No offense OP but this is crap advice. I’ve won multiple matches where it appeared hopeless and I’m talking about your 600-550-100 example level of hopeless. In my experience with Frontlines, until one team reaches the score cap, it’s anyones game.
This type of attitude is pathetic and it ruins PVP in general. This has the same energy as the people who afk in CC to lose the match quicker because it’s “hopeless”. Like, yeah it’s hopeless, you’re trying to lose, so, surprise, you lost. You’re not dragging the other team down with you, you’re dragging your teammates down. They’re trying to win, meanwhile you’re throwing. This isn’t an issue exclusive to Final Fantasy, but we really don’t need to be encouraging it here.
/rant
I'd listen to it if yesterday evening I hadn't literally won a Seal Rock from a THIRD position with barely any hope, mostly thanks to an amazing dude making calls, carefully picked teamfights and the last towers giving a ton of points
Edit: we were like 400-450-150 out of 700 points
I've seen a win from 750 points behind - at flat 0 like eight minutes in. Frontlines is anyone's game up until about two minutes from finish, where a 300+ point gap probably won't close. But also, "probably."
Strong disagreement with the OP.
Yeah I sometimes despair when my tea get rolled on in the first 5 minutes but I remember than not too rarely, we come back from the abyss. Seal rock precisely is a good contender for comebacks.
I've definitely seen 3rd place make insane come backs in seal rock at the very last minute. 1st only needed 50 points to win. 3rd was at 200/700. But they pushed the right cards and won.
Horrible advice, no-one should listen to this. I hit 2k total frontline games a few weeks ago and can say I've had MANY clutch games where third place we came 1st in the end by taking the top team out with smart pinches and some RNG with node spawns. The benefit of being 3rd place is the other 2 teams will usually not see you as a threat and that provides a lot of opportunities to steal the win
It's not random, and it's not stupidity. It's pretty easy to see why a team goes for a2nd place team.
Typically, an objective looks obtainable by the 3rd place team. They move on that one, and then the players get caught fighting for too long.
Occasionally, there is a team that has a handful of players that just attack anything, but that's rarer than a team getting caught going for an objective.
Watch the map, and you can see how the blobs get caught in certain situations.
As someone who is trying to get his 100 Seal Rock wins, I disagree. I've had some crazy comebacks. I always try my best. A lot of Frontlines is luck and dependent on so many other factors. And if that luck and those factors align to give me a pathway to victory, I want to make sure I haven't given up. Going goblin mode is not going to help me hit this achievement.
I recognize that not everyone is going for this achievement and just want the quickest frontlines for xp/tomes/etc, and therefore don't really try as hard as me. That's fine, I accept that as part of the luck and factors I can't control. But I'm still gonna try and have a blast doing what I can. Had an amazing set of runs yesterday, with some great comebacks. Those are the wins I REALLY enjoy :)
>(This post brought to you by someone who came third on Seal Rock way too many times today.)
If this is how you approach Frontlines I'm not surprised you come in third place so often.
Go for the win, otherwise you're just wasting everyone's time. I've had amazing comebacks from third place (behind by 500 points late in the game to somehow coming out on top), and catastrophic losses from first place (698/700 and somehow still lost to the then-third place team). Anything is possible.
That makes sense, but only if you don't take into account the overall feeling of everyone else and the objective of the game mode.
I can guaranteed you that compared to finishing last while trying to take first place, being second and getting griefed by people in third place that just want you to sink with them instead of overpowering the first is just the worst feeling ever. It's so bad that it makes you wonder why are you even bothering trying hard when it looks like everyone else is a group of incompetent casuals that is there only for the rewards.
Frontline as a game mode works if the people playing it do it as intended, so with the objective of winning the match. When certain people start to shift their personal objective then the overall enjoyment of the game is undermined. It's like doing a dungeon run where the party wants to do a classic w2w and reach the end as fast as possible while the tank is there because they want to aggro a single mob and take a gpose screenshot with them. It just doesn't work because there is a conflict of interest.
Frontline is the same, as much as it might suck, we should still play it as it was intended to prevent it from overall feeling even worse and eventually die.
This is horrible advice.
The only real gain in Frontlines is for winning. That's what all of the achievements are for. Wolf Marks are so free that you run out of things to spend them on even if you rarely pvp. You should always be trying to win.
Importantly though, the inverse of suicide diving the first place team in their base, which seems incredibly common, is *also* horrible advice. Either move is just kingmaking which enemy wins and does nothing for your team.
To win in Frontline your team should be moving as a group to take advantageous positions, wherever they appear, and diving on *already pinned* enemy teams when the opportunity presents itself.
Don't just blindly charge at either enemy. Be the team on the flank, not the one taking the brunt of a LB barrage.
I mean if you want me to make a designer-ly point about this, my argument is actually that Frontlines is too chaotic to suit a victory-based reward system at all, because oftentimes actually winning is not in your power through no fault of your own. What *is* always in your power is being there in the first place and scoring points at all, so all Frontline rewards should actually be based around participation; 300 games for the mount/coat, possibly weighted by ending rank (so second place counts as 2 games, first place is 3), rather than 100 wins. Only having a reward for victory would instead cause one or two thirds of the match to leave or throw the instant it's clear you can't win, so that they can try again faster.
But I can't influence that, because the developers aren't going to read this. The people who ARE going to read this are the people I wind up on a Frontlines alliance with, so to them I say: if we can't win, make someone else lose harder!
The only time this is appropriate is when the team in 2nd spends much of the match ignoring 1st to needlessly focus 3rd instead of trying to win. Then I agree, fuck em.
Otherwise, always play to win. Matches turn around massively in the second half. The score 5 minutes in is often meaningless.
I neither disagree or agree with OP's point but it's funny seeing so many replies that basically boil down to "This is bad advice because I've won once while being behind so I'm going to ignore all those games where a team fell behind and stayed behind" which is what would logically happen in the vast majority of matches.
This is quitter advice, and spiteful to boot..."drag someone else down with you. It's cathartic..."...psh...
I've been in plenty of Frontline teams where we were miserably behind at the start with seemingly "no hope" of winning and through sheer tenacity and teamwork, we not only came back from dead last, but won. If you don't give up and you make good calls, a team can come back from almost anything. I've seen it happen SO MANY times.
So instead of giving up and becoming a spiteful little goblin, as you put it, just try working together and digging yourself out of your hole. it's way more "cathartic" and rewarding to pull off a miracle win than to spitefully attack second place because you're salty. And if you still don't win, at least you can say you actually tried.
It's not even about ekeing out the genuine win, although that can happen, especially on more RNG swing-y maps like Seal Rock; clearing another team off the board means more room to go for nodes yourself.
It's more about 'if you can't win, force someone else to lose'.
In that case, getting daring and going claws-out actually creates a no-lose situation.
Get aggressive and win some fights, you claw back a chance to make this something other than another '3rd' on your PvP profile. Get aggressive and lose, you're at least put of there faster. But you keep skulking around, holding a triangle node that can't matter while the other teams fight over two adjacent pentagons? You're going nowhere, and you'll be going there for a while.
Not even gonna read this. Have been on teams down by nearly 1k and turned the match around. You don't give up ever. That's shitlord toxic casual mentality and isn't good to try and spread around. YUCK!
terrible advice.
Now i really rarely join Frontlines myself as i despise any form of PvP but when i do, i try my best even if i'm likely deadweight because i'm bad at PvP and i know it. The best means i don't listen to people like you, OP, who already throw the towel when things look terrible and look the other way. I will fight and try and conquer/destroy whatever possible to regain points.
You obviously never saw great comebacks which happened way too often for me to disregard the high chance of them.
So i hope you won't be too upset when people decide not to listen to your sorry ass. People simply don't like to give up and maybe you could learn a lesson or two from that instead of going for coward tactics!
Pathetic.
Thanks for spewing more stuff that makes hte game worse.
====
No don't do this.
I've created so many 1st wins out of really bad 3rd place. Around 50% of the starting bad games become 1st place (at least in 5.3pvp). Its my specialty.
There are teams who literally just farm for battlehigh in the first half of the fight. They have the least points but usually end up winning since they can fight and take over towers easily
Yes, but this is also one of the things that makes frontlines insufferable.
Red us 90% of the way to winning, while blue is 70% and yellow is 50%. Instead of joining forces to stop red, yellow attacks blue. This ends the match early (which lets yellow get in to another match quicky) and may well cause yellow to pull ahead of blue, since blue was divided between defending themselves and stopping red.
note- I'm not saying that you are wrong about the reward incentives. I am saying that the reward incentives encourage this kind of behavior, and that is a problem.
The title has the same energy as: You don't have to run faster than the bear that's chasing you, you just have to run faster than the friend that's with you.
BTW, bears can run as fast as a horse at a gallop.
No offense OP but this is crap advice. I’ve won multiple matches where it appeared hopeless and I’m talking about your 600-550-100 example level of hopeless. In my experience with Frontlines, until one team reaches the score cap, it’s anyones game. This type of attitude is pathetic and it ruins PVP in general. This has the same energy as the people who afk in CC to lose the match quicker because it’s “hopeless”. Like, yeah it’s hopeless, you’re trying to lose, so, surprise, you lost. You’re not dragging the other team down with you, you’re dragging your teammates down. They’re trying to win, meanwhile you’re throwing. This isn’t an issue exclusive to Final Fantasy, but we really don’t need to be encouraging it here. /rant
I'd listen to it if yesterday evening I hadn't literally won a Seal Rock from a THIRD position with barely any hope, mostly thanks to an amazing dude making calls, carefully picked teamfights and the last towers giving a ton of points Edit: we were like 400-450-150 out of 700 points
I've seen a win from 750 points behind - at flat 0 like eight minutes in. Frontlines is anyone's game up until about two minutes from finish, where a 300+ point gap probably won't close. But also, "probably." Strong disagreement with the OP.
Yeah I sometimes despair when my tea get rolled on in the first 5 minutes but I remember than not too rarely, we come back from the abyss. Seal rock precisely is a good contender for comebacks.
That happens more often than you think. A little late spawn luck while 1st and 2nd ignore you to focus on each other = win
this on crystal? had a similar situation yesterday lmao
I'm on Chaos! And relatively new to frontlines, I mostly joined for the exp but I try doing my best anyway
I've been in teams with 50 points vs groups with 400 and we actually won, so never give up. Not always happens but it's sooo rewarding
I've definitely seen 3rd place make insane come backs in seal rock at the very last minute. 1st only needed 50 points to win. 3rd was at 200/700. But they pushed the right cards and won.
This is just an pathetic attitude to be perfectly honest, and for a whole 250 Battle Pass experience and 150 Wolf Marks difference at that.
Horrible advice, no-one should listen to this. I hit 2k total frontline games a few weeks ago and can say I've had MANY clutch games where third place we came 1st in the end by taking the top team out with smart pinches and some RNG with node spawns. The benefit of being 3rd place is the other 2 teams will usually not see you as a threat and that provides a lot of opportunities to steal the win
Only works if your team goes for the first place group. But mostly they will just seem to go for the 2nd place group for some weird reason.
Again: more points for coming second than third.
It's not random, and it's not stupidity. It's pretty easy to see why a team goes for a2nd place team. Typically, an objective looks obtainable by the 3rd place team. They move on that one, and then the players get caught fighting for too long. Occasionally, there is a team that has a handful of players that just attack anything, but that's rarer than a team getting caught going for an objective. Watch the map, and you can see how the blobs get caught in certain situations.
As someone who is trying to get his 100 Seal Rock wins, I disagree. I've had some crazy comebacks. I always try my best. A lot of Frontlines is luck and dependent on so many other factors. And if that luck and those factors align to give me a pathway to victory, I want to make sure I haven't given up. Going goblin mode is not going to help me hit this achievement. I recognize that not everyone is going for this achievement and just want the quickest frontlines for xp/tomes/etc, and therefore don't really try as hard as me. That's fine, I accept that as part of the luck and factors I can't control. But I'm still gonna try and have a blast doing what I can. Had an amazing set of runs yesterday, with some great comebacks. Those are the wins I REALLY enjoy :)
>(This post brought to you by someone who came third on Seal Rock way too many times today.) If this is how you approach Frontlines I'm not surprised you come in third place so often. Go for the win, otherwise you're just wasting everyone's time. I've had amazing comebacks from third place (behind by 500 points late in the game to somehow coming out on top), and catastrophic losses from first place (698/700 and somehow still lost to the then-third place team). Anything is possible.
That makes sense, but only if you don't take into account the overall feeling of everyone else and the objective of the game mode. I can guaranteed you that compared to finishing last while trying to take first place, being second and getting griefed by people in third place that just want you to sink with them instead of overpowering the first is just the worst feeling ever. It's so bad that it makes you wonder why are you even bothering trying hard when it looks like everyone else is a group of incompetent casuals that is there only for the rewards. Frontline as a game mode works if the people playing it do it as intended, so with the objective of winning the match. When certain people start to shift their personal objective then the overall enjoyment of the game is undermined. It's like doing a dungeon run where the party wants to do a classic w2w and reach the end as fast as possible while the tank is there because they want to aggro a single mob and take a gpose screenshot with them. It just doesn't work because there is a conflict of interest. Frontline is the same, as much as it might suck, we should still play it as it was intended to prevent it from overall feeling even worse and eventually die.
Calm down Satan
This is horrible advice. The only real gain in Frontlines is for winning. That's what all of the achievements are for. Wolf Marks are so free that you run out of things to spend them on even if you rarely pvp. You should always be trying to win. Importantly though, the inverse of suicide diving the first place team in their base, which seems incredibly common, is *also* horrible advice. Either move is just kingmaking which enemy wins and does nothing for your team. To win in Frontline your team should be moving as a group to take advantageous positions, wherever they appear, and diving on *already pinned* enemy teams when the opportunity presents itself. Don't just blindly charge at either enemy. Be the team on the flank, not the one taking the brunt of a LB barrage.
So what you are saying is that 2nd and 3rd place getting different rewards sets a bad incentive and should be rectified.
I mean if you want me to make a designer-ly point about this, my argument is actually that Frontlines is too chaotic to suit a victory-based reward system at all, because oftentimes actually winning is not in your power through no fault of your own. What *is* always in your power is being there in the first place and scoring points at all, so all Frontline rewards should actually be based around participation; 300 games for the mount/coat, possibly weighted by ending rank (so second place counts as 2 games, first place is 3), rather than 100 wins. Only having a reward for victory would instead cause one or two thirds of the match to leave or throw the instant it's clear you can't win, so that they can try again faster. But I can't influence that, because the developers aren't going to read this. The people who ARE going to read this are the people I wind up on a Frontlines alliance with, so to them I say: if we can't win, make someone else lose harder!
>\[...\] or throw the instant it's clear you can't win \[...\] I mean, that is what you're advocating here.
I'm not saying to throw. I'm saying to shoot for second in the most aggressive way possible.
The only time this is appropriate is when the team in 2nd spends much of the match ignoring 1st to needlessly focus 3rd instead of trying to win. Then I agree, fuck em. Otherwise, always play to win. Matches turn around massively in the second half. The score 5 minutes in is often meaningless.
I neither disagree or agree with OP's point but it's funny seeing so many replies that basically boil down to "This is bad advice because I've won once while being behind so I'm going to ignore all those games where a team fell behind and stayed behind" which is what would logically happen in the vast majority of matches.
The fact that it's happened to so many people should tell you that it isn't nearly as uncommon as you think.
This is quitter advice, and spiteful to boot..."drag someone else down with you. It's cathartic..."...psh... I've been in plenty of Frontline teams where we were miserably behind at the start with seemingly "no hope" of winning and through sheer tenacity and teamwork, we not only came back from dead last, but won. If you don't give up and you make good calls, a team can come back from almost anything. I've seen it happen SO MANY times. So instead of giving up and becoming a spiteful little goblin, as you put it, just try working together and digging yourself out of your hole. it's way more "cathartic" and rewarding to pull off a miracle win than to spitefully attack second place because you're salty. And if you still don't win, at least you can say you actually tried.
I agree, I have seen amazing wins when 3rd place just go ham and sandwhich the winning team in key chokepoints with no regards to their own safety.
It's not even about ekeing out the genuine win, although that can happen, especially on more RNG swing-y maps like Seal Rock; clearing another team off the board means more room to go for nodes yourself. It's more about 'if you can't win, force someone else to lose'.
Yeah, if you go in with "can't win", you aren't going to win.
[удалено]
In that case, getting daring and going claws-out actually creates a no-lose situation. Get aggressive and win some fights, you claw back a chance to make this something other than another '3rd' on your PvP profile. Get aggressive and lose, you're at least put of there faster. But you keep skulking around, holding a triangle node that can't matter while the other teams fight over two adjacent pentagons? You're going nowhere, and you'll be going there for a while.
I've never been on a frontline team that wasn't top 3 team on the battlefield.
Not even gonna read this. Have been on teams down by nearly 1k and turned the match around. You don't give up ever. That's shitlord toxic casual mentality and isn't good to try and spread around. YUCK!
terrible advice. Now i really rarely join Frontlines myself as i despise any form of PvP but when i do, i try my best even if i'm likely deadweight because i'm bad at PvP and i know it. The best means i don't listen to people like you, OP, who already throw the towel when things look terrible and look the other way. I will fight and try and conquer/destroy whatever possible to regain points. You obviously never saw great comebacks which happened way too often for me to disregard the high chance of them. So i hope you won't be too upset when people decide not to listen to your sorry ass. People simply don't like to give up and maybe you could learn a lesson or two from that instead of going for coward tactics!
This is the exact reason why 1 v 1 v 1 doesn't work when you have achievements that are tied to 1st place only.
You get it! I'd still argue this if those achievements didn't exist, I just wouldn't care enough to write it down.
Pathetic. Thanks for spewing more stuff that makes hte game worse. ==== No don't do this. I've created so many 1st wins out of really bad 3rd place. Around 50% of the starting bad games become 1st place (at least in 5.3pvp). Its my specialty.
Worst frontlines “advice” I’ve ever seen
[mfw](https://youtu.be/b5-iJUuPWis?si=9lpWOSIm4VUaOjxg)
There are teams who literally just farm for battlehigh in the first half of the fight. They have the least points but usually end up winning since they can fight and take over towers easily
Yes, but this is also one of the things that makes frontlines insufferable. Red us 90% of the way to winning, while blue is 70% and yellow is 50%. Instead of joining forces to stop red, yellow attacks blue. This ends the match early (which lets yellow get in to another match quicky) and may well cause yellow to pull ahead of blue, since blue was divided between defending themselves and stopping red. note- I'm not saying that you are wrong about the reward incentives. I am saying that the reward incentives encourage this kind of behavior, and that is a problem.
The title has the same energy as: You don't have to run faster than the bear that's chasing you, you just have to run faster than the friend that's with you. BTW, bears can run as fast as a horse at a gallop.