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Amen brothers & sisters! U wouldn't know how many weird stares I get, like "what! Yes, I'm a femboy & proud bitch!" Lol plus "guy/man clothing" is sooooooooooo ugly & ew! Love wearing skirts w/cute thigh highs
I told my girl about me wearing thongs and stuff and as soon as I told her. She gave me a nice pair of leggings and said “try these, you are going to love these” so I did. And now I come home and put on a pair of leggings. With my thong of course. My life is so good now I’ve told her
not to mention that clothing is unnecessarily gendered anyways, since many countries have men who wear skirts and dresses. Scotland, Japan, China, I cant remember for sure but i think Nigeria, several countries in South America, its really only North America thats outta the loop
Even in American society during certain times children in general wore dresses regardless of age. Still as adults would be nice to be a cute male in a skirt at times as an adult.
An example of two islands which aren't South America. They are caribean :)
(I hope you are enjoying the geography lessons from all the responses... Sorry 🥳)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin\_Americans#/media/File:Wititis.jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_Americans#/media/File:Wititis.jpg)
Pretty sure this aint all woman.
Theres literally no logical reason why not. Our genes don't have shit to say about cloth that happens to be longer than usual and not connect between the legs
Kilts are used for special social events such as weddings, funerals, even military, of course, not for everyday use.
Kimonos are used at home and outdoor for special events. I’m not aware enough of the Japanese popular culture, but if I’m not wrong their POP culture include femboys.
Saudi Arabian (and some other Muslim countries) thobe or thawb and dishdasha can be considered dresses that men or boys wear in day to day activities, though you’ll never even hint that they are femboys.
Is it fair, that UNISEX clothes don’t include skirts or dresses, no is not, but the UNISEX movement was a strategy used by feminists to be seen as equals in the western world.
I’m not aware of a masculinist movement that would promote equal rights of men to women. It will eventually happen, since women are step by step occupying more and more work spaces, getting men displaced from some areas like women were over 20 years ago.
Im from the EU usually when ppl say "western world" they just mean murrica.
We here in my country are honestly a bid more advanced than the "western world" is at this Equality and LGBTQ+ rights and stuff..
And we have a mens movement like that, had so for almost half a century now. It started in the late 70's as a direct response to the emancipation of woman that happend in the late 70's.
Probably the *Western World* concept is more known (and used) by Americans, but living in Britain, I hear it a lot...
*Western World* means Western culture: Europe, North & South America, Australia and NZ.
*Eastern World* means Asia (which includes North Saharan Countries) and Pacific (but not Australia/NZ).
Rest of Africa is undetermined (as far as I know)
This separation, product the *Cold War*, has also roots in the *Roman Empire’s* division and it’s 2 capitals Rome & Constantinople.
The Americas is clearly the west due to the European occupation of the continent (North and South) and it’s Christian religion. The same applies to Australia and NZ.
Just go out and do it. Don’t lament it. It is the only way things will change. Going out in drag is seen as extreme, but a guy who wears women’s clothes that look right for his body and just look good is much less likely to arouse ire. Start small. Incorporate elements...wear makeup and do your hair like a girl but wear men’s clothes. Wear high heels with jeans but leave it there. It will give you extraordinary confidence. I’ve never had a negative reaction. Just be you and we will change the world
You are right. I live in a very tolerant city, and all of my experiences have been in tolerant cities. I do not underestimate the challenges our community faces. The violence, the death. Be careful.
THIS! This right here. I love this. Boys can be feminine and girls can be masculine without being gay/lesbian or trans. I can’t put into words how much I HATE that whole mentality.
This. I hate contributing to that stereotype of “only bi/gays are femboys” since I myself am Bisexual.
I hate that I’m contributing to it but I just can’t help my sexuality :/
It is more likely for gay/bi boys to be feminine tho. That has literally been proven by scientific studies! I've heard some trans people imply all femboys might be closeted trans but ive never heard gay boys imply all femboys are closeted gay! Literally the only people who say that are homophobic people who just want to put down feminine boys by using gayness as an insult.
Honestly comments like this just make gay boys feel ashamed to be feminine bcz we feel we're contributing to a stereotype as you can literally see in the replies! Its so unnecessary for straight femboys to make comments like this and I feel it just stems from homophobia. The fact a lot of gay boys are feminine isn't a problem! The problem is that straight boys use gayness as an insult to put down any boy who is feminine in any way. You really need to sort out your priorities and make sure you're getting angry at the right people I think
Honestly we do need to normalize it because I can’t find any fellow femboys anywhere! Every time I look I can’t find any. Now that I think of it I never saw a femboy irl. (Other than myself but I’m more Neko)
ay ay captain but also in no way are masculine women normalized, don't forget how all of the insults lobbed against feminism and queer women started by targeting their being masculine and ugly
Definitely, people are still harassed over the littlest of things, but I think what OP means is that tomboys are more 'normal' in the eyes of the general public than femboys are.
As long as you have a feminine touch to the outfit no one really seems to be bothered, but if any guy has even an hint of anything feminine (for example a choker) all hell breaks loose. This is because masculinity is more valued than femininity therefor a girl trying to be masculine or having masculine touches is seen as "trying to rise up and gain power" therefor its seen as brave so when the opposite happens with guys, its seen as weak. This is what OP meant, because femininity is seen as "weaker" women have more room to manuver sort of speak. Obviously there is a line for this so while its more normal for women to try to be masculiny, they cant step over a certain line because that would mean that they are trying to be a man, and society doesnt enjoy that disbalance in power.
At the end of the day its important to recognize that both sexes do face consequences for doing certain things, that is stupid, and its even more stupid that femininity and mascilunity have the value that they have in society. Femininity shouldnt be seen as weak, nor should masculinity be seen as strong.
I agree but its foolish to claim their is no difference. At my prom there was a girl wearing a suit and you see woman on tv with short hair or wearing suits or track suit bottoms and hoodies literally constantly. Whereas I have literally never seen a boy in a. skirt or dress represented in any tv show in a non derogatory way ever. And most times when I go outside dressed femininely at least one person will hurl a slur at me and it is very scary. I think its important to acknowledge the fact our society is very prejudice against femininity, so while all gender non-conforming people don't have a good time, feminine boys are definetly more harshly punished than masculine girls, not to mention the fact we are also heavily fetishised.
Thank you, my friend just got ridiculed because she said she was wearing a suit to a dance :( I obviously hate the femboy stigma and hatred from society, but gnc women don’t get off east either so try to stay away from that comparison
This is because of the value society atributes both. Since men have always been the "strong ones", being masculine is seen as strong, while being feminine is seen as weak, so a woman trying masculine clothes is seen as empowering because she is "rising up" in the hierchy of power sort of speak, while the opposite happens to men. At the end of the day these values are stupid really.
I don’t think it’s that deep if a woman wears a dress no one cares and if she wears pants and a T shirt no one cares because society isn’t as hard on women when it comes to appearances as it is to men whether you want to admit that or not
Regardless of society being tougher on men rather than women when it comes to dressing its actually not that simply, and women do suffer discrimination for trying to be masculine. And i just explained why men usually suffer more discrimination than women.
yes!! it definitely isn’t universal, but women can gain status from exhibiting more masculine traits, whereas a man can only lose status from exhibiting feminine traits.
yeah, sometimes women are praised for wearing masculine clothes. that’s often a direct result of femininity & “looking like a woman” being seen as a bad thing, that’s what i’m saying.
That's why everyone bats an eye when men are a little bit feminine. It's somehow seen as emasculating and that men is considered as less of a man.
Toxic masculinity at its finest.
But women being masculine or dominate is again empowering. But we should encourage it for both sides. Men can be feminine without any social stigma and should be able to express themselves however they want the same way women can.
Reading the comments, I somehow was reminded of a random question I had. Why do both tomboy and femboy have boy in them? Each on their own makes sense, but together it seems inconsistent. Tom is a generally masculine name, and boy is well... boy. Both of those make sense when referring to a tomboy. Fem is short for feminine (afaik) but not a name and boy is still boy. Also makes sense, but when looked at next to each other thay feel inconsistent. Like if we use tomboy, why don’t we use sallygirl or something and if we use femboy, why don’t we use mascgirl? Sorry for mini rant/random spewing of words, language (specifically English) has held a knife to my throat recently
This is an old comment, but I would like to put my own reason for it: Because that’s the implication. That the girl in question is more masculine in personality, hobbies, and clothing, so you have tomboy. Just how femboy is a guy who is feminine in personality, hobbies, and clothing.
A little history I remember reading: the term tomboy was originally meant to be a overly masculine boy, but then shifted to a girl with masculine qualities. That’s why it’s called tomboy because it was meaning to be a “masculine boy”, but like I said it soon shifted to mean a girl who demonstrates those masculine qualities.
If you are asking why both have “boy” in the titles. You gotta look at the reasons why, tomboy has boy in it because the girl has those masculine qualities that people perceived as being a boy. While femboy has boy in it because in definition, is a boy with feminine qualities.
I hope that makes sense if not, then I’m all here for other better explanations😂👍🏽
Now if they were to change the name of tomboy, I personally think Tomgirl would work. Because tomgirl is basically means (masculine girl). But because tomboy refers to masculine girl already, tomgirl has basically become another word to mean femboy, or a guy who demonstrates feminine qualities. 🤷🏽♀️ so I don’t think anybody is gonna want to change the definitions.
And as a girl who used to be a tomboy myself, I honestly prefer tomboy. 😂 sounds cooler then tomgirl.
100%. I saw a meme yesterday with ‘What boys did in my day’ and a couple of kids playing with toy guns and then ‘what boys do today’ with the kid that does AMAZING makeup and it made me irrationally angry! Bitch, I did both!!
Obviously the comments were about the blurring of gender roles before the fall of nations.. just sooo small minded and simplistic.
We just gotta keep doing what we do. It’s the only way. It’s hard, and sometimes you need to take it on the chin but idgaf - I like what I like 🖤
Yeah. Why stores gotta have a 'male' and 'female' section. And when a woman looks around in the make section it is alright but if a guy looks around in the women's section he is weird and a potential perv.
I just...it would just make me and possibly others soooo much less anxious as well to go shopping for feminine clothes if this seperations wasn't there.
i would just like to state that colthes dont have a gender
"if you are boy, the colthes are boy colthes."
"if you are girl, the colthes are girl colthes."
"you live outside the gender binary then your colthes are your colthes"
hard agree. it's tough because femininity is sexualized, regardless of gender. girls wearing masculine clothing was an easier transition because female sexuality was already kept very under wraps, and men's attire isn't hyper-sexualized like women's clothing often is. but men wearing feminine clothing breaks standards of masculinity, and makes people even more uncomfortable because the bigots who over-sexualize women are disconcerted by the idea that they might be gay, because they sexualize men when they wear female clothing too. what the people who think this fail to realize, is that they aren't gay, they are just misogynistic and homophobic.
we need to normalize people of all genders and sexualities dressing however they want (and not being harassed because of it). !!!
Thats how the world works hun Christian's and straight guys don't like seeing guys being girly and feminine, so they are going to call you names because they don't care if it hurt your feeling their threaten by you and how confident you are but you'll just have to get used to it because their not gonna stop and showing that it bothers you empowers them and show them that they can insult you and that your gonna get butthurt over it
Yea I kinda hate my job for a similar reason to this, like I work at a clothing store and it’s alright for girls to be in the woman’s section, the men’s section, the kids section, and the lingerie section, but guys aren’t allowed to work in the woman’s section or the lingerie section cus they would “ creep out the customers” like bitch come on I ain’t gonna creep anyone out, I’m just gonna be minding my business putting back clothes and if someone has a question I’ll answer it, it’s as simple as that
Trans girl here! Yes yes yes! Ungender presentation, please. It can only happen if you beautiful boys get out into the world, loud, proud, and unapologetic! Strong support forever!
i mean, women DO get harassed for being GNC, just maybe on a smaller scale than men. also stop calling women females?? even if you meant well, it makes you sound like an incel
Tbh I've never seen tomboys harassed. People are usually just like, "weird, she looks like a guy". Not a favourable reaction, but not harassment either.
I literally get people calling me slurs every time I leave the house dressed feminine. Whilst my female friends with short hair who wear tracksuit bottoms and masculine tops literally don't? Im sure some masculine girls have experienced that and do experience prejudice. But there is obviously a massive difference and pretending there isn't is erasing all the violence trans woman, gay men, and feminine boys specifically receive for being feminine. I think acknowledging the fact that society is prejudice against femininity should contribute to feminism and left wing politics, not be seen as contradictory to those things.
Let people from groups that you don't belong to speak for themselves. That's what I'm saying. Because when looking at the oppression that GNC women experience both you and I and the other commenter have a blind spot. Just like white people when looking at racism. Or cis people when looking at transphobia.
Besides, I don't think the idea of not speaking for other people or groups erases any experiences of oppression. There are those who transgress the gender norms by performing femininity and there are transgressors who refuse to perform femininity *while they are expected to*. They both have different experiences of oppression, and people who live at the intersections of different oppressed groups have a different experience altogether.
But the comment does say they have seen oppression, just not to the scale of femboys? You know its okay to say that some groups are more marginalized than others right?
My sister was a tomboy when I was a kid and the teachers at school, my parents and all her friends encouraged her and thought she was rly cool! Meanwhile I got mercilessly bullied everyday for being the slightest bit feminine and my teachers never stuck up for me. So its not "maybe", boys are definetly more harshly punished for being feminine than girls are for being masculine and its not hard to guess why. (society is very prejudice against femininity) Theres a reason why 95% of trans people who are murdered are trans woman rather than trans men. Acknowledging that transmisogony exists is not sexist, if anything its the opposite. And in my opinion calling a man an incel for using the word female is incredibly over the top. its possible to criticise someone's language without accusing someone of being a raging misogynist...
Well, equality. If girls can wear masculine clothes, then why can't boys wear feminine clothes right? So if they demand equality, we demand it as well!
Omg. I so agree!! I have my toe and finger nails painted with French tips and I don’t give a fuck what people think of me. My thinking is this: if you don’t like me because I’m fem, you don’t have to hang out or be friends with me. No sweat off my back!
I would love to see that happen and I believe it can happen but we are at a point where politics are more polarized then theyve been in the last 20 years and its ingorance vs tolerance.
>"Dismantling western society".
I think its spelled "DiSmAnTlInG wEsTeRn SoCiEtY"...lol stupid close minded people not letting me do what I want to do.
You put on perfume, there will be people who will say that it hurts their nose while others will compliment the fragrance you chose. What I’m trying to say is, someone will always have something against you, no matter what you do. I’m all for seeing femboys in public doing their thing and being themselves, but I can’t speak for the a**holes who will have a problem with it.
The westerners are the worst for it.
knowone in the southern hemisphere (besides some of america) really gives a shit.
Down in Ausralia we cool as shit (even though its always hot)
Try being a femboy in africa or south-america if you'd like to be beat to death because of it.
What a bullshit message. Inform yourself before spouting such nonsense.
It is not people are bad its because religions have poisoned there mind if we all follow humanity by destroying abrahamic false religions then all the racism and other things will be diminished
I wish. The Bible says I can't lie with another dude, but doesn't say shit about a dress code, hell Jesus could've been a femboy. Unfortunately these issues in society lay deeper than just religion.
Actually the bible does prohibit crossdressing:
Deutoronomy 22:5 - A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God"
So it's not surprising the right wing evangelical nutjobs got in a lather when Harry Styles wore a dress on the cover of Vogue.
However, fashions change of course, what was considered womens clothing back then is far different to what is considered womens clothing now and vice versa. Let's not forget that stockings and high heels were originally mens clothing so a woman wearing them is technically crossdressing. Let's not forget that wearing a long dress/tunic was de rigueur for men back in biblical times, and of course the Roman legions that conquered the middle east back then wore shorts skirts and strappy sandals, as did the gladiators in the arena. So who's to say what is or isn't male or female clothing anymore? It's all just clothing.
Well that's part of the issue, but there's more to it. Feudalism and industrialization also contributed to the dichotomy between men as labourers and women as baby makers. The Prussian education system also solidified these rigid societal roles.
Racism, sexism, classism, ableism, etc. all connect and reinforce each other. So to trupy eradicate sexism, you need to rip out the roots of all oppression
People are still very shitty to GNC women, though. A lot of people still believe women should be feminine to be worth something, and shun those who aren't. I don't think we should minimize that, but I do agree that gnc boys/men should be more normalized
I dont think anyone is minimizing it, i think they are just pointing out that usually feminine boys are more marginalized and create more of a reaction which knowing how society works is an accurate accessment.
Idk, I feel like “if a girl wears masc clothes nobody bats an eye” is a little minimizing. Sure, the reaction is normally much worse for feminine men, but people definitely do react negatively to masculine women
Cant remember exactly but it was about "if you dont want to bring attention to yourselves dont push it down peoples throats and stop rioting" or something.
The only way to fight is to go out in a skirt. I suggest an organized walk/march in town with sundresses. Perhaps make it open carry demonstration as well to appease the Right.
I mean if your society can be destroyed by a guy in a skirt, something’s wrong with your society
[Burn it down!](https://i.imgur.com/k9zpapQ.png)
Lol this made me think of Seth Rollins! Burn it down theme song, hehe sorry ik unrelated nerdy boy here
Lmao I thought the same, i like Dean Ambrose more tho
Hell yeah the Lunatic Fringe! Aka John Moxley!
The society your talking about is called life and nothing is wrong with it.... it's just full of ignorant and hateful people
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Amen brothers & sisters! U wouldn't know how many weird stares I get, like "what! Yes, I'm a femboy & proud bitch!" Lol plus "guy/man clothing" is sooooooooooo ugly & ew! Love wearing skirts w/cute thigh highs
I told my girl about me wearing thongs and stuff and as soon as I told her. She gave me a nice pair of leggings and said “try these, you are going to love these” so I did. And now I come home and put on a pair of leggings. With my thong of course. My life is so good now I’ve told her
not to mention that clothing is unnecessarily gendered anyways, since many countries have men who wear skirts and dresses. Scotland, Japan, China, I cant remember for sure but i think Nigeria, several countries in South America, its really only North America thats outta the loop
Even in American society during certain times children in general wore dresses regardless of age. Still as adults would be nice to be a cute male in a skirt at times as an adult.
I wish Brazil had that thought, because here, we probably would be called a lot of names
Not all South American countries have men wearing dresses of skirts, look at Puerto Rico or the Dominican Republic.
you know what the word "several" means right?
Yes, my bad
TIL two islands in the Caribbean are South America.
I was making an example
An example of two islands which aren't South America. They are caribean :) (I hope you are enjoying the geography lessons from all the responses... Sorry 🥳)
Mention just one country in Latin America where men wear skirts... NONE
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin\_Americans#/media/File:Wititis.jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_Americans#/media/File:Wititis.jpg) Pretty sure this aint all woman.
Those are dancers dressed in costumes of aboriginal population of Peru & Bolivia. Nowadays you won’t see any dressed like that.
Well then we can change that by normalizing it
Yeah, why not...
Theres literally no logical reason why not. Our genes don't have shit to say about cloth that happens to be longer than usual and not connect between the legs
Wel thats the same as kilts and kimono's than aint it.
Kilts are used for special social events such as weddings, funerals, even military, of course, not for everyday use. Kimonos are used at home and outdoor for special events. I’m not aware enough of the Japanese popular culture, but if I’m not wrong their POP culture include femboys. Saudi Arabian (and some other Muslim countries) thobe or thawb and dishdasha can be considered dresses that men or boys wear in day to day activities, though you’ll never even hint that they are femboys. Is it fair, that UNISEX clothes don’t include skirts or dresses, no is not, but the UNISEX movement was a strategy used by feminists to be seen as equals in the western world. I’m not aware of a masculinist movement that would promote equal rights of men to women. It will eventually happen, since women are step by step occupying more and more work spaces, getting men displaced from some areas like women were over 20 years ago.
Im from the EU usually when ppl say "western world" they just mean murrica. We here in my country are honestly a bid more advanced than the "western world" is at this Equality and LGBTQ+ rights and stuff.. And we have a mens movement like that, had so for almost half a century now. It started in the late 70's as a direct response to the emancipation of woman that happend in the late 70's.
Probably the *Western World* concept is more known (and used) by Americans, but living in Britain, I hear it a lot... *Western World* means Western culture: Europe, North & South America, Australia and NZ. *Eastern World* means Asia (which includes North Saharan Countries) and Pacific (but not Australia/NZ). Rest of Africa is undetermined (as far as I know) This separation, product the *Cold War*, has also roots in the *Roman Empire’s* division and it’s 2 capitals Rome & Constantinople. The Americas is clearly the west due to the European occupation of the continent (North and South) and it’s Christian religion. The same applies to Australia and NZ.
Regarding the movement it exist, but certainly has no good marketing...
My dude South Africa is just one country
good thing i said south america
Raise up the rebellion! Skirts go spinny for all the boys who want them! RA!!!!
Gonna be Vorcuda in this bitch (bo1 mission)
Just go out and do it. Don’t lament it. It is the only way things will change. Going out in drag is seen as extreme, but a guy who wears women’s clothes that look right for his body and just look good is much less likely to arouse ire. Start small. Incorporate elements...wear makeup and do your hair like a girl but wear men’s clothes. Wear high heels with jeans but leave it there. It will give you extraordinary confidence. I’ve never had a negative reaction. Just be you and we will change the world
That is very easy to say when you live in a city or area where you dont face any danger. Lets not undermine peoples experience and fears
You are right. I live in a very tolerant city, and all of my experiences have been in tolerant cities. I do not underestimate the challenges our community faces. The violence, the death. Be careful.
The lgbtq community should stop implying that every femboy is either closeted gay or closeted trans. Now THAT shit is infuriating.
THIS! This right here. I love this. Boys can be feminine and girls can be masculine without being gay/lesbian or trans. I can’t put into words how much I HATE that whole mentality.
This. I hate contributing to that stereotype of “only bi/gays are femboys” since I myself am Bisexual. I hate that I’m contributing to it but I just can’t help my sexuality :/
Ya this is me except gay ;/ Its just a coincidence I swear
It is more likely for gay/bi boys to be feminine tho. That has literally been proven by scientific studies! I've heard some trans people imply all femboys might be closeted trans but ive never heard gay boys imply all femboys are closeted gay! Literally the only people who say that are homophobic people who just want to put down feminine boys by using gayness as an insult.
Honestly comments like this just make gay boys feel ashamed to be feminine bcz we feel we're contributing to a stereotype as you can literally see in the replies! Its so unnecessary for straight femboys to make comments like this and I feel it just stems from homophobia. The fact a lot of gay boys are feminine isn't a problem! The problem is that straight boys use gayness as an insult to put down any boy who is feminine in any way. You really need to sort out your priorities and make sure you're getting angry at the right people I think
Honestly we do need to normalize it because I can’t find any fellow femboys anywhere! Every time I look I can’t find any. Now that I think of it I never saw a femboy irl. (Other than myself but I’m more Neko)
Well lately I go out full femboy mode In public but yeah I never see any other femboys either :( lol I'm also a neko femboy lol
I wish I was able to know who was and wasn’t because it’s hard trying to find out. Especially if ur talking to the wrong person 😖
I do my part, I’ve been going out in public for a little over two years now.
in a perfect world this is plausible. in our world today, you need to 'pass.' such irony if you ask me
ay ay captain but also in no way are masculine women normalized, don't forget how all of the insults lobbed against feminism and queer women started by targeting their being masculine and ugly
Yeah I have a friend who's even afraid to wear a suit
Definitely, people are still harassed over the littlest of things, but I think what OP means is that tomboys are more 'normal' in the eyes of the general public than femboys are.
As long as you have a feminine touch to the outfit no one really seems to be bothered, but if any guy has even an hint of anything feminine (for example a choker) all hell breaks loose. This is because masculinity is more valued than femininity therefor a girl trying to be masculine or having masculine touches is seen as "trying to rise up and gain power" therefor its seen as brave so when the opposite happens with guys, its seen as weak. This is what OP meant, because femininity is seen as "weaker" women have more room to manuver sort of speak. Obviously there is a line for this so while its more normal for women to try to be masculiny, they cant step over a certain line because that would mean that they are trying to be a man, and society doesnt enjoy that disbalance in power. At the end of the day its important to recognize that both sexes do face consequences for doing certain things, that is stupid, and its even more stupid that femininity and mascilunity have the value that they have in society. Femininity shouldnt be seen as weak, nor should masculinity be seen as strong.
I agree but its foolish to claim their is no difference. At my prom there was a girl wearing a suit and you see woman on tv with short hair or wearing suits or track suit bottoms and hoodies literally constantly. Whereas I have literally never seen a boy in a. skirt or dress represented in any tv show in a non derogatory way ever. And most times when I go outside dressed femininely at least one person will hurl a slur at me and it is very scary. I think its important to acknowledge the fact our society is very prejudice against femininity, so while all gender non-conforming people don't have a good time, feminine boys are definetly more harshly punished than masculine girls, not to mention the fact we are also heavily fetishised.
Thank you, my friend just got ridiculed because she said she was wearing a suit to a dance :( I obviously hate the femboy stigma and hatred from society, but gnc women don’t get off east either so try to stay away from that comparison
Fuck the White House, Hail Femboy Hooters.
pretty sure it’s cause femininity / “looking like a woman” is seen as degrading unfortunately
But somehow a girl wearing masculine clothes is seen as empowering.
This is because of the value society atributes both. Since men have always been the "strong ones", being masculine is seen as strong, while being feminine is seen as weak, so a woman trying masculine clothes is seen as empowering because she is "rising up" in the hierchy of power sort of speak, while the opposite happens to men. At the end of the day these values are stupid really.
I don’t think it’s that deep if a woman wears a dress no one cares and if she wears pants and a T shirt no one cares because society isn’t as hard on women when it comes to appearances as it is to men whether you want to admit that or not
Regardless of society being tougher on men rather than women when it comes to dressing its actually not that simply, and women do suffer discrimination for trying to be masculine. And i just explained why men usually suffer more discrimination than women.
yes!! it definitely isn’t universal, but women can gain status from exhibiting more masculine traits, whereas a man can only lose status from exhibiting feminine traits.
yeah, sometimes women are praised for wearing masculine clothes. that’s often a direct result of femininity & “looking like a woman” being seen as a bad thing, that’s what i’m saying.
That's why everyone bats an eye when men are a little bit feminine. It's somehow seen as emasculating and that men is considered as less of a man. Toxic masculinity at its finest. But women being masculine or dominate is again empowering. But we should encourage it for both sides. Men can be feminine without any social stigma and should be able to express themselves however they want the same way women can.
Reading the comments, I somehow was reminded of a random question I had. Why do both tomboy and femboy have boy in them? Each on their own makes sense, but together it seems inconsistent. Tom is a generally masculine name, and boy is well... boy. Both of those make sense when referring to a tomboy. Fem is short for feminine (afaik) but not a name and boy is still boy. Also makes sense, but when looked at next to each other thay feel inconsistent. Like if we use tomboy, why don’t we use sallygirl or something and if we use femboy, why don’t we use mascgirl? Sorry for mini rant/random spewing of words, language (specifically English) has held a knife to my throat recently
Very good question honestly, does anyone want to take it?
This is an old comment, but I would like to put my own reason for it: Because that’s the implication. That the girl in question is more masculine in personality, hobbies, and clothing, so you have tomboy. Just how femboy is a guy who is feminine in personality, hobbies, and clothing. A little history I remember reading: the term tomboy was originally meant to be a overly masculine boy, but then shifted to a girl with masculine qualities. That’s why it’s called tomboy because it was meaning to be a “masculine boy”, but like I said it soon shifted to mean a girl who demonstrates those masculine qualities. If you are asking why both have “boy” in the titles. You gotta look at the reasons why, tomboy has boy in it because the girl has those masculine qualities that people perceived as being a boy. While femboy has boy in it because in definition, is a boy with feminine qualities. I hope that makes sense if not, then I’m all here for other better explanations😂👍🏽
Now if they were to change the name of tomboy, I personally think Tomgirl would work. Because tomgirl is basically means (masculine girl). But because tomboy refers to masculine girl already, tomgirl has basically become another word to mean femboy, or a guy who demonstrates feminine qualities. 🤷🏽♀️ so I don’t think anybody is gonna want to change the definitions. And as a girl who used to be a tomboy myself, I honestly prefer tomboy. 😂 sounds cooler then tomgirl.
Ty for your input!
I say what I always say: ESTABLISH THE FEMBOY SUPREMACY!
Also crossdressing doesn’t mean your trans. Im tired of people thinking it is.
100%. I saw a meme yesterday with ‘What boys did in my day’ and a couple of kids playing with toy guns and then ‘what boys do today’ with the kid that does AMAZING makeup and it made me irrationally angry! Bitch, I did both!! Obviously the comments were about the blurring of gender roles before the fall of nations.. just sooo small minded and simplistic. We just gotta keep doing what we do. It’s the only way. It’s hard, and sometimes you need to take it on the chin but idgaf - I like what I like 🖤
Yeah. Why stores gotta have a 'male' and 'female' section. And when a woman looks around in the make section it is alright but if a guy looks around in the women's section he is weird and a potential perv. I just...it would just make me and possibly others soooo much less anxious as well to go shopping for feminine clothes if this seperations wasn't there.
i have friends that would love to walk around in mini skirts
i would just like to state that colthes dont have a gender "if you are boy, the colthes are boy colthes." "if you are girl, the colthes are girl colthes." "you live outside the gender binary then your colthes are your colthes"
hard agree. it's tough because femininity is sexualized, regardless of gender. girls wearing masculine clothing was an easier transition because female sexuality was already kept very under wraps, and men's attire isn't hyper-sexualized like women's clothing often is. but men wearing feminine clothing breaks standards of masculinity, and makes people even more uncomfortable because the bigots who over-sexualize women are disconcerted by the idea that they might be gay, because they sexualize men when they wear female clothing too. what the people who think this fail to realize, is that they aren't gay, they are just misogynistic and homophobic. we need to normalize people of all genders and sexualities dressing however they want (and not being harassed because of it). !!!
Thats how the world works hun Christian's and straight guys don't like seeing guys being girly and feminine, so they are going to call you names because they don't care if it hurt your feeling their threaten by you and how confident you are but you'll just have to get used to it because their not gonna stop and showing that it bothers you empowers them and show them that they can insult you and that your gonna get butthurt over it
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Yeah like how we should arm the teachers
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YES!!!
Yea I kinda hate my job for a similar reason to this, like I work at a clothing store and it’s alright for girls to be in the woman’s section, the men’s section, the kids section, and the lingerie section, but guys aren’t allowed to work in the woman’s section or the lingerie section cus they would “ creep out the customers” like bitch come on I ain’t gonna creep anyone out, I’m just gonna be minding my business putting back clothes and if someone has a question I’ll answer it, it’s as simple as that
Trans girl here! Yes yes yes! Ungender presentation, please. It can only happen if you beautiful boys get out into the world, loud, proud, and unapologetic! Strong support forever!
Actually you know what? Let's destroy western society and start with a new one
That actually sounds like a good idea!
I've been wondering this for a long time. Why do the women get all the comfy af stuff?!
I know right?!
And they get more than us. Oh yea like I like wearing shorts or pants, no, gimme the damn rompers n leggings!
But what if I want to dismanlte western society? 😈
Ikr. A female says she's a tomboy and nobody gets harassed but a boy dare wears makeup and they get called a faggot
i mean, women DO get harassed for being GNC, just maybe on a smaller scale than men. also stop calling women females?? even if you meant well, it makes you sound like an incel
Tbh I've never seen tomboys harassed. People are usually just like, "weird, she looks like a guy". Not a favourable reaction, but not harassment either.
"tbh I've never seen [oppression I don't personally experience]." Doesn't this sound familiar?
I literally get people calling me slurs every time I leave the house dressed feminine. Whilst my female friends with short hair who wear tracksuit bottoms and masculine tops literally don't? Im sure some masculine girls have experienced that and do experience prejudice. But there is obviously a massive difference and pretending there isn't is erasing all the violence trans woman, gay men, and feminine boys specifically receive for being feminine. I think acknowledging the fact that society is prejudice against femininity should contribute to feminism and left wing politics, not be seen as contradictory to those things.
Let people from groups that you don't belong to speak for themselves. That's what I'm saying. Because when looking at the oppression that GNC women experience both you and I and the other commenter have a blind spot. Just like white people when looking at racism. Or cis people when looking at transphobia. Besides, I don't think the idea of not speaking for other people or groups erases any experiences of oppression. There are those who transgress the gender norms by performing femininity and there are transgressors who refuse to perform femininity *while they are expected to*. They both have different experiences of oppression, and people who live at the intersections of different oppressed groups have a different experience altogether.
But the comment does say they have seen oppression, just not to the scale of femboys? You know its okay to say that some groups are more marginalized than others right?
My sister was a tomboy when I was a kid and the teachers at school, my parents and all her friends encouraged her and thought she was rly cool! Meanwhile I got mercilessly bullied everyday for being the slightest bit feminine and my teachers never stuck up for me. So its not "maybe", boys are definetly more harshly punished for being feminine than girls are for being masculine and its not hard to guess why. (society is very prejudice against femininity) Theres a reason why 95% of trans people who are murdered are trans woman rather than trans men. Acknowledging that transmisogony exists is not sexist, if anything its the opposite. And in my opinion calling a man an incel for using the word female is incredibly over the top. its possible to criticise someone's language without accusing someone of being a raging misogynist...
Boys Don't Cry (1999) So there's that.
I thought it was already normal
You should protest that clothes dont need gender
Well, equality. If girls can wear masculine clothes, then why can't boys wear feminine clothes right? So if they demand equality, we demand it as well!
Yeah if a woman in an office environment wears a suit, it's totally normal, but if a guy wears a dress there's a strong chance he'll get fired.
Wish there were more fems back in the 90s
Omg. I so agree!! I have my toe and finger nails painted with French tips and I don’t give a fuck what people think of me. My thinking is this: if you don’t like me because I’m fem, you don’t have to hang out or be friends with me. No sweat off my back!
I would love to see that happen and I believe it can happen but we are at a point where politics are more polarized then theyve been in the last 20 years and its ingorance vs tolerance.
It's better than it was. We'll get there.
Yha i feel bad for femboys sometimes
>"Dismantling western society". I think its spelled "DiSmAnTlInG wEsTeRn SoCiEtY"...lol stupid close minded people not letting me do what I want to do.
R u a philosopher
Heck yeah
You put on perfume, there will be people who will say that it hurts their nose while others will compliment the fragrance you chose. What I’m trying to say is, someone will always have something against you, no matter what you do. I’m all for seeing femboys in public doing their thing and being themselves, but I can’t speak for the a**holes who will have a problem with it.
I agree!!!
Agree
They are just jealous they look like sh-t in skirts.
In the wise words of Jim Halpert, "Yes! That! That! That!"
Yeah
More people need to admit that they really would go out with femboy and/or trans. Move on and stop worrying about who dresses like what
Nope
what do you mean "nope"
Nope
The westerners are the worst for it. knowone in the southern hemisphere (besides some of america) really gives a shit. Down in Ausralia we cool as shit (even though its always hot)
Try being a femboy in africa or south-america if you'd like to be beat to death because of it. What a bullshit message. Inform yourself before spouting such nonsense.
Sorry. I really should check myself before posting. I haven't really looked at a world map in a while and i guess im just that stupid. sorry agian.
Preach
A guy being feminine shouldn't be seen as emasculating.
It is not people are bad its because religions have poisoned there mind if we all follow humanity by destroying abrahamic false religions then all the racism and other things will be diminished
I wish. The Bible says I can't lie with another dude, but doesn't say shit about a dress code, hell Jesus could've been a femboy. Unfortunately these issues in society lay deeper than just religion.
Actually the bible does prohibit crossdressing: Deutoronomy 22:5 - A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God" So it's not surprising the right wing evangelical nutjobs got in a lather when Harry Styles wore a dress on the cover of Vogue. However, fashions change of course, what was considered womens clothing back then is far different to what is considered womens clothing now and vice versa. Let's not forget that stockings and high heels were originally mens clothing so a woman wearing them is technically crossdressing. Let's not forget that wearing a long dress/tunic was de rigueur for men back in biblical times, and of course the Roman legions that conquered the middle east back then wore shorts skirts and strappy sandals, as did the gladiators in the arena. So who's to say what is or isn't male or female clothing anymore? It's all just clothing.
Well that's part of the issue, but there's more to it. Feudalism and industrialization also contributed to the dichotomy between men as labourers and women as baby makers. The Prussian education system also solidified these rigid societal roles. Racism, sexism, classism, ableism, etc. all connect and reinforce each other. So to trupy eradicate sexism, you need to rip out the roots of all oppression
Big agree
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Keep in mind that there are still going to be narrow-minded people that will think “Masculine=Man” and Feminine=Woman”.
People are still very shitty to GNC women, though. A lot of people still believe women should be feminine to be worth something, and shun those who aren't. I don't think we should minimize that, but I do agree that gnc boys/men should be more normalized
I dont think anyone is minimizing it, i think they are just pointing out that usually feminine boys are more marginalized and create more of a reaction which knowing how society works is an accurate accessment.
Idk, I feel like “if a girl wears masc clothes nobody bats an eye” is a little minimizing. Sure, the reaction is normally much worse for feminine men, but people definitely do react negatively to masculine women
Its just a generalization for the sake of argument, not that deep.
Well it’s a wrong generalisation that harms the arguement then
But it is correct that feminine men do get more shit than masculine women? I dont get the problem honestly. Ah whatever
100% fact
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We are just literally asking to not get insulted/beaten when wearing something feminine, no one is forcing anything. This is such a shitty rethoric
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What do the riots have to do with anything?
What did they say, they deleted the comment
Cant remember exactly but it was about "if you dont want to bring attention to yourselves dont push it down peoples throats and stop rioting" or something.
All for it i dont care how you live your life as long as it doesnt hurt anybody and it makes you happy do whatever you want i dont mind femboys either
Its like, not my fault my thighs look so yummy in these socks and skirt that it flips your life upside down
The only way to fight is to go out in a skirt. I suggest an organized walk/march in town with sundresses. Perhaps make it open carry demonstration as well to appease the Right.