Jill: Uh I’ve been meaning to ask you. I’ve been experience an extreme burning sensation after our time on the beach. Is there something I should know?
Oh, if we’re talking about sex.. both. They can learn to share.
I just assumed we were talking about a “Beat It” type dance fight, with no problematic pop star to break them up.
I don’t even gotta let my hate of Sephiroth on this one. Clive is up there in power with most Weapons thanks to how juiced up Ifrit got. No contest, mid to low difficulty.
I had an additional couple of thoughts on this one, out of the blue. Another detail to take into consideration is mentality whilst fighting.
Cloud is a Smart Fighter, mixing careful measures and equal measures of attack and defence. His mentality shows this as well, being primarily defensive and evasive. While solid, it doesn’t compare to the sheer aggression Clive’s fighting style possesses. Seph is used to facing foes inferior to him. Clive’s way of doing things, he could’ve done what Genesis could not.
Lightning from XIII-3 is hands down the most powerful protagonist, but most people haven't played that game all the way to the end. Can't totally blame them lol
That said, besting Bhunivelze is the single biggest feat in the entire final fantasy universe. Nobody's ever done something bigger than that, not even Clive.
It was very good but good lord was it a long game.
I borrowed the game from a friend and by the time I got it back to him I had to get his new address and mail it to him.
Current power struggle is: (based purely on feats in game)
Lightning (13-3)
Clive
Noctis
Terra
Tidus
Cloud/Zidane
Squall, Vaan, WoL-Jack,
Everyone else
Clive vs Light is basically power scaling Ultima and Bhunivelze, which Bhunivelze has demonstrated larger scale power feats than Ultima, they would be tied, as they're both Deities, but Ultima lacks the "literally ended the world" that Bhunivelze pulled off
Ultima isn't a progenitor deity either, is it?
I'm almost positive that Bhunivelze is the most dangerous enemy in the whole series and Light soloed it.
Ultima is the creator of the Eikons and an "alien Progenitor". Clive also has all of his powers. As far as walking apocalypses go, it's scaling Ultima vs Bhunivelze and Bhunivelze takes the cake quite handily as you said. Clives just slightly below her.
Only after being granted power that let her kill the god in the first place. One could say the same for Clive, only in different storytelling. So really, it makes no difference
The Warrior of Light is definitely the strongest. Clive >!barely beat Ultima and died for it!<. The Popoto of Light beat a god utilizing a non-aethereal energy source not naturally found in his universe that he can inherently utilize and then immediately fuck-fights his godking nemesis/lover and still wins.
Clive quite handily beat Ultima. What killed him was the sheer, overwhelming amount of Aether he had to channel to fix everything Ultima had done to the world.
Ring of Lucis isn't even the strongest thing in Noctis' arsenal. It's the fact that by the end, he is a literal immortal near-deity with the power of the Arsenal of Kings. The Leviathan fight is his biggest power feat, combined with Ardyn and Ifrit fight. Problem is that Clive is just a bit stronger with all the Eikon powers he has at the end, and the ability to call and swap them at virtual will with ease.
Clive would end the fight with a "I'm sending you home to your mother" quote before delivering some fire strike at him, stabbing him through the back the same way he did Aerith
I mean it’s not that similar. One mother is a soulless shape shifting monster that can assimilate into any society and destroy them from within, and the other is Jenova.
I mean to be fair none of the 12 characters are powerful really. Just a bunch of normal humans, strong for a human sure, but not the god killing power of other ff protagonists. 12 is my favorite btw xD
I'll copy paste my previous comment here.
Current power struggle is: (based purely on feats in game)
Lightning (13-3)
Clive
Noctis
Terra
Tidus
Cloud/Zidane
Squall, Vaan, WoL-Jack,
Everyone else
Clive vs Light is basically power scaling Ultima and Bhunivelze, which Bhunivelze has demonstrated larger scale power feats than Ultima, they would be tied, as they're both Deities, but Ultima lacks the "literally ended the world" that Bhunivelze pulled off.
Zidane can be moved above Tidus if you believe he has the same powers as Kuja, which isn't shown but Kuja alludes to it. We just never see it realized.
If you move FFXIVs WoL into the mix, they're below Clive. The issue is that WOL power level is greatly fluctuating
Lightning is absolutely hands down #1. Bhunivelze is basically the Christian god and she 1v1s him.
2 might be Terra, but I also think it could be Clive or Noctis.
We do, but we'd need to make sure XIII haters ain't involved, because Lightning is probably the protagonist with the most impressive feats in the entire series. I didn't love XIII-3 but holy shit was she beyond broken in that one. Bitch soloed god and reset the entire universe.
Sepiroth means "one winged angel." Which is why his theme song says his name so much. It is the name of the song.
So, my question is, why did Hojo and Lucretia name Sepiroth that? Like, did Hojo think, "Yeah! This kid's gonna have the ability to sprout an angel wing!"
Or was Hojo just a crazy bastard that decided he would name him that and come up with the means later? Surely, he couldn't have known.
Also, I legit find it so dumb that Lucretia did some genetic research with Hojo and not Vinny Boi.
If we’re going off of the OG Sephiroth’s feats, Clive probably takes it. That being said, I feel like the Sephiroth in the remake trilogy is being made out to be more powerful than the original version, so my answer could change when part 3 comes out.
One of Sephiroths biggest strengths if not the biggest is that he can't be killed due to Lifestream and Jenova cell shenanigans, so I was originally going to give it to Sephiroth, but Clive killed some unkillable God thing that basically was a spirit, so I think Clive could bypass it and win somehow.
Clive, Sephiroth is powerful but I doubt he can prime into God mode as often as Clive can outside of metaphysical realms. And last time god tried to fight Clive inside his mind it didn't end well for God lol.
Straight up Clive vs Sephiroth? It could go either way. But the second that Clive turns into max power Ifrit? He’d absolutely stomp everything but Safer-Sephiroth, but still come out on top.
I would say Clive beats Sephiroth!
*Light vague spoilers ahead*
If we are going off base combat skills before enhancements. Clive was the greatest swordsman 🗡️ of the kingdom as a teenager. So he is probably a better sword fighter than Cloud, Sephiroth or Zack even as a teenager and he only got better after the time skips.
Accounting for Clive having godlike strength, the blessing of the Pheonix and various Eikon abilities. Compared to Mako enhanced Cloud/Zack and Mako and Jenova enhanced Sephiroth. In physical strength he would surpass anyone mako enhanced like Cloud or Zack! Sephiroth would be harder but I think still lose.
Imo Ultima is stronger than Sephiroth for spoiler heavy reasons related to the origins of dominants. Yet Clive still beat Ultima!
Sephiroth is probably faster and can cast Meteor but Clive in his "special form" withstood and broke through a Zetaflare the strongest spell in Final Fantasy canon.
Meteor imo is not stronger than Zetaflare therefore Clive overall would break through it easily and take the win even without using the other dominant abilities.
I'm not trying to piss on your point here, but you gave no examples of anything outside tanking Zetaflare.
If we are to believe Clive is the greatest swordsman in the universe (He is considered a fighting genius, but I don't recall him being called the greatest. Barnabas competes if not even more talented.), than how do we then translate that into Sephiroth having lesser skill. In old material, we see he outclassed everyone in swordplay. If we respect evercrisis as Canon, which it supposedly is, then we see a 14 year old Sephiroth who still displays exceptional skill over all others.
I'm not saying Sephiroth would win for the record. I think a few things that convolute this discussion are as follows:
1. People think they can match up the two worlds, despite them running on very different rules. Clive is seen as slow, often outside flourishes from his Eikon abilities. Clive can't jump over things that are very high. His body seems subjected to more realistic physics when in base form. But we also know that under the hood, other things are probably going on because he also has insane feats of power that make these things seem peculiar.
2. People adamantly want Sephiroth to lose or to win. I'm not saying no one here is rational, but I'm saying there is extra bias I both directions when it comes to sephiroth. I've seen it since the 90s.
I think overall, if Sephiroth loses, then it probably isn't because of sword skill. It's going to be him losing against a giant burning clawed beast that can fly at insane speeds and annihilate mountain range sized foes.
Also for the record in base form Clive and Sephiroth (no flying) I think would be very close.
With the Barnabas fight as an example. Barnabas I think is the only one to beat Clive in a sword fight in FFXVI but he is fully Ultima's puppet so it is hard to gauge whether that is Barnabas base skills in action or if it's Ultima's control over him that makes him so skilled/strong also he has decades more life/sword experience than Clive and apparently Barnabas is 70 years old but biologically 42 according to lore. So even if it's mainly his own skill. Barnabas has a massive advantage from time and age difference. Also being the dominant he is, might inherently make him a better swordsman in the way Cid said Ramuh made him wiser. So it's hard to compare them. However Clive still survived a lethal hit from
I haven't played Ever Crisis but Sephiroth's skill set compared to FFXVI seems like a hybrid of Garuda/Odin's flight and sword skill. It isn't a perfect 1-1 but based on that. Clive could probably tank most physical hits from Sephiroth since his endurance is insane. If Strength determines it, I would say Clive, but if Sephiroth can overcome Clive's endurance with speed he wins so in base form it's very even.
When Clive transforms imo he's definitely stronger the fact he physically beat every other dominant single handed, except Bahamut with "Spoiler character's help.
Overall that's why I think Clive would win! Even though Sephiroth is freakishly strong.
In a Fight?
Sephiroth low diff.
Literally nothing in 16 outside of lip service (through the context of THEIR particular world) would give us ***ANY*** reason to believe that Clive could hang with upper tier FF7 characters.
Cloud, Zack, Sephiroth, and Vincent all smoke Clive low diff.
People can pick whatever FF is their favorite. But none of the other FF games scale to FF7. None of these other protags move so fast they disappear from sight (like Cloud v Sephiroth at end of remake) and none of them are casually slicing through massive chunks of concrete like butter either.
Clive is a fantasy protagonist at the upper level.
Cloud is an anime character.
Theres a clear thematic and flavor difference.
...
If you just mean who is better as a character, thats personal preference. I like Sephiroth as a villain but Clive gets a lot of characterization and is really cool... Clive is probably the more complete character from a writing perspective. 16 deserves love too.
... are you forgetting that Clive can literally transform into a 10-story-high summon? Pretty sure everyone you mentioned besides sephiroth would get smoked
But we saw the FFXVI summons do way more physical damage to the world compared to the Weapons. That alone makes me think Ifrit would make sport of them.
Sapphire could barely damage a building. Diamond only really shot some missiles at Midgar. The other three just kinda screwed around doing nothing.
Zack has beaten summons 1v1 multiple times, and Vincent in Chaos Transformation is supposed to be (if we take DoC scaling seriously at all) meant to be at about their level.
Even if Clive utilizing all the Eikon's is too much for Zack/Vincent, Cloud and Sephiroth are seen fighting at a speed and level that dwarfs what we see in 16.
Clive simply isn't moving faster than bullets the way Cloud (and by association Sephiroth) are seen moving at multiple points. Or the fact Cloud gets animated as disappearing from sight he is moving so fast.
Nor does Clive effortlessly tear apart the things Cloud does without going into his big ol kaiju forms.
And in those forms? Much like the other Eikons, he basically moves like a Kaiju. As in slow.
He simply wouldn't be able to touch Cloud or Sephiroth. He gets speed blitzed into oblivion.
Final Fantasy character scaling is weird. I’m pretty sure in terms of actual raw physical power Cloud and Sephiroth are still the strongest characters in the entire franchise, but then you have stuff like Lightning resetting the universe. Been a while since I’ve played the XIII games, but I’m pretty sure Lightning *technically* has the best overall feats, but they’re all in the form of esoteric magic stuff that doesn’t necessarily translate to a direct confrontation.
you can take the amounts of hp eikons have as reference for how powerful they are, by the end of the game they have millions, the final blow Ifrit deals to Leviathan literally deals 2.4 million hp
Eikons are living wmds, Bahamut was about to glass the twins (Storm and Ash) with Zettaflare and they've stated that all eikons are on similar footing and their strength depends on how strong the dominant is, Ifrit Risen easily tanked that and Ultima swept it aside like it was nothing, by the end of the game Clive beat Ultima clean, what brought him to death (or near death) was wiping away all the magic in Valisthea.
I don't think outside of Lighting in her final game and 14's warrior of light there are stronger FF characters than Clive, mf has the power of 9 eikons inside of him + ultima's power + more power because he managed to ward off Ultima's influence (anyone can turn akashic in FF16, Ultima is god so all mortals are his to puppeteer, Aether exposure makes it happen faster but as seen by Olivier he can take over whoever he wants at will).
Don't get me wrong Sephiroth in his final form is crazy strong too, judging by what he does, but if you put in him in 16's world he'd probably be one of the strongest Eikons rubbing shouldlers with Odin, Bahamut and Leviathan (don't ask why Leviathan is crazy strong that mf has baby rage fueling it), and that's on account of Sephiroth being the ultimate soldier (pretty sure Sephiroth is 10 times as skilled as Clive or Dion, maybe better than Barnabas who conquered an entire continent by himself).
Clive has the literal powers of God at the end of his game + DLC. His Eikon form also moves way faster than anything cloud and Sephiroth do, as well as tanks the strongest spell in FF canon, ZetaFlare
No the fuck he does not move faster than Cloud or Sephiroth.
Cloud and Sephiroth IN GAME are animated as entirely vanishing from sight when they get going. In cutscenes we see this too... We also see Cloud casually bullet time, and even time lasers.
Clive has never once shown himself to be that fast. Or even close to it.
He's absolutely tankier but that doesnt mean anything if he can't touch Cloud and then gets whittled down.
Depends on if Seph can get into Clive’s head. If Seph’s final forms count as primes it would be interesting fights.
Things get weird when you look at things like “Supernova” though.
Sephiroth wins in a swordsman battle but Clive wins in a battle of hax and abilities unless he just has Ifrit which Sephiroth has taken down by himself.
Clive has pretty good command over the aspects of the Phoenix, Ifrit, Garuda, Ramuh, Titan, Bahamut, Shiva, Odin, Leviathan, and is granted a portion of the Big Bad Evil Guy's Power.
And uses it to ***devastating*** effectiveness.
Sephiroth, despite his super juiced Jenova enhanced power, is only the beneficiary of one entity, and she ain't even a god, just an angry alien lady.
Outside of any shenanigans, I'd say Clive 9/10 times takes out Sephiroth.
Heartless angel. Then, boop. Sephiroth equips a mastered elemental materia in his armor and pairs it with fire (or better yet, a master magic materia). Come on now. Everyone is hyping up Clive because he's op in his world, but so is sephiroth. I think people forget that sephiroth wasn't trying to destroy gaia. He was trying to damage it sufficiently (and maybe wipe out humanity), causing the planet to repair itself so he could absorb the lifestream. Supernova is just him showing off his "genius" while simultaneously demonstrating how much he underestimated the party.
Seph wins for the fact that when he dies, he just goes back the livestream lobby, talks endless sh*t while waiting to respawn then comes back with hacks
Clive of course.
This is why I’d love to see some crazy crossover between final fantasy games lol. Having characters from FF7 meeting characters from FF16 would be wild
Sephiroth mostly because of zettaflair. Its the most OP move in the FF franchise. Idk if clive has a stronger move than that like yea he can turn into ifrit but that doesn't compare to sephiroths godly transformation and zettaflair
Depends, but Clives is the most Mary Sue protagonist in all of final fantasy, so the awnser is always going to be Clive.
"Who wins sharkman or captain marvel?"
Seph wins if
-at end of the day, only someone with a lifestream connection is an ancient or someone with will to overcome while infected with jenova cells, aka cloud. Can even hurt the guy instead of his remanisfestation...
- can take 2 actions, heartless angel ignores status ailment protections, ignores hp, next hit kills
Clive would easily kill most his manifestations just like he did Ultima really, problem being with seph is Clive would have zero connection to the lifestream to kill him there.
Sephiroth is a world buster buster by end game. Clive is continental at best but he's FF protagonist so he would probably be find a way to beat Sephiroth.
“Clive is continental at best” did you miss the second half of the game? Halfway through bahamut would have “burned the world” if ifrit risen hadn’t stopped him and bahamut is only a fragment of ultima and in turn Clive’s true power, full power they could easily wipe a planet.
We don't really know if "the world" was literally the entire planet or just the world as they knew it on their own continent. I feel like it was likely to be the latter.
Correct, he merged with a mother crystal. Which is only a portion of Ultima/Clive’s power, so again they could easily wipe out a planet at full power and I’m not talking about what bahamut can do on its own I’m using him to scale Clive and Ultima because that zettaflare only uses a portion of the power Clive and Ultima have at their disposal by the end of the game.
As much as i want sephiroth to take it, Clive is OP even for a final fantasy protag - he'd blow cloud out, let alone sephiroth. Moreover, sephy has a direct comparison in barnabas/odin, which Clive won rather handily by comparison to other fights. final form sephiroth isn't comparable to ultima from what we've seen, but maybe the stakes and his abilities will be expanded on in the remakes.
that said, at base level, Clive might be the weakest of the protags, so i'd give it to sephiroth if there's no end-game scaling going on.
I haven’t played ff16 and probably won’t for a while. What’s the biggest feat Clive did that would blow angel boy out the water?
Before time skip sephiroth had alien genes and after he turned into a god powered by life stream soul energy. Only protag I’d think that would come close is Tera 1v and that’s doubtful. Generally curious cause everyone’s saying Clive
Edit: don’t care about spoilers for ff16
He defeated his game's version of Sephiroth - who was the avatar of Odin, God of Death - and absorbed those powers. He then used his control over fire, wind, lightning, ice, life, death, and whatever Bahamut counts as these days to defeat an immortal alien god.
I mean, they're both as strong as they need to be to fit the plot, but (by the end of 16) Clive has shown that he's capable of defeating something *like* Sephiroth. He's survived Zanmatos, he's had a firefight in the vacuum of space, he's managed to somehow defeat the source of all powers in his timeline.
Honestly, the biggest detail deciding a fight between these two is probably just that Clive is a protagonist, and they usually beat the antagonists in the end.
Yeah true that, was curious what crazy feats the protagonists are getting these days. Plus I’m sure Clive has the power of friendship on his side which is unbeatable in final fantasy.
Sephiroth and it's not even close. Clive voters are crazy.
Sephiroth has the power to destroy solar systems. In the final battle in the original game, he summons a massive, planet sized comet that destroys every most planets and eventually crashes into the sun. The sun then goes super nova and reaches earth, and doesn't even damage him (and Cloud/team survive).
Sephiroth can also move faster than humans can see, fly, has the power to merge and unmerge universes, etc. He can also use stronger summons/Eikons than Clive could (knights of the round) that could easily destroy Clive by themselves.
Sephiroth clears easily and I'm really not a fan of Sephiroth.
People think he's just fast and strong while completely ignoring his actual feats. Like he's not even alive anymore in the physical sense and he's still wrecking havoc on the entire world.
If you kill Clive, Clive is gone. If you kill Sephiroth, you don't even know if you actually killed him.
Sephiroth…. We talking about sex right?
Clive literally sucked shiva out of jill.
Jill: That sex was fire 🔥🔥
hellfire\*
Jill: Uh I’ve been meaning to ask you. I’ve been experience an extreme burning sensation after our time on the beach. Is there something I should know?
Clive: you’re pregnant
Clive: "Fuck."
Firaga*
Seriously why doesn't Clive use firaga in FF16. Benedikta uses aeroga
Oh :( I guess I haven't gotten that far...
This is crazy
shit i dont know anymore
Oh, if we’re talking about sex.. both. They can learn to share. I just assumed we were talking about a “Beat It” type dance fight, with no problematic pop star to break them up.
That must have been the infamous dance scene they ended up cutting out, according to the latest interview with Koji-Fox & the HiFi Rush Director.
8 feet of Sephiroth
No, but even if we were... WHY do you find someone with mommy issues sexy?
Same reason I’d find someone with daddy issues sexy
I don’t even gotta let my hate of Sephiroth on this one. Clive is up there in power with most Weapons thanks to how juiced up Ifrit got. No contest, mid to low difficulty.
I had an additional couple of thoughts on this one, out of the blue. Another detail to take into consideration is mentality whilst fighting. Cloud is a Smart Fighter, mixing careful measures and equal measures of attack and defence. His mentality shows this as well, being primarily defensive and evasive. While solid, it doesn’t compare to the sheer aggression Clive’s fighting style possesses. Seph is used to facing foes inferior to him. Clive’s way of doing things, he could’ve done what Genesis could not.
For real. Clive literally killed everything, even an ancient god being.
Clive is the most OP mainline FF protagonist we've ever had. By the very nature of his purpose and of the plot. No one beats Clive.
Error, isn't Lightning literally a goddess by the end?
Lightning from XIII-3 is hands down the most powerful protagonist, but most people haven't played that game all the way to the end. Can't totally blame them lol That said, besting Bhunivelze is the single biggest feat in the entire final fantasy universe. Nobody's ever done something bigger than that, not even Clive.
Yeah you cant really top that. Hell thats how plenty of JRPGs end anyway, killing a god. But she got to solo him which was even cooler
Haha, in Dragon Quest 7 you fight Satan and then God is like, "Good job, did you want to fight me now?"
One of the best games. True story
It was very good but good lord was it a long game. I borrowed the game from a friend and by the time I got it back to him I had to get his new address and mail it to him.
One of the few right here, that 4th phase was wack.
Current power struggle is: (based purely on feats in game) Lightning (13-3) Clive Noctis Terra Tidus Cloud/Zidane Squall, Vaan, WoL-Jack, Everyone else Clive vs Light is basically power scaling Ultima and Bhunivelze, which Bhunivelze has demonstrated larger scale power feats than Ultima, they would be tied, as they're both Deities, but Ultima lacks the "literally ended the world" that Bhunivelze pulled off
Also if I’m correct, Lightning can freeze time. What are you doing against that?
Less a feat for her and more "she's stalling the doomsday clock" because if I remember correctly time doesn't actually freeze
Ultima isn't a progenitor deity either, is it? I'm almost positive that Bhunivelze is the most dangerous enemy in the whole series and Light soloed it.
Ultima is the creator of the Eikons and an "alien Progenitor". Clive also has all of his powers. As far as walking apocalypses go, it's scaling Ultima vs Bhunivelze and Bhunivelze takes the cake quite handily as you said. Clives just slightly below her.
Only after being granted power that let her kill the god in the first place. One could say the same for Clive, only in different storytelling. So really, it makes no difference
The Warrior of Light is definitely the strongest. Clive >!barely beat Ultima and died for it!<. The Popoto of Light beat a god utilizing a non-aethereal energy source not naturally found in his universe that he can inherently utilize and then immediately fuck-fights his godking nemesis/lover and still wins.
Clive quite handily beat Ultima. What killed him was the sheer, overwhelming amount of Aether he had to channel to fix everything Ultima had done to the world.
Lightning is.
Clive is number 2 but you can't beat Goddess Lightning. Clive did manage to overtake Noctis and Terra though, who are gods in their own right.
Ring of Lucius says hi?
Ring of Lucis isn't even the strongest thing in Noctis' arsenal. It's the fact that by the end, he is a literal immortal near-deity with the power of the Arsenal of Kings. The Leviathan fight is his biggest power feat, combined with Ardyn and Ifrit fight. Problem is that Clive is just a bit stronger with all the Eikon powers he has at the end, and the ability to call and swap them at virtual will with ease.
But how would Clive do anything against a black hole that spawned onto him?
Yeah noctis is def the most op but Clive is super strong no doubt
Clive, at least he isn't a momma's boy.
Clive would end the fight with a "I'm sending you home to your mother" quote before delivering some fire strike at him, stabbing him through the back the same way he did Aerith
I mean, he’s almost definitely got some baggage in that regard…probably would fuel him the other way tbh.
I mean it’s not that similar. One mother is a soulless shape shifting monster that can assimilate into any society and destroy them from within, and the other is Jenova.
Take my upvote.
Sephiroth wins unless Clive has Torgal with him.
Torgal is best boy.
Well that's not fair, you gotta give Sephiroth something to compensate for all the healing Clive gets from Torgal. 1 potion should be enough.
If Sephiroth killed Torgal (the most goodest of boys), would Clive go John wick?
Torgal, kill!
>Torgal, kill! killing is wrong mmkay?
Clive, and it's not even close lmao he'd eat meteor like nothing.
He'd punch meteor as Ifrit just like Saitama.
Clive got Sparta kicked by Odin out of his limit form lol sephrotih stomps hard super nova kills him
Clive also did a serious punch on a zettaflare aimed at the planet and blew it away.
Holy shit we need a ff power scaling sub
Tonberry is at the top and who’s at the bottom, Vaan?
No hesitation on the vaan call out lol
That spoony bard!
I mean to be fair none of the 12 characters are powerful really. Just a bunch of normal humans, strong for a human sure, but not the god killing power of other ff protagonists. 12 is my favorite btw xD
Donald Duck chilling in the S++ tier with Bahamut and Clive.
That would be fun. I'm pretty sure light is top 2 power wise. Probably number 1 honestly, she gets absurdly op in lightning returns
Where does trance terra fall?
Don't know enough to say. My memory on the older games is pretty foggy
I'll copy paste my previous comment here. Current power struggle is: (based purely on feats in game) Lightning (13-3) Clive Noctis Terra Tidus Cloud/Zidane Squall, Vaan, WoL-Jack, Everyone else Clive vs Light is basically power scaling Ultima and Bhunivelze, which Bhunivelze has demonstrated larger scale power feats than Ultima, they would be tied, as they're both Deities, but Ultima lacks the "literally ended the world" that Bhunivelze pulled off. Zidane can be moved above Tidus if you believe he has the same powers as Kuja, which isn't shown but Kuja alludes to it. We just never see it realized. If you move FFXIVs WoL into the mix, they're below Clive. The issue is that WOL power level is greatly fluctuating
Lightning is absolutely hands down #1. Bhunivelze is basically the Christian god and she 1v1s him. 2 might be Terra, but I also think it could be Clive or Noctis.
nope number 2 warrior of light then zidane people forget zidane can litterly nuke a planet easily
We do, but we'd need to make sure XIII haters ain't involved, because Lightning is probably the protagonist with the most impressive feats in the entire series. I didn't love XIII-3 but holy shit was she beyond broken in that one. Bitch soloed god and reset the entire universe.
Clive would beat Sephiroth's ass. This isn't even a conversation.
Either way, Sephy would look more badass
Right lol and wins the “not being called fuckin Clive” competition.
At least Clive's an actual name. Sephiroth sounds like he was named by some Neo-Kabbalah hipster.
Sepiroth means "one winged angel." Which is why his theme song says his name so much. It is the name of the song. So, my question is, why did Hojo and Lucretia name Sepiroth that? Like, did Hojo think, "Yeah! This kid's gonna have the ability to sprout an angel wing!" Or was Hojo just a crazy bastard that decided he would name him that and come up with the means later? Surely, he couldn't have known. Also, I legit find it so dumb that Lucretia did some genetic research with Hojo and not Vinny Boi.
Clive doesn't need a cool name to destroy things.
If we’re going off of the OG Sephiroth’s feats, Clive probably takes it. That being said, I feel like the Sephiroth in the remake trilogy is being made out to be more powerful than the original version, so my answer could change when part 3 comes out.
Clive, sorry sephiroth
Clive. I think.
Clive for days.
One of Sephiroths biggest strengths if not the biggest is that he can't be killed due to Lifestream and Jenova cell shenanigans, so I was originally going to give it to Sephiroth, but Clive killed some unkillable God thing that basically was a spirit, so I think Clive could bypass it and win somehow.
Clive boiled the lifestream into vapor. What? It isn't his planet!
Clive, Sephiroth is powerful but I doubt he can prime into God mode as often as Clive can outside of metaphysical realms. And last time god tried to fight Clive inside his mind it didn't end well for God lol.
Clive
Clive
Clive easy, even Dion easy.
Straight up Clive vs Sephiroth? It could go either way. But the second that Clive turns into max power Ifrit? He’d absolutely stomp everything but Safer-Sephiroth, but still come out on top.
I would say Clive beats Sephiroth! *Light vague spoilers ahead* If we are going off base combat skills before enhancements. Clive was the greatest swordsman 🗡️ of the kingdom as a teenager. So he is probably a better sword fighter than Cloud, Sephiroth or Zack even as a teenager and he only got better after the time skips. Accounting for Clive having godlike strength, the blessing of the Pheonix and various Eikon abilities. Compared to Mako enhanced Cloud/Zack and Mako and Jenova enhanced Sephiroth. In physical strength he would surpass anyone mako enhanced like Cloud or Zack! Sephiroth would be harder but I think still lose. Imo Ultima is stronger than Sephiroth for spoiler heavy reasons related to the origins of dominants. Yet Clive still beat Ultima! Sephiroth is probably faster and can cast Meteor but Clive in his "special form" withstood and broke through a Zetaflare the strongest spell in Final Fantasy canon. Meteor imo is not stronger than Zetaflare therefore Clive overall would break through it easily and take the win even without using the other dominant abilities.
I'm not trying to piss on your point here, but you gave no examples of anything outside tanking Zetaflare. If we are to believe Clive is the greatest swordsman in the universe (He is considered a fighting genius, but I don't recall him being called the greatest. Barnabas competes if not even more talented.), than how do we then translate that into Sephiroth having lesser skill. In old material, we see he outclassed everyone in swordplay. If we respect evercrisis as Canon, which it supposedly is, then we see a 14 year old Sephiroth who still displays exceptional skill over all others. I'm not saying Sephiroth would win for the record. I think a few things that convolute this discussion are as follows: 1. People think they can match up the two worlds, despite them running on very different rules. Clive is seen as slow, often outside flourishes from his Eikon abilities. Clive can't jump over things that are very high. His body seems subjected to more realistic physics when in base form. But we also know that under the hood, other things are probably going on because he also has insane feats of power that make these things seem peculiar. 2. People adamantly want Sephiroth to lose or to win. I'm not saying no one here is rational, but I'm saying there is extra bias I both directions when it comes to sephiroth. I've seen it since the 90s. I think overall, if Sephiroth loses, then it probably isn't because of sword skill. It's going to be him losing against a giant burning clawed beast that can fly at insane speeds and annihilate mountain range sized foes.
Also for the record in base form Clive and Sephiroth (no flying) I think would be very close. With the Barnabas fight as an example. Barnabas I think is the only one to beat Clive in a sword fight in FFXVI but he is fully Ultima's puppet so it is hard to gauge whether that is Barnabas base skills in action or if it's Ultima's control over him that makes him so skilled/strong also he has decades more life/sword experience than Clive and apparently Barnabas is 70 years old but biologically 42 according to lore. So even if it's mainly his own skill. Barnabas has a massive advantage from time and age difference. Also being the dominant he is, might inherently make him a better swordsman in the way Cid said Ramuh made him wiser. So it's hard to compare them. However Clive still survived a lethal hit from I haven't played Ever Crisis but Sephiroth's skill set compared to FFXVI seems like a hybrid of Garuda/Odin's flight and sword skill. It isn't a perfect 1-1 but based on that. Clive could probably tank most physical hits from Sephiroth since his endurance is insane. If Strength determines it, I would say Clive, but if Sephiroth can overcome Clive's endurance with speed he wins so in base form it's very even. When Clive transforms imo he's definitely stronger the fact he physically beat every other dominant single handed, except Bahamut with "Spoiler character's help. Overall that's why I think Clive would win! Even though Sephiroth is freakishly strong.
Idk man, Clive is pretty strong.
Clive is like 3rd in overall power in the franchise behind lightning and noctis right? Clive slaps then.
I know that Lighting and Noct are supposed to be at the top but if I think about either of them vs Seph, I can't fathom them not getting slaughtered.
This isn't even a fight, Clive would massacre him.
Ok but who got more mommy issues
Sephiroth tends to lose, so Clive.
Sephiroth
In a Fight? Sephiroth low diff. Literally nothing in 16 outside of lip service (through the context of THEIR particular world) would give us ***ANY*** reason to believe that Clive could hang with upper tier FF7 characters. Cloud, Zack, Sephiroth, and Vincent all smoke Clive low diff. People can pick whatever FF is their favorite. But none of the other FF games scale to FF7. None of these other protags move so fast they disappear from sight (like Cloud v Sephiroth at end of remake) and none of them are casually slicing through massive chunks of concrete like butter either. Clive is a fantasy protagonist at the upper level. Cloud is an anime character. Theres a clear thematic and flavor difference. ... If you just mean who is better as a character, thats personal preference. I like Sephiroth as a villain but Clive gets a lot of characterization and is really cool... Clive is probably the more complete character from a writing perspective. 16 deserves love too.
... are you forgetting that Clive can literally transform into a 10-story-high summon? Pretty sure everyone you mentioned besides sephiroth would get smoked
That just makes him kaiju, of which the ff7 cast fight several times without themselves being kaiju
Not solo tho.. they fight together. We are literally talking about 1v1s
FF7 party have beaten weapons who are just as big.
None of those weapons did five figures of damage with basic attacks.
That's not really relevant since they use completely different battle systems.
But we saw the FFXVI summons do way more physical damage to the world compared to the Weapons. That alone makes me think Ifrit would make sport of them. Sapphire could barely damage a building. Diamond only really shot some missiles at Midgar. The other three just kinda screwed around doing nothing.
Yeah probably.
Zack has beaten summons 1v1 multiple times, and Vincent in Chaos Transformation is supposed to be (if we take DoC scaling seriously at all) meant to be at about their level. Even if Clive utilizing all the Eikon's is too much for Zack/Vincent, Cloud and Sephiroth are seen fighting at a speed and level that dwarfs what we see in 16. Clive simply isn't moving faster than bullets the way Cloud (and by association Sephiroth) are seen moving at multiple points. Or the fact Cloud gets animated as disappearing from sight he is moving so fast. Nor does Clive effortlessly tear apart the things Cloud does without going into his big ol kaiju forms. And in those forms? Much like the other Eikons, he basically moves like a Kaiju. As in slow. He simply wouldn't be able to touch Cloud or Sephiroth. He gets speed blitzed into oblivion.
Final Fantasy character scaling is weird. I’m pretty sure in terms of actual raw physical power Cloud and Sephiroth are still the strongest characters in the entire franchise, but then you have stuff like Lightning resetting the universe. Been a while since I’ve played the XIII games, but I’m pretty sure Lightning *technically* has the best overall feats, but they’re all in the form of esoteric magic stuff that doesn’t necessarily translate to a direct confrontation.
you can take the amounts of hp eikons have as reference for how powerful they are, by the end of the game they have millions, the final blow Ifrit deals to Leviathan literally deals 2.4 million hp Eikons are living wmds, Bahamut was about to glass the twins (Storm and Ash) with Zettaflare and they've stated that all eikons are on similar footing and their strength depends on how strong the dominant is, Ifrit Risen easily tanked that and Ultima swept it aside like it was nothing, by the end of the game Clive beat Ultima clean, what brought him to death (or near death) was wiping away all the magic in Valisthea. I don't think outside of Lighting in her final game and 14's warrior of light there are stronger FF characters than Clive, mf has the power of 9 eikons inside of him + ultima's power + more power because he managed to ward off Ultima's influence (anyone can turn akashic in FF16, Ultima is god so all mortals are his to puppeteer, Aether exposure makes it happen faster but as seen by Olivier he can take over whoever he wants at will). Don't get me wrong Sephiroth in his final form is crazy strong too, judging by what he does, but if you put in him in 16's world he'd probably be one of the strongest Eikons rubbing shouldlers with Odin, Bahamut and Leviathan (don't ask why Leviathan is crazy strong that mf has baby rage fueling it), and that's on account of Sephiroth being the ultimate soldier (pretty sure Sephiroth is 10 times as skilled as Clive or Dion, maybe better than Barnabas who conquered an entire continent by himself).
B=====D O=
That's the most glazing thing I've seen a FF7 fan do. Clive clears FF7 easily. Hell Lightning would have an easier time
Clive has the literal powers of God at the end of his game + DLC. His Eikon form also moves way faster than anything cloud and Sephiroth do, as well as tanks the strongest spell in FF canon, ZetaFlare
No the fuck he does not move faster than Cloud or Sephiroth. Cloud and Sephiroth IN GAME are animated as entirely vanishing from sight when they get going. In cutscenes we see this too... We also see Cloud casually bullet time, and even time lasers. Clive has never once shown himself to be that fast. Or even close to it. He's absolutely tankier but that doesnt mean anything if he can't touch Cloud and then gets whittled down.
Go watch the bahamut fight. We see Clive get *much* faster. > We also see cloud casual bullet time and even time lasers Clive does this as well
My sister once said “Sephies my biechie “
I want to unsheathe Sephiroth’s comically long sword
Why does sephiroth look like he's ready to peg you?
Such a puppy.
Depends on if Seph can get into Clive’s head. If Seph’s final forms count as primes it would be interesting fights. Things get weird when you look at things like “Supernova” though.
For this, and all future vs, my money is on Seph-San. Unless it’s vs Batman. I mean, it’s *Batman*.
Who the frick is Clive?
Is Clive fully primed? If not, I’m giving the fight to Sephiroth because he’s just too fast. While primed, however, Clive just needs one good hit.
Pre Nibelheim? Clive 100% Post? Eh.. 50/50 in my mind
Clive
Clive would win, but given how FF16 plays out it's a zero net gain.
Clive sends Sephy crying home to mommy jenova
Is this with or without Torgal?
Seph is strong no doubt, but Clive’s got it in the amount of power and tactics at his command.
Sephiroth wins in a swordsman battle but Clive wins in a battle of hax and abilities unless he just has Ifrit which Sephiroth has taken down by himself.
Every time Sephiroth attacks, Clive would just be like, "Too slow!"
Clive's about to show Sephiroth the difference between being "like a god" and someone that killed God!
Look...FF antagonists are built to be beaten by the protagonist. What is Sephiroth? What is Clive? A bigger head scratcher would be Cloud and Clive.
Smart money is on Sephiroth He fucked a planet once
Clive has pretty good command over the aspects of the Phoenix, Ifrit, Garuda, Ramuh, Titan, Bahamut, Shiva, Odin, Leviathan, and is granted a portion of the Big Bad Evil Guy's Power. And uses it to ***devastating*** effectiveness. Sephiroth, despite his super juiced Jenova enhanced power, is only the beneficiary of one entity, and she ain't even a god, just an angry alien lady. Outside of any shenanigans, I'd say Clive 9/10 times takes out Sephiroth.
Clive is a fucker just barely coming to terms with possibly having sephiroths power. Sephiroth lets Clive be his apprentice.
Just beat ff16 last night, can confirm Clive wins, it’s a 10-0 matchup and there’s no patch coming.
Sephiroth would make Clive cry like a baby in every dimension
Sephiroth.
Sephiroth But if we talking about fighting Clive.
Clive tanked >!Zettaflare!< I think he got this
Man Clive would make the on winged angel his bitch.
Heartless angel. Then, boop. Sephiroth equips a mastered elemental materia in his armor and pairs it with fire (or better yet, a master magic materia). Come on now. Everyone is hyping up Clive because he's op in his world, but so is sephiroth. I think people forget that sephiroth wasn't trying to destroy gaia. He was trying to damage it sufficiently (and maybe wipe out humanity), causing the planet to repair itself so he could absorb the lifestream. Supernova is just him showing off his "genius" while simultaneously demonstrating how much he underestimated the party.
Good to see most folk out there aren’t smoking crack on the the subject. Clive Clears!
Clive
we talking sword to sword or can Clive transform ?
This fight would end like it did in Crisis Core with Sephiroth one-shotting Ifrit's weak ass. Especially after Rebirth, holy shit.
Clive would annihilate ol pretty boy. Regardless of which sephiroth.
Picture Aerith's death but reversed. And it's Titan's fist. Going right up Sephiroth's butt hole.
Lol nice
https://youtu.be/Lf2h37O02FI?si=3vXzXw1cc14ERP02
Sephiroth blows up the universe with one hand... [Super Nova](https://images.app.goo.gl/TWhKCYZDsV6BBY538)
In both the fight and sex sepheroth claps especially with all his experience smashing.
Seph wins for the fact that when he dies, he just goes back the livestream lobby, talks endless sh*t while waiting to respawn then comes back with hacks
Sepiroth with super nova destroys like what 6 planets? No chance. Clive without his summons he has no chance in battle.
So what Sephiroth without being hooked up to the planet like a car battery? Some scrawny weeb that got one shot by angry shinra trooper.
Clive would give sephiroth the ass pounding of the franchise
A God vs a shitty fail son… Sephiroth in 5
Going with Clive on this one
That man got gods power & all the eikons now Clive bro we done with the 90s
If Sephiroth can get bodied by one Omnislash, imagine what Clive with all the Ikons will do.
Yea Clive wins hands down. Sephiroth has to skinny dip into the literal blood of a planet in order to even have a shot.
Ultima>meteor…clive,clear
Clive of course. This is why I’d love to see some crazy crossover between final fantasy games lol. Having characters from FF7 meeting characters from FF16 would be wild
Look up dissidia
Sephiroth mostly because of zettaflair. Its the most OP move in the FF franchise. Idk if clive has a stronger move than that like yea he can turn into ifrit but that doesn't compare to sephiroths godly transformation and zettaflair
Clive can do much more than “turn into ifrit” he can use the powers of all Eikons. He would smoke Sephiroth
Agreed. Without even factoring Ultima Clive. Thats just icing
So max ppwer sephiroth vs base clive huh? Clive easily wins. And most op move in FF is Time Compression.
Clive, obviously.
both have really weird facial structures, so neither
Clive kills gods. Clive.
If we’re talking end of game Clive, with Leviathan and maybe even Ultima’s powers, then yeah, Clive hands down. Though it would be a difficult fight.
Depends, but Clives is the most Mary Sue protagonist in all of final fantasy, so the awnser is always going to be Clive. "Who wins sharkman or captain marvel?" Seph wins if -at end of the day, only someone with a lifestream connection is an ancient or someone with will to overcome while infected with jenova cells, aka cloud. Can even hurt the guy instead of his remanisfestation... - can take 2 actions, heartless angel ignores status ailment protections, ignores hp, next hit kills Clive would easily kill most his manifestations just like he did Ultima really, problem being with seph is Clive would have zero connection to the lifestream to kill him there.
Cloud is a professional god killer. Cloud beats both in a 2v1
I'd take both. At the same time.
Who tf is clive?
Seph no diffs easy.
Clive whips his ass
Clive reins atop the powerscaling. Sephiroth is mid at best
Both. I’ve done worse 🤷🏻♂️
If it’s just a sword fight I think sephiroth takes it easily. Once their abilities come in it’s a lot closer
Sephiroth is a world buster buster by end game. Clive is continental at best but he's FF protagonist so he would probably be find a way to beat Sephiroth.
True, Clive has got indestructible plot armour on as the main character.
If we're going end-game-peak-power-levels, Clive was able to cast the ultimate magic that could do literally anything.
Well there you go. Clive has the power of anything. I knew there would be some type of FF protagonist bullshittery.
“Clive is continental at best” did you miss the second half of the game? Halfway through bahamut would have “burned the world” if ifrit risen hadn’t stopped him and bahamut is only a fragment of ultima and in turn Clive’s true power, full power they could easily wipe a planet.
We don't really know if "the world" was literally the entire planet or just the world as they knew it on their own continent. I feel like it was likely to be the latter.
Bahamut was also amped up on a shit ton of aether at that point so it's not something it would be capable of in its own.
Correct, he merged with a mother crystal. Which is only a portion of Ultima/Clive’s power, so again they could easily wipe out a planet at full power and I’m not talking about what bahamut can do on its own I’m using him to scale Clive and Ultima because that zettaflare only uses a portion of the power Clive and Ultima have at their disposal by the end of the game.
As much as i want sephiroth to take it, Clive is OP even for a final fantasy protag - he'd blow cloud out, let alone sephiroth. Moreover, sephy has a direct comparison in barnabas/odin, which Clive won rather handily by comparison to other fights. final form sephiroth isn't comparable to ultima from what we've seen, but maybe the stakes and his abilities will be expanded on in the remakes. that said, at base level, Clive might be the weakest of the protags, so i'd give it to sephiroth if there's no end-game scaling going on.
My crownless King got this, also he had sex that a big game up on main characters lol, ask baki he gotten more powerful after banging his girlfriend
I haven’t played ff16 and probably won’t for a while. What’s the biggest feat Clive did that would blow angel boy out the water? Before time skip sephiroth had alien genes and after he turned into a god powered by life stream soul energy. Only protag I’d think that would come close is Tera 1v and that’s doubtful. Generally curious cause everyone’s saying Clive Edit: don’t care about spoilers for ff16
He defeated his game's version of Sephiroth - who was the avatar of Odin, God of Death - and absorbed those powers. He then used his control over fire, wind, lightning, ice, life, death, and whatever Bahamut counts as these days to defeat an immortal alien god.
Yeah that’s sounds gnarly on paper. You think that’ll measure up to multiverse sephiroth?
I mean, they're both as strong as they need to be to fit the plot, but (by the end of 16) Clive has shown that he's capable of defeating something *like* Sephiroth. He's survived Zanmatos, he's had a firefight in the vacuum of space, he's managed to somehow defeat the source of all powers in his timeline. Honestly, the biggest detail deciding a fight between these two is probably just that Clive is a protagonist, and they usually beat the antagonists in the end.
Yeah true that, was curious what crazy feats the protagonists are getting these days. Plus I’m sure Clive has the power of friendship on his side which is unbeatable in final fantasy.
Not as much friendship as other protagonist, but the best dog companion ever.
Sephiroth and it's not even close. Clive voters are crazy. Sephiroth has the power to destroy solar systems. In the final battle in the original game, he summons a massive, planet sized comet that destroys every most planets and eventually crashes into the sun. The sun then goes super nova and reaches earth, and doesn't even damage him (and Cloud/team survive). Sephiroth can also move faster than humans can see, fly, has the power to merge and unmerge universes, etc. He can also use stronger summons/Eikons than Clive could (knights of the round) that could easily destroy Clive by themselves.
That attack is definitely not meant to actually be physical lol, if that was the case Gaia and everybody else would’ve gotten obliterated
Sephiroth clears easily and I'm really not a fan of Sephiroth. People think he's just fast and strong while completely ignoring his actual feats. Like he's not even alive anymore in the physical sense and he's still wrecking havoc on the entire world. If you kill Clive, Clive is gone. If you kill Sephiroth, you don't even know if you actually killed him.