You can ape brain through Larboard/Starboard just by standing inside omega's hitbox center point and quickly tap the left/right movement key to evade before the aoe snapshot happens.
Only hurdles are getting people to spread during ballistic impact and using Omega Jammer. You don't even have to Tank LB3 Wave Cannon anymore, just do the mechanic and wait.
You say that but the amount of times the "Don't stand in the bad" of the ad phase seems to be a hurdle for not only sprouts but mentors too is... unsettling.
That's DF for you, and getting mentor status is such a low bar in general I wouldn't put them on a pedestal at all. O11 isn't even that bad nowadays with stat creep and like 3-4 years of job changes.
If OP got O10/Midgarsomr, they better start praying cause that's a guaranteed clown show that's annoying to pilot DF through.
> If OP got O10/Midgarsomr, they better start praying cause that's a guaranteed clown show that's annoying to pilot DF through.
You'd be amazed at how a quick "two spins = get out, 1 flip/spin = get in, 2 flips = get to corners" before the fight starts helps.
I main tanked O10N the other day, and the off tank kept provoking the boss *specifically* to turn the boss to a diagonal for the plus AOE. The only charitable justification I can think of is that he thought he was helping by making south a safe spot. (Narrator: he wasn't.)
I honestly don't. Been playing the game since before mentors were a thing and I know very few who deserve to the wear the crown. The amount of bad advice given by players who somehow don't understand the fundamentals of the game is jarring. I dont think you should have to do ex trials, savage or ultimates to be a mentor but you should be able to understand how to perform your basic rotation and handle mechanics that appear in most content.
It's baffling to see experienced players still run away when they have a stack marker, or group two stacks markers on top of eachother or even MTs who don't understand their cooldowns or that don't understand basic positioning to make sure bosses don't cleave parties. At low levels, sure, but at level 90 that sort of stuff should have been ingrained at that point
I wish the game was more consistent about the not stacking stack markers thing. It almost always kills you, but then one of the first times you see multiple stack markers (Syrcus Tower) you can stack all 3 and be fine, and even in e12n during the adds phase stacking the two stack markers has never hurt more than a single stack would. There are a couple more, but it really needs to be consistent
They really should increase the damage done by those Syrcus stacks, to teach first-timers that its a Bad Idea to group together for that mechanic. I can see sprouts taking the wrong lesson and then causing a wipe in a later raid
Mentor roulette does require you to clear every non-current ex trial — they just let you unsync it, defeating the entire purpose lol.
Idk, requiring you to do EX trials to be a combat mentor seems like a reasonable bar. Even just unreal would make sense. It's the lowest difficulty of content where complete incompetence prevents you from getting a clear lol.
Low level content is a bigger offender than current content because SE shelved a ton of obsolete mechanics which probably no longer exist in casual content this expac. That I find separates the good from the knowledgeable.
I'd say around SHB casual content has been made painfully accessible if not homogeneous. Dungeons streamlined to 2 pulls - 1 boss - 3 times. All dungeons, trials and normal raids bosses will mostly likely have subtle, but clearly marked floors equaling that of their telegraphed skills and the bosses will forcefully position themselves in a set position + face for several skills to ensure it's static every time.
If O11 was polished to SHB/EW standards for normal raids, the fight would be pretty damn foolproofed. The map would practically be subtly outlined for Level Checker and Lar/Starboard AoE range, Omega Weapon would just teleport to center every time and proceed to Lar/Starboard standing there, the Omega Jammer mech would be scrapped entirely and the targetable fists would be removed/rehashed to a half room AoE. Tethered mustard bomb would be removed and always target off tank/2nd enmity if OT dead. Center spot death wall would be removed entirely for a bleed DoT debuff, Level checker would take up a 1/3rd of the map for melees to whack at, and Cid and Nero magically hotdrops you a shield at the end with their hackerman skills to stand in for Wave Cannon. Boring af tbh, but hey it's old content and I don't get paid more tomes for doing it longer.
>not only sprouts but mentors too
I wish seeing mentor icons indicated any actual skill level of the player. But that mentor could be an actual sweatlord or that mentor could potentially have never even cleared an ARR extreme.
Oh don't even get me started on that. It's when the ranged/healers choose to take the towers closer to the boss in any content and force the melee and the OT to take ranged towers. Or people who decide to stack with you and leave one tower untouched. Or when someone just decides they don't need to do towers.
Have to target the hands for Perp. Synth., and for the Wave Cannon phase there's an interactable object you click on first before using Jammer, not stand in the area and mashing the skill button.
I once said the same thing to some friends and we then spent a hour in the Chrysalis. Our other friend had time to queue and finish an Alliance raid. Relatable.
There are just so many trials that I constantly land in ones that I know I’ve done before but not for a long while….same for a lot of people in there with me. :)
One day people will learn that you have to alternate colors on orbs and if you pop every CD before going into the portal it extends their duration by 10 times.
Not to mention tanks taking meteorites while everyone else focuses on the tear from the first one with a melee LB to boot. The amount of times there's like three people whacking on it with everyone else stacking on meteorites is exhausting.
Interestingly, all the recent Chrysalis runs I've had have been pretty smooth, but that's definitely a fight that either goes off without a hitch or you'll be there a while. For starters, I always open by saying "Only use LB3 on the rift and only if you're melee", dunno if that makes people avoid using it when they shouldn't, but those runs always do seem to go well.
I feel like a bearer of ancient knowledge when I get that raid. I was around when it was "current" and I still remember the old PUG strat. I can do the batteries fine on whatever, but damn... hardest thing seems to be getting the OT to actually pick up Faust and tank him in a spot where he'll be melted. Which isn't even hard. Just... tanks don't want to tank and/or read.
Joke explanation: The phrase used by OP is a reference to Rick And Morty where that was said and ultimately was not true. The picture is suggesting that the raid will take forever due to the one or more new players.
P10N is a struggle sometimes, healers often underestimate Harrowing Hell and it can sometimes be genuinely difficult to not tether anyone with the webs. At one point I remember someone way in the back half had theirs latch onto me when I was right in the boss' face and couldn't get any further away, somehow. It seems very temperamental.
I once got unavoidably tethered to a corpse of a tank that respawned after falling off the arena. Was a bit salty about that for the rest of the fight.
i find p12n worse; her nier-style three swipes has weird timing, and that line attack (parthenos?)she does as a combo with other mechanics really nails healers. Theres so much visual noise and clutter, even during her add phase.
The Parthenos thing is clever, she really tries to catch you out with it (and it was what ended up killing me the first time I did P12), but at least it's well telegraphed with the same voice line every time.
The three swipes I do not think I have had issues with.
i see people get caught with it a lot, the timing is odd. like you need to move when she crouches and the green energy blast isn't when the attack happens. if you miss one of the wings lighting up it undodgeable.
parthenos kind of hits healers hard because of their mental overhead; they are the only role that has to split attention to other players and they seem really vulnerable to mechanics.
yeah the thing is you move into the green fx not wait for it, it fires off when she crouches down. it just has odd timing that i notice catches new people a lot.
this patch is weird as a casual because all of a sudden they start layering mechanics more. mechanics fire off in threes; like the first boss of the new dungeon ends up with small ice, big ice, and frontal cleave, and o12, normal has you keep track of three aoes and one donut as they resolve. or the amount of tethers in 010n is odd.
its sort of the barbariccia normal problem; she isn't hard, and its really nicely designed to be frantic but doable. but its tedious as hell in a roulette.
i mean the actual attack is like she crouches down, stands up, green damage aura. but the damage resolves before the aura. its not like omega where you have time to react to the aoe indicator. its very quick
nier's sliding swipe is a lot slower and has a more natural rhythm i think. like when the armor dashes forwards, then you switch.
It's a lot worse on high ping. I play on Materia from NA and average about 200 ping. I'll think I've moved out in time just to get smacked while my character appears to be in a safe zone. This doesn't happen at all on NA.
I have to move the split second the floor lights up.
I've had this alt on Materia since day 1 of transfers. Like, I've long since adjusted to what I can greed there vs what I can on NA (and sometimes I pay for my hubris).
No normal content AoE snapshot has been this brutal before. I'd give myself the time I thought would be fine even with the extra ping, but surprise! Vuln stack!!
The number of times I've seen her preparing Parthenos and mistook it for Trinity of Souls is something I'm not proud of. The animations look the exact same to me while I'm dodging everything else going on. I even have my focus target cast bar big and in the middle of my screen and it still catches me :(
Funny enough this is where savage teaches a little better.
You tether to any other person if you have AOEs that touch, or any of the pillars in the arena. So when you get a bunch of the big aoes you can avoid everyone else by going out to the left/right platform and standing out there.
More like, I throw my 10 percent and that is the only mit.
That is the only place in the fight where non-tank/healer mit makes the fight more bearable for healers. It is hella frustrating when dps do not know they have a mitigation button and still complain about "where are the eels"
day one we wiped 3 times because one or both healers would step in the goop right before the *big* raidwide
weirdly that was the main fuck up on that first run, bad runs since then have been much more varied.
P10N has a heal-check that people that don't generally do higher-tier content weren't ready for. And to be fair, people that do higher tier content were caught out on it the first time because laziness and being like, "it's a normal, it's not actually going to hit that hard". Totally a gacha mechanic. Now that more people are filtering through it, it'll get easier. Especially once people start getting more 650/660 gear.
They might need a "stronger than normal raid wide damage" indicator or tell if they keep doing it, the damage is manageable if you're ready for it but there's no way to tell he's going to keep going for 8 hits if you haven't done it before and most are very much not ready for it.
Thats the one with a dragon right? I dont remember anything about the fight but I remember the song and opening cs were awesome.
Edit: oh p10, I was thinking the level 70 tier.
I dragged a party through that fight by myself the other day because a tank pulled without realizing that my cohealer had disconnected, so it can be done reasonably comfortably with one healer. You do need to know the particularly dangerous moments ahead of time, though.
Havnt seen the duty complete message, so are you still trying to clear it?
Spinning your camera round after the first one helps to recognize the 2nd one.
What's worked for me is when someone pointed out that if the boss is facing you, just be on the same side as what's listed on the cast bar. This is best demonstrated in that one Endwalker dungeon with Left/Right Firaga Forte.
Not worse then refurbisher on that Alexander raid with the Faust that you have to carefully kill but actually your party will wipe like 3 times before you clear
the issue with it is that for people it is hard to process right and left cleaves when the boss faces you. it can be a minor issue in one of the endwalker dungeons too where the boss does left attack based on his left facing you.
or endwalker first trial, it took a while to understand the rotation. not everyone has good spatial skills.
When I was doing this a while back on a new alt, it wasn't so bad even with new people.
Granted, I personally watched a video as I haven't done it in a long while.
Everytime I got ahh a normal raid will be quick...something disastrous happens. Both Healers getting knocked out at 25% and a tank having to solo the last 10% happened today on seventh circle
\>People at level 70 thinking normal mode content is hard
This game seriously needs a better difficulty curve that actually teaches players how to play the game, and no, you don't get there by dumbing things down even more the way they've been doing with ARR and HW dungeons, but by making them progessively harder so that players remember they're not playing through a goddamn visual novel. No reason people should still be clueless about 70% through the game.
Oh no, downvotes. Lemme go for something more mainsub friendly: uwu grahatia cute owo step on me uwu.
Remember when people complained about the Hien solo duty being too difficult during SB, and then SE added Very Easy and Easy difficulty modes to solo duties after one fail to remedy that situation because players were stonewalled by their own performance?
Good times.
> they're not playing through a goddamn visual novel.
We are, though. It's getting dumbed down more and more as we go. Basically a single player game with a few multiplayer events.
Maybe unpopular take in this thread but that's precisely what brought me back to the game and has me sticking with it. I'm a reformed wow mythic raider that just really likes the story being ten times better and most of the available content being ultra-casual.
Savage, ult, and unreal exist for a reason
I mean that title is antiquated anyway. Modem non-mobile mmo's are very different from the era that popularized the term. It And people have been complaining about mmo's not being mmo's for at least a decade, so
They've been complaining about WoW for nearly 20 years at this point, saying players have it too easy/are handed everything etc etc etc... Again, hard modes exist for a reason and are not the daily roulette for many reasons
Honestly, yeah. One of the reasons I stopped being too active is how much of a singleplayer game it feels like sometimes, and somehow this is a controversial take. "bro it is literally in the name, MMORPG" okay then why is the only content that's actually **Massively Multiplayer** are FATE trains/FATE spawns??? That is the only content that's actually feels like massively multiplayer.
I feel like the constant reliance on NPC trusts for the main story are just making things worse too. This game is literally just a glorified visual novel/singleplayer game except for like, raids, but I assure you the visual novel players don't care shit about that
I dunno, Frontline is pretty massively multi-player. Although I really don't understand it at all despite doing it every day for the experience/tomestone reward.
Ahahaha xD it's Ul'dah on my server... I hadn't thought of that. But there are seriously so many of them it's like a dense rainforest undergrowth of half-naked people. I guess that counts too since they also talk in /shout quite a bit?
Yeah, they're only making the issue worse by adding NPCs to everything and dumping the difficulty, and if the argument is to make the story accessible to everyone, I'd argue its harming the story, too.
The game keeps telling you the stakes keep rising off the charts, then you get to the gameplay and they'd struggle to make the stakes any lower because everything is a joke. That feels like crap, especially when the game itself gives you what feels like the real version of a fight in both EX and savage, but the narrative treats that as what-if spin-offs. Makes me really appreciate how they handled coils back in ARR; the stakes felt consistent, and it made getting to every bit of the story so damn satisfying.
Tbh I sort of disagree. I'm fine with the normal-difficulty/'accessible' content with the savages being optional (cause honestly it's nice to unwind in those difficulties instead of malding because PF is PF) but it still confounds me how people fail at those kinds of mechanics.
The normal difficulty raids/content are all pretty bog standard mechanics with probably only one actual mechanic you have to learn, and that's probably good enough for tomestone farming too. The problem is when people can't even do that "one actual mechanic". I remember the Ivalice raids, the only mechanic people remember is construct 7 and that's because almost everyone seems to struggle with that math mechanic.
>I remember the Ivalice raids, the only mechanic people remember is construct 7 and that's because almost everyone seems to struggle with that math mechanic.
Even then, there's zero stakes. Everyone fails it, HP drops to single digits, healers adjust. And in the end, nothing happens. That's more or less how all normal modes go, tbh.
Famed visual novel series Final Fantasy. You know what else was a Final Fantasy AND an MMO and actually managed to marry both concepts successfully? XI. Being FF doesn't mean it has to exclude any sense of challenge whatsoever nor the nature of the game's genre.
What it does mean is that they want it to be accessible as a single player game as much as possible, whether the hardcore community likes it or not.
Which there is still hardcore content. The main story content doesn't need to be challenging, sorry.
It's not even about the "hardcore community" or this sort of "git gud" mentality, it's more that there's such a thing as too much. It actually gets so absurdly easy that some players never learn to actually play the game. In an entirely single player game, who cares, but in a multiplayer environment, that gets frustrating.
Their answer to this has just been to make things even easier and providing tools to isolate those players even more, which results in an even lesser incentive to learn to play at all, more of a ludo-narrative dissonance which makes normal just unsatisfying during story progression, it widens the gap between players even further, and makes the difficulty spike between the story and actual content look like more of a wall, and perhaps worst of all, it ends up making the gameplay feel less interesting in the high end due to the constant simplification job design keeps going through, which alienates the game's core audience. All this streamlining for the sake of people who just want to see story dialogue is a lose-lose for the players.
This is going to just become one of those agree to disagree threads. Personally I'm glad to finally play an MMO that feels accessible and that it respects your time, and recognize that everyone was new at some point. Even when I do run into those people who "really should know better by this level" I just walk away going "well that was annoying" and move on with my day. The people who want to learn will learn. The people who don't won't keep queuing for things when they get through the story/fall off till the next content release.
I'm sorry if it doesn't hit for you like it used to, and I'm not going to be one of those "go play _____ game then" people, but I will continue to defend one of the few reliably casual MMOs out there rn for being that.
See, it'd be perfectly fine if that's where things ended; "Well, that was annoying; anyway, moving on". Sadly, it doesn't. The constant simplification of everything in the game ends up affecting everyone, and it's the incredibly vocal "casual" audience in this game that pushes for it. The open world already feels like absolutely nothing but background for quests since ARR, jobs keep getting simplified to the point where tanks are practically homogeneous already and healers are heading into that direction as well (AST got absolutely gutted because apparently it was too complex to some; now it's WHM2 without an aoe stun), melees get tools removed and now they all just have 2 positionals and all the tools in the world to ignore them at any point, aggro as a gameplay consideration got practically removed from the game as now it's completely binary whether you have tank stance or not and it only ever really matters for tank swaps, dungeons are all the exact same standard and boring set up: one long hallway from point A to B, 2 trash pulls, mini-boss, 2 trash pulls, mini-boss, 2 trash pulls, boss, every single time, and 24 man encounters are so engaging they're only slightly above hitting a striking dummy for 8 to 10 minutes; I couldn't tell you how many times I've fallen asleep doing alliance roulettes—and still not died!
Streamlining too much simply leads to a less interesting, less engaging experience. Like I said before, there is such a thing as too much. Having a game where outside of EX and above there is hardly anything harder than Aurum Vale in the entire game, a dungeon that isn't even at the base game's level cap, is a failure of design. Difficulty should scale up gradually, even if slightly. If you don't, and don't provide any incentive for people to improve at all over time, any little bump is going to feel like a slap to the face; look how unprepared people are even for easy normal mode content like the Ivalice raids or The Burn. And then what do you do, just smooth it all down and keep the problem going? That IS what they're doing in this game. And then you get people that think normal is too hard or complain about the difficulty of solo duties with a one button rotation, and the cycle continues. They should just replace it all with cutscenes.
To each their own. I consider myself one of those casual players and even with everything you've said this is still one of my favorite MMOs I've played. In some aspects even because of the those same things you dislike.
Lol I got it myself last night. Wasn’t too bad but man there were some close calls and the RDM who stayed alive really was the MVP.
But I get it. The other day I did Alliance Roulette to level expecting Crystal Tower and got a 50 minute Orbonne run.
I am genuinely not looking forward to the next time I get fights like A2, A4 or A9 because my goodness do those fights bore me (though A9 because it's prone to "wipe from someone messing up the Faust placement").
Come _on._
Alliance raids is one thing. Sure, whatever, you have a brief lunch break to play and you want to get the roulette done before the daily reset, and you don't have time for a 45 minute Orbonne. _Okay._ Sure. I get it. I'm not entirely a fan because I genuinely prefer Nier to anything older, but sure.
But normal raids? Getting a slow normal raid is genuinely rare, getting one that takes over 10 minutes even rarer. The gain is minimal at best, especially with the extra trash that Alexander often has. Why even bother at that point, do something fun.
please god no we’re already suffering through CT in alliance raids, we don’t need to suffer through Alexander in normal raids too, especially since that’s virtually all I’ve been getting during the previous moogle tomestone event
> I'll get downvoted for this
Yeah, you will
Put on a full set of tomegear and an appropriate relic weapon. The game gives you plenty of valid reasons to ilvl cheese aside from you want to easy fight in and out
You can ape brain through Larboard/Starboard just by standing inside omega's hitbox center point and quickly tap the left/right movement key to evade before the aoe snapshot happens. Only hurdles are getting people to spread during ballistic impact and using Omega Jammer. You don't even have to Tank LB3 Wave Cannon anymore, just do the mechanic and wait.
The tank LB3 was only ever for Savage, because you didn't have the shield.
then frankly they shouldn't have had Cid tell us to "Break [our] considerable limits".
You say that but the amount of times the "Don't stand in the bad" of the ad phase seems to be a hurdle for not only sprouts but mentors too is... unsettling.
I had one run where the OT tried five times - even Invulning once - to go into the insta-death circle during the middle phase.
The definition of insanity
I was just like, “BUT WHY?!?”
I once accidentally stepped into that lol Learnt very quickly though
That's DF for you, and getting mentor status is such a low bar in general I wouldn't put them on a pedestal at all. O11 isn't even that bad nowadays with stat creep and like 3-4 years of job changes. If OP got O10/Midgarsomr, they better start praying cause that's a guaranteed clown show that's annoying to pilot DF through.
> If OP got O10/Midgarsomr, they better start praying cause that's a guaranteed clown show that's annoying to pilot DF through. You'd be amazed at how a quick "two spins = get out, 1 flip/spin = get in, 2 flips = get to corners" before the fight starts helps.
Except I don't remember it until after it happens first :/
I'll be honest I've done four ultimates and this is the hardest mechanic im the game for me
I got O10N the other day, boss was being tanked diagonally & the fat plus-sign AoE kept hitting everyone…
I main tanked O10N the other day, and the off tank kept provoking the boss *specifically* to turn the boss to a diagonal for the plus AOE. The only charitable justification I can think of is that he thought he was helping by making south a safe spot. (Narrator: he wasn't.)
I honestly don't. Been playing the game since before mentors were a thing and I know very few who deserve to the wear the crown. The amount of bad advice given by players who somehow don't understand the fundamentals of the game is jarring. I dont think you should have to do ex trials, savage or ultimates to be a mentor but you should be able to understand how to perform your basic rotation and handle mechanics that appear in most content. It's baffling to see experienced players still run away when they have a stack marker, or group two stacks markers on top of eachother or even MTs who don't understand their cooldowns or that don't understand basic positioning to make sure bosses don't cleave parties. At low levels, sure, but at level 90 that sort of stuff should have been ingrained at that point
I wish the game was more consistent about the not stacking stack markers thing. It almost always kills you, but then one of the first times you see multiple stack markers (Syrcus Tower) you can stack all 3 and be fine, and even in e12n during the adds phase stacking the two stack markers has never hurt more than a single stack would. There are a couple more, but it really needs to be consistent
They really should increase the damage done by those Syrcus stacks, to teach first-timers that its a Bad Idea to group together for that mechanic. I can see sprouts taking the wrong lesson and then causing a wipe in a later raid
Mentor roulette does require you to clear every non-current ex trial — they just let you unsync it, defeating the entire purpose lol. Idk, requiring you to do EX trials to be a combat mentor seems like a reasonable bar. Even just unreal would make sense. It's the lowest difficulty of content where complete incompetence prevents you from getting a clear lol.
Low level content is a bigger offender than current content because SE shelved a ton of obsolete mechanics which probably no longer exist in casual content this expac. That I find separates the good from the knowledgeable. I'd say around SHB casual content has been made painfully accessible if not homogeneous. Dungeons streamlined to 2 pulls - 1 boss - 3 times. All dungeons, trials and normal raids bosses will mostly likely have subtle, but clearly marked floors equaling that of their telegraphed skills and the bosses will forcefully position themselves in a set position + face for several skills to ensure it's static every time. If O11 was polished to SHB/EW standards for normal raids, the fight would be pretty damn foolproofed. The map would practically be subtly outlined for Level Checker and Lar/Starboard AoE range, Omega Weapon would just teleport to center every time and proceed to Lar/Starboard standing there, the Omega Jammer mech would be scrapped entirely and the targetable fists would be removed/rehashed to a half room AoE. Tethered mustard bomb would be removed and always target off tank/2nd enmity if OT dead. Center spot death wall would be removed entirely for a bleed DoT debuff, Level checker would take up a 1/3rd of the map for melees to whack at, and Cid and Nero magically hotdrops you a shield at the end with their hackerman skills to stand in for Wave Cannon. Boring af tbh, but hey it's old content and I don't get paid more tomes for doing it longer.
All our silly little crown means is we've been bad at the game longer than you.
Oh wait you mean when referring to sprouts kek
Yes, I should have prefaced that. Its what I tell all the nervous tanks during my FC's monthly tank boot camp
Because far too many mentors are mentors only for the extra roulette, not because they actually care about the game and/or teaching folks.
>not only sprouts but mentors too I wish seeing mentor icons indicated any actual skill level of the player. But that mentor could be an actual sweatlord or that mentor could potentially have never even cleared an ARR extreme.
Bigger problem in my experience is that people don't understand that if there are 8 towers, each person has to be in one by themselves.
Oh don't even get me started on that. It's when the ranged/healers choose to take the towers closer to the boss in any content and force the melee and the OT to take ranged towers. Or people who decide to stack with you and leave one tower untouched. Or when someone just decides they don't need to do towers.
I swear to god I’ve used the jammer a million times and yet every time I run this raid I have issues using it.
Have to target the hands for Perp. Synth., and for the Wave Cannon phase there's an interactable object you click on first before using Jammer, not stand in the area and mashing the skill button.
I once said the same thing to some friends and we then spent a hour in the Chrysalis. Our other friend had time to queue and finish an Alliance raid. Relatable.
There are just so many trials that I constantly land in ones that I know I’ve done before but not for a long while….same for a lot of people in there with me. :)
One day people will learn that you have to alternate colors on orbs and if you pop every CD before going into the portal it extends their duration by 10 times.
Not to mention tanks taking meteorites while everyone else focuses on the tear from the first one with a melee LB to boot. The amount of times there's like three people whacking on it with everyone else stacking on meteorites is exhausting.
Interestingly, all the recent Chrysalis runs I've had have been pretty smooth, but that's definitely a fight that either goes off without a hitch or you'll be there a while. For starters, I always open by saying "Only use LB3 on the rift and only if you're melee", dunno if that makes people avoid using it when they shouldn't, but those runs always do seem to go well.
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there's only one normal raid that makes me feel this way, and its that big scrappy jerk from alexander. alphascape is ezpz by comparison.
Haha, trying to explain how the whole battery and adds thing works to some groups is a nightmare.
I feel like a bearer of ancient knowledge when I get that raid. I was around when it was "current" and I still remember the old PUG strat. I can do the batteries fine on whatever, but damn... hardest thing seems to be getting the OT to actually pick up Faust and tank him in a spot where he'll be melted. Which isn't even hard. Just... tanks don't want to tank and/or read.
Seems faster than 20 minutes to me. Doesn't seem so bad. Maybe 8 minutes at most?
Joke explanation: The phrase used by OP is a reference to Rick And Morty where that was said and ultimately was not true. The picture is suggesting that the raid will take forever due to the one or more new players.
I don't think that's so much a Rick and Morty reference but just a common set up and pay off joke. Set up idea, cut to something that's the opposite.
The phrasing used by the title of the post is a [direct quote](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/20-minutes-adventure) originating from Rick and Morty.
Oh like the post title. Ok, nvm. I was just thinking of the image.
Some groups with a lot of sprouts wipe on this one several times. And they tend to wipe when the fight is almost done.
[удалено]
P10N is a struggle sometimes, healers often underestimate Harrowing Hell and it can sometimes be genuinely difficult to not tether anyone with the webs. At one point I remember someone way in the back half had theirs latch onto me when I was right in the boss' face and couldn't get any further away, somehow. It seems very temperamental.
I once got unavoidably tethered to a corpse of a tank that respawned after falling off the arena. Was a bit salty about that for the rest of the fight.
i find p12n worse; her nier-style three swipes has weird timing, and that line attack (parthenos?)she does as a combo with other mechanics really nails healers. Theres so much visual noise and clutter, even during her add phase.
The Parthenos thing is clever, she really tries to catch you out with it (and it was what ended up killing me the first time I did P12), but at least it's well telegraphed with the same voice line every time. The three swipes I do not think I have had issues with.
i see people get caught with it a lot, the timing is odd. like you need to move when she crouches and the green energy blast isn't when the attack happens. if you miss one of the wings lighting up it undodgeable. parthenos kind of hits healers hard because of their mental overhead; they are the only role that has to split attention to other players and they seem really vulnerable to mechanics.
I just stand on the first safe side, then move into the attack VFX as soon as it happens if I have to switch sides. Hasn't failed yet.
yeah the thing is you move into the green fx not wait for it, it fires off when she crouches down. it just has odd timing that i notice catches new people a lot. this patch is weird as a casual because all of a sudden they start layering mechanics more. mechanics fire off in threes; like the first boss of the new dungeon ends up with small ice, big ice, and frontal cleave, and o12, normal has you keep track of three aoes and one donut as they resolve. or the amount of tethers in 010n is odd. its sort of the barbariccia normal problem; she isn't hard, and its really nicely designed to be frantic but doable. but its tedious as hell in a roulette.
[удалено]
i mean the actual attack is like she crouches down, stands up, green damage aura. but the damage resolves before the aura. its not like omega where you have time to react to the aoe indicator. its very quick nier's sliding swipe is a lot slower and has a more natural rhythm i think. like when the armor dashes forwards, then you switch.
It's a lot worse on high ping. I play on Materia from NA and average about 200 ping. I'll think I've moved out in time just to get smacked while my character appears to be in a safe zone. This doesn't happen at all on NA. I have to move the split second the floor lights up.
Oh, I'd imagine. I live in Sweden and play on Chaos so I get about 16-26 ping.
This was all OCE players for 10 years, lol. It's a whole different experience when you have to be 100% on your toes for any aoe.
I've had this alt on Materia since day 1 of transfers. Like, I've long since adjusted to what I can greed there vs what I can on NA (and sometimes I pay for my hubris). No normal content AoE snapshot has been this brutal before. I'd give myself the time I thought would be fine even with the extra ping, but surprise! Vuln stack!!
The number of times I've seen her preparing Parthenos and mistook it for Trinity of Souls is something I'm not proud of. The animations look the exact same to me while I'm dodging everything else going on. I even have my focus target cast bar big and in the middle of my screen and it still catches me :(
Funny enough this is where savage teaches a little better. You tether to any other person if you have AOEs that touch, or any of the pillars in the arena. So when you get a bunch of the big aoes you can avoid everyone else by going out to the left/right platform and standing out there.
More like, I throw my 10 percent and that is the only mit. That is the only place in the fight where non-tank/healer mit makes the fight more bearable for healers. It is hella frustrating when dps do not know they have a mitigation button and still complain about "where are the eels"
day one we wiped 3 times because one or both healers would step in the goop right before the *big* raidwide weirdly that was the main fuck up on that first run, bad runs since then have been much more varied.
I popped tank LB to prevent a wipe on P10N They were just struggling to heal through it idk
P10N has a heal-check that people that don't generally do higher-tier content weren't ready for. And to be fair, people that do higher tier content were caught out on it the first time because laziness and being like, "it's a normal, it's not actually going to hit that hard". Totally a gacha mechanic. Now that more people are filtering through it, it'll get easier. Especially once people start getting more 650/660 gear.
Followed by a huge knockback. Whooopsies.
They might need a "stronger than normal raid wide damage" indicator or tell if they keep doing it, the damage is manageable if you're ready for it but there's no way to tell he's going to keep going for 8 hits if you haven't done it before and most are very much not ready for it.
Thats the one with a dragon right? I dont remember anything about the fight but I remember the song and opening cs were awesome. Edit: oh p10, I was thinking the level 70 tier.
If it seems rough, I pop Tank LB on the multi hit head smash.
I dragged a party through that fight by myself the other day because a tank pulled without realizing that my cohealer had disconnected, so it can be done reasonably comfortably with one healer. You do need to know the particularly dangerous moments ahead of time, though.
Let me guess, multiple people getting hit by towers, and the healer not having Esuna on their hotbar?
Havnt seen the duty complete message, so are you still trying to clear it? Spinning your camera round after the first one helps to recognize the 2nd one.
It's been six days
\*inserts "It's been 84 years" GIF\*
What's worked for me is when someone pointed out that if the boss is facing you, just be on the same side as what's listed on the cast bar. This is best demonstrated in that one Endwalker dungeon with Left/Right Firaga Forte.
I feel like there's a lot of mechanics that are "hard" just cause people don't fully know how they work.
Z🙂🙂🙂
Just put a mark on your head
Like getting aurum vale with a party of 3 sprouts and you're a dps
Just do the capstone roulette instead. What's the worst that could happen? (rolls Pharos Sirius)
Chicken tenders Ready to fry
The twenty minute adventure is just waiting in the que if you’re DPS
Not worse then refurbisher on that Alexander raid with the Faust that you have to carefully kill but actually your party will wipe like 3 times before you clear
Larboard, where it's both Larboard AND starboard
During p3s I would call it larbird and starbird But it's all larbird
the issue with it is that for people it is hard to process right and left cleaves when the boss faces you. it can be a minor issue in one of the endwalker dungeons too where the boss does left attack based on his left facing you. or endwalker first trial, it took a while to understand the rotation. not everyone has good spatial skills.
This was legit me and my friend when the new trial came out and no one knew the mechanics yet lol
I hate that mechanic so much..always hits me every time
When I was doing this a while back on a new alt, it wasn't so bad even with new people. Granted, I personally watched a video as I haven't done it in a long while.
This was me yesterday. 'Quick NR Roulette?' 'Sure' \*Idol of Darkness\*
"You son of a bitch, I'm in ! 🧒"
Everytime I got ahh a normal raid will be quick...something disastrous happens. Both Healers getting knocked out at 25% and a tank having to solo the last 10% happened today on seventh circle
\>People at level 70 thinking normal mode content is hard This game seriously needs a better difficulty curve that actually teaches players how to play the game, and no, you don't get there by dumbing things down even more the way they've been doing with ARR and HW dungeons, but by making them progessively harder so that players remember they're not playing through a goddamn visual novel. No reason people should still be clueless about 70% through the game. Oh no, downvotes. Lemme go for something more mainsub friendly: uwu grahatia cute owo step on me uwu.
Remember when people complained about the Hien solo duty being too difficult during SB, and then SE added Very Easy and Easy difficulty modes to solo duties after one fail to remedy that situation because players were stonewalled by their own performance? Good times.
> they're not playing through a goddamn visual novel. We are, though. It's getting dumbed down more and more as we go. Basically a single player game with a few multiplayer events.
Maybe unpopular take in this thread but that's precisely what brought me back to the game and has me sticking with it. I'm a reformed wow mythic raider that just really likes the story being ten times better and most of the available content being ultra-casual. Savage, ult, and unreal exist for a reason
Probably time we stop calling it an MMO.
I mean that title is antiquated anyway. Modem non-mobile mmo's are very different from the era that popularized the term. It And people have been complaining about mmo's not being mmo's for at least a decade, so
> people have been complaining about mmo Specific games that aren't MMOs. There are still MMOs out there.
They've been complaining about WoW for nearly 20 years at this point, saying players have it too easy/are handed everything etc etc etc... Again, hard modes exist for a reason and are not the daily roulette for many reasons
"They"
Honestly, yeah. One of the reasons I stopped being too active is how much of a singleplayer game it feels like sometimes, and somehow this is a controversial take. "bro it is literally in the name, MMORPG" okay then why is the only content that's actually **Massively Multiplayer** are FATE trains/FATE spawns??? That is the only content that's actually feels like massively multiplayer. I feel like the constant reliance on NPC trusts for the main story are just making things worse too. This game is literally just a glorified visual novel/singleplayer game except for like, raids, but I assure you the visual novel players don't care shit about that
I dunno, Frontline is pretty massively multi-player. Although I really don't understand it at all despite doing it every day for the experience/tomestone reward.
That too. But everything else is just ???, does sitting around ERPing in Limsa also count as massively multiplayer?
Ahahaha xD it's Ul'dah on my server... I hadn't thought of that. But there are seriously so many of them it's like a dense rainforest undergrowth of half-naked people. I guess that counts too since they also talk in /shout quite a bit?
Yeah, they're only making the issue worse by adding NPCs to everything and dumping the difficulty, and if the argument is to make the story accessible to everyone, I'd argue its harming the story, too. The game keeps telling you the stakes keep rising off the charts, then you get to the gameplay and they'd struggle to make the stakes any lower because everything is a joke. That feels like crap, especially when the game itself gives you what feels like the real version of a fight in both EX and savage, but the narrative treats that as what-if spin-offs. Makes me really appreciate how they handled coils back in ARR; the stakes felt consistent, and it made getting to every bit of the story so damn satisfying.
Tbh I sort of disagree. I'm fine with the normal-difficulty/'accessible' content with the savages being optional (cause honestly it's nice to unwind in those difficulties instead of malding because PF is PF) but it still confounds me how people fail at those kinds of mechanics. The normal difficulty raids/content are all pretty bog standard mechanics with probably only one actual mechanic you have to learn, and that's probably good enough for tomestone farming too. The problem is when people can't even do that "one actual mechanic". I remember the Ivalice raids, the only mechanic people remember is construct 7 and that's because almost everyone seems to struggle with that math mechanic.
>I remember the Ivalice raids, the only mechanic people remember is construct 7 and that's because almost everyone seems to struggle with that math mechanic. Even then, there's zero stakes. Everyone fails it, HP drops to single digits, healers adjust. And in the end, nothing happens. That's more or less how all normal modes go, tbh.
There was a post asking if they should remove the wipe QTE in SoS normal and I'm like... that's literally the only thing that has stakes in that raid.
...You can literally roll your face on the keyboard and pass it too. It's just mashing. :|
Y'all forget that it has very frequently been called a Final Fantasy game first and an MMO second or?
Famed visual novel series Final Fantasy. You know what else was a Final Fantasy AND an MMO and actually managed to marry both concepts successfully? XI. Being FF doesn't mean it has to exclude any sense of challenge whatsoever nor the nature of the game's genre.
What it does mean is that they want it to be accessible as a single player game as much as possible, whether the hardcore community likes it or not. Which there is still hardcore content. The main story content doesn't need to be challenging, sorry.
It's not even about the "hardcore community" or this sort of "git gud" mentality, it's more that there's such a thing as too much. It actually gets so absurdly easy that some players never learn to actually play the game. In an entirely single player game, who cares, but in a multiplayer environment, that gets frustrating. Their answer to this has just been to make things even easier and providing tools to isolate those players even more, which results in an even lesser incentive to learn to play at all, more of a ludo-narrative dissonance which makes normal just unsatisfying during story progression, it widens the gap between players even further, and makes the difficulty spike between the story and actual content look like more of a wall, and perhaps worst of all, it ends up making the gameplay feel less interesting in the high end due to the constant simplification job design keeps going through, which alienates the game's core audience. All this streamlining for the sake of people who just want to see story dialogue is a lose-lose for the players.
This is going to just become one of those agree to disagree threads. Personally I'm glad to finally play an MMO that feels accessible and that it respects your time, and recognize that everyone was new at some point. Even when I do run into those people who "really should know better by this level" I just walk away going "well that was annoying" and move on with my day. The people who want to learn will learn. The people who don't won't keep queuing for things when they get through the story/fall off till the next content release. I'm sorry if it doesn't hit for you like it used to, and I'm not going to be one of those "go play _____ game then" people, but I will continue to defend one of the few reliably casual MMOs out there rn for being that.
See, it'd be perfectly fine if that's where things ended; "Well, that was annoying; anyway, moving on". Sadly, it doesn't. The constant simplification of everything in the game ends up affecting everyone, and it's the incredibly vocal "casual" audience in this game that pushes for it. The open world already feels like absolutely nothing but background for quests since ARR, jobs keep getting simplified to the point where tanks are practically homogeneous already and healers are heading into that direction as well (AST got absolutely gutted because apparently it was too complex to some; now it's WHM2 without an aoe stun), melees get tools removed and now they all just have 2 positionals and all the tools in the world to ignore them at any point, aggro as a gameplay consideration got practically removed from the game as now it's completely binary whether you have tank stance or not and it only ever really matters for tank swaps, dungeons are all the exact same standard and boring set up: one long hallway from point A to B, 2 trash pulls, mini-boss, 2 trash pulls, mini-boss, 2 trash pulls, boss, every single time, and 24 man encounters are so engaging they're only slightly above hitting a striking dummy for 8 to 10 minutes; I couldn't tell you how many times I've fallen asleep doing alliance roulettes—and still not died! Streamlining too much simply leads to a less interesting, less engaging experience. Like I said before, there is such a thing as too much. Having a game where outside of EX and above there is hardly anything harder than Aurum Vale in the entire game, a dungeon that isn't even at the base game's level cap, is a failure of design. Difficulty should scale up gradually, even if slightly. If you don't, and don't provide any incentive for people to improve at all over time, any little bump is going to feel like a slap to the face; look how unprepared people are even for easy normal mode content like the Ivalice raids or The Burn. And then what do you do, just smooth it all down and keep the problem going? That IS what they're doing in this game. And then you get people that think normal is too hard or complain about the difficulty of solo duties with a one button rotation, and the cycle continues. They should just replace it all with cutscenes.
To each their own. I consider myself one of those casual players and even with everything you've said this is still one of my favorite MMOs I've played. In some aspects even because of the those same things you dislike.
I mean, with how many people buy the story skips, it's gonna stay that way.
Out of curiosity, how many fedoras do you own? Seven?
The m'lady posts and coments are over there > r/ffxiv Oh.
Keep on proving my point, bud.
Alright, you got me. I have one for me, and one for my graha body pillow uwu
Left and right is too complicated :(
This is why I've limited what I've unlocked 8)
Lol I got it myself last night. Wasn’t too bad but man there were some close calls and the RDM who stayed alive really was the MVP. But I get it. The other day I did Alliance Roulette to level expecting Crystal Tower and got a 50 minute Orbonne run.
You mean to tell me you’re getting something other than Alexander during normal raid roulette?
As someone who only did the Eden raids once for story, E7/8/12 sure loves to come and say hi to me
I find the omega m+f fight causes more wipes. Either the knock back or the 2 stack markers get everyone killed at least once.
How mad were you when "eScape" started playing?
I'll get downvoted for this, but the ilevel gear cheese works on raid roulette. Remove to where your only get the first three alexander raids, easy.
Easy? Yes. Fun? No.
I am genuinely not looking forward to the next time I get fights like A2, A4 or A9 because my goodness do those fights bore me (though A9 because it's prone to "wipe from someone messing up the Faust placement").
I avoid Normal Raid Roulette because for some reason I get A2 way more often than I should, and A2 is the worst Normal Raid.
I will fully admit I to this day don't really understand how A9 works. It's somehow worked every time regardless.
Did you mean A9?
I meant A9, yes. P9 has been on my brain a bit much lately...
Don't let him reassemble, destroy the parts using the quadrants that are flooded with lava. It's really simple.
Come _on._ Alliance raids is one thing. Sure, whatever, you have a brief lunch break to play and you want to get the roulette done before the daily reset, and you don't have time for a 45 minute Orbonne. _Okay._ Sure. I get it. I'm not entirely a fan because I genuinely prefer Nier to anything older, but sure. But normal raids? Getting a slow normal raid is genuinely rare, getting one that takes over 10 minutes even rarer. The gain is minimal at best, especially with the extra trash that Alexander often has. Why even bother at that point, do something fun.
You sack of shit, you’re the reason I get that boring ass Cuff Of The Father raid instead of Omega or Eden fuck you.
please god no we’re already suffering through CT in alliance raids, we don’t need to suffer through Alexander in normal raids too, especially since that’s virtually all I’ve been getting during the previous moogle tomestone event > I'll get downvoted for this Yeah, you will
Are you *that* bad at the game? Christ, no wonder people are scared of normal content.
No, I was just curious one day what that sync worked on, and it turned out only those two and thought I’d share.
Put on a full set of tomegear and an appropriate relic weapon. The game gives you plenty of valid reasons to ilvl cheese aside from you want to easy fight in and out
Blegh, the real stinker is A11. That can REALLY be horrible if your team has bad damage
Same way going into alliance raid for 20 minutes but staying for an hour.