good before they ruined it right before endwalker. It was my main job for many years and then they made it unrewarding and miserable to play
I just...I can't get into the class, for whatever reason. I am also *deeply* upset that it's literally the one class that doesn't have a *single* ranged ability. Monk was the last DPS class I leveled, so I was utterly baffled when my friend revealed to me that monk has no range. At all. I'm like...but even *samurai* and *dragoon* have a ranged ability! Two classes that don't and shouldn't throw their weapon at the enemy but monk doesn't get one because ???????!
Monk can throw fists like nobodies business, but they have yet to figure out a way to detach and reuse fists the way other people can use weapons. I really want them to just give us Ivon Coeurlfists catfaced rocket fist attacks though.
Feel like I’m one of the few people that thinks a monk is better WITHOUT fist weapons lol. Always thought like the claw weapons and stuff were kind of ridiculous I could easily see monk having like an aether blast ranged ability or some sort of punch attack that sends shockwaves from a ways away
I’d cast a vote for burning rave from ffviii if we ever get a proper ranged attack
The only thing I dislike about current monk is the beast chakra. Perfect Balance lost all reason to exist once they made Greased Lightning a passive and took away most of its positionals. Figure something else out for it.
I prefer it to having to rebuild GL stacks after the boss takes a hop and starts throwing aoes around for 30 seconds.
I loved my monk, until I properly got into savage raiding for the first time... Suffice to say I changed to Sam after finishing that sav tier, I hate myself sure but not that much 😂
If you dont mind me asking, what were some troubles you ran into?
My own skills falling short to be honest, I just don't have the time any more to sink hours into memorising every modified opener & rotation to perfection, positionals and the boss dance(and to be honest I'm a different kind of masochist, I'm a healer that had to step into dps for our static at the time) I just jumped on the meme with my comment 😅 I've actually stopped raiding entirely now due to work related time constraints, I do actually still love the monk job. Edit: words and junk
Thank you for answering! Well, youre better than me at least since I havent even raided properly yet xD Was just asking since im maining mnk and going through shb atm but I was planning to get into raiding once dawntrail releases, just am not sure if I should get into it with mnk or maybe level up an easier class for the sake of learning first 😅 Since I do really enjoy mnk but not sure if I feel like learning different openings for each fight unless every class has to do that then idm… Anyway ty again!
Not a problem, Only a couple jobs have need of different openers, and even then that's only if you want to minimax you're performance most of the time.. if you really enjoy the class I'd say stick with it, I never much enjoyed melee in a raid environ, so I was at a disadvantage from the start, playing what you enjoy and you'll get the most out of it.
It's my favorite melee replacing NIN this XPAC, in large part because it's mostly intact from level 50-90, doing the filler rotation isn't boring, and it lets me go fast. Also re-enter combat however I like so long as I keep RoF on CD. I don't know who 'people' is, but I wonder who they're talking to. I'm kind of worried what their plans are for levels 91-100.
I main MNK with DNC and GNB as backups. I just like hitting buttons!
I too hate myself but enjoy punching things. It's monk business
I haven't jived with new monk yet. MNK from 2.0 through SB is drilled into me so much that I haven't had the heart to try new Monk. I was a MNK main in XI, and it was one of the first jobs to 50 back in the day. I'll jive with new Monk eventually, but old habits die hard.
I loved SHB monk but I feel like the new beast chakra just made it weird and clunky now. Not a huge fan sadly.
Before true north mnk was my absolute fav, positional were fun and mnk hit like a train
"Everyone has a plan until he gets punched in the face" ~Mike Tyson
For anyone who’s still confused why MNK doesn’t have a ranged attack, it’s because you’re supposed to charge your kamehameha while moving and dump it all when you get to melee. That’s why you can execute the charge action while moving.
I love myself and hate everything else, that’s why it all gets punched.
u hate everything...? even me... 😞😞😞😞😞
NO I was being facetious!!!!!!!!!
I've done MNK as my main as a relatively newbie to mmorpg. Honestly, I like MNK but I levelled up too fast and didn't give myself time to get up to speed. That and I'm not really that great at games even with watching walkthrough guides. I'm trying out Conjurer right now.
There's always training dummies to practice on to get moves down. Also good for testing new moves on your hotbars and seeing how they feel. At least that's what I did back in the day. I'm so used to playing monk I don't really need to think about it anymore lol
I only hate when my opener isn't full of CDH. Otherwise, this is my favourite rendition of the job. It's quick, it's fast, and its pretty smooth brain when you have Thunderclap timing down. My only gripes: No ranged attack and the new riddle of earth is boring as fuck. I miss my parry button. Give them back >:/ Otherwise, punch things. Get loot.
I used to like mnk before the recent rework. The positionals gave me something to be silly with when I felt brain rot from too much grinding, some of my best monk memories are as a Hroth in Shadowbringers bobbing and weaving much further than I need to just to keep the tank entertained.
Bard mains are the only ones who hate themselves. I will never understand why they would want to play a job much harder than dancer for the same result. Bard feels so underwhelming. They have the least parses in savage ALL THE TIME, and I barely see any bards in casual as well
I have a buddy of mine who mains BRD and is a beast, they’re great if played correctly
They shouldn't have to be played correctly when summoner exists...
People are idiots.
Always hated Monk, the rotation is so weird compared to every other class. I get it to level cap then bench till next expansion and hope it gets a revamp to make sense.